Guild Wars 2

Tao.5096:

If Burn was op as you say, then I’m sure Anet would nerf it.

Just like they did nerf Dhuumfire in past.

You forget ANet balance takes 6 month per patch and they are busy with HoT, and even when they do balance they mess things up to be worse than before patch.

Starfall.6425:

RaGe.9834:

Being a player with ~2600 matches under my belt, and whom plays all of the classes and various builds on each class… I’m gonna go ahead and say holy flying kitten is burnguard OP even when fighting as a medi-guard with every condi-cleanse under the sun on ur bar, you have a hard time dealing with burn guards even 1 v 1

p.s. I’m not a bad medi-guard either(we basically lucked out in that match, if they had 1 more condi-focus char it woulda been gg-no-re)

You dealt 622k dmg and already 35k Condi-damage as a Mediguard. On the other hand you only recieved 110k condi damage.. that is less than 3x the condi dmg you did and not even 1/5 of the whole damage you did.

So I don’t see what in your screen makes burn-guard look op? That he got 20 more points? That’s pointless.. ba-dum-tss ^^

Could be that he did all that to you know the other 4 people and took the 110k from one guy whenever he showed up.

Don’t use the site but it happened to me a few days ago, left the finished won match and it sent me back into the match instead of the mists, looked at my win/loss rate and it definitely counted it at as a loss.

Glacial.9516:

This might be a silly suggestion, but what if Daredevil gave Vigor on dodge?

This would help to bring the 5% endurance regen in line with the extra bar. The downsides being that it doesn’t stack with vigor to restore energy even quicker and that it can be stripped/corrupted/stolen.

Afaik Vigor for 10s would give you the appropriate energy regen (75 over 10s) but that seems like it might be way too long? 3-5s maybe? Is that not enough? Is ‘forced’ Vigor on dodge a potentially bad thing, allowing foes to strip/corrupt/steal it right after a dodge?

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Feline_Grace
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Endless_Stamina

Saiyan.1704:

Not sure why Mesmers were even brought up in this conversation… Mesmer is a 1v1 class by default. Power and Condi builds are both OP on this class in a 1v1 situation. Power is 3x more effective in TPvP than Condi is… on this class.

What separates Mesmers from other Condition built classes is that Condi Mesmers do significantly worse in team vs team skirmish scenarios because of how lacking their AoE conditions are. What’s sad is, even Condi Trap Rangers have more AoE condi applications than Mesmers. Condi Mesmer is basically the prepatch version of Condi Guardian.

Mesmers were brought up because he specifically said his zerker Warrior vs Mesmers.

Archon.6480:

Did you ever consider the meta battle build you are using is abysmally weak to conditions?

OP: Condition builds have 2 stats already… damage and duration.

Oh thanks for telling me, let me just look through the list of amulets with condition duration….Oh it only comes from runes, sigils, food and Giver’s weapons, but only the first half is in PvP and the 2nd half gives more than the first half.

Photinous.4628:

4 balance patches a year. So, wait 3 months and maybe the condi damage will be nerfed just like D/D ele was…

You must be new, for the first 2 years it was pretty much one balance patch every 6 months and it took the balance the opposite way it should have gone every single time, any other patch change that wasn’t living world was tool tip fixes and fixing the same bug they listed as a fix a month ago for the 3rd time. Didn’t play for a year so I have no idea what happened this year besides this garbage condition stacking PvE change being brought to PvP too.

SpellOfIniquity.1780:

glaphen.5230:

SpellOfIniquity.1780:

glaphen.5230:

SpellOfIniquity.1780:

This is literally the last time I’m gonna bother commenting on one of these threads that’s claiming condition builds are “way too strong”, “OP” or what ever other kind of ridiculous dribble people want to spew.

Condition builds are not OP, the stupidity of the average player is. You laugh at someone who cries Thief is OP because it two shot them on their zerk amulet no block, no invuln build the same way you laugh at the person who cries conditions are OP on their no cleanse, no immunity build.

When I go in to a match I consider all possibilities. I don’t bring only blocks for physical damage while not bothering to bring any cleanses. And if I don’t bring one or the other (or some variation of it) I’m sure to be extra careful around that which I am weak to.

Burning Guardians are a bit over the top right now. Far from OP but if they catch you unprepared (in the middle of a fight for example) most times you are toast. If they have their burn stacks adjusted, there will be no condition builds that are anywhere near OP, at least in PvP.

I will die at least 60% of the time to a condition build if I am not a full offensive power build. I will die about 10% of the time if I am. -> When I fight a condition Mesmer on my zerk amulet Warrior they die before they can wear me down. When I fight one on my Soldier amulet Warrior they have enough time to stack conditions and I don’t have enough cleanses to manage them. You know why that’s okay? Because a bunker shouldn’t be able to bunk against everything.

Can you kitten off with your ridiculous dribble. Hurr condition build dies to a zerker Warrior somehow even though they have 2 working dodges but somehow they don’t on soldier even though if they were that kittened they would have died from the same Hundred Blades on the soldier. There is no way in hell anyone decent dies to a zerker Warrior with a condition build in a 1 vs 1, especially a Mesmer, the king of 1 vs 1.

“Condition builds are not OP, the stupidity of the average player is.”

So the stupid Mesmer somehow dies to a class that can only do damage against someone not moving i.e stunned, dies with one of the lowest cooldown semi-stun break in the game on his weapon and a free stun block of the telegraph hammer on the other one with an instant blind stealth on his torch.

I honestly have a much harder time against power Mesmers than I do condition… And this isn’t even about Mesmers I was just using them as an example because they are good 1v1’ers.

Don’t go balls deep when you have a dozen stacks of Confusion on you, stay as close to their face as possible to give them trouble with stacking conditions (the same thing you might do with a longbow Ranger) and don’t try to play attrition with them because the longer they’re alive the more of a threat they’re gonna become. As long as you’re pressuring the hell out of them they die easy… Which again brings me to the point that condition builds are not OP. People just really gotta stop trying to outlive these builds by doing a dance around them and trying to cleanse all their conditions. Their bursts have a ramp up, power builds don’t. Get right in their face and go ham, that is the best way to deal with condition builds.

In a 1 on 1 if they are bad but that works on anything, power builds have less defense so the same strategy works wow. Just hit them till they are dead while dodging everything and hitting them with all your big skills.

SpellOfIniquity.1780:

glaphen.5230:

SpellOfIniquity.1780:

This is literally the last time I’m gonna bother commenting on one of these threads that’s claiming condition builds are “way too strong”, “OP” or what ever other kind of ridiculous dribble people want to spew.

Condition builds are not OP, the stupidity of the average player is. You laugh at someone who cries Thief is OP because it two shot them on their zerk amulet no block, no invuln build the same way you laugh at the person who cries conditions are OP on their no cleanse, no immunity build.

When I go in to a match I consider all possibilities. I don’t bring only blocks for physical damage while not bothering to bring any cleanses. And if I don’t bring one or the other (or some variation of it) I’m sure to be extra careful around that which I am weak to.

Burning Guardians are a bit over the top right now. Far from OP but if they catch you unprepared (in the middle of a fight for example) most times you are toast. If they have their burn stacks adjusted, there will be no condition builds that are anywhere near OP, at least in PvP.

I will die at least 60% of the time to a condition build if I am not a full offensive power build. I will die about 10% of the time if I am. -> When I fight a condition Mesmer on my zerk amulet Warrior they die before they can wear me down. When I fight one on my Soldier amulet Warrior they have enough time to stack conditions and I don’t have enough cleanses to manage them. You know why that’s okay? Because a bunker shouldn’t be able to bunk against everything.

Can you kitten off with your ridiculous dribble. Hurr condition build dies to a zerker Warrior somehow even though they have 2 working dodges but somehow they don’t on soldier even though if they were that kittened they would have died from the same Hundred Blades on the soldier. There is no way in hell anyone decent dies to a zerker Warrior with a condition build in a 1 vs 1, especially a Mesmer, the king of 1 vs 1.

“Condition builds are not OP, the stupidity of the average player is.”

So the stupid Mesmer somehow dies to a class that can only do damage against someone not moving i.e stunned, dies with one of the lowest cooldown semi-stun break in the game on his weapon and a free stun block of the telegraph hammer on the other one with an instant blind stealth on his torch.

Yeah it would sure be fun to re-watch people tick down to condition damage as the applier /dances.

choovanski.5462:

IsilZha.3608:

robertul.3679:

glaphen.5230:

abc.5790:

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

Try moving out of range when you’re immobilized/knocked down? Sure, that’s always worked wonderfully. 8k Whirling Wrath is easy to land if you want to.

That said, if you’re bringing downed health into it (which death logs usually do), then it is immensely misleading, since when you’re downed, you have no active defense, nor cleanse.

That said, death logs, especially with conditions, are terribly unhelpful for figuring out what really killed you. If you take hits doing the following:
6k direct, 1k burn
4k direct, 1.5k burn
4.5k direct, 900 burn
3k direct, 1k burn
6.5k direct
5k direct, 1k burn
2k direct, 1.3k burn
7k direct, 500 burn

Burning will be shown at the top of the list with 7.2k damage. So that was the deadly part, right? Well, no, since the 36k direct damage was definitely a much larger contributor. But since no individual skill on the direct damage beat out the total of burning, burning is shown as the highest damage.

I like how you get it.

That’s why I don’t trust death logs. It combines the condition damage received and posts them in its generic form, instead of listing the source of condition from skill used

i.e. 2300 zealots flame, 930 purging flames, 4300 ring of fire, 3100 drakes breath 900 burning speed, 600 fan of fire etc, It will add all those up and list it as 12130 Burning.

Then someone will qq on the forum and say nerf burning even though the damage came for 3 classes through 6 skills.

Yeah those 3k burning ticks from 1 person must be my imagination.

It actually gets over 6k. From a single guard. In less than 3-5secs.

Stop walking back and forth over the purging flames border… just the other day I had a warrior get up to 17 stacks on himself almost entirely from stupidly running back and forth over it while trying to attack me.

i had a great moment with a burn guard on foefire mid. i was on my warrior & the burn guard threw down his PF. i just backed away from it facing him, & he just stood there trying to combo the field unsuccessfully with sceptre. after the duration finished he looked pretty sad. 100% waste of a cd if no one walks into it.

Dumb burn Guardian using scepter instead of greatsword and sword/torch.

SpellOfIniquity.1780:

This is literally the last time I’m gonna bother commenting on one of these threads that’s claiming condition builds are “way too strong”, “OP” or what ever other kind of ridiculous dribble people want to spew.

Condition builds are not OP, the stupidity of the average player is. You laugh at someone who cries Thief is OP because it two shot them on their zerk amulet no block, no invuln build the same way you laugh at the person who cries conditions are OP on their no cleanse, no immunity build.

When I go in to a match I consider all possibilities. I don’t bring only blocks for physical damage while not bothering to bring any cleanses. And if I don’t bring one or the other (or some variation of it) I’m sure to be extra careful around that which I am weak to.

Burning Guardians are a bit over the top right now. Far from OP but if they catch you unprepared (in the middle of a fight for example) most times you are toast. If they have their burn stacks adjusted, there will be no condition builds that are anywhere near OP, at least in PvP.

I will die at least 60% of the time to a condition build if I am not a full offensive power build. I will die about 10% of the time if I am. -> When I fight a condition Mesmer on my zerk amulet Warrior they die before they can wear me down. When I fight one on my Soldier amulet Warrior they have enough time to stack conditions and I don’t have enough cleanses to manage them. You know why that’s okay? Because a bunker shouldn’t be able to bunk against everything.

Can you kitten off with your ridiculous dribble. Hurr condition build dies to a zerker Warrior somehow even though they have 2 working dodges but somehow they don’t on soldier even though if they were that kittened they would have died from the same Hundred Blades on the soldier. There is no way in hell anyone decent dies to a zerker Warrior with a condition build in a 1 vs 1, especially a Mesmer, the king of 1 vs 1.

Well I have around 85 unranked games played now but I’ve only seen 2 4 vs 5s on my team, none on enemy team yet.

mistsim.2748:

Trevor Boyer.6524:

Our team ran five burn guards for awhile today as a joke.
They don’t even regularly play guardians.
We won every match.

hotjoin / low mmr doesn’t count. you have to stop coming up with ideas, conclusions and judgements based on low level play.

Yeah and high level premade vs premade makes up like 1% of all PvP games and the rest are screwed over by not having their personal support shout bunker butt slave.

LucosTheDutch.4819:

glaphen.5230:

Says the game, point decaps itself if you are stealthed, I would know since Last Refuge did that to me all the time a year ago.

Again, PvP is a team effort. You’re likely not the only person on the point (if you are, you’re doing it wrong).

Shadow Refuge is super useful. The single most useful skill in the thief kitten nal. Any thief without it is deliberately gimping himself and the team.

Shadow Refuge can be used to safely res allies, it can be used to secure stomps from either yourself or your allies and it can be used as a last-resort escape mechanism when you and your team are getting overpowered.

Escape and live to try another day is better than dying.

glaphen.5230:

Withdraw heals 4k every 18/14.5 seconds, Skelk heals 9k if all kittens connect every 40/32 seconds, difference is Withdraw gives 1.5 seconds of invulnerability, mobility, condition removal, instant cast and it’s seperated into 2 uses so you can use it earlier, can’t support the team if you are dead and that’s all Skelk will get you.

Running Skelk instead of Withdraw won’t get you killed, not with this build, unless you’re really really bad.

It will definitely keep you and your team alive. Not only is it a better heal than Withdraw (for this build), it also does damage to the opponents, something Withdraw doesn’t do.

If you want to play a venom share thief, Skelk is the way to go.

glaphen.5230:

Lol I doubt that could stand a chance against them,

Maybe YOU won’t stand a chance against them, but any competent player will. The weakness of a burn guard is heavy condi pressure. This build provides that. Burn guards should pose no treat to you on this build if you’re any good.

glaphen.5230:

You severely underestimate the power of Thief summons.

No, you severely overestimate them. Thieves Guild is garbage. Basilisk Venom is so much more useful. It screws with your enemies’ rotations, locks enemies down, it can prevent stomps, it can prevent runaways, it steals health and heals you (and allies) and it gives you might.

What does Thieves Guild give you in comparison? Two crappy A.I. companions with mediocre health and terrible DPS. We all know the A.I. in this game is garbage. Good player who know how to make proper use of Basilisk Venom will always take Basilisk Venom over Thieves Guild.

So many assumptions without numbers to back them up at least. So this build has 460 HPS compared to my 1.2k. It has .75 evades per 10 seconds compared to my 4 unless you use all your initiative on dodging on a condition build and then it has 2. It does 5745 armor ignoring leech damage compared to my 10341 if I don’t have prep time. It does around 4,100 torment damage and 2025 confusion plus 677 per skill for 5 seconds while my Poison does 3618 without prep time. It’s got 10 swiftness per 26 compared to my 4.75 per 5 if not weaknessed. Condition removal wise it has 6 removed if you sit in the Shadow Refuge for 20 seconds, compared to my 1 per 25 and burning/poison/bleeding per 20. It has no stun break while I have 1 per 30 automatically with an endurance recharge. It has 2 seconds worth of basilisk venom, 3 seconds of chill and 2 second of immobilize at 50% while I have 12 seconds worth of immobilize without prep time. This is with Improvisation version and not better Trickery version and my build has higher chance to reset something.

EDIT: also messed up the math. 13788 armor ignoring leech and 4824 poison damage.

LucosTheDutch.4819:

glaphen.5230:

Isn’t a bunker build if it has stealth.

Says who?

glaphen.5230:

Skelk venom is useless with a 32 second cooldown, Thief doesn’t need that much healing and a cast time on a Thief, lol, I tried it when I first started again but quickly switched back to Withdraw even with the nerfed cooldown it’s still 20 times better.

Skelk venom gives you more healing with 0 healing power than Withdraw does with a Clerics amulet.

Also you’re being selfish and not realizing PvP is a team effort. Skelk Venom with Venomous Aura is incredibly good and supportive to the team, which is part of the job of the bunker: supporting the thief.

Besides, in this condi-heavy meta, the more healing, the better (unless you have to sacrifice something really good for it, which Withdrawal isn’t).

glaphen.5230:

No Thieves means it stands no chance against a burn Guardian in a 1 vs 1 with venom share.

With the improved build I linked you, you’’ll totally stand a chance against burn guards. You’ll kill them with ease.

glaphen.5230:

Intelligence just to proc Generosity is another laugh, especially with for torment.

It helps keeping the conditions off you and increasing your own condi pressure. Feel free to swap out the Intelligence sigil for something else if you feel you don’t need it.

glaphen.5230:

Thing I don’t understand the most is why you would pass up Spider Venom for Ice Drake, if it’s a condition build why would you dump one of the best poison dumps in the game and 2 hits of leech for some chill, I mean the Spider Venom still does more than the Skale Venom by over 50% and you already got torment from runes and the sigil that you wasted Intelligence on.

Feel free to pick Spider Venom over Ice Drake Venom if you think it’s better. To me both are equally good. I like Ice Drake because it screws with the mobility and rotations of your opponents, which to me is more useful than another poison apply.

Skale Venom is definitely a must though. The Krait runes only give you 1 stack of torment when you use your Basilisk Venom and the sigil gives only 1 stack too. That alone simply isn’t enough.

Skale Venom doesn’t just give torment, it also gives vulnerability. It’s pretty much the best venom the thief has if you ask me.

But honestly, this build that I just linked will work fine with Spider + Ice too if that’s what you wanna roll with.

Seriously, try this build I linked out, pick the venoms you prefer, make sure you DEFINITELY bring Skelk and Basilisk venom, and you’ll see how much better you’ll do against the current condi-meta.

I mean, if you can have a 61% win ratio with a useless Clerics thief build, imagine how much you’ll win with an actual proper and useful build!

Says the game, point decaps itself if you are stealthed, I would know since Last Refuge did that to me all the time a year ago. Withdraw heals 4k every 18/14.5 seconds, Skelk heals 9k if all kittens connect every 40/32 seconds, difference is Withdraw gives 1.5 seconds of invulnerability, mobility, condition removal, instant cast and it’s seperated into 2 uses so you can use it earlier, can’t support the team if you are dead and that’s all Skelk will get you. Lol I doubt that could stand a chance against them, run away from them with Shadow Refuge sure, kill them without allies to put the venom on, no, maybe if you were using D/D unicorn with Settler but that would be useless against non melee. You severely underestimate the power of Thief summons. 5+hits=kittens now.

LucosTheDutch.4819:

glaphen.5230:

LucosTheDutch.4819:

glaphen.5230:

LucosTheDutch.4819:

glaphen.5230:

LucosTheDutch.4819:

glaphen.5230:

Saiyan.1704:

You’re right, condition builds have always been easier to play than Zerks, Maurauders, etc.

The question is whether or not these “easy” builds are suppose to be viable in competitive and solo play. A lot of players think they shouldn’t be viable.. when it’s a derivative version of Power damage.

Power / Sustains / Conditions
They’re all suppose to work equally. No one said they’re all suppose to be on the same difficulty. (Bunk builds are braindead specs too)

Only brain dead bunker builds are Warriors and Guardians.

Not true, yours is pretty brain dead too. The only difference is that bunk warriors and bunk guards are actually useful and provide proper team support.

Lol let’s see you use it and get a decent win loss, every class can make a bunker build, only Warriors and Guardians are any brain dead, both being purely passive regen with instant shouts.

Not every class can make a GOOD and USEFUL bunker build.

The most useful bunker builds will always be guardians, warriors and soon reapers and tempests too (though necro already is pretty amazing bunker right now as is, but will be even better as a reaper).

What does your thief “bunker” offer to the team? Venom Share? Are you even running that trait? And what use are your venoms gonna be with zero condition damage? Not a whole lot.

Besides, what good of a bunker are you if you die like a scrub to a simple burn guardian? The fact that you can’t even hold off a single burn guard on your “bunker” thieves proves your thief isn’t really a bunker and in fact pretty worthless.

If you think every class can be every role and excel at it, then you haven’t gotten the memo yet. That is simply not the case and anyone who played more than 10 PvP matches knows this.

Well with 4 allies around a Spider Venom does 11,490 armor ignoring damage if they don’t evade and 3,600 health per ally if they hit all of them.

So you need 4 allies (aka zerging, not a good strategy) to do a pathetic 11k damage (barely enough to get the most squishy classes downed)? And you think that’s good?

LMAO!

Seriously, at the very least use a Carrion amulet with Krait or Necromancer runes. At least then you’d actually contribute something to your team and you’d actually be more of a “bunker” than you are now with your Clerics amulet (with the current condi-heavy meta, vitality is a way more useful stat than toughness). Right now you’re just a semi-hard to kill target (with emphasis on “semi”, cause 1 single burn guard can kill you, so again, you’re quite a pathetic bunker).

Face is dude, not every class can be everything. Thieves are great and can offer a lot to the team, but not as a bunker.

Sure thing also proof of your 70% win rate, all I’ve heard is 54%.

That’s on my main account with 1000+ matches played on it.

I’ll take a screenshot of my alt account the next time I log in so you can see it.

Also, I improved your build for you and made it up to date so it will be useful again in the current meta. With this you’ll be absolutely demolishing burn guards: http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vZAQNAV6YnMJCVNhNNBePB8PhDYiynGnxIy7hg4H0JQAsbA-TZBHABAcRASqMQZPAAR2fQ4jAAA

You’re welcome.

Isn’t a bunker build if it has stealth. Skelk venom is useless with a 32 second cooldown, Thief doesn’t need that much healing and a cast time on a Thief, lol, I tried it when I first started again but quickly switched back to Withdraw even with the nerfed cooldown it’s still 20 times better. No Thieves means it stands no chance against a burn Guardian in a 1 vs 1 with venom share. Intelligence just to proc Generosity is another laugh, especially with for torment. Thing I don’t understand the most is why you would pass up Spider Venom for Ice Drake, if it’s a condition build why would you dump one of the best poison dumps in the game and 2 hits of leech for some chill, I mean the Spider Venom still does more than the Skale Venom by over 50% and you already got torment from runes and the sigil that you wasted Intelligence on.

LucosTheDutch.4819:

glaphen.5230:

LucosTheDutch.4819:

glaphen.5230:

LucosTheDutch.4819:

glaphen.5230:

Saiyan.1704:

You’re right, condition builds have always been easier to play than Zerks, Maurauders, etc.

The question is whether or not these “easy” builds are suppose to be viable in competitive and solo play. A lot of players think they shouldn’t be viable.. when it’s a derivative version of Power damage.

Power / Sustains / Conditions
They’re all suppose to work equally. No one said they’re all suppose to be on the same difficulty. (Bunk builds are braindead specs too)

Only brain dead bunker builds are Warriors and Guardians.

Not true, yours is pretty brain dead too. The only difference is that bunk warriors and bunk guards are actually useful and provide proper team support.

Lol let’s see you use it and get a decent win loss, every class can make a bunker build, only Warriors and Guardians are any brain dead, both being purely passive regen with instant shouts.

Not every class can make a GOOD and USEFUL bunker build.

The most useful bunker builds will always be guardians, warriors and soon reapers and tempests too (though necro already is pretty amazing bunker right now as is, but will be even better as a reaper).

What does your thief “bunker” offer to the team? Venom Share? Are you even running that trait? And what use are your venoms gonna be with zero condition damage? Not a whole lot.

Besides, what good of a bunker are you if you die like a scrub to a simple burn guardian? The fact that you can’t even hold off a single burn guard on your “bunker” thieves proves your thief isn’t really a bunker and in fact pretty worthless.

If you think every class can be every role and excel at it, then you haven’t gotten the memo yet. That is simply not the case and anyone who played more than 10 PvP matches knows this.

Well with 4 allies around a Spider Venom does 11,490 armor ignoring damage if they don’t evade and 3,600 health per ally if they hit all of them.

So you need 4 allies (aka zerging, not a good strategy) to do a pathetic 11k damage (barely enough to get the most squishy classes downed)? And you think that’s good?

LMAO!

Seriously, at the very least use a Carrion amulet with Krait or Necromancer runes. At least then you’d actually contribute something to your team and you’d actually be more of a “bunker” than you are now with your Clerics amulet (with the current condi-heavy meta, vitality is a way more useful stat than toughness). Right now you’re just a semi-hard to kill target (with emphasis on “semi”, cause 1 single burn guard can kill you, so again, you’re quite a pathetic bunker).

Face is dude, not every class can be everything. Thieves are great and can offer a lot to the team, but not as a bunker.

Sure thing also proof of your 70% win rate, all I’ve heard is 54%.

LucosTheDutch.4819:

glaphen.5230:

LucosTheDutch.4819:

glaphen.5230:

Saiyan.1704:

You’re right, condition builds have always been easier to play than Zerks, Maurauders, etc.

The question is whether or not these “easy” builds are suppose to be viable in competitive and solo play. A lot of players think they shouldn’t be viable.. when it’s a derivative version of Power damage.

Power / Sustains / Conditions
They’re all suppose to work equally. No one said they’re all suppose to be on the same difficulty. (Bunk builds are braindead specs too)

Only brain dead bunker builds are Warriors and Guardians.

Not true, yours is pretty brain dead too. The only difference is that bunk warriors and bunk guards are actually useful and provide proper team support.

Lol let’s see you use it and get a decent win loss, every class can make a bunker build, only Warriors and Guardians are any brain dead, both being purely passive regen with instant shouts.

Not every class can make a GOOD and USEFUL bunker build.

The most useful bunker builds will always be guardians, warriors and soon reapers and tempests too (though necro already is pretty amazing bunker right now as is, but will be even better as a reaper).

What does your thief “bunker” offer to the team? Venom Share? Are you even running that trait? And what use are your venoms gonna be with zero condition damage? Not a whole lot.

Besides, what good of a bunker are you if you die like a scrub to a simple burn guardian? The fact that you can’t even hold off a single burn guard on your “bunker” thieves proves your thief isn’t really a bunker and in fact pretty worthless.

If you think every class can be every role and excel at it, then you haven’t gotten the memo yet. That is simply not the case and anyone who played more than 10 PvP matches knows this.

Well with 4 allies around a Spider Venom does 11,490 armor ignoring damage if they don’t evade and 3,600 health per ally if they hit all of them.

LucosTheDutch.4819:

glaphen.5230:

Saiyan.1704:

glaphen.5230:

Saiyan.1704:

glaphen.5230:

choovanski.5462:

glaphen.5230:

SlayerSixx.5763:

Vuln on symbol is in the zeal line. Virtues are mandatory for faster VoJ procs and aoe VoJ (also CD reduction on PF). Valor is mandatory for the sustain and CD reductions across the board. Radiance gives better burn damage than zeal. If you’re running virtues/zeal/radiance, you have 0 sustain. There is absolutely no way you know what you’re talking about. Please stop, this is getting painful.

Sure thing but I think Virtues/Zeal/Radiance is best, Guardians have enough base sustain with Carrion and a 2nd mediation is kitten.

you need valour for monks focus, or else medis don’t heal. smh that second medi you mention is in valour too.

I said taking a 2nd one is kitten, Monks Focus is like a 4-6k health boost out of 25k+ with Shelter and Carrion, doubt a Burn Guardian will survive long enough to use any meditations a 2nd time in a team fight unless you waste a slot for Smite Conditions. You people keep saying they have no mobility and are melee range so they are not going to escape the middle of the team fight, kill or be killed.

Please just stohp. You’re making us kringe our teeth with your inexperience Guardian “nurf condi cuz i’m a teef!” shenanigans.

There’s a reason why Valor is used on every meta Guardian build dude… with the exception of certain yolo power burst guard builds.

Whoa yolo condition burst Guard builds.

“… with the exception of certain yolo power burst guard builds.

You only see what you want to read uh… power is marauders and zerk amulets. Not condi.

Yea, i’m done with politically correcting this Thief that thinks Zeal is a new condi meta tree we all should use… ridiculousness. His terrible teef gameplay strats… 1v1ing a condi trap ranger because his team “needed points” was the real knee slapper.

Lol this guy and his kittened post again, you see those numbers at the very top of the screen during a game, you want that to be 500. You don’t win games by fighting off point, nor do you win them by kills, team that has 3 points all game long would still win if the enemy team killed 5 people every 20 seconds with 0 points.

You have a very limited and basic understanding of PvP. You don’t even seem to get that killing people also scores your team points.

Never mind the fact that if you want to have a chance at killing a condi trap ranger, you should avoid his traps at all cost. If that means getting off point, then so be it. You’re more useful to your team if you can kill the condi ranger and then (re)cap the point, rather than staying on point, eating all his traps, dying like a scrub and then losing the point anyway. That is not gonna win you matches.

I seriously can’t believe I have to explain this to you. You’d think that someone who played more than 3000 matches would know this by now.

You sure it’s not you with the horrible understanding of PvP. I win most of my matches still so I’m pretty sure I know how to PvP.

LucosTheDutch.4819:

glaphen.5230:

Saiyan.1704:

You’re right, condition builds have always been easier to play than Zerks, Maurauders, etc.

The question is whether or not these “easy” builds are suppose to be viable in competitive and solo play. A lot of players think they shouldn’t be viable.. when it’s a derivative version of Power damage.

Power / Sustains / Conditions
They’re all suppose to work equally. No one said they’re all suppose to be on the same difficulty. (Bunk builds are braindead specs too)

Only brain dead bunker builds are Warriors and Guardians.

Not true, yours is pretty brain dead too. The only difference is that bunk warriors and bunk guards are actually useful and provide proper team support.

Lol let’s see you use it and get a decent win loss, every class can make a bunker build, only Warriors and Guardians are any brain dead, both being purely passive regen with instant shouts.

Archon.6480:

To the OP: What are Rangers supposed to run then? Our direct damage is so pitiful we’d be hopeless without fire damage. Even with fire damage I do 3 times as much damage on my Mesmer without even breaking a sweat. Ranger has the weakest direct damage imaginable. Just try running one and see if you break 250,000 in a match. Good luck!

Healer, ANet is even promoting it.

Saiyan.1704:

glaphen.5230:

Saiyan.1704:

glaphen.5230:

choovanski.5462:

glaphen.5230:

SlayerSixx.5763:

Vuln on symbol is in the zeal line. Virtues are mandatory for faster VoJ procs and aoe VoJ (also CD reduction on PF). Valor is mandatory for the sustain and CD reductions across the board. Radiance gives better burn damage than zeal. If you’re running virtues/zeal/radiance, you have 0 sustain. There is absolutely no way you know what you’re talking about. Please stop, this is getting painful.

Sure thing but I think Virtues/Zeal/Radiance is best, Guardians have enough base sustain with Carrion and a 2nd mediation is kitten.

you need valour for monks focus, or else medis don’t heal. smh that second medi you mention is in valour too.

I said taking a 2nd one is kitten, Monks Focus is like a 4-6k health boost out of 25k+ with Shelter and Carrion, doubt a Burn Guardian will survive long enough to use any meditations a 2nd time in a team fight unless you waste a slot for Smite Conditions. You people keep saying they have no mobility and are melee range so they are not going to escape the middle of the team fight, kill or be killed.

Please just stohp. You’re making us kringe our teeth with your inexperience Guardian “nurf condi cuz i’m a teef!” shenanigans.

There’s a reason why Valor is used on every meta Guardian build dude… with the exception of certain yolo power burst guard builds.

Whoa yolo condition burst Guard builds.

“… with the exception of certain yolo power burst guard builds.

You only see what you want to read uh… power is marauders and zerk amulets. Not condi.

Yea, i’m done with politically correcting this Thief that thinks Zeal is a new condi meta tree we all should use… ridiculousness. His terrible teef gameplay strats… 1v1ing a condi trap ranger because his team “needed points” was the real knee slapper.

Lol this guy and his kittened post again, you see those numbers at the very top of the screen during a game, you want that to be 500. You don’t win games by fighting off point, nor do you win them by kills, team that has 3 points all game long would still win if the enemy team killed 5 people every 20 seconds with 0 points.

Saiyan.1704:

glaphen.5230:

choovanski.5462:

glaphen.5230:

SlayerSixx.5763:

Vuln on symbol is in the zeal line. Virtues are mandatory for faster VoJ procs and aoe VoJ (also CD reduction on PF). Valor is mandatory for the sustain and CD reductions across the board. Radiance gives better burn damage than zeal. If you’re running virtues/zeal/radiance, you have 0 sustain. There is absolutely no way you know what you’re talking about. Please stop, this is getting painful.

Sure thing but I think Virtues/Zeal/Radiance is best, Guardians have enough base sustain with Carrion and a 2nd mediation is kitten.

you need valour for monks focus, or else medis don’t heal. smh that second medi you mention is in valour too.

I said taking a 2nd one is kitten, Monks Focus is like a 4-6k health boost out of 25k+ with Shelter and Carrion, doubt a Burn Guardian will survive long enough to use any meditations a 2nd time in a team fight unless you waste a slot for Smite Conditions. You people keep saying they have no mobility and are melee range so they are not going to escape the middle of the team fight, kill or be killed.

Please just stohp. You’re making us kringe our teeth with your inexperience Guardian “nurf condi cuz i’m a teef!” shenanigans.

There’s a reason why Valor is used on every meta Guardian build dude… with the exception of certain yolo power burst guard builds.

Whoa yolo condition burst Guard builds.

choovanski.5462:

glaphen.5230:

SlayerSixx.5763:

Vuln on symbol is in the zeal line. Virtues are mandatory for faster VoJ procs and aoe VoJ (also CD reduction on PF). Valor is mandatory for the sustain and CD reductions across the board. Radiance gives better burn damage than zeal. If you’re running virtues/zeal/radiance, you have 0 sustain. There is absolutely no way you know what you’re talking about. Please stop, this is getting painful.

Sure thing but I think Virtues/Zeal/Radiance is best, Guardians have enough base sustain with Carrion and a 2nd mediation is kitten.

you need valour for monks focus, or else medis don’t heal. smh that second medi you mention is in valour too.

I said taking a 2nd one is kitten, Monks Focus is like a 4-6k health boost out of 25k+ with Shelter and Carrion, doubt a Burn Guardian will survive long enough to use any meditations a 2nd time in a team fight unless you waste a slot for Smite Conditions. You people keep saying they have no mobility and are melee range so they are not going to escape the middle of the team fight, kill or be killed.

SlayerSixx.5763:

That’s your problem. You’re operating on what YOU think is right when the reality is completely different. You spoke about low MMRs earlier and why a <2s burst from my warrior sounded improbable vs decent players, but then you talk about people taking damage from your symbols? You could have 30k HP and still not have enough, especially during this meta (see necro).

Lol you only need one tick to disrupt cleanses and it has 1/4 second cast time. Burn Guardian is a burst build, won’t work vs premades so building it around a less than 20% health increase if not poisoned sustain is the wrong move for random vs random games.

Alekt.5803:

glaphen.5230:

Good burn skills
[…]
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Conjure_Flame_Axe

If that’s good, I am the president of the United States.

For a condition build yes it is, gives a leap every 15 seconds for Fire Shield and 180 condition damage with multiple burning skills.

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

glaphen.5230:

Good burn skills
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Burning_Fire
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Combustive_Shot
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Virtue_of_Justice
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/The_Prestige
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Judge's_Intervention
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Purging_Flames
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Flame_Trap
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Cleansing_Fire
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Conjure_Flame_Axe
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Signet_of_Fire
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Flamethrower
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Bomb_Kit
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Amplified_Wrath
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Expeditious_Spirit
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Radiant_Fire
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Incendiary_Powder
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Blowtorch
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Bonfire
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Throw_Torch
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Zealot's_Flame
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Burning_Speed
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Fire_field#Combo_effects_by_finisher

Incendiary Powder is a skill now? Burning Speed (which is bad if Flame Wall is bad, they operate the same way) is good for burning?. Spirit Weapons and Conjure Flame Axe are good at all?

Try looking again through those effects. 2 stacks of burn for 10 seconds is good? 1 stack for 5 seconds? I love how I list the burning-causing skills from Engineer kits, you say they’re terrible, and then list the kit they’re from.

Trait’s, skill, no difference, you could have listed them in the possible to dodge list but oh wait they can’t be. Burning Speed is on dagger, dagger is a good weapon. Spirit Weapons are amazing for burning, 10k health and spam 5 second duration burning on every hit, hammer hit’s 3 times and it’s 3rd hit knockbacks and it can knockdown for 9 seconds out of it’s 30 second life time. Balth runes go on any burning based build, 45% condition duration. You listed the crappy skills, Napalm only works on downed people, Incendiary Ammo and the Streamlined Kits trait is the only reason to take it.

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

glaphen.5230:

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

So, what you’re saying, is that most burn applications are worthless, even though they are your primary complaint for being too powerful and impossible to deal with?

I rest my case.

More like I already listed the good ones and you listed everything else that applies burning with a cast time.

I listed all of them that were reasonably avoidable. Which happens to include all but two with a cast time (Fan of Fire and Ring of Fire, FYI, both at 1/4 second cast). Which only leaves out, like, 3 skills total that apply burning.

Yes, I left out flame trap and bonfire, both of which are easy to avoid. Same with Combustive Shot. Both are easy to avoid, but since you have a fetish with standing on point regardless of whether or not it’s in your best interest, I figure that, for you, they would fall under the “not reasonably avoidable” category.

I’ll revise my description of your argument:

“Burning is OP because it’s unavoidable, even though all but 5 skills that apply burning in the entire game are quite able to be avoided by the average player and of those remaining five, only two are any good for burning damage, and only one of those two is likely to be used more than once in a fight.”

I have that right? Because that’s a pretty succinct summary of what you’ve been saying.

Good burn skills
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Burning_Fire
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Combustive_Shot
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Virtue_of_Justice
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/The_Prestige
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Judge's_Intervention
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Purging_Flames
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Flame_Trap
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Cleansing_Fire
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Conjure_Flame_Axe
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Signet_of_Fire
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Flamethrower
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Bomb_Kit
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Amplified_Wrath
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Expeditious_Spirit
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Radiant_Fire
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Incendiary_Powder
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Blowtorch
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Bonfire
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Throw_Torch
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Zealot's_Flame
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Burning_Speed
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Fire_field#Combo_effects_by_finisher

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

So, what you’re saying, is that most burn applications are worthless, even though they are your primary complaint for being too powerful and impossible to deal with?

I rest my case.

More like I already listed the good ones and you listed everything else that applies burning with a cast time.

SlayerSixx.5763:

Vuln on symbol is in the zeal line. Virtues are mandatory for faster VoJ procs and aoe VoJ (also CD reduction on PF). Valor is mandatory for the sustain and CD reductions across the board. Radiance gives better burn damage than zeal. If you’re running virtues/zeal/radiance, you have 0 sustain. There is absolutely no way you know what you’re talking about. Please stop, this is getting painful.

Sure thing but I think Virtues/Zeal/Radiance is best, Guardians have enough base sustain with Carrion and a 2nd mediation is kitten.

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

glaphen.5230:

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

If half a second “might as well be instant”, then Warriors have been throwing around instant 3 second stuns since launch.

For the point-covering fire fields that you can’t just stand in (so Ring of Fire and Purging Flames are out, since they only do a lot if you pass through them repeatedly, excluding initial cast), there are only four in the game. Flame Trap and Fire Bomb are both very short lived, at 3 and 4 seconds respectively. Neither last long enough for a decap.

Of the two that remain, we have Bonfire (8 second duration on 25 second cooldown) and Combustive Shot (but, as you said, Warrior Longbow isn’t viable ) with up to a 9 second duration on 8 second cooldown. Bonfire doesn’t let you cap a point on its own. Heck, that’s barely enough time for the decap. After that’s expired, you have 17 seconds to fight him before it can come back up.

You’re right they were, then they nerfed mace to half a second from 1/4 but I don’t even care about it’s speed because mace is a kitten weapon besides that, pretty hard to make a no stun breaker build but condition removal needs to be specifically put in, if you let a mace Warrior hump your face in the first place, has no mobility unless they swap or Bullsrush but then they aren’t comboing into a swap. Short lived but low cooldown 12/8 with 3 second durations. Bonfire can be used twice in one weapon swap with Quick Draw trait, how is 8 seconds not long enough for a decap? But again you still didn’t list a single other possible to dodge burning skill, because they don’t exist, only ones are Dragon’s Tooth and basic attack on the useless scepter.

Okay, want me to list the easily dodgable ones? Because I can do that. I’ll even leave out the fields you don’t want to stand in, regardless of their ease of dodging (hint: most are)
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Throw_Torch
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Dragon's_Tooth
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Drake's_Breath
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Flamestrike (overall, not worth it, since it’s an auto-attack, but definitely avoidable)
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Flamewall
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/The_Prestige (this one is easy to dodge, but requires counting the time)
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Zealot's_Fire
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Blowtorch
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Flame_Turret
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Purging_Flames
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Signet_of_Fire
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Flame_Jet (again, an auto-attack, but easily dodgable, especially as the burning is only on the last tick)
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Throw_Napalm
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Rocket_Kick
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Napalm (depends on range, as it’s a fairly slow-moving projectile)
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Fire_Breath

I’ll leave out racial skills and situational ones like boon corruption or random chance. Funny thing, I just listed the majority of skills that burn.

And yes, a half-second cast is quite dodgable.

kitten you sure can pick some of the most useless skills not actually used. Already said torch throws, Dragon’s Tooth and Flamestrike. Drake’s Breath is a channel and only 5 second cooldown that can be reduced 33% so yeah good luck dodging it. Flamewall is a thin field that is only good on downed people. Blowtorch has no animation to look for, literally the same as any other pistol attack animation but not a projectile. Flame Turret, don’t see why you would even mention that, Guardian Spirit weapons are 10x stronger. Rocket kick isn’t worth taking either, a kit is stronger for a condition build either way. Signet of Fire is literally just a 1/2 point animation, signet appears when you’ve already been hit. Lol dodge 2 second burning every 2 seconds on flamethrower, not even worth dodging. Throw Napalm requires turret again. Napalm is only good against downed people same as Firewall. Firebreath is useless, only good drakes are Marsh and River. Only one you have a point on is Prestige if you want if you can count but you have to know if he has PU or not for that to even work.

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

glaphen.5230:

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

glaphen.5230:

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

glaphen.5230:

D I V A.6018:

WuGzaGenius.5684:

i main necro, burn gaurds are my favorite snack.

If I run burn guard, the only think I really fear are necros. Even 2v1 I really try to avoid the coordinated ones, since they can kill me with 1 transfer in a critical moment.

I can not understand why people flame (pun intended) so much about burn builds.
Get good or equip condi remove.

Isn’t enough, how about you get good and use weapon swap conditions, only way 1 transfers gonna work is if they get lucky with Generosity or they are a Necromancer, though if you have Purging Flames you should not die to the first transfer anyways.

Funny thing: Purging Flames does nothing to help against transfers. The duration is set when the condition is first applied, and, short of cleanses, nothing can change that duration once it’s been set. Transfers use all of the characteristics of the original application, including altering damage ticks if the initial applicator gains or loses stacks of Might/Sigil of Corruption.

Uhh Purging Flames removes conditions too. Only transfers are Necromancers and one Mesmer skill, next is luck based Generosity sigil for 1 condition.

If he hasn’t used his big-hitting burn skill yet, the transfer probably wasn’t needed. Sure, the Sigil may proc before then, but intentionally cleansing before he pops Purging Flames is…kinda asking to be punished.

Small amounts of damage aren’t worth cleansing.

As for 3k ticks? Yeah, those aren’t coming instantly. That’s requiring 7 stacks of burning from a Burn Guardian in PvP, and the most a Guardian can get without a cast time is 4 (via VoJ proc/active, both are 1 stack, and Judges Intervention). Which means the other 3 stacks have a cast time associated with them that you can avoid. Anyone else…3 stacks or fewer instant at maximum, which also hurt less than a Guardian’s.

You know I actually decided to go test how they do the combo and it’s super easy to get 7 stacks instantly. Use Zealot’s and start the cast for Fire, use Judge’s about half way through the fast cast and swap weapons, 7 stacks of burning for the 1 justice proc and 3 from point blank torch and 3 from Judge’s with 1 poison and 3 bleed stacks. Can kill the Target golems with just that.

So, not instant at all, in other words. Fast, sure, but against a player, they can just cleanse and now you’re down a stunbreak/gap closer, weapon swap is on cooldown (so no Scepter/Torch), and, since you’re a burn guardian, you’re lacking the lockdown to properly land a Whirling Wrath or prevent Purging Flames from being dodged. Or you have no stunbreak left, which can also be heavily exploited.

So they swap to greatsword use Symbol of Wrath and now you got vulnerability for 4 cleanse, if you remove the burn fight continues, if you don’t you die quickly.

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

If half a second “might as well be instant”, then Warriors have been throwing around instant 3 second stuns since launch.

For the point-covering fire fields that you can’t just stand in (so Ring of Fire and Purging Flames are out, since they only do a lot if you pass through them repeatedly, excluding initial cast), there are only four in the game. Flame Trap and Fire Bomb are both very short lived, at 3 and 4 seconds respectively. Neither last long enough for a decap.

Of the two that remain, we have Bonfire (8 second duration on 25 second cooldown) and Combustive Shot (but, as you said, Warrior Longbow isn’t viable ) with up to a 9 second duration on 8 second cooldown. Bonfire doesn’t let you cap a point on its own. Heck, that’s barely enough time for the decap. After that’s expired, you have 17 seconds to fight him before it can come back up.

You’re right they were, then they nerfed mace to half a second from 1/4 but I don’t even care about it’s speed because mace is a kitten weapon besides that, pretty hard to make a no stun breaker build but condition removal needs to be specifically put in, if you let a mace Warrior hump your face in the first place, has no mobility unless they swap or Bullsrush but then they aren’t comboing into a swap. Short lived but low cooldown 12/8 with 3 second durations. Bonfire can be used twice in one weapon swap with Quick Draw trait, how is 8 seconds not long enough for a decap? But again you still didn’t list a single other possible to dodge burning skill, because they don’t exist, only ones are Dragon’s Tooth and basic attack on the useless scepter.

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

glaphen.5230:

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

glaphen.5230:

D I V A.6018:

WuGzaGenius.5684:

i main necro, burn gaurds are my favorite snack.

If I run burn guard, the only think I really fear are necros. Even 2v1 I really try to avoid the coordinated ones, since they can kill me with 1 transfer in a critical moment.

I can not understand why people flame (pun intended) so much about burn builds.
Get good or equip condi remove.

Isn’t enough, how about you get good and use weapon swap conditions, only way 1 transfers gonna work is if they get lucky with Generosity or they are a Necromancer, though if you have Purging Flames you should not die to the first transfer anyways.

Funny thing: Purging Flames does nothing to help against transfers. The duration is set when the condition is first applied, and, short of cleanses, nothing can change that duration once it’s been set. Transfers use all of the characteristics of the original application, including altering damage ticks if the initial applicator gains or loses stacks of Might/Sigil of Corruption.

Uhh Purging Flames removes conditions too. Only transfers are Necromancers and one Mesmer skill, next is luck based Generosity sigil for 1 condition.

If he hasn’t used his big-hitting burn skill yet, the transfer probably wasn’t needed. Sure, the Sigil may proc before then, but intentionally cleansing before he pops Purging Flames is…kinda asking to be punished.

Small amounts of damage aren’t worth cleansing.

As for 3k ticks? Yeah, those aren’t coming instantly. That’s requiring 7 stacks of burning from a Burn Guardian in PvP, and the most a Guardian can get without a cast time is 4 (via VoJ proc/active, both are 1 stack, and Judges Intervention). Which means the other 3 stacks have a cast time associated with them that you can avoid. Anyone else…3 stacks or fewer instant at maximum, which also hurt less than a Guardian’s.

You know I actually decided to go test how they do the combo and it’s super easy to get 7 stacks instantly. Use Zealot’s and start the cast for Fire, use Judge’s about half way through the fast cast and swap weapons, 7 stacks of burning for the 1 justice proc and 3 from point blank torch and 3 from Judge’s with 1 poison and 3 bleed stacks. Can kill the Target golems with just that.

SlayerSixx.5763:

Big tell, maybe, but if you bait the dodges with warrior’s 102043 moderately high damage skills and then land a bulls charge, there’s nothing the target can do. Baiting is something guard can’t do. You’re telling me that you can’t dodge the one burst combo DPS guardians have been doing since the start of the game? You mean to tell me that you actually stand next to the guard and let his ZF passively apply its burn? Seriously? Do you have any idea how powerful DH is going to be? Don’t wrack your brain over the question, they won’t be. Why is that? Because of traps. Why are traps so weak? Because they’re ground targeted (also have more of a delay for activation vs PF, but the difference is negligible). Why is the difference negligible? Because with all of the mobility flying around and no way for guard to stay on their target, its a waste of a slot. Why is PF any different? For the classes that can’t kite guard, they have other ways of dealing with the burn. For the classes that can kite guard, then its the easiest thing ever. The burns don’t just magic their way onto you.

Burning JI for a stun break only? Oh my. I think we’ve located the problem.

Have a nice day, sir.

Difference is at the start of the game burn only did like 1k damage per tick with a condition build so it wasn’t broken, physical builds are easier to stop than condition. Again they don’t even need to use justice to proc their massive burns. I have not looked up DH but traps will be useless in WvW as always, this is SPvP, people need to stay on the tiny point so I doubt traps will be useless unless they are Thief tier and Dragon Maw looks pretty nice, either way this isn’t about elite specializations that haven’t come out yet.

SlayerSixx.5763:

The teleport is instant, that’s it. He’s slow. You pressure him with range, he’ll be forced to pop the port to begin pressuring, but you should know its coming. 3k ticks for 3s is 9k+his pitiful 3k whirl and that’s being generous all amounts to 12k burst. On my warrior, with a difference in speed compared to my guardian that can only be described as the distance between the heavens and the earth, I can land a nearly 17k burst with one skill NEARLY instantly (thanks to heightened focus). In terms of defense, my warrior is no slouch either since he has 20k HP base, double EP, and I’m running defiant stance for kittens and giggles. The bleed and poison only happen after one of you initiates. Don’t be an idiot and let him initiate so he doesn’t get the benefit of his sigils right off the bat if you aren’t confident in your ability to dodge his condi burst?

You’re complaining about not being able to create 2-300 range gap (i don’t remember the exact radius) from the slowest guy on the field? What in the actual kitten?

I guess bads will always be bads.

Yep you will always be if you actually are landing 17k hits on a Warrior in PvP, must be some low MMR stuff because Warriors have the easiest big skills to dodge in the game. I don’t see how you initiating changes anything, Judge’s is a stun break too and there is no way to stop his sigils. Make that gap but you still take 3k per second.

SlayerSixx.5763:

Uh, SA reducing damage by 25% as long as you’re stealthed. Not as powerful as prot, but it stacks with it. I know that doesn’t validate choov’s comment, buy thought I’d throw it out there.

Also, pain response, shadow step (and if you’re intent on not stealthing) signet of agility is 1 + another 1 for every nearby ally (idk cap). If you run S/D, 1 per SW2 return. Withdraw and HiS theoretically cleanse 3 (+1 on withdraw if you run trickster).

Thief has enough condi cleanse outside of stealth IMO.

Aaaaalso, if you know the player knows how to land skills in between dodge casts (treat everyone like they’re intelligent until proven otherwise), be smarter and have a little something something ready for him when your roll is about to end. Its not rocket science people.

LOL 25% reduction while stealthed=protection, only Thief protection comes from Mesmer steal. Pain Response is good but hasn’t kept up with the times and doesn’t remove confusion and torment and can proc with 0 conditions, which is good my builds regeneration upkeep at least. Shadow Step is 3 per 50 seconds and wastes the teleport aspect mostly. Signet is only 1 per ally only, only good for the endurance to yourself. HiS has some of the worst healing of any skill and again doesn’t remove torment/confusion. Literally no way to stop Shortbows aftercast since they nerfed the evade besides weapon swapping.

SlayerSixx.5763:

Learn where 1200 range starts. If he uses it at less than that, he wasted his best gap closer and he’d well within range for you to interrupt/watch the whirl happen. If he starts whirling and you aren’t close to him, you know what he’s about to do. The bleed and poison do negligible damage and although the poison serves an alternate purpose, you shouldn’t even be getting hit by their ridiculously obvious tells. If he lands his whirl without teleporting, I have no idea what to tell you. If he lands his smite without chain (which has its own tell), again, I have no idea what to tell you. If he lands his fireball (which is glitchy as kitten), again, nothing to say. Guard, in general (and especially the burn build), has no extra CCs or bursts they can throw at you to bait a dodge or stun break so if you aren’t bad, avoiding it is actually a very simple task if he doesn’t try instagibbing you from behind a wall.

Also, how’s about you remove the conditions BEFORE they pass that 3 threshold. The sigils only proc when they’re in battle so the poison and bleed aren’t happening if they insta gib you from behind a wall. If they ARE in battle, them swapping to GS should already be a big fat “GET READY TO DODGGGGEEEEEE” call out. Basically, them attacking you head on is them being super polite and announcing their attacks.

To add some humour to this generally salt filled thread:

Everything you need to do to deal with a burn guard, assuming not blind

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=kvS6zMThiZU

Too bad the 3k ticks don’t even need justice procs to start, it’s instant get that through your head already, it’s his choice when to use it, you are not going to dodge it. The bleed and poison get in the way of removing the 3k ticks and keep you from healing, both are instant and not possible to dodge besides luck. The justice procs aren’t even that bad, getting hit by the sword multi-hit is less than a torch throw that he does twice every 10 seconds, hell it’s less than standing next to him at all with those instant burns from Zealot.

abc.5790:

robertul.3679:

glaphen.5230:

abc.5790:

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

Try moving out of range when you’re immobilized/knocked down? Sure, that’s always worked wonderfully. 8k Whirling Wrath is easy to land if you want to.

That said, if you’re bringing downed health into it (which death logs usually do), then it is immensely misleading, since when you’re downed, you have no active defense, nor cleanse.

That said, death logs, especially with conditions, are terribly unhelpful for figuring out what really killed you. If you take hits doing the following:
6k direct, 1k burn
4k direct, 1.5k burn
4.5k direct, 900 burn
3k direct, 1k burn
6.5k direct
5k direct, 1k burn
2k direct, 1.3k burn
7k direct, 500 burn

Burning will be shown at the top of the list with 7.2k damage. So that was the deadly part, right? Well, no, since the 36k direct damage was definitely a much larger contributor. But since no individual skill on the direct damage beat out the total of burning, burning is shown as the highest damage.

I like how you get it.

That’s why I don’t trust death logs. It combines the condition damage received and posts them in its generic form, instead of listing the source of condition from skill used

i.e. 2300 zealots flame, 930 purging flames, 4300 ring of fire, 3100 drakes breath 900 burning speed, 600 fan of fire etc, It will add all those up and list it as 12130 Burning.

Then someone will qq on the forum and say nerf burning even though the damage came for 3 classes through 6 skills.

Yeah those 3k burning ticks from 1 person must be my imagination.

It actually gets over 6k. From a single guard. In less than 3-5secs.

Dayym you guys. The skills are from 3 different classes – guard ele warrior. I play support guard so excuse me if my estimate offended you. It’s pretty entertaining when you guys knit-pick the smallest detail and ignore the primary message —- Death logs are unreliable because it presents condition damage, in this case burning, into one lump sum figure.

I’m gonna make some funnel cake now and share with y’all if I could

Because 1 person can do that much burning, don’t need 3.

Thiefz.3695:

I was told over the weekend by a burn guard “so muc bunk”. I out played his burns and kept him poisoned so long that he couldn’t heal that much. It took a 2v1 burst build to take me out. That happens far more often with thieves as well that try a burst on you. Just a reminder that bunkers do exist for a reason and this meta will continue to require bunkers.

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vdAQJAqelUUhqrY9VwdLw6FLGGVYAMO7lY6ECbwYB+CLIA-TJBIwAAeAAg2fI8JAgYZAA

My build if people want to know how I counter them. Even counters cele ele.

Yeah a bunker Engineer, some of the best sustain in the game and tons of condition removals can probably easily kill a burn Guardian in a 1 vs 1.

SlayerSixx.5763:

Unless the guardian teleports from behind LOS, you have no excuse as to why you didn’t see that big blue burning man coming towards you. Or the subsequent fireball. Or the big blue burning circle. Or his incredibly slow GS animations. Or the fact that his entire bomb relies on one condition and you deserve to be dropped by conditions of you don’t have at least ONE condi cleanse on your bar/trait lines.

Then you might argue that they could jump in the middle of a team fight. There’s no way you could focus all of your efforts on avoiding him when there are at least 2 more guys trying to bash your head in….

Unless you realize that there are certain fights you shouldn’t stick around to fight when the outcome is soooo obvious. People assume thief is the only class that should skip out of bad encounters. I believe everyone, excluding that poor burn guard with 0 out of combat mobility, has no excuse as to why they stuck around to get rekt. I can’t even count how many times Ive seen someone pop rampage or lich and then the enemy just…idek wtf he was doing. Looked like he tried running but decided to stay and fight, then got slapped and then tried running again but was afraid his team mates would rage at him for running so he comes back and get slapped again. Then he cries about it on the forums. Learning to rotate isn’t a thief only requirement.

What does it matter if you see him coming towards you, you aren’t going to dodge his instant teleport unless he is terrible or you get extremely lucky with a prediction, burning isn’t the only condition weapon swapping every 10 seconds gives you 8 seconds of poison and 3 stacks of bleeding for 8 seconds, if he uses greatsword he gets vulnerability, 2 blinds with both swords. Most condition removals remove 3 or less.

abc.5790:

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

Try moving out of range when you’re immobilized/knocked down? Sure, that’s always worked wonderfully. 8k Whirling Wrath is easy to land if you want to.

That said, if you’re bringing downed health into it (which death logs usually do), then it is immensely misleading, since when you’re downed, you have no active defense, nor cleanse.

That said, death logs, especially with conditions, are terribly unhelpful for figuring out what really killed you. If you take hits doing the following:
6k direct, 1k burn
4k direct, 1.5k burn
4.5k direct, 900 burn
3k direct, 1k burn
6.5k direct
5k direct, 1k burn
2k direct, 1.3k burn
7k direct, 500 burn

Burning will be shown at the top of the list with 7.2k damage. So that was the deadly part, right? Well, no, since the 36k direct damage was definitely a much larger contributor. But since no individual skill on the direct damage beat out the total of burning, burning is shown as the highest damage.

I like how you get it.

That’s why I don’t trust death logs. It combines the condition damage received and posts them in its generic form, instead of listing the source of condition from skill used

i.e. 2300 zealots flame, 930 purging flames, 4300 ring of fire, 3100 drakes breath 900 burning speed, 600 fan of fire etc, It will add all those up and list it as 12130 Burning.

Then someone will qq on the forum and say nerf burning even though the damage came for 3 classes through 6 skills.

Yeah those 3k burning ticks from 1 person must be my imagination.

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

Retribution had a Grandmaster changed to make the Jallis elite also apply to condition damage and auto-proc at a health threshold.

“Instant” burning is 2-3 stacks. Everything else has a cast time associated with it. And 2-3 stacks of Burning is easy to survive.

Oh no, you might have to leave the point for a couple seconds when facing a trap Ranger or bomb kit engie (or longbow warrior, but those aren’t viable, right?). Better to let them get the decap and kill them than to have them kill you and get the point anyway. This is almost always the case.

Well they might as well be instant because 1/2 second or less isn’t something you can really dodge since they aren’t projectiles. Please tell me one burning skill that you can dodge that isn’t a field that takes the size of a point giving a guaranteed decap if you walk out of it, you also might even let them cap since they last so long, good luck if anyone is melee in your team because they won’t be able to help at all in the team fight. Only ones are the torch throws and Purging Flames crappy hand raise. Alright 50% condition damage reduction for taking a trait to go along with the physical automatically for 5 seconds, casting it takes your entire bar so it probably won’t be worth doing if you like damage and condition build is better anti conditions still unless they changed something else about it.

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

glaphen.5230:

D I V A.6018:

WuGzaGenius.5684:

i main necro, burn gaurds are my favorite snack.

If I run burn guard, the only think I really fear are necros. Even 2v1 I really try to avoid the coordinated ones, since they can kill me with 1 transfer in a critical moment.

I can not understand why people flame (pun intended) so much about burn builds.
Get good or equip condi remove.

Isn’t enough, how about you get good and use weapon swap conditions, only way 1 transfers gonna work is if they get lucky with Generosity or they are a Necromancer, though if you have Purging Flames you should not die to the first transfer anyways.

Funny thing: Purging Flames does nothing to help against transfers. The duration is set when the condition is first applied, and, short of cleanses, nothing can change that duration once it’s been set. Transfers use all of the characteristics of the original application, including altering damage ticks if the initial applicator gains or loses stacks of Might/Sigil of Corruption.

Uhh Purging Flames removes conditions too. Only transfers are Necromancers and one Mesmer skill, next is luck based Generosity sigil for 1 condition.

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

glaphen.5230:

Druids trait is kitten and Revenants only do that if they are a condition build themselves, they are the same as Necromancers. Invulnerability does not remove already applied conditions so a Guardian going invulnerable for 3 seconds while taking 3k burn ticks takes 9k and possibly dies, if he did it to protect against a Hundred Blades he took nothing. Zerker lasts double the duration but there is a trait to automatically proc Endure Pain too.

Revenants do it from Jallis and the Retribution line. Hardly a “condition build” thing. (note: wiki has not been updated with these changes from the last BWE)

Necros get that reduction for any kind of build. Necros in general apply a bunch of conditions, whether those are its damage source or not. It’s actually much more likely on Power builds because Death Magic has very little to offer Condition builds.

If the Guardian used Renewed Focus to prevent taking the hits that applied burning, he’d be cool. You’re basically saying that, because the Guardian went invulnerable after being hit with a Hundred Blades, he should be fine, because he went invulnerable. That is the exact thing you are suggesting should be the case by saying it should stop damage from conditions that were already applied.

So, a trait (requiring a situation you don’t want to be in) plus a utility skill to equal the single utility skill. And the condition defense is somehow weaker?

Because I haven’t said that sheer amount of instant burning that can be applied right? Only ones with any animation is Purging Flames and torch throws over all classes however little of an animation it may be and if you do it over a field you might as well have left it anyways since you decapped it anyways. You don’t need to take the utility to take the trait, best trait on the line anyways, even if you use a mace. Forgot about the crappy looking hammer whirl upkeep but that doesn’t look that good and there is nothing in Retribution, I’m talking about the resistance boon spam and condition transfer from the demon form.

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

Gabriell.4856:

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

Gabriell.4856:

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

That’s my point, those big condition hits? Not instant In fact, large stacks cannot come from instant effects. And if it’s not a big stack? You’re looking at a few hundred DPS from it. If you’re dying to less than 1k DPS, you’re a terrible PvP’er. Is the total amount high? It can be, but the actual DPS isn’t much. This is why people are more concerned with avoiding Maul over Locust Swarm, even though Locust Swarm actually does more total damage (not counting multipliers like Moment of Clarity or Opening Strike).

There are literally three things in the game that work on direct damage, but not conditions: Toughness, Protection, Weakness. Likewise, there are two things that apply to conditions, but not Power damage: cleansing and Resistance. Everything else can protect you equally well from both.

Clearly, you don’t want to listen. This isn’t a case of you just not knowing, it is being blatantly explained to you and you are still ignoring it.

Enjoy being stuck in low leagues.

So endure pain, stone heart, signet of stone, and similar abilities can equally protect me against conditions? And retal? Awesome. Totally going to use those vs condi build now.

Retaliation doesn’t protect you from anything, it just punishes those hitting you. Which, by the way, yes, that applies just as well to condition builds as Power.

You’re right, I did forget specific skills like Berserker Stance and Purging Flames or traits like Unholy Fervor and Diamond Skin.

Oh wait, looks like it’s balancing out again.

Last time I checked, only direct damage proc retal not condition damage so no to your first two sentence.

Condition damage is applied via hits, so yes, Retaliation affects condition builds the exact same way as Power builds. Retaliation only procs once on a Maul, it only procs once on a Feast of Corruption.

“There are literally three things in the game that work on direct damage, but not conditions: Toughness, Protection, Weakness. Likewise, there are two things that apply to conditions, but not Power damage: cleansing and Resistance. Everything else can protect you equally well from both.”

“You’re right, I did forget specific skills like Berserker Stance and Purging Flames or traits like Unholy Fervor and Diamond Skin.”

So don’t make blind statement like that when you know it’s not true.

Mistakes happen. For general purposes, what I said the first time is completely true. Outside of specific skills or traits, Toughness, Weakness, and Protection are the only things that affect direct damage, but not conditions. Likewise, cleanses and Resistance only affect conditions and not direct damage.

When you factor in specific skills and traits, things are still even. Every damage reduction (not immunity) trait is countered out by damage amplification traits (which don’t apply to conditions). Want to do immunities? Warrior has Defy Pain and Berserker Stance. The one protecting from conditions actually has double the uptime. Elementalist has a trait to make them immune to most condition builds (as the physical DPS is rarely enough to make it past their constant healing), but no similar protection from direct damage. Likewise, Ranger has Signet of Stone to protect against physical damage and nothing from conditions. Necros, and soon Revenants, Druids, and Scrappers, all have traits that reduce condition damage, which help even out traits that boost the damage of particular conditions.

Invulnerabilities protect you from everything a player can do. They do not help against hits you have already taken.

On the defense and prevention front, everything evens out.

Druids trait is kitten and Revenants only do that if they are a condition build themselves, they are the same as Necromancers. Invulnerability does not remove already applied conditions so a Guardian going invulnerable for 3 seconds while taking 3k burn ticks takes 9k and possibly dies, if he did it to protect against a Hundred Blades he took nothing. Zerker lasts double the duration but there is a trait to automatically proc Endure Pain too.

D I V A.6018:

WuGzaGenius.5684:

i main necro, burn gaurds are my favorite snack.

If I run burn guard, the only think I really fear are necros. Even 2v1 I really try to avoid the coordinated ones, since they can kill me with 1 transfer in a critical moment.

I can not understand why people flame (pun intended) so much about burn builds.
Get good or equip condi remove.

Isn’t enough, how about you get good and use weapon swap conditions, only way 1 transfers gonna work is if they get lucky with Generosity or they are a Necromancer, though if you have Purging Flames you should not die to the first transfer anyways.

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

Corrupter’s Fervor, sorry. Both traits never get used (though for Corrupter’s Fervor, it’s more to do with the overall weak state of Death Magic Master tier making it undesirable) and have similar names.

Endure Pain is also Warrior only. So what? Immunity skills of all types are not evenly distributed. Necros and thieves have none, for example Purging Flames both deals damage and helps you survive. There are a ton of skills that pull double-duty like that. Stone Heart is also effective against condition builds, as they usually have a number of on-crit procs.

The skills and traits that defend exlusively against condition damage without cleansing are pretty even with those that only deal with direct damage.

Pretty sure nothing has condition immunity skills besides Warrior unless you boon convert chill for a whole 2 seconds worth and Elementalist above 90% health. However there is a ton of physical damage reduction traits and skill, 20% reduction is the best you got from that trait and Scrappers.

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

Try moving out of range when you’re immobilized/knocked down? Sure, that’s always worked wonderfully. 8k Whirling Wrath is easy to land if you want to.

That said, if you’re bringing downed health into it (which death logs usually do), then it is immensely misleading, since when you’re downed, you have no active defense, nor cleanse.

That said, death logs, especially with conditions, are terribly unhelpful for figuring out what really killed you. If you take hits doing the following:
6k direct, 1k burn
4k direct, 1.5k burn
4.5k direct, 900 burn
3k direct, 1k burn
6.5k direct, 2k burn
5k direct, 1k burn
2k direct, 1.3k burn
7k direct, 500 burn

Burning will be shown at the top of the list with 9.2k damage. So that was the deadly part, right? Well, no, since the 36k direct damage was definitely a much larger contributor. But since no individual skill on the direct damage beat out the total of burning, burning is shown as the highest damage.

You can clearly see the 2nd is retaliation and 3rd is Shield of Wrath, 4th being the Rampage elites basic attack so there was an Engineer or Warrior physically hitting him at some point without burns. When you are alive it’s not much different, isn’t that much condition removal to bring unless you go pure shout bunker.

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

Gabriell.4856:

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

That’s my point, those big condition hits? Not instant In fact, large stacks cannot come from instant effects. And if it’s not a big stack? You’re looking at a few hundred DPS from it. If you’re dying to less than 1k DPS, you’re a terrible PvP’er. Is the total amount high? It can be, but the actual DPS isn’t much. This is why people are more concerned with avoiding Maul over Locust Swarm, even though Locust Swarm actually does more total damage (not counting multipliers like Moment of Clarity or Opening Strike).

There are literally three things in the game that work on direct damage, but not conditions: Toughness, Protection, Weakness. Likewise, there are two things that apply to conditions, but not Power damage: cleansing and Resistance. Everything else can protect you equally well from both.

Clearly, you don’t want to listen. This isn’t a case of you just not knowing, it is being blatantly explained to you and you are still ignoring it.

Enjoy being stuck in low leagues.

So endure pain, stone heart, signet of stone, and similar abilities can equally protect me against conditions? And retal? Awesome. Totally going to use those vs condi build now.

Retaliation doesn’t protect you from anything, it just punishes those hitting you. Which, by the way, yes, that applies just as well to condition builds as Power.

You’re right, I did forget specific skills like Berserker Stance and Purging Flames or traits like Unholy Fervor and Diamond Skin.

Oh wait, looks like it’s balancing out again.

Berserker only stops conditions before they are applied and has a 60 second cooldown on only Warrior, Purging Flames is the skill doing 10k damage to you at the same time, Diamond Skin is bunker Elementalist only and only works in 1 vs 1s any good. I don’t know why you mentioned Unholy Fervor.
Reduce recharge of axe skills. Axe skills deal increased damage to vulnerable foes.

Damage Damage Increase: 10%
Recharge Recharge Reduced: 20%

Zanther Deathbringer.4762:

princode.2750:

Anet keep repeating their mistake…apparently they dun understand the meaning of pvp. PVP = player versus player good example of ANET mistake the new pvp map stronghold is basically like who rush the gate/boss faster who win the game. WVW had also become more pve focus as well. Anet is slowly moving away from their core concept a MMO that is truly unique to a MMO that copy others to cater to a larger audience

And yet Courtyard, the map that is entirely 100% pvp based, is the most hated map of all.

Why do People are any map that isnt foefire? People hate courtyard, skyhammer, and spirit watch, because these maps require you to adapt. Those copy and paste meta builds from metabuilder are no longer the best builds, so the players who tend to be bad at pvp (95% of the playerbase) hate these maps.

Of course, I could be wrong in my opinion. However, the fact that people aren’t auto-voting courtyard every time it pops is just proof to my point. And my point being that these “pvp players” are not actual pvp players, and just want youtube guides to hand them wins like in PvE.

GW2 PvP is balanced around 5 vs 5 conquest, not 1 map of team death match released 2 years later.

Silv.9207:

TheAngryDuckling.5481:

All of these people trying to defend burning, afraid they will have to play something else. It doesn’t matter weather or not you think its easy to counter, a single condi being able to do http://imgur.com/a/htcVX that isnt balanced.

I really Love to see people try to argument they’re problem to kill burn builds (expecially guardians) posting images where they suffered by 60-80k of burn damage.

But that’s the proof that Burn IS NOT OP.

The reason?
How can a OP damage need to deal 60-80k of damage to you to kill you? How much time a guardian to stack enough burn and make it last to deal that 60-80k of damage???
If a guardian will stack on you 9 stack of burn and keep it on you (barely impossible for more than 4 seconds why skills recharge and condi cleans), the guardian need literally 20-30 seconds to deal all that damage.
But frequently the damage have a “burst” of 12-15 and then fall down to 3-6 (if the enemy let you stack and mantain burn), making your damage fall down.

Then, if you are a Warrior (that can use berserker stance to be immune to conditions for 8-10 sec) survived all that burn damage, how long that “OP Burn” needed to take you down, adding that you was in teamfight and there will be other conditions and direct damage sources that dealt damage to you?

I can say that the guardian dps is “OP” when I see that with the GS skill 2 dealt me 8k, plus another 3k by skill 3, some xK by 4 and 5, killing my berserker pg in 3-4 seconds with a insane burst (is really funny when I kill zerk thiefs in that way with my dps guardian). That’s why I’m been killed in 4 seconds with 14-16k of damage burst hard to evade (GS skill 5 is the best to kill noobs).

But if I recive 60-80k of Burn damage plus a large amount of direct and other condi damage before I fall, that’s not to call OP, because to kill you I needed to deal you 60k of damage, making me take a lot of time to kill you, a really big amount of time.

Seriously: don’t post stupid images of “OP Burn Damage” why all that is only a proof that Burn is not enough strong to kill you fast like you sayd.

Seriously: if to kill a warrior you need 60k of burn (counting that almost all warriors use Berserk Stance and have a lot of condi removal by skills or traits) is like you need to kill him 3-5 times before he drop downed at your feets.

And that all don’t seems to me to be “OP”.

Guardian burn is only good to kill noobs in unranked.

If you want to kill good players with burn you have to be really skilled and know all the enemy condi clean, timing and evade they’re damage skills to survive enough to kill them with condition damage.

I’m pretty sure death log includes downed damage taken and you severely overestimate the skill required to play a condition build. It’s pretty hard to take 8k from Whirling Wrath, try not going AFK inside him next time, as people tell me burn Guardian has no mobility so surely a physical has the exact same with the same weapons but the burn Guardian is already doing his 3k damage ticks the moment he Judge’s to you and now you need to clear burn out of 3-5 conditions or you die.

Gabriell.4856:

glaphen.5230:

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

That’s my point, those big condition hits? Not instant In fact, large stacks cannot come from instant effects. And if it’s not a big stack? You’re looking at a few hundred DPS from it. If you’re dying to less than 1k DPS, you’re a terrible PvP’er. Is the total amount high? It can be, but the actual DPS isn’t much. This is why people are more concerned with avoiding Maul over Locust Swarm, even though Locust Swarm actually does more total damage (not counting multipliers like Moment of Clarity or Opening Strike).

There are literally three things in the game that work on direct damage, but not conditions: Toughness, Protection, Weakness. Likewise, there are two things that apply to conditions, but not Power damage: cleansing and Resistance. Everything else can protect you equally well from both.

Clearly, you don’t want to listen. This isn’t a case of you just not knowing, it is being blatantly explained to you and you are still ignoring it.

Enjoy being stuck in low leagues.

Name one kittening condition skill with over 1 second cast time besides channels, hell name one with 1. I win most of my games as usual, skill>build.

Spinal Shivers.

Well maybe with that reaper trait it could be a damaging condition but that only real one is Epidemic at 1 second, which is probably the most dangerous skill in the game. Only others is one staff Elementalist skill but that makes a really dumb condition weapon and main hand scepter basic attacks with fire and earth that are probably the worst basic attacks in the game and their only conditions.

lvis.3824:

The best would be to make conditions also affected by crit ( aand ofc. be balanced around this ).

That way ppl that decide to run condition builds are either forced to also lose the toughness / vitality or they do less dmg .

Right now the balance between defense and offense for condition builds is way off compared to power /zerker builds.-

Rabid already gives 1,200 condition damage, 900 crit, 900 toughness.