…..if thieves were that OP, I think Anet would nerf them even more….
You’re implying that they care about the WvW balance at all.
Try being a Ranger using sword and watch as you cant even dodge out of the 2nd and 3rd attack of the chain. You can still use the dodge during the auto attack and a lot of classes don’t even have an evasion skill on their weapon sets yet still manage to survive. Also you could try using Steal on the boss to evade the circle too.
Everything a Ranger does a staff Elementalist does better.
sorry to rain on your parade, but a staff ele with a hybrid/tanker build still cannot hope to tank/survive better then any bow + sword/X ranger. If you were to use Scepter/Dagger or Dagger/Dagger i would not argue.
You’re implying that Ranger can do anything other than Barrage and Healing Spring in a zerg. Elementalist in zerker gear can kill multiple players with one cast of Meteor Shower. The other day I saw 5 players go down when a single Elementalist cast a Meteor Shower on a zerg. Elementalists are also immortal if within range of a tower. Seriously just compare http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/List_of_elementalist_skills#Two-handed to http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/List_of_ranger_skills#Longbow and tell me which is better. The Elementalist is better with just fire attunement and Ranger doesn’t even have a useful AoE besides Barrage which is far worse than a Meteor Shower or even a Lava Font.
Everything a Ranger does a staff Elementalist does better.
… when everyone else cant even kill a zerker Thief ever.
If you’re going to engage in the debate, consider starting off with a message other than “I am either dishonest or deluded, but here’s what I think…”
Please master explain how to kill a Thief in WvW that isn’t a moron. The only counter to Thieves is a Thief using a zerker Backstab build. Anything else and the Thief will always escape. A fight with a Thief in WvW either ends with you dead or the Thief escaping and possibly coming back to try again.
Just go full zerker and you can kill anyone as a Thief. I really don’t see how a Thief can complain about not being able to kill a bunker build in WvW when everyone else cant even kill a zerker Thief ever. The slow Guardian cant escape you and if it’s two vs one he will drop fast as long as it isn’t two bunkers. If it’s another zerker build a Thief will always win or be able to reset the fight till he does win. You try to kill a zerker Thief one on one or even five on one he will always escape.
50/50 and the rest completed as well.
They already showed it in the preview video and its the exact same thing as Borrowed Time on Abaddon in DoTA. It has a 1/4 second cast and heals you for 1800 and then for the next 3 seconds all damage heals you for the amount of damage it did showing as green numbers to the enemies damage indicators.
Join a group of 4 other Thieves using zerker gear and swap to Signet of Malice and Dagger Storm. Stealth to the back of the enemy zerg and then watch them all drop while being immortal unless a skilled Necromancer trolls you.
Good player can easily find the Mesmer in less than a second through experience. Easiest way to win would be a zerker build and then Cloak and Dagger→Steal→Backstab→Heartseeker→Heartseeker→Heartseeker. If that somehow didn’t work use Shadow Refuge and be prepared to dodge Illusionary Wave or Temporal Curtain. Next stalk him at 3-4k range away and repeat in 30-60 seconds till you have the kill.
Warrior is the worst bunker in the game doing the least damage with the least survivability. Even if you have 1000 health per second regen all the enemy needs is a single damage built character of any class to kill you. One tanky condition Necromancer would do the same job 100x better. Warrior bunker only works in WvW where you can stack -100% condition duration and insane regen and mobility to be immortal but the damage would come from siege.
I only salvage blues and greens with it and the sigils and runes are only only worth 16 copper. Haven’t noticed more materials than the basics give so having my inventory filled with a ton of useless sigils is more annoying than anything.
You know Impale is ranged and can even be cast on a target behind you right. Casting it at melee range and ripping would be an obvious dps loss. Casting it when you cant be melee on a boss and ripping at 4-5 stacks of Torment gives it the highest single target damage by far.
Don’t know where you get the idea of my saying more than 5 targets. I never said it would be useful in Spvp. It is the best heal in the game for PvE and especially WvW if you use the short bow or a D/D condition build. If it was ever buffed for Spvp it would need to be a change separate from PvE. But this thread is about a guy comparing a trait to two heal skills and wanting the trait to be equal to the heals.
I just how you don’t join my party with that useless off hand. You would do far more for the party dps just auto attacking with axe than a cast of that could ever make up. In the end all off hands suck in comparison to the axe auto attack.
You can spam Cluster Bomb on yourself inside a group of enemies and heal 1197 a cast and do this every 3 seconds. Not every heal is good on every build. Elementalist signet is useless without the Written in Stone grandmaster trait. Warrior signet is countered by burst so a zerker Warrior is risking a Backstab and Heartseeker spam to die in 1-10 seconds. Thief signet needs multi-hit attacks to do good healing and still has a decent active heal if traited.
EDIT: Actually I just tested it and Cluster Bomb actually hits 5 targets so you can get 1995 per cast and Choking Gas gives you 665 per second when hitting 5 targets. You also get 399 per .95 second each auto attack if there’s at least 2 targets compared to Healing Signets 392.
(edited by glaphen.5230)
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Signet_of_malice
You compare the two healing signets of other classes to a trait even though Thief has the highest potential healing of the signets.
You cant seriously be implying 4 stacks on vulnerability makes it even worth casting that skill and Tremors AoE damage is the same as a single mace auto attack. Whirling Axe hits 5 targets for half the damage of Hundred Blades in around the same amount of time but you can move and dodge during it. If you need to dodge on a boss you can just cast Whirling Axe and do some extra damage during the dodge.
For multiple enemies axe is best and for a single enemy sword is best by far. Mace is a choice if you really really had to instead of axe for some reason. Though I say axe is best for multiple enemies I only mean more than 3 otherwise mace would be better for the meh cc. Off hand axe whirl only does more damage than the auto attack if it hits more than 3 enemies. Mace off hand damage is pathetic so it would only be useful for the hard to aim, really low damage cc.
(edited by glaphen.5230)
If you run a condition build sword is best. If you run a power build sword is best. If you need AoE in dungeons axe is best. If you pvp against bads or need cc mace is best though shield would do what you need better.
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Healing
Notice how Warrior and Mesmer are the only one with 2 entries. However Mesmer also has an innate 1-4 second invulnerability, 1-4 second daze, the second highest hps heal in the game, protection, clones, stealth, and great survivability skills on their weapons. Now lets count the Warriors in the same fashion. Utility slot for 4 seconds of immunity to physical damage and 8 seconds of condition immunity using seperate slots, no innate daze, highest hps heal in the game which is countered by burst damage, no protection, no clones, no stealth, and only survivability skills on shield, sword off hand, and greatsword mobility.
I dug up one of my older videos for this, uploaded it, and it can show how much frontloaded power the current meta warrior build is (the one getting nerfed)
It offers too much, too fast, for very little cost (only real danger is massive CC/Condi specs such as necros and engis)
I play sPvP pretty casually (usually just if I don’t like how the PvE daily looks and still want my laurel) but I used to play it much more.
I would consider myself a run-of-the-mill average warrior, usually just running around in WvW (I would never use this build in WvW though….)
For starters it’s 8v8 which is filled with the worst of the worst. Next you should re-watch the video and count all the dodges the enemies made, almost none of them dodged even once and then ones that did were doing it at low health trying to escape like usual of bads. Enemies who do not time their dodges cant have an opinion on balance especially while playing 8v8. But really I’m begging you to show me one good dodge out of that entire video.
Necromancers have the best CC options.
Every single weapon set except Off-hand dagger has a snare. However, you do not want chill necromancers at all. They are trash.
What you want is D/W staff Minion master necromancers. You can keep enemies crippled forever vs. chilled for 12 seconds.
I can’t see where the permanent cripple comes in when I add up the seconds each of these give.
Can you explain further? Have you played this build a lot?
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Locust_Swarm
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Summon_Bone_Fiend
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Summon_Flesh_Golem
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Grasping_Dead
Maybe those?
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Banshee%27s_Wail alone pretty much perma cripples if you hump someone
(edited by glaphen.5230)
http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fQAQFAWCd7JEoHAAAAiRKAgghSBAkOA-TYAivUf5+y8lsIbRA
10+ seconds of fear by fearing them into the wall while doing 8k+ damage.
I don’t really care about Lyssa runes but cry more about stability. Poor Mesmer cant wait a couple seconds to stun and insta kill? What are all those stealth skills and boon removals for? If anyone should complain about stability its Warriors since they have no boon removal and need the enemy to not move to do anything.
dodge is bad mechanic for pvp
I agree we should take out all skill requirements in this game and make it entirely based off rotations.
The “short” period was since launch, they only gave it a cooldown since they changed sword to have cripple on auto attack chain and possibly because they were going to change immobilize to stack eventually.
Which again means hambow is the only problem and only in multi vs multi fights and that doesn’t mean Healing Signet is the problem. They are nerfing hammer to 0 damage next patch anyways and I still don’t see how a Necromancer using fear and AoE condition damage isn’t 100x worse damage, cc and survivability wise.
This shouldn’t even be a question. This is an important detail and the skill level change from this would be IMMENSE. Pressure force dodgerolls, watch energy, know when the best time to unload is, this would be fantastic for skillful play.
I can hear it now “My target, low on endurance, swap to them, immobing now.”
Please just yes.
You can already do this with skill so all this would do is make things less skill based than it already is.
abusing line of sight, cleansing ire and counter pressure are all great additions to stances, plus lyssa runes too.
Line of sight is situational, Cleansing Ire wont work with anything besides longbow and Lyssa runes are a whole different balance problem.
what weaponset do you have in mind when referring to warrior balance? in most used warriors builds the weaponsets usually have blocks, cc or mobility. You can kite with the mobility, counter pressure with cc or straight up just block I guess.
Greatsword and sword since the rest all rely on one ability hitting and if it doesn’t you’re screwed for the next 7-30 seconds. No good player gets hit by Earthshaker or Eviscerate. Really though are you actually suggesting Warriors kite though? The counter to every Warrior build besides Rifle is kiting them so how is kiting gonna help you unless the enemy is another Warrior or some perma chilled Thief trying to Heartseeker spam you.
If you’re under pressure you can use mobility to your advantage and resustain with adrenal health/healing signet while kiting your opponents.
So running away like every class can do and I’m pretty sure most people are complaing about hambow anyways which has 0 mobility.
i speak for myself since i am a casual sPvP player and only plays in anet’s official 8 vs 8 hotjoin servers. nowadays in sPvP, i only play my warrior and he is far from godlike or cannot be defeated. he is harder to kill, yes, but not impossible. he still dies every now and then. so, based on this fact alone, my take is that, healing signet is not overpowered.
in short, healing signet is not overpowered because when a casual player uses it, they are not godlike, and still can be defeated.
Are you serious?
yes, i am serious.
i speak for myself, as a casual sPvP player, who enjoys using warrior in anet’s public 8 vs 8 hotjoin servers, and in WvW.
come, lets hear your counter argument.
there u go
a monkey could survive with that.
if something like this is possible in a game it sure is overpowered!
WvW is unbalanced whats the point of posting this in the Spvp forum? Plus the Mesmer is attacking with greatsword at melee range and most people in WvW use tanky builds. Also if he summoned 3 Berserker phantasms he could have killed him too. Notice how he was dying to 2 of them and the Ranger is using axe a weapon that only does good damage against 2 enemies. Plus the ranger is using the longbow at melee range too
(edited by glaphen.5230)
abusing line of sight, cleansing ire and counter pressure are all great additions to stances, plus lyssa runes too.
Line of sight is situational, Cleansing Ire wont work with anything besides longbow and Lyssa runes are a whole different balance problem.
what weaponset do you have in mind when referring to warrior balance? in most used warriors builds the weaponsets usually have blocks, cc or mobility. You can kite with the mobility, counter pressure with cc or straight up just block I guess.
Greatsword and sword since the rest all rely on one ability hitting and if it doesn’t you’re screwed for the next 7-30 seconds. No good player gets hit by Earthshaker or Eviscerate. Really though are you actually suggesting Warriors kite though? The counter to every Warrior build besides Rifle is kiting them so how is kiting gonna help you unless the enemy is another Warrior or some perma chilled Thief trying to Heartseeker spam you.
Blind on torch #4 or warhorn #4. Every other profession has access to blind except rangers. (And no, jellyfish RNG smokefield does not count.)
not everyone has a pet that doesn’t scale with stats and hits like a truck
If pets did scale with power everyone would cry when the power ranger insta bursts people with Rapid Fire and a Jaguar.
abusing line of sight, cleansing ire and counter pressure are all great additions to stances, plus lyssa runes too.
Line of sight is situational, Cleansing Ire wont work with anything besides longbow and Lyssa runes are a whole different balance problem.
Just going to go ahead and re-post this here…
The way warriors are designed in this game and many others, is to be a good introductory class. This says nothing about skill ceiling, only skill floor. In their current state, warriors are actually serving this purpose well. New players can enter into the game, equip themselves with strong yet easy-to-use skills like Healing Signet, Berserker’s Stance, Endure Pain etc. and perform well. This creates a problem, however, when such low-skill, high power abilities do not lose effectiveness as the player progresses into areas of the game that require more skill.
Here is a perfect example:
Deimos Tel Arin.7391but i enjoy playing a warrior, in sPvP (hotjoin 8 vs 8 whee) / PvE / WvW
previously i was playing a mesmer in sPvP, then a thief for a short while. then i reverted back to playing warrior in sPvP. i did not use healing signet though. i used the errr mending which heals for a bit and removes some conditions.
after i learned that healing signet was balanced, i used healing signet for my warrior in sPvP again. i felt so much happier! died less, still die sometimes unlike last time, died a lot. my warrior is able to sustain much better now. he is not god like and will still die. just doing better than last time.This is a case of an “inexperienced” player who, at first, is doing ok. Nothing special. But then, he builds a certain way or equips a certain skill, performs better, has more fun (plays more as a result) and ultimately attributes his success to an increase in skill because of increased time played. Anyone who says otherwise, according to this player, is having a L2P issue. After all, that’s what he thinks he overcame himself. Either that or he has the insight to see from where his increased ability to perform is derived (Healing Signet) and fears for it being taken away.
If you have not seen it yet, I am essentially reiterating this video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t6fVHZFjnmA#t=3m02s
Healing Signet, passive immunity builds are the quintessential definition of “FOO” strategies. They need to remain good, but become sub-optimal when players become skilled. When we see every warrior running around with these skills with little consequence at higher levels of play, it is apparent something is wrong. If you cannont recognize that, I’m afraid you are delusional.
From what I understand, top warriors desperately want the opportunity for skilled play. They constantly refer back to the good ol’ days of frenzy greatsword builds (ie. high risk, high reward play). The fact of the matter is, it is not rewarding to play as nor fun to play against an unstoppable force who kills you if it hits you once. Do not even begin to say that warriors become useless and easy kills after their immunities expire. Even at their point of “every skill on cooldown”, they are more mobile, deal more damage, and are more tanky than many classes when in the same situation.
Fixing this is not as simple as “nerf ____ by 20%” or “bring everything else warriors have up to snuff”. Warriors need to be given strong, active use skills that excel when used by a skillful player. It is a tough job and I do not envy those who have to do it, especially after seeing how worked up some people can become about topics like these.
That mobility only exists on a Greatsword and sword and “more armor” is only around 10% less damage on no toughness builds between lights and heavies. Please again tell me what the Warrior has after the initial 8 seconds of condition immunity besides Healing Signet right now. If the Warrior is focused he has no way to stop his death as it was in the past and he will drop fast. Then hes downed and stuck with a useless 1 target slow casting knockdown and a recently nerfed Vengeance that has only 1 second of invulnerability, half hp and 0 adrenaline. Why do you think Warrior was never used in the past in top teams? Warriors damage relies on the enemy skill or allies landing stuns and they have 0 sustain so they should be the first to die in any team fight giving a free rally if anyone did get downed. You cant possibly bring Warrior bunkers into this since they are the worst bunker class having little sustain, no damage and bad team support besides Battle Standard.
all heals got buffed, but in my opinion anet has exaggerated with the signet passive heal
before the healbuffs you were able to chose between the 3 healskills, they had all their pros and cons, no of them 3 was better than the other….surge: adrenaline gain on heal….signet: passive heal wich you dont need to activate….mending: removed also 2 condis on heal…..the surge was just used becouse of the adrenaline gain on heal, not becouse it was op….and this is true, healing signet is just used now, couse the passive effect is such high, not becouse the other healskills would be to bad
maybe you all should try to play without healskill, maybe than you would recognize, that the healskills beside signet are fine….
Actually all Warrior heal skills have always been some of the worst in the game. Healing Signet before the buff was the absolute worst heal in the game with nothing even close to as bad. Warrior lacks the survivability skills other classes are stuffed with and needs better heals to survive, but unfortunately the only decent heal right now is Healing Signet. If they want to nerf Healing Signet then they need to buff the other two worthless ones so Warrior isn’t back to being everyone’s rally bot. Either that or they need to change other mechanics that aren’t just a 8 seconds of condition immunity and then back to the ground you go. For comparison Withdraw from Thieves heals 289 per second and gives a 3/4 second evade while also removing all slows and immobilizes and only has a 15 second cooldown that can abuse runes. Then you had the Healing Signet healing 200 per second and barely scaled with healing power meaning if you had 1500 healing power you still had way less than the Thief heal.
Sword auto attack only hits 3 targets and Leg Specialist only works on one target per 5 second cooldown.
I really wish the devs would lower Warriors health to 10k and double their heals since all these complainers seem to think health matters after the first 10 seconds of a fight. The classes base armor and health do not matter in the slightest as you do realize the classes were balanced around them do you not? The 10k health classes all have far better survivability in combat than the 18k by far.
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Healing
Notice how only two entries exist for Warrior.
Adrenal Health – based on adrenaline level
Vigorous Shouts – causes shouts to heal you and nearby allies
Though it seems to be missing http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Compassionate_Banner
Poor zerker mesmer only does 200 dps of the 400 hps Healing Signet with bleeds qqqq. Good thing you have all that power and crit damage doing 9 6 7 2 3 5 9 2 when applying those bleeds. Wait are you saying you afk while clones stack bleeds on crit and are complaining you cant out dps Healing Signet with a zerker build? You could easily out dps it with a condition build with clones too, maybe try to do a condition build and then afk with your clones next time? Should be easily doing over 1,000 dps with the auto attack alone on a zerker build.
Not every skill works with every build. Of course you don’t see power or condition Necromancers using Blood Fiend or Well of Blood when Consume Conditions is 10x better, but you might see well built Necromancers using Well of Blood or MM using Blood Fiend. Next you should make a thread asking for Healing Breeze to be good on a zerker build or complain when Ether Renewal gets interrupted without Armor of Earth. Maybe Backstab thieves want to start using Signet of Malice so lets buff it to 1,000 health per attack and forget about multi hit attacks.
You mean just like the thief signet but better? I guess that’s one way to fix the off hand axe and break the meta further. Healing signet is fine as it is, nerfing it to please whiners should only come with huge buffs to the other heals.
Now try the same kitten test with a Necromancer using a dagger and see how fast the warrior is destroyed.
Hammer only works on morons and should never ever hit a thief, but the axe/shield is probably the best weapon against a p/d thief. Just learn to dodge Cloak and Dagger and dodge the stealth attack and it should run away if the thief is terrible. Good players will never lose a 1 on 1 vs a warrior so don’t bother.
You can have that when one handed weapons stop costing the same amount of materials twice to craft.
You realize you posted a video with the exact same upload date right?
Healing signet OP….wait he doesn’t have one. Wait what his only regen is Adrenal health and allies regeneration? So he has around 400 hp regen per 3 seconds on his own. Must be the overpowered invulnerability. Wait hes using Shake It Off and dolyak signet?
How exactly is this video showing anything besides pure luck for the first part and teamwork for the rest of the video? If you notice his health almost never even decreases in that zerg and its not because of regen. A thief spamming Cluster Bomb with Assassin’s Reward at melee range probably could have done that better if they were blessed with the luck to walk through a zerg that long without being targeted.
Again like I’ve been saying the immobilize stacking hasn’t changed anything except for thief venom’s as you’re video points out again. If they want to revert it for wvw/spvp it wont change all these people complaining about dying in their tank builds because someone immobilized them for 2 seconds nor will it stop immobilize builds that can perma immobilize and has been unchanged since launch. Its the same thing with all these hammer warrior nerf cries, slowest joke weapon since launch is suddenly getting destroyed to appease bads who cant dodge Earthshaker.