Guild Wars 2

hmm we used to get empyreal fragments for the daily

@title

no

the main problem with core engi versus any elite spec is that most of the meta builds have offense coupled with strong defense. any matchup against at least half of the classes will go something like:

• you throw all 5 nades
• they evade/block/invuln/nullify the damage while attacking you, and you have to take the damage

and since you have to take that damage, you lose.

it doesnt really matter how well you set up the fight, if you land your rifle 4 and 2, if you pull, or if you do any of it from invis. the elite specs incorporate stunbreaks, stability, protection, etc, and are prepared to deal with your engagement and counter it with skills you could never have even dreamed of having before HoT, because the devs gave us a bunch of things that simply do 2 or 3 skills’ worth of things at once.

ninja buffed a while back i think, i dont remember seeing it in patch notes. watch yo kitten and git gud ;D

glob shot sucks to land and the weakness only lasts for 1 attack and the poison duration is laughable but guys this kit is already killing our build variety in conjunction with alchemy and doesnt need buffs =/

DGraves.3720:

insanemaniac.2456:

DGraves.3720:

insanemaniac.2456:

DGraves.3720:

insanemaniac.2456:

lLobo.7960:

insanemaniac.2456:

lLobo.7960:

Can you include a coefficient for skill level, so I can adjust the values based on my performance on each situation and decide what sigil to use in case I’m not at my best at the moment? [/s]

minimum acceptable for raiding is .75. “pretty good” is .9-.95.

additive or multiplicative?
does it influence base stats or final dmg?

additive, duh.

It’d be multiplicative.

he’s being facetious, so I was being sarcastic

So am I.

my bad, I couldn’t tell from your 3 words.

I wonder what this game would be like if we did have rank coefficients like they do in Chess. Which quarter do you think you’d sit in? Top 25? Upper mid?

meh

frankly my engi play is stagnant since engi isnt in demand in high end pve like the other other ezmode, moste potente deepz, or moar versatile classes. i have one of everything, and engi isnt special any more. just requires more concentration, leaving more room for error, and errors are more punishing and time wasting in high end pve.

DGraves.3720:

insanemaniac.2456:

DGraves.3720:

insanemaniac.2456:

lLobo.7960:

insanemaniac.2456:

lLobo.7960:

Can you include a coefficient for skill level, so I can adjust the values based on my performance on each situation and decide what sigil to use in case I’m not at my best at the moment? [/s]

minimum acceptable for raiding is .75. “pretty good” is .9-.95.

additive or multiplicative?
does it influence base stats or final dmg?

additive, duh.

It’d be multiplicative.

he’s being facetious, so I was being sarcastic

So am I.

my bad, I couldn’t tell from your 3 words.

DGraves.3720:

insanemaniac.2456:

lLobo.7960:

insanemaniac.2456:

lLobo.7960:

Can you include a coefficient for skill level, so I can adjust the values based on my performance on each situation and decide what sigil to use in case I’m not at my best at the moment? [/s]

minimum acceptable for raiding is .75. “pretty good” is .9-.95.

additive or multiplicative?
does it influence base stats or final dmg?

additive, duh.

It’d be multiplicative.

he’s being facetious, so I was being sarcastic

lLobo.7960:

insanemaniac.2456:

lLobo.7960:

Can you include a coefficient for skill level, so I can adjust the values based on my performance on each situation and decide what sigil to use in case I’m not at my best at the moment? [/s]

minimum acceptable for raiding is .75. “pretty good” is .9-.95.

additive or multiplicative?
does it influence base stats or final dmg?

additive, duh.

lLobo.7960:

Can you include a coefficient for skill level, so I can adjust the values based on my performance on each situation and decide what sigil to use in case I’m not at my best at the moment? [/s]

minimum acceptable for raiding is .75. “pretty good” is .9-.95.

Jerus.4350:

Anyways, I can think of a few changes that I’d like to see and would make these skills things I might take. Rocket boots being a targetted leap would be nice due to how often it likes to shoot you off in weird directions, like jump shot on rifle but further. Mine Field having it’s cast reduced would be a good first step for that. Analyze would make more sense to me as an AoE like the Stealth Gyro’s skill, but not sure if people would rather the long range? Utility goggles is a tough one because reactive lenses gives it to you automatically so making it powerful would be tough, but just with baseline gadgeteer overcharge it gives might as well as fury which is not bad.

these sound good.

idk how viable to rocket boots thing is but it would be neat.

mine field needs a radius increase too, it didnt get the forceful explosives baseline merge.

analyze is fundamentally flawed as it is in that its proactive instead of reactive, a pbaoe like sneaks reveal would fix that but the long range / single target nature is interestingly different from a pbaoe and ought to be kept in some way so its different.

gadgeteer definitely needs something that isnt what it is atm.

Manuhell.2759:

insanemaniac.2456:

dont be ridiculous.

• flamethrower auto buff
• juggernaut w/ mass momentum & applied force
• nade/mortar auto nerfs
• glass cannon
• rocket boots overhaul
• napalm specialist (pvp nerf and a pve sidegrade)
• heavy armor exploit & high caliber
• shaped charge
• skilled marksman
• pinpoint distribution
• reactive lenses
• streamlined kits

all of these traits and skills have been made or remade with pve as either the only consideration or a consideration equal to wvw or pvp, cuz they are all either used solely in pve (as primarily damage buffs) or widely used across multiple game modes (cuz they provide excellent utility).

What should that list prove? Most of those skills aren’t seeing any use in any serious PvE content, so if those changes were made for PvE, they weren’t successful at all. Some of those traits are just the byproduct of previous pvp related nerfs (like the old kit refinement, or even the first juggernaut) or changes made to simplify the trait system (thus merging traits together, since they reduced the total number of traits). I would also find some choice questionable (reactive lenses is near useless in PvE). And some are just so generic that can see some use in any mode.

Meanwhile, just how many nerfs and changes we’ve got due to pvp during these years? Just take the last patch note, even counting out the splits, how many of those changes make any sense in PvE? None.

Since the start of the game, just how many skills have been nerfed to uselessness in PvE due to PvP, or were outright ignored because having useless skills means they don’t pose an hassle in their beloved PvP mode? How many nerfs have turrets got back then, due to pvp? When did gadgets ever become useful in PvE (the only one that did got nerfed to uselessness…and saw constant whining in PvP)? Did they ever do anything to make elixirs more useful in PvE (as in: making them actually useful in a group situation instead of the pitiful personal effects and the clunky tossed elixirs we’ve got, and no, they did nothing)? Where is our supposed versatility, if we must spend all our utility slots in kits just to have a dps comparable to other classes? Where is our elite spec mechanic that can actually be useful in PvE? When were we ever rewarded for having the most obnoxiously complex rotations of all the game? What do we offer in a party that others can’t already do better?
Was anything ever done to solve those issues?
No.
But let’s keep waiting, cause someday they’ll surely do something, right?
Oh, please.
PvE was, is and probably will keep being an afterthought as far as balance goes. Even with the balance splits, as we could see with these last patch notes.

time to stop saying pve engi has been ignored and post something of value.

Keep ignoring reality if you want to do so. Our situation hasn’t improved at all from the first year as far as PvE goes. Other classes get to be useful in parties, doing things others can’t do (while still dealing dps comparable to ours). We just fill the spots left, assuming there isn’t someone more useful. That’s our role in PvE.

oh so suddenly the reworks to firearms and explosives that we got when specs became a thing dont count as buffs even though they were buffs and gave us like 20% more damage and youre just gonna ignore them because… you want to?

get over it. you are wrong and you are whining and wallowing in some weird self pity for the class instead of coming up with useful buffs that are easy to implement and would make you want to play engi over another class.

you cant just choose to ignore every buff ever just so you can say engi gets no buffs in pve. look at last patch. fire bomb, pistol 2, and pistol 5 got duration increases. that is literally a buff to pve engi. look at the previous quarterly patch. pistol 3, 4, throw mine, and rocket kick were all buffed. those are buffs to condi, power, and just-messing-around pve builds. the quarterly patch in january had applied force, which you should be taking every time you take scrapper in pve no matter what because its really good.

are these buffs enough to make you do cartwheels of joy? no. but engi is slowly being built up, cuz it IS actually pretty bad in pve, not because it lacks dps or group support, but cuz those things come at the price of being immensely more concentration intensive and unreliable in the hands of anyone but the most skilled players while other classes push 1 button to turn the same thing on (or just attack cuz they get the thing thru traits). and that is an issue. you should be rewarded for playing harder.

but its entirely useless to come cry about it instead of say “hey, since were in the habit of slowly buffing condi engi, lets make poison shell base 5 sec duration instead of 2, because its not a useful skill the way it is”. and everyone will nod and smile, and if like 30 people do it, the dev assigned to engi will prolly be like “hey time to buff mortar 2” the same way hes been doing for the last 9 months with other random things.

Manuhell.2759:

insanemaniac.2456:

applied force.

That was created anew, though. And they did so because they moved down (and rebalanced) perfectly weighted. A trait that saw many pvp people complain about scrappers’ passive stability (even after its stability was reduced to a single stack due to making it adept, but still). But sure, that trait may also have been implemented to improve scrappers’ performance in PvE. Albeit it didn’t help much, as we can see.
Fair enough, one change over several years may have been implemented to improve pve (or at least had that side-effect). Guess everything is fine then.

dont be ridiculous.

• flamethrower auto buff
• juggernaut w/ mass momentum & applied force
• nade/mortar auto nerfs
• glass cannon
• rocket boots overhaul
• napalm specialist (pvp nerf and a pve sidegrade)
• heavy armor exploit & high caliber
• shaped charge
• skilled marksman
• pinpoint distribution
• reactive lenses
• streamlined kits

all of these traits and skills have been made or remade with pve as either the only consideration or a consideration equal to wvw or pvp, cuz they are all either used solely in pve (as primarily damage buffs) or widely used across multiple game modes (cuz they provide excellent utility).

time to stop saying pve engi has been ignored and post something of value.

yeah sure if you wanna turn engi into something that spams 11111111111 with the occasional nade barrage

Manuhell.2759:

insanemaniac.2456:

did you see the ele nerfs or do you only play engi?

I did see them. They’ve got anything to do with this matter, though. Engineer is still getting nerfed in PvE due to their pvp performance, even if something got splitted.
Unless you mean to say that skills like bulwark gyro or medic gyro were too strong in pve, or that bunker down was oh so useful for some fractal or raid. Or should i talk about turrets and how they’re still terrible, or how they didn’t care about making gadget a decent choice after they nerfed the only one that did see some use?
Let’s speak frankly, did you ever see some balancing that wasn’t somehow dictated by pvp (and yet applied to any mode)? Even slick shoes saw people whining for months in pvp about it, and like turrets ended up useless after they “rebalanced” it. Same for the traits. The old juggernaut, the old kit refinement, all changed only due to pvp. Did they ever do something to make the engineer a better choice in PvE? Should i remind you how the engineer was one of the less used classes in PvE and still sees few to no uses, especially in any harder content, mostly because it doesn’t offer anything that other classes can’t already do anyway, and yet nothing was ever done in this regard? And let’s not take the “versatility” excuse, because we aren’t versatile to begin with: we must spend all our utility slot just to deal damage. You know who’s versatile? Elementalists. And they do get used, unlike us. Even our only good point, condi dps, depends on enemies standing essentially still all the time (how else should napalm do all the hits otherwise). Nice for theorycrafting, not much in practice. But even that isn’t enough to be actually chosen. Not when other classes got banners, party buffs, pulsing boons…things only their class can do, and that they can easily bring while still dealing good damage. And we’ve got nothing like that. And even if we had skills like that, it would compete with kits, so we likely wouldn’t bring it anyway. That’s how the class work. Badly.
But nobody in the balance team cares about that. They never cared about PvE.
We’ve got some builds for pvp. It means we’re fine. No need to do anything. As usual.

applied force.

Manuhell.2759:

insanemaniac.2456:

hammer being op in pve matters a bit less.

And that alone says enough about how well they balance.
It isn’t particularly surprising that engineers (let alone scrappers) aren’t wanted for any serious PvE content, seeing that PvE always is an afterthought in their balancing passes.

did you see the ele nerfs or do you only play engi?

style.6173:

Razor.9872:

Its purpose is to negate damage. Both negating damage and dealing respectable damage at the same time was too much.

It is fine as-is now.

lol. Yes because everyone said hammer was too strong in PvE. Come on.

hammer being op in pve matters a bit less. you can run through most content without expecting to die, unlike pvp or wvw, so the defensive stuff hammer brings is just bonus when hammer also fills your rotation better than rifle and does similar dps. “too strong in pve” is more exclusively defined as “does too much dps”, something hammer doesnt particularly do. yet there it is, still making sure rifle sees very little play.

have you read threads in this sub for the last 6-9 months? hammer is clearly op. players acknowledge it and arent like no its not.

no, engi has always been particularly selfish about its boons. the class you are looking for is chrono.

yeah i got to diamond fast too because its easy when all the good players vacate the lower divisions and the few stragglers all get grouped together every game for free win streaks

aed has a fundamentally broken use case: you want wait until its risky to use it for it to be good. 0 other heal skills in the entire game are broken in this way, and for good reason. you should always want to use your heal skill, and waiting until you are at risk when there are interrupts and it has a long enough cast time is practically suicidal.

it was good when amr was bugged to be at 10 secs, cuz you could literally spam it, especially with the broken gadgeteer resets, and for a good minute you could safely hide behind the rebound effect before needing to disengage entirely.

in addition, the toolbelt is a 1 sec stun with a 3/4 cast time and some aftercast. single target. bad range. autoattack damage. terrible.

30 sec cd is better, but the skill needs more than cd reduction. and the toolbelt ought to at least be 1.5-2 sec and have like 240-300 range.

are nonelite specs viable again or are the nerfs to elites not enough yet

Rezzet.3614:

at least they buffed net shot so that shows us they do listen , and there might be hope someday

now think of something better to buff

David.5974:

They receive from us many suggestions, ideas and other interesting things how to try repair engi in game modes… but they only change some numbers(cd, dmg, number of conditions apply) this is not balance for what I wait half year. Biggest smile make me if they nerf rocket charge. 3x leap – 2x finisher… why they not remove 1 leap(much work..) I was defend anet balance team and think that they make their job pretty well, but after last 2 patches I am really dissapointed.

But still is better to play not-viable engi(raids for example) then boring temp

the only buff worth mentioning that was said on this forum in the last 3 months is net shot. everything else requires more than number tweaks. everything else requires new animations or new programming that doesnt currently exist, and anet isnt throwing dev resources to that stuff except for expansions when theyre already keeping themselves busy delivering 5 other major types of content in these quarterly updates.

pick reasonable, dev-efficient changes and get support for them and theyll prolly happen.

Illconceived Was Na.9781:

Q: Is there any way to add a WvW Infusion refunder for laurels since the new infusions slots now allow for any type of infusion, the defensive infusions are pretty useless now.

And the dev response:

A: No plans for that. Those infusions are still functional, even if they’re not meta, and refunding laurels is tricky because those can convert to gold.

lol whoever asked that is clearly uninformed. personally im going to be taking out all of my offensive wvw infusions and replacing them with defensive ones because -18% guard damage is kittening op when you wanna surprise someone who thinks the guards will get a kill. and for soloing tower/keep lords.

if you wanna make engi great again, post threads with intelligent discussion about what is too strong/weak, why it is so, and how one could fix the issue by changing a few numbers or removing some kind of effect. dont ask for new mechanics or complete overhauls. take what is already there and find a simple way to improve it. its likely to get done if its a really good idea.

i dont seem to recall having many good threads like that in the last 3 months (except the net shot thread), but i do recall having several threads like that in the previous 3 months. we directed/inspired the sustain nerfs in the last quarterly update, i think. and theyve taken ideas from this sub before. no one can claim credit or give credit, and frankly it doesnt matter as long as the class can be improved, but if we arent here making great threads then we prolly wont make engi great.

who cares if anet plays engi or not, so long as theyre able to design it and listen to the people who may have more insight into the class. theyve shown they can listen. make your voice heard.

recycled assets suggest to me that the art team was “too busy” for fractals (or something, i dont work at anet and know nothing obviously) which isnt a very good sign so hopefully its not falling on the art team to make fractals great again and anets encounter/map/mob design pulls off something awesome. ill wait and see.

this thread is hilarious thanks for the laugh op 5/7 would read again

Deniara Devious.3948:

insanemaniac.2456:

Deniara Devious.3948:

Now the big problem is that both pistol/pistol and hammer offer better DPS than rifle.

no they dont. they offer similar dps. hammer just can be used more often. p/p… similarly to rifle, you just use 3 & 4 on cd and switch away (like rifle 3 & 5).

I know the damage is very similar, but to my memory rifle lags tiny bit behind. Correct me if I am wrong but hammer has slightly higher DPS than rifle. If this is the case or the damage is almost equal, then why anybody would choose rifle?!

Roughly equal damage should NOT be the case, when rifle is very aggressive weapon with no reliable defense built in it.

hammer is slightly more. currently the main advantage to rifle is that it doesnt tie you to scrapper so you can take tools/inventions instead and get movement speed without sacrificing explosives/firearms. the main advantage to hammer is that it has more to do, so in those times where a fight lasts long enough to run through all your cds with rifle/kits and have to resort to autos, a hammer can better fill a rotation with higher dps things. but grenade auto is pretty strong already, so replacing those autos by spamming 2s on hammer/bomb/nade/ft gets marginally more dps.

overall its only gonna matter if youre skilled enough to make it matter, and even at my personal peak play i doubt im good enough to make it matter. but thats just me.

however, hammer also brings defensive things while putting out the sameish dps, so its clearly superior (especially outside of pve). unless you cant live without movement speed and maximum deepz. sometimes i cant. i like swiftness.

Deniara Devious.3948:

Now the big problem is that both pistol/pistol and hammer offer better DPS than rifle.

no they dont. they offer similar dps. hammer just can be used more often. p/p… similarly to rifle, you just use 3 & 4 on cd and switch away (like rifle 3 & 5).

why not suggest they remove some blocks, evades, and reflections instead of making rifle unblockable. they are the culprits.

any norn can solo 0 rod heat room:

• pop become the bear
• double dodge in
• hold down the charge attack
• dodge the next time you can

dont exit bear form, it has extra hp and you go especially slow in 84 cuz of the endurance instability, but you have enough hp to make it to safety.

use a condi cleanse to hit both consoles at the end.

i believe any class can solo the room without bear form, but its often harder / less reliable and requires more than just the use of your elite for the 4 min cd. you can look it up on youtube. but it may be easier to just make a norn of the class you want to use in fractals, and just use that as your fractal toon.

for south room, ive found that in general people know how to get to the 2nd button. only about 25-50% of groups will have someone who makes a beeline for the 1st button, and even fewer know that its a simple matter for the person at the 1st button to get to the 3rd buttons once the 2nd button has a person at it. if you want your fractals to go smoothly, learn to methodically get to the 1st button. here are a couple things you can do:

• pick up a shield to start, then dodge/walk to the mistlock. drop your shield there and (range) aggro golems to you and kill them so they dont pew pew you while you run to the 1st button.
• once youve killed the 2-3 that run past the path, heal up and make sure you have 2 dodges ready before running. grab the shield.
• the next “safe” spot is by the button itself, and you have just enough time at the highest levels to double dodge the zappy shots and then channel your shield while you run with swiftness/movement signet/trait. theres another 1-2 golems to fight by the button, so prepare mitigation or projectile hate. stability is good too.
• the 3rd button is just around the corner. same idea. recharge endurance, run with shield. you should only need 1 or the other to make it from 1st to 3rd. just make sure someone makes it to the 2nd button before you leave the 1st. even terrible people can make it to the 2nd button, so dont worry about it.

once you can reliably make the south room run and solo the heat room, you dont need to worry about making it to the anomaly. youll get there. unless some baddie keeps hitting the ooze shield. but killing the anomaly is boring and can be highly dependent on your group not being terrible.

BrotherBelial.3094:

SaskiaElite.8132:

Last time I played this game, farming in game currency (which is gold,silver and copper) was a pain in the neck, my question is: its still same? I’d also like to know if there’s any new solo/story content? there was literally nothing to do as end game content, except endless pvp

When was it hard to “farm” gold? I farm most of my gold from PvP. I’ve made 50 gold this week from playing mostly PvP, and doing the Bandit daily.

lol i made 50g last night in 30 mins in a gerent + octovine multiloot

Rashy.4165:

There’s no “conflation” going on here.

The GW2 playerbase is the entire population of players. The reddit userbase is a sample. These are standard statistical terms.

While the sample doesn’t necessarily and accurately represent the entire population (due to bias – again, another statistical term), it’s the closest approximation we’ll get to the actual numbers (only ArenaNets metrics will reveal actual numbers for the entire population of players).

The only way we’ll know actual numbers is if the survey was sent to every player upon login and completed in game, with the numbers revealed publicly. That is about as close as it gets to a census (since you can’t guarantee every active player will complete an in-game survey). The other option would be for ArenaNet to flat out reveal the numbers.

yeah, and the reddit bias is that people on reddit care more about the game in general than the entire playerbase (which means that you will be more likely to run into people interested in raids than you would if you are sampling from the general playerbase). thats not a statement i can quantify, but its extremely likely to be true to some extent because it is simply logical. raiding is the “hard” content that requires extensive game knowledge to complete successfully. people not interested in or heavily invested in the game will be less likely to want to raid, and those are the people more likely to be missing from reddit.

Sykper.6583:

insanemaniac.2456:

Sykper.6583:

insanemaniac.2456:

Sykper.6583:

The intent of the survey was that /r/guildwars2 might be the only people that vote, but anyone and their mother who visited the site with some knowledge of the subject matter could vote. This survey could have easily been done on any medium like the official forums here that has the target audience being GW2 players, /r/guildwars2 is a better alternative as there’s less requirements to participate and it is an external site.

I can’t stop you from disagreeing with me, but I will stop ignorance spreading.

way to contradict your own argument bro. here you go saying the reddit audience is the reddit audience and not the general gw2 playerbase.

I don’t know how you gleamed that from my message. So I shortened my quote to assist your reading comprehension issues to where I believe you are making the argument. If you want to promote a survey on a game with multiple different sites dedicated to it, you choose one of the most visited. However as I said there’s no way to filter out who participates. Normally that would be a standard survey practice, but the parameter that as long as you visit the GW2 reddit, you potentially have a say in the discussion and are likely a part of the general gw2 playerbase. There’s zero chance you can go on a sub vs no sub basis here, like you claim.

Now, if you are done with your retorts that seem to only react when I make an argument, maybe you can try some critical thinking skills and create an actual counter-argument other than ‘No you are wrong’.

Otherwise, I wish to get back to the task at hand for LI discussion.

it isnt worth my time to write pages upon pages about how wrong you are and how you contradict yourself. you have a problem. you have a disconnect between understanding standard survey practices and understanding that the gw2 playerbase is not the reddit userbase and that you cannot call one base to be the other. you understand one of these and dont understand the other. and for some reason you keep writing things that show you have some kind of understanding but still refuse to apply it. it reminds me very strongly of other real world arguments with zealots. its silly.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ad_hominem

no, it isn’t ad hominem when you keep conflating the gw2 playerbase and the reddit userbase and I refuse to expound on why it’s wrong to do so especially when you yourself realize that the process of doing so is outside of standard surveying techniques but refuse to apply that understanding to the situation at hand.

ad hominem is if i call you stupid for saying it, and im not doing that.

Sykper.6583:

insanemaniac.2456:

Sykper.6583:

The intent of the survey was that /r/guildwars2 might be the only people that vote, but anyone and their mother who visited the site with some knowledge of the subject matter could vote. This survey could have easily been done on any medium like the official forums here that has the target audience being GW2 players, /r/guildwars2 is a better alternative as there’s less requirements to participate and it is an external site.

I can’t stop you from disagreeing with me, but I will stop ignorance spreading.

way to contradict your own argument bro. here you go saying the reddit audience is the reddit audience and not the general gw2 playerbase.

I don’t know how you gleamed that from my message. So I shortened my quote to assist your reading comprehension issues to where I believe you are making the argument. If you want to promote a survey on a game with multiple different sites dedicated to it, you choose one of the most visited. However as I said there’s no way to filter out who participates. Normally that would be a standard survey practice, but the parameter that as long as you visit the GW2 reddit, you potentially have a say in the discussion and are likely a part of the general gw2 playerbase. There’s zero chance you can go on a sub vs no sub basis here, like you claim.

Now, if you are done with your retorts that seem to only react when I make an argument, maybe you can try some critical thinking skills and create an actual counter-argument other than ‘No you are wrong’.

Otherwise, I wish to get back to the task at hand for LI discussion.

it isnt worth my time to write pages upon pages about how wrong you are and how you contradict yourself. you have a problem. you have a disconnect between understanding standard survey practices and understanding that the gw2 playerbase is not the reddit userbase and that you cannot call one base to be the other. you understand one of these and dont understand the other. and for some reason you keep writing things that show you have some kind of understanding but still refuse to apply it. it reminds me very strongly of other real world arguments with zealots. its silly.

Sykper.6583:

And your claim that ‘Every single poll / survey carries a disclaimer’ is not true at all, there’s no need for that when the survey is simply posted on reddit, it speaks for itself. What that also means is that non-subs who see the survey on the reddit if they were curious enough to visit the site can also vote, as I said before. The intent of the survey was that /r/guildwars2 might be the only people that vote, but anyone and their mother who visited the site with some knowledge of the subject matter could vote. This survey could have easily been done on any medium like the official forums here that has the target audience being GW2 players, /r/guildwars2 is a better alternative as there’s less requirements to participate and it is an external site.

I can’t stop you from disagreeing with me, but I will stop ignorance spreading.

way to contradict your own argument bro. here you go saying the reddit audience is the reddit audience and not the general gw2 playerbase.

Sykper.6583:

insanemaniac.2456:

Sykper.6583:

insanemaniac.2456:

Sykper.6583:

insanemaniac.2456:

Sykper.6583:

insanemaniac.2456:

Sykper.6583:

Hey all,

Can we stop with this 5% bogus nonsense? It’s definitely much higher than that. Indications from the frequent reddit polls that come up suggest that about 20% have tried and liked Raids, but there’s a large percent (around 45%) would like to at least get into them. I believe everyone knows the reddit poll I am referring to, and I think it’s a decent indicator of interest in raids in general.

Thanks!

lol 20-45%.

yeah not even 1/2 of the playerbase cares enough to look at reddit. and most of the people who dont are casuals who are prolly not interested in raids, meaning any survey of redditors will be heavily skewed towards showing extra interest in raids.

You cannot back up this claim. Furthermore when I am looking at the data I am not thinking ‘Well shoot, this game only has around 4000 people playing’ rather instead we can choose that as a decent sample size for the GW2 population. There’s a possibility the reddit community has a bias for raids, and a same possibility that they might have no interest in raids (This was one of the answers polled, it was about 40% had no interest in raiding whatsoever).

However, given all that’s been said relevant to GW2 raiding from the devs who admitted seeing higher than anticipated raid participation, the near constant stream of LFM/LFGs for Raiding akin to the old days of Dungeoneering, the praise/hate for raids in general…the thought that only 5% of the population has a constant interest or would repeat the content becomes less and less likely.

That 5% value actually came from someone introducing WoW’s Raid Statistics too, which makes it even more questionable.

i can back up that claim. look at the subs to /r/guildwars2. then look at how many copies of HoT sold. theres an order of magnitude of difference and it will give you a ballpark that clearly shows my statement is not wrong.

The only issue with your statement here is that reddit doesn’t restrict subreddits from being viewable unless you are subbed. I am not subbed to /r/guildwars2 or any subreddit yet I am able to participate in polls/surveys as well as read the comments.

Sub count is not a statistic you can use to verify how many players look at reddit, you can only get a gauge on how many players feel the need to have a forum to discuss GW2 on that’s not these official forums.

the game is free to play and does not require purchasing HoT to play, just as the reddit is free to read and does not require subbing. the qualifications are comparable.

Your original statement again was suggesting that not even half of players read the GW2 subreddit, to counter my argument referring to the statistical charts and polls made by the public reddit posts that both subs and non-subs can participate in.

You only pointed out sub-count on that subreddit (of which you even admit is not required to read) versus the number of actual copies of HoT sold (you admit earlier you do not have the approximation rather we can go by the NCSoft profits) as some factor which describes how a majority of players do not read or care about the subreddit, which again to repeat does not need subs to be able to participate in its content like polls and surveys.

Do you understand what I am saying here? The survey with a few thousand sample sized players, that was a general survey of the playerbase, not of /r/guildwars2.

yes i understand what you are saying. you are wrong. it is a survey of reddit, not of the general playerbase.

We will agree to disagree then. I’ve already laid out my arguments why it’s not a survey of reddit, and since you understand where I come from and disagree, this line of discussion is at a close.

yeah ok. sure. every survey done on reddit has a disclaimer that is some form of “well, this is targeted at gw2/mmo/______ players, but im only posting this on reddit so take that as you will” which is a pretty obvious nod to the fact that the reddit userbase is not the gw2 playerbase. ask literally any surveyor. so yeah, feel free to disagree and continue being obstinate in the face of standard survey practices (“know your audience”). i cant stop you.

buff other classes to match scrapper when every elite spec is already op. lets do it!

Sykper.6583:

insanemaniac.2456:

Sykper.6583:

insanemaniac.2456:

Sykper.6583:

insanemaniac.2456:

Sykper.6583:

Hey all,

Can we stop with this 5% bogus nonsense? It’s definitely much higher than that. Indications from the frequent reddit polls that come up suggest that about 20% have tried and liked Raids, but there’s a large percent (around 45%) would like to at least get into them. I believe everyone knows the reddit poll I am referring to, and I think it’s a decent indicator of interest in raids in general.

Thanks!

lol 20-45%.

yeah not even 1/2 of the playerbase cares enough to look at reddit. and most of the people who dont are casuals who are prolly not interested in raids, meaning any survey of redditors will be heavily skewed towards showing extra interest in raids.

You cannot back up this claim. Furthermore when I am looking at the data I am not thinking ‘Well shoot, this game only has around 4000 people playing’ rather instead we can choose that as a decent sample size for the GW2 population. There’s a possibility the reddit community has a bias for raids, and a same possibility that they might have no interest in raids (This was one of the answers polled, it was about 40% had no interest in raiding whatsoever).

However, given all that’s been said relevant to GW2 raiding from the devs who admitted seeing higher than anticipated raid participation, the near constant stream of LFM/LFGs for Raiding akin to the old days of Dungeoneering, the praise/hate for raids in general…the thought that only 5% of the population has a constant interest or would repeat the content becomes less and less likely.

That 5% value actually came from someone introducing WoW’s Raid Statistics too, which makes it even more questionable.

i can back up that claim. look at the subs to /r/guildwars2. then look at how many copies of HoT sold. theres an order of magnitude of difference and it will give you a ballpark that clearly shows my statement is not wrong.

The only issue with your statement here is that reddit doesn’t restrict subreddits from being viewable unless you are subbed. I am not subbed to /r/guildwars2 or any subreddit yet I am able to participate in polls/surveys as well as read the comments.

Sub count is not a statistic you can use to verify how many players look at reddit, you can only get a gauge on how many players feel the need to have a forum to discuss GW2 on that’s not these official forums.

the game is free to play and does not require purchasing HoT to play, just as the reddit is free to read and does not require subbing. the qualifications are comparable.

Your original statement again was suggesting that not even half of players read the GW2 subreddit, to counter my argument referring to the statistical charts and polls made by the public reddit posts that both subs and non-subs can participate in.

You only pointed out sub-count on that subreddit (of which you even admit is not required to read) versus the number of actual copies of HoT sold (you admit earlier you do not have the approximation rather we can go by the NCSoft profits) as some factor which describes how a majority of players do not read or care about the subreddit, which again to repeat does not need subs to be able to participate in its content like polls and surveys.

Do you understand what I am saying here? The survey with a few thousand sample sized players, that was a general survey of the playerbase, not of /r/guildwars2.

yes i understand what you are saying. you are wrong. it is a survey of reddit, not of the general playerbase. reddit users are more invested in the game and will be more likely to seek out hard content. if they cared less about the game, they wouldnt visit reddit, like the majority of people.

Sykper.6583:

insanemaniac.2456:

Sykper.6583:

insanemaniac.2456:

Sykper.6583:

Hey all,

Can we stop with this 5% bogus nonsense? It’s definitely much higher than that. Indications from the frequent reddit polls that come up suggest that about 20% have tried and liked Raids, but there’s a large percent (around 45%) would like to at least get into them. I believe everyone knows the reddit poll I am referring to, and I think it’s a decent indicator of interest in raids in general.

Thanks!

lol 20-45%.

yeah not even 1/2 of the playerbase cares enough to look at reddit. and most of the people who dont are casuals who are prolly not interested in raids, meaning any survey of redditors will be heavily skewed towards showing extra interest in raids.

You cannot back up this claim. Furthermore when I am looking at the data I am not thinking ‘Well shoot, this game only has around 4000 people playing’ rather instead we can choose that as a decent sample size for the GW2 population. There’s a possibility the reddit community has a bias for raids, and a same possibility that they might have no interest in raids (This was one of the answers polled, it was about 40% had no interest in raiding whatsoever).

However, given all that’s been said relevant to GW2 raiding from the devs who admitted seeing higher than anticipated raid participation, the near constant stream of LFM/LFGs for Raiding akin to the old days of Dungeoneering, the praise/hate for raids in general…the thought that only 5% of the population has a constant interest or would repeat the content becomes less and less likely.

That 5% value actually came from someone introducing WoW’s Raid Statistics too, which makes it even more questionable.

i can back up that claim. look at the subs to /r/guildwars2. then look at how many copies of HoT sold. theres an order of magnitude of difference and it will give you a ballpark that clearly shows my statement is not wrong.

The only issue with your statement here is that reddit doesn’t restrict subreddits from being viewable unless you are subbed. I am not subbed to /r/guildwars2 or any subreddit yet I am able to participate in polls/surveys as well as read the comments.

Sub count is not a statistic you can use to verify how many players look at reddit, you can only get a gauge on how many players feel the need to have a forum to discuss GW2 on that’s not these official forums.

the game is free to play and does not require purchasing HoT to play, just as the reddit is free to read and does not require subbing. the qualifications are comparable.

TheRandomGuy.7246:

insanemaniac.2456:

TheRandomGuy.7246:

insanemaniac.2456:

then look at how many copies of HoT sold

Link?

i dont have one but it can be derived from the earnings spike from ncsofts report for the relevant time period and is somewhere around several million. check reddit, theres always a thread on earnings there.

Sub has ~129k people.
By doing some “math” and assuming a lot of stuff like gem store sales not increasing with the release and that everyone bought cheapest version of HoT I ended up with ~ 281k – ~300k copies sold.
That’s really not that big of a difference.

thought it was more like 2-4 million.

TheRandomGuy.7246:

insanemaniac.2456:

then look at how many copies of HoT sold

Link?

i dont have one but it can be derived from the earnings spike from ncsofts report for the relevant time period and is somewhere around several million. check reddit, theres always a thread on earnings there.

Sykper.6583:

insanemaniac.2456:

Sykper.6583:

Hey all,

Can we stop with this 5% bogus nonsense? It’s definitely much higher than that. Indications from the frequent reddit polls that come up suggest that about 20% have tried and liked Raids, but there’s a large percent (around 45%) would like to at least get into them. I believe everyone knows the reddit poll I am referring to, and I think it’s a decent indicator of interest in raids in general.

Thanks!

lol 20-45%.

yeah not even 1/2 of the playerbase cares enough to look at reddit. and most of the people who dont are casuals who are prolly not interested in raids, meaning any survey of redditors will be heavily skewed towards showing extra interest in raids.

You cannot back up this claim. Furthermore when I am looking at the data I am not thinking ‘Well shoot, this game only has around 4000 people playing’ rather instead we can choose that as a decent sample size for the GW2 population. There’s a possibility the reddit community has a bias for raids, and a same possibility that they might have no interest in raids (This was one of the answers polled, it was about 40% had no interest in raiding whatsoever).

However, given all that’s been said relevant to GW2 raiding from the devs who admitted seeing higher than anticipated raid participation, the near constant stream of LFM/LFGs for Raiding akin to the old days of Dungeoneering, the praise/hate for raids in general…the thought that only 5% of the population has a constant interest or would repeat the content becomes less and less likely.

That 5% value actually came from someone introducing WoW’s Raid Statistics too, which makes it even more questionable.

i can back up that claim. look at the subs to /r/guildwars2. then look at how many copies of HoT sold. theres an order of magnitude of difference and it will give you a ballpark that clearly shows my statement is not wrong.

Sykper.6583:

Hey all,

Can we stop with this 5% bogus nonsense? It’s definitely much higher than that. Indications from the frequent reddit polls that come up suggest that about 20% have tried and liked Raids, but there’s a large percent (around 45%) would like to at least get into them. I believe everyone knows the reddit poll I am referring to, and I think it’s a decent indicator of interest in raids in general.

Thanks!

lol 20-45%.

yeah not even 1/2 of the playerbase cares enough to look at reddit. and most of the people who dont are casuals who are prolly not interested in raids, meaning any survey of redditors will be heavily skewed towards showing extra interest in raids.

Malediktus.9250:

insanemaniac.2456:

Malediktus.9250:

I think it should be 100 LI per piece (so 600 per set) to make having a full legendary armor set truly prestigious and a rare sight.

it wouldnt be more prestigious than if it required 10 per piece. either you can do the raids or you cant, the perception of any kind of prestige here is very binary.

we only had to beat liadri once, yet “the blazing light” (or the mini) was probably the single most prestigious visible thing in the game up until the 2nd release of the pavilion.

The title “the blazing light” was part of the 2nd release of the queens gauntlet, not available in first release. And it was easy to cheese with retaliation/life leeching if I recall right. The title should have been for the harder 8 orbs achievement if you ask me.

ok, the mini then. my point stands. my memory isnt perfect.

Malediktus.9250:

I think it should be 100 LI per piece (so 600 per set) to make having a full legendary armor set truly prestigious and a rare sight.

it wouldnt be more prestigious than if it required 10 per piece. either you can do the raids or you cant, the perception of any kind of prestige here is very binary.

we only had to beat liadri once, yet “the blazing light” (or the mini) was probably the single most prestigious visible thing in the game up until the 2nd release of the pavilion.

TexZero.7910:

insanemaniac.2456:

TexZero.7910:

eldrin.6471:

letting us buy insights with margonite shards at a rate of 100 shards for 1 insight and letting those with extra insights use them to buy margonite shards could help both sides in this.

This would only actively promote fail state farming till you’re shard capped for the week.

We don’t need the game to promote that.

how is that not already promoted. raids are the only way to obtain a bunch of stat combos that are strictly better than their core analogues. if i could have 20k shards right now this instant, i would easily be able to spend them all on new gear for 10+ different toons. there is no reason i shouldnt be fail state farming (unless im able to complete encounters for more shards/hour).

the fact that some people are saying they have nothing to buy with their shards currently is something i find entirely ridiculous.

and for the record, im not in favor of adding a shard<->LI conversion.

You answered your own question you can caps shards just by completing the events and boss fights.

As is you’re not rewarded for fail state farming.

sure you are. you can get exclusive ascended gear.

TexZero.7910:

eldrin.6471:

letting us buy insights with margonite shards at a rate of 100 shards for 1 insight and letting those with extra insights use them to buy margonite shards could help both sides in this.

This would only actively promote fail state farming till you’re shard capped for the week.

We don’t need the game to promote that.

how is that not already promoted. raids are the only way to obtain a bunch of stat combos that are strictly better than their core analogues. if i could have 20k shards right now this instant, i would easily be able to spend them all on new gear for 10+ different toons. there is no reason i shouldnt be fail state farming (unless im able to complete encounters for more shards/hour).

the fact that some people are saying they have nothing to buy with their shards currently is something i find entirely ridiculous.

and for the record, im not in favor of adding a shard<->LI conversion.

Shovel Face.4512:

Lol where my haters at? Keep posting. I genuinely find this hilarious. This thread is pure gold. You guys all seemed to of had their feelings hurt with my post. LMAO.

theyre laughing at you and you think their feelings are hurt? what a very odd thing to say. ;/