Guild Wars 2

I’d roll a thief if I were you.

@Freedan: good point about Portal being a combat skill. But after the nerf with the ridiculous CD of 90s, it’s quite clunky to use. I saw Osicat’s videos and that’s one great example of how portal is skillfully used in combat.

Thanks Crossplay. I stand corrected.

Hi trooper,

I see nothing wrong in your approach to suit your playstyle based on my original build. Glad even that my build provides that flexibility for you to tweak around with it.
As you describe, your build is hybrid because it pumps out DPS from both direct attacks and conditions. So the tricky thing here is get a nice balance of stats to boost both two sources of damage AND utilize both of them during fight.

I’m not a very skilled player and as the fight gets harder and harder, i tend to focus more about defensive maneuvers and play defensively. Condition dmg works best for me since it’s sustained meaning even if i stop attacking, enemies still eat damage from existing conditions.
I used to play shatter and sometimes i forgot to press F1 when Mind Wrack off CD and i had all 3 illusions o_O.

Anyway, balanced stats is my key message.
I think 2.5k armor is good enough, more than that and you start sacrificing too much of offensive stats.
I usually go for 40-ish crit chance and it works well for me because i use on-crit sigils (and to stack bleeds). But if i don’t i can get away easily with crit chance being as low as 30%. So maybe 50-ish is a bit much?
I go full condition, so my minimum is 1,3k condition dmg and i’m gearing up for as high as 1,7k. But as you split 50-50 with power, maybe 900-1000 condition dmg should be viable.
Again, play around with it and see what works.

Totally agree that iDuelist and Blurred Frenzy are great burst. Even when I have very low power stat, the dmg is still impressive, especially iDuelist with raw dmg and the stacked bleed dmg comes right after.

Some comments about the use of scepter. Now scepter’s autoattack is slow because it takes into account the travel time of projectiles. Use it as a melee weapon and it gets just as fast as sword’s autoattack. Also, in melee range, with the clone spawned right next to you, you have better chance to confuse your opponent.

Have fun experimenting and enjoy the build

Crossplay.2067:

I really shouldn’t add to this discussion but I’m bored and there is a lot of ignorance about portal that needs to be cleared. There are a LOT of restrictions on this skill, which is why I find it ludicrous to ask for more.

-snip-

Crossplay, may I add to your lists 2 more restrictions that I learned about the hard way.

8. Portals cannot be used underwater.
There was this time I activated the entrance portal just to look down and see there wasn’t a tiny bit of land that my friends to swim to so i could jump down and create the exit to port them up

9. The first (entrance) portal expires (and the skill goes on CD) if the mesmer dies before they make the second (exit) one.
There were occasions as I rushed to my friends’ position, misjudged the height and jumped to my death, even if I got ressed in 1 second after, there’s no use creating the exit portal end.

Seriously, people who are against portals, try playing a mesmer than you’ll see that sometimes, figuring out where to put portals could be a bit of puzzle itself.

I see this as a way Anet thank players for spending that much time playing the game. So no drama for me. I still do stuff as I normally do and achievements/skins/whatever pop up once in a while.
Nevertheless, I do share the joy with the community and welcome this new system.

Does this thread have a /sarcasm tag?

Thanks Chaos for doing this.
Sticky request so this gem of a thread won’t get lost.

Glad to see that this good post didnt degrade into some sort of verbal attack of 2 sides (aka sword vs scepter)
@Revelations: can you rename the thread title to something looks less biased like Comparison betwen Sword and Scepter? A lot of good thoughts about both weapons here.

I think that would be more useful for new Mesmers to make well-informed decision on which one to pick to suit their playstyle.

My comparison of the two weapons goes all the way back to the way they were designed and their natures. I’m not comparing numbers or stats here as the seniors are more knowledgeable in this area.

Sword: i think the nature of sword or the way it was designed is to intimidate. Let’s think about it and it makes total sense to why power/shatter builds align so well with this weapon.
– Overwhelming power: both in terms of damage output and visual animation
– Active defense: Blurred Frenzy
– Aggressive utility: rip boons, immobilize, cripple, gap closer.
– Melee and fast and furious attack rate: you get up close and personal, and deliver the deadly blow.

This means people with aggressive playstyle will absolutely love this beast.

Scepter: on the other hand, it’s more about subtlety and trickery. It’s more about baiting enemies into a condition where you gain the upper advantage without they realising it until it’s too late. Hence, its a ‘condition’ weapon or as in OP’s words – a set-up weapon.
- Slow and not so overwhelming attack: so the enemy doesn’t get scared off and run away at first sight. Ranged weapon: hit-and-run tactic, kiting, baiting.
- Produce clone to trick and confuse
- More passive defense through block and emphasize counterplay
- Reactive conditions: conditions hurt but not so much that tough enemies still think they can shake them off and thus more likely to risk the consequences.

This very different nature of scepter will certainly intrigue people of a different taste to those using swords. Scepter wielder punishes enemies for reckless actions while tricking the enemies into thinking they would prevail while the conditions clearly showing the opposite result.

Intimidation and Trickery are key aspects that our mesmer class is built upon and
they are both equally intriguing. We gang up on while at the same time, confuse enemy with all these illusions we have at our disposal. And I think we all agree this makes the class so much fun to play.

That’s why I have so much fun playing this profession

So that’s my comparison. What do you think, guys? Does it make sense?

Carighan.6758:

…People are.

Very well said. In game or in real life, there are always people like that, you just have to put up with them. Upon reading your last post, i do feel for you, OP. But you aim at the wrong solution. I cant speak about the right solution, all i can help to improve the situation is to persuade other mesmers in game to shy away from such abuse of Portal. Nevertheless, the skill itself is not to blame.

sephire.7296:

Comparatively with the addition of torment you block a direct attack and you apply an immediate counter offensive. Your description of “High dmg” is build specific toward power along with my description of an immediate counter offensive with the right build catered to condition dmg.

-snip-

I can confirm this. There is indeed a ~0.5s window. But i suppose it’s such a small window that if a skilled player can utilize it, they deserve to get away with it. This is where skillplay and timing matter a lot for both attacker and defender.

I see there are 3 scenarios here:
- iCounter too soon and the opponent will not attack you at all. —> no benefit
- iCounter still too soon (expect an attack will hit during the later second of channel time) and the opponent, while attacking you, can see the block coming up and evade it in time.
- iCounter just at the right time (expect an attack will hit during the first second of the channel time) so that the opponent doesn’t see you blocking at all until the attack actually connects. To me, 0.5s is too short for a human reaction if you don’t expect a block in advance.

bobross.5034:

-enjoy your scepter while you can…after that last SOAC gaming podcast, Kylia is going to get it nerfed :p.

You can nerf the Scepter even more??? o_O
:P /sarcasm

@OP and others who would like Portal get nerfed:
This is just as bad as a thief stealth-revives teammates when they go down in dungeons only to find out people whine on forum that thieves provide little to none group support in dungeons.

You look at the matter as if everything in the game is about competitive play. Well, it’s not. GW2 is the best MMO in my opinion because the developers went to great lengths to provide us a good balance between cooperative and competitive gameplay experience.

In PvE and WvW, everything (game mechanic, quest structure, skills, etc.) is designed to encourage teamwork, and the skill Portal just happens to be a perfect example that we mesmers are gifted with.

As a mesmer, I love to help people in need and when I decide to do that, I take on the responsibility to try my best so that I can get ahead to make ports since i don’t want to let the team down. After all, i’m just an average player that keeps making a lot of silly mistakes in jumping puzzles but certainly I don’t expect to get bashed in the face when I try my best and help out other people.

For the people are not involved like you, it might look cheap and trivial. But for the porter and ported, this is a big deal. It is teamwork, interdependence, engaging experience that results in long-lasting friendship between players (who might be complete strangers to one another at start).

So here’s my suggestion: if you main a different class and refuse to roll a mesmer and enjoy helping out people. I suggest taking it to Anet to make similar transport skill for your own class. I even have some ideas for you:
- how about Engi constructs a mechanical helicopter that flies you (and your friends) up to the very top end of the jumping puzzle.
- how about Ele with a cloud-bridge that allows you (and your friends) walk to the chest.
- thief’s steal/shadowstep skill with range scaled with the value of chest’s contents? say 1g on TP = range: 10,000?
- ranger with grapple gun?
- necro’s zombie pillars that provides solid footing for you to jump and even catch you when u fall.
- warrior grows wings on head, back, hands, and feet to elegantly fly to the chest?
- guardian’s Symbol of Hope: whoever falls to the ground covered with this symbol has 10% chance to take no falling damage and teleport to the chest’s location.

Ok rant’s over. I am normally a very polite and peaceful person but this kind of post really pushes my tolerance.

mikelevins,

I totally agree with you that in siege battles, staff and focus are valuable weapon choices from my own experience in WvW.

Without a staff, i find myself useless in siege defense if I’m not manning a siege weapon because the range and AoE attacks staff offers that no other weapon has. For example, drop a Chaos Storm down on the enemy zerg crowding in front the gate while I stand up on the keep wall.

Also agree that focus is amazing in big group fights, the pull is extremely effective (although I’m still adapting to the 1s before ItV can be used) and iWarden always makes iDuelist jealous in bringing down gates because of the more superior damage against stationary targets.

I usually roam solo or in small group with 2-3 people thus the need for pistol as off-hand. iDuelist is just so effective in keeping the pressure on a single target. Rarely that I need to summon the 2nd iDuelist before the target does down or runs away. It is also my trusted friend when I go up against Thief or enemy Mesmer (although i must admit i usually get jumped and killed fast by skilled sneaky thieves)
Even when fighting with zerg, I still have my pistol on me since the Commander targets, and I just single-mindedly attack that target while the AoE clone deaths (hopefully) inflict damage and conditions on the rest.

These days I always carry 2 swords, staff, and focus in my inventory with scepter and pistol are my default equipped set so I can switch easily when necessary.

Also, lately I’ve made a big change in runeset that is quite questionable and I’d appreciate comments on this:
6x Centaur Runes
My logic for this change:
- ooc speed is still an unresolved problem even with off-hand Focus as I tend to reserve the skill to use in combat.
- this runeset + Mirror = almost 100% uptime swiftness
- +15% bleeding duration is a nice touch
- extra power for a condition build? i just hope that extra power adds dmg to all attacks but it is for sure not the reason for the change.

Interesting build, the build to me has the best of both worlds for a condition build: stealth and scepter (both got buffed in the latest patch).
Will try it out soon, thanks for sharing.

@Bumbler: in that case, my apologies for being a bit defensive. By all means, try it out if you’re interested, I used to run shatter build too and I can assure you condition builds like mine have quite a different and refreshing flavour to them compared to shatter builds.

In case u haven’t known already, u can check to see if u out of range by looking at the skill icon, if theres a red line underneath then u r out of range. Same goes for any other skill.

It sure sounds like a bug. Never happened to me unless I’m out of range. But mind you the skill has been modified in the latest patch so there could be some hidden issues with it.

@bobross: I’ve been trying out the combination Scepter + Sword since I need to practice timing of the block (1 block on each weapon) against enemy burst skills. It works surprisingly good. Thanks for the tip.
Also, I switch out Ether Feast for Mirror for the awesome reflect. I don’t mind the smaller health since I find most of the time, the illusions are the ones that get beat up not me. This build gets even more interesting now since it has the counterstrike theme embedded in.

@Bumbler: I solo champs with this build. I recently switch from Ether Feast to Mirror for the nice reflect, the smaller heal doesn’t matter me much since the illusions are the ones that get beat up not me. Can you be more specific about ‘other utility needs’?
Just want to be clear here.

1) If you want further explanation, here’s my sincere reply:
- condition is not lackluster in PvE. Confusion is, it’s only one type of conditions. And this build does not rely on Confusion for main DPS. It’s there just for some nice bonus.
- this is a condition/crowd control build, you don’t have great burst DPS. So what you bring to a group then :
+ Permanently slow and even lock down mobs
+ Distract mobs with your clones (100% uptime)
+ Wear down mobs over time with your own conditions + conditions from illusions’ deaths.
- as for other utilities, you can always swap out any of the 3 default utility skills for a specific skill when the situations demand, be it Null Field, Portal, Veil, etc.) the build still works fine. Utility slot skills are very flexible for this build, and for Mesmers in general.

I hope that answers your questions in a satisfying manner.

2) If you’re setting us up for an argument:
Then please disregard my post since we will not waste each other’s time here and I promise will not post in the thread again.

Nevertheless, I see that you already have your pick. Enjoy and have fun in the game.

@Zelotes: glad that you like the build. Just a quick comment: you can use Staff but out-of-combat speed will be a big issue and you might need your friends for speed buff to travel fast.

Nretep.2564:

@keenlam
your build is definitely not a non-shatter.

Fixed it for you. Check out the discussion thread to understand why.

@bobross, Pyroatheist: thank you for your clarification about CDs for sigils and runes.

@Pyroatheist: appreciate your feedback but i think you’re missing the point here since Scepter IS the foundation of this build.

Dodge rolling + vigor procs might produce clones faster but it makes a bad habit of dodging just to create clone out of it. This is critical since positioning is key and you simply cannot afford such a mistake when kiting. Scepter #1 is simply fire and forget, I just need to watch out for Retaliation.

Damage-wise, there’s no arguing that Staff is more superior but I lose out on the pistol which critically complements this setup. The idea is to kill your clones (not phantasms) as fast as you can, not the other way around. This is because unlike staff clones, scepter clones don’t apply conditions while they’re alive. Luckily, your foes help you out a lot and the ones i’ve been going up against did such a marvellous job at killing my clones.

In general, you’re talking about a completely different build which i’m keen to have a look at.

This is what I’m gunning for: http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fgEQRAra8dlwzKq3UzgGbNJipCBHaGXX1RqQpVmBudhA-jUzAItioRTBApKBj8ATfgIRIpQB1coyYVsIasaIMV6iq1xAeEGtaA-w

Also check out the discussion thread about this build here: https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/mesmer/condition-build-The-Clone-Spammer/first#post2320607

bobross.5034:

sigils of energy on each set, means a free dodge (and clone) every 10 seconds.

Hi bobross, a question: if I have 2 on-swap sigils (say energy & hydromancy) on a weaponset (sword + focus), would they BOTH activate when i swap to the weaponset?

I’ll test this out in HotM later but I’m at work so I figure I ask around on forum first.

Hi Zelotes
Please check out my build, I came up with it to play in sPvP and WvW, but it works wonder in PvE too. I solo champs with ease.

Link to thread: https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/mesmer/condition-build-The-Clone-Spammer/first#post2320607

This is a condition/CC build relying on the ability to slow and lock down your opponent. You don’t do fancy great critical damage but rather wear down the opponent over time.

This build doesn’t use Staff or GS but please try it out and give me your thoughts about it. You might like it.
Cheers

The way i see it, the only way to tank now is to go for stealth-heavy build which doesn’t work in PvE since you lose aggro.

Thanks for the tip, bobross. I didn’t know about the shared cooldown thing. That really messes up my setup. I am now settled with Sigil of Agony + Sigil of Earth (this one has pretty short cooldown) or Sigil of Purity (if going up against heavy conditon opponents); on the other weapon set it’s Hydromancy and Sigil of Chilling. I find that 6x Runes of Grenth is also a good option going with this sigil setup.

Also, I swap out Illusions IX (Blinding Befuddlement) for X (Phantasmal Haste) when going up against class that has ability to target drop (thief / mesmer). Choose the right target and summon iDuelist then I’m good to go.

hi there,
Check out my condition build:
Link: https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/mesmer/condition-build-The-Clone-Spammer/first#post2317745

This build has great CC abilities to lock down your foe and stacks conditions like crazy.
Combined with your friend Necro, I assume that he’s gonna use Torment, i think you two will work very well together on the battefield.
Good luck.

Keep up the good work guys. Come on Anet, we mesmers deserve a MH pistol
And while at it, can we get rapier skin for sword, and hand-held fan skin for focus please!

My take on the pistol, names are subject to change.
#1: Quick Shot (1/4s range: 1200): normal shot, deals decent dmg
Debilitating Shot (1/2s range: 1200): apply Vulnerability
Illusionary Stream (1s range: 1200): shoot out slow-moving stream of butterflies that hits in a line and apply Confusion.
#2: Phase Dash (1/2s range: 900): throw your pistol to the target, deals minor damage, then dash (something like dashing clone in iLeap) to the target, dealing high damage upon crashing into them.
Temporal Recall (1/4s): create a clone at your position and teleport back to the original position before you Phase Dash.
#3: Shattered Bullet (2s channel range: 900, 1200 if traited): shoot a crystal shard that repeatedly shatters on impact dealing AoE dmg and bleed as you channel the skill. Total hits: 8

My take on the elite
Twin Dream: summon a phantasm looking like a clone wielding your main-hand weapon.
The phantasm is as tough and hit as hard as other phantasms but he gains an extra 10% in health for each other phantasm active and gains an extra 10% in recharge rate for each clone active. The phantasm uses your weapon #1 autoattack skill.
(1.5s cast time , 120s recharge)

Hi mikelevins
Im glad that you find the build effective, enjoyable and inspiring.
Even more happy that you decide to add this into your recommended list. May I implore you keep the Clone Spammer name in your variation?

mikelevins.4639:

It has quite a different feel in combat. Shatter feels like fencing; this build feels more methodical, like chess—or even Poker.

I like your analogy to chess or poker. This build is indeed based on mind games and human psychology (not that i’m an expert in this field, its just common sense)

When you get crippled, you try to move a lot, seeing a lot of clones around you, the last thing you want to do is to stand there and get owned by a shatter coming your way. I tested this build with my friend in sPvP and he told me its pretty much perma-crippled. The combined force of Torment and Confusion leaves little room for you to try to regain your mobility, you move Torment gets you, you use skills to move around – Confusion. Eventually, condition cleansing is the only choice. And you have at least 4 conditions on you to take care of. All of that puts a lot of pressure on you.

mikelevins.4639:

I’ve won a few fights by bluffing! If I stand there and look like a clone, instead of moving like a player, enemies will sometimes assume that I am a clone, and attack one of my clones instead!

It always amuses me when I take 1 or 2 seconds to stand there and watch that warrior 100B my poor clone (who would just die if I dodge anyway) or a thief HS-jumps around killing my clones seeing how little health they have left.

Having said all that, the build still has some glaring issues that need addressing. After more experimenting and taking into consideration the feedbacks from everyone in this thread, I have decided to give up staff for sword + focus since this secondary weapon set helps resolve those glaring issues. I don’t write off Staff completely though, i think it’s still very effective and depending on individual playstyle, people might prefer it over Sword + focus. As for me, Ive been running with Sword for too long and miss it too much now.

Please check out this new variation to the build:
http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fgEQRAra8dlwzKq3UzgGbNJipCBHaGXX1RqQpVmBudhA-jUzAItioRTVE0IPwkIEqEYKMq5whMWFLiGrGCTjGZVaS1xAeEGtahA8tGA-w

So what are the changes and the logic behind them?
- Utility skills: out of combat or in group fight where you have your team to lock down the opponents, switch out Signet of Domination for Signet of Inspiration. Will also swap Decoy for Blink to try it out. (to be honest, sometimes the clones are produced so fast that the explosions actually cloud my vision!) But the choice between Blink and Decoy, again, depends on each person’s playstyle since they’re equally good for this build.
- Armor & Trinkets: mix more Carrion into the default Rabid gear for improved health pool. Will try out 6x Rune of Lyssa for the awesome condition removal and boons.

- Weapons: change from Staff to Sword + Focus. The reasons are:
*Sword clones chase and hug target, and rip boons. Whats not to like!
*Blurred Frenzy provides an active defense (as compared to more passive defense by Chaos Armor and Chaos Storm, at least to me anyway, it was really hard for me to let go of my staff though!) Its fast attack rate of BF means it can easily stack Bleed with Sigil of Earth as well while you defend yourself.
*iLeap/Swap: a snare, more CC = better control on enemy. Also with sword equipped, use iLeap + Mirror Images to sneak up on your enemy, then swap to Scepter, and you’re all set with 3 clones even before you engage your enemy.
*Temporal Curtain: gives swiftness to improve both in- and out-of- combat mobility, can also be used as area denial utility (oh did i mention this build works ridiculously well when fighting in confined space). Into the Void = pull and cripple, even more CC. Extra help with chasing down enemies running away if you already used your 2 stuns.
*TC + iWarden combo: more condition cleansing in addition to Sigil of Purity

- Sigils: Sigil of Earth on Scepter & Sword for bleed stacking; Purity on Pistol for condition removal; as for Focus i use Sigil of Geomancy for the visually scary burst bleed on swap, alternatively you can use Sigil of Hydromancy for the CC chill.

- Consumables: lots of options now, just go with whatever suits you really.

My thanks to all of you for your really helpful feedbacks. I really hope this build catch on and that skilled players would make it shine in competitive play.

In addition to what people have already suggested to improve ooc combat, my own idea is to add to Signet Mastery trait, something like increase movement speed by 7% under the effect of each signet. You lose this effect when the signet is activated or under cooldown. Do not stack with Swiftness or Compounding Celerity.

Ooc speed has nothing with class balance here. The problem I have is that when i play in WvW and coordinate with my team, my mes is just too slow to get to certain places to respond timely when events occur. And this is critical as one more mes in a group fight can turn the tide of a battle. Unfortunately, more often than not, i usually arrive to the scene too late.

In addition to what people have already suggested to improve ooc combat, my own idea is to add to Signet Mastery trait, something like increase movement speed by 7% under the effect of each signet. You lose this effect when the signet is activated or under cooldown. Do not stack with Swiftness or Compounding Celerity.

Velimere.7685:

… I would’ve liked 3 seconds of stability to go with it; that way condition damage still gets through while BF doesn’t get interrupted …

I wasn’t aware that BF is now interruptible. This makes me very sad. It’s gonna be very hard to tank champs with it now.

TooBz.3065:

I tried something very like this last night in WvW after the scepter fix.

I had a lot of trouble and didn’t feel like it had very much power. Most people seemed to shrug off the small amount of condition damage I was able to apply. But this may be a L2P issue.

Has anyone else tried this since the fix? I like the idea, but I haven’t been very effective. http://intothemists.com/calc/?build=VO;4VPV11z6sU-71;9;49O9-O4;019-4;348-awW8;2NX8aNX8aPtFqNAV7;3A-F0K1PYUZ_49eWPk4R06Rk06R;9;9;9;9;9;4V6s5q

Hi TooBz, don’t be discouraged by your low condition DoT. Like I said in previous post, the build is based on the interplay of 4 types of conditions so individually, you have look at the number they’re not too scarily powerful. Also, the idea is to bait your foes into ignoring the DoT from conditions until it’s too late; “oh snap, i better heal/cleanse”, this is where you play smart, you interrupt their heal/cleanse, stunlock and move in for the kill.

For stun: we have Pistol #4 and Signet of Domination. They’re amazing.
For burst dmg to finish off your foes: you have Scepter #3 (use this wisely, make sure they can’t dodge it and it also gives your position away), Pistol #4, and the two Shatters (F1 & F2).

Stun then drop Chaos Storm is also a powerful combo.

Cheers

This is to sum up the pros/cons of this build based on my experience and the feedbacks from all of you:

Pros:
- solid condition damage, not overly relying on one type of condition (like confusion) but rather make it work in sync with other conditions to its full effectiveness.
- very effective in 1v1 encounter, you win by outlasting the opponent
- confusion & ‘trolling’ factor: with clones constantly pop up and explode, enemy will have a hard time to figure out where the real culprit (aka you) is as the explosion animation adds to the dynamic chaos. We mesmers thrive on chaos btw. On top of that, they have to deal with their mobility and condition issues at hand.

Cons:
- require kiting and positioning skills
- very poor condition removal
- need to blend in well with your clones otherwise you’re exposed and vulnerable (compare to sword wielder, you don’t have Blurred Frenzy and Vigor procs less often)

Feel free to give me your thoughts so i can add more to the list guys
Thanks

@djtool & toutatis: Thanks for your feedbacks guys. Really appreciate it.
I have updated the post with suitable changes to make the build more effective while staying true to its original principle.

So I jumped in sPvP and tested out the build (check the sPvP link in the first post). I must say, for an amateur PvPer, it was quite effective. In 1v1 situations, i managed to best all other professions except mesmer. That’s probably because he outplayed me with greatsword; I’ve been running with Sword + Torch / Staff in my power-crit build for my whole mesmer life, so I need to spend more time to master the scepter, especially the tormenting block.

A couple of notes/lessons to self that I want to share:

- practice, practice, practice the block. Torment rocks and should be used as much as possible. Even if I fail to time it properly and put up the block too soon, i can always throw it to blind and confuse opponent.

- Torment logic and the whole clone death dictate that against melee foes, I kite, keep them chasing after me in their semi-crippled, confused, bleeding, or probably tormented state. Against ranged opponent though, i find it more effective to hug them and surround them with my clones. My best experience was that when my clones and I surrounded an ele, he spammed AoE attacks, clones die and conditions kicked in so fast that it almost looked like he killed himself with his AoE spells. lol

- while the build doesn’t support shatters, you should still use shatters if the situation demands for it. F2 & F4 are probably the best bet.

- Scepter #2, #3, and Pistol #4, and Mind Wrack are your ‘burst’ skills (not great but decent dmg dealer). Scepter #3 and Pistol #4 work great against Thief, the skills still continue to hit them as long as it connects before thief go stealth.

- Sigil of Rage is useless, with 40-ish crit chance it simply doesn’t proc often enough. Besides, normal clone generation rate is more than enough during fight. Similarly, Sigil of Hobbling is nice but not worthwhile since it’s too defensive and the effect is not that significant. I settle on Sigil of Earth for both scepter and staff to stack more bleeds.

- Will try out 6x Lyssa since it’s quite a powerful combination

- Mass Invi it is, short CDs and it would like a fight reset button with 6x Lyssa runes. Might use Time Warp in big group fight since it’ll be devastating.

Hi Mei Mato,
Thanks for sharing your build with us.
I actually did read about this build before I posted mine. Cool name and i thought it was something similar.
Not trying to judge or compare the two builds here, just want to point out that the two are different in principle.
I’ll take your advice about using iDuelist to stack up on bleeds so that setup is 2 clones + iDuelist.
Though the sword clones hugging enemy is really nice, I need the scepter for my build to work as explained here:
My build is based on the interplay between four main types of conditions which are constantly applied to foe during fight:
- Bleed: provides the baseline DoT
- Cripple: impairs foe’s mobility and forces foe to use skills for movement/mobility
- Confusion: punishes foe for using skills.
- Torment: extra DoT and discourages foe movement (work in sync with Cripple)

Having said that, I’ll definitely try out your build. It’s cool and very good damage-wise. My build is more CC rather than damage-oriented.

Thanks again for posting.

Sorry that my post has offended you. I was not aware of the nerf on DE.

Guys hear me out: Please stop thinking about Torment and Confusion as direct dmg condition. They’re not like Bleed, Burning, or Poison. You need to bait your foe to fall for these two conditions. They require planning and setting up for maximum effectiveness.

Xephiare has been experimenting a build that I come up with and while it’s still early to say it’s viable or not. I think this is one way to make Torment and Confusion work.

Please check it out and discusss: https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/mesmer/condition-build-The-Clone-Spammer/first#post2307256

Hi Xeph many thanks for spending time experimenting the build and your feedbacks.

Can’t wait to try out this build in sPvP. PvE and WvW have to wait because i need to farm for rabid gear. I’m still at work, it’s Friday and time just doesn’t seem to pass by fast enough.

How effective the cripple went against your opponents?

One thing I want to comment about this build is that it is based on mind games (which our class is all about). And that makes it fun and annoying as hell to your opponent. I feel like this is how Torment is meant to be used. And Scepter autoattack suddenly becomes good. I used to wish that the attack rate were faster but that would have made this build OP

Aberrant.6749:

“Decreased the clone base hit points by 25% in PvP and WvW.”

This is a buff to my build, check it out: https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/mesmer/condition-build-The-Clone-Spammer/first#post2306704

@Korusef: thanks for the tip.
I think against straight dmg opponent, this build will counter well but if up against another condition foe, it’ll come down to whoever stacks conditions faster which the build might be at some disadvantage since it requires some build-up time, but hey, you can switch to staff to stack conditions faster at any time.
Anyway, I never had much luck going up against condition nec with my mes. Maybe I’m just bad

@Xephiare
1. Yes it does.that’s the.whole idea behind this build.
2. This is something I have to look into. I might have to switch signet out for null field or use sigil when it comes to that.

My condition build The Clone Spammer

A bit of background story
I’ve been playing around with the scepter post 25/6 patch. It is an established fact that scepter is now our condition weapon. I was annoyed by the fact that with Deceptive Evasion + Scepter’s autoattack, I keep replacing clones so quickly that they don’t stay long enough to do anything.

But then I hit me that we have 3 traits that make clones do something when they get replaced. I connected all the dots and came up with this build. This is just my theorycrafted build, I don’t have the rabid gear to try it out yet.

So if anyone’s interested, please try it out and give me feedbacks on how effective it is and what pros/cons it has. It looks very good on paper for me, everything just synergizes so well.

So here’s the link:
http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fgEQNAraWlwzKq3UzgGaNJipCBHaGXX1RqQpVmBudhA-jwyA4MioRqCINCIFG1c4QGriRt+OkRNEmKdR16YAPCjWtQAnWDA-e

The build is based on the idea that you keep creating clones and get your opponent to get trapped in the AoE clone death explosion cycle to inflict conditions while you yourself also put on tons of conditions on them. If they kill your clones, they get punished. If they don’t, you still actively kill your clones (no shattering here) while keep pressuring to get the same effects.
With this build the recent nerf to clone’s health in PvP is suddenly a buff

Stats:
Main stats: Condition damage, precision enough to get 40-ish% crit chance.
As with any condition build, you can get very tanky with 18k health and 2,3k armor and the longer the fight, the more favourable it is to you.

Weapon:
Scepter + Pistol as main weapon set / switch to Staff to go back to the conventional condition build or for defensive utilities.

Gear:
I’d run with full Rabid on weapons and trinkets, mix some Carrion in armor to improve health if necessary.

Sigils:
I’d use on-crit sigils, especially Rage to get quickness to produce more clones; and Sigil of Earth to get more bleeds. I would also consider Sigil of Hobbling to increase Crippling duration, I explain why later in the playstyle section.

Runes:
2x Lyssa, 4x Nightmare: for extra condition damage and precision, but the key thing here is +20% condition duration in total.

Slot skills:
Ether Feast; Decoy, Mirror Images for clone production (obvious choices); and since we run out of clone-generation skills, Signet of Domination is the best candicate for the last slot.

Elite skill:
Time Warp: you can’t go wrong with Quickness buff.

Food buffs:
I see 3 things to buff here: Condition Damage, Precision, and Condition Duration.

Traits: 10/25/10/0/25
Crippling Dissipation (Dom V), Confusing Combatants (Duel 25), and Debilitating Dissipation (Chaos V) are obvious choices here since they are the foundation of this build.

Deceptive Evasion for more clone generation. I could go with Desperate Decoy (Duel V) as well to get an extra clone but that’s too defensive, so I settle with Duel II.

As for the rest, Illusions V and IX make confusion more powerful.

Playstyle:
Always start the fight with your well-timed block as the enemy recklessly charges their first attack to burst you down meaning they now have Torment. Now with 1,7k condition damage you have, they will hesitate to move and this is when the fun begins. Start spamming clones with Scepter #1 to get their mobility severely hindered.

Positioning your clones is the key here and Crippling assists you with it. I now realise that clones produced near your enemy with Scepter #1 is such a good thing.

I can see this build requires a lot of kiting. But a careless opponent might get perma- crippled and might just blow all condition removal just to catch up with you in battle.
Even better, you have extra ways to lock down your foe in one place with Pistol #5 and Signet of Domination.

So that’s all I have for your guys.
Any thoughts and feedbacks are much appreciated.
Please discuss. Thanks

PS: I can see how Scepter #1 produces 2 clones makes this build OP, but that bug will be fixed soon. So enjoy it as much while you still can.

@Korusef: would you like to check out and comment on my build since it works on illusion death condition as well. https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/mesmer/condition-build-The-Clone-Spammer/first#post2306009

Hi guys,

A bit of background story
I’ve been playing around with the scepter post patch. It is an established fact that scepter is now our condition weapon. I was annoyed by the fact that with Deceptive Evasion + Scepter’s autoattack, I keep replacing clones so quickly that they don’t stay long enough to do anything.

But then I hit me that we have 3 traits that make clones do something when they get replaced. I connected all the dots and came up with this build. This is just my theorycrafted build, I don’t have the rabid gear to try it out yet.

So if anyone’s interested, please try it out and give me feedbacks on how effective it is and what pros/cons it has. It looks very good on paper for me, everything just synergizes so well.

So here’s the link:
WvW/PvE: http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fgEQNAraWlwzKq3UzgGaNJipCBHaGXX1RqQpVmBudhA-jwyAINioRqigGVCMFG1c4QGriRt+OkRNEmKdR16YAPCjWtMAMrB-e

sPvP: http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fgAQNAraWlwzKq3UzgGaNJipCBHaGXX1RqQpVmBudhA-TwAAzCoI+SVk7LzXyvsFNqYVxskXFA

The build is based on the idea that you keep creating clones and get your opponent to get trapped in the AoE clone death explosion cycle to inflict conditions while you yourself also put on tons of conditions on them. If they kill your clones, they get punished. If they don’t, you still actively kill your clones (no shattering here) while keep pressuring to get the same effects.
With this build the recent nerf to clone’s health in PvP is suddenly a buff

Stats:
Main stats: Condition damage, precision enough to get 40-ish% crit chance.
Health around 17-18k depending how good you are, Toughness around 1500 is enough.

Weapon:
Scepter + Pistol as main weapon set / switch to Staff to go back to the conventional condition build or for defensive utilities.

Gear:
I’d run with full Rabid on weapons and trinkets, mix some Carrion in armor to improve health if necessary otherwise you can go all-out with Rabid.

Sigils:
I’d use on-crit sigils: Sigil of Earth to get more bleeds. I use Sigil of Purity (or even better Generosity if you can afford it) on off-hand pistol for condition removal.

Runes:
1) 2x Lyssa, 4x Nightmare: for extra condition damage and precision, but the key thing here is +20% condition duration in total.
2) 6x Lyssa: more crit chance and condition removal as well as those nice golden boons when you pop Mass Invi. In group fight, be sure to switch to Signet of Inspiration to share the boons with your allies.

Slot skills:
Ether Feast; Decoy, Mirror Images for clone production (obvious choices); and since we run out of clone-generation skills, Signet of Domination is the best candicate for the last slot.

Elite skill:
Mass Invi: Good to relieve pressure off you and reposition yourself and the clones. Short CD.

Food buffs:
I see 3 things to buff here: Condition Damage, Precision, and Condition Duration.
Defensively, you can use Lemongrass if you find yourself having trouble dealing with conditions.

Traits: 10/25/10/0/25
Crippling Dissipation (Dom V), Confusing Combatants (Duel 25), and Debilitating Dissipation (Chaos V) are obvious choices here since they are the foundation of this build.

Deceptive Evasion for more clone generation. I could go with Desperate Decoy (Duel V) as well to get an extra clone but that’s too defensive, so I settle with Duel II.

As for the rest, Illusions V and IX make confusion more powerful.

Playstyle:
Always start the fight with your well-timed block as the enemy recklessly charges their first attack to burst you down meaning they now have Torment. Now with 1,7k condition damage you have, they will hesitate to move and this is when the fun begins. Start spamming clones with Scepter #1 to get their mobility severely hindered.

Positioning your clones is the key here and Crippling assists you with it. I now realise that clones produced near your enemy with Scepter #1 is such a good thing.

I can see this build requires a lot of kiting. But a careless opponent might get perma- crippled and might just blow all condition removal just to catch up with you in battle.
Even better, you have extra ways to lock down your foe in one place with Pistol #5 and Signet of Domination.

So that’s all I have for your guys.
Any thoughts and feedbacks are much appreciated.
Please discuss. Thanks

Edited: No more double clone producing on Scepter #1
Edited #2: Given feedbacks and personal experience in testing, I have updated changes to gear and elite skill to make the build more effective while staying true to the principle. Thanks all for your suggestions.

Navi.7142:

Patch notes that are already up.
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/info/news/Game-Update-Notes-June-25th-2013/first#post2304961

“Mesmer:
Ether Clone: Fixed a bug causing this ability to generate two clones in a WvW or PvP map.”

Lol, they put mesmer as a bullet point under Engineer. So much for class equality and balancing.