Second point about your earthshaker, it’s rubbish compared to a knockdown. The best thing a group of people do in a zerg vs zerg or group vs group fight is stick tight together. Simply stunning them with a hammer will keep them in position, just unable ot use skill for a second or two. Knockdown with dagger#5 when elementalist is attuned to Air, actually disperses your enemies, knocks down AND disperses your enemy causing disorientation. There’s no way the stun from earth shaker compares to knockdown from dagger#5.
I thought aoe was considered op and it’s getting nerf.
No my issue is not with water and fire, my issue is with the fact that d/d eles HAVE ACCESS to fire and water instantly, while in combat, while still maintaining the ability to have these knockdowns in combat, whereas the warrior liek you said, has to equip a hammer for CC purposes, and then when he’s in combat, that one weapon set he has is completely limited to CC type gameplay.
You can’t equip 2 weapons?
Alternatively, d/d ele, ride lightning in, activate Shocking Aura (control effect), wait until everyone has a good stun, then dagger #5, everyone knockdown, > switch to fire, breath fire on everyone and leave ring of fire (dagger #2 and #2), press dagger#3 when they get up so they can’t catch you, inflict damage with dagger #3 > switch to earth, knocdown everyone again, bleed them all with dagger#2 > switch to water, freeze everyone, heal self, mist form out and escape, and restart cycle again.
Admitedly this is skilled play, but there ARE d/d eles that can do this, hence you have videos of them facing 1vs4 or 1vs5,, warriors have no possibility of doing that no matter how skilled.
And they barely deal any damage with it. Most eles in wvw play bunkers and eles were nerfed rather hardly unlike warriors who weren’t nerfed at all.
If all else fails in my explaination to you, then why is it that in PvP gameplay, eles are rated the best, and warriors the worst?
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/pvp/pvp/sPvP-Class-Tier-List/first
I may have missed thread title but I can’t use food in pvp.
If the warrior is the “master of weapons”, then when not make it so he can have 3 or even 4 weapon sets? (doing so would just mean we have an equal number of abilities to use at one time) so we can match an elementalist. That way, I can have my dps build, and if I wish to stun someone with earthshaker (which is slow and not as good as ele’s knockdown), then I can do that and quickly switch to any of my DPS weapon sets.
You do know ele skills have about 2x increased recharge than you have on warrior and untraited it takes 15s to swap back to same attunement?
(edited by haviz.1340)
If he wants to burst, sigil of air is better, its damage modifier is 1.1 while fire is 1.0.
It should be minor trait (check guardian and mesmer equivalents).
I honestly don’t know why you insist on hammer as 2nd weapon. Hammer is best used when just autoattacking with occasional mighty blow, it’s nowhere good as 2nd weapon.
If I go 30 in honour it’s for EM (or 2h mastery, depending on party composition) which gives steady +175 power across whole party, that’s about +8%dps for whole party (assuming everyone has 2000 power). 30% in valor is +15%dps with your crit chance and +21%dps when you have fury.
I don’t know if it works correctly but here you have
The difference is 192.49 in effective power in favour of former but it doesn’t include fury and EM.
- Without fury, if you add 175 power, second build has an advantage of 262.44 effective power.
- If we include fury (+420 precision) second build has an advantage of 200.49 effective power.
I don’t know how correctly those models are and it’s assuming you won’t have more than 20 stacks of might. On top of that you can have 1h weapon with +15% crit chance with second build or you can swap to hammer if situations calls for it and grab symbols-related traits which you can’t do with first build without respeccing. Flaw is of course less survivability due to not taking MF/AH.
I could also compare 15/25/30/0/0 to 20/25/0/25/0 but seeing as endurance is rather hard to model factor I disregarded that.
I just helped out guildies who couldn’t get through frac40, with my support build they never downed once.
It’s not even “full” support as I still have 40% crit or so.
100% protection duration, massive amounts of crazy team healing and 12might + Xmight from VoJ while being pratically invincible is much better than “Hey I just hit this mob for 4k, Warrior friend! I almost matched the final hit of HB! Hey did you just die due to no Protection? Sorry… I so wanted to deal some DPS”.But I realize most people who play Guardians will just think they’re dealing good DPS etc etc.
So the “note to new Guardians” should rather be: You are not a DPS. A Ranger pet outdamages you. You give perma protection and crazy heals, do not dump them to hit mobs for nothing on glass gear.
So true. I have around 90% chance to crit with fury and no food, 75% protection duration, 12might while being practically invincible. And I hit for 5.7k with autoattack.
Wish I could use tome of courage much more often.
she’s not, it just seemed like it because her regen was so fast, infact dmging her while she was regening is how people beat her.
She was invulnerable while being stealthed since 14th Dec patch.
I’m proud everytime I beat grenth’s priest without falling asleep. Who cares about simin, nerf him.
Heh, there goes my tokens.
I’ve said that standard dps build is 0/15/30/20/5.
We’re talking about damage and you’re saying something about toughness.
I don’t know if you are a troll or a court jester.
(edited by haviz.1340)
The build you posted previously won’t even do 33% of your old warrior build. Even in full zerker and standard 0/15/30/20/10 you do about 66% of good ol’ zerker warrior build.
You’re sure you want to reroll to guardian and do 3x less damage?
Who uses 0/15/30/20/5 for dps builds?
Most guardians plays like a tank/support, not dps. If you want real comparison, try to solo lupi with hammer and lets compare our times. I’ve done it with GS.
Renewing stamina should now be minor trait.
I might say Alphard once they fix it. IIRC, spin attack is unblockable so if it’s also unreflectable/absorbable…
It’s absorbable.
What spin attack? The one she never uses?
once they fix it
I’m not sure why most Guardians care so much about their DPS.
Even on the glassest build you’re dealing half the DPS of a Warrior and probably less than other classes as well; if we had a DPS meter you would realize that your DPS doesn’t really matter compared to what others deal.
You’re probably comparing guardian standard template 0/15/30/20/5 with warrior 20/30/0/0/20 without even including damage from other sources like reflections. Then yea, guardian does around 40% less damage than warrior.
Prove me wrong.
You’re dismissing few rather important factors. I agree that hammer has better autoattack but you’re missing gained power from attacking (if you hit 3 mobs its +105 power for 3s without any boon duration).
You’re also chose to ignore my statement about traits selection. What is your dps build for hammer? We should compare fully-fledged builds not autoattacks.
Daze (seemed to be a regular swipe and quite often), fear, regular AoE knockback. Cripple/bleed projectile.
Seems like anet is trolling us.
Disable the shadows. It’s obviously a bug related to the shadows, disabling them (and only them, I didn’t lower any other graphic option) returned my framerate to its optimal state.
I guess they didn’t do much Q/A on this patch..
Or they play with shadows turned off!
Sure, check my sig. That’s one of them. Don’t bother to check it though, I’m sure your just going to tell me it’s uber crap since I’m not using GS and don’t have 20 in Honour. :p
It is rather extraordinary build. But I’m not the one who plays with greatsword all the time and I don’t have 20 in honour as well. I experiment with different kinds of builds (gs, sword, hammer) and the only reason I would pick hammer is when I’m the only melee in pug group or in (almost) full melee team that has survivability issues.
Glad I don’t make standard hammer builds. I wouldn’t want anyone to mistake me for one of those gimp hammer users ><
Seriously though, you don’t need 20 in honour for hammer to be ‘decent’. An extra tick on symbol isn’t going to differentiate it’s damage from another weapon. Maybe if the kill cycle for most mobs was on the order of ticks on a symbol, you would have a point. But then again, hammer symbol does down alot more frequently than a GS symbol. It evens out. It’s not like there are orders of magnitude difference here. I estimate a typical damage variation between them at about 10%.
Yes, GS does more attacks that have damage. That’s not relevant because your attacks flow in a serial manner regardless of weapon. You don’t do more damage just because you have more attacks that make damage.
Could you list your build for hammer then?
Facepalm.
One probably thinks the big numbers of whirling wrath are ‘per hit’ numbers and the other likes his GS too much.
Facts can be harsh my little puppies.
Yes, that’s right I like my greatswords but let me elaborate.
For hammer to work decently you need at least 20 if not 30 in honour. That makes you losing traits like fiery wrath, radiant power, greatsword power or powerful blades, blinding exposure (which is somewhat bugged with leap of faith).
Let me explain this as clear as possible, your standard hammer build does less damage than standard gs build because of traits not because of strong autoattacks in heart of the mists with virtue of justice being active. Another thing, hammer has virtually 2 skills that deal damage, greatsword – 5. Maybe you missed it but people did some tests in the mists.
It’s called math. The auto-attack damage of the Hammer is extremely high, but you need the enemy to stand inside of the symbol, meaning the full DPS can only be used in PvE. Mighty Blow deals more DPS than Whirling Wrath as well. Overall, Hammer deals more damage.
It’s called faulty math.
Not viable in WvW anymore, sorry.
It’s a dungeon subforum -.-
Guardians can’t have high CritChance.
Heh ;D
Food change actually nerfed Berserker Warriors (other classes too but perhaps people can’t survive glass anymore). So perhaps we will see a change.
It was rather OP with sword guardians or in certain fractals with AoE weapons.
Pop yourself into the mists and find out.
GS: whichever combo you like
vs
Hammer: auto attackIt’s been that way for a while. +perma protection. I just can’t imagine using any other weapon for PVE.
Ever occured to you to disable virtue of justice?
Seeing how new patch improves rather supportish side of guardian I can see 0/0/30/30/0 being almost standard now (instead of usual 0/0/30/20/0). Fixed pure of voice coupled with runes of soldier brings condition-free environment. That trait setup will unfortunately bring even more faceroll (“I can tank even better”).
Hammer: Good AoE burst and CC, lacks a solid auto-attack for PvP, but has highest PvE DPS. Best PvE weapon.
Hammer highest pve dps weapon? Was there a patch I missed?
Is this the giant daggerstorm 1 shot thing he/she (which is it) does when you don’t stack up? Doesn’t feel like it makes it much worse, just have to play with your eyes open. We 3-manned her and we were having fun the whole time. Better than YET ANOTHER afk faceroll damage sponge, even if it makes it take a bit longer.
It’s definitely she, at least before she died. Try soloing or 2manning her, it’s definitely more fun.
This is not an Alphard-specific feature y’know.
And yes, she’s tedious when one ability can negate so much of her mechanics.
It’s not just her but it’s a topic about Arah (Love). What are her mechanics anyway except pull&barrel and spin? Clones? Mesmer makes this fight ridiculously short, effortless and trivial.
I’d rather have more bosses like lupicus or simin than autoattack bosses when you have 1 certain proffesion in your team composition.
Actually, in terms of dps, you should try 0/25/0/25/20, bountiful water gives nice dps bonus.
Why would you let Alphard do her stupid spin2win ability to begin with?
Because it’s probably not working as intended (punching her during her animation stops her from spinning). Robert just needs to get PM (I seriously should pm him with every exploit I know in Arah). I’m waiting expectantly to see “Alphard being tedious” threads when it happens.
You’re still comparing 30/30 build to 10/30/30. You’re still adding +12,5% (hammer/gs, you can’t say “for the sake of comparison” while it invalidates it in the first place). You can’t include oils because they’re bad in pve. You’re not including -20% recharge for 2h, writ of exaltation or superior aura and elusive power. Next thing, non-stationary foes in pve? And most important thing, you still want to tank.
Also, dps builds for guardians have around 90-105% crit chance with fury and +60precision food.
Your math is wrong. Even with 10/30/30 which lets say is really nice dps configuration your dps is like this (assuming no might stacks, 100% crit chance which is very generous for crit damage and +110% crit damage)
2181 (power) * (1 + 1 * 1.6) * 1.1 (fiery wrath) * 1.1 (radiant power) * 1.1 (potion) * 1.05 (powerful blades) = 7924.9471
With 15/30/0/25/0 (sword build):
2231 * (1 + 1 * 1.3) * 1.1 (fiery wrath) * 1.1 (radiant power) * 1.1 (potion) * 1.1 (elusive power) * 1.05 (powerful blades) = 7888,373
With 25 stacks of might it’s 11067.94248 vs 10946.84144
I left out weapon damage and skill modifier “for the sake of comparison” and assumed sword build because 10/30/30 is rather 1h build, not GS. For GS, it’s much better to get 20/25/25 or 15/25/30 if you really want 30 points in valor.
We can put down our simple math, it doesn’t really matter. The difference is not big enough to be stuck in 0/0/30/20/5 template or just 0/0/30/0/0.
EDIT: I compared 30/30/10/0/0 to 10/30/30/0/0 (GS builds) and the difference is much in favour for the former.
Even after that consideration, the only reason valor is good for dps is not because of AH but because of 30% crit dmg which I believe is the one the biggest mistake anet did with guardians (every other profesion’s prowess is increased through precision of 5th trait line).
Last thing, with 15 in zeal vulnerability from symbols lasts 3.5s
I don’t know, maybe you’re better guardian than me but what build would you suggest for gs/sword+x disregarding survivability and going straigth for dps. I’m up for suggestion, I’m testing various builds, 10/30/30/0/0 being my current one. Significant stats (dps-wise) were listed in my previous post.
(edited by haviz.1340)
-snip-
I don’t play with 30/25 for dps or with a hammer. Plus, +%dmg traits stack multiplicatively. So far, best dps setups are either 25/25/0/25/0, 20/30/0/20/0 or their various derivatives.
You’re not even counting 15 and 25 minor traits but they add minor dps increase and your 30/25 lacks 10 points you gave to yours.
Using oils/stones for pve is much worse than potions. You’ll have 3-5% more to crit, I’ll have +10% more dmg (which most likely stacks multiplicatively).
One more thing, why your full zerker builds have bonus to toughness and vitality? Mine don’t.
Build I’m now testing has 10/30/30/0/0 to see how it feels (with MF instead of AH). Stats without any buffs, sigils, foods are:
Power: 2180
Precision: 2018
Toughness: 1216
Vitality: 916
Additional Crit dmg: 110% or 109% (1h or 2h)
Crit chance: 71% or 56% (1h or 2h)
(edited by haviz.1340)
i think he meant if you solely focus on either stat. i.e. if you focus purely on crit chance, you’ll hit DR for that stat. likewise for crit dmg. so you’ll be tryign to find a “sweet spot” for crit chance % and crit damage %. easier said than done of course.
It doesn’t work like that, it’s linear combination of crit chance and crit damage. Linear never implies diminishing returns.
Not really sure on the other guys builds but admittedly I, as the asuran guardian of the group am gimped for the sole reason that I enjoy to play that way.
I use
- 0/5/30/30/5
- Magi (Power/Vitality/Healing power) gear
- 3 Monk / 3 Water
- Soldiers main hands / Knights off hands (Scepter / Shield : Sword / Torch)
- (Because of the crap selection of ascended gear for guardians forcing you between toughness or precision when as a guardian you need both) I use:
– Ascended Soldiers neck
– Ascended Wayfarer/Zerker rings
– Exotic Cleric/Knight accessories
– Wubwub Cleric backpack with Knight jewel
(Ideally I would like to keep my Soldiers neck, gain 2 infused Knights rings with +healing infusion and the same for my Accesories/Backpack.)I enjoy the way that my character plays 100%, great survivability and altruistic healing works well (would work better with the right accessories). But in no means have I specced myself to bring lupus down. I really don’t enjoy the hammer/GS meta builds before you suggest them.
You chose to play faceroll build and are complaining about what exactly? You can solo him with your current traits/gear. It’ll take some time (circa 30-40 minutes) though.
Requirements for joining:
-Your characters are on a NA server
-Be experienced at a path or paths in Arah (be experienced at Lupicus)
-Have full exotic gear
-Have a ranged weapon on you (warrior- rifle, guardian – scepter + focus or sheild, theif – bow)
-Have a good attitude and respect others.
-Don’t be pushy or elitist
I simply can’t resist from saying that but no one can meet those criteria. Good luck though.
FOTM is an example of a perfectly paced dungeon. Just the right amount of trash.
If you tried clearing Arah’s normally… you’d be there for hours.
Yea, those dredge hordes are in perfect numbers.
Thats why AH is a must
If you don’t die at all (in PvE) without AH, why taking it in the first place?
Because Fractals have a ton of puzzles and things where class utility > DPS. it also helps that unlike dungeons, fractals are full of regular mobs, standard veterans, few champions and of course bosses are legendary.
True, plowing through horde of regular/veteran mobs feels so satisfying and it’s so faceroll it’s how should dungeons look like.
So I was just rejected from a team at Lupicus because I wasn’t a Guardian.
Serves you well. Btw, can I still join that team with my guardian?
Anyone with less then basic lvl 80 exotics deserve to be kicked.
I’d rather take someone in rares who knows what to do and contributes just 11.5% less than someone who tries to tank and does 66% less damage.
Since we have rather opposite opinions on that matter and we won’t reach consensus, shall we at least try to divide necessity of AH/MF in different game types? I can’t comment WvW but for me it’s completely unnecessary in PvE and let’s say 50/50 necessary in PvP. Now, I know this answer won’t satisfy you but I play computer games for fun and where’s the fun when you play build with absurdic survivability. I’d rather spent quality time on the floor and analyze what went wrong than be satisfied with my rather above average survivability. I had exactly same attitude in gw1. I was playing builds that were straying from meta in gvg yet they were (imo) more fun, less stagnant and gave more satisfaction once you mastered them.
“Doing content” right now is highly inefficient from every point of view.
I know what meta means and in this case, in wvw in particular, a build without AH isnt the best so atm meta and “best” are the same. Any build out there becomes either a wet noodle or a squischy without it.
What gives you AH? Survivability. If you think you can’t survive despite numerous blinds, blocks, reflections and defensive boons you need that. However, it’s not needed at all.
Its like the the healway guardian, trait that but instead of stacking virtues and honor go for a 0/0/30/20/20 build with clerics and it gets even more powerful. Builds without AH are gimmicks and/or retal easy mode.
How are builds without AH gimmicks? Are you that narrow-minded?
Anything without AH or monks focus isnt competitive, other then in duel situation, and this is true in wvw and Tpvp. Tbh i cant see myself loosing out versus any build that hasnt got AH as long as i run a retal/cleric/AH setup.
I just checked few meta tPvP builds and less than a half had AH. I don’t play wvw so I won’t comment that but it’s highly imbalanced.
Your non-AH vs AH/retal/cleric is rather strange comparison. Yours is most likely a bunker.
The thing is you can have AH and also have all the other means of mitigation that any other build has, so not using AH is gimping your self. So if you consider AH to be unneccessary is moot, if you want to max your build AH or Monks focus should be in there.
Why do you need even more damage mitigation when those I listed are enough (technically speaking AH doesn’t mitigate damage)? You’re neglecting other aspects of guardian in favour of more survivability which is not necessary in most cases.
What does “max your build” mean anyway? Max in what aspect? Damage? Survivability? Support?
Relogging should fix it if nothing else works, but it’s obviously not an option if you started the instance.
You can relog even if you are instance owner provided you won’t swap characters and be back in ~10 minutes.
Dunno about you, I never got carried in any part of the game.
I wasn’t pointing fingers, just explaining my point of view. I’ve met a lot more dungeon masters that were bad than dungeon masters that weren’t.