Guild Wars 2

Fernling.1729:

killcannon.2576:

Karizee.8076:

The game is very active, there are more people playing now than at launch. Well worth coming back with all of the continuing improvements to the game and content patches every two weeks.

Here’s a great video that shows what changes you’ll see right away (applies to everyone)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ce_dvXJercI

And another video that highlights changes to WvW
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eUfV3OBLyc8

You can see the release splash pages here:
https://www.guildwars2.com/en/the-game/releases/

And here is a searchable patch notes:
http://gw2patchnotesearch.david-reess.de/

Whoa there Nelly!! More people playing than at launch eh?

I sure would like to see a source for that one.

He’s always throwing out bs numbers when it comes to population.
Just a few months ago he claimed that you would have to be suffering from a delusional disorder if you didn’t believe that 2.5million people of 3 million sales are still active players logging in every week.

yeah, I know. sad isn’kitten still, I enjoy calling them on it when I can lol

Karizee.8076:

The game is very active, there are more people playing now than at launch. Well worth coming back with all of the continuing improvements to the game and content patches every two weeks.

Here’s a great video that shows what changes you’ll see right away (applies to everyone)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ce_dvXJercI

And another video that highlights changes to WvW
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eUfV3OBLyc8

You can see the release splash pages here:
https://www.guildwars2.com/en/the-game/releases/

And here is a searchable patch notes:
http://gw2patchnotesearch.david-reess.de/

Whoa there Nelly!! More people playing than at launch eh?

I sure would like to see a source for that one.

IMO one of the problems with the game is that leveling is too quick. Experience needed to level should be about 150% of what it is now.

SHM.7628:

killcannon.2576:

The simple truth is that there is no endgame here as found in traditional MMOrpg’s.

The creators wanted an inclusive game where all content was accessible by everyone with a minimum amount of playing effort involved. Most other MMO’s practice exclusivity, where progression is required and one of the easiest ways to make things exclusive with as little work as possible is by gear gating content.

They could have progression related endgame content here if they so choose, without relying on gear progression gating, but they have chosen to not go that route. I don’t believe we will ever see true end game progression here, outside of chasing better particle effects. It’s good for some players, for some it’s not.

This truly is a game for casual MMO players, and it will always have a place in the market I believe.

But for players who desire conventional end game progression, this game just doesn’t have it. The good news is that there is a game coming that is the flip side of this coin, hopefully, with Wildstar. Will just have to wait and see.

I think when all is said and done, you hit the nail on the head.

My opinion is that this game has tried to be too many thing for too many people and has fallen short as a result in almost every area. Often they vacillate between extremes without finding a good balance. It’s a game of paradoxes.

-They offered a low grind game then put 80 levels and a gear grind in it.

-One minute there’s almost no karma gain. The next it’s raining karma jugs, then its dry again.

-Then they say play how you like, then you get slapped with DR when you do.

Frankly, I think they should separate PVE and PVP/WvW completely. It’s caused more balance problems than anything else. Bouncing back and forth for rewards has only made maps empty. They also mishandled how guesting works.

They have tried to gather diverse groups of differing play styles together and keep them happy. For the most part, I don’t believe it has worked out quite as well as they might have hoped it would. They may have been better served to just have bled the initial players who wanted more gear progression, and stayed true to their original ideas.

One of the things I feel is truly lacking in the game is a unified vision of who exactly they want to play their game. WoW tried going down the same path and lost a lot of subscribers because of it. They have successfully (arguable) weathered the storm because they had already had a huge initial install base, but the longer they don’t have a clear focus as to who their target audience is, they will continue to bleed. GW2 doesn’t quite have the same kind of wiggle room. While wanting to be all things to all gamers looks good on paper and to statisticians, it doesn’t always play out too successfully when implemented.

The dichotomy we see in GW2 is mostly because of these divergent groups of players. By instituting one change in a certain direction, they veer away from one group, then they almost always over correct back in the other direction, or just institute something on a wildly different tangent. People wanted better rewards for champs (they did indeed need something better than nothing), and they went too far and made them too profitable and now that is all people do. It seems that everything looks like a nail because the only thing they know how to use is a hammer. We have seen very little finesse in the first year of GW2.

I’m not sure if they ever will achieve a satisfactory balance without making some drastic changes that will lose them a portion of their audience. But in the end, they may be better off if they do.

Blanger.3162:

I have a better solution to farming, don’t by materials from the TP, if you need materials go out and spend the time acquiring all necessary mats you need to do whatever it is, that way the farmers can’t make money off the mats they farm, you’ll have the satisfaction of acquiring your own materials thus making the game a more rewarding experience….no changes to the monetary system needed.

^^^^This^^^^

Rym.1469:

Your first point kinda made me think about basic idea of communism and Central-controlled economy. You know what? It failed

Communism has only failed on the large scale. Communism is still doing great on the small to medium scale. Matter of fact, it’s the only thing that keeps capitalism running.

ZombiesTT.3619:

I stopped playing a few months ago, along with my friends. The game has remained unpatched for all that time and it will take me quite a while to update. However, I was wondering if it is worth it.

I know ANet was releasing a lot of steady updates in terms of the living story. However, I found those updates to be boring for the most part. I didn’t feel like the game was improving – it just gave you something to do, temporarily.

Are there any significant changes now? I hated fractals so I hope there isn’t too much emphasis there. How is spvp and wvwvw? Any endgame content? Are the world maps still empty? Is legendary grinding still slow and dull? Feel free to answer any of these, as well as any other unasked questions.

Answered in order: Significant, no.
Fractals is the only progression related activity in the game, did a rework on it, adding a new fractal.
Spvp is essentially the same- one game type, with different FotW/M classes as balance patches come and go.
WvW has added some few things, but it’s still controlled by the zerg- if you didn’t like it before, you won’t now.
Still no conventional progression related end game content geared toward max level characters. Chase the LS carrot for AP instead.
Legendary grind has not changed. You’re either lucky or you’re not. Or you save your gold, or buy your gold, and get it that way.

It’s still the same game you left. It’s the selling point of GW2, you can put it down and pick it back up whenever you like….and be in the same place as before.

The simple truth is that there is no endgame here as found in traditional MMOrpg’s.

The creators wanted an inclusive game where all content was accessible by everyone with a minimum amount of playing effort involved. Most other MMO’s practice exclusivity, where progression is required and one of the easiest ways to make things exclusive with as little work as possible is by gear gating content.

They could have progression related endgame content here if they so choose, without relying on gear progression gating, but they have chosen to not go that route. I don’t believe we will ever see true end game progression here, outside of chasing better particle effects. It’s good for some players, for some it’s not.

This truly is a game for casual MMO players, and it will always have a place in the market I believe.

But for players who desire conventional end game progression, this game just doesn’t have it. The good news is that there is a game coming that is the flip side of this coin, hopefully, with Wildstar. Will just have to wait and see.

Vayne.8563:

The real answer here is guesting. It’s free. It’s easy to do (as long as you don’t accidentally transfer like I did lol), and you can play with more people.

I’m not sure why people resist this. It solves the problem.

I don’t understand why you keep saying it solves the problem.

The problem: Low server populations.

Your solution: Make the server population lower.

That’s not a solution, that’s part of the problem.

Either merge servers or nix guesting, period. That starts solving the problem.

Arthos Ravron.3796:

phys.7689:

MrRuin.9740:

Noctis.4753:

Is the survivability of a warrior/guardian wearing full berserker gear as bad as thief/ele (squishy classes) when doing PVE (dungeon and fractals) ?

Your survivability is more reliant on your ability to press ‘V’ than anything else.
I’ve been on dungeons and fractals where the heavies are constantly down and the squishies stay up, and vice-versa. Thief, Guardian, Ele, whatever…..it doesn’t really matter as dodging is more important than class or gear when it comes to surviving in PvE.

incorrect.
warriors/guardians will take less base dmg just from armor
they have more effective HP due to heals, protection
they have abilities which reduce dmg, like dolyak signet endure pain, aegis. they got strong hot like heal signet guardian has a large number of block skills.

the warrior guardian has to dodge less, and more dmg cancels. inspite of peoples belief to the contrary, there is a fairly large difference in what proffessions can do.

Guardians actually are forced to dodge if they have unscathed contender.

Imagine, not one hit must be taken for them to keep this up.

Oh and Doly Signet is nothing compared to Signet of Judgment and Signet of Stamina.

On a side note, I can barely understand your English, or your supposed “knowledge” on the professions you’re talking about.

I thought this post was amusing.

Curious why you are using an ad hominem attack ? Do you not understand class jargon? The poster pretty much nailed it, if you are unsure of what jargon means GIYF.

Vayne.8563:

killcannon.2576:

Vayne.8563:

Corpus Christi.2057:

When the ranged weapons are the least efficient/useful on an ideologically archer-based class – ranger – you know there is something wrong with this game. Enough said.

People keep saying the ranger is an archer based profession and it’s just not so. It has BECOME an archer based profession but rangers are based on D&D which in itself was based on Lord of the Rings. In Lord of the Rings Aragorn was a ranger. He prodominantly fought with a sword.

The misconception comes from the word range in ranger, but that has nothing to do with weapons. It was to do with the fact that rangers live in the wilds instead of cities. They have a range (as in home on the range or park ranger). They range. That’s what makes a ranger.

Not using a ranged weapon.

I’m bored, so I’m going to attack this misconception about Rangers in LotR.

Aragorn was A ranger, not the mold for all rangers in the LotR universe. He was a ranger by luck of birth. Rangers of the North, which Aragorn was a member of and led for time before becoming part of the Fellowship, were made up of the remnants of the Dunedain. Rangers of the North used bows as their primary weapon as a general rule, and were generally trained by the elves in combat tactics used to fight foes more numerous than themselves using stealth, traps, and misdirection.

Rangers of Ithilien, of which Faramir was a part and leader. This set of Rangers also used bows as their primary weapon, and used stealth and guerrilla tactics against foes who were much more numerous. These Rangers could also trace their heritage back to the Dunedain.

So….

1. Rangers in LotR did in fact use ranged weapons as their primary weapon set.
2. This isn’t LotR regardless.
3. Anet has described and reinforces the idea of the GW2 Ranger class as a primary ranged weapon user.
4. The GW2 Ranger class, as is, is not performing as it should as set out by the developers.
5. People should complain till this is rectified, OR, Anet should change the description of the class and stop reinforcing the idea of the Ranger class as a primary ranged weapon set class.

Lastly…stop using Aragorn to say Rangers are not a ranged weapon class…it’s ridiculous.

Edit: If LotR Rangers were modeled using GW2 game classes, they would most closely resemble the Thief. Add some woodslore/ tracking/ and knowledge of animals and they would be a close fit.

Okay…let’s do it this way then. I can’t disagree with your interpretation because it’s been ages since I read Lord of the Rings. However, I can say this.

Anet, despite what everyone here is saying, created a game that is supposed to turn the genre a bit on its ear. What’s the first weapon a ranger gets? Not a bow, but an axe. Much closer range than a bow.

What does a ranger in Guild Wars 2 do the most damage with? Not a bow.

So you’re right. This isn’t Lord of the Rings. This isn’t D&D. This is Guild Wars 2.

And in Guild Wars 2, rangers are most effective damage wise with sword, not bow.

Again, you can argue with me all you want, but what you really need to do is take it up with the meta.

Not arguing. They are better at melee. The question is…should they be?

Currently the “ranged” class sucks more at range than they do at melee. The players are not the ones who described the class as a heavy ranged class, Development team did that. The meta is based of how the quirks of development land in game.

They just need to adjust the class so A (description of the class) equals out to B (how the class plays). I don’t care which they do.

Vayne.8563:

Corpus Christi.2057:

When the ranged weapons are the least efficient/useful on an ideologically archer-based class – ranger – you know there is something wrong with this game. Enough said.

People keep saying the ranger is an archer based profession and it’s just not so. It has BECOME an archer based profession but rangers are based on D&D which in itself was based on Lord of the Rings. In Lord of the Rings Aragorn was a ranger. He prodominantly fought with a sword.

The misconception comes from the word range in ranger, but that has nothing to do with weapons. It was to do with the fact that rangers live in the wilds instead of cities. They have a range (as in home on the range or park ranger). They range. That’s what makes a ranger.

Not using a ranged weapon.

I’m bored, so I’m going to attack this misconception about Rangers in LotR.

Aragorn was A ranger, not the mold for all rangers in the LotR universe. He was a ranger by luck of birth. Rangers of the North, which Aragorn was a member of and led for time before becoming part of the Fellowship, were made up of the remnants of the Dunedain. Rangers of the North used bows as their primary weapon as a general rule, and were generally trained by the elves in combat tactics used to fight foes more numerous than themselves using stealth, traps, and misdirection.

Rangers of Ithilien, of which Faramir was a part and leader. This set of Rangers also used bows as their primary weapon, and used stealth and guerrilla tactics against foes who were much more numerous. These Rangers could also trace their heritage back to the Dunedain.

So….

1. Rangers in LotR did in fact use ranged weapons as their primary weapon set.
2. This isn’t LotR regardless.
3. Anet has described and reinforces the idea of the GW2 Ranger class as a primary ranged weapon user.
4. The GW2 Ranger class, as is, is not performing as it should as set out by the developers.
5. People should complain till this is rectified, OR, Anet should change the description of the class and stop reinforcing the idea of the Ranger class as a primary ranged weapon set class.

Lastly…stop using Aragorn to say Rangers are not a ranged weapon class…it’s ridiculous.

Edit: If LotR Rangers were modeled using GW2 game classes, they would most closely resemble the Thief. Add some woodslore/ tracking/ and knowledge of animals and they would be a close fit.

Yoshino.3982:

Forever DR! Hopefully newer players can join too

I used to beat that drum too.

Good Luck.

Sadly DR is one of the less densely populated servers (regardless of whatever the server shows as full/not full).

Bit of advice, delete your toon and reroll on another server before you get too attached. Or just buy some gems for a server transfer later.

Then again this may be cyclical. With the ability to change servers relatively easily, populations can fluctuate dramatically when entire guilds start jumping ship for a new season of WvW.

Shrug.

Vayne.8563:

IndigoSundown.5419:

Vayne.8563:

Xae Isareth.1364:

Vayne.8563:

Galtrix.7369:

Angelica Dream.7103:

Our guild has about 40% under 21 so I would say that more adults play GW2 but more “mature teens” play GW2 VS games like WOW

lol, I beg to differ. I’ve been kicked out of more dungeons than I can count by little teenagers in GW2. Let me give you a comparison. I’ve played WoW since the beginning of it’s existence. I’ll just say 8 years. I was only kicked by a teenager twice in WoW, and he was extremely immature. Fast forward to Guild Wars 2, and I’ve been kicked over 30 times. 20-22ish of those were teens.

That’s because more little teenagers pug, where older people tend to organize into guilds of like minded people. Much of my guild is over 30. Plenty of us are over 50.

Also, how do you know they’re teenagers? The MMO genre is infamous for attracting elitism.

I believe this to be a generational thing. The generation I’m from did everything personally. Mom and pop stores, instead of big huge megastores. That’s what I grew up with. The older you are, the more likely you were dealing with people personally and not systems.

So I’m more comfortable dealing with people I know…because growing up it’s how I (and people my age) interacted.

Now the younger generation, they’re more used to thinks like facebook, games where you pair with strangers over and over again, that sort of thing.

That isn’t to say there won’t be exceptions. There will be younger people who don’t want to pug and older people who like pugging, but even in my guild of 130, it seems to me the younger people just pug as a matter of course, and the older people tend not to pug unless it’s a last option.

I’m not judging this as being better or not better. I’m judging this based on comfort zones. I know how I feel and I attribute it to the world I grew up in.

It wasn’t intended to be a value judgement on anyone.

I don’t know… Pugging, especially using an lfg site or in game tool, is about convenience, and “path of least resistance” is age-neutral.

Well, I’m going by personal, admittedly annecdotal experience), but I didn’t grow up “playing” with random strangers, so I don’t gravitate to that solution. It’s harder for me to pug, not easier. It’s a different thought process.

With a pug, you have to usually anyway run run run. Fast fast fast. I’m not a fast fast fast type of guy. I’m older. It takes me longer to get my bearings. Unless I’ve done a dungeon a million times, I still have to think sometimes about where to go or what to do next. Pugs don’t give me that flexibility.

Then, there’s almost no chance when playing with guildies of getting kicked from a party, or having to deal with unwanted comments, or rage quitting. It’s a different thought process.

I tend to play best with people over 30, because I am over 30. And I tend to find those people in guilds.

I could be wrong about other people but for me, pugging is more difficult not easier.

Going to have to agree with Vayne on this one. It may also not necessarily come down to a strict age barrier, but a maturity barrier. The player populations who use LFG systems are a bit of a running joke in MMO circles for a reason.

Ashen.2907:

Vayne.8563:

But what do you miss when you miss that temporary content? Some achievement points and a backpiece? A minipet.

The above seems to be contradicted by the below. You dismiss any concern that one might be missing something by skipping a chapter of living story…

Vayne.8563:

Except that parts of the living story are quite good and some are even brilliant.

…and then claim that one would be potentially missing something very good and even brilliant.

Those two points, both from this very thread, are mutually exclusive. Either one is missing something brilliant by skipping a LS chapter or there is nothing of significance to be missed by skipping a LS chapter.

You must be new here.

Logic doesn’t work on Vayne.

It’s “cool” to hate on WoW

WoW has quests in it.

People dislike quests, cause they think it makes them cool and hip and fresh (and other words)

Instead it makes them something else.

It doesn’t matter how many people play an Engineer, or a Charr.

What matters is the fact that there are bugs and graphical glitches in game that have been reported and recognized for over a year.

Instead of fixing these known issues, known for over a year, they instead have manpower focused on new content.

The fact people are blindly defending these actions is ludicrous.

I’m glad there are more hairstyles. But it’s not going to sell games by word of mouth or increase player base loyalty.

Teege.4623:

They don’t have any negative PR to counter and it’s been argued that they have more players than they know what to do with. They could just want more money, but I don’t want to call them greedy. Huh.

Doesn’t have to be a counter PR campaign. It just looks good to say “Hey we broke X number of units sold”.

It’s something they haven’t done since close to launch and Holiday season is around the corner, it would be a decent blurb to put on their advertising to draw in new players.

And they do have negative PR. They are currently running damage control and propaganda for the LS pretty much whenever they can.

Because they want to move the number of total units sold upwards most likely.

I would hazard the guess that they want to make some kind of PR announcement that they have sold X number of games and look good to the public and shareholders. Some arbitrary number they wish to reach.

Be on the lookout for the announcement.

Knote.2904:

Vayne.8563:

SAB isn’t temporary…it’s just not there all the time. The Flame and Frost dungeon that was temporary. SAB comes back periodically.

That means it’s temporary…..

It means it’s reoccurring. The same as the holiday stuff. Temporary does not equal reoccurring.

Still hate SAB regardless.

Vayne.8563:

killcannon.2576:

Vayne.8563:

Draco.2806:

Vayne.8563:

You people don’t know the difference between annecdotal evidence and eye witness testimony.

Of course – that’s because they’re the same thing.

Witness testimony has zero value if not corroborated by evidence or cross-referenced against other examples of witness testimony. A word by itself is worth less than nothing.

Not necessarily true. Witnesses are heard and taken on face value, unless they’re a reason not to believe them.

For example, I couldn’t actually say I know someone who knows someone in court, because in court, that would be considered hearsay and inadmissible. I could very well say I saw something. It may be accepted or not accepted, but it’s not against the rules.

How in your mind are those the same thing?

Anecdotal and eye witness testimony is the same thing.

Anecdotal- I have only ever seen it rain when it is dark, therefor it only rains when it is dark. Anecdotal evidence is taken from personal experience and is generally not backed up by long term observation over an extended period of time. It’s the same thing as saying “The game must be dying/growing because my guild/LA/instance has seen a marked growth/decline/overflow/non overflow”.

Any anecdotal evidence must be taken with a grain of salt (or a shaker full). Just because you see something or hear something does not make it true.

Eye witness testimony is taken in the exact same manner. Five eye witnesses to a crime may see totally different things and corroboration is usually needed to make eye witness testimony worthwhile. “Two individuals said the suspect was heavyset and in their mid 40’s, while two others said the suspect was lean and very young”. Can these eyewitness accounts all be true? To the person giving the account they are true (assuming total honesty on the witnesses part), but in a courtroom or to someone who wasn’t there this evidence is worthless.

Anecdotal and eye witness accounts are the same thing.

And as far as it goes for Devs lying, I can easily bring up evidence to show them saying one thing and doing the exact opposite or just outright lying. Implementation of Ascended gear is probably the easiest example.

Yes, but you weren’t there for THIS conversation and I was. You can say anything you want. If this dev was going to lie to me, he’d have painted some things in a much different light. I keep saying it and people keep ignoring it.

I wonder why.

This guy wasn’t trying to paint a rosy red picture of the game or the company.

No clue about what the dev did or did not say. It just doesn’t matter what the dev did or did not say.

For what it’s worth, I believe you. But, again, it doesn’t matter to the overall scheme of the discussion if I do or do not. It still breaks down to anecdotal evidence. And the thing being discussed wasn’t hearsay and eye witness testimony. It was eye witness testimony and anecdotal evidence.

Vayne.8563:

Draco.2806:

Vayne.8563:

You people don’t know the difference between annecdotal evidence and eye witness testimony.

Of course – that’s because they’re the same thing.

Witness testimony has zero value if not corroborated by evidence or cross-referenced against other examples of witness testimony. A word by itself is worth less than nothing.

Not necessarily true. Witnesses are heard and taken on face value, unless they’re a reason not to believe them.

For example, I couldn’t actually say I know someone who knows someone in court, because in court, that would be considered hearsay and inadmissible. I could very well say I saw something. It may be accepted or not accepted, but it’s not against the rules.

How in your mind are those the same thing?

Anecdotal and eye witness testimony is the same thing.

Anecdotal- I have only ever seen it rain when it is dark, therefor it only rains when it is dark. Anecdotal evidence is taken from personal experience and is generally not backed up by long term observation over an extended period of time. It’s the same thing as saying “The game must be dying/growing because my guild/LA/instance has seen a marked growth/decline/overflow/non overflow”.

Any anecdotal evidence must be taken with a grain of salt (or a shaker full). Just because you see something or hear something does not make it true.

Eye witness testimony is taken in the exact same manner. Five eye witnesses to a crime may see totally different things and corroboration is usually needed to make eye witness testimony worthwhile. “Two individuals said the suspect was heavyset and in their mid 40’s, while two others said the suspect was lean and very young”. Can these eyewitness accounts all be true? To the person giving the account they are true (assuming total honesty on the witnesses part), but in a courtroom or to someone who wasn’t there this evidence is worthless.

Anecdotal and eye witness accounts are the same thing.

And as far as it goes for Devs lying, I can easily bring up evidence to show them saying one thing and doing the exact opposite or just outright lying. Implementation of Ascended gear is probably the easiest example.

Dulfy is on the test server, that’s how she has the one up on the events.

The test server is not public and is by invite only.

Raine.1394:

killcannon.2576:

IndigoSundown.5419:

Vayne.8563:

But a treadmill, by definition, never ends. So if legendary is the final tier, then it can’t be a treadmill, because it’s final. That’s a definition.

You can call a bird a stone, but a bird isn’t a stone.

Legendary is not a gear tier. Legendary is a prestige skin. Legendary stats are not different than the stats of whatever the highest tier is. Thus, it cannot be thought of as a final tier. If ANet never adds another tier beyond Ascended, then Ascended would be the highest tier. We don’t yet know if that will or won’t be the case.

No definition of treadmill that I can find includes “never ends” as part of it. A treadmill does include an endless belt as one of its components. The belt is important to the treadmill’s function, but it is not the purpose of the treadmill.

That said, the function of a treadmill is to allow or cause the user to walk in place. However, the purpose of a treadmill is not to be “always on.” It is to power something or get health results. The purpose of a gear treadmill in an MMO is to promote the game’s longevity in the face of players who desire to play the game a lot. That is the purpose of Ascended.

Sometimes, people argue about the meaning of words to sidetrack from the real issues being discussed. I prefer to talk about purpose and intent rather than about whether a word that has been altered to fit a particular context is being used “properly” or not. The rapid evolution of words in popular culture means that their meaning cannot be set in stone. Thus, discussing the meanings of words is important in discourse so we know what each other is talking about. However, that discussion should be tangential to the real issues, rather than being used as a means to win an argument.

Gear treadmills serve two purposes in MMO’s that implement them as a game mechanic.

1. Progression- Allows the player to “feel” as if they are becoming more powerful compared to what they were before they had the new gear. Bigger numbers.

2. Content gating- Content can only be completed reliably by having a certain gear score or dps/armor/heal rating attributed to having said gear.

GW2 currently only follows the first purpose as implemented by game mechanics. Any current content can be completed (besides fractals) reliably with exotic or lower gear.

It is a treadmill in the sense of progression, but not in the sense of content gating. Any content gating is put in place by the players themselves, not actual game mechanics.

Whether this stays true in the future (the new Teq fight seems a lot like a dps race, and may be turned into a gear encounter instead of a skill encounter) remains to be seen.

And Legendary would be a tier of gear considering it would be a final step, with never having to invest in gear again after acquiring it.

I agree on the number of purposes, but they are actually 1) to provide a sense of character progression; and 2) to motivate play through a non-optional power progression. They are actually strongly related but separate in terms of the purposes for which VP is employed.

Content-gating is simply a side-effect of VP and not required to define it. It has nothing to do with treadmills, they are all around VP proper. The definition is complete in the two words that make up the concept. Content-gating, usually by power level, is part of the non-optional motivation to play in VP and it will always occur at some point on the power curve. This is self evident.

Uh how is it self evident if it isn’t evident?

You can have gear progression with content gating, GW2 does it (for whatever reason they have), outside of fractals.

There is zero reason to chase gear in the pve game outside of personal desire.

Vorch.2985:

killcannon.2576:

Let’s see….what did they do here to change this fight up?

Added more AOE. Increased health. Increased adds.

How do you kill Teq? Sweep the leg…still. Now with more people needed to sweep said leg. Still on a timer. Still a building model.

That’s some compelling stuff there, mission accomplished.

1. Need to remove scale stacks/poison clouds/add buffs from Turrets
2. Need to remove protect turrets (if not, timed fail state initiates)
3. DPS needs to avoid waves that get progressively larger and harder to avoid
4. Need to kill fish murder heads (fail condition)
5. Need to avoid getting swept in an underwater whirlpool

Haven’t played so I don’t know how significant each part is, but it isn’t the same encounter with a larger health pool + adds.

Also, there are rewards unique to Tequatl now. Again, don’t know what they are; however, assuming they are tradeable, that should make the run valuable.

Your numbers…they..are…bad…

1. AOE’s that can only be removed by, gasp!!, another aoe.
2. AOE’s
3. AOE’s
4. Adds
5. AOE’s

So…like I stated…AOE’s, adds, and a bigger health pool. Same encounter, same model, same timer, same attack protocol. And sweep the leg.

Not sure how the reward is part of the fight, but…ok.

Let’s see….what did they do here to change this fight up?

Added more AOE. Increased health. Increased adds.

How do you kill Teq? Sweep the leg…still. Now with more people needed to sweep said leg. Still on a timer. Still a building model.

That’s some compelling stuff there, mission accomplished.

IndigoSundown.5419:

Vayne.8563:

But a treadmill, by definition, never ends. So if legendary is the final tier, then it can’t be a treadmill, because it’s final. That’s a definition.

You can call a bird a stone, but a bird isn’t a stone.

Legendary is not a gear tier. Legendary is a prestige skin. Legendary stats are not different than the stats of whatever the highest tier is. Thus, it cannot be thought of as a final tier. If ANet never adds another tier beyond Ascended, then Ascended would be the highest tier. We don’t yet know if that will or won’t be the case.

No definition of treadmill that I can find includes “never ends” as part of it. A treadmill does include an endless belt as one of its components. The belt is important to the treadmill’s function, but it is not the purpose of the treadmill.

That said, the function of a treadmill is to allow or cause the user to walk in place. However, the purpose of a treadmill is not to be “always on.” It is to power something or get health results. The purpose of a gear treadmill in an MMO is to promote the game’s longevity in the face of players who desire to play the game a lot. That is the purpose of Ascended.

Sometimes, people argue about the meaning of words to sidetrack from the real issues being discussed. I prefer to talk about purpose and intent rather than about whether a word that has been altered to fit a particular context is being used “properly” or not. The rapid evolution of words in popular culture means that their meaning cannot be set in stone. Thus, discussing the meanings of words is important in discourse so we know what each other is talking about. However, that discussion should be tangential to the real issues, rather than being used as a means to win an argument.

Gear treadmills serve two purposes in MMO’s that implement them as a game mechanic.

1. Progression- Allows the player to “feel” as if they are becoming more powerful compared to what they were before they had the new gear. Bigger numbers.

2. Content gating- Content can only be completed reliably by having a certain gear score or dps/armor/heal rating attributed to having said gear.

GW2 currently only follows the first purpose as implemented by game mechanics. Any current content can be completed (besides fractals) reliably with exotic or lower gear.

It is a treadmill in the sense of progression, but not in the sense of content gating. Any content gating is put in place by the players themselves, not actual game mechanics.

Whether this stays true in the future (the new Teq fight seems a lot like a dps race, and may be turned into a gear encounter instead of a skill encounter) remains to be seen.

And Legendary would be a tier of gear considering it would be a final step, with never having to invest in gear again after acquiring it.

The game population is growing, regardless of anything else, or where the population stood before it started to grow. This is currently a given.

When it starts to fall again they will introduce a new system, or new reward structure to entice players back, or increase sales/player retention. If the current system works and brings in players/retains players, nothing substantial will change.

Just pay attention to the releases. When you start seeing a bunch of new ideas and systems being implemented you haven’t heard about months in advance, it means they are trying to entice players.

It ain’t rocket science.

GW2 dragons are currently under quarantine with a deadly wasting disease unofficially being termed by some as “ankleitis”. Some experts suggest that this disease was the cause of their downfall in the past and we are currently seeing it’s devastating effects upon populations of dragons currently observed in the wild.

Until a cure can be found (lol, yeah right), medical professionals are suggesting that dragons/drakes/wyverns/ and any other dragonkin to stay indoors, prop their claws up, and enjoy a season of Dancing with the Stars.

Stay tuned for further updates as they become available.

Vayne.8563:

killcannon.2576:

I agree, in a lot of mmo’s the story is lacking. It was one of the ways that I was hoping that GW2 would step out of the box, considering it’s legacy.

Have to wait and see what the future holds.

The problem is that Guild Wars 1 was completely instanced, where as Guild Wars 2 is mostly open world…and it’s much harder to “tell a story” in the open world.

In GW 1, every time you walk out into the world it’s your instance. It isn’t there for 100 players all at different places in their personal story. In Guild Wars 1, your missions were coordinated with what was going on in the open world. That’s just not possible here.

Before this game ever came out, I knew it would truly be able to be story driven. The personal story was always going to be an aside to the living world.

I don’t know. It may be nostalgia, but I have seen MMO’s tie the story into why I am doing things better than it is implemented here.

And I don’t think having a strong story in GW2 is any more impossible than not having the tank/heal/dps trinity.

Anywho, getting off topic. My final point is to tie all the content more tightly into the universe instead of making it feel separate. I think it would solve a lot of the complaints.

@ Cryx

And it wouldn’t have to be the main story arc. It could have been a small story for each one, or several tied together, or bits of lore, things in general tied to the GW2 story.

As it stands a JP…….is just a JP and that’s it. Not saying that they are not good for some people the way they are now, just saying there is a better way to tie them into the game.

Vayne.8563:

killcannon.2576:

Vayne.8563:

killcannon.2576:

Vayne.8563:

Nuka Cola.8520:

Good to see almost everyone is negative about their crappy ‘waste of new content’ jumping puzzles and only a couple of fanboys who will consider anything delivered by anet as 2nd coming of jesus appreciating their jumping puzzles. Hopefully they see this thread and start delivering the rpg element of this game instead of yet another mini this and that… How is it that in close to a year we received only one significant thing, fractals? Stop adding goofy crap and give me the reason to log in!!! adding a flute to gem store isn’t one…

Almost everyone isn’t negative about this content. Just a few people who suck at it…and that’s pretty much okay. Not all content will be for everyone.

On the other hand, anyone who claims you must be a fan boy to like something obviously has an agenda of their own.

The more you say stuff like this, the less credibility you bring to bear on any topic. Most reasonable people would dismiss this kind of prejudice..and it is prejudice. You’re basically saying anyone who likes a jumping puzzle must be a fan boy. There’s zero basis for this kind of statement.

I don’t suck at it, and it still niche. Seems a bit of a reach to say just because someone doesn’t like content they suck at it.

snip

It’s the same with the meta boss fights, that content isn’t popular either, not to say it can’t be fun. But it’s being done by the majority for the chests.

There’s no reason why it shouldn’t be in game, but the content releases seem to have a lot more focus on these kind of niche areas than with what makes a RPG strong.

Story/Combat/Character development will always be the core content of an MMORPG. These are the things which are the core experience, and these are the things that have been lacking.

More jump puzzles than strong instanced content? I think that points out a weakness in the devs content development.

Story in MMOs has always been excuses for what you’re doing. MMOS are about killing and collecting and always have been. What do the stories give you? A reason to do those things…nothing more.

All Anet has done is made the killing and collecting part of the game and added jumping to it. And a lot of people like it. Not a few…a lot. Sure it’s niche..the whole game seems niche to me.

But what does that mean?

I think you’ll find that there’s just as large a percentage of people who enjoy jumping puzzles as there are who enjoy dungeons.

It’s just my guess, but I’d wager it’s true.

It’s possible, I can’t say it’s not.

I’m not sure I agree that story is the excuse for why I do the things I do in game. I would like to see the story be the driving force and everything else flows naturally into it.

If there were story bits hidden inside jumping puzzle (there is some, but nowhere near enough), or at the ends, it would make them much more compelling. As they stand currently, the puzzles sorta stand outside of the core experience and not tied into it.

I fight to see the next bit of story, to get to the next plot line, to see what is in store for character X/Y/ or Z. Story is a bit lacking in this game because I often feel I am fighting…just because I’m fighting. More things need to be tied together into lore and story progression.

More people would enjoy the JP’s if they were tied more fully into the game instead of just feeling like tacked on content. It was the same with SAB, it just felt tacked on, not an actual part of the world. Why not tie these content releases into the overarching story lines? Why not when finishing JP’s you are shooting for continuing the story or plot progression? Instead you just have an instance (a decent instance) outside of any other part of the game, not tied to anything, no plot, no story, no reason to do it outside of the achieve and the box at the end and the challenge.

Sometimes the game can feel like a big box of parts without any coherent whole.

See, I’d agree with you in a first person RPG that the story is what drive the game, but not in an MMO. In MMOs, no matter what I’ve seen, the story is a series of reasons to explain why you have to kill this, why you have to go here, and why you need to collect ten of these plants. It’s not idea. It’s not my preference. It’s simply my experience.

Even in games like Tomb Raider, the story is just an excuse for where you have to jump through next. Without the jumping, the story wouldn’t be enough for me to bother with.

I agree, in a lot of mmo’s the story is lacking. It was one of the ways that I was hoping that GW2 would step out of the box, considering it’s legacy.

Have to wait and see what the future holds.

Vayne.8563:

killcannon.2576:

Vayne.8563:

Nuka Cola.8520:

Good to see almost everyone is negative about their crappy ‘waste of new content’ jumping puzzles and only a couple of fanboys who will consider anything delivered by anet as 2nd coming of jesus appreciating their jumping puzzles. Hopefully they see this thread and start delivering the rpg element of this game instead of yet another mini this and that… How is it that in close to a year we received only one significant thing, fractals? Stop adding goofy crap and give me the reason to log in!!! adding a flute to gem store isn’t one…

Almost everyone isn’t negative about this content. Just a few people who suck at it…and that’s pretty much okay. Not all content will be for everyone.

On the other hand, anyone who claims you must be a fan boy to like something obviously has an agenda of their own.

The more you say stuff like this, the less credibility you bring to bear on any topic. Most reasonable people would dismiss this kind of prejudice..and it is prejudice. You’re basically saying anyone who likes a jumping puzzle must be a fan boy. There’s zero basis for this kind of statement.

I don’t suck at it, and it still niche. Seems a bit of a reach to say just because someone doesn’t like content they suck at it.

It’s a good thing it’s in the game, because it gives more people more things to do, and occasionally everyone likes to step outside the box and do something a little different. They are done for the reward (achieves for LS or chests with exo’s or daily/monthly), not because everyone likes them. All you have to do to see the truth of that is look for the amount of Mesmers offering ports.

It’s the same with the meta boss fights, that content isn’t popular either, not to say it can’t be fun. But it’s being done by the majority for the chests.

There’s no reason why it shouldn’t be in game, but the content releases seem to have a lot more focus on these kind of niche areas than with what makes a RPG strong.

Story/Combat/Character development will always be the core content of an MMORPG. These are the things which are the core experience, and these are the things that have been lacking.

More jump puzzles than strong instanced content? I think that points out a weakness in the devs content development.

Story in MMOs has always been excuses for what you’re doing. MMOS are about killing and collecting and always have been. What do the stories give you? A reason to do those things…nothing more.

All Anet has done is made the killing and collecting part of the game and added jumping to it. And a lot of people like it. Not a few…a lot. Sure it’s niche..the whole game seems niche to me.

But what does that mean?

I think you’ll find that there’s just as large a percentage of people who enjoy jumping puzzles as there are who enjoy dungeons.

It’s just my guess, but I’d wager it’s true.

It’s possible, I can’t say it’s not.

I’m not sure I agree that story is the excuse for why I do the things I do in game. I would like to see the story be the driving force and everything else flows naturally into it.

If there were story bits hidden inside jumping puzzle (there is some, but nowhere near enough), or at the ends, it would make them much more compelling. As they stand currently, the puzzles sorta stand outside of the core experience and not tied into it.

I fight to see the next bit of story, to get to the next plot line, to see what is in store for character X/Y/ or Z. Story is a bit lacking in this game because I often feel I am fighting…just because I’m fighting. More things need to be tied together into lore and story progression.

More people would enjoy the JP’s if they were tied more fully into the game instead of just feeling like tacked on content. It was the same with SAB, it just felt tacked on, not an actual part of the world. Why not tie these content releases into the overarching story lines? Why not when finishing JP’s you are shooting for continuing the story or plot progression? Instead you just have an instance (a decent instance) outside of any other part of the game, not tied to anything, no plot, no story, no reason to do it outside of the achieve and the box at the end and the challenge.

Sometimes the game can feel like a big box of parts without any coherent whole.

Vayne.8563:

Nuka Cola.8520:

Good to see almost everyone is negative about their crappy ‘waste of new content’ jumping puzzles and only a couple of fanboys who will consider anything delivered by anet as 2nd coming of jesus appreciating their jumping puzzles. Hopefully they see this thread and start delivering the rpg element of this game instead of yet another mini this and that… How is it that in close to a year we received only one significant thing, fractals? Stop adding goofy crap and give me the reason to log in!!! adding a flute to gem store isn’t one…

Almost everyone isn’t negative about this content. Just a few people who suck at it…and that’s pretty much okay. Not all content will be for everyone.

On the other hand, anyone who claims you must be a fan boy to like something obviously has an agenda of their own.

The more you say stuff like this, the less credibility you bring to bear on any topic. Most reasonable people would dismiss this kind of prejudice..and it is prejudice. You’re basically saying anyone who likes a jumping puzzle must be a fan boy. There’s zero basis for this kind of statement.

I don’t suck at it, and it still niche. Seems a bit of a reach to say just because someone doesn’t like content they suck at it.

It’s a good thing it’s in the game, because it gives more people more things to do, and occasionally everyone likes to step outside the box and do something a little different. They have been mostly done for the rewards (achieves for LS or chests with exo’s or daily/monthly), not because everyone likes them. All you have to do to see the truth of that is look for the amount of Mesmers offering ports.

It’s the same with the meta boss fights, that content isn’t popular either, not to say it can’t be fun. But it’s being done by the majority for the chests.

There’s no reason why it shouldn’t be in game, but the content releases seem to have a lot more focus on these kind of niche areas than with what makes a RPG strong.

Story/Combat/Character development will always be the core content of an MMORPG. These are the things which are the core experience, and these are the things that have been lacking.

More jump puzzles than strong instanced content? I think that points out a weakness in the devs content development teams.

Devata.6589:

Lankybrit.4598:

Vayne.8563:

What’s the reason for lockouts? Slowing people down. And of course the rep grind, 25 daily quests, they want you slowed down.

Guild Wars 2 dailies are NOTHING compared to WoW dailies.

To be fair. You don’t need to do any dailies to gear up in 5.3, and they’re completely removing the rep requirements from gear in 5.4 So, I think even Blizz sees that these dailies were a bad idea.

Cheers.

Honest question.. what was the unique currency you got in WoW with daily’s? Here we have Laurels but I had the idea that in WoW daily’s where not much more then normal quest with the difference that you could do it on a daily base (well maybe with some better loot but nothing unique like laurels). But I might be wrong.

Edit:
I just look it up: http://www.wowwiki.com/Daily_quest
So it’s just a normal quest with better loot that you can do on a daily base. It does not have some unique currency as GW2 and you could even farm daily’s as you could do up to 25 and now as many as available.

Now I might be missing something but then I think there daily system is no problem because even if you reached the max of 25 daily’s or now the max of daily quest in the game you can still get the same stuff from other quest. Sure you might need to do 3 of them but as I read it here it should be possible. Not some unique drop.

So if I am not missing something they did not really have content time-gated (there where other, maybe harder but still other ways to get the loot) daily’s making there daily’s better then the time-gates laurels in GW2.

Some, but not all, were for rep grind. Not a currency per se, but a way to rank up to get certain rewards. Think the way achieve rewards are handled here and you would be on the right track.

The rep dailies were a time gate, but there were ways you could speed up that time by doing certain dungeons, or killing certain enemies, or turning in certain items. It’s a less limited form of time gating than laurels.

Time gating in general here has to be more severe due to there being less progression in other areas of the game.

zenleto.6179:

Oh, come on killcannon! You’ve seen gaming forums. I’m surprised you had any hope left!

Too true. +1

LordByron.8369:

killcannon.2576:

I’m pretty sure people run instances in other stats than zerker.

Scratch that, I know they do.

Actually NO.
Unless they are subotpimal party.

You want at most 1 (only 1) support guardian to have vitality healing and stuff.
But other 4 MUST be zerker everywhere from arah to cof to fotm 48.

Mostly because the game is way easier in zerker.

No they don’t run dungeons in sets other than zerk? lmao

Zerk may be optimal for a skilled player who knows the dungeon mechanics of whatever run they are doing, but it does not change the fact that you can complete any dungeon run, and quite quickly if you know the run, with any group composition and any combination of stats.

Most of this is from people who are unable to run in zerker gear, for whatever reason, so they want to take others seeming superiority away. Run in what you enjoy, build what you like playing, play the professions you want to play. There is nothing in this game that you can’t accomplish with the tools at hand.

This is, and always will be, a l2p issue.

Krosslite.1950:

killcannon.2576:

Folks are forgetting that this is a MMO (massive MULTI-player online game). Remember you are not the only person playing

Please remember we share Tyria not own it out right

When people decide to make their own MMO, then they can start making their own rules.

Until then…..

Since you like to plug me for documentation all the time

GUILD WARS 2 STRATEGY GUIDE
Published by Bradygames

Page 43

“A NOTE ABOUT ETIQUETTE

Etiquette in any MMO can be boiled down to one simple rule: treat other people as you’d like to be treated. You’ll rarely upset people by treating them respectfully. If you’re friendly, most people will respond in kind."

bloodletting wolf.2837:

There are far more annoying things that happen because of other players than this. Play the way you want.

I agree there are other things that take place that are “more annoying” but if you start with the little stuff and go from there you will learn to be respectful in the long run.

As for “Play the way you want” This is actually against the rules of conduct for this game.

Item 1 – While playing Guild Wars 2, you must respect the rights of others and their rights to play and enjoy the Game. To this end, you may not defraud, harass, threaten, embarrass or cause distress and/or unwanted attention to other players. This includes posting insulting, offensive, or abusive comments about players, repeatedly sending unwanted messages, reporting players maliciously, attacking a player based on race, sexual orientation, religion, heritage, etc. Hate speech is not tolerated.

I just got quoted a BradyGames strategy guide….I have officially lost all hope in humanity.

Ignore the uproar, it will be gone in a month.

They will probably release a quaggan dressed up as Batman to quell the masses.

It’s like stepping into a time machine.

All the same arguments, and it will have the same result.

Ascended didn’t end up breaking the game before nor did it add the dreaded “treadmill”.

Save your time folks, don’t bother with this thread, just go read posts from back in November.

Folks are forgetting that this is a MMO (massive MULTI-player online game). Remember you are not the only person playing

Please remember we share Tyria not own it out right

When people decide to make their own MMO, then they can start making their own rules.

Until then…..

Wolfheart.1938:

Upvoting a post from Killcannon

Upvoting a post from Wolfheart….hell, I will upvote all your posts for the next two weeks.

I’m pretty sure people run instances in other stats than zerker.

Scratch that, I know they do.

Vayne.8563:

Well, Anet released a historical mission pack for Guild Wars 1, which sold in the cash shop. It wasn’t really a group activity though, it was solo, but aside from that, it was far more story oriented than any dungeon in the game.

I think that Anet could do something similar for Guild Wars 2 (though I don’t expect them to do so). It would be pretty cool through of they did.

This is a good idea, +1

Zenith.6403:

Materials and mystic forge items are part of the itemization. There’s gathering nodes that allow you to gather materials for gear that is suited for level 40 character, but once you reach level 80 on your character you’re going to stay level 80 forever. These nodes are still serving you crafting materials you don’t need. There’s lots of examples like this to be found.

Someone else needs those crafting mats, that’s why you can sell them. You can also use them for alts, or for in game mechanics currently found in this months LS and in previously released LS. Or you can tp some of the gear you get-one of the best ways to gear an alt is to buy from the tp as you level.

The sheer amount of blues and greens that randomly drop should probably be toned down a bit though and replaced with monetary rewards. Even with all the salvaging I currently do, I still just vendor most of my blues.

But regardless of anything else, it’s copied from games such as Diablo. Some player types enjoy getting drops, even if they are useless. It’s just a way to appeal to different types of players.

lol, Queensdale is just a microcosm for the rest of the game.

Shatterer up>kill it>port to Claw>kill it>port to Fire elem>kill it>port to Teq>kill it>port to SB>kill it>lull in timers>run CoF>add in whichever event you like ad nauseum

This isn’t new.

Raine.1394:

killcannon.2576:

You’re thinking of it as an entirely gear or stat based form of mechanic, which it isn’t. Vertical progression simply means it moves you above other players who have not “progressed”.

The Living Story is a form of VP. It’s one of the only new forms of AP being added to the game. Accrue enough points, and your character becomes “better”
Laurels are a form of VP for the same reasons. The person who does them more, gets more “stuff”.
Fractals are a form of VP
Leveling anything is a form of VP
New skills are a form of VP, if they are more powerful or more useful in situations than old skills. It progresses players above where they were before when they didn’t have those skills.

What you are describing is “power creep” which is a symptom of gear related vertical progression. Which is actually what GW2 wants to get rid of, not VP.

Vertical progression is a part of 99% of games, including GW1. It just wasn’t gear progression. A new player is not equal to a veteran in GW1. They can’t do all the content that a vet can. That’s the easiest way to see it. If you can say that a brand new player can do everything a veteran can in GW1 , then I would agree that it has no VP, but from what I understand…they can’t. Even some of the cosmetics were vertical progression from what I understood.

Yes, I am suggesting that vertical progression is progression in power and, as such, is synonymous with “power creep”. You could fully discuss vertical progression and it’s inherent problems, use the term power creep, and lose nothing at all.

And, it’s why Mike O, contrary to killcannon’s assertions to the contrary, can assert that GW did not have vertical progression. My assertion is that progression in some form is present within 99% of games. Most MMO’s, arpgs, et al have vertical progression. Guild Wars did not. On this one, I think like Mike.

I really can’t argue this further as the understanding is definitional. There is a video by Taugrim where he explains why he believes horizontal progression is preferable and perhaps it could help with the distinctions involved. He uses the term “scaling” instead of progression.

Edit: the link, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0Zn81sY7pqI

lol.
Raine answer the question.
Can a new player do all the same content a veteran player can in GW1 without looking for or attaining better skills? Do these other skills you do not start with make the content easier?

Honestly, I don’t care one way or another simply because this isn’t GW1.

Ision.3207:

Stat based vertical progression is the topic at hand. It is this regard, and only this regard, where VP has a negative effect on gameplay. All of the other forms of VP people have mentioned do not create a combat power disparity between players. And NO, the long (too long) 1-80 leveling (aka: learn your class) process you have to go through before reaching the exotic weapon/armor power plateau (that was meant to be final), that in itself is not the introduction of stat-based vertical progression – because that process has (or was supposed to have) a definite and easily achievable end point.

Look it’s this simple, some people, perhaps a small percentage of gamers – I don’t know —- but some players would like to play a 100% skill-based horizontal progression mmo. One that once you reach max level and attain max gear through your learning process (leveling) then leaves you with a 100% equal footing (stat wise) with others that have done the same. And these players would like this for every aspect of the game (PvE, WvW, PvP …). And this, precisely this, was what GW2 was marketed as for years.

So please, PLEASE allow me this one small corner of the MMO market for my gaming style. And in exchange, I promise, I will never-ever whine and throw temper tantrums in the WoW or Lotro forums for them to re-invent their games to suit my play style, and at the expense of the people that play those games precisely because they have stat-based vertical progression.

Well then…I think you found a home here. or not?

This is the most shallow, and friendly vertical gear progression mmo game I have ever seen. And they essentially give you the high end stuff just for showing up and killing ten bandits everyday regardless, or doing a jumping puzzles or just getting normal achievement points now. In almost any other game you have to do specific content to get the top gear, here you just do what you want. It’s a haven for Casual MMO players.

And you don’t even need it when it comes down to it.

You’re thinking of it as an entirely gear or stat based form of mechanic, which it isn’t. Vertical progression simply means it moves you above other players who have not “progressed”.

The Living Story is a form of VP. It’s one of the only new forms of AP being added to the game. Accrue enough points, and your character becomes “better”
Laurels are a form of VP for the same reasons. The person who does them more, gets more “stuff”.
Fractals are a form of VP
Leveling anything is a form of VP
New skills are a form of VP, if they are more powerful or more useful in situations than old skills. It progresses players above where they were before when they didn’t have those skills.

What you are describing is “power creep” which is a symptom of gear related vertical progression. Which is actually what GW2 wants to get rid of, not VP.

Vertical progression is a part of 99% of games, including GW1. It just wasn’t gear progression. A new player is not equal to a veteran in GW1. They can’t do all the content that a vet can. That’s the easiest way to see it. If you can say that a brand new player can do everything a veteran can in GW1 , then I would agree that it has no VP, but from what I understand…they can’t. Even some of the cosmetics were vertical progression from what I understood.