Guild Wars 2

@Palu: ranger has access to ethereal field through certain pets and necro has Spectral Wall. But really, we mesmers pretty much monopolize this type of combo field.

Mesmers have access to only 2 combo fields: ethereal and light.
The best combo imo is Ethereal + Blast = Chaos Armor for you and nearby allies.
But in actuality, all combo field you get from your group is good, ‘abuse’ them all.

Here’s some good information for you: http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Table_of_mesmer_combo_skills

In most of my condition builds, with +condition duration food, DE is usually enough to keep up the clone generation for on-death effects and the conditions last long enough. This means while I usually have Decoy and SoD, the third utility can be switched to anything to suit the combat situations, be it Null Field, Blink, or Feedback.

Sorry guys, I think i posted a wrong link, that was my PU/interrupt hybrid. Sorry for the confusion.
Thanks for all the feedback.
@skcamow: don’t worry, i’m experimenting with a power build as well. With power build, I definitely go with sword and sigil of hydromancy. They work well together (I use Sigil of Ice with Scepter because I usually stay ranged in this setup).
I think with power i stick with the same traits, just swapping gear into Zerker/Knight really. My traits are: 20/20/30/0/0. with Halting Strike, Chaotic Interruption. Like bobross, I’m still deciding between Chaotic Dampening and Bountiful Interruption. But I most likely go for BI since I will be on Sword+Pistol most of the time.

I really hope your version of the story is true. Lots of plot twists.

Ok, in OP’s post, they explicitly said the 2 core contents of the game are PvE and WvW. If so, please stop nerfing mesmers in PvE and WvW with the purpose of balancing in tPvP.

As for new skills and traits, I always welcome such additions as long as they don’t take away the manpower used to keep fixing our existing skill/trait bugs.

I think the name is misleading. If you watch the animation carefully, it’s more like the clone dashing to target, and because it’s not a leap, the clone must travel across the terrain and this is where things get buggy. The clone with stupid AI gets stuck with a little bump on the ground and can’t jump over it. In this regard, it should be named Illusionary Dash.

I would much prefer the clone actually leaps to the target (why not, iSwordman can) so the terrain won’t be a problem anymore.

What do you guys think? The skill is great, but it could be much better.

@OP: my sincere suggestions to you to improve your chance at defeating a mesmer
- Take your time to learn how to spot the real mesmer. Focus fire on them.
I actually used to go in sPvP with a bunker build and face off different mesmers in there to practice my ‘recognition’ skills. A bunker build helped me stay for longer period of time. Over time, with practice, you can spot the real mesmer very quick.
- Don’t mindlessly charge in and blow all your good attacks on a clone.
- With clones, you can safely ignore them for the most part except when a shatter is coming. Again, learn to recognise the shatter and dodge it.
- With phantasms, only take them out when you can’t attack on the real mesmer (because they’re in stealth or distortion). Otherwise, block/reflect/dodge their attacks and focus fire on the real mesmer as usual.
- AoE attacks sure help but the above tips are for when you lack in AoE attack arsenal.

Thanks bobross for your very comprehensive reply.
Could you please have a look and comment on this build I’m gearing for (got my first celestial armor piece yesterday): http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fgAQNAraWl0zKqHVzgGb9IipHBHyJckUYaAQJF42FC-j0yAINBR6SgIDgJ/ioxWzKiGrmBTbGZVaS1xA+jI7RUWlCAi1AA-w
Thanks a lot.

@skcamow: I tried Furious Interruption out recently. I’m not quite impressed with it, due to the fact it has a 15-sec ICD. More often you interrupt then to find out the thing is on CD, even if you’re good with interrupts, it’s still very hard to use it more than once in a single fight. Quickness only lasts for 3 seconds. If there were not an ICD, the trait would be very good given you have plenty of ways to interrupt, Interrupt more often = more quickness uptime.

Edited: reuploaded the correct link.

This is just getting more interesting. We now have yet another trick with Mass Invi and Veil.

The way i see it: Chill synergizes well with Condition build (Grenth runes, Condi food), whereas Interrupt goes well with Power like Halting Strike.
As for a hybrid build, I have no idea how to make one. My previous attempts always made my mesmer a jack of all trades = useless.
Anyone have any suggestion for me to make a hybrid build? Like minimum stat requirements (2700 power, 50% crit chance, etc. for example) so I can balance them out. Thanks in advance.

@OP: Thanks for the build. Very interesting take on chill.
@bobross: I’m also curious about Furious Interruption, is it worth the grandmaster trait slot?
I’m trying something with similar traits, although my build is a condition rather than power-based.
Here’s the link: http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fgEQNAraWl0zKqHWzgGb9IipHBHyJckKUalegbXItB-jUyA4MioRaCIdZIa5wioxW/KiGrmBTluoadMgHhRrWKAIWDA-w

Thanks Anet for the greatest in-game toy ever… well, until I get my flute, it is.

I’m still wondering why people don’t refer to her by first name, Ellen.

Levitas.1953:

Weird, I still have to meet a mesmer without off hand.
Or someone that cant afford a white focus/torch/pistol/sword.

@keenlam: Your logic is that you cant compare 2 weapons with 1 weapon. However, You can compare 5 skills with 3 weapon skills. The first thing invalidates the comparison, the second one does not. Im impressed.

Posts like “you said sword/focus now but before you said sword well its different because…” are also BS. As well as “on paper this is better but against this one its weak and then…”. Everything is situational, I can pop feedback on a stupid ranger and dont touch him with a weapon, i can melt him with a single mind wrack or i can die. This discussions are pointless.
Sword is probably the best bet and my next legendary (after a GS) but at the end of the day choose the skin you like.

Btw, with noob stick he means GS.

Levitas, thanks for totally understood my point.
You simply just can’t compare these two weapons in any way. It’s like comparing apple to orange.

Ok, not a big fan of gs, I like sword better. BUT I’m with ArmageddonAsh on this one. Since Ryu-something is so obsessed with Dps numbers, I’m just gonna go out of my way and call bs. Gs gives you 5 skills, that’s more than enough to outDps swords 3 skills. Especially when MH sword does not give you a phantasm. Sure you can argue that you can use an offhand, but thats 2 weapons against gs, which surely invalidates the comparison.

ArmageddonAsh.6430:

What other classes “special Mechanic” needs to be TRAITED for to make it actually worth using

Just so you know:
Thief’s Steal only deals dmg when traited.
Guardian’s Virtues needs to be traited if you want to use/abuse them, otherwise best just leave it on passive.
Ranger’s Pets, if don’t put points in Beast Mastery, they’re pretty much useless especially with the dmg nerf recently.
That should be enough examples for you since you love comparing our class to other classes.

ArmageddonAsh.6430:

You dont build around them they should be used to supplement your build.
The point being to make any of them worthwhile (or even usable) is that they need to be traited for to make them worth using (depending on opinion, i still think when traited they suck)

Really biased, totally agree on ‘depending on opinion’ part though.
Also I repeat, shatter is one of the class core mechanics, if you use it for your build, you have to build around it, because it’s CORE. You had it the other way round (supplement your build, really?)

PS: I give up, won’t post any further. Sounds like you have trouble understanding my English.

Does it actually work on enemy player? Do they look like clones on enemy screen?
That would be great.

ArmageddonAsh.6430:

I find the whole shatter system very meh. The Shatter i use the most is Distortion. The rest arent to great. Unless you are BUILT for a Shatter build then its more effective most of the time to not shatter them

I don’t shatter much tbh, maybe it’s my relaxing playstyle or I’m just too lazy to bother pressing F keys. Too many keys =p.

@ArmageddonAsh:

Lol, i think you misunderstand me somehow.
I listed 3 ways you can utilise the resources – our illusions. Of course you want to choose one (or two) of those and optimise the effectiveness by building traits/gearing up around it. One doesn’t necessarily need to make use of all those 3 ways, you can but then you’re a jack of all trades.
Still don’t know why you disagreed to my bullet points which are pretty much universal truth.

Hi Kylun,
I found a great practice place for this build.
If you can solo this guy using the build, then I have the utmost confidence that you can use it effectively in any other situation.
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Help_Shining_Blade_Kimber_defeat_Kol_Skullsmasher

PS: I defeated him once but don’t think I want to do it again since it takes a forever.

Hi Kylun,
I think Reaper of Grenth would be very good for condition build if not for its long CD.
In PvE, I have Mass Invi most of the time but the only reason I use it when me or my group want to skip through mob, so it’s like “Nah, I don’t have time for that.” button.
So as Palu said, Mass Invi has little use in PvE.
In WvW, when i go with group, I choose Time Warp because it gives my team a huge advantage over the enemy group. Unless they greatly outnumber us, the fight usually ends with us winning.

I see
I think shatter and phantasm builds are still popular and powerful despite some minor setbacks from nerf patches.
If you’ve been checking the forum regularly, there is a growing number of new condition and interrupt builds which can lend themselves to support roles quite good in group fights.

Check out my condition build if you’re interested: https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/mesmer/condition-build-The-Clone-Spammer/page/2#post2370617

Also, I’m trying an interrupt build at the same time. Here’s a link:
http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fgEQNAraWlwzKq3UzgGa9IhJFAA5keYaAc6SK4duB-jQxAYLBxkXR0YrZFRjVXjpcJiqBA-e

Hi OP:
Use this as a starting point (if you don’t mind reading through walls of text)
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/mesmer/List-Find-your-Mesmer-Build-Guides/first

Hi OP,
May I suggest you pick up the staff?
It’s the best defensive weapon mesmer has. In fact, it is arguably the best weapon mesmer has (maybe sword comes close in second best).
Back when I was leveling my mesmer, I usually went with Staff / Sword + Sword for best defense on weapon skills (Phase Retreat, Chaos Storm, Chaos Armor, Blurred Frenzy, iRiposte).
Also master the common combos with these weapon sets such as how to make Chaos Armor by leaping through Ethereal Field (Chaos Storm + Phase Retreat for example)
My favourite combo while leveling is that: iLeap/Swap/Blurred Frenzy/Chaos Storm/iRiposte/Phase Retreat/Mind Wrack. That should melt everything in the vicinity most of the time. If not, then it’s time to bring out the mighty phantasms
I’m good and enjoy fighting at mid-range and melee-range so I’m not a big fan of greatsword.
Also, against ranged mobs, you can practice using Mirror instead of Ether Feast.

Hope it helps. Have fun.

Varconi.1804:

keenlam.4753:

Just make scepter #1 produce 2 clones. I’m sure it is possible, Anet can make this change quite easily. =P

It actually did produce 2 for awhile it was bugged. Was really overpowered for specs with conditions on clone death as you could create so many clones.

Hi Varconi, I’m aware of that bug back then. That’s why I said it should be easy for Anet. Also I was half joking when I said that. I agree with you that Scepter is in a good place atm, it might not be so straightforward to use it to its full potential but it’s there for people who actually bother using it.
Cheers =)

Edited: Checked out your build, look interesting, will try it out.

Great ideas. I support this 100%.+1

Just make scepter #1 produce 2 clones. I’m sure it is possible, Anet can make this change quite easily. =P

@OP:
Instructions on how to beat a mesmer:
1. Learn and understand the class mechanics:
Reference materials: https://www.guildwars2.com/en-gb/the-game/professions/mesmer/
2. Beat a mesmer.

The way I look at mesmer’s illusions:
They’re not pets, they’re resources. So it’s more fitting to compare our illusions to thief’s initiative or warrior’s adrenaline, rather than necro’s minions or ranger’s pets.

You generate resources during to combat, then use it for either:
1) shatter – main class mechanic (every mesmer should learn this the first thing in their mesmer life)
2) on-death effects for conditions
3) burst dmg from phantasms (pretty much like warrior’s burst move) since all phantasms deal great dmg (except iMage ofc)

The class mechanic is perfectly unique as it is, please don’t dumb it down to like any other class’s. Although some number tweaking/balancing would be nice (like make iMage more powerful, clone skill CDs, etc.)

Hi guys,
Firstly, to those who have generously helped others win the race by holding themselves back, I tip my hat to you. What a great gesture.

Now my solution to the dilemna we have here is that:
If you want to wait at the finish line to let others win, please do so without letting them know it in advance. Don’t reveal your intention if you really want to help them in the best way. Thus people still at least think that they have to try their best to get the achievement.

I rolled a human mesmer because both Queen Jennah and Countess Anise are mesmers, very powerful ones actually.

That’s a brilliant idea. If so, then make confusion stacks in duration and not intensity since its not a dps-condition anymore. But i think that would require pretty much an overhaul of all confusion skills.

As i understand, 4 as in 4 directions.

@Winds:
I’m just saying that being a condition mesmer, you have all the tools available to carry your group instead of relying on other professions/team members. So you can fill in any role.
By your saying, every time someone wants to do dungeon with me, I would have to check the team:
- Do we have warrior to get vulnerability? – Yes, tick
- Do we have thief to blind? – Yes, tick
- Do we have necro to … No
Well, tough luck can’t do this dungeon.

So Winds, I agree with you that in a perfect team setup, zerker build outshines.
But I’ve been in situations where we had to 3-man a dungeon (me and 1 necro and 1 guardian) and I helped the team got through it with my condition build.

As for the conditions are being unreliable, well, that depends on how you build and play.

@Pyro:
While I admire your contribution to the community and acknowledge you as one of the seniors here in terms to knowledge and expertise, I would go on to say that it is very biased of you to say “I’m forced to disagree entirely” (with my reply to OP).
My reply was aimed to sum up everyone’s opinions (including mine) and present it in a least biased way so OP can make his/her informed decision, since it sounds like a big deal to him/her.
Its not like “I play condition, its great go for it.” “No, power build has much more dmg, you kill mobs faster, condition build sucks.”
So if you read my post carefully, you see I present my opinions with agreement to some extent to yours. Thus by saying you disagree entirely with my reply, does that mean you saying condition build would out-DPS power build? Obviously not.
So here’s my counter:
- Condition builds are forced to take traits that power builds are not: well, you take traits to define your condition build. Same goes with Shatter, Phantasm builds. Otherwise, it wouldn’t call Condition build, would it?
- The build you posted is a support build, of course it will provide more support than a pure condition build. Otherwise, why would you call it support in the first place?
- About RNG and unreliable damage, I made it quite clear that yes power build usually out-DPS condition build. This I totally agree with. But conditions are used to do more than just dealing damage (not all conditions are damage-dealing) and since mobs don’t cleanse conditions, they act as great group support. For example, crippling, immobile, and chilling provide great crowd/movement control. Vulnerability debuffs, etc. Again, your argument is still very wrapped up in the all-about-DPS thinking.
- You keep saying that power build has more potential for support than condition build, but gave no vivid example of what power build can do that condition build cannot. And I’m sure that both OP and me would be very keen to be enlightened with such examples.

@OP:
Your question was simple “Is condition build viable in PvE?”, in other words, “Can you succeed with a condition build in PvE?”.
And my answer was also simple as YES.

Now further along this thread people extended the question into “Is condition build optimal in PvE?” = “Is condition build the best in PvE?”
This is rather a complicated question because there are a lot of factors to consider. Not just the damage output.

Most people here argue that condition build is not viable (or not optimal rather) because of the fact the conditions get overwritten when you go over stack cap. I think this is a very weak argument. In PvE, you don’t compete with your team to out-DPS others, you work together to bring down tough bosses. So if condition stacks get capped, it usually mean the team’s overall DPS is good enough and you might want to consider doing something else to support the team, being condition mesmer. As for power-based build, ofc you can contribute even more DPS with direct dmg attacks.

So OP, it’s really up to your playstyle to decide which build is more suitable, that you can maximise its potential with it. Do you play the main DPS role or support in your team?

Another factor is the group setting. Do you play with organised and well-equipped group? If so, then more DPS is most welcome since other group members might already have your back covered. Thus the choice is power-based build.

I choose condition build because firstly, I like to play support, watch others back so to speak. Secondly, I usually play in PUGs and help less experienced players to do dungeons, meaning I don’t have the luxury of organised group and they are usually poorly-equipped. And if half of your team is downed, you can be sure that you’re the main DPS person at the same time running around reviving others. Conditions are good in the sense that you still deal dmg even if you’re not attacking, so you have the flexibility to perform other tasks like buffing, debuffing, reviving, etc.

TL;DR: If you only judge a build based on its damage output, condition build for mesmer is bad. However, consider other factors like group settings, team support, choosing a condition build means you have the flexibility to support and carry your team through tough fights more often.

Hope my reply gives you a better view and comparison between the two paths that you want to choose.
:)

Sol Solus.3167:

You waypoint for free if you have no money on your character or bank. You can just give it all to an alt.

Is this true? Can someone confirm this for me please?

I say it from my own PvE experience, when it comes to high level PvE contents, being a condition mesmer, you can do more to support the group while still dishing out great damage over time. Also, against bosses, confusion is decent since they use skills more often. So my answer is YES.

Glog, we mesmers have 2 ways to give us Swiftness, but both are not unreliable: Focus #5 and Signet of Inspiration.
Many lvl80 mesmers (including myself) will use full set of centaur/air runes to help with movement speeds.

Just 1 condition or 1 stack of same type. Hope that helps.

ArmageddonAsh.6430:

bobross.5034:

. As the OP mentioned he is only concerned with elites that help with solo-roaming. He does not want to be a team player, and wants to be selfish only.

How did i say that exactly? Sure MI is okay, but is it worth being an elite? No. Thief get it AND heal and not be an Elite so why does ours have to be an elite when its just a weaker version of another classes UTILITY….

MI deserves its elite place, if you’re comparing to Thief’s Shadow Refuge or Blinding Power. Sorry, but neither of them is as good as MI. And please stop comparing our skills to another class skills.

Marcus Greythorne.6843:

I disagree with the OP. Some achievements which take TONS of time and commitment are equally worth as daylies which I get in a few minutes.

Bad design.

Disagree. Those achievements you don’t do them for the points, you get great rewards on the way to them and once you reach them. The points are just extra.
And don’t even bring up the Legendary Weapon one.

Only Moa is bad, the rest of our elites are awesome when used right.
Can we please have an elite phantasm, Anet?

Don’t forget the Focus Pull.

But seriously, this Mesmer sub-forum enjoys the best community with most members are active learners and teachers.

Wow, guys, thank you all for your great contribution. This thread has just gotten hot again. I see everyone has their own version of the build, all are interesting takes.

@Soryuju: Duel IX (Duelist’s Discipline) sounds nice especially when i want to make my iDuelist become a killing machine. Will try it out soon.

@Trigr: watched your vid, great combo. I knew there must have been someone before me thought about the idea and tried to make a good build out of it. Will try swapping Phantasmal Haste out for Illusionary Elasticity (for the staff version of my build)

@bobross: I like your thinking. 5 mesmers run this build and you have yourself an army of 15 suicide condi-bombers on the field. That’s gotta hurt the other team.

trooper.2650:

keenlam.4753:

trooper.2650:

… I watched your videos and you were doing very well

You have me confused, I don’t have any videos of me playing this build.

I must have confused threads… sorry

Haha, not a problem. Hope you have fun with the build.

Hi CNwhitenight,
This build works great in PvE, even better since mobs are stupid and most of the time go for your clones and phantasms thus providing excellent damage mitigation for yourself and your group.
I solo champs with this build.

To sum it up for you:
- this is a condition/CC build relying on the ability to slow and lock down your opponent. You don’t do fancy great critical damage but rather wear down the opponent over time. So no, compared to power-based builds (like shatter), you have less burst damage potential.
But you sacrifice that burst potential for excellent group support as listed:
- permanently slow and even lock down mobs
- distract mobs with your illusions (100% uptime)
- wear down mobs over time with your own conditions + conditions from illusions’ deaths.
- as for other utilities, you can always swap out any of the 3 default utility skills for a specific skill when the situations demand, be it Feedback, Null Field, Portal, Veil, etc.) the build still works fine. Utility slot skills are very flexible for this build, and for Mesmers in general.

Try it out and give me your feedback.

@gorma:
- Magnet is an unblockable skill (source: http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Magnet)
- Damage + Torment happens ~0.5s after the successful block (not instantly), so I guess there’s a range check before the damage is applied.

From what you say, it looks like when iCounter cannot determine the damage’s source, it won’t be able to damage or apply Torment. This could be an issue in group fight when you intend to block that attack but then out of nowhere another attack hits you first, the block is activated and you lose out on the counter benefits.
I agree that iCounter should be looked at and tweaked a bit to make it more useful for such encounters.

trooper.2650:

… I watched your videos and you were doing very well

You have me confused, I don’t have any videos of me playing this build.