I agree with the active approach part. From my own experience as a necro, in phase 2 if lupi targets only me I won’t make it: need to dodge more often than my endurance allows. No blocks, no invulnerability skill. Just DS. Haven’t tried the 40% endurance food yet though. There might be hope if a necro were to go full PVT with 30 SR, so DS can soak up about 3 full force blows. I’m not sure if you can regenerate LF fast enough though. Possibly with D/F + A/W or something. Necro’s have it rough.
Kind of off topic but oh well.
Nice vid, awaiting even more classes to do it ^^. Can thief do it?
If you stay in lupi’s melee range only thing you need to dodge is AoE and his kick.
The biggest problem for me with this boss is, that we played about 12 hrs in experienced, good geared and balanced team, and we failed all attempts. After that, one of us went in party of 4 warriors and did Dwyna in 5 min. I give up.
This is not a game like Dark Souls. Not everyone here in all dungeons is looking for an extremely hard challenge. Just because you do not find the content challenging does not mean that it is not challenging for everyone.
He’s talking about seemingly the hardest dungeon (Arah) so obviously it shouldn’t be targetted at the average player, for them you have 5-6 other easier dungeons which are said to be easy for majority of players which means he’s below average if he complains about those easier dungeons.
The dungeons need to get tuned to be difficult to the average player, so it is understandable that some like yourself are not challenged. But to make them all at the challenge level you might prefer would be far above the difficulty threshold for a large majority of players.
Dungeons were advertised as a content for hardcore players, they should increase their difficulty level, not normalize it to average player.
And why not? Really the only hard part is do i have enough endurance and how do i live through the bubble or negate it. Food can cover endo if you lack it.
Food is just 40% of vigor, I’m more concerned about his AoE life drain where you would need to summon flesh wurm but its recharge is too long to be used reliably. General lack of swiftness (warhorn plus one utility) doesn’t help either. Necro was designed like that – his high basic health pool plus death shroud compenstates for lack of defensive skill but it might be not enough for lupi which generally requires more active aproach. I know it’s rather poor proof but usually when I pug, necros are the first ones to die.
6:50 to hit phase 2 kitten thats slow. My best is 2:30 on my D/D ele.
Sword is really bad dps weapon for that and he mostly uses autoattack. Plus 0/10/30/30/0 and his gear give him 2033 toughness and 1395 vitality, that’s rather tanky.
Look this game has three different aspects, that are all vastly different from each other. If he means PvE only something I care little about because I refuse to PvE in any game, ever again, then he needs to say PvE only. If he makes a blanket statement, one can assume he also means sPvP, and WvW.
I assume it’s pve cause the test subject is a mob.
The Ranger in my opinion is fine in PvE, based off feedback from Rangers who PvE.
True but a large chunk of pve population thinks otherwise.
I guess you don’t know the history of Chopps, and those who stand behind him, and you don’t understand that when he makes a thread like this, he’s actually talking about all aspects of the game, and trying to tell people the Ranger needs no help. He has said multiple times that if you believe the Ranger needs help, you just don’t know how to play the Ranger.
What I see here is a burst test in pve.
It’s not shocking to discover you’re a Thief, who is also supporting the idea that the Ranger class does not need any help, most importantly in WvW. I had a feeling balance wasn’t what you were looking for, I just needed you to say it.
It’s not shocking to discover you think that narrowly. I have six characters and none of them I consider “main” ideology but seems like a lot of people comes from various mmos where you’re stuck to something like “main” and not from gw1 pvp where you’re mostly stuck to role because you can reroll in 1 minute and get fully equipped and levelled character. It’s even more shocking when I see your signature.
Would you be so kind and point out where I said that ranger didn’t need any help? 5 minutes of gameplay points out a vast amount of improvements it needs, burst capability not being on the top of that list.
Because it is supposed to be a burst, or sustainable damage test, not a defense or utility test. The Ranger had the chance to do uninterrupted damage, the Warrior did not.
So you can use utility skills that help you with increasing damage (banner) but not able to take skills/use class mechanics that help you with sustaining it. Great thinking.
..as a benchmark for world vs world because a Confusion build Mesmer downed a Warrior in 6 seconds, (watch between 0:54 and 1:00) gaining Confusion tick damage in bursts with back to back damage; 5479, 5900, 6743, 7165?
People rarely complain about PvE because it is god awful easy to manage. What most people complain about, or are concerned about is world vs world, where damage is extremely high.
Show me a non-Asuran Ranger who can do the burst in world vs world the video shows the Mesmer doing against ascended geared players, and I’ll eat my words.
Get this through your thick head, this is PvE not ZvZ burst test. No one cares about unbalanced fights with double confusion damage and players that stupid. I can kill another player in less than a second with a thief against ascended geared players. Your mesmer burst is a joke compared to my thief.
It still makes the test invalid, either use it and stability is valid as well or don’t at all. Arguing that stability makes this test invalid is just a nonsense which jkctmc confirmed saying aegis would make same test invalid for guardian. It’s a class skill, how does that make any sense? You’re allowed to use your class mechanics.
Nope. The warrior could have used stability. He chose to dodge instead. The ranger could have dodged. He used stability instead. That makes it a poor comparison.
If you’re arguing against a burst test, and want a more realistic “in practical use test”… Well since rampage as one has a 120 sec cooldown for a 20 sec effect, 5/6th of time you don’t have it available. So a test that’s better representative of typical gameplay would be with the ranger dodging and the pet being disabled due to the knockdowns. Then you can compare times with the warrior dodging.
Or you can ask the warrior to redo his test using stability, and compare times to the ranger using RaO.
Stop being blind and see that warrior uses whirlwind attack which gives evade.
Yes it would be invalid, however Aegis only lasts for one hit, and the Guardian would trigger Save Yourselves to give himself the Stability needed to prevent stomp. But even the Guardian has another element here, the Ranger doesn’t in PvE. The Guardian is now racing the mob to see who kills who first, before the Guardian also has to trigger his healing.
Once you add other elements to the test, it no longer remains a benchmark for burst, or sustainable DPS.
Then warrior will always win every single dps test because that’s his way to avoid damage – dodge. Aegis lasts two hits if you actually use it and it’s a part of guardian’s mechanics meaning it is valid, otherwise we should remove evade element from whirwind attack or just say it’s not allowed to use because it deals damage when you should take it.
In the Ranger video, the Ranger never gets attacked, while able to completely ignore the stomps thanks to Rampage. This video actually shows the power of Rampage, over anything else, and how it helps the Ranger. Though once you enter WvW, the Guardians ability to give the entire group Stability greatly surpasses the usefulness of Rampage.
It’s clearly pve test, test subject is pve mob.
However, that is besides the point. PvE is ungodly easy in this game, and sPvP is nerfed pretty harsh to give the illusion of balance, and allow for an easier mode of play. The only results I’m concerned about are those gathered in WvW, where you fight smarter opponents, sometimes under the fire of siege.
Quit being so delusional. The Ranger never got hit, never had to dodge, and the giant focused the pet 100% of the time. The Warrior had to dodge, avoid being hit by the stomp, and still killed the giant faster than the Ranger by at least SIX SECONDS.
I undersand math, or the idea of math is hard for some people, but take away the multiple dodges, and the Warrior would have killed the giant by at least six seconds sooner. Giving him at least a (12) twelve second lead on the Ranger.
That is only comparable while in grade school, but once you get a high school education, you fully understand the differences.
A true test will require a length of time that both classes are required to utilize defense, a test that spans the length of minutes. It’s like saying a car built to do a quarter mile drag race is faster than a car built to do 500 laps at top speeds around the track. If you can’t understand the analogy, I’ll spell it out in more simple terms. It is false logic, and the statement becomes false.
Let me ask you this way, if the test was done with a guardian who hadn’t had to use dodges because of aegis, would it be invalid?
I watched strife’s video and your video. Hate to say it, but what I took away from them was that (1) strife chose a very poor target for a burst test, and (2) warrior burst is about 50% higher than ranger+pet burst. You used RaO for stability and didn’t have to dodge the stomps. You were pouring on damage 100% of the time. Strife spent about a quarter to a third of his time dodging and running back to melee range, not dealing damage.
How’s that different from using skills that gives vulnerability to your target? You use boons/conditions to your advantage?
Nice job on proving that ranger isn’t really that bad in offense department, it’s mostly bad players. About lupi solo challenge, I’m sure that Wethospu could do it on ranger or other classes, the issue often doesn’t lie with a class but with a player. Soloing lupi is doable definitely on warrior, guardian and elementalist.
Currently there’s sufficient encouragement for dungeon completion. (At least for most dungeons) My worry is that any change to the loot tables for trash mobs might discourage that as an unintended side effect.
True, there’s sufficient encouragement for dungeon completion with skipping everything you can. They need to adjust loot tables to incentive people to actually kill mobs. And to avoid situation like arah p3 boss runs they should improve those loot tables the further you are in dungeon/the more mobs you killed already.
im sure they do ;-) , the fact is if your forced to not be able to respawn in combat shows its a dumb design with a boss thats capable of 1 shotting left and right.
Here’s the solution for you, it works really great for me – stop getting hit.
odd that a dungeon boss would only be affecting 1 person then? cause my whole group was complaining about the same thing i saw last time i went in , and that was the bolts.
again all i see are the aoe bolts , and when not standing in a red circle BOOM random bolt. yes ive kept track of this , you cant keep track of it and you just die.
Strangely, it doesn’t happen to me so the issue must be on your side.
so shall we go to the part where theyre not noticeable when they come out with the aoe , where they just 1 shot you past downed state to full death? you literally dont see them unless your far enough away from lupi and the aoe. and if you cant see the animation of a 1 shot KO , that is the full definition of BS , sorry to say.
none of the groups i did it with ever pulled him out of the room <,< , well none of the ones before not being able to respawn. always fought him in his room. now hes just stupid , any time we used WPs in ANY dungeon during combat is cause theyre far and few and some of us just try to get a headstart on the way back , as well as some bosses <cough lupi> just does nothing but full blown 1 shots left and right , hence why zerg rushing was needed. as i said if only1 of his skills was 1 shot and was just a dodge check (like his charge for example) then its reasonable and the no respawn thing is not an issue. again i say this should not have been done BEFORE dungeons were actually balanced.
They were pulling him a long time ago but anet fixed it, I’m sure you would like to do it. There are people soloing him, how hard it must be if you think you need to graveyard zerg him. All of his skills except necrid trap in phase 3 are dodgeable with simple dodge. I hope they won’t change lupi a bit, maybe even make him harder so it actually requires some hard work.
1) ive had random bolts come out of NOWHERE that are easily not noticeable that insta kill you and bypass downed state , 2) not every one of those will be available and with Lupi charging whoever (randomly) its still stupid cause not everyone brings those skills , and as far as ranger the only thing i can pop while rezzing is SoS , everyone else will be trying to avoid those projecticles of instant death , his charge , and his aoe. lets face it this is DUMB BEYOND all belief , noone new to the game will want to even continue playing the game with that kind of fight thats in EVERY path. maybe if just his charge was 1 shot KO it would be acceptable , but this is not the case , with these bolts its flatout stupid.
And yes i have done the fight a couple of times already to know the general gist (prior to this BS anti respawn function in a game that NEEDS it with no holy trinity and bosses like lupi that either 1 shot or have an insane amount of health (HotW exp path 2 , legendary with 2 champs) , any other things you feel like throwing to make yourself look like a fool?
Those “random bolts” hardly come out of nowhere. Do you want every single projectile to have red circle because you can’t see the animation? Leave at least come bosses challenging unlike 99% of the rest where you can even go afk while being in melee.
no i want it to be reasonable , sadly that concept eludes you , and no i havent had any other trouble with dungeons as badly as this one (probably HotW Exp Path 2 the boss with 2 champs being the only other exception) , the fact is hes faceroll BS that 1 shots you with all of his skills , some like the bolts you cant even see coming till your already full blown dead…..guess the concept of something being reasonable and challenging rather then just BS stupid eludes you….good day jester.
You’re hardly reasonable, you just cry about content being too hard for you. Somehow people finish Arah on daily basis without whining as much as you do.
CM Path 1 for instance: Frost is INCREDIBLY hard and a total kitten to fight unless you can zerg him to death, which you no longer can.
He basically perma-freezes the entire team, then takes you all out individually with high damage. You can’t dodge unless you’re one of the lucky few that has endurance refill utility skills, you can barely keep up with condition removal because he is ALWAYS putting freezes on you, and even the most tanky person on our team was getting 2-3 shotted by his frost gun.
It’s a very, very broken boss for what is supposed to be a lvl 45 dungeon. With res rushing? Totally possible. Without? Nearly impossible.
I consider this post nice troll attempt but anyone doing CM will know better. Frost is really easy boss, I’ve done it two days before and I can’t really recall anything hard and bear in mind that I had 2 firsttimers.
They can’t really add anything above greens as 100% drops from chests, otherwise people will just start farming the first parts of specific dungeons, like people used to farm 15s and loot bags from Arah.
They could increase loot tables of chests the further you are in dungeon, so the last chest has much better drops than the first.
Has anyone completed this recently? I just attempted this fight and had no success. Now, I’m well aware that after initially getting her to 50%, every stealth after that is time based. However, she would stealth at 50% every single time.
We had a mesmer with us so there were times when he would use time warp and we would get her down to 50 again in as little as 20 seconds and then boom, she stealths again. It was literally impossible to get her below 50. She was stealthing way faster than 1 minute. Yes, I was paying attention to the time, I am not guessing here.
It took you too long to get her below 50% after she reappeared. Reasons are two – you are too slow with running sparks, consider trying 4-1 or 3-2 and secondly, you could have too low dps that you had to compansate with fast enough runs. So either, improve your spark runs or get more dps, the latter being easier I guess. Another thing, she wasn’t buffed recently, in fact she was made easier for spark runners.
So any other class can never ever pass this and get Dungeon master, great mechanics that then..needs a fix..
Every combination of the classes need to be able to pass 100% of this games content, or we need the trinity back.. at least that worked..
I was making fun (aka t*******) of him. Every combination of classes can work, but not every combitnation of builds, eg. 5 condition damage dealers is really bad idea because of how conditions interact with each other. But that’s not dungeons’ flaw, it’s game mechanic flaw.
Yeah that happened to me as well a few times couple weeks ago. When I did it again last week, it would restealth repeatedly at 50%. So honestly, I have no clue if anything was changed.
It might be that you have specific time to get her hp below 50% after she reappears, so if your dps is quite good you can do it even with 75%.
No, tbh i think bolas is 3 seconds, LB skill 5 is 5 seconds, stomp is 2 second knockdown, as is bulls charge.
I would love to put my warrior in practice against your theif – afterall, i tailored my build around beating theives as they were the only issue i faced in WvW / PvP.
For a change, hover your mouse cursor on that skill and check again, it’s 3s without any +cond duration. Secondly, I own both thief and warrior and I actually can tell their weaknesses and strong points. Thirdly, do you even know about existance of this function called dodge?
Dueling is pointless because this thread is about PvE so it will prove nothing (unless you think rangers are very good in PvE cause they are in PvP) and even then thieves are better at PvP (check top tournamets teams’ rosters).
Okay, i appologise that my figures weren’t exactly on the dot but unfortunately i have a life outside of Tyria so don’t memorise every inch.
That being said i respect you correcting me, although, you are wrong. I run Full zerkers armor along with balance trinkets (trifoge amulet, solaria circle of sun, sunari circle of moon, 2 x ancient karka shell earring). My only healing comes from these Trinkets and also my Sup runes of divinity. Even with this Very minimal healing i heal for 1700hp each shout, so your 1k is wholly inacurate.
Your figures are still even more inaccurate than his. Shouts heal for 1192 without any healing power, scaling factor is equal to 0.8 so in order to heal for 1700hp you need to have 635 healing power. Nice waste of statistic points.
I was wrong in what i said, you were wrong in what you said – 2 wrongs dont make a right but dont speak to me like you are some eliteist of a higher order than me.
And as for your dungeons comment, is there only one mob to fight in a dungeon? Because last i checked i fought more than one ‘boss’ on the way to the Final Boss. Yes, certain bosses convert conds to buffs – either way dude, every mob i hit with OMM goes down 10% faster… (albeit for a given time)… correct?
He meant that a vast amount of bosses are partially immune to vulnerability, it lasts much shorter than on normal mobs.
And to finish, i never said that Throw Bolas -> 100B was flawless – but it does work wonders when you have a d/d theif trying to dance around you. In case you were wondering my 2nd weapon is LB – this also has 5sec Immob – not to mention stomp / bulls charge. Yeah, sure, they’ll be able to break 1 maybe 2 immob but 2 immobilize + 2 knowckdowns – now i think that would be a struggle. After all, 100B only need to hit a theif once and they won’t be getting up.
So now you have two 5s immobilize skills, it just keeps getting better. I can tell fairy tales how warriors keep dying to stealth+cnd+backstab combo all day long, doesn’t mean it’s an actual image of balance. A thief can just teleport away from your immobile 100b even if you immobilize him beforehand (or just use black powder and troll you).
This title has less prestige than Master Crafter and gives only 10 achievement points. You better do jumping puzzle if you want just those little points.
And Giganticus Lupicus on all paths needs to stop summoning 2 grubs simultaneously into phase 2 and nerf his phase 2 attacks. many of my parties have dropped like flies and it is impossible to revive since he’ll assault ressurectors! not all playsers have cat like reflexes!
You might be trolling because of all those exclamation marks but lupicus doesn’t spawn 2 grubs. It’s your party fault to keep attacking him while someone is infected which seemingly gives an impression of two grubs being spawned. Either stop attacking him when he’s near 75% whenever someone is infected or you know, try to dodge. For phase 2, I can only say that pugs make it about 3-4 times longer than it should have last which leads to many deaths because once again, pugs won’t even change traits/utilites for this fight.
Arah in general needs a huge nerf hammer. I’ve seen alot of dungeons in my time, this one is perhaps the most hardcore of them all. Near impossible in many cases, I’ve seen hardmode raids that have easier mechanics.
The only hard mechanic is using dodge. Do you want Arah on same level as CoF/AC? Because huge nerfs will lead to it.
This what not true from our experience, using the 4/5 method we could get her to 30% which should put her in Phase 2. We found she would regen 15-20% health in the time it took us to run Sparks, which was between 5-7 seconds assuming they did not bug out which did happen from time to time. She would restealth as short at 15 seconds after coming out of stealth, even when below the 60% threshold. We were not capable of removing 20% health in less than 15 seconds, making the fight impossible as she would continue to heal back up and get back to Phase 1.
That loop you described is either random or bugged and happens sometimes, whenever it happens I just keep running in hope it won’t happen again or put 3-4 sparks and then put 2-1 the next time.
Secondly, what I’m about to say it’s going to contradict what I’ve been trying to say before but if your whole team can get her to 30% it means you have an average dps of a single warrior. Two warriors can bring her to 10%.
Oh boy, what could have we missed in genious way ‘dps, put in sparks fast,dps as hell’?
She stealths at 50% if you failed to run sparks fast enough. No amount of dps would help you unless you could 1 shot her. Your ‘dps, put in sparks fast,dps as hell’ is the reason why this topic exists in the first place.
Okay then, I said 5 necros, not 5 condi necros. He can give them whatever build he wants, if he kills destroyer in one cycle i bow and admit the boss health should be buffed. But i doubt he could do it even in 2 cycles….
5 glass cannons necros are able to do it in 2 cycles. For 1 cycle you will probably need timewarp.
Necros don’t suck with single target dps, their skills don’t cleave, that’s the issue with dps.
Meh Simin was just another warriorfest, everyone i know including me just did her 4-1 anyway, nobody cared for sparks.
That just substantiates what I’ve been trying to tell for some time now. You can either kill her as designer intended, brute force it or complain how you can’t brute force it.
You ask why would he take 5 condition dealers? Well bcs he complains about doing content too fast while he runs the highest dps combo possible.
Thats like Usain Bolt asking to be shot in the foot before running 100m.
So I recomend him to take 5 condi dealers when he wants content to take longer, but dont force us to roll warriors in every dung.
That’s same situation as 2manning dungeon except you are more resilient (5 hp bars instead of 2) and you can complete parts that can’t be 2man.
Arenanet promised that it wont matter what classes you run, yet it does matter(as you said yourself: “2 is the max you should take with the current limitations.”).
It’s not that classes matter, builds do. You can take 5 necros but 3 of them have to be power necros or some hybrids.
If you think he has too low hp, dont run with 3 wars and time warp mesmer ^^ go take 3 necros and engineer instead and i promise you it ll be like “good ol times” => 3 cycles.
Why would you take 5 condition damage dealers when 2 is the max you should take with the current limitations. If you have more than 2 they simply don’t contribute at all to overall damage.
Srsly you ppl complain about anything, the boss was so boring before, if you didnt have tw and 2+ wars, now its all about coordination and not so much about the class anymore.
So which boss isn’t boring because I can go afk with a glass cannon thief in melee on most of them. When you have a boss that requires slight engaging instead of usual auto attack spam we have cries/whines/suicide notes to nerf it (check Simin).
Can anyone suggest a good glass cannon build? I would suppose full berserker’s as for gear, its more for dungeons/farming world so will need some kinda of dodge upkeep and still beable to dish out damage
Also suggestions on runes and sigils would be helpful
Thanks in advanced for any input
You will probably be told that you should run something like 0/0/30/30/0 with 10 free points.
I currently run 20/25/0/20/5 with either greatsword or hammer and scepter/mace/focus/shield depending on situation.
For sigils, I recommend Sigil of Force/Accuracy or get second greatsword/hammer with bloodlust and once you get enough stacks swap to the one with Sigil of Force/Accuracy. 2nd weapon set’s sigils are pretty free choice, though I recommend Sigil of Energy.
Runes – Soldier’s are always good choice or if you have balls, grab Ruby Orbs.
this boss is just stupid. came to her for the first with a good group of who never did her before (no the OMGBERSERKWARRIORS only). I am telling good, cause we had no problems with trash ans Lupi what so ever. And then there was Simin, 2 hours wasted and we did all the tricks, but she would just pop invis att 50% no matter how fast we dpsed her and put in spark.
Unclear why is there suddenly a boss with a dps check at all (dps check THAT hardcore). really not what arena stands for in their manifesto.
Seems like you weren’t aware of what to do at all if she’s was stealthing constantly at 50%.
