Guild Wars 2

Kincaidia.3192:

I have literally NEVER had a ranger run away from my thief faster than I can catch up on my thief. Not once in 1500+hours in wvw. I’ve had few eles. I’ve had many warriors.

Actual game play and theory craft are worlds apart. Warriors have too much escape ability.

Compromise
Do to warrior mobility skills what they did to Ride the Lightning – you don’t hit a target, you get penalized with 2x the cooldowns.

Ranger population is small and what population it does have is filled with is bearbowbads.

ReesesPBC.4603:

glaphen.5230:

ReesesPBC.4603:

glaphen.5230:

ReesesPBC.4603:

glaphen.5230:

ReesesPBC.4603:

glaphen.5230:

So a Ranger with sword/X and greatsword uses Swoop and swaps to sword to use Hornet Stingx3 and back to Swoop and goes 5200 in 12 seconds of cooldowns.

A Warrior also with sword/X and greatsword uses Whirlwind Attack-Rush-Savage Leapx2-Whirlwind Attack-Savage Leap-Whirlwind Attack-Rush and goes 5550 in 20 seconds of cooldowns.

An Elementalist with D/D uses Burning Speed-Ride the Lightning-Conjure Fiery Greatsword-Fiery Whirl-Fiery Rush-Fiery Whirlx2-Fiery Rush and goes 5700 in 10 seconds of cooldowns.

A Thief with a dagger uses Heartseekerx6 over 18 seconds and goes 2700 in 18 seconds of initiative when starting at 0 and doesn’t care since he was stealthed and still managed to escape with every skill on cooldown.
.

Right there. Plus GS is a defensive weapon on ranger unless you want to do the maul stacking on it which is a one trick pony. And once again the thief will have to use up his initiative to get anywhere and be left to do nothing if he were to catch up.

So let me correct myself Warrior goes 3300 in 10 seconds, happy? Also sword for Rangers is their highest damage offensive weapon.

I’d be happy when you realize that warriors currently have an advantage that needs to be equalized. Even with S/X and the evades it provides, rangers aren’t as melee capable as warriors ala dev class description and in practice, not in theory.

But they are, git gud. I played Ranger more than any other class and got Dungeon Master on it without ever using a ranged weapon.

Don’t tell me to play ranger, it was my main from launch and BWE until all the nerfs and everything mentioned in the CDI made it what it was, a subpar class. I thought this was about WvW too because Ranger is decent in PVE except they don’t contribute as much as other classes can, that’s an entirely different issue.

I did this back during launch and the dodge lock on sword is easy to ignore if you don’t use auto attack. Also Ranger has been buffed since then with actual pet life and dungeons have been made easier.

There is so much about Ranger that hasn’t been buffed or did you mean “buffed” as in surprise actual nerfs as in the screw over of the beastmastery line when they moved our 15 quickness on petswap to 25 it totally screwed over bleed builds . I hope you aren’t referring to aquaman patch or spirit builds either because that just pidgeon holed the class yet again. I agree with you that the sword evade lock can be alleviated by clicking off the auto attack option but it just serves to show what lengths a ranger user has to go through to make a prime dps weapon viable while other classes don’t have to take off their AA options.

Once again this is about warrior mobility and with those weapon sets they are still mobile and effective in being threats while being more tanky with minimal sacrifice. If GS5 was made to be just like RTL with its effectiveness in actually hitting something it would be a fair trade, would it not?

Ranger damage has been nerfed since then not survivability besides the recent Healing Spring change. All thing things I listed are far far far far more threatening than a useless mobility Warrior and are faster.

Maugetarr.6823:

@glaphen: Just wanted to mention that GS +S/X (typically I use shield) is perfectly capable of killing people. On a 30/20/0/0/20 you can have 5.25 seconds of immobilize on the sword burst, so typically a syrategey is to cripple them with autos, Shield bash, final thrust, savage leap, burst (weapon swap cancel), HB, whirlwhind, blade trail, rush. Some of that might miss, but it’s actually pretty hard for a variety of builds to deal with.

WvW is filled with uplevels and bad players. Thieves can win 1 vs 5s because people don’t know how to resurrect the people at their feet, they just stand there and don’t even swing at the air.

Mek.2947:

They should put Warriors’ GS 5 ability on a 40 sec cooldown if they don’t hit a target.

Oh the tears that would happen!!

1/1000th chance of actually hitting a target.

ReesesPBC.4603:

glaphen.5230:

ReesesPBC.4603:

glaphen.5230:

ReesesPBC.4603:

glaphen.5230:

So a Ranger with sword/X and greatsword uses Swoop and swaps to sword to use Hornet Stingx3 and back to Swoop and goes 5200 in 12 seconds of cooldowns.

A Warrior also with sword/X and greatsword uses Whirlwind Attack-Rush-Savage Leapx2-Whirlwind Attack-Savage Leap-Whirlwind Attack-Rush and goes 5550 in 20 seconds of cooldowns.

An Elementalist with D/D uses Burning Speed-Ride the Lightning-Conjure Fiery Greatsword-Fiery Whirl-Fiery Rush-Fiery Whirlx2-Fiery Rush and goes 5700 in 10 seconds of cooldowns.

A Thief with a dagger uses Heartseekerx6 over 18 seconds and goes 2700 in 18 seconds of initiative when starting at 0 and doesn’t care since he was stealthed and still managed to escape with every skill on cooldown.
.

Right there. Plus GS is a defensive weapon on ranger unless you want to do the maul stacking on it which is a one trick pony. And once again the thief will have to use up his initiative to get anywhere and be left to do nothing if he were to catch up.

So let me correct myself Warrior goes 3300 in 10 seconds, happy? Also sword for Rangers is their highest damage offensive weapon.

I’d be happy when you realize that warriors currently have an advantage that needs to be equalized. Even with S/X and the evades it provides, rangers aren’t as melee capable as warriors ala dev class description and in practice, not in theory.

But they are, git gud. I played Ranger more than any other class and got Dungeon Master on it without ever using a ranged weapon.

Don’t tell me to play ranger, it was my main from launch and BWE until all the nerfs and everything mentioned in the CDI made it what it was, a subpar class. I thought this was about WvW too because Ranger is decent in PVE except they don’t contribute as much as other classes can, that’s an entirely different issue.

I did this back during launch and the dodge lock on sword is easy to ignore if you don’t use auto attack. Also Ranger has been buffed since then with actual pet life and dungeons have been made easier.

ReesesPBC.4603:

glaphen.5230:

ReesesPBC.4603:

glaphen.5230:

So a Ranger with sword/X and greatsword uses Swoop and swaps to sword to use Hornet Stingx3 and back to Swoop and goes 5200 in 12 seconds of cooldowns.

A Warrior also with sword/X and greatsword uses Whirlwind Attack-Rush-Savage Leapx2-Whirlwind Attack-Savage Leap-Whirlwind Attack-Rush and goes 5550 in 20 seconds of cooldowns.

An Elementalist with D/D uses Burning Speed-Ride the Lightning-Conjure Fiery Greatsword-Fiery Whirl-Fiery Rush-Fiery Whirlx2-Fiery Rush and goes 5700 in 10 seconds of cooldowns.

A Thief with a dagger uses Heartseekerx6 over 18 seconds and goes 2700 in 18 seconds of initiative when starting at 0 and doesn’t care since he was stealthed and still managed to escape with every skill on cooldown.
.

Right there. Plus GS is a defensive weapon on ranger unless you want to do the maul stacking on it which is a one trick pony. And once again the thief will have to use up his initiative to get anywhere and be left to do nothing if he were to catch up.

So let me correct myself Warrior goes 3300 in 10 seconds, happy? Also sword for Rangers is their highest damage offensive weapon.

I’d be happy when you realize that warriors currently have an advantage that needs to be equalized. Even with S/X and the evades it provides, rangers aren’t as melee capable as warriors ala dev class description and in practice, not in theory.

But they are, git gud. I played Ranger more than any other class and got Dungeon Master on it without ever using a ranged weapon.

HHR LostProphet.4801:

glaphen.5230:

ReesesPBC.4603:

glaphen.5230:

ReesesPBC.4603:

glaphen.5230:

ReesesPBC.4603:

glaphen.5230:

So a Ranger with sword/X and greatsword uses Swoop and swaps to sword to use Hornet Stingx3 and back to Swoop and goes 5200 in 12 seconds of cooldowns.

A Warrior also with sword/X and greatsword uses Whirlwind Attack-Rush-Savage Leapx2-Whirlwind Attack-Savage Leap-Whirlwind Attack-Rush and goes 5550 in 20 seconds of cooldowns.

An Elementalist with D/D uses Burning Speed-Ride the Lightning-Conjure Fiery Greatsword-Fiery Whirl-Fiery Rush-Fiery Whirlx2-Fiery Rush and goes 5700 in 10 seconds of cooldowns.

A Thief with a dagger uses Heartseekerx6 over 18 seconds and goes 2700 in 18 seconds of initiative when starting at 0 and doesn’t care since he was stealthed and still managed to escape with every skill on cooldown.

So how do Warriors have good mobility again? They have the 4th best and only if they use a weapon set that can’t kill on its own.

Rangers have a higher skill cap to actually have to pause or get down that about-face transition for it to be useful.

Elementalists – not sure why this is even a comparison when after those 10 seconds they have way longer cooldowns to reuse it added to that is the FGS cooldown alone already super high.

Thieves – They can catch up or be as mobile but what will they do with 0 initiative other than stealth?

Wars can just easily repeat and initiate an escape whereas the other classes have sacrificed CD’s or fighting capability just to be mobile on top of the fact that they are indeed squishier.

Positioning your character is hard so lets ignore Rangers who come with blocks and evades on their weapon set while escaping too.

Do you need to escape more than once every 120 seconds on your Elementalist or something? git gud

I didn’t include utilities and Thieves have the most mobility with utilities by far.

A Warrior with those weapons wont kill anyone with a working keyboard and mouse. How is this different from Ranger also?

The need for ele’s to have an escape on demand at a lesser rate doesn’t justify that they should have a decent one every 120 seconds only.

If you did include utilities than wars can break away even more easy and add immunity along with it with the other 2 free slots. Add do that if you want stability it’s there in an elite while ele’s have to use cantrips just to survive at a normal speed.

You need to stop giving wars who use that weapon set less credibility as you make them out as incompetent players.

How dare they have amazing mobility on a 120 second cooldown, why is it fair that I lose after 60 seconds of Fiery Greatsword when a new guy suddenly appears on the opposite side of the guy I left behind 40 seconds ago even though all my weapon skills are off cooldown and I’m at full health.

No no no, Warriors lose even harder when comparing utilities with any of the 3 classes I mentioned. Also why does the Warrior have his immunities off cooldown when hes trying to escape. Did he not even try to fight?

Competent players don’t lose to sword/warhorn/greatsword Warriors.

I’m not sure what you just said. Did you intentionally run into another player while running away? That could happen to anyone. And if it did to an ele who just used that glorious 120 CD elite just to have a comparable escape than what would they do when they engage that new person and a warrior is closing in on them who probably regenerated his health already?

If warriors lose then why are threads like this even being made? They don’t lose because they can rinse and repeat because they have ease of access to do such on top of what is always being mentioned, they are more tanky in general.

Lol Warrior was left behind 40 seconds ago as I said. Only a Thief or Ranger can catch up to a Fiery Greatsword Elementalist and the Thief would be out of cooldowns while the Elementalist has everything but Fiery Greatsword. Because people are terrible at this game?

Oh mighty pro at this game, enlighten us with your wisdom, so we shall never ever lose to a Sw/Wh+GS warrior… not.
Seriously, the very exinstance of this thread and the participation in this thread shows that there is something wrong with the travelspeed the warrior is reaching. Just because you are theroycrafting all day long doesn’t mean that your points are valid.

The Earth is flat.

ReesesPBC.4603:

glaphen.5230:

So a Ranger with sword/X and greatsword uses Swoop and swaps to sword to use Hornet Stingx3 and back to Swoop and goes 5200 in 12 seconds of cooldowns.

A Warrior also with sword/X and greatsword uses Whirlwind Attack-Rush-Savage Leapx2-Whirlwind Attack-Savage Leap-Whirlwind Attack-Rush and goes 5550 in 20 seconds of cooldowns.

An Elementalist with D/D uses Burning Speed-Ride the Lightning-Conjure Fiery Greatsword-Fiery Whirl-Fiery Rush-Fiery Whirlx2-Fiery Rush and goes 5700 in 10 seconds of cooldowns.

A Thief with a dagger uses Heartseekerx6 over 18 seconds and goes 2700 in 18 seconds of initiative when starting at 0 and doesn’t care since he was stealthed and still managed to escape with every skill on cooldown.
.

Right there. Plus GS is a defensive weapon on ranger unless you want to do the maul stacking on it which is a one trick pony. And once again the thief will have to use up his initiative to get anywhere and be left to do nothing if he were to catch up.

So let me correct myself Warrior goes 3300 in 10 seconds, happy? Also sword for Rangers is their highest damage offensive weapon.

ReesesPBC.4603:

glaphen.5230:

ReesesPBC.4603:

glaphen.5230:

ReesesPBC.4603:

glaphen.5230:

ReesesPBC.4603:

glaphen.5230:

So a Ranger with sword/X and greatsword uses Swoop and swaps to sword to use Hornet Stingx3 and back to Swoop and goes 5200 in 12 seconds of cooldowns.

A Warrior also with sword/X and greatsword uses Whirlwind Attack-Rush-Savage Leapx2-Whirlwind Attack-Savage Leap-Whirlwind Attack-Rush and goes 5550 in 20 seconds of cooldowns.

An Elementalist with D/D uses Burning Speed-Ride the Lightning-Conjure Fiery Greatsword-Fiery Whirl-Fiery Rush-Fiery Whirlx2-Fiery Rush and goes 5700 in 10 seconds of cooldowns.

A Thief with a dagger uses Heartseekerx6 over 18 seconds and goes 2700 in 18 seconds of initiative when starting at 0 and doesn’t care since he was stealthed and still managed to escape with every skill on cooldown.

So how do Warriors have good mobility again? They have the 4th best and only if they use a weapon set that can’t kill on its own.

Rangers have a higher skill cap to actually have to pause or get down that about-face transition for it to be useful.

Elementalists – not sure why this is even a comparison when after those 10 seconds they have way longer cooldowns to reuse it added to that is the FGS cooldown alone already super high.

Thieves – They can catch up or be as mobile but what will they do with 0 initiative other than stealth?

Wars can just easily repeat and initiate an escape whereas the other classes have sacrificed CD’s or fighting capability just to be mobile on top of the fact that they are indeed squishier.

Positioning your character is hard so lets ignore Rangers who come with blocks and evades on their weapon set while escaping too.

Do you need to escape more than once every 120 seconds on your Elementalist or something? git gud

I didn’t include utilities and Thieves have the most mobility with utilities by far.

A Warrior with those weapons wont kill anyone with a working keyboard and mouse. How is this different from Ranger also?

The need for ele’s to have an escape on demand at a lesser rate doesn’t justify that they should have a decent one every 120 seconds only.

If you did include utilities than wars can break away even more easy and add immunity along with it with the other 2 free slots. Add do that if you want stability it’s there in an elite while ele’s have to use cantrips just to survive at a normal speed.

You need to stop giving wars who use that weapon set less credibility as you make them out as incompetent players.

How dare they have amazing mobility on a 120 second cooldown, why is it fair that I lose after 60 seconds of Fiery Greatsword when a new guy suddenly appears on the opposite side of the guy I left behind 40 seconds ago even though all my weapon skills are off cooldown and I’m at full health.

No no no, Warriors lose even harder when comparing utilities with any of the 3 classes I mentioned. Also why does the Warrior have his immunities off cooldown when hes trying to escape. Did he not even try to fight?

Competent players don’t lose to sword/warhorn/greatsword Warriors.

I’m not sure what you just said. Did you intentionally run into another player while running away? That could happen to anyone. And if it did to an ele who just used that glorious 120 CD elite just to have a comparable escape than what would they do when they engage that new person and a warrior is closing in on them who probably regenerated his health already?

If warriors lose then why are threads like this even being made? They don’t lose because they can rinse and repeat because they have ease of access to do such on top of what is always being mentioned, they are more tanky in general.

Lol Warrior was left behind 40 seconds ago as I said. Only a Thief or Ranger can catch up to a Fiery Greatsword Elementalist and the Thief would be out of cooldowns while the Elementalist has everything but Fiery Greatsword. Because people are terrible at this game?

I think at this point the level of denial you have is far too great for you to understand. You just stated yourself that warriors have farther reaching mobility skills than both of those classes in your earlier post.. sooo ya contradict much?

Link?

Yeah lets buff Lich Form!

ReesesPBC.4603:

glaphen.5230:

ReesesPBC.4603:

glaphen.5230:

ReesesPBC.4603:

glaphen.5230:

So a Ranger with sword/X and greatsword uses Swoop and swaps to sword to use Hornet Stingx3 and back to Swoop and goes 5200 in 12 seconds of cooldowns.

A Warrior also with sword/X and greatsword uses Whirlwind Attack-Rush-Savage Leapx2-Whirlwind Attack-Savage Leap-Whirlwind Attack-Rush and goes 5550 in 20 seconds of cooldowns.

An Elementalist with D/D uses Burning Speed-Ride the Lightning-Conjure Fiery Greatsword-Fiery Whirl-Fiery Rush-Fiery Whirlx2-Fiery Rush and goes 5700 in 10 seconds of cooldowns.

A Thief with a dagger uses Heartseekerx6 over 18 seconds and goes 2700 in 18 seconds of initiative when starting at 0 and doesn’t care since he was stealthed and still managed to escape with every skill on cooldown.

So how do Warriors have good mobility again? They have the 4th best and only if they use a weapon set that can’t kill on its own.

Rangers have a higher skill cap to actually have to pause or get down that about-face transition for it to be useful.

Elementalists – not sure why this is even a comparison when after those 10 seconds they have way longer cooldowns to reuse it added to that is the FGS cooldown alone already super high.

Thieves – They can catch up or be as mobile but what will they do with 0 initiative other than stealth?

Wars can just easily repeat and initiate an escape whereas the other classes have sacrificed CD’s or fighting capability just to be mobile on top of the fact that they are indeed squishier.

Positioning your character is hard so lets ignore Rangers who come with blocks and evades on their weapon set while escaping too.

Do you need to escape more than once every 120 seconds on your Elementalist or something? git gud

I didn’t include utilities and Thieves have the most mobility with utilities by far.

A Warrior with those weapons wont kill anyone with a working keyboard and mouse. How is this different from Ranger also?

The need for ele’s to have an escape on demand at a lesser rate doesn’t justify that they should have a decent one every 120 seconds only.

If you did include utilities than wars can break away even more easy and add immunity along with it with the other 2 free slots. Add do that if you want stability it’s there in an elite while ele’s have to use cantrips just to survive at a normal speed.

You need to stop giving wars who use that weapon set less credibility as you make them out as incompetent players.

How dare they have amazing mobility on a 120 second cooldown, why is it fair that I lose after 60 seconds of Fiery Greatsword when a new guy suddenly appears on the opposite side of the guy I left behind 40 seconds ago even though all my weapon skills are off cooldown and I’m at full health.

No no no, Warriors lose even harder when comparing utilities with any of the 3 classes I mentioned. Also why does the Warrior have his immunities off cooldown when hes trying to escape. Did he not even try to fight?

Competent players don’t lose to sword/warhorn/greatsword Warriors.

I’m not sure what you just said. Did you intentionally run into another player while running away? That could happen to anyone. And if it did to an ele who just used that glorious 120 CD elite just to have a comparable escape than what would they do when they engage that new person and a warrior is closing in on them who probably regenerated his health already?

If warriors lose then why are threads like this even being made? They don’t lose because they can rinse and repeat because they have ease of access to do such on top of what is always being mentioned, they are more tanky in general.

Lol Warrior was left behind 40 seconds ago as I said. Only a Thief or Ranger can catch up to a Fiery Greatsword Elementalist and the Thief would be out of cooldowns while the Elementalist has everything but Fiery Greatsword. Because people are terrible at this game?

HHR LostProphet.4801:

glaphen.5230:

LordByron.8369:

glaphen did you ever seen that happen?

Theorycrafting not applying in game…….i already tried to explain why.

(p.s. add cast and aftercast to start with…..).

I do this and Warrior is still worse off since they cast the most.

If you’re using Sword/Horn + GS + Bull’s Charge + Signet of Rage, you can cast all skills you have who are granting either a gapcloser or swiftness 10 times (not each skill) before you have to wait for cooldowns. And those cooldowns aren’t higher than 4 seconds maximum. You can try that out yourself, I have tried it just this minute.
And don’t dare saying a sw/wh+gs warrior couldn’t kill someone. He might be outplayed easily by other players who are good in what they do, but the warrior is indeed capable of killing people.

I just don’t know how to respond to this level of wrong.

ReesesPBC.4603:

glaphen.5230:

ReesesPBC.4603:

glaphen.5230:

So a Ranger with sword/X and greatsword uses Swoop and swaps to sword to use Hornet Stingx3 and back to Swoop and goes 5200 in 12 seconds of cooldowns.

A Warrior also with sword/X and greatsword uses Whirlwind Attack-Rush-Savage Leapx2-Whirlwind Attack-Savage Leap-Whirlwind Attack-Rush and goes 5550 in 20 seconds of cooldowns.

An Elementalist with D/D uses Burning Speed-Ride the Lightning-Conjure Fiery Greatsword-Fiery Whirl-Fiery Rush-Fiery Whirlx2-Fiery Rush and goes 5700 in 10 seconds of cooldowns.

A Thief with a dagger uses Heartseekerx6 over 18 seconds and goes 2700 in 18 seconds of initiative when starting at 0 and doesn’t care since he was stealthed and still managed to escape with every skill on cooldown.

So how do Warriors have good mobility again? They have the 4th best and only if they use a weapon set that can’t kill on its own.

Rangers have a higher skill cap to actually have to pause or get down that about-face transition for it to be useful.

Elementalists – not sure why this is even a comparison when after those 10 seconds they have way longer cooldowns to reuse it added to that is the FGS cooldown alone already super high.

Thieves – They can catch up or be as mobile but what will they do with 0 initiative other than stealth?

Wars can just easily repeat and initiate an escape whereas the other classes have sacrificed CD’s or fighting capability just to be mobile on top of the fact that they are indeed squishier.

Positioning your character is hard so lets ignore Rangers who come with blocks and evades on their weapon set while escaping too.

Do you need to escape more than once every 120 seconds on your Elementalist or something? git gud

I didn’t include utilities and Thieves have the most mobility with utilities by far.

A Warrior with those weapons wont kill anyone with a working keyboard and mouse. How is this different from Ranger also?

The need for ele’s to have an escape on demand at a lesser rate doesn’t justify that they should have a decent one every 120 seconds only.

If you did include utilities than wars can break away even more easy and add immunity along with it with the other 2 free slots. Add do that if you want stability it’s there in an elite while ele’s have to use cantrips just to survive at a normal speed.

You need to stop giving wars who use that weapon set less credibility as you make them out as incompetent players.

How dare they have amazing mobility on a 120 second cooldown, why is it fair that I lose after 60 seconds of Fiery Greatsword when a new guy suddenly appears on the opposite side of the guy I left behind 40 seconds ago even though all my weapon skills are off cooldown and I’m at full health.

No no no, Warriors lose even harder when comparing utilities with any of the 3 classes I mentioned. Also why does the Warrior have his immunities off cooldown when hes trying to escape. Did he not even try to fight?

Competent players don’t lose to sword/warhorn/greatsword Warriors.

ReesesPBC.4603:

glaphen.5230:

So a Ranger with sword/X and greatsword uses Swoop and swaps to sword to use Hornet Stingx3 and back to Swoop and goes 5200 in 12 seconds of cooldowns.

A Warrior also with sword/X and greatsword uses Whirlwind Attack-Rush-Savage Leapx2-Whirlwind Attack-Savage Leap-Whirlwind Attack-Rush and goes 5550 in 20 seconds of cooldowns.

An Elementalist with D/D uses Burning Speed-Ride the Lightning-Conjure Fiery Greatsword-Fiery Whirl-Fiery Rush-Fiery Whirlx2-Fiery Rush and goes 5700 in 10 seconds of cooldowns.

A Thief with a dagger uses Heartseekerx6 over 18 seconds and goes 2700 in 18 seconds of initiative when starting at 0 and doesn’t care since he was stealthed and still managed to escape with every skill on cooldown.

So how do Warriors have good mobility again? They have the 4th best and only if they use a weapon set that can’t kill on its own.

Rangers have a higher skill cap to actually have to pause or get down that about-face transition for it to be useful.

Elementalists – not sure why this is even a comparison when after those 10 seconds they have way longer cooldowns to reuse it added to that is the FGS cooldown alone already super high.

Thieves – They can catch up or be as mobile but what will they do with 0 initiative other than stealth?

Wars can just easily repeat and initiate an escape whereas the other classes have sacrificed CD’s or fighting capability just to be mobile on top of the fact that they are indeed squishier.

Positioning your character is hard so lets ignore Rangers who come with blocks and evades on their weapon set while escaping too.

Do you need to escape more than once every 120 seconds on your Elementalist or something? git gud

I didn’t include utilities and Thieves have the most mobility with utilities by far.

A Warrior with those weapons wont kill anyone with a working keyboard and mouse. How is this different from Ranger also?

LordByron.8369:

glaphen did you ever seen that happen?

Theorycrafting not applying in game…….i already tried to explain why.

(p.s. add cast and aftercast to start with…..).

I do this and Warrior is still worse off since they cast the most.

So a Ranger with sword/X and greatsword uses Swoop and swaps to sword to use Hornet Stingx3 and back to Swoop and goes 5200 in 12 seconds of cooldowns.

A Warrior also with sword/X and greatsword uses Whirlwind Attack-Rush-Savage Leapx2-Whirlwind Attack-Savage Leap-Whirlwind Attack-Rush and goes 5550 in 20 seconds of cooldowns.

An Elementalist with D/D uses Burning Speed-Ride the Lightning-Conjure Fiery Greatsword-Fiery Whirl-Fiery Rush-Fiery Whirlx2-Fiery Rush and goes 5700 in 10 seconds of cooldowns.

A Thief with a dagger uses Heartseekerx6 over 18 seconds and goes 2700 in 18 seconds of initiative when starting at 0 and doesn’t care since he was stealthed and still managed to escape with every skill on cooldown.

So how do Warriors have good mobility again? They have the 4th best and only if they use a weapon set that can’t kill on its own.

Teutos.8620:

The skill is currently bugged -> http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Building_Momentum

Ofc the fix will result in a nerf, but the current effect was never intended, and will hit every traitsetup which used it.

They have had tooltips wrong before and changed them to be what its been all along. At 15 it would be completely useless and every build complained about doesn’t even use the Strength tree.

Black Teagan.9215:

Good joke!
Thief survivability is weak without stealth, especially condition remove and even deathblossom is a better evade skill than Disabling Shot.
“oneshot” is a word, that dont exist for thieves outside of WvW.

Good joke!
Death Blossom
Evade: ¼ s
4 initiative

Disabling Shot
Evade: ¾ s
4 initiative

LordByron.8369:

I already told you…
An ele with a FGS in hand can t fight anything but a PVE boss near a wall…
And its 180 CD so no…..

(to fight you ele needs to drop the sword and sacrifice the elite… while casting the same you already get a nice advantage….)

And that is an elite….

P.S. and once again no… reaper of grenth and glyph of elementals are way better for “fighting”.
The FGS is only used to escape or to catch your zerg….

Why can’t I move faster than a Warrior taking mobility skills by taking no mobility skills. Terrible mods.

LordByron.8369:

Let see
Whirlwind attack cd 10 for 450 is comparable to burning speed (even if i d argue swiftness impact less burning speed)
Bladetrail on 15 seconds beats 2,5 times ride the lightning on 40 sec CD and only 250 more range (nobody gets hit by RTL long range) and have the same range assuming swiftness (conditions and CC are extremely hard to apply to warriors).

UTILITIES:
Are you comparing a single weapon warrior without utilities and not build for speed with the best speed build ele has?

So the least mobile warrior is still MORE mobile compared to the most mobile ele.

Fiery Whirl
Range: 900
5 second cooldown

Whirlwind Attack
Range: 450
10 second cooldown

Fiery Rush
Range: 900
10 second cooldown

Rush
Range: 1,200
20 second cooldown

Even with the 20% trait that no Warrior build usually has Fiery Greatsword is far faster. Fiery Greatsword is the best Elementalist elite by far so you have no excuse to not have it while roaming and if you plan on Meteor Shower glitching just switch to Tornado before the fight.

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Feline_Grace

15 is 15% not 50%. They really should leave the trait alone though since all the Warrior builds complained about don’t even use any points in Strength.

Use your massive amounts of chill and cripple with condition removals to kite. If you are any good at basic combos kill someone that isn’t using 3 stun breaks with one Terror fear chain and if they do have 3 stun breaks whittle them away since they don’t have any condition removal with those stun breaks.

Razor.6392:

Simon.3794:

Razor.6392:

Warriors should just be nerfed to oblivion.

Rush: 40 seconds cooldown if it doesn’t hit a foe.
Savage leap: Requires a target.
Healing signet: Caps at 350 hp/s
Earthshaker: Cooldown increased to 15 seconds.

And everything will be fine in this world.

im fine with rush with 40 cd if it doesnt hit a foe, as long as it wont get affected by Chill or Cripple and getting its range and speed cut by 66% and ACTUALLY hit the target .

just like, say, ride the lightning.

Everyone always brings that up. I like how you try to put both classes on an equal ground when everything about warriors is better than eles. Okay so make it the way you propose, and while we’re at it also give eles 20k hp, stability traits, aoe stuns every 10 seconds, weapon swap and a low cd elite to abuse lyssa runes :^)

Dem warrior fanboys.

I agree lets give Warriors 4 weapons and turn Kill Shot into Kill Shot Rain that works the same way Meteor Shower does.

I use 1024×768 on a 1920×1080 monitor and reading their animations is still hard as hell compared to other races.

TheflamingWolf.5861:

glaphen.5230:

Warriors are sacrificing by using 2 weapon sets that can’t kill on their own. Elementalists only decent elite is Fiery Greatsword so everyone uses it anyways and its far better than Warrior greatsword mobility wise. Thieves get comparable mobility by using either main hand dagger or using a short bow.

if it comes to running we are talking about wvw where the tornado is the king of ele elites

You can swap elites at any time for a zerg fight.

Warriors are sacrificing by using 2 weapon sets that can’t kill on their own. Elementalists only decent elite is Fiery Greatsword so everyone uses it anyways and its far better than Warrior greatsword mobility wise. Thieves get comparable mobility by using either main hand dagger or using a short bow.

It requires being a kitten 3 times not once.

Thief and Elementalist are faster and sacrifice less.

Every other profession chilled has at least 5 different weapon skills counting down at the same time and most still have other weapons, attunements and kits.

jayvux.4128:

Marcos.3690:

Surferboy.1649:

I don’t see decap engis as overpowered, just as really annoying. and sorry, but for annoying you can’t nerf a build.
Otherwise they would have nerfed stealth, evade, block, stun, daze, ………..

An average decap engi can earn a 300 points advantage to their team in a soloq match

^ This true.

@OP Send a blinding thief or stability war/guard/lich necro our way, and we’ll be struggling. Counters

Decap Engi,
Calcium

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Transmute
Air Blast and Overcharged Shot are also instant so you can auto attack into an instant knockback the same way a Guardian can still push in blind fields. Also you should be using Throw Mine which can take care of stability easily.

Nerfing rifle or FT cc… won’t change anything. Throw mine/turrets/Ft/TK/BK/rifle/shield offhand/elixir x/battering ram/slick shoes. ANY OF THESE can be used for decap engi. you want to tone down ENTIRE CLASS?
All instant CC skills should be nerfed to have cast times.

warrior
How about nerf fear me, (unblockable AOE 3s fear with 0 animation)
stomp (aoe knockback combined with pin down or bolas)
rampage.
Fear Me should be nerfed but since its a shout I don’t know how they could balance it. Possibly make it a 200 range leash like Guardians Binding Blade. Stomp has an obvious animation so it can be dodged. Rampage is a long cooldown and nothing is instant with only two low range knockbacks.

ele
staff (air) 3 then 5? ez decap.
staff 5 is immob is I remember correct.
tornado.
Staff is countered by stability and it still has a 1/4 cast time if anything. Tornado is countered by stability easily too.

necro:
Dont get me started on the stupid fear chain. EZ decap.
Fear needs a nerf naturally

ranger:
shortbow no animation knockback arrow. Spider immob? possible decap.
Longbow knockback has a 1/2 second cast time and doesn’t leave you on the floor for 3 seconds afterwards.

Still need to add cast times to all the instant CC skills in the game. I don’t understand why you’ve been adding cast time to all Warrior skills but instant Doom, Overcharged Shot, Air Blast exist. Then you have skills with no animation tells like all Bomb Kit skills and all Necromancer staff skills. Why exactly do these still exist when a Concussion Bomb is 10x more deadly than a Pin Down.

I don’t even have a target key bound and have never had problems with targetting.

See that would have been the perfect Radiance trait with blind on burning that the Elementalist is getting.

runeblade.7514:

Because they are more like a bonus rather than build defining skills. There is good no way to create a build that centers around Elementalist summon or Thieves guild. Their builds are defined mainly by their utilities and weapons.

You don’t use Stealth to compliment the Thieves guild. You use theives guild to help hide you with stealth.

How exactly does Thieves Guild help you hide in stealth besides telling the enemy where you are when they are summoned and following you till they acquire a target. They don’t even attack till you hit the enemy to tell them to do anything or the enemy starts hitting you. Their damage is terrible and Basilisk Venom is better in any situation. As I said in the previous post they are only good for venom bots if you have no allies around at the cost of venoms.

The Ice Elemental at least is a really good summon and lasts a minute and it counts as a glyph.

More health than that, especially with the frequent “illusions have more health” trait (plus the “phantasms grant regeneration”. Even so, their cooldowns are comparatively short and good mesmers either shatter them before you can kill them all off or let you do so and get punished with conditions.
3,482 health in PvP/WvW so yeah more than that and they have a 20% trait with a 50% signet. Their armor scales with the Mesmer though so they are way squishier than even a bone minion.

I question if you actually played at launch, then. Spirit Weapons were completely invincible at launch, and even in their nerfed state, a couple of them have pretty good effects. I agree they were not given an appropriate buff in return for being made killable, however.
I’ve tried builds using spirit weapons even before the nerf and they were bad then, besides the hammer with its knockback spam. Bow and shield are disgustingly bad and sword costs too many trait points to be made useful.

Because unlike every other summon in the game, they have great versatility in skills. Black Powder and Scorpion Wire are both on those summons, and those are just the two skills I remember.
Are you serious? Even both combined they are the weakest summon in the game and are only useful as venom bots that cost the same slots as venoms that players could be using. Those are just the only two skills that they have and are only used once a summon usually.

True enough. Only real counter I can mention is, again, versatility, as the Ele has 4 summons in a single skill slot. Plus, the Ele isn’t exactly known for being a summoner class, unlike the Necromancer.
So Necromancer should have better summons since they are the summon class, I guess that’s why they have the best conditions too. 4 summons but only one of them can be used per long cooldown cast.

KevinB.9643:

A guild mate and I discussed about the healing amount a thief would gain while killing an ambient creature (rabbit, frog, crab ect). It would be very funny if you almost defeated a random thief in WvW and the thief decides to kill a random passing by ambient creature, only so the thief could fully heal it’s Hp.

They said in stream yesterday said it wouldn’t work on ambient.

ronpierce.2760:

glaphen.5230:

Now where are the rest of the summons being compared? Why do Necromancers have permanent minions that are way better than the rest that are on a timer?

Turrets:
Protection, place-able/stationary (usable as a benefit), uncrittable, unable to take DoT damage.

Phantasms:
Don’t take up utilities, and the ones that do are very powerful (phantasmal defender), and each of these last until they die or get overwritten. They also have 4 second attack cycles, just longer than minions and can crit for 3-6k consistently each.

MM:
They’ve been discussed, last forever until killed, streamlined damage but require the enemy to be controlled for uptime, and take up all utility slots.

Spirit Weapons:
Well… There’s a reason no one runs them. They’re garbage.

Spirits for ranger:
They don’t attack, they’re buffs, so there’s no reason to call them out for “AI”. Ranger pet has been nerfed pretty big already.

Sounds like they all have their ups and downs.

Phantasms scale with stats so to make Defender any decent you need a tank build and zerker phantasms have like 2000 health.

I still don’t understand spirit Ranger complaints since all of them are terrible besides Sun Spirit and Spirit of Nature, which are both decent without any traits.

Why were spirit weapons nerfed when they have been worse than minions since launch.

Why do Thief summons have 1/3 of the health and half the damage with pathetic summon durations.

Turrets are worse than minions because as listed the Engineer doesn’t have much else if he uses them besides the fact that they do less damage.

Elementalist summons are far worse than Flesh Golem because of the timer and less damage/cc.

Luke.4562:

Meh this dude is cornered and is shooting to whoever approaches him, let him be, he’s done.

Still waiting for you to answer how your complaints about Warriors don’t apply to MM Necromancer.

Now where are the rest of the summons being compared? Why do Necromancers have permanent minions that are way better than the rest that are on a timer?

Luke.4562:

Pathetic’O Meter exploded.

Ronpierce, please ignore em, just let them be, you can’t persuade this kind of people. Ignorants need their free space to express their necessities. Better they vent here than IRL on some poor innocent.

I respect your hopinion, but I’m not diffusing disinformation.

As I wrote an you confirmed, the Warrior can be countered just on his errors, and being so tanky and regenerating so much life is enough to counter whatever build which has medium to low single target damage. I’t hard to burst, hard to control, it has the total control of the fight, a large window in which he can do whatever he wants and set his attack plan, harass as much as he likes, having anyway a lot of damage from whatever weapon and gear he wears. The rest comes from his errors, if he pops badly his cooldowns, then the opponent has a chance to make it, but only if putting more focus and knowing better the situation. This is like holding the knife from the handle fro the 75% of the fight.
Ofc it requires a base of skill, but it’s level is so low that whoever can learn fast its easy combos and situation in which pop cooldowns and make a massacre as soon as he master it. Easy to master. It’s not something like Thief. Warrior’s errors are forgettable because of his innate tankyness and regeneration.

Another ridicle fact is that whatever weapon works ridicously well in whatever build.
Don’t negate that LongBow which is a condition weapon deal that much ridicle damages with a Berserker build and 0 condition damage.
The same for other weapons, Axe deal ridicle quantity of damage, Rifle deals ridicle quantity of damage, GS too, Sword, sword OH in a condition build deals so much damage it’s ridicle to see.

And even if the innate regeneration and Condi cleaner came late, Warriors have been ridiculous in pvp since the beginning, GS berserker build owning whatever class with the least effort for almost 5-6 months.. after a while the meta switched and people forget of it, claiming Warriors were underpowered and ridicle in pvp. This claim was ridicle too. And seeing so many people giving a +1 for this fact is again more ridicle.

The exact thing you were complaining about is the problem with MM Necromancers LOL?

Shadow fiend does less than wurm does.

I didn’t even say blood fiend, I was talking about wurm and bone. Playing a build that takes a trickle of skill and being high rated doesn’t mean much.

You have 2 minions that cripple on hit and they move fast. You also have 2 ranged minions that don’t move.

If single target skills aren’t hitting your minions 100% of the time you are a bad Necromancer.

ronpierce.2760:

Notice how amazing turrets are? Also, they’re immune to conditions because they’re objects.

Now explain why every other summon that lasts on a timer isn’t even half as good as any of Necromancers.

Thumper Turret: 11950
Flame Turret: 8960
Rifle Turret: 7470
Net Turret: 7470
Rocket Turret: 7470
Healing Turret: 5980

That hp doesn’t mean anything. 10k hp is incredibly low when they don’t:
- Move out of aoe.
- Don’t evade when the master dodges.
- Doesn’t have a heal.
These are the reasons players survive damage, these HP pools are not even remotely related to a player’s HP pool in terms of tankiness.

Thieves Guild:8000 health) (105-126 DPS)
Thieves Guild:8000 health) (50% slower attack speed) (410-512 DPS)

WOW why does yours have double the damage, double the hp, lasts till death and have a shorter cooldown on death?

ronpierce.2760:

Realist.5812:

^ Doesn’t matter.

As soon as you let someone, or something, play for you, you forfeit any and all personal skill, especially skill that the game would NORMALLY ask of you.

These builds aren’t skilful, nor are they fun to play with or against, spamming the screen with junk, and watching the junk smother your blinded enemy while you walk around in a circle eating with one hand, is not fun.

Minion builds also make the core game mechanic of dodging INVALID. Instead of watching and dodging skills from 1-2 players, you now have 6 things moving and attacking, which is next to impossible, you CANNOT see what is going on, and even if you dodge, you’re still being spammed at by 6 things, dodges are therefore invalidated.

Defenders can claim it isn’t op (with fluff to back it up of course), but the only person you are fooling is yourself. The rest of us know anyone who relies on others to fight their battles, is a joke.

You realize boons “play” for you once casted as much as minions play for you once casted. Press a button and take 33% less damage, immune to CC, passive evade rate increase. And let alone all the 100% passive traits that increase defenses, like blinding people when you enter stealth, regen hp when hidden, evades just innately on attacks (Mesmer/thief/ranger).

Point is, this game is filled with “press it once and soak up the benefits”. In facts it’s like 80% this. At least you can kill/kite/aoe pets and the necromancers itself is entirely hindered in other ways for this benefit. I think you need to take a deeper look at the mechanics of the entire game and you’ll realize MM pets aren’t that farfetched. They’re kitable, killable dots, no more cheesy than lagging a Meteor storm critting for 3k aoe ticks every second that covers an entire point.

Just because it has a life bar attached to it doesn’t mean it’s magically something else. If anything that life bar attached to it makes it less cheesy than the other stuff in this game.

Bone Fiend 2600 7000
Bone Minion 2125 5000
Blood Fiend 2000 13000
Shadow Fiend 2125 10700
Flesh Wurm 2470 9000
Flesh Golem 2600 13000
Jagged Horror 2125 8700

They are tanky as hell and thats without the 50% hp trait. So many zerker staff Elementalists being ignored instead of charged by your golem.

bhagwad.4281:

Decap engi counters MM. Hard. MMs have no stability. What’s the point of having a close point bunker who can’t stay on point?

Wow broken can fight broken, too bad minions can block Overcharged Shot and flesh wurm will teleport you back on. They also do only physical so they can hurt through Automated Response.

Justin ODell.9517:

I had a match that started 4v5 today, we won but it’s still annoying.

We’re working on a solution that is both fair and, hopefully, doesn’t waste people’s time. Not ready to talk about the details yet, but I will say we have definitely incorporated a lot of the community’s feedback. Unfortunately, it won’t be in this feature build because it’s part of a major refactoring of our back-end systems.

???You won a 4 vs 5 from the start? Was this hot join and not a queue or another failure in matchmaking putting a bunch of level 1-38s in a game of 40+s?