Guild Wars 2

My god I just looked at your build and its no wonder you complain about Necromancers. Also stop posting in Warrior threads when you clearly don’t have one in WvW therefor know nothing NOTHING about the class right. Engineers have so many other sources of burning that its fine but condition Engineer has been broken since launch. That power build was referencing the stat differences of Spvp and WvW. Your build though would be 100x stronger with dire gear and a condition build, if you are just playing the weak build for fun stop posting about balance. If you are going power Necromancer go berserker or go away, tank stats belong on the condition build.

Obviously any Thief built with survivability is kittened for a power build. Its full berserkers if you go power and you still have immortality.

Necromancers are stronger in WvW where people aren’t built to sit on points tanking condition Necromancers. They get 3 second Dhuumfire with higher stats and the possibility of 100% condition duration. Power builds get like 30% more damage but tanks aren’t getting much better survivability especially against conditions.

Yes Engineers are one of the better classes against bad Thieves but good Thieves destroy anyone not built like a rock and can ignore anyone not. Highest mobility class has a hard time catching highest mobility class while movement is limited how surprising.

ArmageddonAsh.6430:

glaphen.5230:

ArmageddonAsh.6430:

No. How much time have you spent in the other modes as a Necro.

None
/15char

That says it all, you know NOTHING about the class. You base all your “knowledge” around a dead end mode that means nothing and is NOTHING like combat in the big wide world.

Yes obviously since I never see them roaming in WvW and playing the weaker version of them lets me know nothing. I bow oh great 200 hour Necromancer your knowledge of the class clearly surpasses your skill at the game.

ArmageddonAsh.6430:

glaphen.5230:

I actually have the least play time in Spvp out of all modes. I have done every single temporary achievement besides dailies and probably have like 1000 hours on WvW.

No. How much time have you spent in the other modes as a Necro.

None
/15char

ArmageddonAsh.6430:

glaphen.5230:

I have 10 hours on my current Necromancer character when I constantly delete them to change their looks in Spvp. I’ve deleted a level 50 and 40 before just to change their race.

I have nearly 200hours on this Necromancer alone, i had a level 78 with much more but deleted it as i fancied a range change. So how much of your “knowledge” is actually from modes OUTSIDE of S/TPvP…

I actually have the least play time in Spvp out of all modes. I have done every single temporary achievement besides dailies and probably have like 1000 hours on WvW.

Cynz.9437:

glaphen.5230:

TinkTinkPOOF.9201:

What gives? What gives is you are being hit for 12k, don’t. Learn to counter them, yes, thieves can be powerful, but more often than not, they are just annoying. They are a light class that is meant to deal big damage, sadly, they got some nerfs they did not need, as I did not find their dmg to be a problem, only annoying ability to reset fights.

I see fights all the time, and I love watching, I will see someone fighting a thief, and sure enough, almost never dodging the right attacks if dodging at all. And within a few seconds, they are down, often times not even fighting long enough for a weapon swap. Then I wait, and sure enough aegis pops, dodge, backup/strafe, he comes out of stealth, JI to them, one combo set and hes at less than half heath, he then dodges/ports/SR, never to be seen again, as I stand there with 90%+ HP. The only time I ever have problems with them is when I am in a fight with others and a thief is there picking people off, waiting for someone to get under 50%, but that’s life.

I really can’t help but agree with the other poster, L2P, watch their tactics, and timing, better yet, make a thief and you will see all the massive holes they have to be attacked as well as their timing. Just knowing basic timing of stealth gives you a huge advantage in dodging a good 80% of their burst.

Allot of classes can kill someone with 3-4 skills, it is the fact you are face tanking their burst, and if you can’t mitigate that burst, then you deserve to die. Because you don’t know how to counter a class/play style does not mean it is unbalanced. I would be willing to bet if you posted screen of the combat log it would show just that.

Someone wanna tell me the right time to dodge against a D/P Thief? You know 90% of WvW roaming?

pretty easy actually

i assume you complain about extended stealth duration due to leaping over BP… it is really easy to counter by sitting next to the field because thief will have to use HS to get stealth, however if he uses it again it will automatically attack you and give him revealed debuff

counting isn’t hard either BP -> HS -> backstab , 1 2 3… if thief is a bit far away you obviously have to count travel time

funny thing you don’t even need to dodge actually, you can just spin around and reduce dmg by 100% by doing so

Hah a Thief with automatic targeting on is impossibly bad or anyone for that matter. If you are any close to the field he can hit you with the first Heartseeker and it doesn’t break stealth too. Half of your body is the front and the other half the back. Even if you spin randomly its a coin toss with the factoring of the Thief skill too.

TinkTinkPOOF.9201:

What gives? What gives is you are being hit for 12k, don’t. Learn to counter them, yes, thieves can be powerful, but more often than not, they are just annoying. They are a light class that is meant to deal big damage, sadly, they got some nerfs they did not need, as I did not find their dmg to be a problem, only annoying ability to reset fights.

I see fights all the time, and I love watching, I will see someone fighting a thief, and sure enough, almost never dodging the right attacks if dodging at all. And within a few seconds, they are down, often times not even fighting long enough for a weapon swap. Then I wait, and sure enough aegis pops, dodge, backup/strafe, he comes out of stealth, JI to them, one combo set and hes at less than half heath, he then dodges/ports/SR, never to be seen again, as I stand there with 90%+ HP. The only time I ever have problems with them is when I am in a fight with others and a thief is there picking people off, waiting for someone to get under 50%, but that’s life.

I really can’t help but agree with the other poster, L2P, watch their tactics, and timing, better yet, make a thief and you will see all the massive holes they have to be attacked as well as their timing. Just knowing basic timing of stealth gives you a huge advantage in dodging a good 80% of their burst.

Allot of classes can kill someone with 3-4 skills, it is the fact you are face tanking their burst, and if you can’t mitigate that burst, then you deserve to die. Because you don’t know how to counter a class/play style does not mean it is unbalanced. I would be willing to bet if you posted screen of the combat log it would show just that.

Someone wanna tell me the right time to dodge against a D/P Thief? You know 90% of WvW roaming?

Just like everyone is using Signet of Vampirism and Defiant Stance. People never even used Healing Breeze before so I don’t see why this upsets you.

I have 10 hours on my current Necromancer character when I constantly delete them to change their looks in Spvp. I’ve deleted a level 50 and 40 before just to change their race.

ArmageddonAsh.6430:

They should do what they did to Ele – if your skills are used for mobility rather than for attacks – You get a big cool down on them. It is that simple, if it can happen to Ride The Lightening then it can happen to Rush and the range needs to be dropped. It should be 600range at max 1,200 is ridiculous.

No, no buffs to the skill. Just make it the way it SHOULD have been Rush does solid enough damage as it is. It does not need a buff just because the skill is fixed.

Cool down wise, make it the same as Ride the Lightening. 40second cool down, 20 if you hit someone with it (critters dont count, they shouldnt for Ride The Lightening either)

Rush does good damage but doesn’t hit the target 90% of the time and its not because they avoid it or dodge. You have Fiery Greatsword for better mobility and greatsword doesn’t come with a cc like Ride the Lightning into Updraft. Also why is this thread necro’d.

ArmageddonAsh.6430:

pierwola.9602:

glaphen.5230:

Dark Path is amazing since you can’t avoid it with movement.

I don’t get it.

Exactly. This alone shows he has no idea what he is talking about.

Once again you prove you are unskilled not knowing projectile dodging methods.

Avigrus.2871:

More assumptions and theory-crafting to support whatever argument you’re trying to make… If he has this, if you have this, if he does this… this discussion is pointless. You’re not changing other ppls opinions and they are not changing yours. GG.

Because you people are morons with terrible opinions based off terrible play. All you give is a bunch of terrible statements and think you have any right to balance discussions.

Well if he started the fight off with Berserker Stance you shouldn’t even cast Lich Form and just wait out the 8 seconds. If he doesn’t start with Berserker Stance he should be perma crippled with a ton of chill. If he has Cleansing Ire just avoid the bursts like you should in the first place. If he has shouts why is this even a discussion. If he has warhorn he lacks cc so you will destroy him outside of Lich Form. If you are in Lich Form with Locust Swarm on I can’t see how you couldn’t kite him for the 4 second Endure Pain. After that assuming he takes 5k each auto attack and dodges two he should be dead after 5-6 seconds if he is wearing berserker? If he is a tank he has no damage so he shouldn’t be able to kill you without being condition tank. Which Necromancers have the best anti condition in the game so I don’t see how you would die to that. Most of zerg damage is physical so 4 seconds of invulnerability that many classes have to both types. Dark Path is amazing since you can’t avoid it with movement. Any other projectile you can just adadadadad or the terrible pathing sends it in the wrong direction in the first place.

I’ve been seeing more and more Pistol Whip Thieves in both Spvp and WvW past few days. Really really being annoying up your kitten always.

Guardian can get perma regen through mace with Symbol of Faith with symbol traits and some boon duration and a bunch of utilities give it. No one uses this kinda build but the option is out there just like banners which offer far less in the support department. Rangers, Necromancers, Thieves, Mesmers, Elementalists and Engineers all have easy access to perma AoE regeneration without a grandmaster trait too.

Burnfall.9573:

glaphen.5230:

Burnfall.9573:

Valentin.2073:

i wonder if an ele and a thief engage in a 1v1 battle, who’s gonna come out as a victor? what do you think, guys? btw, i saw a spirit ranger lose to a really good ele 1 time in soloq.

Thief vs Elementalist

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qp0qu0fXPNc

Elementalist vs Thief

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SQvI4XKHd9A

In conclusion, they both are victor, as long both play well and one survives

This is the Spvp forum and Thieves are 10x stronger in WvW. First video the Thief had food and tuning crystal with perplexity runes against an Elementalist who didn’t.

whose side you are on?

Neither since I’m pointing out Spvp and WvW are completely different.

You don’t have to use it instantly to swap since it has a 5 second wait period. The sword clones are usually kittened and use the entire sword combo against air if the enemy moves so it can be used during that time if you sacrifice the immobilize. Plus it baits dodges since if you see a Illusionary Leap being cast you pretty much have to dodge.

Burnfall.9573:

Valentin.2073:

i wonder if an ele and a thief engage in a 1v1 battle, who’s gonna come out as a victor? what do you think, guys? btw, i saw a spirit ranger lose to a really good ele 1 time in soloq.

Thief vs Elementalist

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qp0qu0fXPNc

Elementalist vs Thief

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SQvI4XKHd9A

In conclusion, they both are victor, as long both play well and one survives

This is the Spvp forum and Thieves are 10x stronger in WvW. First video the Thief had food and tuning crystal with perplexity runes against an Elementalist who didn’t.

You are comparing a boon that every class can get to a healing weapon skill. Guardians can use regeneration with Virtue of Resolve at the same time and they can give perma of both to their team while also having a ton of other healing skills and traits with the possibility of the highest healing power stat in the game. Plus Empower gives 12 stacks of might so…

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Swap
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Stealth
Traited you get 2 stun breaks and one on a 6 seconds cooldown and the other on a 7.5 with both weapons.

Prysin.8542:

Rangers and Eles aren’t weak, they are actually quite good, both of them. It is just that other professions have overtaken them in the two things they used to excel at, AOE DPS and waterfields/group healing.

Laugh all you want, but eating 12x 1.1k damage from barrage HURTS, and yes, you can hit that high even on PVT guards.

Eles need lower CD’s on group support skills and better RAW dps.. That is the main grief of eles. They got the power, the skills, the AOE. They just can’t spam.

Rangers just need a solid damage boost, pets need twice their current HP, spirits need to get rid of the timer system and make them killable (like necro minions. ATM, spirits is like a lame mix of guardian spirit weapons and necro minions)

Is Lava Font and their AoE massive damage auto attack not enough spam? Rangers need help obviously since they are just worst Elementalists in zergs.

jimmyimo.2089:

glaphen.5230:

for the same survivability

I laughed.

PU gives one extra second of stealth and randomly one of 3 buffs each seconds. With the build posted it gives you at most an extra 5 seconds of stealth per 90 seconds. You have 18 seconds of stealth max every 90 seconds and will most likely receive 25 seconds worth of protection in that time randomly with about 4k healing and 4 single hit blocks. For that you are sacrificing about 40% damage and the possibility of a 12 second long invulnerability with projectile reflection on during it.

Prysin.8542:

Lopez.7369:

Penguin.5197:

Hard counters are there for stopping easy mode play from becoming too rampant.

And soloing 3 people at once? lol I’m guessing none of you bothered to take power at all and probably all ran bunky condition stats. Seriously all you had to do was have one person with a power build and he would have dropped easily.

That doesn’t make any sense. Diamond Skin is the definition of easy mode play. It’s a passive that makes other passives stronger.

Besides, that’s not the right philosophy toward balance. Easy play should be made naturally unrewarding and countered by stronger play. That’s basic game design.

I’m also not sure what easy play you’re talking about. Are you suggesting that engineer is easy to play? And what makes condition builds any easier than power builds? How is a phantasm mesmer or minion master necromancer more difficult to play than condition builds?

oZii.2864:

Not everyone runs 30/20/0/0/20 condition build, I run 30/20/20/0/0 on my Necro because greater marks is a powerful trait. I see more condition Necro’s running greater marks now then 30/20/0/0/20 standard Terrormancer.

Everyone does at high-level play, which is where balance needs to be focused on.

Your response misses the broader point of the post, anyway.

Well, last time Anet tried to introduce a “soft counter” was with stealth. They gave rangers the ability to apply revealed. Look how efficient that was.
The devs at Anet might need to reflect upon the saying “There is a difference between shaving and cutting ones head off” (poorly translated from my own language, sorry).

They seem to make fairly balanced “hard counters”.

Necro OP -> hammer warrior
Can hammer warrior be beaten? -> yes, it can.
Conditions OP -> The profession with the hardest time dealing with those, ele, got diamond skin
Can diamond skin be dealt with -> yes it can.

Elementalist the class that has the hardest time dealing with conditions. Seriously?

DoYourBestBear.6810:

pedrst.3127:

Imo this kind of build should be nerfed to be in pair with the other classes as well, don’t you think?

Actually, yes. At the moment, however, a warrior has access to more stability (not necessarily group wide) and more condition removal for the GROUP per minute than a guardian – not to mention banner regeneration is far stronger than Virtue of Resolve.

How exactly does a Warrior have more group condition removal than a Guardian. Warrior only has it through traits and runes since the only thing that naturally removes it is “Shake It Off!” and Charge removing snares. A Guardian places down a mark and spins through it with greatsword and gone is all the conditions from his group. Also Guardians can get AoE passive Virtue of Resolve on his group too plus perma regeneration.

jimmyimo.2089:

glaphen.5230:

PU is only good for trolling since it doesn’t really hurt people who ignore clones.

See here – PU Phanty; have fun being unbeatable.

http://intothemists.com/calc/?build=-Ng-FR;0VPVz067;171;9;49JT;02;019-36B;4U-k6C;1Ewk2Ewk25BF

That build is pointless for anything but trolling as I said. You could use the same utilities and make it a phantasm build without that waste of 30 points for the same survivability and the ability to kill people. Real PU is taking clone death traits with a condition build.

Oozo.7856:

The chances that a condi necro runs with lich form just in case they run across a diamond skin elementalist are pretty close to zero. :P

The chances that a condition Necromancer finds an Elementalist taking Diamond Skin is around the same.

If phoenix tokens are that cheap you might as well remove rank based chests now.

Straegen.2938:

Oozo.7856:

Oh, so you are saying that you can’t block, dodge, invuln, blind, reflect attacks that put conditions on you? Interesting.

Only some of them not all of them. Most DD invulns do not work against existing conditions, many conditions (such as wells and marks) are blind immune, condition application frequently ignores blocks, etc. Many conditions are applied when you hit someone or walk over an area which cannot be avoided aside from these two trait lines and the right circumstances.

There are FAR more ways to mitigate and avoid direct damage. There are even more direct damage invulns than there are condition ones.

This post is full of false statements.

melodey.4652:

glaphen.5230:

Mesmer has all the tools possible to win any one on one and losing shows a lack of skill on your part not the enemy. Maybe you are fighting baddies with other classes and when someone decent shows up you die and blame your class?

Glad my ability to waste roaming Bronze Squire mesmers on my newly minted engi sporting Recruit rank is due to me being a baws and not bc of my build being the achilles heel to mes builds. You have given zero indication of experience in your incorrect generalized statements. If I may sum up, according to you all mesmers should be running cheese conditions with every possible condition coping skill and should be running away from any and all condition builds, aka 75% of the roaming scene. As long as you do that youre unbeatable and a total baddie if you’re not running such a build. You sir, are the very definition of a kitten.

Rank=/=Skill. Rank generally is a gauge of how much they zerg and not roaming that gives low amounts of rank points. No Mesmers can run any viable build they want and still be the kings of one on ones. Also 75% of the roaming scene is Thieves with D/P. Game isn’t balanced around one on one or WvW so I really don’t know what you want but Mesmers are the best one on one class is a fact in any mode of play. Again all I also said you weren’t skilled enough to avoid conditions. All posts you keep doing just keep giving more and more examples of the bad. Also I do not see myself as a kitten.

Reikou.7068:

just need to nerf it like RtL. If it doesn’t hit a target = double CD.

The stars must align for it to hit an enemy.

It’s just so good that you can’t even tell it’s there.

borrok.9267:

glaphen.5230:

borrok.9267:

glaphen.5230:

borrok.9267:

glaphen.5230:

borrok.9267:

glaphen.5230:

SQLOwns.7316:

glaphen.5230:

Warriors have had the highest population since they were known as the worst class in the game.

Find me 5 players who are not trolling to admit that war is the worst class in the game and I will give you 100 gold.

"since""were" Now they aren’t and Rangers are and even if I found them you would take them all as troll posts. They are still the worst one on one class in the game against good players.

Bad players fighting good players has nothing to do with class. Just because you are bad doesn’t mean the class is. Warrior is one of the undisputed BEST classes in several areas. The only reason I’m replying to your troll posts is so that other newcomers that aren’t familiar with classes don’t start taking what you say seriously.

Warrior is the best at absolutely nothing besides sheer population which its had since it was the best at being the worst at everything.

You don’t say? I wonder why that could be.

Tell me why they have had it since launch as the worst class in the game please?

Obviously because they AREN’T the worst class, and people very typically in EVERY game play as the better classes.

You may be right, the reason is because of the Hundred Blade complaints everyone rolled Warrior till they realized it was useless when people learned to play. They were also the easiest class to PvE with so every casual flocked to it and everyone just decided to stick with the class they put all their effort into even though everyone with a brain knew they were bad at everything at that point. Why do you think the Warrior balance changes even happened? I’m sure its because ANet just wants to make the strongest class in the game better although they do this every patch anyways.

I don’t mean to sound rude but I stopped reading after that lol

Doesn’t mean that you are right but what I listed was the only possibility of you being right.

borrok.9267:

glaphen.5230:

borrok.9267:

glaphen.5230:

borrok.9267:

glaphen.5230:

SQLOwns.7316:

glaphen.5230:

Warriors have had the highest population since they were known as the worst class in the game.

Find me 5 players who are not trolling to admit that war is the worst class in the game and I will give you 100 gold.

"since""were" Now they aren’t and Rangers are and even if I found them you would take them all as troll posts. They are still the worst one on one class in the game against good players.

Bad players fighting good players has nothing to do with class. Just because you are bad doesn’t mean the class is. Warrior is one of the undisputed BEST classes in several areas. The only reason I’m replying to your troll posts is so that other newcomers that aren’t familiar with classes don’t start taking what you say seriously.

Warrior is the best at absolutely nothing besides sheer population which its had since it was the best at being the worst at everything.

You don’t say? I wonder why that could be.

Tell me why they have had it since launch as the worst class in the game please?

Obviously because they AREN’T the worst class, and people very typically in EVERY game play as the better classes.

You may be right, the reason is because of the Hundred Blade complaints everyone rolled Warrior till they realized it was useless when people learned to play. They were also the easiest class to PvE with so every casual flocked to it and everyone just decided to stick with the class they put all their effort into even though everyone with a brain knew they were bad at everything at that point. Why do you think the Warrior balance changes even happened? I’m sure its because ANet just wants to make the strongest class in the game better although they do this every patch anyways.

RashanDale.3609:

glaphen.5230:

Bombsaway.7198:

Balance is just as much about perception as reality.
You don’t want people even thinking that certain classes are “top shelf” and others are “underpowered” even if you want to scream “but that isn’t how either class should be played”.

So, if you find a population gravitating too heavily to some classes and builds, you are by definition out of balance. The game is designed around having all the classes be played more or less equally in WvW, PvE, PvP etc.

So the “eyeball” test for WvW is what classes are over represented. Then you ask, what do you have to do to change that to bring other classes “into parity”?

Now mind you, just because a class has/doesn’t numbers doesn’t mean it is balanced/unbalanced from a power and usefulness standpoint.

You have to balance for both.

But the two are TYPICALLY well correlated.

On that premise, melee is too prevalent (warriors/guardians). There are too few eles and rangers. In short, to achieve balance you need to make these classes more desirable.

Warriors have had the highest population since they were known as the worst class in the game.

you kittening kidding, right?
maybe they were considered bad in that dead minigame that is called ‘s/tpvp’, but never in WvW. And in PvE theyre by far the best class since release.

They weren’t even close till a couple months ago when the dungeon changes happened. Even then Warriors were only the best for the easiest dungeons in the game as the easiest way to clear it fast. I really don’t remember any hammer complaints before this and conditions were non existant so Berserker Stance shouldn’t matter plus Healing Signet is terrible in a zerg.

borrok.9267:

glaphen.5230:

borrok.9267:

glaphen.5230:

SQLOwns.7316:

glaphen.5230:

Warriors have had the highest population since they were known as the worst class in the game.

Find me 5 players who are not trolling to admit that war is the worst class in the game and I will give you 100 gold.

"since""were" Now they aren’t and Rangers are and even if I found them you would take them all as troll posts. They are still the worst one on one class in the game against good players.

Bad players fighting good players has nothing to do with class. Just because you are bad doesn’t mean the class is. Warrior is one of the undisputed BEST classes in several areas. The only reason I’m replying to your troll posts is so that other newcomers that aren’t familiar with classes don’t start taking what you say seriously.

Warrior is the best at absolutely nothing besides sheer population which its had since it was the best at being the worst at everything.

You don’t say? I wonder why that could be.

Tell me why they have had it since launch as the worst class in the game please?

borrok.9267:

glaphen.5230:

SQLOwns.7316:

glaphen.5230:

Warriors have had the highest population since they were known as the worst class in the game.

Find me 5 players who are not trolling to admit that war is the worst class in the game and I will give you 100 gold.

"since""were" Now they aren’t and Rangers are and even if I found them you would take them all as troll posts. They are still the worst one on one class in the game against good players.

Bad players fighting good players has nothing to do with class. Just because you are bad doesn’t mean the class is. Warrior is one of the undisputed BEST classes in several areas. The only reason I’m replying to your troll posts is so that other newcomers that aren’t familiar with classes don’t start taking what you say seriously.

Warrior is the best at absolutely nothing besides sheer population which its had since it was the best at being the worst at everything.

Antares.2586:

1200 on Greatsword Rush is too long. Probably a 900 rush like Fiery Sword would be more balanced.

That has 10 second cooldown while Rush has 20 and it leaves a burning trail godly against anyone stuck against a wall from immobilize/stun. Comparing a weapon set to an elite is stupid since the weapon set is worth far more. Also the whirl has double the range with half the cooldown.

SQLOwns.7316:

glaphen.5230:

Warriors have had the highest population since they were known as the worst class in the game.

Find me 5 players who are not trolling to admit that war is the worst class in the game and I will give you 100 gold.

"since""were" Now they aren’t and Rangers are and even if I found them you would take them all as troll posts. They are still the worst one on one class in the game against good players.

Mesmer has all the tools possible to win any one on one and losing shows a lack of skill on your part not the enemy. Maybe you are fighting baddies with other classes and when someone decent shows up you die and blame your class?

How exactly is stating facts trolling to you now?

melodey.4652:

glaphen.5230:

melodey.4652:

glaphen.5230:

melodey.4652:

Have No Faith In Me.1840:

ArmageddonAsh.6430:

Say that to mesmer and Necromancer. The only light class that would even stand a chance would be Ele and that would depend on the distance. Mesmer have Blink but it is rather weak considering its the only movement option (dont count Portal in a race) but hey, at least it has SOMETHING Necromancer doesnt even get that.

So, there goes your " light classes are still the fastest inside of combat with their mobility skills."

Did you just say mesmer has no mobility? Holy hell you’re worse at this game than I thought.

Please don’t argue unless you know what you’re talking about, frankly its embarrasing.

A mesmer should be taking only an occasional hit by a full melee warrior, no mesmer should EVER lose to a full melee warrior.

A mesmer that loses to melee warrior = bad.

For a giant condescending paragraph, you’re simply incorrect and come off as a pretty silly kitten.
-mains a roaming mes

Losing one on one with a roaming Mesmer ever is a pretty big declaration you aren’t good at this game.

I don’t know why I’m responding to ppl with no guild or server sig, I already see t1 pros posting. First of all, to the people talking about “pu mesmers”, you might want to go more specific. A mesmer traited for pu can be defensive, offensive, conditions, power, shatter, or phantasm. Torch optional. “Pu” means little about their overall build other than they probably carry at least 2 forms of stealth. Secondly, warriors pose two challengeds for a phantasm mes (I will speak of that build since I run it most)- exiting the fight and either regenning fully only to immediately come back before mes is full health, and glassy warriors with lockdown, usually bulls charge, shield but I’ve seen bow used that way too. People who are making general comments about mesmers beating errbody haven’t played competent roamers as a mesmer or aren’t competent themselves against a mesmer. The exception is when you introduce perplexity into the equation- war or mes. Run away or die to it, your choice.

A good PU Mesmer is one taking on clone death traits on a condition build and nothing else. Phantasm and Shatter can’t afford the points that are a waste for hybrid with PU. Losing to a Warrior with that build one on one would be a terrible declaration of your skill once again and if they run who cares since they will never kill anyone with that build unlike a Thief. Mesmers are the best one on one class pretty much no matter what build they play and should never ever lose one on one but don’t have the chasing ability to kill people who don’t commit to a fight or get tons of cripple from berserker without the ability to remove it.

Lol wat. You obviously have never played a roaming mesmer. We get wasted by condition builds even running melandru runes and soup. Honestly I’ve seen enough of your generalized drabble to mark your arguments as invalid. Come back and post after you’ve played as a roaming mes against roamers, plz and ty.

If you aren’t built for fighting condition builds and not good enough to avoid them then don’t fight someone who looks like a condition build? If you aren’t built with any mobility at all then why are you roaming?

Bombsaway.7198:

Balance is just as much about perception as reality.
You don’t want people even thinking that certain classes are “top shelf” and others are “underpowered” even if you want to scream “but that isn’t how either class should be played”.

So, if you find a population gravitating too heavily to some classes and builds, you are by definition out of balance. The game is designed around having all the classes be played more or less equally in WvW, PvE, PvP etc.

So the “eyeball” test for WvW is what classes are over represented. Then you ask, what do you have to do to change that to bring other classes “into parity”?

Now mind you, just because a class has/doesn’t numbers doesn’t mean it is balanced/unbalanced from a power and usefulness standpoint.

You have to balance for both.

But the two are TYPICALLY well correlated.

On that premise, melee is too prevalent (warriors/guardians). There are too few eles and rangers. In short, to achieve balance you need to make these classes more desirable.

Warriors have had the highest population since they were known as the worst class in the game.

melodey.4652:

glaphen.5230:

melodey.4652:

Have No Faith In Me.1840:

ArmageddonAsh.6430:

Say that to mesmer and Necromancer. The only light class that would even stand a chance would be Ele and that would depend on the distance. Mesmer have Blink but it is rather weak considering its the only movement option (dont count Portal in a race) but hey, at least it has SOMETHING Necromancer doesnt even get that.

So, there goes your " light classes are still the fastest inside of combat with their mobility skills."

Did you just say mesmer has no mobility? Holy hell you’re worse at this game than I thought.

Please don’t argue unless you know what you’re talking about, frankly its embarrasing.

A mesmer should be taking only an occasional hit by a full melee warrior, no mesmer should EVER lose to a full melee warrior.

A mesmer that loses to melee warrior = bad.

For a giant condescending paragraph, you’re simply incorrect and come off as a pretty silly kitten.
-mains a roaming mes

Losing one on one with a roaming Mesmer ever is a pretty big declaration you aren’t good at this game.

I don’t know why I’m responding to ppl with no guild or server sig, I already see t1 pros posting. First of all, to the people talking about “pu mesmers”, you might want to go more specific. A mesmer traited for pu can be defensive, offensive, conditions, power, shatter, or phantasm. Torch optional. “Pu” means little about their overall build other than they probably carry at least 2 forms of stealth. Secondly, warriors pose two challengeds for a phantasm mes (I will speak of that build since I run it most)- exiting the fight and either regenning fully only to immediately come back before mes is full health, and glassy warriors with lockdown, usually bulls charge, shield but I’ve seen bow used that way too. People who are making general comments about mesmers beating errbody haven’t played competent roamers as a mesmer or aren’t competent themselves against a mesmer. The exception is when you introduce perplexity into the equation- war or mes. Run away or die to it, your choice.

A good PU Mesmer is one taking on clone death traits on a condition build and nothing else. Phantasm and Shatter can’t afford the points that are a waste for hybrid with PU. Losing to a Warrior with that build one on one would be a terrible declaration of your skill once again and if they run who cares since they will never kill anyone with that build unlike a Thief. Mesmers are the best one on one class pretty much no matter what build they play and should never ever lose one on one but don’t have the chasing ability to kill people who don’t commit to a fight or get tons of cripple from berserker without the ability to remove it.

SQLOwns.7316:

glaphen.5230:

Bombsaway.7198:

MOST classes are fairly balanced.

2 Classes need to move down to the middle.
2 Classes need to move up to the middle.
In each case, ONE class is needing to move up/down far more than the other.
This should be ANet’s focus.

Warrior and Guardian are too OP and need to come down some.

Warrior has too many areas where it is too strong or top tier with no corresponding weakness. I needs the most nerfing.
Guardians need modest toning down.
Few non-warriors/guardians would disagree. Many would disagree over how and how much (that is the real question).

In general, melee needs to be toned down making ranged more significant.
Needless, to say, the two classes needing boosts are ranged.

Ranger needs a buff. Few would disagree even if they think you can play a ranger in WvW (skill beats challenges). Still, they need attention and much more than any other class. Part of it is the wonky pet mechanics. Part of it is the traits being bunched oddly that promotes over reaching in a skill line for a trait versus build diversity and common sense.

Elementalist is probably the second class needing a bit of attention. They have their moments (where the ranger has moments by player not class) but overall need a bit more.

Zerker staff Elementalist is the best zerging class in the game and needs no help in that department. Everything a Ranger does in WvW a staff Elementalist does better in just fire attunement.

Picture of zerker ele owning players, or never happen….Eles need a flat dmg increase to make them as useful as other classes, or a rework.

Lava Font and Meteor Shower are the hardest hitting spells in the game for anti zerg. They also come with area supportx4 and area stunsx4 just from their weapon set. They die and just move even further away from the enemy zerg where they can be revived from all their tags or by the ally zerg they just plopped onto. Also it wouldn’t let me edit my last post but the main reason quickness was nerfed was because of quickness stomps and especially revives. A Ranger uses his short cooldown pet swap to instantly revive an ally in those two seconds and every Ranger had it since it was a 15 point minor trait.

Samhayn.2385:

glaphen.5230:

Samhayn.2385:

glaphen.5230:

Samhayn.2385:

glaphen.5230:

ArmageddonAsh.6430:

glaphen.5230:

Leveling up characters takes skill news at 11. Just because you do not know how to counter my arguments and have to result to insults does not make me a troll. Also none of those classes really have any bad projectiles besides a couple rarely used Mesmer skills. You don’t know bad projectiles till you’ve played Guardian, Ranger and Warrior.

You have no arguments, its all based on different situations, different skills, different this and different that. Your arguments are nothing but opinion, bad ones at that.

You have shown that you have NO idea what you are talking about, Dark Path good? what you been smoking.

Please tell me how your arguments are any different besides that they are based off a 30/30/30/30/30 4 weapon set Warrior against a guy with no arms playing Necromancer. I just played Necromancer for 2 hours in Spvp again and Dark Path pathing is amazing in comparison to other projectiles. My arguments are all based off facts while yours are entirely what you’ve seen while being terrible. Also balance is completely impossible and no MMO game will ever be balanced.

dark path is a slow moving projectile that you can dodge, you see it coming and dodge thru it. O wait never mind you have two hours of necro play in hot join pvp you must be an expert now, my bad.

See the problem is you have only played Necromancer and not the other classes with projectiles. Dark Path is a homing projectile that can be cast from behind if you start from the front. I don’t care how easy it is to dodge because Necromancers have a ton of skills that are more important to dodge unlike Warrior that you clearly don’t know how to fight against. As I said in my earlier posts Warriors have only 4 ranged cc so although hammer has 3 cc, he wont ever hit with the other two if you don’t get hit by Earthshaker and he probably lacks the other 3 ranged cc. Also as I said earlier you won’t escape a power Necromancer without teleports. A good Necromancer starts off with Locust Swarm before he casts Lich Form and possibly a Dark Path, Signet of Spite or Spectral Grasp if the enemy isn’t near you.

besides the guardian and thief in my SIG I also have an 80 mesmer and an 80 warrior, I have a thing for trying to know my enemy. Getting Into melee as a warrior should not really be a problem. You have good mobility. Playing a power necro and having played as a Condi burst necro I can tell you hammer warriors built to last(not zerker) can and do counter necro. As of the last patch where hammer damage got put in line I see warriors moving away from it and now I have started to see Gs axe/warhorn much easier to deal with but harder to catch.

A hammer Warrior with mobility has to be using a greatsword or a sword which means he is sacrificing a possibility of 1 or 2 cc skills that these Necromancers complain so much of. No class has the condition removal to handle a condition Necromancer one on one so no it cannot last long at all after the initial Berserker Stance. They wont be hitting with a burst skill to proc Cleansing Ire if they aren’t using long bow and if they are a shout build they don’t even have Berserker Stance most likely. Greatsword and axe/warhorn is a spec made to counter snares but it is still useless against anyone with any in combat mobility skills in the slightest once they switch to axe and they lack all forms of cc and survivability besides stances. They also won’t be doing any damage without berserker gear. Getting into melee range against any skilled opponent is completely impossible without using greatsword or sword which only do their good damage against targets that don’t move. Warrior is an easy to play class but also the easiest class in the game to counter play with basic player skills. Problem is everyone who still plays this game lacks these basic skills now. This is once again the Hundred Blades complaints at the start of the game when no one knew how to play. Suddenly without any nerfs or buffs all the complaints started dying out and Elementalists without receiving any buffs thought they were the worst class started being god mode.

I’m glad you can assume no one in the game but you knows anything about counter play. You do know hundred blades was nerfed when anet nerfed quickness? It wasn’t hundred blades that was the problem it was the ability to pull it off when under quickness making it super fast. This change also nerfed pistol whip seeing a decline in s/p thieves for awhile.

It was actually to nerf Rangers who could get the most uptime by far. Why do you think they buffed the quickness skills of Thief and Warrior after but not Ranger for awhile.

Eloquence.5207:

Sunt.6835:

Eloquence.5207:

Sunt.6835:

I haven’t seen a warrior winning 1 v 1 with Pu Mesmer or condi thieve yet ….

Best thing to do when seeing a PU Mesmer: run away. He/she possesses little to no chasing ability, and will not hinder your zergs. Guess who has good mobility? Warrior.

I did that a couple time when i played on my warrior and that Pu mes immediately spammed emote laugh

Grab more hammer bros and kill that PU Mesmer. /laugh back.

You can’t seriously be implying a PU Mesmer would ever die to even 50 hammer Warriors chasing him.

Throw Axe is main hand only and Savage Leap has terrible accuracy unless you aim it without a target.

Mike.5193:

Sword/axe + Warhammer = so much immobilize it isn’t funny. Just use Leg Specialist.

Sword hardly ever hits with Savage Leap and if they used Flurry there goes the adrenaline for Earthshaker. It also won’t do any damage without going berserker with Merciless Hammer. It still wouldn’t kill anything without Frenzy and I have no idea why you would use the axe off hand for any purpose. The build is better going berserker with greatsword/hammer, Frenzy, Bull’s Charge and whatever survivability skill. Also without cast cancelling or condition duration the immobilize wont last long enough for Earthshaker to hit besides a timed Blade Trail.

melodey.4652:

Have No Faith In Me.1840:

ArmageddonAsh.6430:

Say that to mesmer and Necromancer. The only light class that would even stand a chance would be Ele and that would depend on the distance. Mesmer have Blink but it is rather weak considering its the only movement option (dont count Portal in a race) but hey, at least it has SOMETHING Necromancer doesnt even get that.

So, there goes your " light classes are still the fastest inside of combat with their mobility skills."

Did you just say mesmer has no mobility? Holy hell you’re worse at this game than I thought.

Please don’t argue unless you know what you’re talking about, frankly its embarrasing.

A mesmer should be taking only an occasional hit by a full melee warrior, no mesmer should EVER lose to a full melee warrior.

A mesmer that loses to melee warrior = bad.

For a giant condescending paragraph, you’re simply incorrect and come off as a pretty silly kitten.
-mains a roaming mes

Losing one on one with a roaming Mesmer ever is a pretty big declaration you aren’t good at this game.