Thieves are so desperate to protect a broken class mechanic
that regard everyone in this match as bad players.Here is condi version example:
https://youtu.be/qbZwzep673oI bet thieves will say these people are bad players also.
You can say so again and again.
How handy?
Let’s see how many people you can make bad players.
Uhh half of those fights had people keyboard turning, 1 vs 2/3s against projectile shooting people who keep attacking during Dagger Storm. All of them are off point besides the keyboard turning rampage Warrior he still almost died to.
Nerf it to useless plz
Wish was granted over 3 years ago. Thief condition builds are kitten.
I’ll just echo what most people have said – Chrono is mostly a sidegrade, F5 is a slight upgrade.
There are huge tradeoffs when building a mesmer in traitlines and skill slots.
These idealised combos are practically useless in real play, because you don’t play mesmer by skill rotations, and selecting all of these supposed “god mode skills” and executing a related “rotation” really achieves absolutely kitten all.
Yeah you can use mimic, F5 and pop invulns, but that’s just stupid in practice. Nevermind that channeled skills with duration like blurred frenzy and shield block are actually not a good idea to use in CSplit – because if you overstep the Csplit duration the skill goes on full cooldown making it a total waste. The only invulns worth using in Csplit are Distortion and precog well.
Hence most players still take Blink, Decoy, Portal or MoD, Torch, Moa or mass invis and so on.
As for bunker mesmers (chaos/insp/chrono, defensive amulet) well they pose zero offensive threat and I don’t see a problem with mesmers being able to play a bunker role if they choose to – even then they’re not the best class choice for it.
When did I ever say to use anything but Mimic with Well of Precognition for the invulnerability, 2 utilities, 12 seconds of invulnerability for your team, 12 seconds of alacrity, 120 endurance. Then you also get to reset your godly elites because they thought Mesmer elites weren’t game changing enough, need them to have double the usage.
You mean 3 illusions out, F5 mimic precog precog F5 mimic precog precog.
I’ve personally not run into anyone pulling that combo let alone for the max 12 second duration providing you don’t overlap the precog casts, and tbh it’s a gimmick.
What do you take as the third utility? Blink, Portal, condi cleanse, another well, null field, a signet, Decoy, mantra of distraction…?
Where’s the other Distortion share coming from? Inspiring Distortion in Inspiration? That’s 1 second aoe.
Anyway it seems your irritation is directed at F5? Because I honestly believe that apart from F5 the rest of Chrono and mesmer in general is fine other than very minor tweaks. I do agree that F5 can be too powerful, so there will probably be some limitations put in place in the future – like skill number, Split duration, what you can/can’t cast in Split and so on.
You only need 2-3 clone shatter, hell 1 clone would work if you want to shave a second or so off the invulnerability. When did I say a Distortion share, 3rd utility is whatever you want. Yes it’s brokenly powerful, as I said earlier it needs to not cooldown reset at all or not work on any CC or team support abilities. At the very least not work on anything with greater or equal cooldown to Continuum.
Yeah Thief currently has less possible evades than the first 2 years of the game when we had Feline Reflexes giving 15 endurance back per 50 point dodge making them only cost 35. Shortbow also lasted .75 seconds and was nerfed to .5 with the same animation. Vault costs more than the rest of the evades with the same duration but longer animation.
I’ll just echo what most people have said – Chrono is mostly a sidegrade, F5 is a slight upgrade.
There are huge tradeoffs when building a mesmer in traitlines and skill slots.
These idealised combos are practically useless in real play, because you don’t play mesmer by skill rotations, and selecting all of these supposed “god mode skills” and executing a related “rotation” really achieves absolutely kitten all.
Yeah you can use mimic, F5 and pop invulns, but that’s just stupid in practice. Nevermind that channeled skills with duration like blurred frenzy and shield block are actually not a good idea to use in CSplit – because if you overstep the Csplit duration the skill goes on full cooldown making it a total waste. The only invulns worth using in Csplit are Distortion and precog well.
Hence most players still take Blink, Decoy, Portal or MoD, Torch, Moa or mass invis and so on.
As for bunker mesmers (chaos/insp/chrono, defensive amulet) well they pose zero offensive threat and I don’t see a problem with mesmers being able to play a bunker role if they choose to – even then they’re not the best class choice for it.
When did I ever say to use anything but Mimic with Well of Precognition for the invulnerability, 2 utilities, 12 seconds of invulnerability for your team, 12 seconds of alacrity, 120 endurance. Then you also get to reset your godly elites because they thought Mesmer elites weren’t game changing enough, need them to have double the usage.
Ok, mb you are right. Just show me vid (yeah vid, not forum speculation) with such type of mesmer at competitive play. There are should be bunch of them if you are right?
I don’t watch nor care about this games dead Esports. Most of the good players left 2 years ago. Can’t even get enough teams for their current big prize pool tourney. I seriously wonder if any good players are left in unranked high MMR because I tire of every game being a 3 point kitten fest. Woo just won that point with 4 people at far with our home capped, better all 4 of us leave it as they respawn.
As I alrady said you EITHER use your precious distortion/wells, etc and port away through the portal at the end (or teammate inc ib best case) against competent player, OR die.
This theory war can b e endless. Just post some competitive video with such chrono – it would be best fact evidence. I can post you vids with DH, scrappers, druids, etc doing good at competitive play for example.
As I kittening said when do you kittening get intercepted going between points to a team fight. If you somehow die with a Mesmers basic defensive skills in the short distance I have nothing more to say since that person would be legally declared brain dead soon after.
They don’t have mobility in this case outside of portal. 25% ms will not help you. Yeah, dodges, distortion,.. only for wait of teammates help or portal cower. Cause low sustain and right applied damage would force such mesmer run away. Like other classes don’t have dodges, traits, invulns/evades, stealth, unblocable skill?
For sake not to start theory war – take such crono and go ESL. Then post your results as evidence (mb you will be succesfull, idk).
As I said I don’t know when you ever get intercepted going to a team fight in the first place but if it ever did happen and you somehow die going the short distance between points with all those defensive skill, get good. Once you are in the fight you simply Continuum→Mimic→Well of Precognition→elite→whatever you want for 2-3 seconds→Well of Precognition→Continuum ends→Mimic, use Well of Precognition any time in 10 seconds, and use the 45 second cooldown normal version once or twice before Continuum is back up. If you do that all your other basic defenses should be up again anyways besides maybe Distortion.
This combo requires only Mimic and Well of Precognition, elites are broken automatically since you need to take one unless you take Mass Invisibility for some reason. Rangers require 2 slots for 12 seconds of personal invulnerability and if your pet dies it’s less while they don’t give their allies endurance and alacrity.
The you have no spot for blink and decoy (cause portal is a must have). So if crono is intercepted between points he is gonna either waste all CD’s and run through portal/wait for help, or die. Btw DD melts such cronos.
As if you don’t still have Blurred Frenzy, Distortion, Echo of Memory, 2 dodges, traits, whatever 2nd weapon you want and 25% movement speed plus movement impairment decrease. Though I don’t really know when you ever get intercepted between points while walking to a team fight.
It is already stated by top mesmer users that mesmer blocks not shines in competitive play, due bunch of unblockable skills (revenant, dh, eng, necro,..).
To carry “12 seconds of invulnerability, alacrity and 120 endurance every 90 seconds”
mesmer need to trade self sustaining utility skills/traits.
Chrono is definitely is better then core mesmer, but fades relatively other elites. Mesmer was more competitive be HoT (almost every thief said that they aren’t hard counter to mesmer anymore).
Yeah, chrono theoretically is very good uprgade, but right now only theoretically. Mb it will change (ppl goes from standard shatter to more bunkerish, change tactics).
This combo requires only Mimic and Well of Precognition, elites are broken automatically since you need to take one unless you take Mass Invisibility for some reason. Rangers require 2 slots for 12 seconds of personal invulnerability and if your pet dies it’s less while they don’t give their allies endurance and alacrity.
Glaphen you play a bunker thief that throws every game so im taking your opinion with a grain (more than a grain a gram) of salt. Again you are describing the ideal situtuation, which GOOD chronos can pull off MAYBE once every game or 2. Try playing a zerk spec before you start BMing mesmers.
Chrono in this meta is the the rampage warrior of the last meta while regular mesmers still fufill that stealth burst +1 role
How is this ideal, 2-3 clone shatter and you give away 12 seconds of invulnerability, alacrity and 120 endurance. Also get double Time Warp or double Gravity Well, none of this requires skill to pull off, it’s simply pressing Continuum and casting. And I’m still winning most of my games as usual so kitten off.
Because taking chrono absoluly destroys ones defensive capabilities. Lacking PU, chronos drop near instantaniously with any coordinated focus fire. Look at the AG weeklys or ESLs if you dont belive me on this point. And yes, this is assuming they take the metabattle shatter spec. Chrono offers more damage, but not enough damage to give up dom or duel, it offers less sustain as you are forced to give up illusions or chaos. Because 99% of mesmers sustain comes from traits, you are making a trade to take a more damage oriented build unlike other specs that get huge benefits with little to no losses.
Please dont tell me about the perma block or evade on chrono,
Bf roots you in place and as such is a death sentence against competent opponents, distortion is almost always a 1-2sec invlun not a 4sec, and the shield block is max 4 1/2 sec on a 30sec cd. Not to mention ZERO condi clense
Lol maybe the Chronomancers need to get good if they lose survivability with a trait line that lowers the cooldowns of all their defensive skills and it’s possible to give 12 seconds of AoE invulnerability, alacrity and 120 endurance every 90 seconds. I mean kittening Continuum is already defensive giving you invulnerability itself by resetting your health even if you die during it. Let’s not forget shield giving 4 seconds of blocking and an amazing AoE stun.
Chrono is nowhere near the 3rd best spec. In competetive play it is borderline viable at best, and requires a coordinated team for peels and counter pressure. In solo q I have found chrono to go both ways, depending on the enemy comp. I would agree with the statement that Chrono is in a fairly good spot with regaurd to the ideal balance; rather than being a blatant upgrade it accomplishes its own playstyle outside pf a few traits. The gap between chrono and mesmer is actually one of the smallest in elite specs vs normal specs
How is Chronomancer not a blatant upgrade. I would say it’s the class that improves the most from taking the elite.
“Chronomancer is good” ~ Spoken by non-Mes/Chrono players.
Chronomancer is good at what, exactly?
OP, if you want a decent discussion on Mes, go to the Mes forum. Or stay in the PvP forum and get every pro warrior/thiefs opinion -_-u
At winning team fights. Or is 11 seconds of quickness and pulsing slow to anyone inside the 50% bigger than a point bubble twice per 180 seconds balanced to you. Maybe the 6 seconds of AoE CC that removes 6 stacks of stability plus 2-4 seconds of shield fits your taste more. How about 12 seconds of invulnerability, and 120 endurance to your allies every 90 seconds. Don’t forget to lower these cooldowns by Alacrity.
Chronomancer is broken as hell, tired of them tossing around Time Warps and Gravity Wells making them win a team fight practically guaranteed. Why is it that they can reset skills with a longer cooldown than their reset. Needs to not reset cooldowns at all or not work with any CC or team support abilities. At the very least anything with equal or great cooldown.
Alright you dodged it, now you are down 1 dodge and he still has multiple seconds of stealth to hit you.
I’m a bit baffled as you’re a thief main – are you serious or trolling me?
A dodge usually gets you away from the thief so he has to catch up = losing time. If you know the stealth pattern (what i explained above) you’ll know when he’ll approximately hit you – if he will need to be stealthed for a longer time, that one dodge destroys his chance to BS you.
Yes I suppose I’m forgetting about WvW where you can run away in one direction, but in SPvP you can’t do that.
Alright so now you know that he is stealthed, what do, you can’t dodge it and if you do he doesn’t lose stealth, most you can do against it is turn rapidly and hope it hits your face.
I’ll remember that for the next time my buddy dodges my backstab “YO YOU CAN’T DO THAT HACKS!!”
Alright you dodged it, now you are down 1 dodge and he still has multiple seconds of stealth to hit you.
Unlike other really heavy hitting skills, backstab doesn’t have a telegraph – it, in fact, can have literally 0 telegraph. Without any counterplay or even the ability to dodge it, it necessarily can only hit so hard before becoming a really toxic skill.
I agree that it doesn’t exactly scare opponents that have put in some effort to tank up, but I’d be really wary of pushing it any further due to how it performs in Bronzodia; I’d rather see power elsewhere in the kit, if it is needed.
A dagger main thief going into stealth is not enough telegraphed for you? I would say that nackstab is the most telegraphed attack in the game.
Alright so now you know that he is stealthed, what do, you can’t dodge it and if you do he doesn’t lose stealth, most you can do against it is turn rapidly and hope it hits your face.
I’m not saying rev is broken. I’ve killed them plenty. but just then being traited and having a shield gives them two extra 4k+ heals with invulnerability. That’s alot of tank to go around.
When did people stop using unblockable attacks?
Since barely any classes has a viable unblockable skill. Besides DH having 3 new ones, only Necro horn or Basilisk Venom that is saved is any viable of a CC.
You’re wrong actually.
5 classes have a viable build that uses unblockable attacks.
You play enough pvp right glaph, I’m very confident you know exactly what they are correct?
Go ahead and list them for us.http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Unblockable
Please tell me because I already listed them, unblockable attacks are useless unless they are at extremely low health, only unblockable CC matters. Slick Shoes won’t work on it if they aren’t moving. I don’t think Mesmers use focus anymore and Engineers don’t use shields. I guess if a Engineer gets unlucky and rolls Tornado. Trap Rangers aren’t really meta nor are they going to get a Revenant low if they save them.Trap ranger’s aren’t meta, though I also didn’t mention meta did I? I mentioned viable. and trapper ranger though not meta is still viable and a direct counter to Rev.
Don’t know how you managed to not kill a rev with a trapper rangerCondi-engi is also a counter, cause condies. And most engies that run a condi varient use shield. and magnet pull
(actually doesn’t the current meta scrapper use toolkit?)D/P thieves is still meta ( since we are bringing up meta). Shadow shot hits for around 3-4k on crit. It’s spammable ( or near) combined with BV ( funny you think that interrupting a block from a rev is a waste) counter’s the block also.
Mesmer has GS which is in every (almost every) shatter build, which does around 3k from bouncing.
Then you did mention DH traps, which when placed on top of Crystal Hibernation is a near death sentence.
Then we have necro horn AND marks.
A trap ranger saving his unblockable trap for knocking a Revenant out of his block is pretty much useless since Rangers have kitten condition application without them. Condition builds counter everything in 1 vs 1s, I probably have the build with the most condition removal available and still die to them fast. Only blinding projectile is unblockable on Shadow Shot, not the melee attack. So Mesmers can cancel the heal portion of the block if they crit with a damage build. Yes DH counter Revenant block spam but Revenant has tons of stability and evades and can heal from the traps. Necro horn as I said does counter it and I don’t see the unblockable marks trait worth taking over the other 2 especially as a Reaper.
I disagree with saving, since by the time a rev is going touse his shield he is either near death and the trap is back up Or dead from burning
I guess I haven’t noticed the shadowshot deal because I use basivenom + on blocking targets to continue DPS pressure.
A revenant doesn’t have tons of stability, two seconds on dodge which happens twice OR Jalis.You could argue that shiro has an evade that also gives endurance. But why would you need stability then if you are using shiro? since the evade is also a stun break?
And if you are using shiro. The better traiting option is Devastation since it adds more overall dps and hps.
If we are talking Jalis.
LOL jalis.
That legend is subpar compared to herald, and no one is going to give up Shiro over Jalis, because Shiro performs better..
But I;m off topic with that discussion.
Stability on a rev is entirely situational, either they have jalis equipped which is ….well….not really competitive. OR they have retribution traited, with a stability that last for all of 2s. Giving up hps and dps for a subpar dodge roll trait that will only help you 20% of the time.As for necro trait’s.
To each his own.
I don’t see the point of movement speed in shroud when you can chill constantly as a reaper.
Vuln stacking I could understand, increase in DPS is an increase.
But for marks to generate life force to me is better, because that means more reapershroud, which means more slashy slash
What’s wrong with the Jalis trait line, 2 seconds of stability per dodge roll, permanent vigor without a boon plus if any ally gives you the boon, Weakness spam with weaker weakness against you or 3 second taunt plus protection on CC every 45 seconds, 20% damage reduction and either 100 HPS or 50% damage reduction randomly for your team every 45 seconds. All you get from Invocation is a stun break if your form change is ready but then you can just switch to Shiro or are in it anyways and 20% crit chance and 7% damage.
(edited by glaphen.5230)
Honestly I’ve thought shared basilisk was bugged because I’ve never seen it work. And most classes don’t need the other venoms… chill, stun, and poison are built in. The new finisher is the only saving grace but it has to be timed perfectly or it fails… it actually takes as long as a regular finish. Staff won’t get needed it’s still the weakest weapon a thief has access to. 3 dodges seems to be an improvement… however 2 out of 3 will force you out of stealth which is most thieves way of getting out of a fight and the third one has a pause where your evade has passed but you’re not able to use anything else yet. A good hammer swing and game over. I played as a dragon hunter for 30 minutes and it took 2 or 3 of any class to take me out with me having zero idea what I was doing.
Impact Strike is way better than normal finisher, normal casts in 3.5 seconds this casts in like 2.5-2.75 seconds and you can move without an obvious animation. It also knocks them up so they can’t use their downed abilities and if you kill them with the 3rd attack they don’t even get downed.
Almost all classes have traits and abilities that instantly remove or reduce chill specifically. Daredevils can remove chill on evade, etc.
Uhh they work on any movement impairment and as I said in the other thread they aren’t worth taking on anything but Elementalist possibly, DD is pretty much immune to movement impairments with the mobility dodge and Chrono gets 25% from a minor.
I’m not saying rev is broken. I’ve killed them plenty. but just then being traited and having a shield gives them two extra 4k+ heals with invulnerability. That’s alot of tank to go around.
When did people stop using unblockable attacks?
Since barely any classes has a viable unblockable skill. Besides DH having 3 new ones, only Necro horn or Basilisk Venom that is saved is any viable of a CC.
You’re wrong actually.
5 classes have a viable build that uses unblockable attacks.
You play enough pvp right glaph, I’m very confident you know exactly what they are correct?
Go ahead and list them for us.http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Unblockable
Please tell me because I already listed them, unblockable attacks are useless unless they are at extremely low health, only unblockable CC matters. Slick Shoes won’t work on it if they aren’t moving. I don’t think Mesmers use focus anymore and Engineers don’t use shields. I guess if a Engineer gets unlucky and rolls Tornado. Trap Rangers aren’t really meta nor are they going to get a Revenant low if they save them.Trap ranger’s aren’t meta, though I also didn’t mention meta did I? I mentioned viable. and trapper ranger though not meta is still viable and a direct counter to Rev.
Don’t know how you managed to not kill a rev with a trapper rangerCondi-engi is also a counter, cause condies. And most engies that run a condi varient use shield. and magnet pull
(actually doesn’t the current meta scrapper use toolkit?)D/P thieves is still meta ( since we are bringing up meta). Shadow shot hits for around 3-4k on crit. It’s spammable ( or near) combined with BV ( funny you think that interrupting a block from a rev is a waste) counter’s the block also.
Mesmer has GS which is in every (almost every) shatter build, which does around 3k from bouncing.
Then you did mention DH traps, which when placed on top of Crystal Hibernation is a near death sentence.
Then we have necro horn AND marks.
A trap ranger saving his unblockable trap for knocking a Revenant out of his block is pretty much useless since Rangers have kitten condition application without them. Condition builds counter everything in 1 vs 1s, I probably have the build with the most condition removal available and still die to them fast. Only blinding projectile is unblockable on Shadow Shot, not the melee attack. So Mesmers can cancel the heal portion of the block if they crit with a damage build. Yes DH counter Revenant block spam but Revenant has tons of stability and evades and can heal from the traps. Necro horn as I said does counter it and I don’t see the unblockable marks trait worth taking over the other 2 especially as a Reaper.
I’m not saying rev is broken. I’ve killed them plenty. but just then being traited and having a shield gives them two extra 4k+ heals with invulnerability. That’s alot of tank to go around.
When did people stop using unblockable attacks?
Since barely any classes has a viable unblockable skill. Besides DH having 3 new ones, only Necro horn or Basilisk Venom that is saved is any viable of a CC.
You’re wrong actually.
5 classes have a viable build that uses unblockable attacks.
You play enough pvp right glaph, I’m very confident you know exactly what they are correct?
Go ahead and list them for us.
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Unblockable
Please tell me because I already listed them, unblockable attacks are useless unless they are at extremely low health, only unblockable CC matters. Slick Shoes won’t work on it if they aren’t moving. I don’t think Mesmers use focus anymore and Engineers don’t use shields. I guess if a Engineer gets unlucky and rolls Tornado. Trap Rangers aren’t really meta nor are they going to get a Revenant low if they save them.
I’m sure it has been answered, but I’m lazy so I’ll just repeat what I’m sure has been said.
Chill doesn’t stack and generally has less application. Necromancer’s burn is died to 1 move while in shroud only. A Necromancer’s Chill damage will out-damage their burning potential easily, but it still can never spike or overwhelm someone in the same manner as burning, simply because it does not stack in intensity. It’s basically old burning 2.0.
Problem is old burning didn’t have vulnerability and 66% movement and cooldown reduction and was nerfed when they had less than 50% uptime of it. Plus they get new burning spammed on every fast basic attack.
So if a Reaper throws everything at keeping you chilled, from gear to traits, they have a lot of chill access. Are you throwing your entire build at countering condis/chilled? If not, then it’s a vulnerability in your build, and you’ll have to outplay it. If so, and you’re still having a lot of trouble, then the plot thickens.
Personally, I’m running Melandru + Relentless Pursuit on my Power Reaper for -58% chill duration outside of shroud, -91% chilled duration inside shroud. I also tend to bring 2x condi clearing utilities at a minimum, and I’m traited with Shrouded Removal to help keep condis at a minimum.
If you kite a Reaper while in shroud, the Reaper can’t apply Chill to you at all. Try to time your clear when the Reaper hits Shroud, and you buy some breathing room. When the Reaper leaves Shroud, odds are (s)he is going to try to re-apply chill, so prime your dodge for the Chilblains. Spinal Shivers is probably not going to happen since it requires Focus OH, so from a weapons perspective, you’re really just looking out for weapon swaps, Chilblains, Chilled to the Bone, and Reaper’s Mark.
Get a feel for it and I bet you can manage. Also keep in mind that it shouldn’t be easy to fight. No class should be easy to fight.
Sure thing let me just go base my entire build around countering one condition that only does damage on one class with one trait.
I’m not saying rev is broken. I’ve killed them plenty. but just then being traited and having a shield gives them two extra 4k+ heals with invulnerability. That’s alot of tank to go around.
When did people stop using unblockable attacks?
Since barely any classes has a viable unblockable skill. Besides DH having 3 new ones, only Necro horn or Basilisk Venom that is saved is any viable of a CC.
Thought this was about WvW, forgot about Alterac Valley mini. Been a problem in WvW since forever but they don’t give a kitten.
Its not true, I encountered teams with 2 DH while I was solo there and we won many times, It’s about ppl who knows their and opponent classes.
One cannot simply charge to DH while there are 2 of them there.
Play smart, stop charging into your death.
That’s really nice coming from a DH.
but wait, nerf something that is so easly to counter cause you either a ) walk straight up in traps, b ) don’t run stab, c ) don’t bait his traps with something, or d ) all of the above.
smh
Stability does not counter traps unless you have an instant cast one inside Maw but you still took a ton of damage. Precasted stability stacks will get torn to shreds by the daze spam, and how do you bait traps.
Ventari’s Tablet… It’s aoe regen has a 240 radius.
….I don’t have words for something that bad.
And the Salvation trait line, is all “to allies”
…I’m using cleric stuff, doly runes, and glint’s regen, and it kinda feels like I don’t even have a heal. Taking the whole healing traitline for almost no benefit to my own heals? That don’t seem right.
Secret to that form is to take the Natural Abundance trait, just spam the tablet moving to make fragments, then whenever you have 35 use the elite and remake the tablet. Unfortunately it requires your allies to move onto them to actually have good healing but same with the staff basic attack.
Yes I said zerkers, Shatters from long range with what clone generating skills, or are you going melee and lose the GS damage.
Have you ever played Mesmer or you’re trolling? Anyway Gnite.
Have you? They have 3,396 health and the Mesmers toughness, Smokescale has like 23k health and high toughness. Only clones you got is once every 8 seconds and the Phantasm if it survives till it walks over so a 2 clone shatter with just GS.
My god you are kittened. How do you write this much and refuse to do the simple thing of going on to your main class and testing it yourself. It’s .9 per cast because it’s .3 per pulse, kitten off if you refuse to test something used in other abilities too. Just because something was nerfed once does not make it balanced. Daze isn’t their only CC and again only the CA3 has a cast time but it also casts multiple times and heals. Even if you predict it (which isn’t a valid argument) everyone on the team has to do the same and still all dodge CA3 2-3 times while still being hit by other dazes and CC from the Druid/pet and suffer immobilize spam from CA5/any AoE daze combined with an AoE hit.
If you can provide the calculations, please do so. I am interested to know why Druid staff damage works differently than every other damage source in the game. Otherwise, I am done with you. Your main argument is that you want Druids to be nerfed so they aren’t a challenge for your team, and you refuse to use any skillful play to counter abilities.
It’s basic GW2 logic, if it says (number x) then the damage calculation is already done where number is the max amount of hits of the skill and the damage if all hits hit. If it doesn’t say that and hits multiple times then that is the damage of each hit. Mesmer greatsword clearly says (3x) http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Spatial_Surge. http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Solar_Beam this doesn’t so you multiply what you see by the pulses. http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Unrelenting_Assault This skill hits 7 times for 202 with .715 scaling per hit. http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Path_of_Scars This hits twice for 235 with 1.2 scaling per hit. http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Vapor_Blade This skill hits two times for 121 with .3305 scaling per hit. http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Blurred_Frenzy This skill does 880 damage over 8 hits with 2.4 scaling over 8 hits. http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Hundred_Blades This skill does 1571 over 8 hits with 4.21 scaling over 8 hits and finishes with a 410 hit with 1.1 scaling.
Thank you for providing numbers (no formulas), but you are still mistaken. Guild Wars 2 math logic follows the same rules as other math logic. I have provided you the formula for base damage according to the Guild Wars 2 wiki and shown you the calculations. The power multiplier does not scale with the number of hits according to the equation off of which in-game Guild Wars 2 damage is based. There is nothing more I can do for you here.
Are you serious just go kittening test it in game already, tired of dealing with you. Go kill a dummy with zerker Druid staff and Mesmer GS basic attacks, see which kills it first.
I dare you to use all Druid “attacks” and all Mesmer attacks, and post again who killed Dummy first ;-)
Alright let’s add in pets too, don’t forget to add in AoE spam so the zerkers die instantly with 1 attack off at most. Wisp spam is a damage increase too.
Sure, don’t forget to count damage from Phantasm and Shatters…
Yes I said zerkers, Shatters from long range with what clone generating skills, or are you going melee and lose the GS damage.
My god you are kittened. How do you write this much and refuse to do the simple thing of going on to your main class and testing it yourself. It’s .9 per cast because it’s .3 per pulse, kitten off if you refuse to test something used in other abilities too. Just because something was nerfed once does not make it balanced. Daze isn’t their only CC and again only the CA3 has a cast time but it also casts multiple times and heals. Even if you predict it (which isn’t a valid argument) everyone on the team has to do the same and still all dodge CA3 2-3 times while still being hit by other dazes and CC from the Druid/pet and suffer immobilize spam from CA5/any AoE daze combined with an AoE hit.
If you can provide the calculations, please do so. I am interested to know why Druid staff damage works differently than every other damage source in the game. Otherwise, I am done with you. Your main argument is that you want Druids to be nerfed so they aren’t a challenge for your team, and you refuse to use any skillful play to counter abilities.
It’s basic GW2 logic, if it says (number x) then the damage calculation is already done where number is the max amount of hits of the skill and the damage if all hits hit. If it doesn’t say that and hits multiple times then that is the damage of each hit. Mesmer greatsword clearly says (3x) http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Spatial_Surge. http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Solar_Beam this doesn’t so you multiply what you see by the pulses. http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Unrelenting_Assault This skill hits 7 times for 202 with .715 scaling per hit. http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Path_of_Scars This hits twice for 235 with 1.2 scaling per hit. http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Vapor_Blade This skill hits two times for 121 with .3305 scaling per hit. http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Blurred_Frenzy This skill does 880 damage over 8 hits with 2.4 scaling over 8 hits. http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Hundred_Blades This skill does 1571 over 8 hits with 4.21 scaling over 8 hits and finishes with a 410 hit with 1.1 scaling.
Thank you for providing numbers (no formulas), but you are still mistaken. Guild Wars 2 math logic follows the same rules as other math logic. I have provided you the formula for base damage according to the Guild Wars 2 wiki and shown you the calculations. The power multiplier does not scale with the number of hits according to the equation off of which in-game Guild Wars 2 damage is based. There is nothing more I can do for you here.
Are you serious just go kittening test it in game already, tired of dealing with you. Go kill a dummy with zerker Druid staff and Mesmer GS basic attacks, see which kills it first.
I dare you to use all Druid “attacks” and all Mesmer attacks, and post again who killed Dummy first ;-)
Alright let’s add in pets too, don’t forget to add in AoE spam so the zerkers die instantly with 1 attack off at most. Wisp spam is a damage increase too.
My god you are kittened. How do you write this much and refuse to do the simple thing of going on to your main class and testing it yourself. It’s .9 per cast because it’s .3 per pulse, kitten off if you refuse to test something used in other abilities too. Just because something was nerfed once does not make it balanced. Daze isn’t their only CC and again only the CA3 has a cast time but it also casts multiple times and heals. Even if you predict it (which isn’t a valid argument) everyone on the team has to do the same and still all dodge CA3 2-3 times while still being hit by other dazes and CC from the Druid/pet and suffer immobilize spam from CA5/any AoE daze combined with an AoE hit.
If you can provide the calculations, please do so. I am interested to know why Druid staff damage works differently than every other damage source in the game. Otherwise, I am done with you. Your main argument is that you want Druids to be nerfed so they aren’t a challenge for your team, and you refuse to use any skillful play to counter abilities.
It’s basic GW2 logic, if it says (number x) then the damage calculation is already done where number is the max amount of hits of the skill and the damage if all hits hit. If it doesn’t say that and hits multiple times then that is the damage of each hit. Mesmer greatsword clearly says (3x) http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Spatial_Surge. http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Solar_Beam this doesn’t so you multiply what you see by the pulses. http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Unrelenting_Assault This skill hits 7 times for 202 with .715 scaling per hit. http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Path_of_Scars This hits twice for 235 with 1.2 scaling per hit. http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Vapor_Blade This skill hits two times for 121 with .3305 scaling per hit. http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Blurred_Frenzy This skill does 880 damage over 8 hits with 2.4 scaling over 8 hits. http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Hundred_Blades This skill does 1571 over 8 hits with 4.21 scaling over 8 hits and finishes with a 410 hit with 1.1 scaling.
Thank you for providing numbers (no formulas), but you are still mistaken. Guild Wars 2 math logic follows the same rules as other math logic. I have provided you the formula for base damage according to the Guild Wars 2 wiki and shown you the calculations. The power multiplier does not scale with the number of hits according to the equation off of which in-game Guild Wars 2 damage is based. There is nothing more I can do for you here.
Are you serious just go kittening test it in game already, tired of dealing with you. Go kill a dummy with zerker Druid staff and Mesmer GS basic attacks, see which kills it first.
I didn’t see an increase so I assumed it didn’t stack. Furious scales better anyways with Berserk.
My god you are kittened. How do you write this much and refuse to do the simple thing of going on to your main class and testing it yourself. It’s .9 per cast because it’s .3 per pulse, kitten off if you refuse to test something used in other abilities too. Just because something was nerfed once does not make it balanced. Daze isn’t their only CC and again only the CA3 has a cast time but it also casts multiple times and heals. Even if you predict it (which isn’t a valid argument) everyone on the team has to do the same and still all dodge CA3 2-3 times while still being hit by other dazes and CC from the Druid/pet and suffer immobilize spam from CA5/any AoE daze combined with an AoE hit.
If you can provide the calculations, please do so. I am interested to know why Druid staff damage works differently than every other damage source in the game. Otherwise, I am done with you. Your main argument is that you want Druids to be nerfed so they aren’t a challenge for your team, and you refuse to use any skillful play to counter abilities.
It’s basic GW2 logic, if it says (number x) then the damage calculation is already done where number is the max amount of hits of the skill and the damage if all hits hit. If it doesn’t say that and hits multiple times then that is the damage of each hit. Mesmer greatsword clearly says (3x) http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Spatial_Surge. http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Solar_Beam this doesn’t so you multiply what you see by the pulses. http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Unrelenting_Assault This skill hits 7 times for 202 with .715 scaling per hit. http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Path_of_Scars This hits twice for 235 with 1.2 scaling per hit. http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Vapor_Blade This skill hits two times for 121 with .3305 scaling per hit. http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Blurred_Frenzy This skill does 880 damage over 8 hits with 2.4 scaling over 8 hits. http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Hundred_Blades This skill does 1571 over 8 hits with 4.21 scaling over 8 hits and finishes with a 410 hit with 1.1 scaling.
If a class chooses not to take it, then they are choosing to be susceptible to a chill-based build. It means that their build has kitten in it, and a chill-based Reaper is able to exploit that hole to pressure the class.
Are you saying they should remove mechanics that exploit holes in builds for various classes, because those builds should feel nice and safe against everything?
I don’t really know what you’re saying. “Only 33%”? That’s like saying Prot is “only 30% damage reduction”, so it isn’t really that good of a boon.
I use Relentless Pursuit and Melandru runes on my Soldier Necro build right now. In Reaper, chill basically just rolls right off, especially if I’m in Shroud. I built this way because Chilled hitting my cooldowns really puts a damper on the cadence of a fight for me, and I would rather play through other things (like having an increased Shout cooldown that I can anticipate) than worrying as much about Chilled, especially with the ability to be kited as a Reaper. Cripple and Immobilize also basically evaporate the moment they hit me.
It’s only 33% if the chill is removed by time limit and not by condition removal.
Right. You’re mitigating the risk of Chill going the distance.
And if Chill is being regularly cleared by condition removal, then it isn’t really a problem is it?
33% damage for one condition out of many and easily reapplied by Reapers .
If a class chooses not to take it, then they are choosing to be susceptible to a chill-based build. It means that their build has kitten in it, and a chill-based Reaper is able to exploit that hole to pressure the class.
Are you saying they should remove mechanics that exploit holes in builds for various classes, because those builds should feel nice and safe against everything?
I don’t really know what you’re saying. “Only 33%”? That’s like saying Prot is “only 30% damage reduction”, so it isn’t really that good of a boon.
I use Relentless Pursuit and Melandru runes on my Soldier Necro build right now. In Reaper, chill basically just rolls right off, especially if I’m in Shroud. I built this way because Chilled hitting my cooldowns really puts a damper on the cadence of a fight for me, and I would rather play through other things (like having an increased Shout cooldown that I can anticipate) than worrying as much about Chilled, especially with the ability to be kited as a Reaper. Cripple and Immobilize also basically evaporate the moment they hit me.
It’s only 33% if the chill is removed by time limit and not by condition removal.
I argued that Chill is perhaps the most counterable condition in the game, besides probably Fear. It looks like 7 classes have a trait that can reduce its duration by 33%. A few classes have abilities that remove Chilled specifically. Chilled can be removed with regular old condi removal, which is often prevalent in team fights and can be specced for as well. Additionally, there are two rune options which reduce condi duration by 20% (Hoelbrak) and 25% (Melandru).
All of that is ignoring the fact that you can dodge the Chilled application as well, as it is often fairly obvious in its animation (GS #5, Focus #5, Staff #5 when traited, RS #5, RS #2 when traited, Chilled to the Bone, Spectral Grasp). Staff #3 might be the most difficult version of Chill to dodge.
So given the plethora of ways to counter the Chilled condition, is it really OP? They might tune the damage, but I’m not sure. You can’t even stack it to burst with Chilled. It’s just another “slow demise” condition added into the Necromancer’s repertoire, which is part of the class’s design.
Can you tell me which class actually takes any of those traits, only one is Chronomancer guaranteed with its minor that no one has mentioned and Daredevil with the mobility dodge being nearly immune to it, maybe Elementalist. Warriors are better off taking http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Shield_Master . Engineers require the Inventions line which is only good for bunkers. Tempest needs either http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Imbued_Melodies or http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Elemental_Bastion . Thief one is in Acrobatics and Daredevil gives a better one. Reaper has one but why would any of you use it over shout recharge or a nice power damage giving more chill. No Druids going to take it over http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Verdant_Etching . Either way it’s only 33% duration and it’s easy to stack up.
Engineers have always been naturally tanky with Healing Turret. Now they get hammer giving multiple defense skills with good damage at the same time and a triple leap to heal off the water fields even better. Free stomp/revive utility for nothing, with good protection up time from trait and free damage reduction from Adaptive Armor or high stability up time from dodging.
wow so if i run a tank build i will actually be tanky , that is unheard of
well this only confirms that it is an l2p issue and that glass cannon players cant wrap their heads around people not dieing instantly loli bumped into a bunker decap mesmer maybe those will be considered OP too shortly
Uhh I said naturally tanky not running a bunker build. Bunker Engineers always had the best self healing.
personally i find scrappers just as squishy as any class when i fight them unless they are running celestial gear, sure they can heal and all but if their dps focus is indeed the hammer then they become stupidly predicable and dont stand a chance
Don’t even need to run Celestial for the healing to be broken on Scrapper. Healing Turret->Cleansing Burst->pick it up->Acid Bomb->Rocket Charge=11k healing exactly with 4490 of that being AoE plus 2 conditions removed. That’s 733 HPS just by doing that combo every 15 seconds and you still have Super Elixir healing 700 plus 204×11+1 condition removed and whatever traits you want.
Engineers have always been naturally tanky with Healing Turret. Now they get hammer giving multiple defense skills with good damage at the same time and a triple leap to heal off the water fields even better. Free stomp/revive utility for nothing, with good protection up time from trait and free damage reduction from Adaptive Armor or high stability up time from dodging.
wow so if i run a tank build i will actually be tanky , that is unheard of
well this only confirms that it is an l2p issue and that glass cannon players cant wrap their heads around people not dieing instantly loli bumped into a bunker decap mesmer maybe those will be considered OP too shortly
Uhh I said naturally tanky not running a bunker build. Bunker Engineers always had the best self healing.
Engineers have always been naturally tanky with Healing Turret. Now they get hammer giving multiple defense skills with good damage at the same time and a triple leap to heal off the water fields even better. Free stomp/revive utility for nothing, with good protection up time from trait and free damage reduction from Adaptive Armor or high stability up time from dodging.
How do you still not see that the .3 is added per pulse. Go use a power amulet and then a no power amulet and compare the damage, extremely simple. Tell me how to dodge instant cast skills. The counterplay to everything in this game is spamming CC, but oh wait the kittening Druid is spamming CC as I said so what if he is counterplaying everything else. I’m not even affected by the build but I see it everywhere in high MMR, I’m pretty much immune to movement impairments and can dodge till dazes are over. The trait was fine when Rangers only had GS and SB to stun/daze, now they added 3 low cooldown AoE with immobilize pulsesx2 that make it more effective than stuns needing both a break and condition removal. The healing is too high for a build with 0 healing power, lower the base and increase the scaling to be equal as it currently is with Cleric.
The 0.3 is a multiplier. It is not additive. This is shown in the formulas above, which I laid out for you. If you require me to calculate the damage per pulse, here you go:
Damage done = (Weapon strength) * Power * (skill-specific coefficient) / (target’s Armor)
At 1000 power, with the target’s armor set at 2597, Druid staff does [121*1000* 0.3]/2597 + [121*1000*0.3]/2597 + [121*1000*0.3]/2597= 41.93 base direct damage. I hope this clears it up for you.
Druid dazes and base heal values have already been nerfed. Support and CC are literally the only things this that the Druid elite specialization has to offer over base Ranger. You suggest gutting the prime purpose of an elite specialization so that other players can avoid adjusting their playstyles. This does not strike me as “balanced”, no matter your words.
If you are claiming that Druids cast 3 Lunar Impacts and then remove themselves from CAF, proccing the Staff weaponswap Daze, I would suggest that you respond to the pattern you have identified and dodge backwards (or shadowstep) after the third Lunar Impact to avoid the daze, or simply avoid this conundrum by ranging or using CC yourself if you don’t want to use any active defenses. Since you think the pattern is predictable, you can avoid even an instant-cast skill because you recognize what precedes it. If simply facetanking a Druid with nothing but DPS skills isn’t working, then perhaps it is time to try a new strategy.
It seems hypocritical that you are asking for the Druid’s ability to counterplay (CC) to be removed from the class entirely. The Druid has limited active defenses, limited offense (that is further limited by time in CAF), and you want to remove any ability they have to defend themselves with CC because you are unwilling to change your playstyle—which you have stated is not negatively affected by the Druid anyhow, so I’m not sure what your game is here. It seems you are more than willing to gut an entire elite specialization out of sheer dislike for the playstyle.
My god you are kittened. How do you write this much and refuse to do the simple thing of going on to your main class and testing it yourself. It’s .9 per cast because it’s .3 per pulse, kitten off if you refuse to test something used in other abilities too. Just because something was nerfed once does not make it balanced. Daze isn’t their only CC and again only the CA3 has a cast time but it also casts multiple times and heals. Even if you predict it (which isn’t a valid argument) everyone on the team has to do the same and still all dodge CA3 2-3 times while still being hit by other dazes and CC from the Druid/pet and suffer immobilize spam from CA5/any AoE daze combined with an AoE hit.
So you seem to be able to get the same base damage as me with 363 but don’t do the same basic math to add it up to .3 per pulse into .9. Heals the Druid by activating the passive for 207 health per second from the minor. Again you don’t know how GW2 math adds up because if it says x3 it already added them for you for 381 with .94 scaling at 900+ range if all 3 hits hit. Quick Draw definitely works with CA skills but it has a 9 second cooldown so you won’t have it proc unless you wait till around weapon swap. Also Solar Beam is slightly faster than Spatial Surge so it really does higher damage at any range.
Apologies for the essay, but it is necessary to address all of your points.
My mistake on the pulse vs…pulsing damage. The discrepancy in the tooltips fooled me. I’ll edit to reflect this, using the official formula for damage:
Damage done = (Weapon strength) * Power * (skill-specific coefficient) / (target’s Armor)
At 1000 power, with the target’s armor set at 2597, Druid staff does [363*1000* 0.3]/2597 = 41.93 base direct damage.
At 1000 power, with the target’s armor set at 2597, Mesmer greatsword does [219*1000*0.54]/2597 = kitten (ETA: forty five point five four, as my numbers have been replaced by kittens) base direct damage on the lowest end, up to [381*1000*0.945]/2597 = 138.64 base direct damage.
As you can see, Mesmer greatsword always out-damages Druid staff per hit, even using the lowest possible weapon damage and coefficients on Mesmer greatsword.
At higher power levels, the gap between the two weapons widens further. Using the same formulas, at 2000 power, the base direct damage for Druid staff is 83.87 versus Mesmer greatsword base direct damage from 91.07 to 277.28.
0.3 is the damage multiplier and you do not add these together per pulse. A damage multiplier of 0.3 on one pulse is the same as a damage multiplier of 0.3 on every pulse combined, just as 1*0.3 + 1*0.3 +1*0.3 is the same as 3*0.3. This is reflected in the formula that I have copied above.
Druid staff has a slightly shorter channel time than Mesmer greatsword (1/4 second). Both skills have a small amount of aftercast that makes their weapon speed slightly slower than stated. The variation between the two cannot be calculated without accurate aftercast measurements on Druid staff, and it is entirely irrelevant at ranges >300 units due to the combination of weapon damage and coefficient scaling on Mesmer greatsword.
At 0 Healing Power, if the ranger keeps an ally between his/her enemy and the ally is not at full health, the healing granted by Live Vicariously is 207 (HP coefficient 0.01) per proc (1s ICD). The boon Regeneration at 0 Healing Power heals for 130 (HP coefficient 0.125) per second and is not reliant on weapon choice (Live Vicariously synergizes only with Staff), ranger/ally placement, or ally health. This does not seem unreasonable to me, especially considering that Regeneration scales better with Healing Power than Live Vicariously.
I double checked and you are correct that Quick Draw works with CAF skills, but it requires the ICD to be met. This means that a Druid can choose to either utilize Daze with Staff swap OR with Lunar Impact in CAF, but not both within the same 9 seconds. The Druid also sacrifices an important healing trait or a stunbreak+condition cleanse in order to take the Staff weapon trait, making them more vulnerable to counterplay.
There is counterplay for the Druid’s dazes, even apart from stunbreaks, stability, and blocks. Druids are extremely vulnerable to CC, especially dazes, stuns, and knockbacks. The tells for CAF skills are well-broadcasted, and it is no secret when a Druid enters CAF either. CAF cast times are 1/2 second and up, allowing for interrupts. Ranging a Druid also negates the Druid’s personal healing through Lunar Impact if they are using it offensively.
The Staff weaponswap daze and Glyph are instant-cast, but PbAoEs with limited radii (300 units) and can be avoided by dodging (a single dodge is 300 units), kiting, or ranging the Druid. This is more counterplay than exists for related skills, such as Mesmer’s Mantra of Distraction/Power Lock, which is an instant AoE daze that can be cast from up to 1200 units away.
Hope this fixes some of my earlier mistakes and helps you successfully counter Druids in PvP. Druid is already in a very weak position in PvE, and its healing focus allows it to serve only as a support/CC/bunker in PvP and WvW. If you take away its healing and CC, you are gutting Druid to uselessness in all game modes.
How do you still not see that the .3 is added per pulse. Go use a power amulet and then a no power amulet and compare the damage, extremely simple. Tell me how to dodge instant cast skills. The counterplay to everything in this game is spamming CC, but oh wait the kittening Druid is spamming CC as I said so what if he is counterplaying everything else. I’m not even affected by the build but I see it everywhere in high MMR, I’m pretty much immune to movement impairments and can dodge till dazes are over. The trait was fine when Rangers only had GS and SB to stun/daze, now they added 3 low cooldown AoE with immobilize pulsesx2 that make it more effective than stuns needing both a break and condition removal. The healing is too high for a build with 0 healing power, lower the base and increase the scaling to be equal as it currently is with Cleric.
(edited by glaphen.5230)
How am I exaggerating, log in the game yourself and cast it, wow it does exactly as I said. It’s a .75 second cast time in a massive AoE and can be cast 2-3 times in 5-7 seconds, glyph and staff swap is instant. Staff has massive basic attack damage so it’s not like you aren’t doing anything, it’s just a basic player skill to align the beam right while doing high basic attack DPS. I didn’t know those 3 trait lines were mandatory on every single build.
I have no idea how you can cast a 5 second cooldown skill 2-3 times in 5-7 seconds. Perhaps check your math?
And I find your claim of “staff has massive basic attack damage” highly disingenuous. Staff has a base damage of 121 with a power coefficient of 0.3 and pulses 3 times. For comparison, Mesmer greatsword pulses 3 times with damage ranging from 219-381 with a power coefficient of 0.540 to 0.945. Please make note of the difference.
If you are having trouble with Druids, I would suggest a) using Stability; b) using hard CC against the Druid; c) dodging or interrupting a Druid’s skills; d) bringing stunbreaks; e) moving while fighting, rather than staying rooted; and f) actually playing as a Druid and learning its myriad weaknesses through experience.
Are you serious at the damage whoa 363 damage and .9 scaling at any range while healing compared to 900+ greatsword doing 381 with .94 scaling. Quick Draw makes it 3 casts. You don’t realize how much CC they are spamming lol, need stun breaks and condition clears.
I have no idea where you are pulling these numbers from. If you wish me to do the math for you, and add the pulses together—as you seem to be unable—it is 363(0.3) damage on Druid staff (which heals for 66(0.03), and cannot heal the ranger) versus 657(0.54) to 1143(0.945) on Mesmer greatsword. Again, even you should be able to see the difference in damage.
Please also be aware that Quickdraw does not work with CAF skills.
So you seem to be able to get the same base damage as me with 363 but don’t do the same basic math to add it up to .3 per pulse into .9. Heals the Druid by activating the passive for 207 health per second from the minor. Again you don’t know how GW2 math adds up because if it says x3 it already added them for you for 381 with .94 scaling at 900+ range if all 3 hits hit. Quick Draw definitely works with CA skills but it has a 9 second cooldown so you won’t have it proc unless you wait till around weapon swap. Also Solar Beam is slightly faster than Spatial Surge so it really does higher damage at any range.
(edited by glaphen.5230)
@glaphen.5230, you could always try learning the majorly telegraphed animation and just dodge it…..
Only 2-3 times does every not ranged team member need to dodge it per CA or face 4 seconds daze+root possibly while the Druid heals 5-7.5k to his team. But again that’s just CA, still have 4 seconds per 24 instantly with glyph and 2 per 10-20 with staff swap, plus any other weapon skills and 2 pets.
Do you even play ranger, doesn’t sound like it. I get feeling you seem to think every ranger build has everything there are limits to what a build can take. E.g. most druids take condition clear over daze on staff swap.
And that is their choice to take condition removal on a damage build over an instant daze and cooldown reduction on their best weapon. As I said I’m arguing against damage builds being too CC spammy with too much healing just by taking Druid, not bunkers that can’t afford the trait and barely scale with healing power compared to base healing.
@glaphen.5230, you could always try learning the majorly telegraphed animation and just dodge it…..
Only 2-3 times does every not ranged team member need to dodge it per CA or face 4 seconds daze+root possibly while the Druid heals 5-7.5k to his team. But again that’s just CA, still have 4 seconds per 24 instantly with glyph and 2 per 10-20 with staff swap, plus any other weapon skills and 2 pets.
How am I exaggerating, log in the game yourself and cast it, wow it does exactly as I said. It’s a .75 second cast time in a massive AoE and can be cast 2-3 times in 5-7 seconds, glyph and staff swap is instant. Staff has massive basic attack damage so it’s not like you aren’t doing anything, it’s just a basic player skill to align the beam right while doing high basic attack DPS. I didn’t know those 3 trait lines were mandatory on every single build.
I have no idea how you can cast a 5 second cooldown skill 2-3 times in 5-7 seconds. Perhaps check your math?
And I find your claim of “staff has massive basic attack damage” highly disingenuous. Staff has a base damage of 121 with a power coefficient of 0.3 and pulses 3 times. For comparison, Mesmer greatsword pulses 3 times with damage ranging from 219-381 with a power coefficient of 0.540 to 0.945. Please make note of the difference.
If you are having trouble with Druids, I would suggest a) using Stability; b) using hard CC against the Druid; c) dodging or interrupting a Druid’s skills; d) bringing stunbreaks; e) moving while fighting, rather than staying rooted; and f) actually playing as a Druid and learning its myriad weaknesses through experience.
Are you serious at the damage whoa 363 damage and .9 scaling at any range while healing compared to 900+ greatsword doing 381 with .94 scaling. Quick Draw makes it 3 casts. You don’t realize how much CC they are spamming lol, need stun breaks and condition clears.
Free healing? A druid in ca form is a sitting duck.
I don’t see how they have any worse defense than normal form, AoE 4 second daze heal into a 4.5k AoE heal channel and/or huge damage slow AoE ending in an immobilize into another daze heal. Leave form and easily get back to it in around 10 seconds if you can aim your staff beam any good.
lol… you don’t play druid, or are playing the worst players ever. This chain is a pipe dream against anyone competent, and most druids aren’t even running mm. Those that are running mm, are zerkers with 0 healing. By all means though, keep trying.
Oh and could you please define “another daze heal”? where does that come from? And yeah i’ll just, “use my staff beam good” for 10 secs after leaving ca form… What could possibly go wrong in, 10 secs you say? I’ll just sit here and aa.
Yes as I said amulets with 0 healing heal too much with Druid. “Another daze heal” as in the skill only has a 5 second cooldown and lasts 4 seconds, cast it as soon as you enter form and use both 4 and 5 in either order and cast a daze again, leave the form and still have 25% left and easily charge it up if you can align the beam through your pet. If you have Quick Draw you can also cast it and then do 4/5 and cooldown will be over to cast it again, cast 5/4 and wait 2 seconds with a 2 or 1 and get a third off.
With 0 healing ca #3 does 2.4k healing, you are exaggerating. And now I’m running mm and skirmishing, which leaves the third as druid so no nature magic, ws, or bm??
Why the hell would someone let me cast a daze twice?! who are you playing against and what magic build is this? How is me healing my pet to slowly gain af helping my team? I just don’t get it. Please stop filling this thread with garbage.
How am I exaggerating, log in the game yourself and cast it, wow it does exactly as I said. It’s a .75 second cast time in a massive AoE and can be cast 2-3 times in 5-7 seconds, glyph and staff swap is instant. Staff has massive basic attack damage so it’s not like you aren’t doing anything, it’s just a basic player skill to align the beam right while doing high basic attack DPS. I didn’t know those 3 trait lines were mandatory on every single build.