Guild Wars 2

If no one is dying in team fights its a 5 vs 5 of bad bunkers or bad players not focusing a target.

Were you 1 vs 1 on a bunker all game on their point or something? Zerker Warrior damage is super easy to ignore since it all comes from easy to avoid sources, especially on Foefire where you can kite the axe auto attack better. Shouldn’t be 1 vs 1 on a capped point either way. Also damage is only being nerfed in PvE and WvW.

In WvW the only thing you can do is be a Terrormancer or condition Engineer, rest of the classes either need to clench their kitten or hope to outrun them into a tower if the Thief isn’t terrible.

People don’t wanna join on the losing team so it will always be 5 vs 4 anyways.

Lue.6538:

glaphen.5230:

Lue.6538:

glaphen.5230:

Most people at 39 or less are terrible and with the new rank point gains that number should probably be even higher.

And then when you lose against people below 39 they’re ofcourse playing a broken class/build and you’re clearly better than them!

No, rank means nothing ever since they decided to let people farm ranks in hotjoin.

When do I lose against people 39 or below besides when mine has 20 or below. Usually I get teams with all 50+ but one low level usually makes the match one sided.

The simple truth is that there are bad players on all ranks and rank is by far more of a measurement of time invested rather than one that portrays your actual skill in the game.

As for who you lose against? I’m pretty confident you dont actually keep track of any data regarding everyone elses rank on the other team so you’re merely pulling some guesswork that strives to glorify your own ‘skill’.

Yeah and can you please show me the data in your kitten now? Pretty confident you’re merely pulling guesswork that strives to glorify your own ‘bullkitten’. As I said “mostly” all 39 or less ranks have no idea how to play conquest.

Lue.6538:

glaphen.5230:

Most people at 39 or less are terrible and with the new rank point gains that number should probably be even higher.

And then when you lose against people below 39 they’re ofcourse playing a broken class/build and you’re clearly better than them!

No, rank means nothing ever since they decided to let people farm ranks in hotjoin.

When do I lose against people 39 or below besides when mine has 20 or below. Usually I get teams with all 50+ but one low level usually makes the match one sided.

Most abilities will still auto turn to the target if you aren’t trying to move anyways.

Most people at 39 or less are terrible and with the new rank point gains that number should probably be even higher.

BlackBeard.2873:

rhycochet.5268:

with the ally healing buffs, get ready for teams of 4-5 eles standing on 2 nodes the entire game sustaining the shiz out of each other. it’s gonna be fun on a bun. (not)

Hahaha, then 1 build that can decap will come along and knock them off-point and eventually hold it. The stand around 1v2 or 1v3 b/c they won’t be able to kill anything. This will allow focused bursts that 1-shot these healers and snowball the match horribly against them.

I don’t think that is something you have to worry about.

2 healing Elementalists, 2 healing Engineers and 1 decap Engineer, gg.

I’ve complained for months about them but no one cares since the bandwagon is on Warriors.

Rickster.8752:

glaphen.5230:

Lordrosicky.5813:

glaphen.5230:

Rickster.8752:

Phaeton.9582:

Yeah it’s a huge nerf to dps warriors (with no effect on hambow, condi, and bunker).

Take this how you want, but dem the facts

It was probably done because dps warrior can get an extra roll from an energy sigil after the patch, and dodging is what makes that build strong and able to pressure a point.

Actually it is a bug fix targeted exactly at condi warrior because it is part of that build. With this trait and the blocks a condi warrior is able to block and/or dodge incredibly often. So your facts are wrong

What the hell are condition Warriors doing in Strength, its a line for people using Physical utilities and PvE.

For the confusion on interrupt trait and the condi duration I guess.

Which means they are taking Physical skills instead of Shouts or Stances.

No. They take 3 stances and then run mace/sword and longbow. I really don’t want anyone else to run this build because it is arguably the lamest of all and can just one shot you if you make 1 error and aren’t on max health.

They get confusion from the mace with the 2 interrupts on there, which both has low cooldowns.

I know this build very well because I have done hundreds of duels against someone running this build and I know how OP it is. So when people say the building momenteum nerf is nothing to do with them I have to correct anyone who says this because otherwise the devs might believe these people.

I have also seen this build and laugh that they are using such a worthless build over main hand sword with Shouts.

Lordrosicky.5813:

glaphen.5230:

Rickster.8752:

Phaeton.9582:

Yeah it’s a huge nerf to dps warriors (with no effect on hambow, condi, and bunker).

Take this how you want, but dem the facts

It was probably done because dps warrior can get an extra roll from an energy sigil after the patch, and dodging is what makes that build strong and able to pressure a point.

Actually it is a bug fix targeted exactly at condi warrior because it is part of that build. With this trait and the blocks a condi warrior is able to block and/or dodge incredibly often. So your facts are wrong

What the hell are condition Warriors doing in Strength, its a line for people using Physical utilities and PvE.

For the confusion on interrupt trait and the condi duration I guess.

Which means they are taking Physical skills instead of Shouts or Stances.

Rickster.8752:

Phaeton.9582:

Yeah it’s a huge nerf to dps warriors (with no effect on hambow, condi, and bunker).

Take this how you want, but dem the facts

It was probably done because dps warrior can get an extra roll from an energy sigil after the patch, and dodging is what makes that build strong and able to pressure a point.

Actually it is a bug fix targeted exactly at condi warrior because it is part of that build. With this trait and the blocks a condi warrior is able to block and/or dodge incredibly often. So your facts are wrong

What the hell are condition Warriors doing in Strength, its a line for people using Physical utilities and PvE.

Zepidel.5349:

Wow eles getting mad. Care to stick around to tell me how insanely hard your class is to play, and how every other class is ez mode?

Also the mesmer build I described only makes the mantra 33% better, nullfield, the light fields, and arcane theivery all still function the same in any spec.

Go use that build please.

Rubik.7192:

The kitten stroking is high in this thread.

Is there something wrong with stroking kittens?

isolatedchimp.2510:

glaphen.5230:

Is someone mad he’s bad?

He’s right about one thing. You sure QQ a lot in those matches. There was one match where you were complaining that whole time about this mesmer. You were on my team and we lost a close match. I can’t help but think we might have won if you hadn’t spent so much time typing and whining during that match.

When do I complain about Mesmers besides when there’s 3 or more or in combination with Thieves on my team. Even then I only complain before the match starts and afterwards in the inevitable loss because a 3 Mesmer or Thief combination team can’t win against a competent team in solo queue. Mesmer is currently the worst class in the game since every role they fill is done by Thieves but better besides Portal play that never happens anymore.

No one had any points in Strength line so no one cares to defend it.

Avead.5760:

My burst ele would boast about how much damage he could do while also bringing better support than a thief in exchange of mobility..Then my ele found about shadow refuge ..

You mean when you Meteor Shower and Lava Font and out comes 4 corpses 20 seconds later.

30/30/30/30/30 30 utility slots classes are very good against conditions yes, but I never even see a class do anything you mentioned besides Necromancer which is one of the classes kittenting out conditions.

Lord Hammer Hand.4815:

love all this tool who think LB is the based for skill in this game specially glaphe evade thief who QQ in chat everytime hes in skyhammer map or paired with other thief and ele. then end up being carried the whole game coz all he can do is go evade on one of the point. everytime someone mention hes been on top 100 or top 50 he go link that stupid website lol not even accurate. i didnt get all my champ titles because im scared to lower my LB standing i play what class i enjoy. i dont care if i suck and losing while i play new class aslong as i enjoy it. people who cares about their LB standing ussually are the people who Ragequit ingame, talkkitten to others and the toxic of this community.

Is someone mad he’s bad?

ghaleon.2861:

Obsidia.5127:

ghaleon.2861:

Also everybody knows that being on LB doesn’t mean anything about your individual skill level.

So true

That’s what bad players like to believe to make themselves feel better.

I’ve been top of the gw2 LB 10000000000000000 times, so that’s what you like to say to make yourself feel better about the truth. Sounds to me like you’re in denial, and can’t face the truth.

http://www.gw2score.com/PvP/player/ghaleon2861
Top is 66 and 67 now?

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

How the hell are you getting 567 damage/3 seconds? Each minion only attacks once in that time frame. Even accounting for double-hits of Bone Fiend and Bone Minions, that’s still all of 378 damage/3 seconds if someone was an idiot and stood there. Factoring in Blood Fiend pushes it up to 441 damage/3 seconds. Virtually any dodge will negate at least one minion’s round of attacks and just walking around negates Bone Minions (which truthfully only do one attack anyway, as they get blown up).

So yes, actual damage ouput of that trait only hits ~2k in the longest fights.

.8 per golem attack, 1.5 per Shadow Fiend attack, 2.5 per 2 Bone Fiend attack, 3 per Bone Minionx2 attack, so yeah its higher than my number+scaling. A dodge lasts .75 seconds and you kinda have only once per 10 without vigor. Necromancer has 3 immobilizes, 2 fears and 1 charge on low cooldowns and golem is perma cripple if you get hit once, while Bone Fiend is also crippling you and they have 2 sources of chill. Necromancer can easily chain for 10 seconds of immobilize with Bone Fiend. So yeah you’re right 1.5k damage when you die in 10 seconds to the tank build.

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

63 damage/hit is negligable Over the course of a long fight, that may add up to ~1k damage total, less if you’re kiting at all.

And yes, I did forget that Haunt and Rigor Mortis were made instant-cast. The change to Rigor Mortis was a significant buff (nobody uses Shadow Fiend because it means forgoing the Flesh Wurm stunbreak).

Still, the related traits are, in fact, getting nerfed soon. Training of the Master is getting a 5% nerf (to 25% increase instead of 30%) and Vampiric Master is getting a 10% reduction.

Except that it actually does 567 damage per 3 seconds using everything but Wurm and Blood Fiend. Vampiric Master is getting a 10% reduction but healing power scaling is being added and 5% damage is small. MM Necromancer is a tank build that will last a long time so it will be a long fight assuming they don’t immobilize you for 10 seconds.

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

glaphen.5230:

MM Necromancer has been buffed.

Only buff to MM since launch has been AI improvements (should never be complained about) and Vampiric Master getting a damage component (of about 70/hit, mind you).

Whoa only 63 armor ignoring damage per hit per minion? They have also made the minion skills instant to cast by the Necromancer and they gave them health regen OOC. Necromancer in general has been buffed which is an obvious huge buff.

Zonzai.2341:

Huh? You can’t beat a minion master? If you are that bad you should just quit playing then. Or hey, you could learn to play the game. Minion masters are garbage.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/engineer/I-haven-t-played-in-a-very-long-time

MM Necromancer has been buffed.

Cogbyrn.7283:

coglin.1867:

Cogbyrn.7283:

Yeah, reduce the amount of damage conditions do over X seconds so that total is less than the amount of damage that direct damage attacks do instantly.

Balanced.

Umm it already is that way. If your trying to claim it is otherwise, I challenge to yo offer some damage comparisons to support your skewed suggestion.

Sorry, the sarcasm must not have gone through. I was being facetious.

But, since you asked, without any gear, Warrior’s Backbreaker hits for 554 damage and crits for 554*1.5 = 831 damage, while Necro Enfeebling Blood hits for 168 + 10 seconds of 2 stacks of Bleeding = 168 + 850 = 1108 damage total over 10 seconds.

With only Dire gear, Necro’s Enfeebling Blood hits for 176 + 1937 = 2106 damage. With full Zerker gear, Warrior’s Backbreaker hits for 1272 and crits for 1272*2.21 = 2811.

I’m not making a point in particular, just giving some numbers from gw2skills.net/editor on a Heavy Armored Target (2600 armor) with no traits, food, sigils, or runes.

I personally think conditions are fine. However, did you know that, with full Dire gear + Undead runes + Sigil of Bursting + Koi Cakes + Tuning Crystal + generic 30/20/0/0/20 build, the simple application of Mark of Blood (Staff #2 on a 6 second cooldown) will be 3 stacks of bleeding over 13.5 seconds totaling 5,341 damage? If you add Chillblains and Reaper’s Mark only, you’ll get another 2,729 poison damage over 10 seconds and 2.5 seconds of fear at 1200 damage/sec with conditions from Terror+Master of Terror, totaling 5341 + 2729 + 2400 = 10470 damage over those 13 seconds, with just those three mark casts.

Again, I’m not saying that’s too much necessarily, but you can start to see why people get all antsy about condis. The binary nature of conditions is that they can be kind of weak with proper cleansing, but insanely strong without.

Max condition duration is 100% so Master of Terror is useless if you already have base 100% condition duration and you would only get a 2 second fear max with Reaper’s Mark no matter what.

Zenith.7301:

Now imagine a condi spec being able to permablind you for 8 seconds and make every attack you do for those 8 straight seconds miss while they continue to damage you.

Now say that isn’t OP. Because it’s the same crap. Warriors saying condis applied previously still exist are dishonest taking into account rune of lyssa and cleansing ire.

And 8 seconds is PLENTY of time for a warrior to easily take out at least 80% of your health.

If a Warrior is killing you in 8 seconds you are bad.

Teutos.8620:

Uhtameit.2413:

Teutos.8620:

Still hope you’d have given use at least some days to test it our ourselves prior listening to all those qqers

Since when do they give us a few days of testing then remove stuff that needs to be removed? xD besides, the QQ was perfectly justified and supported by many arguments.

Even tho, I think it would have been the better solution. First letting us test out the runes with their planned values. If too strong, reduce the confusion stacks. If they continue to be to strong, change them to something completely different not only in spvp, but also in the rest of the game.
Yes, I also have my doubts, that it would be fun to play against, but without testing it out properly, how much worth is my reasoning compared to someone who has actually minded testing it for hours after hours?

Yeah I agree we need to suffer another couple months.

oZii.2864:

glaphen.5230:

oZii.2864:

glaphen.5230:

Well assuming 1023 condition duration in Spvp on a point against a guy swinging once a second and ignoring sigils, on crit procs, and runes
583:Burning
186:Poison
280:3 stacks of bleeding
992:7 stacks of confusion

Wow a whole 2041 damage a second and thats ignoring a TON of damage sources as you /dance. Your 50% chance to get a 2100 bomb auto attack on a lightly armored target cannot even compare with this damage with a tanky build.

Glaphen are you arguing just to argue? I checked some of your older posts and what you say here doesn’t add up to some of your posts in your history. You know your stuff on most classes from what I skimmed over so it doesn’t seem to add up unless you just like arguing with coglin.

Link please, I’ve complained about the same stuff since I started posting. Also edited the post with a pure bunker version.

I saw a post where you mentioned dhuumfire but I can’t find it

The bulk of what I read was in here
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/wuv/wuv/Class-balance-in-WvW-is-just-fine/page/13#post3457902
Alot of posts in here

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/wuv/wuv/Warrior-Usain-Bolt

If you aren’t built for fighting condition builds and not good enough to avoid them then don’t fight someone who looks like a condition build? If you aren’t built with any mobility at all then why are you roaming?

This one is what struck me though if that is how you see it then I agree. This is basically saying if that isn’t a fight in your favor to win if you still engage and die what is the problem?

If your condition removal is weak then you die that is how it should be. When I go out on my engineer for example I don’t run a stunbreaker if I get stun chained I know that is a possibility I would die. I don’t think stuns need to be nerfed or changed because I’m running around with no stun breaker many necro builds are the same run around with no stun breaker or 1 max.

You see it all the time in WvW 2-3 people beating on a necro and his only out is plague form which usually just delays the inevitable.

Still doesn’t change small group fights though and I’ve been complaining more about Spvp and how broken Terrormancer is in WvW if you get within 1200 range of it, you are dead with no chance of escape without 2 stun breaks and a mobility build with anti chill/cripple, assuming you don’t try to CC him. Such a fun roaming meta in WvW where you can only run away from condition builds, fight the same Thief 100 times without being able to finish him or be either one yourself.

Remicity.8430:

Why does everyone keep saying “You can stack this and this and this” but never says “Then use this skill and cure some of them lowering the damage”

Also confusion shouldn’t be counted into any DPS calculations as it requires you to attack, if you don’t then it does 0 damage, so if you want to be pedantic it would be half the damage calc example.

So then the bunker is still doing 700 dps ignoring the fact that the number I used gets higher over time and that it was just something you can inflict in less than 2 seconds and then /dance. I also ignored 5 stacks of confusion, sigils and runes. So 700 damage vs 0 as the healing power bunker Engineers cooldowns are rapidly coming up. Engineers also have almost no cooldowns with the 3 kit build I used so its not like condition removal works or any animations to dodge.

oZii.2864:

glaphen.5230:

Well assuming 1023 condition duration in Spvp on a point against a guy swinging once a second and ignoring sigils, on crit procs, and runes
583:Burning
186:Poison
280:3 stacks of bleeding
992:7 stacks of confusion

Wow a whole 2041 damage a second and thats ignoring a TON of damage sources as you /dance. Your 50% chance to get a 2100 bomb auto attack on a lightly armored target cannot even compare with this damage with a tanky build.

Glaphen are you arguing just to argue? I checked some of your older posts and what you say here doesn’t add up to some of your posts in your history. You know your stuff on most classes from what I skimmed over so it doesn’t seem to add up unless you just like arguing with coglin.

Link please, I’ve complained about the same stuff since I started posting. Also edited the post with a pure bunker version.

coglin.1867:

glaphen.5230:

You are an Engineer…. Are you seriously implying you have easy to avoid conditions? You have 3 different weapon sets with a condition on each skill besides the auto attack and a huge amount of burning with a single trait, but yeah I’m sure that the 200-400 damage attacks were doing anything and not the 830 burning ticks.

What does this have to do with anything? Are you afraid of the rifles bleed when you are hit by an all direct damage build?? (for I asure all rifle users are power builds)

Let me offer you this challenge oh great wizard of engineer knowledge. In full condition gear what is the best damage per second any of the engineers 3 weapons sets can do? Go all out and break it down for us. Or even be lazy and go to the engineer forums for it, I don’t care. You will be shocked at the low damage. Of coarse we all know you will never do this. As you prefer to make your claims with out actual knowledge of your topic. As is evident in this thread. If you disagree, I will be glad to quote you some of you statement that were very literally, filled with mis-information, earlier on in the thread..

Also, I challenge you to find a condition weapons set that does have skills that are have direct damage attacks (just to show the silliness of your post I quoted.

Then find us a direct damage weapons set that does not have a condition on it. I doubt you will. Which makes you post here a bit useless.

As far as your direct reference here to the damage and the burning, what are you trying to say exactly? Seriously, what is your point? I mean you say " I’m sure that the 200-400 damage attacks were doing anything and not the 830 burning ticks."
But what difference does that make? I can go full power and do 2100 direct damage and have 4s of burning for 300.

Well assuming 1023 condition duration in Spvp on a point against a guy swinging once a second and ignoring sigils, on crit procs, and runes
583:Burning
186:Poison
280:3 stacks of bleeding
992:7 stacks of confusion

Wow a whole 2041 damage a second and thats ignoring a TON of damage sources as you /dance. Your 50% chance to get a 2100 bomb auto attack on a lightly armored target cannot even compare with this damage with a tanky build.

NO NO NO NO this is wrong let me edit it and make it far tankier with less damage.
845:7 stacks of confusion
514:Burning
239:3 stacks of bleeding
158:Poison
1756 with 744 condition damage with a bunker build ignoring sigils, runes and a ton of damage sources.

Ashin.5986:

glaphen.5230:

Ashin.5986:

glaphen.5230:

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vQAQFAGiAiUAAAA-zEBBYhApoFRjVdDTHjIqGA-w
49% with 20 points in Curses, going in 30 is a huge waste and the only precision runes that are worth it is 2 Lyssa for the condition duration and that gives a whole 1%.

Why do you consider it a “huge waste” to put the 10 more points into Curses on a condition build?

What else are you gonna get? Rest of the traits can’t be compared to Reaper’s Protection in WvW or Master of Terror in Spvp.

I don’t really see Reaper’s Protection as being so compelling for WvW. If I get disabled by the enemy zerg, fearing five of them is a nice disruption benefit for my team but it certainly won’t save me. I’m going down once I’m caught away from my zerg without stability.

This isn’t about zerging, power is obviously better for zerging but in anything with 10 players or less conditions are best.

Maskaganda.2043:

glaphen.5230:

coglin.1867:

glaphen.5230:

Ah did not know that, still doesn’t make it worth using precision for on most classes.

Every other post you make is followed up by an “Ah did not know that” or someone explaining you were mistaken. Why do you keep posting about things you are unknowledgable about? As well, how do you know its value for most professions, after you previously admitted you do not even have experience with Most professions??

In my experience, it is a very very common sigil In WvW condi builds. it is also very much a reason to raise precisions, because it only has a 30% chance to proc on crit. It last 7s and is AoE. Would you like me to explain how much damage that is? Or how torment works sir?

glaphen.5230:

Nope, I think vitality is the worst stat for most classes, doesn’t really make precision useful for most condition builds either way.

Odd, as vitality is known as the best stat to counter conditions. As they ignore toughness, vitality adds the ability to absorbe the damage. As well its absorption allows for greater use and value of condition removal.

And as a very wise man already posted

Maskaganda.2043:

coglin won this thread.

Amazing how you get when I didn’t know one thing about a new sigil that still isn’t good enough to sacrifice using precision for on most builds and after the next patch all sigils will work like it anyways. The guy supporting you plays a condition build as well, how surprising! Also vitality offers no sustain so its a soft counter to everything for the first few seconds of a fight.

see, you just shot yourself in the face there. In every single engineer vid I ever posted, I have more power than condition damage, even with 25 stacks of corruption. I use mainly carrion, I play whats essencially an hybrid build, however bad some stuff might scale. I’ve tried full dire and full rabid and it was nowhere near as effective for me.

but you just took one look at it and said “conditions, pff” , like every other raging guy that joins my party whining that’s so cheesy I use dire and perplexity, neither of which it’s true.

apart from that I have 7 other classes all but one at level 80 and I roam either solo or in a small group with all of them. only on my necro do I play conditions and even so, rarely, because zerker necro is way more effective in a 5 man roaming team.

if you know what you are doing, conditions are easy to manage and avoid.

You are an Engineer…. Are you seriously implying you have easy to avoid conditions? You have 3 different weapon sets with a condition on each skill besides the auto attack and a huge amount of burning with a single trait, but yeah I’m sure that the 200-400 damage attacks were doing anything and not the 830 burning ticks.

Overkillengine.6084:

glaphen.5230:

Kravick.4906:

glaphen.5230:

Amazing how you get when I didn’t know one thing about a new sigil that still isn’t good enough to sacrifice using precision for on most builds and after the next patch all sigils will work like it anyways. The guy supporting you plays a condition build as well, how surprising! Also vitality offers no sustain so its a soft counter to everything for the first few seconds of a fight.

Clueless. Completely, and utterly clueless.

There is no point in debating with a person who wishes to remain ignorant.

Teach me please, what do I lack master.

Can’t teach those that refuse to learn.

Yeah I agree.

Kravick.4906:

glaphen.5230:

Amazing how you get when I didn’t know one thing about a new sigil that still isn’t good enough to sacrifice using precision for on most builds and after the next patch all sigils will work like it anyways. The guy supporting you plays a condition build as well, how surprising! Also vitality offers no sustain so its a soft counter to everything for the first few seconds of a fight.

Clueless. Completely, and utterly clueless.

There is no point in debating with a person who wishes to remain ignorant.

Teach me please, what do I lack master.

coglin.1867:

glaphen.5230:

Ah did not know that, still doesn’t make it worth using precision for on most classes.

Every other post you make is followed up by an “Ah did not know that” or someone explaining you were mistaken. Why do you keep posting about things you are unknowledgable about? As well, how do you know its value for most professions, after you previously admitted you do not even have experience with Most professions??

In my experience, it is a very very common sigil In WvW condi builds. it is also very much a reason to raise precisions, because it only has a 30% chance to proc on crit. It last 7s and is AoE. Would you like me to explain how much damage that is? Or how torment works sir?

glaphen.5230:

Nope, I think vitality is the worst stat for most classes, doesn’t really make precision useful for most condition builds either way.

Odd, as vitality is known as the best stat to counter conditions. As they ignore toughness, vitality adds the ability to absorbe the damage. As well its absorption allows for greater use and value of condition removal.

And as a very wise man already posted

Maskaganda.2043:

coglin won this thread.

Amazing how you get when I didn’t know one thing about a new sigil that still isn’t good enough to sacrifice using precision for on most builds and after the next patch all sigils will work like it anyways. The guy supporting you plays a condition build as well, how surprising! Also vitality offers no sustain so its a soft counter to everything for the first few seconds of a fight.

Kravick.4906:

glaphen.5230:

oZii.2864:

glaphen.5230:

Ah did not know that, still doesn’t make it worth using precision for on most classes.

Sounds like you overvalue vitality?

Nope, I think vitality is the worst stat for most classes, doesn’t really make precision useful for most condition builds either way.

That, as we say, is a personal opinion. People that are good at mathfu have already shown how valuable it is as a DPS increase to condition builds. Every class, except thief, have condition builds where precision greatly benefits and increases the overall damage by a decent margin.

I don’t find 400 luck based dps at most to be decent, only Engineer, Warrior and Mesmer get more than that and Engineer/Warrior scales far better with defensive stats.

oZii.2864:

glaphen.5230:

Ah did not know that, still doesn’t make it worth using precision for on most classes.

Sounds like you overvalue vitality?

Nope, I think vitality is the worst stat for most classes, doesn’t really make precision useful for most condition builds either way.

Ah did not know that, still doesn’t make it worth using precision for on most classes.

Kravick.4906:

glaphen.5230:

Kravick.4906:

glaphen.5230:

Kravick.4906:

Where are you pulling these numbers from? I’ve never seen Warband Support do Kill Shot, and as I said, they attack once every five seconds. Those damage numbers mean nothing when you look at them in the face of DPS.

The numbers are from the wiki obviously. Test them both in game and watch enemies walk up to the Ranged Charr to be launch spammed.

So post it, then. Otherwise I can’t take you seriously.

Post what? Go roam in WvW against melees and watch them sit on the ground while you range them from behind the Ranged Charr.

I can’t take you seriously, at all, any more. You do this in every thread. You make bold claims and do nothing to back them up. The burden of proof is on the person making the claim. IE: You.

So you’re complaining about a skill that you’ve never even tried before?

Empowering Might- critical Condition Guardian meta time baby.
Precise Strikes- Tell me about all those non Dire condition Warriors.
Rending Strikes- Read above
Incendiary Powder- Rely on the 10% you get from 10 points in Firearms
Sharpshooter- You are right you can build around this for extra damage
Go for the Eyes- Condition Rifle Engineer meta
Precise Sights- I’ll be sure to take that over pistol cooldowns
Companion’s Might- Amazing pet damage boost would ignore again
Sharpened Edges- A lot better of a trait for Rangers than Necromancers
Sundering Strikes- Condition crit Thieves man
Burning Precision- Lol Fire Magic for critical burning
Weak Spot- Grandmaster in the physical crit line for vulnerability on crits
Arcane Precision- Am I seriously gonna reply to this? No
Barbed Precision- Same useless trait I’ve said multiple times in this thread
Withering Precision- Lol 30 points in Curses

Sigil of Earth- Sigil of Geomancy
Sigil Of Torment- Really?

Kravick.4906:

glaphen.5230:

Kravick.4906:

glaphen.5230:

But as said very earlier in this thread they only have one stat, condition damage. Precision is a fluff stat and condition duration is only on one weapon type. As kittening always I’m still waiting for any of these videos and the only video posted is about unrealistic situations.

Precision isn’t a fluff stat for condition users. There is no way a condi user is going to be doing even 3k DPS without precision. Those proc effects make up pretty decent chunk of their damage. Just because you choose to ignore it doesn’t mean its “fluff”.

The bleeds are a whole 100 dps more with Rabid at the cost of a chunk of defensive stats.

Its not just one bleed. There are multiple bleed procs that occur. Especially if you take Sigil of Earth. But that doesn’t matter, cause you have all the answers, apparently.

Sigil of Geomancy does nearly the same thing but in an AoE and does physical damage on proc. With full rabid you will get less than 1/3 of your hits giving that 5 second bleed because of the 2 second cooldown.

Sube Dai.8496:

Full PVT vs Full Dire is a pretty fair comparison.

Does anyone have any solid numbers on those two?

Of course PVT would be better for PvD and Zerg…

Half the people in this thread do, but they don’t know how to post them.

Kravick.4906:

glaphen.5230:

Kravick.4906:

Where are you pulling these numbers from? I’ve never seen Warband Support do Kill Shot, and as I said, they attack once every five seconds. Those damage numbers mean nothing when you look at them in the face of DPS.

The numbers are from the wiki obviously. Test them both in game and watch enemies walk up to the Ranged Charr to be launch spammed.

So post it, then. Otherwise I can’t take you seriously.

Post what? Go roam in WvW against melees and watch them sit on the ground while you range them from behind the Ranged Charr.

Kravick.4906:

glaphen.5230:

But as said very earlier in this thread they only have one stat, condition damage. Precision is a fluff stat and condition duration is only on one weapon type. As kittening always I’m still waiting for any of these videos and the only video posted is about unrealistic situations.

Precision isn’t a fluff stat for condition users. There is no way a condi user is going to be doing even 3k DPS without precision. Those proc effects make up pretty decent chunk of their damage. Just because you choose to ignore it doesn’t mean its “fluff”.

The bleeds are a whole 100 dps more with Rabid at the cost of a chunk of defensive stats.

Brando.1374:

Just to clairfy those who think 1 player will spam inturrupts to get 25 stacks of confusion,

IT WILL NOT HAPPEN!

there is a 15s CD on the 6th of this rune. at the most you can get 8 stacks from 1 player. at 1400 condi damage that 1360 damage per skill used until you cleanse confusion.

But the confusion will still happen either way and it buffs up Engineers already spammable confusion.

Kravick.4906:

MiLkZz.4789:

Kravick.4906:

MiLkZz.4789:

snip

All of these issues have already been discussed, debunked, and proven wrong in this thread alone. Please try again.

I read the thread and I haven’t seen them been proven wrong. Please try again.
It is the combination of things that makes them OP, just not 1 of the 9 points I listed.

Its been proven several times. Conditions have 3 stats just like power does, just you and a few others just seem to ignore the importance of precision. There have been two different comparison tests shown in this thread that soldiers beats dire, proving that power beats conditions in raw damage. But you, and a few others, just ignore them so you can willfully plug your ears. It has been mentioned that condition damage has a physical cap in terms of how much actual damage it can do because of the bleed cap. A condition build will do about 3k DPS. Power builds start at around 4-5k DPS and can be pushed higher with burst damage builds. A “burst” condition build still only does about… 3k DPS. Cause you know, those bleed caps.

It doesn’t matter what proof we provide, you’ll just ignore it. Meanwhile, you, and people like you, do nothing to try and prove your points. You just kick and scream hoping to get your way. At this point, why should we even bother? Nothing we do will ever be good enough for you.

But as said very earlier in this thread they only have one stat, condition damage. Precision is a fluff stat and condition duration is only on one weapon type. As kittening always I’m still waiting for any of these videos and the only video posted is about unrealistic situations.

Kravick.4906:

Where are you pulling these numbers from? I’ve never seen Warband Support do Kill Shot, and as I said, they attack once every five seconds. Those damage numbers mean nothing when you look at them in the face of DPS.

The numbers are from the wiki obviously. Test them both in game and watch enemies walk up to the Ranged Charr to be launch spammed.

Male
Thieves Guild:8000 health) (105-126 DPS)
Black Powder (420-480 damage.)
Unload (98-114 Damage per shot. Shoots 12 shots instead of 8.)

Female
Thieves Guild:8000 health) (50% slower attack speed) (410-512 DPS)
Double Strike (480-510 damage per strike. Strikes twice.)
Wild Strike (910-970 damage.)
Lotus Strike (1500-1570 damage. Inflicts weakness instead of poison.)
Scorpion Wire (870-920 damage. While this is significantly more damage than the player can deal with the skill, it can only be used once by the summoned thief due to the long recharge time.)

Ranged Charr
10 000 Health
Shoot – Basic ranged attack. Deals 400-550 damage.
Aimed Shot – Ranged attack. Deals ~750 damage. Inflicts 5 stacks of Vulnerability and cripples target for 8 seconds.
Land Mine – Lays a Land Mine that launches nearby foes. Deals no damage. Has a very short recharge time but is only used when enemies get close.

Melee Charr
10 000 Health
Slash – Basic melee attack. Deals 400-550 damage.
Battle Roar – Grants nearby allies 3 stacks of might for 10 seconds.
Throw Axe – Ranged attack. Cripples target foe.

So yeah they have almost the same damage, more health, buffs and better CC at the cost of 60 second higher cooldown. The might stacks,vulnerabilities, and cripples should easily do far more unless the enemy sits inside the blind field and if they are in that, the Ranged Charr would use a Land Mine for a launch. The launch is 3 seconds long too and it has almost no cooldown. The melee is the only reason why the damage is lower and it kinda makes up for it with its spammable cripple throw, meanwhile the melee Thief has a hard time even hitting once after its initial Scorpion Wire. Ranged Charr does almost the same damage as the Thief.