Guild Wars 2

Ayrilana.1396:

glaphen.5230:

Ayrilana.1396:

glaphen.5230:

Straylight.7529:

glaphen.5230:

29 entire pies of pizza>4, alright 8>1, 5 per class>1. Tell me the stories of the single player games with 1,000s of hours of content besides dwarf fortress. I don’t know how you think those 4 maps are as big as 29 somehow.

They don’t need to be as big as 29 maps. HoT is an expansion and not GW3 afterall. The cost for the expansion is 50$ which is pretty much standard for expansions.

If you think 50$ is too much than that’s your decision but judging from the beta weekends and what we’ve seen so far from the Verdant Brink map you’re gonna miss out big time!

I have never seen an expansion offer so little for the same price as the base game, name me some other expansions like this.

Eye of the North cost about $45 and offered much less than Heart of Thorns. Oh, in case you were not aware, GW2 cost $60 at launch while the expansion costs $50.

$60 /= $50

The expansion introduces:

41 new armor sets, including rare, stand-alone pieces
100 new profession-specific skills (10 per profession, none of which are elite)
50 new PvE only skills including 3 elite skills
10 new heroes
18 Dungeons
124 new quests
The Hall of Monuments, a place which allows you to obtain unique titles, companions, weapons, armor, and miniatures in Guild Wars 2 based on your achievements in the original Guild Wars. The Hall of Monuments does not support the transfer of characters or gold.

Actions have more consequences. For example, if you lose NPCs that help you, you can choose to continue without them (and their help) instead of being forced to try again (although you may start over with a clean slate by going back to town). Similarly, if you rescue NPCs, they may join you and help you.

More than the previous campaigns, Eye of the North is full of easter eggs and “hidden” quests, which are not immediately accessible.
4 new regions

Charr Homelands

The green homeland of the Charr, north of Ascalon and east to the Far Shiverpeaks.

Depths of Tyria

An immense interconnected underground complex of natural caves and excavated areas underneath Tyria.

Far Shiverpeaks

A desolate mountain range to the north of the Shiverpeak Mountains we know. It is home to the Norn and the Ebon Vanguard.

Tarnished Coast

An area of high magical energy, and home to the Asura.

From the wiki. Do I really need to list the amount this adds in comparison?

Congrats. You can copy and paste from the wiki.

Compare what it offered to Prophecies.

4 new regions vs 6 base, 124 new quests vs 205 base, going off just monk skills 10 new skills vs 40 base, http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Armor_art, 18 new dungeons vs 0 base, 10 heroes vs 0 base. Totally similar to the 15% of the stuff it actually adds in this but it’s more like 50%+ for all of them.

Straylight.7529:

glaphen.5230:

Straylight.7529:

glaphen.5230:

Straylight.7529:

glaphen.5230:

I have never seen an expansion offer so little for the same price as the base game, name me some other expansions like this.

Are you refering to expansions of MMO’s where you have to pay a monthly fee?

Yes

Warlords of Draenor: Costs 50$ plus another 15$ per month. Does if offer more content per dollar than HoT?

Heavensward: Costs 40$ plus another 12-15$ per month. Does it offer more content per dollar than HoT?

Hell, no!

As I said earlier these games have a fluff level cap increase to restart grinds and add new skills and still have five times the content this gives. It was GW2s choice not to go subscription, it wasn’t made for it, it would have died like Wildstar had it been subscription.

Nope, they don’t. That is simply not true.

-Did the 7 maps we got in Warlords of Dreanor (6 at release) offer five times more content than the 4 HoT maps?

-Did the ashran pvp-zone offer five times more content than stronghold + new WvW map?

-Did the garrisons offer five time more content than guild halls?

- Did they add five times more skills than the combined number of skills we get across all specializations?

and you have to pay a subscription fee on top of that if you want continual access!

It initially included eight 5-man dungeons and two raids.⁵ There was also a rebalancing of raid difficulty by the addition of a new difficulty called Mythic, which became the hardest version of the raid system that requires exactly 20 players, while the easiest is 25 player raid finder (or “Looking For Raid”) and it expanded flexible raiding to include normal and heroic difficulty, allowing groups to range from 10 to 30 players and the enemies scale dynamically depending on the raid size.⁶⁷ Players are able to build and upgrade their own garrison, a personal area in which they can recruit non-player characters (NPC) to carry out missions to earn the player or NPC experience and items. The garrison is assembled from the individual buildings like stables or armories, increasing their size and modifying their appearance.⁸

The development team made a number of changes to the player versus player (PvP) aspects of the game. They altered the way that PvP items behave when players fight, reducing crowd control abilities, and added a new PvP-focused island area called Ashran containing various objectives and battles for players to participate in.⁹

From the wiki it sounds like more to me 8 dungeons and 2 raids with multiple difficulty levels. Garrisons, I haven’t even bothered looking at guild halls but I’m pretty sure it’s free in the base game, if not only the leader would need to buy it. Haven’t played WoW in since BC so I would not know how much this adds but the new mode in this is just Alterac Valley lite-mini as I said earlier, they are also do balancing work it says and GW2 never does that any good whenever they actually try. Skills added it is pretty much exactly 150 pay only skills added which includes every single skill of the new class and I haven’t played WoW since BC so I have no idea what is new. No idea but WoW maps are bigger than GW2 maps from what I remember.

Ayrilana.1396:

glaphen.5230:

Straylight.7529:

glaphen.5230:

29 entire pies of pizza>4, alright 8>1, 5 per class>1. Tell me the stories of the single player games with 1,000s of hours of content besides dwarf fortress. I don’t know how you think those 4 maps are as big as 29 somehow.

They don’t need to be as big as 29 maps. HoT is an expansion and not GW3 afterall. The cost for the expansion is 50$ which is pretty much standard for expansions.

If you think 50$ is too much than that’s your decision but judging from the beta weekends and what we’ve seen so far from the Verdant Brink map you’re gonna miss out big time!

I have never seen an expansion offer so little for the same price as the base game, name me some other expansions like this.

Eye of the North cost about $45 and offered much less than Heart of Thorns. Oh, in case you were not aware, GW2 cost $60 at launch while the expansion costs $50.

$60 /= $50

The expansion introduces:

41 new armor sets, including rare, stand-alone pieces
100 new profession-specific skills (10 per profession, none of which are elite)
50 new PvE only skills including 3 elite skills
10 new heroes
18 Dungeons
124 new quests
The Hall of Monuments, a place which allows you to obtain unique titles, companions, weapons, armor, and miniatures in Guild Wars 2 based on your achievements in the original Guild Wars. The Hall of Monuments does not support the transfer of characters or gold.

Actions have more consequences. For example, if you lose NPCs that help you, you can choose to continue without them (and their help) instead of being forced to try again (although you may start over with a clean slate by going back to town). Similarly, if you rescue NPCs, they may join you and help you.

More than the previous campaigns, Eye of the North is full of easter eggs and “hidden” quests, which are not immediately accessible.
4 new regions

Charr Homelands

The green homeland of the Charr, north of Ascalon and east to the Far Shiverpeaks.

Depths of Tyria

An immense interconnected underground complex of natural caves and excavated areas underneath Tyria.

Far Shiverpeaks

A desolate mountain range to the north of the Shiverpeak Mountains we know. It is home to the Norn and the Ebon Vanguard.

Tarnished Coast

An area of high magical energy, and home to the Asura.

From the wiki. Do I really need to list the amount this adds in comparison?

Straylight.7529:

glaphen.5230:

Straylight.7529:

glaphen.5230:

I have never seen an expansion offer so little for the same price as the base game, name me some other expansions like this.

Are you refering to expansions of MMO’s where you have to pay a monthly fee?

Yes

Warlords of Draenor: Costs 50$ plus another 15$ per month. Does if offer more content per dollar than HoT?

Heavensward: Costs 40$ plus another 12-15$ per month. Does it offer more content per dollar than HoT?

Hell, no!

As I said earlier these games have a fluff level cap increase to restart grinds and add new skills and still have five times the content this gives. It was GW2s choice not to go subscription, it wasn’t made for it, it would have died like Wildstar had it been subscription.

Straylight.7529:

glaphen.5230:

I have never seen an expansion offer so little for the same price as the base game, name me some other expansions like this.

Are you refering to expansions of MMO’s where you have to pay a monthly fee?

Yes any MMO, monthly fees/B2P/cash shops are models just like GW2 B2P plus cash shop if GW2 was a subscription game too it would have turned into Wildstar .50.

Straylight.7529:

glaphen.5230:

29 entire pies of pizza>4, alright 8>1, 5 per class>1. Tell me the stories of the single player games with 1,000s of hours of content besides dwarf fortress. I don’t know how you think those 4 maps are as big as 29 somehow.

They don’t need to be as big as 29 maps. HoT is an expansion and not GW3 afterall. The cost for the expansion is 50$ which is pretty much standard for expansions.

If you think 50$ is too much than that’s your decision but judging from the beta weekends and what we’ve seen so far from the Verdant Brink map you’re gonna miss out big time!

I have never seen an expansion offer so little for the same price as the base game, name me some other expansions like this.

Ayrilana.1396:

glaphen.5230:

Pretty basic math 29 maps with 4 new ones, 9 classes with 1 new one, 5 trait lines with 1 new one.

So you have an two identical pizzas.

The amount of pizza you get when it’s cut into 29 slices vs 4 slices is different.
The amount of pizza you get when it’s cut into 9 slices vs the whole pizza is different.

FYI: It’s 8 classes vs 1 new class. It’s also 9 new trait lines and not 5 with 1 new one.

glaphen.5230:

Sequels=/=Expansion

Content is content. If you truly believe you can’t compare then tell that to DistantStatic and anyone else that uses GW1 as a means to compare.

glaphen.5230:

Single player=/=MMO.

Doesn’t matter as the content is ratios between two single player games is similar to that of two MMO games. Especially when the content between the two single player games is being used to address a point that you are failing to understand such as a belief that everything comes down to quantity without any consideration to other factors.

glaphen.5230:

List the other factors please because I already listed everything this expansion has at least twice.

You listed quantities of maps and such. Two identical pizzas cut different ways still contain the same amount of pizza as the other. According to you they are different when in actuality they are the same. The reason why they are the same is but one of the factors that I’ve been trying to get through to you.

29 entire pies of pizza>4, alright 8>1, 5 per class>1. Tell me the stories of the single player games with 1,000s of hours of content besides dwarf fortress. I don’t know how you think those 4 maps are as big as 29 somehow.

Ayrilana.1396:

glaphen.5230:

Ayrilana.1396:

Again. I’m not solely buying the expansion for the story. I’m buying it for everything that it contains. I don’t see where you made the connection between mean listing one thing that Anet has not revealed yet to it being the reason why I bought the expansion.

Alright if you feel that around a 15% addition to the few things they added in this expansion is worth the same price as the 100% at launch then there is no use arguing with you. That 15% is also only for the things added 29>4, 9>1, 5>1, there are still tons of other things in the base game this thing doesn’t touch on and the only other things it adds is a pointless grind for mastery to do things better in those 4 maps only and a worse version of a vanilla WoW map for PvP. Also I just looked at raids and they are apparently only 10 man dungeons when we already had 100+ man world bosses. Also if we want to add more, it adds 60+ cosmetics but there is 19 weapons and 19 armor slots so what is this 1.5 cosmetics per slot, how many are there normally in game since I already have at least 1,000 unlocked and don’t have even one collectible achievement maxed on my account. So the amount of added content to the total of the game is like what less than 5% of the base game for the same price?

Where are you pulling this 15% from or is that just some percentage you made up?

You seem to be under the false assumption that all games that cost $60 contain the same amount of content. They don’t and the same goes for the expansions. The amount of content from all of them vary. I paid like $50 for Super Mario Bros 3 and $50 for Mario 64. One contained 90 levels while the other contained 15. Based on your reasoning, the one that I paid that contained the 15 levels was a rip off.

The flaw in your logic is that you rely solely on quantity without considering any of the other factors. I can probably make two identical pizzas but cut one to have 6 slices and the other to have 12 slices. You’d think the one with 12 slices was the better deal.

Pretty basic math 29 maps with 4 new ones, 9 classes with 1 new one, 5 trait lines with 1 new one. Sequels=/=Expansion, Single player=/=MMO. List the other factors please because I already listed everything this expansion has at least twice.

Vayne.8563:

glaphen.5230:

Yeah sorry I’m totally going to waste my time to get their exact statement after 3 years and not playing for a year. How was the system not working out exactly? There was no one complaining about not having stronger gear to grind but tons complaining when this crap was released. Why aren’t people complaining for higher tier, come on ANet let’s see raids give higher stat gear than ascended. Also are you ignoring fractals? You need to grind ascended to do fractals so they completely ignored their promises.

There was no one complaining about not getting stronger gear? You weren’t paying attention.

A couple of months after launch, people were leaving this game in droves. Now not all of them said that Anet needed to put vertical progression in, but some of them sure did. What was being said, however, and said often, was that people had nothing to do at 80.

Since a game company can only design new content so fast, and since everyone got exotic items quicker than Anet thought they would, Anet made the only decision it could make. Introduce something that would take longer while new content/a new direction was explored.

I’m sure Anet wasn’t at at happy that people found nothing to do and left. I’m pretty sure they really believed at launch that people would just accept that farming for skins was end game, and some of us did…but many people did not.

I’m sure when you’ve invested millions in the creation of a program, you wouldn’t ever change anything if your initial expectations weren’t working. Fortunately, Anet is a professional game developer and did what they thought they had to.

I don’t like the ascended gear on a personal level, but I know people personally who came back to the game to craft it.

Surely it was because of no gear to grind even though they only added accessories at that point and they already made promises of the opposite so they were getting what they paid for? But I guess it makes sense to kitten off people who bought it for what it was for the people who would leave after a week with nothing left to grind till 2 years later when they grind money.

Azure.8670:

glaphen.5230:

Azure.8670:

im sorry ascended gear drops in many different places. its been out for years. If you dont have a set of ascended gear you have less than 500 hours of play time and arent ready for raids anyway. if you have more than 500 hours and dont have 1-5 sets of ascended armor stop sitting in lions arch mulling around map chat. I have a f2p in my guild thats already working on ascended gear and he just hit level 80.

Haha 500 hours needed for GW2s easy PvE content.

the average person playing since launch has between 3000-6000 hours. 500 hours would mean youve played roughly 6 months to a year. haha?

I’m saying that you are kittened if you think any content in this takes 500 hours of practice to play besides top ranked PvP possibly.

Ayrilana.1396:

Again. I’m not solely buying the expansion for the story. I’m buying it for everything that it contains. I don’t see where you made the connection between mean listing one thing that Anet has not revealed yet to it being the reason why I bought the expansion.

Alright if you feel that around a 15% addition to the few things they added in this expansion is worth the same price as the 100% at launch then there is no use arguing with you. That 15% is also only for the things added 29>4, 9>1, 5>1, there are still tons of other things in the base game this thing doesn’t touch on and the only other things it adds is a pointless grind for mastery to do things better in those 4 maps only and a worse version of a vanilla WoW map for PvP. Also I just looked at raids and they are apparently only 10 man dungeons when we already had 100+ man world bosses. Also if we want to add more, it adds 60+ cosmetics but there is 19 weapons and 19 armor slots so what is this 1.5 cosmetics per slot, how many are there normally in game since I already have at least 1,000 unlocked and don’t have even one collectible achievement maxed on my account. So the amount of added content to the total of the game is like what less than 5% of the base game for the same price?

Ayrilana.1396:

glaphen.5230:

Ayrilana.1396:

glaphen.5230:

Ayrilana.1396:

glaphen.5230:

Ayrilana.1396:

I’ve attached something that should aid you in seeing how many maps there will be.

Whoa let me quickly recalculate the value of this. 29 for 50>4 for 50.

No expansion really provides the same amount of content as its core game. If quantity is all that’s important to you then don’t buy the expansion, or any others, until the total amount of maps reaches 29.

Based on the maps that can be vanquished, since I don’t feel like counting them, Prophecies had 54 maps, Factions had 33 maps, Nightfall had 34 maps, EotN had 15 maps. All of those, especially EotN, contained less maps than Prophecies for roughly the same price. Clearly they were all a rip off.

Yes and then other games expansions usually add a fluff level cap increases to restart the grind and put in new skills and still have five times the content this has and are usually cheaper. Yet those games still had far more content than this and far cheaper.

How do you know how much content the expansion has without playing it?

Because if you look at the link you posted you would see what it has.
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Guild_Wars_2:_Heart_of_Thorns/Frequently_Asked_Questions#Features
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Guild_Wars_2:_Heart_of_Thorns
There’s some more answers. Hiding the contents of a purchase is a bad move so there is no way they have anything left unrevealed.

Anet likes to leave things for players to discover. Not everything in the expansion has been revealed. The story is one example.

If you feel fan fiction tier writing is worth the 50 then be my guest and use that to validate your purchase. Only thing ANet lets players discover are bugs that will never be fixed.

Ayrilana.1396:

glaphen.5230:

Ayrilana.1396:

glaphen.5230:

Ayrilana.1396:

I’ve attached something that should aid you in seeing how many maps there will be.

Whoa let me quickly recalculate the value of this. 29 for 50>4 for 50.

No expansion really provides the same amount of content as its core game. If quantity is all that’s important to you then don’t buy the expansion, or any others, until the total amount of maps reaches 29.

Based on the maps that can be vanquished, since I don’t feel like counting them, Prophecies had 54 maps, Factions had 33 maps, Nightfall had 34 maps, EotN had 15 maps. All of those, especially EotN, contained less maps than Prophecies for roughly the same price. Clearly they were all a rip off.

Yes and then other games expansions usually add a fluff level cap increases to restart the grind and put in new skills and still have five times the content this has and are usually cheaper. Yet those games still had far more content than this and far cheaper.

How do you know how much content the expansion has without playing it?

Because if you look at the link you posted you would see what it has.
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Guild_Wars_2:_Heart_of_Thorns/Frequently_Asked_Questions#Features
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Guild_Wars_2:_Heart_of_Thorns
There’s some more answers. Hiding the contents of a purchase is a bad move so there is no way they have anything left unrevealed.

Ayrilana.1396:

glaphen.5230:

Ayrilana.1396:

I’ve attached something that should aid you in seeing how many maps there will be.

Whoa let me quickly recalculate the value of this. 29 for 50>4 for 50.

No expansion really provides the same amount of content as its core game. If quantity is all that’s important to you then don’t buy the expansion, or any others, until the total amount of maps reaches 29.

Based on the maps that can be vanquished, since I don’t feel like counting them, Prophecies had 54 maps, Factions had 33 maps, Nightfall had 34 maps, EotN had 15 maps. All of those, especially EotN, contained less maps than Prophecies for roughly the same price. Clearly they were all a rip off.

Yes and then other games expansions usually add a fluff level cap increases to restart the grind and put in new skills and still have five times the content this has and are usually cheaper. Yet those games still had far more content than this and far cheaper.

Azure.8670:

im sorry ascended gear drops in many different places. its been out for years. If you dont have a set of ascended gear you have less than 500 hours of play time and arent ready for raids anyway. if you have more than 500 hours and dont have 1-5 sets of ascended armor stop sitting in lions arch mulling around map chat. I have a f2p in my guild thats already working on ascended gear and he just hit level 80.

Haha 500 hours needed for GW2s easy PvE content.

Yeah sorry I’m totally going to waste my time to get their exact statement after 3 years and not playing for a year. How was the system not working out exactly? There was no one complaining about not having stronger gear to grind but tons complaining when this crap was released. Why aren’t people complaining for higher tier, come on ANet let’s see raids give higher stat gear than ascended. Also are you ignoring fractals? You need to grind ascended to do fractals so they completely ignored their promises.

Ayrilana.1396:

I’ve attached something that should aid you in seeing how many maps there will be.

Whoa let me quickly recalculate the value of this. 29 for 50>4 for 50.

Arewn.2368:

Lets be real here, ascended gear was introduced within 3 months of launch. And it was to remedy the problem of exotics being acquired at an unforeseen easy and fast pace, and to create a system for fractal progression.

You talk about “betrayal”, when the reality is that the addition was a quickly deployed post-beta adjustment. One that they have stayed true to for the 3 years since, and for the foreseeable future.
That’s not a betrayal, that’s run of the mil game development.

Of course they are going to balance raids, which are supposed to be demanding and difficult content, around the highest stat tier. To balance it around a lower tier would be to set the system up for failure from the get-go. People with the higher stat gear would encounter lesser difficulty as a result. And given the nature of these raids, most people interested in them likely already have mostly ascended gear already.
Heck, most people who play regularly should have full ascended jewelry (which accounts for 5 gear slots, roughly 40% of your total stats), given how easy it is to come by.
And, as others have mentioned, it being balanced around ascended stats doesn’t actually require you to have ascended to complete it. A 12%ish(for full exotics, less if you have that ascended jewelry I mentioned) stat difference can be overcome, especially in a game like GW2.

And do you realize how ridiculous some of what you said you did is? So you made exotics for all your alts, even spent money to do so, but then ascended came out and you didn’t feel like making it, so you deleted all your alts?
How is that even a sensible thing to do? Exotics were more then good enough for all the content that was in the game at the time, and remained good enough for all the content that has been added in the 3 years since. Ascended weren’t even that big of an upgrade, and at the time they were first introduce were only out for literally 3 gear slots.
Imagine buying 5 cars, and then a new model comes out. So you have a hissy and destroy 4 of your cars. Yea that’s reasonable.
Not to mention how easy the ascended jewelry slots are to fill. Heck, if you actually played those alts over the past several years, you probably would have gotten full ascended jewelry by happenstance, just by playing.

Also, your car analogy is bad. It doesn’t encompass the situation at all.
You’re salty because you don’t feel like grinding ascended armor. I’m pretty sure that’s all this comes down to. And you know what? I don’t feel like grinding it either. You can just say so, it’s not a big deal.

My two mains have full exotic armor, exotic weapons, and ascended jewelry. That’s what they’ve been wearing for a year or two now. And I have enough resources stockpiled to gear another 5+ fresh characters that way easily.
I likely have enough stuff stored to churn out a couple sets of ascended armor too. Yet I probably won’t. The ~5% stat increase (from a full armor set specifically, not a full gear set) doesn’t seem worth the effort/resources. So I’ll try out raids with what I’m wearing now, maybe grab some ascended weapons at most.
If I’m into it, maybe I’ll gear my main raiding character in full ascended. He’s the only one who’ll need it after all.
Whatever weird OCD you have about gearing alts is your prerogative. It’s not ArenaNet’s problem or fault.

They said no gear grinding or whatever before launch and then proceed to ignore that and make better gear that was only obtained by grinding stuff you may not have wanted to grind, then around a year and half~2 year later they released the armor parts that was only obtained by grinding crafting for obscene amounts of gold, don’t know how it is now since I haven’t played in a year but it’s still entirely ANets fault and probably still extremely expensive/annoying to grind, especially on more than one character.

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Zone
29 for 50>3 for 50.
9 classes>1
5 trait lines with more traits in each per class for 2 years>1 P2W line that is really the only reason to buy currently unless you like raids or something.
Tons of dungeons with multiple paths/fractals/world bosses>Instanced raid bosses with probably the same loot with different cosmetic looks.
Vanilla WoW Alterac Valley>Alterac Valley lite-mini from the looks of it.
Masteries that matter are free I’m pretty sure and so is the WvW map, not seeing what is worth 50 besides the P2W aspect of elite specializations, please don’t act like ANet can balance anything. I haven’t even played in a year and I’m sure there are tons of class bugs from beta still in it but surely they will balance this obvious power creep in 3 weeks.

Every time you aren’t present during the end of the game or are booted by AFK kick you get an invisible 72 hour debuff, the AFK kick stacks so you will get 2 if you don’t reconnect. At 3 stacks the first stack becomes visible and you cannot join tourney games for the remaining time. After that time expires you will still have the 2 remaining stacks counting down invisibly for the remaining time.

You can still play hotjoin, stop ruining tourneys.

Liean.2395:

i know i have negative inpact on team but with crashing happening every few hours i can easly play many games without issue. I dont have anything agains that buff as a concept but 2 days punishment from pvp for pc crashing 2 times today is really unfair imo.

It would have to crash 3 times at the very end of a match in the same day to get Dishonorable for 2 days.

Cause the barely any games the track requires is too hard for a PvE player. Should have been 1000 wins outside of hotjoin at minimum for any real PvP only rewards.

25 stacks of might hambow, even more broken Terrormancer, perma unstoppable burning Engineer, Air and Fire sigil Thieves, stomp and ress cancelling Power Block Mesmers, 25 might stack Elementalists and 1000s of PvE heroes. Great patch!

Saikano.7853:

.

Score means absolutely nothing PvE hero.

All it takes to know who will win is going to http://www.gw2score.com/PvP and seeing how many people have less than 50 games or don’t even show up on each team, the one with the most loses every time. Bonus points if the PvE hero has a legendary.

But then I would still have to play kitten watch.

The first one would be super overpowered and the 2nd makes no sense for a damage line, making it complete blind immunity would make more sense and be a balanced grandmaster competing with Burst Mastery.

It happened to me while I had 3/5 still.

You are ruining the game for 9 other people, working as intended.

Engineer condition builds are fine because other broken condition builds can kill them, great logic in this thread.

Darnis.4056:

What?.. apples to oranges,
Does anyone actually care about APs? There’s no Scoreboard involving APs is there?

Argument is invalid.

?
https://leaderboards.guildwars2.com/en/na/achievements

ANet balancing skillz as usual.

Yeah that makes sense, the first PvP update ever and it only screws people who PvP, much dev love because kitten logic.

Changing your finisher only changes the animation that plays on successful downed stomp. /rank will always be dragon for you if you are 80.

Are you blind?

Backstab: Updated the skill fact to display the correct damage amount with Dagger Training.
Black Powder: Added a radius skill fact (120).
Signet of Agility: Updated the skill fact to display the correct amount of precision gained.
Signet of Malice: Added a might boon skill fact when the player has the Signets of Power trait.
Shadow Refuge: Updated the skill fact to display the correct healing amount.
Choking Gas: Reduced the poison per pulse from 5 seconds to 3 seconds. Added a weakness skill fact when traited with Lotus Poison.
Cloaked in Shadow: Fixed a bug in which this trait would blind enemies while the thief was already stealthed.
Venomous Knife: Updated the poison skill fact to scale with the Potent Poison trait.
Escape: Updated the poison skill fact to scale with the Potent Poison trait.
Exploding Venom Sack: Updated the poison skill fact to scale with the Potent Poison trait.
Rusty Scrap Strike: Updated the poison skill fact to scale with the Potent Poison trait.
Throw Scale: Updated the poison skill fact to scale with the Potent Poison trait.
Whirling Axe: Fixed a bug in which this skill would interact with combo fields incorrectly.
Tripwire: Added strike, cripple, and knock down skill facts.
Twisting Fangs: Updated the skill facts to show damage from multiple hits.
Flanking Strike (Dual): Updated the skill facts to show the bonus damage from Combined Training.
Stab (Dual): Updated the skill facts to show the bonus damage from Combined Training.
Shadow Strike: Updated the damage skill fact for the second strike to display the correct damage amount.
Infiltrator’s Arrow: Added a skill fact for number of targets: 3.

I personally have been waiting for these changes since launch.

Hambow is actually stronger than before.

Usually doesn’t happen in solo queue but today I get a game with 4 people who all went to sit on home till cap as I fight 1 vs 3 mid.

Uhtameit.2413:

dancingmonkey.4902:

glaphen.5230:

Am I complaining about turret Engineers?

Apparently you are. Again you contradict yourself .

glaphen.5230:

Turret Engineer=/=Turrets, Healing Turret is used by almost every build.

Got any evidence of this, or are you simply making unsubstantiated claims, based on your opinion?

I do not use the healing turret personally.

Aaaaaand glaphen uses Med Kit and its synergy with 15 in tools, according to some of his previous messages. So he is an hypocrit.

Nope, I was discussing never used amazing minor traits just like you.

dancingmonkey.4902:

glaphen.5230:

Turret Engineer=/=Turrets, Healing Turret is used by almost every build.

Got any evidence of this, or are you simply making unsubstantiated claims, based on your opinion?

I do not use the healing turret personally.

Oh I dunno maybe every single Engineer I see using it? I’m 100% sure out of my 1356 solo queue games I’ve seen A.E.D. once, Med Kit used by 2 people and Elixir H never.

dancingmonkey.4902:

glaphen.5230:

Am I complaining about turret Engineers? How about Static Discharge? How about Flamethrower? No, none of the above!

Then why do you have 11 post on this thread in which the only engineer skills you mention are turret skills?

Turret Engineer=/=Healing Turret, Healing Turret is used by almost every build.

isolatedchimp.2510:

glaphen.5230:

I’m complaining about decap and the 2 meta kit builds obviously.

You mean the “meta” 2 kit engineers that people hear so much about and are complained so much about and that you have proof that they are problem even just a little bit? Oh wait….

Please, stop being a hypocrite. You’re complaining about builds that are not problematic in any meta except of your own fabrication. So in your own words you are bad.

You mean what this thread was made about?

glaphen.5230:

Complaining about non meta Warriors is an obvious sign of bad.

isolatedchimp.2510:

“meta”

Am I complaining about turret Engineers? How about Static Discharge? How about Flamethrower? No, none of the above!

dancingmonkey.4902:

So the engineer’s healing turret isn’t OP when in a 1 v 1 battle versus a thief? or it is OP in that case?

You know that cute Healing Signet people complain about, even adding the cast time if you pick up the turret instantly, you are healing 367 health per second with 2 conditions removed per 15.5 seconds. Healing Signet heals 392 and after the patch it will heal 360. Game isn’t balanced around 1 vs 1s though so no point in discussing them either way.

dancingmonkey.4902:

glaphen.5230:

dancingmonkey.4902:

Wait a minute, I am simply asking are you claiming the engineer is OP in a 1 to 1 comparison or that they are OP in a group setting?

They are overpowered in group play and I’m doing a 1 to 1 comparison of Healing Turret to Healing Signet, because this is the same thing people did to Warriors.

Git it. So we are flip flopping to what ever is the most convenient for your argument, even though you specifically stated other wise in previous post. Particularly when referring to you preferred professions of warrior and thief.

I have no doubt that the entire community will support you in your claim that engineer is totally overpowered when compared to warrior and thief. /end sarcasm.

I don’t think you understand the difference between a 1 on 1 fight and a 1 to 1 comparison. I’ve implied I have never complained about 1 on 1 fight imbalances and you seem to think I mean 1 to 1 class comparisons or something.

oZii.2864:

glaphen.5230:

oZii.2864:

glaphen.5230:

oZii.2864:

glaphen.5230:

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Healing_skill

There we go so are we assuming people are running around with no weapons too?

I don’t know of a weapon combination for a Elementalist that doesn’t have a healing skill on it unless people run around with just a focus offhand.

See classes are different thanks.

Yeah it’s time for nerf Elementalist threads right, I’m so tired of Elementalists with 0 healing power spamming Water Blast healing the bunker for pitiful health per second instead of Fireballing at least.

Each engineer heal has it’s own line. So each part is considered it’s own heal according to the wiki.

Do you not know what tool belt skills are? I don’t understand your point either way.

Why is it ok for your argument to assume the engineer is running around spamming healing turret when it’s off cooldown and doing nothing else, but we can’t do that for a staff ele? Could it be because that doesn’t help your argument?

Who says you can’t do this for staff Elementalist? Find me an Elementalist spamming Water Blast with 0 healing power though please. The point is it takes an instant to use Healing Turret and then you can do anything else for the next 15-20 seconds, the Elementalist getting that health per second is doing nothing useful unless a healing build, but then we start comparing healing build to healing build which is kittened when both are bad.

oZii.2864:

glaphen.5230:

oZii.2864:

glaphen.5230:

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Healing_skill

There we go so are we assuming people are running around with no weapons too?

I don’t know of a weapon combination for a Elementalist that doesn’t have a healing skill on it unless people run around with just a focus offhand.

See classes are different thanks.

Yeah it’s time for nerf Elementalist threads right, I’m so tired of Elementalists with 0 healing power spamming Water Blast healing the bunker for pitiful health per second instead of Fireballing at least.

Each engineer heal has it’s own line. So each part is considered it’s own heal according to the wiki.

Do you not know what tool belt skills are? I don’t understand your point either way.

oZii.2864:

glaphen.5230:

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Healing_skill

There we go so are we assuming people are running around with no weapons too?

I don’t know of a weapon combination for a Elementalist that doesn’t have a healing skill on it unless people run around with just a focus offhand.

See classes are different thanks.

Yeah it’s time for nerf Elementalist threads right, I’m so tired of Elementalists with 0 healing power spamming Water Blast healing the bunker for pitiful health per second instead of Fireballing at least.

dancingmonkey.4902:

Wait a minute, I am simply asking are you claiming the engineer is OP in a 1 to 1 comparison or that they are OP in a group setting?

They are overpowered in group play and I’m doing a 1 to 1 comparison of Healing Turret to Healing Signet, because this is the same thing people did to Warriors.

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Healing_skill

dancingmonkey.4902:

glaphen.5230:

Since when did Ranger and Elementalist give 224 health per second to their allies and even close to 350 to themselves with 0 healing power and only their healing skill. The range on the Engineer heal is larger than Combustive Shot so its not really hard to hit everyone with it. I don’t even have 10 posts in this thread so I dunno where 27 came from. This is again about only the healing skill since everyone complains about Healing Signet.

Wait, what? You just chidded me earlier stating very specifically that you demand we are speaking in terms of how engineer is OP in a group context, yet you keep trying to make 1 to 1 comparisons.

I am following your context by explaining what my wife, son, and I in group, have capability of. Then you resort back to making it a 1 to 1 comparison. Which is it pal?

Do you understand what a 1 on 1 is? Show me the healing skill that they have doing this much healing with 0 healing power, its pretty simple, or not since they don’t have one.

dancingmonkey.4902:

glaphen.5230:

Wow healing in a tiny area while doing no damage is OP, it isn’t time to complain about healing Elementalists till the patch when combined with other healing builds.

It is the ability to heal in an AoE at 1200 range. I hardly call that a tiny area.

Interesting, now your suggesting healing turret out damages elementalist staff. Now that is a bold angle.

The radius is 120-180 and it requires constant application for those 20 seconds to do the healing per second.