Guild Wars 2

Gope.4319:

For the people that never pass through educational grade two.
Educational : relating to the provision of education.
Grade : a particular level of rank, quality, proficiency, or value.
1. I never got gems for any thing in the past 2 years.
2. First I got the green quaggan backpack on 08/01/2014 then i got my first gems on 11/01/2014.Except your welling to tell me that the support can see in to the future.Then no i didn’t get it for buying gems.
3.I got it for the words : I want to play a game that i have fun with ! Not a day job that i paid for !
Also : in addition; too.
That was on 08/01/2014.Also i got it because many agreed with my words.
4.Also i said that if they don’t stop using this paywall system.I will sue them for insult,not delivering on what is on the box,scam practice and not revealing their business practices to their customers.Something that most people are protected from no matter what is the product.
Buy a kitten dictionary.

I love how this posts goes on about education and not getting past second grade AND THEN follows with a plethora of spelling and grammar mistakes.

+1 , made my night.

thefantasticg.3984:

Mokah… You must be new here because they have a history of bringing things down to match instead of lifting things up to match.

A dev has already said they’d rather change the preception of something than actually improve it. That’s why the ranger shortbow got nerfed to make the longbow look better by comparison. That is fact. That is history. That was done. That was not the only case of it either. There is no reason to believe they won’t bring down Zerkers instead of bringing up other types of builds due to past history… So, I repeat, you must be new here.

Truth +1

LoopySnoopy.7923:

Just herd back from support seems to be a bug after all which is a shame as this small QOL item would help make friends and build bridges.. What harm would this do to turn it in to a regular merchant so my friends can use…?

They wouldn’t be able to sell more of them then.

Go Esports, Yay!!!

Alukah.2063:

MRA.4758:

And no, this is not a “personal problem” as some disparaging comments above tried to imply, this is a matter of game design.

A game design problem that is only a problem for you and OP.

Yeah, still looks like a personal problem.

This game is not developed based on your or OP’s vision of a what a game should be and you will have to live with that, design your own game if it bothers you that much.

Exactly how many people agreeing with the OP would it take to not make it a personal problem?

Perhaps the posters who dislike the OP’s post have the personal problem instead?

Is it a question of metrics? Should people who have a suggestion that do not line up with others preferences never post an idea?

We’ve seen where the current meta leads, and it isn’t dynamic or good for the game.

It is good for people who just want to get their stuff and get on with other things, and that’s a whole other problem with the game about concentrating rewards into farmable events or quickly respawning enemy types.

The zerg trains are and always will be just as harmful to the game as bots.

Shufflepants.9785:

What is CaramellDansen?
What is DE?
I assume 2D means two dimensional?
What in the world are you talking about?

http://knowyourmeme.com/memes/caramelldansen

2d is 2 dimensional, like the vid linked above

DE is Destiny’s Edge

Weeaboo stuff.

What would be really nice is if there were different Legendary skins for the different modes, only obtainable from those modes……..nah, that actually seems like too much work to put into the game for anyone to actually do, right?

More Scarlet Briar please!!!

Anet likes it like this. They want to make the world feel like a mechanized soulless factory where the zerg rules all. The world isn’t dynamic and was never intended to be.

I’ve been preaching about randomizing event location and times for what seems like forever.The devs don’t want it, and the zombies wouldn’t know what to do with themselves.

Good luck though. As box sales continue to drop, and new player retention keeps dropping, maybe they will figure out the event system is broken eventually.

Devata.6589:

killcannon.2576:

Devata.6589:

killcannon.2576:

Latinkuro.9420:

killcannon.2576:

darkace.8925:

killcannon.2576:

To the actual MMO crowd? It is a good thing.

How so? Where is your source citing the developers statement that the implementation of a subscription fee would mean a shift away from gem shop-driven design or fully-polished content rather than bite-sized filler Living Story content?

The sub itself is used as a mechanic to get people to login in other sub based MMO’s.

I assume you have played a sub based MMO? The payment models define the gameplay.

- this thing is clearly for the chinese market
- since gw2 doesn’t have sub it has time gating !
- Theoritically speaking, if paying this VIP thing removes the time gating I would gladly pay it otherwise NO thank you

Not sure if it’s for the Chinese market or not, I fully expect that GW2 will never see a full release in China. Even if it is, it will be so far removed from Western GW2 it may as well be an entirely different game.

Correct, time gating and large amounts of rng replace some of the draw of logging in that a sub based game creates from it’s payment model. Not saying sub based games don’t have those, they are just drastically reduced.

I see it as the first step towards a true hybrid model, and hopefully much less reliance on rng systems and the gem store than for those who choose not to subscribe to it, or purchase it.

The model GW1 had.. Expansion based income was that perfect ‘hybrid’ model.

In a way buying the expansion is then the same as paying a subscription but in stead of buying it for a month you pay for the content and added content ever year / year and a half. The game company can expect a pretty regular income and the player has no time above has head or game-play effected by it’s cash-shop because the design does not have to stimulate cash-sales.

I would have bought that, and I think that would have been a perfectly feasible way to monetize the game to an extent. They would still need time gating and a heavy reliance on rng to make people log in every day though, in order to populate the zones. Something GW1 didn’t have to worry as much about considering it’s mechanics and zone wide instancing.

Not more as a sub-based MMO. Maybe even less because while in a MMO the fact that you payed money might be a reason to log in today and tomorrow but there mus also be a reason to log in the day after you month ended. Of course GW2 would have a similar thing as they would need to keep people interested in buying the new expansion. So overall I think it’s similar to sub-based game.

Besides some RNG is not bad, it’s even needed. An ‘required’ endless grind is bad.

Yep, you need rng to some extent in any MMO.

Some of the things that keep trinity sub based game players logging in is:

1. “The guild needs me!” If you’re the main tank, a crucial dps, or were a good healer you feel a need to be there for your friends and guildies. Here, they just get someone else because there are few important roles to actually fill and PvE or WvW encounters generally boil down to stack and blast finishers. PvE content is also generally tougher to complete without people knowing their roles and the mechanics of the encounter. Everything is better when you don’t have to pug. Stable roles play a huge part in making players feel needed in game.

2. The sub…don’t want to “waste” that money.

3. Progression- don’t want to fall behind….not really as much of a driving force as players on these forums make it out to be. You can generally get BiS in a couple months, even if you’re a brand new player. Not so much in GW2.

4. The shinies!! Mounts, tabards, crafting, fishing, rep, cosmetics, grinding for super rare items. Generally all horizontal progression stuff.

5. SOOOOOO much content. Generally always something to do. GW2 would also have this if they hadn’t gone the road of temp content to make players want to log in or they would feel like they were missing “The next,huge, amazing LS event”. Still makes me chuckle.

Devata.6589:

killcannon.2576:

Latinkuro.9420:

killcannon.2576:

darkace.8925:

killcannon.2576:

To the actual MMO crowd? It is a good thing.

How so? Where is your source citing the developers statement that the implementation of a subscription fee would mean a shift away from gem shop-driven design or fully-polished content rather than bite-sized filler Living Story content?

The sub itself is used as a mechanic to get people to login in other sub based MMO’s.

I assume you have played a sub based MMO? The payment models define the gameplay.

- this thing is clearly for the chinese market
- since gw2 doesn’t have sub it has time gating !
- Theoritically speaking, if paying this VIP thing removes the time gating I would gladly pay it otherwise NO thank you

Not sure if it’s for the Chinese market or not, I fully expect that GW2 will never see a full release in China. Even if it is, it will be so far removed from Western GW2 it may as well be an entirely different game.

Correct, time gating and large amounts of rng replace some of the draw of logging in that a sub based game creates from it’s payment model. Not saying sub based games don’t have those, they are just drastically reduced.

I see it as the first step towards a true hybrid model, and hopefully much less reliance on rng systems and the gem store than for those who choose not to subscribe to it, or purchase it.

The model GW1 had.. Expansion based income was that perfect ‘hybrid’ model.

In a way buying the expansion is then the same as paying a subscription but in stead of buying it for a month you pay for the content and added content ever year / year and a half. The game company can expect a pretty regular income and the player has no time above has head or game-play effected by it’s cash-shop because the design does not have to stimulate cash-sales.

I would have bought that, and I think that would have been a perfectly feasible way to monetize the game to an extent. They would still need time gating and a heavy reliance on rng to make people log in every day though, in order to populate the zones. Something GW1 didn’t have to worry as much about considering it’s mechanics and zone wide instancing.

Latinkuro.9420:

killcannon.2576:

darkace.8925:

killcannon.2576:

To the actual MMO crowd? It is a good thing.

How so? Where is your source citing the developers statement that the implementation of a subscription fee would mean a shift away from gem shop-driven design or fully-polished content rather than bite-sized filler Living Story content?

The sub itself is used as a mechanic to get people to login in other sub based MMO’s.

I assume you have played a sub based MMO? The payment models define the gameplay.

- this thing is clearly for the chinese market
- since gw2 doesn’t have sub it has time gating !
- Theoritically speaking, if paying this VIP thing removes the time gating I would gladly pay it otherwise NO thank you

Not sure if it’s for the Chinese market or not, I fully expect that GW2 will never see a full release in China. Even if it is, it will be so far removed from Western GW2 it may as well be an entirely different game.

Correct, time gating and large amounts of rng replace some of the draw of logging in that a sub based game creates from it’s payment model. Not saying sub based games don’t have those, they are just drastically reduced.

I see it as the first step towards a true hybrid model, and hopefully much less reliance on rng systems and the gem store than for those who choose not to subscribe to it, or purchase it.

darkace.8925:

killcannon.2576:

Sub based and hybrid model MMO’s have a significantly larger player base and income than either f2p or b2p models.

Absolutely false.

lol, sorry. Tis true. You can add together every single non hybrid f2p and b2p MMO’s income and players and it wouldn’t even top WoW’s, not to mention if you add on DCUO, Rift, SWTOR, and the myriad others. Hybrid model is quickly becoming the standard, and will most likely be what all western MMO’s switch to over time. F2P and B2P will never disappear, but they draw an entirely different crowd due to the mechanics on offer in those payment models.

The mistake that so many make is that they think an Eastern based MMO system will work in the west, and it simply doesn’t. It all just depends on where you are.

darkace.8925:

killcannon.2576:

To the actual MMO crowd? It is a good thing.

How so? Where is your source citing the developers statement that the implementation of a subscription fee would mean a shift away from gem shop-driven design or fully-polished content rather than bite-sized filler Living Story content?

The sub itself is used as a mechanic to get people to login in other sub based MMO’s.

I assume you have played a sub based MMO? The payment models define the gameplay.

darkace.8925:

lordkrall.7241:

Why assume they didn’t just add it in there as a joke? They are fully aware that people are actively data-mining everything after all and it would seem quite silly to add something like this to the dat-file without even talking about it first.

Why on earth would you, or anyone else, assume this is a joke? What’s the more likely scenario here: that they would be so tactless to pretend to be adding something that would so greatly upset a very large number of their customers? Or that this is actually something they’re considering/have decided to add to the game?

killcannon.2576:

And your only point that I can see was that you were quitting because someone else may choose to pay a fee for some nebulous benefits that would not change your experience at all.

More power to you.

I’ll remember you said that when you, Vayne, Smooth Penguin, and Volkron are the only people left playing the game. You four might as well decide now which of the abandoned servers you’re going to call home.

You may need to check my post history.

I wouldn’t mind seeing GW2 as a sub model because I would support a horizontal/ mild vertical progression based MMO that:
1. Didn’t have a gem shop.
2. Allowed me to get all the drops from actual in game content instead of having to farm champs or farm world events for extended periods of time.
3. Allowed me to trade with friends and avoid the TP altogether if I so chose.
4. Removed time gating from all but the highest tier of cosmetics or VP.
5. A huge reduction in rng and actual set drop rates for items from mobs and bosses in the world.
6. Could concentrate on actual permanent, compelling content instead of this BS LS.
7. Other stuff I would have to think about but ain’t.

Windu The Forbidden One.6045:

killcannon.2576:

Windu The Forbidden One.6045:

killcannon.2576:

Windu The Forbidden One.6045:

Elric.6971:

killcannon.2576:

Chrispy.5641:

So Wait! I’m not understanding why this is a bad thing?

It’s more or less a sub service.

The casuals feel if there is a sub service then people actually willing to pay a sub get a leg up.

The blah blah blah f2p’s feel like it causes their whole argument of “Subs are dead!! Long live b2p and f2p!!” to blow up in their face.

The GW1 lifers feel like it’s just another stab in the back because it’s not the exact same thing as a game in the dirt for five years, and they think they own the rights to what should be called GW, not the developers.

The gem buyers are gonna cry because “But we already bought gems…where’s mine.We’re not as special anymore!”

To the actual MMO crowd? It is a good thing.

Let me try to explain this to you as best as I can:

This is bad because, as pointed out before, paid VIP is subscription based, violating the “no subscription” aspect of the game. Half of this game’s appeal is being free, and that anything can be gained with some time. I’ve heard countless times people say: “even if you don’t like GW2 or get bored, you can always come back later and enjoy the same thing everyone else is.”

And whether the arguments of people threatening to leave over VIP status are valid or not, that does not change this turning a considerable amount of players against the game. It’s bad publicity, bad for marketing, “you pay for this game in subscription form” is NOT an advertising feature for box or digital releases.

Then there’s the fact that giving perks to people who are now willing or able to pay extra that may go beyond anything you can get in standard gameplay creates a financial wall of haves and have-nots. God, help Anet if such a thing extended to PVP.

Finally, there’s what this says about the Arenanet developers. Do you know why politicians will stand by bad ideas? Or better yet, stick by things that have worked well in the past and continue to work? Because it tells people that you can at least stick by what you’ve said.

Thus far, Arenanet has backed down from it’s manifesto, said they’ve been reinterpreting it, or that it’s just no longer valid. This struck many players as a sign Arenanet cannot stick by it’s word. VIP subscription status tells the existing playerbase Arenanet is willing to backflip on one of its core principles in their own interests. Once more, this is bad for marketing.

But I suppose if the larger, “True MMO crowd” you speak of flocks to this game because they can pay monthly for it, then any potential losses should shore itself up, right?

He made a very insulting and offensive argument, I wouldn’t put too much effort into responding.

Which broad group did you feel you fell into?

The first 2.
-In my opinion, subscription fees are a tumor upon MMO’s.
-Arenanet promised that everything we loved in GW1 would be in GW2. One of the greatest things about gw1 was no subscription fees of any kind.

Sub based and hybrid model MMO’s have a significantly larger player base and income than either f2p or b2p models. One would think if they were such a “tumor” they wouldn’t have the largest player base or the highest income.

One thing I have noticed a lot of back and forth on the boards lately is about whether or not GW2 is quality enough to sustain a Sub, if they decided to go that route. If GW2 had launched with a sub, would it even be a footnote now compared to other sub based or hybrid model games? Many say it stands on it’s own regardless of payment model due to quality, but I never see these people say they would pay a sub for it. They want all these things like Horizontal progression, cosmetic gear grinds, skill based play, no vertical tiers……………..but no one is willing to actually pay for them.

If the dev’s are reading this, you should have your answer about what direction to take this game.

Gw1 had a lot more and better content than gw1 without ever having a subscription fee. Everything would have been fine if they just released expansion like they have always done!

Probably. LS sucks (my opinion)

I would have bought, would still buy expansions for this game if they released them.

Windu The Forbidden One.6045:

killcannon.2576:

Windu The Forbidden One.6045:

Elric.6971:

killcannon.2576:

Chrispy.5641:

So Wait! I’m not understanding why this is a bad thing?

It’s more or less a sub service.

The casuals feel if there is a sub service then people actually willing to pay a sub get a leg up.

The blah blah blah f2p’s feel like it causes their whole argument of “Subs are dead!! Long live b2p and f2p!!” to blow up in their face.

The GW1 lifers feel like it’s just another stab in the back because it’s not the exact same thing as a game in the dirt for five years, and they think they own the rights to what should be called GW, not the developers.

The gem buyers are gonna cry because “But we already bought gems…where’s mine.We’re not as special anymore!”

To the actual MMO crowd? It is a good thing.

Let me try to explain this to you as best as I can:

This is bad because, as pointed out before, paid VIP is subscription based, violating the “no subscription” aspect of the game. Half of this game’s appeal is being free, and that anything can be gained with some time. I’ve heard countless times people say: “even if you don’t like GW2 or get bored, you can always come back later and enjoy the same thing everyone else is.”

And whether the arguments of people threatening to leave over VIP status are valid or not, that does not change this turning a considerable amount of players against the game. It’s bad publicity, bad for marketing, “you pay for this game in subscription form” is NOT an advertising feature for box or digital releases.

Then there’s the fact that giving perks to people who are now willing or able to pay extra that may go beyond anything you can get in standard gameplay creates a financial wall of haves and have-nots. God, help Anet if such a thing extended to PVP.

Finally, there’s what this says about the Arenanet developers. Do you know why politicians will stand by bad ideas? Or better yet, stick by things that have worked well in the past and continue to work? Because it tells people that you can at least stick by what you’ve said.

Thus far, Arenanet has backed down from it’s manifesto, said they’ve been reinterpreting it, or that it’s just no longer valid. This struck many players as a sign Arenanet cannot stick by it’s word. VIP subscription status tells the existing playerbase Arenanet is willing to backflip on one of its core principles in their own interests. Once more, this is bad for marketing.

But I suppose if the larger, “True MMO crowd” you speak of flocks to this game because they can pay monthly for it, then any potential losses should shore itself up, right?

He made a very insulting and offensive argument, I wouldn’t put too much effort into responding.

Which broad group did you feel you fell into?

The first 2.
-In my opinion, subscription fees are a tumor upon MMO’s.
-Arenanet promised that everything we loved in GW1 would be in GW2. One of the greatest things about gw1 was no subscription fees of any kind.

Sub based and hybrid model MMO’s have a significantly larger player base and income than either f2p or b2p models. One would think if they were such a “tumor” they wouldn’t have the largest player base or the highest income.

One thing I have noticed a lot of back and forth on the boards lately is about whether or not GW2 is quality enough to sustain a Sub, if they decided to go that route. If GW2 had launched with a sub, would it even be a footnote now compared to other sub based or hybrid model games? Many say it stands on it’s own regardless of payment model due to quality, but I never see these people say they would pay a sub for it. They want all these things like Horizontal progression, cosmetic gear grinds, skill based play, no vertical tiers……………..but no one is willing to actually pay for them.

If the dev’s are reading this, you should have your answer about what direction to take this game.

Windu The Forbidden One.6045:

Elric.6971:

killcannon.2576:

Chrispy.5641:

So Wait! I’m not understanding why this is a bad thing?

It’s more or less a sub service.

The casuals feel if there is a sub service then people actually willing to pay a sub get a leg up.

The blah blah blah f2p’s feel like it causes their whole argument of “Subs are dead!! Long live b2p and f2p!!” to blow up in their face.

The GW1 lifers feel like it’s just another stab in the back because it’s not the exact same thing as a game in the dirt for five years, and they think they own the rights to what should be called GW, not the developers.

The gem buyers are gonna cry because “But we already bought gems…where’s mine.We’re not as special anymore!”

To the actual MMO crowd? It is a good thing.

Let me try to explain this to you as best as I can:

This is bad because, as pointed out before, paid VIP is subscription based, violating the “no subscription” aspect of the game. Half of this game’s appeal is being free, and that anything can be gained with some time. I’ve heard countless times people say: “even if you don’t like GW2 or get bored, you can always come back later and enjoy the same thing everyone else is.”

And whether the arguments of people threatening to leave over VIP status are valid or not, that does not change this turning a considerable amount of players against the game. It’s bad publicity, bad for marketing, “you pay for this game in subscription form” is NOT an advertising feature for box or digital releases.

Then there’s the fact that giving perks to people who are now willing or able to pay extra that may go beyond anything you can get in standard gameplay creates a financial wall of haves and have-nots. God, help Anet if such a thing extended to PVP.

Finally, there’s what this says about the Arenanet developers. Do you know why politicians will stand by bad ideas? Or better yet, stick by things that have worked well in the past and continue to work? Because it tells people that you can at least stick by what you’ve said.

Thus far, Arenanet has backed down from it’s manifesto, said they’ve been reinterpreting it, or that it’s just no longer valid. This struck many players as a sign Arenanet cannot stick by it’s word. VIP subscription status tells the existing playerbase Arenanet is willing to backflip on one of its core principles in their own interests. Once more, this is bad for marketing.

But I suppose if the larger, “True MMO crowd” you speak of flocks to this game because they can pay monthly for it, then any potential losses should shore itself up, right?

He made a very insulting and offensive argument, I wouldn’t put too much effort into responding.

Which broad group did you feel you fell into?

Elric.6971:

killcannon.2576:

Chrispy.5641:

So Wait! I’m not understanding why this is a bad thing?

It’s more or less a sub service.

The casuals feel if there is a sub service then people actually willing to pay a sub get a leg up.

The blah blah blah f2p’s feel like it causes their whole argument of “Subs are dead!! Long live b2p and f2p!!” to blow up in their face.

The GW1 lifers feel like it’s just another stab in the back because it’s not the exact same thing as a game in the dirt for five years, and they think they own the rights to what should be called GW, not the developers.

The gem buyers are gonna cry because “But we already bought gems…where’s mine.We’re not as special anymore!”

To the actual MMO crowd? It is a good thing.

Let me try to explain this to you as best as I can:

This is bad because, as pointed out before, paid VIP is subscription based, violating the “no subscription” aspect of the game. Half of this game’s appeal is being free, and that anything can be gained with some time. I’ve heard countless times people say: “even if you don’t like GW2 or get bored, you can always come back later and enjoy the same thing everyone else is.”

And whether the arguments of people threatening to leave over VIP status are valid or not, that does not change this turning a considerable amount of players against the game. It’s bad publicity, bad for marketing, “you pay for this game in subscription form” is NOT an advertising feature for box or digital releases.

Then there’s the fact that giving perks to people who are now willing or able to pay extra that may go beyond anything you can get in standard gameplay creates a financial wall of haves and have-nots. God, help Anet if such a thing extended to PVP.

Finally, there’s what this says about the Arenanet developers. Do you know why politicians will stand by bad ideas? Or better yet, stick by things that have worked well in the past and continue to work? Because it tells people that you can at least stick by what you’ve said.

Thus far, Arenanet has backed down from it’s manifesto, said they’ve been reinterpreting it, or that it’s just no longer valid. This struck many players as a sign Arenanet cannot stick by it’s word. VIP subscription status tells the existing playerbase Arenanet is willing to backflip on one of its core principles in their own interests. Once more, this is bad for marketing.

But I suppose if the larger, “True MMO crowd” you speak of flocks to this game because they can pay monthly for it, then any potential losses should shore itself up, right?

No one is making you pay a subscription to play, so it wouldn’t become a sub based game. I see nothing that says it is changing the basic game for anyone involved. First and second paragraph more or less invalid.

What are these people winning? A discount on gem store items that most of the people who are up in arms against this said were “unnecessary” and “extra” in the first place? Hypocrisy.

Aedelric.1287:

killcannon.2576:

Aedelric.1287:

https://www.guildwars2.com/en/the-game/

“no subscription fees!”

They add this, then I am getting my money back. VIP membership is a subscription model.

Hybrid, not subscription.

Hybrid has subscription, you mean I should change the word model to fee, do not be pedantic. This does not change the point I made or argument against VIP membership.

Hybrid and pure sub models are completely different. So no pedantry involved, just a basic lack of what payment models are by the vast majority of game players.

Given, this would be more of a reverse hybrid model.

And your only point that I can see was that you were quitting because someone else may choose to pay a fee for some nebulous benefits that would not change your experience at all.

More power to you.

Aedelric.1287:

https://www.guildwars2.com/en/the-game/

“no subscription fees!”

They add this, then I am getting my money back. VIP membership is a subscription model.

Hybrid, not subscription.

Windu The Forbidden One.6045:

killcannon.2576:

Chrispy.5641:

So Wait! I’m not understanding why this is a bad thing?

It’s more or less a sub service.

The casuals feel if there is a sub service then people actually willing to pay a sub get a leg up.

The blah blah blah f2p’s feel like it causes there whole argument of “Subs are dead!! Long live b2p and f2p!!” to blow up in their face.

The GW1 lifers feel like it’s just another stab in the back because it’s not the exact same thing as a game in the dirt for five years, and they think they own the rights to what should be called GW, not the developers.

The gem buyers are gonna cry because “But we already bought gems…where’s mine.We’re not as special anymore!”

To the actual MMO crowd? It is a good thing.

The hell did I just read..

Wow.. just wow

Take your time, it will come to you.

Morinmeth.9823:

killcannon.2576:

Chrispy.5641:

So Wait! I’m not understanding why this is a bad thing?

It’s more or less a sub service.

The casuals feel if there is a sub service then people actually willing to pay a sub get a leg up.

The blah blah blah f2p’s feel like it causes there whole argument of “Subs are dead!! Long live b2p and f2p!!” to blow up in their face.

The GW1 lifers feel like it’s just another stab in the back because it’s not the exact same thing as a game in the dirt for five years, and they think they own the rights to what should be called GW, not the developers.

The gem buyers are gonna cry because “But we already bought gems…where’s mine.We’re not as special anymore!”

To the actual MMO crowd? It is a good thing.

We need a downvote button just for this thing here. Wow.

Sorry, something worthwhile to opine?

Chrispy.5641:

So Wait! I’m not understanding why this is a bad thing?

It’s more or less a sub service.

The casuals feel if there is a sub service then people actually willing to pay a sub get a leg up.

The blah blah blah f2p’s feel like it causes their whole argument of “Subs are dead!! Long live b2p and f2p!!” to blow up in their face.

The GW1 lifers feel like it’s just another stab in the back because it’s not the exact same thing as a game in the dirt for five years, and they think they own the rights to what should be called GW, not the developers.

The gem buyers are gonna cry because “But we already bought gems…where’s mine.We’re not as special anymore!”

To the actual MMO crowd? It is a good thing.

Defeated, yes.

Dead, no.

Ah, sweet sweet irony.

It’s worth a 60 dollar price tag, and as far as it goes you get a lot of good quality play time for that cash. Even better if you happened to pick it up on sale.

It is missing some long term progression style mechanics. And hitting level cap is pretty much meaningless, except to finish out your build and go for your BiS if that’s what you want. It also does a poor job of masking grind behind fun mechanics or encounters, or building lore within it’s world for the players. It also doesn’t try to use it’s own mechanics towards it’s own benefit. Where open tagging on mobs is a great idea on paper, in game it just breaks down to everyone running zerg trains and a lack of true social interaction between players.

The way I see it is this: It’s a great game, but a really mediocre MMO. Lots of great ideas, a beautiful world, a good beginning of a story and foundation for lore. It just doesn’t hold up to it’s own promise.

Still glad I bought it though.

An Siorai Tharian.4516:

Jelger.6758:

Blind. There is no hit-miss chance calculation. There are evades, blinds, etc. but there’s no hit/miss calculation, you can still make monsters miss by cleverly sidestepping them and other movements such as circling, this isn’t a huge factor contributing to the skill factor however.

Except a level 10 Warrior… and an NPC at that… has no capability to dodge, sidestep, or do any of that other stuff that you listed in your post. So your entire point is moot. Try again.

Seras.5702:

There’s dodging and more build variety than many other MMOs.

I am sorry, but ABSOLUTELY NOT. The only thing of what you just said that is true is the dodging bit. This game is actually rather limited in relation to build variety. Take Guild Wars 1 for example (that still counts as an MMO, right?), where you had an entire freaking wikipedia site devoted to build diversity

Guild Wars 2 doesn’t come anywhere close to that.

Bug or glitch or some other known unknown or unknown unknown, isn’t the first one and won’t be the last in GW2.

There is no hit or miss calculation in GW2, besides what is found here: http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Damage

GW1 was not massively multiplayer.

It’s one of the best looking games I have ever played. I’ve taken more screenshots in this game than any other.

Lord Kuru.3685:

killcannon.2576:

Not trying to White Knight the topic, but they were not promises. They were goals.

A more productive discussion would be why Anet has problems realizing goals they set for themselves as a company. We as players can be let down just as easily by companies we feel invested in when they don’t meet self imposed goals, but the sense of betrayal found in this discussion is a little over the top.

This discussion is plenty productive. Anet needs people to tell them it’s not ok to repeatedly talk big but fail nearly every single time. It doesn’t help that they’ve started stealth deleting posts from the forum without even a PM to notify you.

There’s a difference between being productive and just venting frustrations.

Perhaps instead of just repeating over and over again how people feel so betrayed, or what have you, the discussion should be more of one where players say that the developers should be more focused on one thing or goal at a time instead of broad, long term goals. Most long term goals should be kept in house to avoid this kind of reaction, much like the Manifesto should never have been released.

Imagine instead a discussion where people discussed what was most missed from the goals that Anet set in 2013, and ways the players could help the developers meet their goals. This would actually be constructive.

I’m all for constructive discussions about real issues that we as players can help with, but all this blind angst doesn’t help anyone.

Edit: Not saying that we as players shouldn’t feel some type of loss from a game we feel invested in not meeting self imposed goals, just that there is a better way to express ourselves.

Not trying to White Knight the topic, but they were not promises. They were goals.

A more productive discussion would be why Anet has problems realizing goals they set for themselves as a company. We as players can be let down just as easily by companies we feel invested in when they don’t meet self imposed goals, but the sense of betrayal found in this discussion is a little over the top.

noelclover.9408:

Silent.4378:

Totally agree , every character ive made ends up been offensive. there no mechanics or need for a defensive person in a pve point of view.

So… I have one question.

What mechanics are you talking about here? You have blocks, blinds, dodges, stuns, knockbacks and skills that grant invulnerability.

PS: Not fully directed at you but also towards all who claim to want to play defensive characters. Quoting you because you put out the idea that there is a lack of mechanics for defensive play.

PPS: Really curious, hence question.

I can’t speak for anyone else, so I won’t try. This is only my opinion.

One of the things missing from vitality and toughness is synergy with traits. We see precision, power, and crit dmg all synergize well with most of the available abilities. But what is needed are abilities or mechanics that synergize better with the defensive traits.

For instance: High vitality builds should have higher stamina for more dodges or decrease downstate times, high toughness builds should increase defensive ability uptimes or shorten cooldowns on defensive abilities. This sidesteps making pure tanks and increases true viability of defensive character builds.

Make defense synergize better and it will be more attractive to players. As the current meta stands, it’s generally just not worth it.

lordkrall.7241:

Actually no they don’t.
The status can change several times per day which would prove that it is not based on “number of accounts created on date (funny that you comment on the other guys spelling with this in your post btw..) server”.

It was confirmed by a developer some time ago that server population goes by accounts created on that server or by people transferring to or away from that server. Any other fluctuations are controlled server side by either increasing or decreasing server caps as they (Anet) see the need to.

Tman.6349:

How anybody that’s spent any amount of time in PvE can say that the PvP community is rude/toxic is completely beyond me and so bass ackwards I can’t even tell if it’s satire or not….

Lfg zerker only
Lfg lvl 80 only
Lfg experienced only
Lfg no noobs
Lfg no rangers
Lfg must show gear
Lfg heavies only
Lfg warriors and mesmers only
Lfg noobs will be kicked
Lfg 10,000+ APs only
Lfg ‘all of the above’ O.o

This is completely flawed logic tbh. I’ve done almost everything PvE has to offer, leveling and gearing 8 80s with a 9th slot for messing around, and I love it for the most part. There’s not really much that demands any skill though outside of dungeons, so I find myself doing those or FotM mostly. To pretend like PvE is just filled to the brim with stand-up, awesome, helpful people and that PvP is filled with a bunch of hateful trolls who threaten “to find where you live IRL and brutalize you” is completely rediculous and fallacious. I mean do you really believe what your saying. I’ve played since launch and have done more than my share of PvE content and am also rank40 in PvP and I’ve never seen so many elitist tools ever than trying to find a pug for a dungeon run. Apart from a bit of good natured trash talking, people in PvP are easy going BECAUSE they’re NOT playing for rewards which is the problem with the elitist/jerk part of the PvE community. People in PvP are there because they enjoy it, not because they’re grinding for some digital reward and fell the need to be rude for the sake of ‘maximum efficiency’ and shaving 2 mins off of a dungeon run. Granted there are occasional bad apples in PvP who take it way to serious and flame the chat or whatever, you will never be ostercized, ridiculed, or kicked from a group because of your profession/build/rank/etc. Most of these claims are completely unfounded and probably come from people who’ve never even qued a single match but hyperbole is always good for self justification I guess huh. I do agree though I’d be more likely to spend more time there if there were new/more game modes.

In one post you succeeded in calling people: stupid, liars, elitist, skill-less, rude, toxic, tools, jerks, hyperbolous (not a word…I know), and arrogant. Congrats!

Way to talk people into trying spvp.

An Siorai Tharian.4516:

killcannon.2576:

Says Scarlet is not a Cartoon villain….compares her to Cartoon villains.

Makes sense.

Manga are not cartoons in the traditional sense. In fact the artform known as Manga predates contemporary western cartoons by at least a hundred years. In fact the earliest images that have been associated with the concept of Manga date back to the 12th Century Common Era, though there is some debate about whether they are truly Manga or not.

Also, Deathstroke is not a Cartoon Villain, he is a Comic Book Villain. The two media are completely different in their target audiences.

killcannon.2576:

High Fantasy has nothing to do with time periods.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/High_fantasy

Actually, it has everything to do with time periods. The only reason we have what we now know as High Fantasy is because Geoffrey of Monmouth wrote Historia Regum Brittanniae, among other works, and is well known for his works dealing with King Arthur. A character who according to Geoffrey of Monmouth’s settings was part of roughly the early 800’s Common Era. So you will excuse me if I take your word with very little basis on fact.

Also, try using that wiki article as the basis of a College Essay on what High Fantasy is all about and you would be the laughing stock of your College just for citing a wikipedia article.

By the way, according to that article you linked. I would be able to get away with labeling Frank Herbert’s Dune as “High Fantasy” when it is actually the equivalent type of story, but in a Sci-Fi setting. In fact an argument could be made for Star Wars also being High Fantasy according to that article, despite it’s many Sci-Fi elements.

Sci fi is a fantasy sub genre.

DeathStroke in your example comes from teen titans I assume. Comics and cartoons about comics share a common audience, not sure why you think they don’t. That’s like saying that people who read Manga do not watch Anime.

Manga are not cartoons, but more akin to western comic books or graphic novels. Anime are cartoons, or animated shows. The examples you listed follow more closely to the related Animes than the mangas. Potato, potatoe. It’s the same thing. Semantics.

King Arthur is Low Fantasy or falls into the realm of Myth in some circles, depending on how you want to take it. Star Wars is Sci fi space opera. Learn your genres.

Wikipedia is fine for layman, which I assume you are. The article has plenty of sources cited, which I would use instead the article itself for a college paper. A common practice, which most students use.

An Siorai Tharian.4516:

Teratus, to be fair. Guild Wars 1 was set in what I like to term a “High Fantasy Setting” which generally equates to between the 1200’s and the 1600’s in Europe, as far as the historical influences on the setting are concerned. But even back in Guild Wars 1, there were elements of Steam Punk present in the setting. Most notably within the Charr civilization. I don’t personally classify Asura Tech as anything other than “Magitech” and thus do not include it within the genre of Steam Punk.

That said, Video Role Playing Games that utilize a High Fantasy Setting, have been incorporating elements of Steam Punk within their stories since at least 1991, a good 14 years before Guild Wars was ever actually released. You basically have Final Fantasy II/IV to blame for the inclusion of Steam Punk in your fantasy genre. Final Fantasy III/VI was even more blatant about it though, going so far as to coin the term magitech in regards to a device that looked way more steam than it did magical (it even issued steam).

Final Fantasy 6 Opening Movie

Also, as far as villians worthy of hating them. Scarlet really has absolutely nothing on Kefka. I mean she hasn’t actually done anything noteworthy as far as being a Villain. Kefka on the other hand poisoned an entire cities drinking water, did various other evil things…. AND SUCCESSFULLY ESTABLISHED HIMSELF AS GOD. Not to mention causing a successful destruction of the entire world of Final Fantasy VI (which he later rebuilt in his image).

Kefka was by and large the single most successful villain of all time (unless you are counting Yuno Gasai, cause she trumps even Kefka in the category of successful Villains).

High Fantasy has nothing to do with time periods.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/High_fantasy

An Siorai Tharian.4516:

GuzziHero.2467:

An Siorai Tharian.4516:

Yeah but none of those villains you mentioned actually has a legitimate claim to immortality, (well except Mumm-Ra I suppose). Unlike Voldemort, or Sauron for example. Or heck, even Jadis. Scarlett gets a pass because she doesn’t actually fight us, or hasn’t yet. She lets her minions do all the work and runs away to wherever her battle fortress happens to be located.

Immortality doesn’t matter. She is just another Saturday Morning Cartoon villain.

I guess the problem really could be that since GW2 is largely played by adults and not kids, we cannot overlook the flaws in having a do-anything, go-anywhere enemy that cannot be placed or defeated. The issue is with our cynical minds, not the character.

Actually, if one took the time to read up on the lore that is being presented for the character and the living story elements that she is a part of, one would quickly see that she is anything but a Saturday Morning Cartoon Villain.

Rather I liken her more to the likes of Deathstroke, Father, and arguably even Light Yagami (even though the latter was the protagonist of the manga in question).

All three of these Villains worked almost 100% behind the scenes. The only time you got to see Father actively fighting the main cast of Full Metal Alchemist was during the last couple of episodes of the Brotherhood series. Deathstroke would hire various minor villains to do his dirty work for him, only deigning to actually involve himself in the petty affairs of actual battles if it was absolutely necessary to his plot.

And as for Light Yagami, his entire shtick required him to remain anonymous from the would be heroes to the point where he was actually working with them to stop himself. It was kind of ridiculous what all he got away with under the noses of the authorities.

These are all the kinds of things that Scarlett herself does in a way. She works behind the scenes, only coming out long enough to taunt us with her presence. These are not the actions of a stereotypical Saturday morning cartoon villain. Her actions are world shaping in ways that no Saturday Morning Cartoon Villain’s actions could ever be. I mean her activities have altered the appearance of Kessex Hills TWICE.

Says Scarlet is not a Cartoon villain….compares her to Cartoon villains.

Makes sense.

Ashen.2907:

killcannon.2576:

At the end of the day, a person who buys 20000 gems is no more important than a person who buys none. In an MMO the most important players are the ones who actually play. Everyday.

Agreed with all except, possibly, this part. An MMO is a for profit business and a customer that is supporting the business financially on an ongoing basis is of more import to that purpose.

Assume MMO A has 100k players each spending $50 dollars per year on the game. MMO B has the same number of players, half paying $50 per year on the game with the other half paying $0 per year on the game. All other things being equal which game will have more resources to spend on continuing development, growing the game, expanding content, etc ?

MMO A, of course. But it’s not so simple.

Same type of question back to you. Same companies.

MMO A has 100k players total, 50k log in only on weekends for about 4 to 8 hours total. 25k log in maybe 3 or 4 times a week, about 12 to 20 hours total. 25k log in everyday for about 2 to 4 hours.

MMO B has 50k players who log in everyday for about 2 to 4 hours. 25k who log in everyday for 4 or more hours. 20k players who log in 3 to 4 times a week for about 20 hours. And 5k or so of weekenders.

Now we know MMO A is making more money currently, but what happens when those people who are paying the money aren’t actually logging in?

Population is the single largest determining factor for the success or failure of any MMO. A living, breathing, populated MMO will succeed even if only a small percentage is actually paying for extra bits (only applicable in the buy to play and f2p monetization schemes), and a buy to play that is doing well doesn’t even need those people, they will generate more than enough revenue through box sales.

People don’t want to play a deserted MMO. The more people who play, the more money that IP will make, regardless of who does or does not buy gems. The single best thing an MMO player can do to help their favorite game to succeed is to play.

I could go on and tell people why “I Quit” threads are important, why the complaint threads are more valuable than the appreciation threads, or why there is no such thing as horizontal “progression”. But this is already way off topic, so…. done with this tangent.

lordkrall.7241:

Yes you can play for free after you bought the box.

But people are buying gems to keep the game running. If no one bought gems the game would shut down quite fast and thus it is those of us that buy gems that are paying for the content. Not those people that paid $60 over a year ago.

If you enjoy the game, there is no reason why you shouldn’t buy gems to give the developers some more operating capital. I’m sure they appreciate it, and I’m sure some of it goes to developing the game. But people should never feel obligated or forced to buy gems.

People should buy gems because they like/enjoy/want what they are getting with those gems. Be it QoL improvements like unlimited harvesting tools, cosmetic improvements like Town clothes, convenience items like boosts or gold or the Royal Terrace, fun items like the brooms or the musical instruments or the minis.

Ideally gems should be used as a type of feedback that the developers can use to decide what type of content to make available in the gem store.

At the end of the day, a person who buys 20000 gems is no more important than a person who buys none. In an MMO the most important players are the ones who actually play. Everyday.

And you are not playing for “free”. You bought the game, and that’s is all that is required for anyone.

Ashen.2907:

killcannon.2576:

You are incorrect. Many have not spent any money other than purchase price…….and guess what? They get everything for the purchase price. Hence Buy to Play.

Hmm, I must be misunderstanding your point. When I look at the gem store I see plenty of things that are not included in the purchase price of the game box. I have purchased things that one of my friends has not. We have both paid the box price and yet I have access to those things in game while my friend does not.

I meant like actual gameplay stuff. Like Fractal levels, parts of the LS, weapon sets, etc etc.

Apologies, I was not very clear with my post.

Ashen.2907:

killcannon.2576:

lordkrall.7241:

Ashen.2907:

Of course they, as the producer of consumer goods, owe you, the consumer, something. They owe you what you paid for.

How much did you pay for the elements being discussed here ?

Oh, but didn’t you know that every single thing ever released in the game will have been paid for with those $60 people spent over a year ago!

It was. That is the premise behind a buy to play monetization scheme.

Anet, from as early on in the discussions of a GW2 as I can recall, always spoke of at least the possibility of charging for content after the initial B2P. It was specifically mentioned as a counter to the idea of a sub fee. In addition to such early commentary the game has always, continuing to this day, included actual examples of requiring additional monetary expenditure for elements not included in the initial box purchase price.

So no, I am sorry but you are mistaken, “everything ever released in the game,” is not included in that $60 spent over a year ago.

You are incorrect. Many have not spent any money other than purchase price…….and guess what? They get everything for the purchase price. Hence Buy to Play.

If they change the monetization and put basic gameplay mechanics, new areas besides convenience zones, or new skills behind a pay wall, then they jump into the f2p market zone…with an additional up front cost.

If Anet wants to monetize through the gem shop, then it is their job to make enticing content available to the players to buy. It is not the players responsibility to fund the game. It is Anets job to make me want to buy things.

All part of the buy to play scheme.

edit: In other words, Anet can put convenience and cosmetic items behind a paywall from now till doomsday and it’s fine. They can sell gold, name changes, server transfers, auto max levels, what have you.

But if they start selling extra Fractals, parts of the LS, new weapon sets, new viable skill sets, any actual real content besides an expansion, then it will no longer be a buy to play game.

pdemo.8312:

yeah so ik theres a ton of accounts but how many people still play on them

Anet isn’t going to tell you, the players don’t have the info, you’re going to get a ton of biased responses, there is no right or wrong answer here.

Seriously, just play the game if you like it, or don’t play if you don’t. If you’re on a dead server, switch.

Not trying to be antagonistic, but you won’t get any concrete, good answers from the player base.

pdemo.8312:

doesnt server population have to do with how many people bought the game and not how many people are active

Accounts per server. They don’t have to be active.

lordkrall.7241:

Ashen.2907:

Of course they, as the producer of consumer goods, owe you, the consumer, something. They owe you what you paid for.

How much did you pay for the elements being discussed here ?

Oh, but didn’t you know that every single thing ever released in the game will have been paid for with those $60 people spent over a year ago!

It was. That is the premise behind a buy to play monetization scheme.

I think it’s a bad question and doesn’t really make for good discussion.

Here, I’ll go ahead and give you what’s going to happen in this topic.

“GW2 is doing great!”
“No it isn’t, it’s already dead or dying!”
“What? Prove it!”
“I don’t need to prove it, you prove it’s still doing well!”
“I don’t need to prove it’s doing well, you prove it’s dying!”
ad nauseum
The End.

IndigoSundown.5419:

Vayne.8563:

cesmode.4257:

Amiron.1067:

Well said, OP. GW2 isn’t perfect, but it’s a far cry from terrible and it’s a darn good game to look to. Did anyone mention the non subscription fee factor? Because that is also a huge reason why I love this game. I can put it down and come back whenever I like, without feeling obligated to play as much as possible since I’m trying to get the most out of my 30 days.

Why do people say they like a game because it has no subscription? The fact that a game is free does not make it any more fun or any less fun. Financial model does not factor into whether ot not the player will enjoy the game. One has nothing to do with the other. You may like the fact that its free to play, but when people say “I like GW2 because it is free to play”…puzzles me. The free aspect makes it fun? Please explain.

I will assume you like GW2. If GW2 was subscription based, would you then consider it not a fun game to play…or no longer like it?

This phenomena puzzles me

Games with subscriptions put stuff in the game to slow down the game. Games without subscriptions don’t do the same thing. And I’m not talking about time gating on crafting, which is another type of slow down.

Take WoW as an example. Flight times from place to place are long and once you’ve done them 80 or 90 times, they’re just a waste of time. You can’t just TP to a waypoint and be where you want to be? So yeah 10/10 for immersion, but I don’t want to see and watch myself fly, or go make myself a cup of coffee. I want to be back playing.

Yeah, WoW not only slows you down, the game nickel and dimes you with slowdowns. Many mobs, you’d fight them, and they’d get down to about 5-10% of their health left. Then they would use a slowdown skill, like cripple or chill. The effect lasts for some time, long after the mob is dead. While the game might provide me with an interrupt or a cleanse, I would normally fight several such mobs before these counters would come off cool-down.

The slowdown skill had zero effect on the outcome of the battle. So why is it there? I saw no reason for the skill timing to be anything but an attempt to slow me down. it’s only a few seconds, but you kill an awful lot of mobs leveling in WoW, and a lot of them do this.

At least in GW2, mob slowdown skills normally get used early in the fight, when they might actually change the dynamics of the fight.

It’s to teach players the mechanics of their class, and to acclimate players to later battles in dungeons/raids where these mechanics are much more prevalent.

To many long time MMO players these kind of encounters are old hat, but WoW introduced many players to the genre and it was important to have a tutorial without a tutorial.

Marcus Greythorne.6843:

@comparisons to games like WoW (when people claim they could have a whole set of equivalent gear in the same time + rare mounts etc):

http://www.wowhead.com/npc=60400

heroic item droprates: from 0.6% (54 out of 8603) to 1.4% (118 out of 8603)
And you’d need enough people to do the raid with you + all the trash before. Aren’t raids once a week only?

your hyperbole is remarkable
(nah, it’s not, just tiresome)

Hyperbole huh? Nah…just facts, sorry. There is no way in hell you could talk a WoW player into running something 71 times waiting for a drop.

Even back during Vanilla I only had to run speed Strat like 10 times to get the rare mount to drop for me. And during those runs had lots lots of other drops to use, de for enchants, items for rep, and more challenge and fun in an instance than any I’ve had since playing GW2. And drop rates and ease of acquiring BiS has only gotten easier since then.

The drop rates for this game is just a way to keep players playing, and honestly, there’s nothing wrong with that in a f2p or b2p model. But don’t compare the rng here with pay to play games, that idea just doesn’t make sense.

Even rep grinds usually only take about a month or two months nowadays.

Dark Catalyst.1028:

killcannon.2576:

Xenesis.6389:

Could have had a full suit of raid gear in WoW with the amount of times you spent killing him…

More like full Raid gear and decked out in full pvp gear as well. And the encounters would have been more challenging and fun.

edit: And probably had a couple rare mounts drop, and be able to outfit alts with other drops, and made a substantial amount of gold, and got some crafting mats, and etc,etc,etc.

This is spot on. Time spent within GW2 isn’t rewarding, when considering the atrocious drop rates and the extreme grind. The skins aren’t that amazing.

I always have something to do in WoW. Always. Here in GW2, I log on, linger in Lion’s Arch for 15 minutes and then just log off. Nothing is interesting or challenging enough.

The dailies absolutely killed the game for me.

It’s just a basic design difference in the f2p/b2p model versus the pay to play model. For some it’s worth it to not have to pay the sub fee.

Xenesis.6389:

Could have had a full suit of raid gear in WoW with the amount of times you spent killing him…

More like full Raid gear and decked out in full pvp gear as well. And the encounters would have been more challenging and fun.

edit: And probably had a couple rare mounts drop, and be able to outfit alts with other drops, and made a substantial amount of gold, and got some crafting mats, and etc,etc,etc.

Omega Mayhem.7163:

Guesting is the fix.

Guesting is part of the problem.

Playing a buy to play game.

AntiGw.9367:

Lonely Hermit.1967:

Please add button: “I allow to merge my party” or something.

Should this be added to the long list of buttons, menus and checkboxes that only several people want to be added to the tool? Sure, let’s add like 20 buttons to it, that’s gonna make it better…

Wait for them to improve the current merge options, or simply don’t use the tool if you don’t want to be merged with.

Empowering player choice is generally a good idea in game design, not a bad one.