Guild Wars 2

There are 3 mechanics introduced with mirage: cloak, mirror, and ambush skills with mirage cloak being the most central.
At the most basic level, their synergy can be seen as:
Mirror —> Cloak --> Ambush.

By Anet’s design (or at least what i think they had in mind),

1. Normally mirage cloak is used defensively by “dodge rolling”, and an entire middle trait line strengthens this use. Let’s call this reactive use.

2. Mirror offers an alternative way to gain cloak but you have to be more proactive with your positioning. Right now this “proactive use” is very clunky because it simply offers more defense and no offense. You trade your positional advantage for a short window of damage mitigation which in most cases is simpy not worth it.

3. Ambush skills encourage offensively use of mirage cloaks. but again, right now they are very undertuned.

Imo, 2+3 can be improved to work together and offer an aggressive playstyle. In fact, there are mirage traits already support a condi shatter build in which mirror and ambush skills can be used to push the dmg output further.

If mirage mirror can be adjusted to offer condi dmg, or dmg boost rather than just being a defensive tool, then Riddle of Sand, Shards of Glass, and Dune Cloak can together make a really awesome condi shatter build.

So my suggestions are:

Mirror now inflicts 10 vuln stacks and 5 bleeds when shattered OR
Shatter a mirror gains you a specific buff stack, upon reaching 3 stacks, your next attack unloads a barrage of conditions.

Also, shards of Glass now has 50% chance instead of 33% chance. OR
give us more ways to gain mirror through utility skills.

While our middle trait is very well-designed imo, the other 2 traitlines lack clarity of purpose.

There are 3 mechanics introduced with mirage: cloak, mirror, and ambush skills with mirage cloak being the most central.
At the most basic level, their synergy can be seen as:
Mirror —> Cloak --> Ambush.

So why I said the mid line is well -designed. Its theme is about utilizing mirage cloak to mitigate dmg, make you very tanky regardless whether you are power or condi spec. This line is a defensive line pure and simple. And the gm trait is certainly a game-changer, worth its GM status. Maybe Mirage Mantle could use some tuning with longer duration of protection. Renewing Oasis is fine.

So let’s see whats wrong with the top and bottom lines:

Looking at the topline, the gm trait Infinite Horizon seems to be the selling point of Mirage where you truly specilize in the art of blending in amongst your clones. This strategy might not work 100% in-game, but the playstyle is fun nevertheless. This obviously requires a good clone upkeep supported by the GM trait and Adept trait.
The Master trait, Shards of Glass, is a serious offender here, a bad trait that encourages shattering and make you stand out as you run around collect those mirrors (more in mirrors later). Very anti-synergistic.
Self-Deception is good for clone upkeep, fitting with the theme, but it is very restrictive. The requirement should be at least 1 illusion or no illusion at all with an ICD.

Bottom line is clearly a more offensive one. With the GM trait Dune Cloak encourages the proactive use of mirage cloak for condition dmg. In fact, with just a bit of tuning, this entire traitline can be tuned to support a condi shatter build because of traits like Riddle of Sand and Nomad’s Endurance.
Riddle of Sand follows the concept and is itself a good trait. But it is held back right now by how weak ambush skills are.
Mirrored Axes is a good trait but again, held back by how weak axe skills are right now.

Mirror right now is a very clunky mechanic and offers little reward vs risks. Imo, mirrors should be more offensive by design and play into proactive positioning. Then it makes sense that mirrors should be our way to use mirage cloak offensively as opposed to defensively “dodge rolling”. And there should be more access to it, make it more integral to the mirage class. One example could be shattering a mirror inflicts more dmg/debilitating conditions to enemies around (10 vuln. stacks, 5 bleeds. etc.).

If mirage mirror can be adjusted to offer condi dmg, or dmg boost rather than just being a defensive tool, then Riddle of Sand, Shards of Glass, and Dune Cloak can together make a really awesome condi shatter build.

@Pyro: I used this build for pvp recently but really struggle to hold ground against DH power-based traps (ranger traps are condi and can easily mitigated thru cleansing).
Any tips?

ErazorZ.5209:

Mesmer is OP.

-Signed S/F (yes marauder using) fresh air elementalist.

Why? Well i cant just make a claim like that without any personal experiences can i?

As you have stated stealth literally one shots marauder using proffesions. This alone shows there is no reall dynamics going on between a mesmer and a marauder using proffesion because the mesmer just needs to hit his buttons correctly with no counterplays possible. In a competetive game this is not about being more skillfull then your opponent, but hitting an unstoppable combo 1 shotting someone.

This forces people to not play marauder on any class if theyr facing mesmers in multitude or even 1v1ing on point. This is bad. This causes stagnation.

Survival wise. I have seen multiple 1v1 dueling mesmers who focus on duels that literally have an impenetrable rotation. With dazes invurns teleports and a lazerpoint focus on dodgerolls to mitigate the remaining damage before he can do the rotate again. Whilst every daze that hits, opens up a potential burst from the mesmer. And the only openings you get are dodging the key dazes to do some counter damage wich are just not enough to burst down the mesmer intime since they dont have the lowest health.

What i ussually talk about when discussing mesmers is bringing up my own playstyle, fresh air.

If i compare the defences of a mesmer to the defences of fresh air, mesmer beats fresh air hands down. You could say stealth alone makes this possible. But in reality its the option to 1 shot spike a marauder class in a second. Versus the 4 second invurnerable an ele has access to on focus (when traited) on 33sec. The only other sustain fresh air has is blind spam. See the difference in utility? Fresh air has a lower base healthpool added to that. If i compare the cooldowns and active defences of a mesmer versus a fresh air you could say fresh air has an uptime of 70/80% defences, mesmer has close to 90%+ If traited.

If mesmer would have a delay ,inbetween skills, cast time on the burst the entire idea of instant spiking from stealth would be fixed. Because counterplays are possible. Just like thiefs are in atm, They burst a rediculous amount from stealth versus marauder, but if you react before the next finishing blow hits, you can blind him and force him to back off with your own spike because he has low health unlike mesmer.

Damagewise, sustain and raw burst DPS is around 30% higher then scepter fresh air.

If you want people like me (s/f QQ eles) to stop QQ, get an actuall scepter buff in for us, i know with our powers combined as the mages of gw2 we could make the world tremble. But as it stands now fighting a mesmer 1v1 as a fresh air is simply unfair.

Shatter Mesmer hard-counters Fresh Air Ele (due to the single-target nature of Ele Scepter against stealthy opponent) and Mesmer GS penetrate Focus projectile defense.

Having agreed with you on this point. However, this is NOT indicative of your initial statement “Mesmer is OP”.

Hard counters to certain builds exist in this game and its a natural thing. Most obvious reason: just look at our love/hate relationship with thieves.

I will enjoy playing Fresh Air Tempest knowing my build weakness against Shatter Mesmer and try to adapt my playstyle, focusing on more team support and my role in a team fight (where it matters), rather than getting sore and all losing 1v1 with against hard counter build.

As long as the solar beam is shot from the staff and not the caster’s hand, I’m fine with whatever stance.

tii.7192:

Are phantasms attack frequencies affected by alacrity ?

Yes
/15char

Silverkey.2078:

If a thief steals on a chronomancer, it gets alacrity :p

I guess your point is that it does not matter as much for them, but they still have cooldowns (utilitities+F1) so I still disagree

Alacrity on thief also quickens the initiative regen as a bonus.
/sarcasm

Korusef.3714:

There is already Mesmer clone mob squad ready to whine the first time some other class gets Alacrity

It won’t happen. My chronomancer guild Defenders of Continua [DC] (in an alternative timeline) will do our best to prevent the power of time manipulation falling into the wrong hands.

This is something I will test out link to build

iDuelist is on a very low CD and can help with the constant bleed pressure and should work great with Chronophantasma gm trait.

Fay.2357:

feight.2704:

There are efficient build without duelling or chrono.
manipulation/signet -> good.

You can’t make a build around manips, and signets are highly questionable without dueling. If you really think you can, then by all means post these builds you’re referencing so we can discuss them.

Pyro, please explain what u mean “signets are highly questionable without Dueling line”.
I can’t see the connection, given Dueling traits have nothing to do with signets.

Condi Chrono, back in the first BWE, was actually pretty strong, overtuned in fact with the old Illusionary Reversion allowing you to shatter back-to-back to keep stacking confusion/torment.

Consequently, this trait has now been nerfed to have an extra requirement (at least 2 illusions shattered to regain a clone).

Having said all that, I do believe, condi chrono is still a solid idea. With a bit of experimenting and finetuning, it might work out given all the recent/upcoming changes to chronomancer.

Here are some of my thoughts:

Furious Interruption should be at adept tier, then it would see use a whole lot more.
You either pick CS for more preemptive offensive playstyle, or FI that favors more reactive counterplay.

Rending Shatter should be just downgraded to adept minor given its weak effect, make sense to just merge it with Illusion of Vulnerability.

I’m surprised no one mentioned Blurred Inscriptions yet. This trait on its own, is quite powerful, but the problem I see here is the total lack of synergy. Sig of Dom and Midnight have great synergy in a condi build, yet the Dom line offers nothing for condi, so it would make sense to move this into Illusions line, perhaps switch with Shattered Strength?

Shattered Strength and Imagined Burden would then have good synergy in a build u want to stack might easily and just “dominate” enemies???

Blurred Inscriptions in Illusions would offer more active defense/condi cleanse for condi build without the need to run with traited Torch offhand.

I want tsunami
/15char

EremiteAngel.9765:

i thought mantra of pain casting was instant…you can hear the sound and dodge in time?

also what is a good time to use mantra of pain?

Mantra of Pain is indeed instant, if you hear the sound, chances are you ’re already got hit by it. However, u can prepare to dodge the next hit(s) since like others have said, most users just mindlessly spam all the charges in the row to frontload the dmg in a single burst.

I personally use MoP in sync with Mind Wrack shatter combo but always reserve 1 charge left in case the target getting away and out of melee range (don’t underestimate the 1200 reach of MoP).

Also, u said u haven’t been keeping up… how do you know mesmers are indeed OP in this meta or not?

This is coming from someone who enjoys playing CC & support in all 3 game modes.

Back in BWE2
Gravity > Calamity >> Eternity > Action > Recall > Precognition

From the recent BWE3
Precognition > Gravity > Calamity > Eternity > Recall > Action

Gravity and Calamity easily secure their places at the top end due to their dmg and CC nature. However, Precog went from being the worst (very clunky to use to its max potential) to the best (build-defining) with the blur on pulse change.

Changes to other wells have also improved them and brought them in close order of competition. Compared to BWE2 versions, Eternity, Recall and Action are much better now and each is worth a utility slot in certain builds.

Hi guys,

In my desperate attempt to make Pistol offhand work in a Chrono condi build, I instead stumbled upon an interesting concept/technique that I want to share with you all about the use of Continuum Split/Shift (CS). I’m sure many before me have thought and done this similar thing but I just want to help spread the knowledge.

This is the build I was using when I came up with the technique: Confusion Overloader

So here’s the technique that I shall call FEINT ATTACK

At 1200 range, cast iDuelist —> swap to Staff --> iWarlock —> Phase Retreat.

Now you have all 3 illusions out, 2 phantasms and a clone. Activate CS for a full 6s rifting time. Your rift is most likely safe and sound, being out of reach (~1500 range) or even better on an elevated out of sight/reach area (if you know all the Phase Retreat spots in PvP maps, I don’t know them all sadly)

Because of the chosen traits, you maintain your previous 2 phantasms and get another clone out. So you’re ready to engage the fight with a full set of illusions at your disposal. Blink into the fight and just go on full offensive but remember if you go into downed state, you’re screwed, so don’t overdo it)

I find this is a very interesting way to make use of CS, allow you to scout the fight before committing to it. Many PvP matches I did, I was just purely trying to experiment and practice this technique and nothing else (this is unranked ofc as I didn’t bother playing properly to win the matches).

More often, say, you arrive at a group fight, you’re not sure if your team is winning or losing thus you’re not ready to commit to this fight. This is a good reason to use this Feint Attack.

To unaware opponents (most of them would be), they will just fight you as per normal, frontload all the key skills (dmg, cc, etc.) as you scout the situation. Then, bam, you reset and now you can go in for a 2nd time knowing your opponents have exhausted their powerful resources OR you can just disengage and leave the fight if things not going your way.

So lets hear it from others. Please scrutinize, discuss, and share your own experience with our awesome Continuum Shift.

Ross Biddle.2367:

keenlam.4753:

First of all, Continuum Shift is very COMPLEX skill/mechanic. I remember, not sure if it was Ross Biddle or anyone else, created a whole thread dedicated to explain all the stuff about it for us mesmers. Imagine an average player who doesn’t even main mesmers and not willing to spend much time learning about it. So here lies the problem I think. Other new stuff other elite specs got are by far more straightforward.

As for your 2nd point, a lot of us have taken the blame on Alacrity thus far. I keep my neutral stance atm since everything is still changing like crazy… cough Gravity Well… cough.

Wasn’t me. I’ve only been in BW3.

My bad. I looked it up again. It was Necrotize. Here’s the link to that thread. There might be some minor changes since it was from BWE1 I believe.

First of all, Continuum Shift is very COMPLEX skill/mechanic. I remember, not sure if it was Ross Biddle or anyone else, created a whole thread dedicated to explain all the stuff about it for us mesmers. Imagine an average player who doesn’t even main mesmers and not willing to spend much time learning about it. So here lies the problem I think. Other new stuff other elite specs got are by far more straightforward.

As for your 2nd point, a lot of us have taken the blame on Alacrity thus far. I keep my neutral stance atm since everything is still changing like crazy… cough Gravity Well… cough.

When u want to run the following archetype spec instead?
1. PU Condi (Duel/Chaos/Illu)
2. Selfish Highest Burst Dmg (Dom/Duel/Illu)

I am among the minority thinking elite specs in the long-term are actually both horizontal and vertical (diagonal???) progression for the base class.

Say in the long run, we have 3-4 elite specs to choose from. Players will end up leveling as a mesmer, knowing enough about the core class but the end-game is to specialize.

Remember the old times when Anet said Chrono gets OH shield but also something amazing to compensate while other elite classes get new shiny 2h weapon???
So if we treat this statement as a rule of thumb.

Lets rewind the clock … to look at the class main mechanics of each profession (associated with F keys) as they were revealed, shall we?

Chronomancer (got OH)- retain all shatters, get a new shatter (no trade-off, got bonus stuff)

Dragonhunter (got 2H)- virtues replaced by new version (forced trade-off)

Reaper (got 2H)- death shroud replaced by reaper shroud (forced trade-off)

Herald (got OH)- Glint to be replaced one of 2 legends (trade-off, but optional, u might choose not to equip Glint as a Herald)

Tempest (got OH)- retain all attunements, overloads added (no trade-off, got bonus stuff)

Berserker (got OH)- berserker mode added on top of normal adrenaline mechanic (no trade-off)

Daredevil (got 2H)- no change to Steal mechanic (no trade-off)

Scrapper (got 2H)- no change to Toolbelt mechanic (no trade-off)

Druid (got 2H)- no change to Pet commands, added Celestial Avatar form (no trade-off, got bonus stuff)

So the rule of thumb breaks down when we get to the last 3 elite specs (thief, engy, and ranger), especially Druid gets 2H and bonus stuff for their main mechanic.
Does this mean the druid is completely OP and top of the food chain now? Not really.
Quantity wise, it looks unfair but the fact is, balance is more about quality.

Both Reaper and Dragonhunter got a forced trade-off but ended up totally opposite atm. Reaper is one of the best (if not the best) designed elite, while Dragonhunter still has a long way to go and needs lots of work to “please the crowd”.

tl;dr Number of new skills/toys doesn’t dictate how better a particular elite spec is compared to others. It’s their quality and synergy with the base class itself that plays a more decisive role.

As for why Chronomancer feels much stronger than baseline Mesmer?
Sorry my friend, this is just an illusion. Why?

Chronomancer delivers us quite a bag of new unique tricks that our enemies haven’t adapted to yet (Continuum Shift surely one of them). Same can be said to other elite specs I guess but mesmers have been all about misdirection and frankly arguably the least noob-friendly class to fight against.

After all, people have learned to fight as/against mesmers for 3 years. Chronomancers have just been … like a few months???

@Silverkey: even though your vid gave me such a headache, I still vote for you. +1 for the extra effort and creativity.

Silverkey.2078:

I think they may have to nerf the alacrity on shatter for PvP or at least change the minor trait to a major so that it does not come for free.

I disagree, the whole elite spec is based around Alacrity, its the unique mechanic. It should stay baseline for all Chronomancers to enjoy.

About nerfing it, no. Alacrity shines most when it comes to long attrition fight where u can accumulatively gain the upper hand through faster skill recharges over time and requires you to keep a good shatter cadence, this means its good for bunker or tanky condition specs but not necessarily for burst specs where u can just frontload dmg, kill and disengage.

Up until this point in the game, bunker and condi spec mesmers are not a thing yet. Chronomancer might finally deliver us those two types of builds in viable form. So how about let it all play out first before suggesting nerfs?

This thread wins the internet. So much awesomeness.
And greetings to all the devs.

Celtus.8456:

They’re just gonna keep adding kitten to the overloads until people like tempest. The tooltip already takes up half my kitten screen, keep it up!

Lol so true

Our Robert Gee did specifically mention about the change to SoI to not affect F5 due to the reason it would otherwise have allowed quadruple casting powerful skills that is way too hard to balance. xD

DevilsVice.5801:

Did Anet forget when they launched GW2 that one of their primary claims to fame was removing the “MMO Holy Trinity” of Tank, DPS, Healer?

Or did that concept go out the window somewhere and I missed it?

This is a common misconception. From the start of the game, Anet’s vision was to replace the MMO Holy Trinity (hard trinity – tank, dps, healer) with their own “Soft Trinity” DPS, Support, Tank. With Support includes both offensive (crowd control, snare, debilitating conditions, etc.) and defensive (heal, block, reflect, etc.)

Professions/Classes are not locked into a certain role but rather you can customize your build to perform certain roles better than others.

While this trinity somewhat exists in PvP and WvW (GvG fight with frontline and backline formations), in PvE it totally fell short as current PvE contents are badly designed to favor DPS DPS DPS.

So Anet is trying hard to address this in the upcoming expansion to restore “the balance”. I guess we’ll just have to wait and see.

Ehecatl.9172:

The thing about the GW1 druids is that we know next to nothing about their practices, rituals, or magic. All we know is their ultimate fate of becoming one with Maguuma.

Beyond that we don’t know what sort of magic they had. Were they rangers? Were they monks who worshiped Melandru? Shoot, for all we know they could’ve been necromancers.

Now we have a general idea. Like druids in real life and several other fantasy settings they used magic that reflected their view of nature. Contrary to what most people think “nature” is not limited to Earth/Tyria. Nature is all that exists naturally, which includes the sun, moon, and stars and all the celestial bodies of the universe.

Historic druids paid close attention to the celestial bodies. They watched and charted the stars and kept track of important celestial events like the equinox which was considered a deeply spiritual event. Druids in Tyria seem to have had a similar reverence for the world beyond ours and used it’s power to help defend Maguuma. And as they grew more and more powerful with the celestial magic of nature they finally reached a point where their mortal bodies were no longer useful and shed them, becoming spirits of nature.

Wow… you are like the living incarnate of Wikipedia xD
Have you gained your own celestial form yet?

PU nerf is justified but what about the Pledge then?

@Pink Ninja Man: unblockable will bypass reflect. This is a well-known fact in PvP. However, in PvE there are bosses that can “block” anything, just some very few exceptions.

Wuselknusel.4082:

I want a T-Rex. And I want that T-Rex to kick kitten .

Is it what i think it is in the background?
One can dream… right?

They took away the unblockabe buff sharing on mesmer’s well of precognition skill. I’d love to see druid gets this unique support in some way instead.

MailMail.6534:

While this is annoying, I think it’s fine as this provides a drawback to an otherwise extremely powerful trait. Having distortion for 3 seconds for your entire team means that you should be timing it to either outright win a fight or get out of losing a fight.

For those Inspiration Mesmers, you need to time your distortions wisely and weigh the cost benefit of using it. I’d consider this a very balanced trait.

Inspiring distortion only grants 1s distortion to allies. Having said that, i agree this trait is good as is, very unique support (only mesmer and ele can give allies invulnerability atm). But we mesmers will get better with this type of support with well of precog, cant wait.

The only saving grace for our utility phantasms is to shorten the cast time to 1s, to be consistent with weapon phantasms and also…

In my opinion, instead of bolstering the defensive aspect to match with Bulwark Gyro/Purge Gyro… Anet can take an alternative path to distinguish our phantasms by significantly increase their damage output (like they did with iCap) so they have a good balance between offense and defense.

iDisenchanter already has some offense with boonstrip but more dmg would be nice.

NapTooN.6283:

Adamantium.3682:

NapTooN.6283:

Frightlight.3796:

NapTooN.6283:

Frightlight.3796:

Technophile would have been glorious

yep, having sex with Scarlet’s Steam Creatures sounds totally glorious.

You should probably look up the meaning of technophile

I know the meaning of necrophilia and pedophilia, so it is not far fetched to put technophilia into the same category. But to let you sleep well tonight, it was meant as a joke but of course someone had to play the srsbsns-card.

-phile is not the same as -philia.

By my understanding (i am not a native Englishman) Philia is the General Noun for the whole phenomenon while phile is either the adjective or the Person itself. Example in a sentence:

Bob is a necrophile (adjective) Necrophile (Person) who shows interest in Necrophilia (Phenomenon).

Sorry, but it was a bad joke and very offensive. Also you so far still dont seem to understand what technophile/technophilia means.

Scrapper actually has another meaning apart from the obvious one referring to someone who deals with scraps.

Scrapper means a fighter, a fierce, aggressive competitor (source: http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/scrapper). This somewhat conveys the melee, in the face aggression this elite class is going for… i guess.

Btw, Forge is a terrible name, not even a valid name since it does not refer to a person/profession.

Forger or Forgemaster, on the other hand, could have been a fancy name for this elite spec… oh well.

Rozbuska.5263:

Oh it sounds so cool cant wait:-) Also Scrapper is perfect name if you dont like it go home:-)

Scrapper is actually a pretty smart name imo… It’s clearly a wordplay from the devs since the word has 2 distinct meanings, both fitting for this new elite specialization.
1- someone who deals with scraps (scrap metals i assume)
2- a fierce fighter/competitor

Silverkey.2078:

Good news, interrupt will soon work (again) in PvE. You won’t really interrupt, but you will get your interrupt traits.

Source?

/15char

iWarlock attack doubles the duration of all conditions currently on target. Self-synergy

I try to keep my feedback brief and this is based entirely on my Fresh Air burst build for tempest which I played in both PvE and PvP environments.

I didn’t use Warhorn, its simply too slow and dont provide enough damage pressure for either offensive or defensive purposes so I used Focus mainly.

I was pleasantly surprised by how good the new shout heal was.

For me, the 2 major changes that could allow Tempest to feel more naturally and less clunky for Elementalists who are so used to “Attunement Dancing”:

• Allow switching attunement while overloading without self-interrupt.
• Charge up time for overload reduced from 5s to 3s.

These 2 changes would open up a new playstyle for Tempest by allowing “chaining different Overloads” making the class a bit less predictable and generally more fun as u can perform certain combos/rotations with fields and finishers like normal Eles do.

Precog and Recall can use some serious cd reduction to make them competitive choices over Calamity and Action in certain builds.

Ganathar.4956:

Azaruil.3406:

They should swap the new mesmer elite with the new elementalist elite. Cooldown reduction fits quite well with the whole chronomancer thing anyways.

I don’t think any elite spec deserves getting such a terrible elite skill.

Amen to this.

How about after activating Rebound, your next interrupted skill is “rebounded” and has 50% shorter recharge time? The effect can be shared to allies as well as shout = group support for tempest.

I always wanted Null Field to be something like this skill (from an MMO i played in the past), basically removing hostile AoEs and further preventing enemy’s AoEs for a short period of time.

Just my 2c.

What if Rending Shatter (Domination line) is merged into Maim the Disillusioned (Illusions line). Apparently, we will not get the old MtD back (2 torment stacks per clone), so maybe it can use a differnt kind of buff like apply 1 stack of torment and vulnerability per clone at same time?

Rending Shatter on its own is VERY VERY WEAK, comparing to Confounding Suggestions… what a joke!!!

This ofc will free up 1 adept slot in Domination line and here we can put in a some sort of defensive clone generation trait if we stick with the general rule when picking a trait occupying same tier (dmg, control, or defensive).

How about when you get cc’d, automatically use Mirror Images to stunbreak and get 2 clones out. ICD is same as the utility skill itself?

Curunen.8729:

NICENIKESHOE.7128:

Robert can we add new functionality to Master of Fragmentation? Something like activating shatter creates a blast finisher on mesmer himself, kind of fits the name as well.

With IP being baselined, power mesmers are reluctant to pick Illusion traitline because Master of Fragmentation offers less than other traitlines’ GM traits. Illusion is offering too little for power mesmers, most power mesmers who do choose this line are picking it for shatter CD.

While condition mesmers mainly pick this line, they will pick ineptitude any time of the day.

This is a great idea – even if it was only Mind Wrack which was enhanced to a blast finisher with Master of Fragmentation (I mean the 10% extra crit chance is pretty… mediocre), and leave the enhancements of the rest (cripple, aoe daze and reflect) the same.

I second this. Master of Fragmentation can improve F1 to be a blast finisher (maybe just the mesmer IP is blast finisher, other illusions shattered dont count).

I think its fair that if you dont want mesmers to readily have access to blast finishers like other classes, you can still give them but lock behind certain trait to force people spec for it.

LughLongArm.5460:

Good chance that the damage from Evasion Runes will also ruin your dodge stealth combo. Its same with ranger remorseless builds, this rune set just doesn’t go well with anything.

Yep, the runes need to be reworked so it works like Heartseeker, dmg proc first then leap finisher procs after so you dont get Revealed.

Jski.6180:

AoE stun brakes for pt.
Shout auras or activation aoe auras that also have a doable effect (just 2 of them ice and earth).
CDR for pt.
Aura application also heals.
Self protection can be up to 40% dmg reductionist from the old 33%.
Moving water field.
Moving pull in.
Fire Tornado that keeps putting out effects (maybe not that new).
Making boons last longer after they have been applied.
RNG projectiles stand storms that move and hit as they go.
An ball lighting attk that act like a pet for a short time when it moves in a stare line attking what gets near it.
A brake bar (some what new mostly ele only new).
A fire field that “moves” after its cast for its duration.
I am not sure if aoe super speed is new.

Thanks for your reply. It seems I did indeed overlook certain new features that Tempest boasts.
I guess I should correct myself when I say Tempest doesn’t bring much new stuff to the game, I really meant something game-changing, something to boast about. But its good to hear some valid counter arguments.

So lets go through your list (I tidy it up for you) one by one.
- AoE stunbreak: is not new. Guardian has been able to do it thru a gm trait (http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Indomitable_Courage) with their F3 Virtue. However, Tempest might be able to compete in this role.
- CDR for party: to be fair, yes this is indeed new, but not unique to Tempest and the way it works is very clunky.
- Aurasharing and other related features: ok, I overlooked the aura stuff. Auras are kinda unique to Elementalists, and Tempest will be able to utilize them even further, for example: group application and heal on application. Hopefully auramancers can become a thing with Tempest’s tools.
- Protection boon improved: I totally forgot this one. Yes, this one I give total credit for a new and unique toy Tempest has xD. I’ll be using/abusing this trait a whole lot for sure.
- Boon duration increase after application: this one I’m sceptical. Say if you’re switching to weapons/gear that has +boon duration stat on them, would you then increase the duration of existing boons on you? If the answer is no, then I acknowledge this one.
- Moving water field: acknowledged in my OP.
- Moving AoE that CC multiple targets as it travels: ok, this one is legit but the last time I used it, it’s not very effective, must be why I forgot about it. Haha
- Fire Tornado: the lingering tornado after overload is just a weaker version of your Tornado Elite. The overloading animation is similar to Thief’s Daggerstorm. Not new.
- Dust Storm and Lightning Orb: these warhorn skills do indeed feature new mechanics in their attack animations. But again, their impact remains questionable. We shall see in the next upcoming BWE after some number buffs have been made since the first BWE.
- Break bar: not unique to Tempest at all.
- A cascading Fire Field: this skill clearly uses the same tech as Revenant’s Brick Road skill. You can argue that its unique to Tempest because it’s a Fire field instead of a Lightning Field. But the difference is not that much.
- AoE Superspeed: the AoE application is new, but Superspeed is getting more prevalent among other classes now so it doesn’t stand out as something super unique. It’s a similar to the situation where Guardian can give out AoE Aegis but other classes already have blocks on their own. Not to disregard its usefulness though.

So to sum it up,
Most of the new techs Tempest has are related to the warhorn skills and Aura-related stuff.

But apart from the improved Protection boon, somehow I’m not so thrilled about the rest.

I would like to hear more opinions from you guys. Are these new toys (no how matter potent they are) inspiring for u to try out Tempest, to use Warhorn, or to try an Aura-focused build?

AikijinX.6258:

We’re Thieves we stole the mechanic.

Just like we stole the rangers block and retaliate skill, and warriors damage on dodge skill.

we steal, it’s built into our name.

On a side note, first time actually posting anything in mesmer thread let alone looking at you guys. Just wanted to see the different classes reactions to daredevil. Mainly the tears <3 i love the tears ____

I’m gonna enjoy playing an interrupt daredevil with pistol offhand and this throwing dagger thingy. xD

Hi guys,

First of all, while ele is not my main, its the class I enjoy 2nd most (after mesmer).
And seeing how Tempest turned out to be the most underwhelming elite spec revealed so far imo, I guess its my time to rant. There are several threads about this already. But I want to focus on a particular topic as stated in the title.

TEMPEST BRINGS ANYTHING NEW TO THE GAME?

Let me see… nothing.. much. Ok, a moving water field on Warhorn #5 (Water) that might not be not as effective as a stationary long-lasting one.

And let’s not talk about the horrible elite which is a gimmicky copy of Chronomancer’s unique ability to speed up skill recharges.

Let’s review what unique new toys other elite specs bring so far to the game:

- Chronomancer: Alacrity, the ability to speed up skill recharges for themselves and allies around them

- Dragonhunter: F3 Virtue – a group wide frontal blocking shield that moves with the character. Do not confuse this improved F3 virtue with already existing projectile blocking skills. This shield will protect you and allies against both ranged and melee attacks.

- Reaper: Chill condition deals dmg, ok this mechanic is strictly selfish but it does give necromancers back the respect of having great mastery over conditions.

-Revenant/Herald: is an entirely new class with ability to swap the 2nd half of the skillbar, meanwhile Herald provides the 3rd and arguably best method to counter stealth in their skillset (in addition to Ranger’s Sic’Em and Engineer’s Analyze).

- Berserker: launch an enemy to push back nearby enemies. Yep, totally new and awesome tech.

- Daredevil: The elite skill that finishes off enemies. Need I say more?

Also note that all these new and unique mechanics mentioned above compliment the core class very well… giving the ‘oomph’ or ‘wow’ factor when its revealed to us.

Mesmer: skill cooldown manipulation (namely Power Block and Interrupt mechanic in general)
Reaper: threatening conditions
Warrior: hard chaining CCs
Guardian: protect allies through Blocking
Thief: eliminate foes, ending the fight as quickly as possible

Don’t get me wrong. The overload concept is really interesting and it somewhat conveys the “Tempest” violent and wild feel of being a powerful ‘stormcaller’.
However, the implementation can use some tweaking to make it more impact, especially towards damage and offensive support imo.

However, it might be a bit too late for the devs to introduce anything completely new to Tempest now, probably just certain tweaks in numbers. Hopefully, I will be proven wrong.

My suggestions regarding new toys Tempest could have:

1] Homing AoEs: The tech clearly exists (those bee swarm AoEs casted by Mordrem Trolls that follow u and can deal tons of damage? Remember those?)

The class is already known for the capability to provide plenty of AoE dmg fields. But the idea to give it the ability to cast AoEs on the ground, then make them move and track down enemies? That would be so awesome.

2] “Rebound!” saving grace: change the functionality of this elite to:
After activation, during the next 15s, your first interrupted skill will have 50% cooldown reduction. This could totally work for allies too.

Remember just the first skill being interrupted to keep it balanced ofc.
This could work as a counterplay for mesmers using Power Block or the new Daredevil using Distracting Daggers, ultimately spice things up further in combat.

So lets hear u guys opinions on this. Did I miss something unique (some combat mechanic) about Tempest that not already existing in the game?

Robert Gee.9246:

Silverkey.2078:

It just seems they don’t want this trait to work

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/info/updates/Game-Update-Notes-August-25-2015

There are a lot of bugs in the game and often times there are enough that we can’t get to all of them as fast as we would like. Duelist Discipline not applying to Pistol 4 didn’t get into my queue until after the cutoff date for changes to the 8/25 build. I’ve got it fixed for a future release though.

This just made my day. Thank you, Robert Gee-sus.

so The Pledge working as intended? /sarcasm