Guild Wars 2

Geotherma.2395:

killcannon.2576:

Geotherma.2395:

Globs of Ectoplasm can now be salvaged into Piles of Crystalline Dust. This change should help Globs of Ectoplasm maintain a strong value in the economy and lower the cost of Crystalline Dust.

Someone was saying?

This fix went a tad overboard….again.

It should even out, but people complained anet should step in, you get what you wish for I suppose :P

I guess. It’s a good thing moving forward I suppose.

Geotherma.2395:

Globs of Ectoplasm can now be salvaged into Piles of Crystalline Dust. This change should help Globs of Ectoplasm maintain a strong value in the economy and lower the cost of Crystalline Dust.

Someone was saying?

This fix went a tad overboard….again.

Astralporing.1957:

Vayne.8563:

As long as the bulk of the population wants things fast (and your fast isn’t everyone else’s fast, you’re pretty reasonable), MMORPGs will continue to suffer the same fate they’ve had these last five years. It’s the reliance on loot (and again I’m not saying YOUR reliance on loot, I’m talking generally) that has really sunk this genre for many of us.

Ironically, to remove the reliance on loot from the game, you need to make the loot easier to acquire, not harder. You also shouldn’t put into the game things that are labeled as “special”, “ultra-cool”, or “endgame”.

Imagine, how this game would have looked if there were no ascended eq, and no legendaries (current legendaries being reduced to the same status that other expensive exotic forge skins have, with comparable cost).

Astral has an excellent point.

Sad to see you go, hopefully they will add some compelling content to bring you back. If not, may the road always rise to meet you and the wind be always at your back.

First toon was a Human Ele, mostly because I was used to playing a mage type character in that “other game”. Lol, I quickly found out just how different this game was from that one. I’ve stuck with my Ele through good times and bad, changing some builds here- some armor there. I still consider him my main to run most content with. I’ve also raised a Charr Warrior who I enjoy playing greatly, and a Sylvari Ranger which I mostly use to farm. Each of these are like pseudo mains to me.

Dawdler.8521:

Yeah go pure dps, its the only way to avoid enemy flak if you do dungeons with other dps.

Unless of course you want to laugh throughout the dungeon and watch the dpsers constantly die for no apparent reason while the same mob barely tickle you, in that case by all means go hybrid/tank.

Also, please go pure dps in WvW. Really, its awesome against our guild train, we dont drop dps like flies at all, trust me. If only more people went dps so we had more challenge, sigh… Only kittenty guilds go PvT. Honestly.

I run both sets for my warrior, a full tanky set- pvt and healing, and almost full zerk set with some healing accessories. The tank build is only good in certain situations and usually utilities and having skills that give you vigor are more than enough to help you survive with a zerk set. The game just isn’t built around having your armor save you at all and vitality and toughness just don’t have the synergy with skills that power/critical/ and crit dmg do. Your own skills and the skills/traits of your build will save you 50 times more than stacking vitality and toughness ever will.

The Demonic Spirit.3157:

So pure is always better than hybrid ?

Yes. Pick what you want to do and do it the best you can. Warning: There is no real reason to go full heals.

Wryscher.1432:

killcannon.2576:

Half measures usually end up with the player character lying in a pool of their own blood, so it’s probably a good idea to pick a direction for your character.

Unless you are a guardian. Then by all means dps/tank/ healer it is.

lol, good point.

Half measures usually end up with the player character lying in a pool of their own blood, so it’s probably a good idea to pick a direction for your character.

It needs to quit trying to appeal to everyone for a start. The developers have a vision, just stick to it.
Don’t try to appeal to the GW1 crowd.
Don’t try to appeal to the WoW crowd.
It’s neither one of those games. They decided to break the stereotype, now just stay with it.

Start trying to please the GW2 crowd instead.
Focus on your core gameplay.
Drop the esports thing, it’s ridiculous.
Build meaningful lore and in game relationships between npcs and the player.
Tie world vs world into the pve world more.
Give people meaningful choices in progression (not talking about vertical gear).
Increase the amount of time it takes to level by an order of 2 maybe 3.
Remove exp gains from crafting and make crafting meaningful and impactful to the world.
Reduce the amount of green and blue drops from mobs-make karma rewards more meaningful for gear as you level- make crafting more meaningful to gear up.
Tie precursor attainment into World completion-make precursors and legendaries account bound on pick up.
Stop with random drops from random mobs- this happens to a smaller extent now, but needs to be expanded upon- NO MORE BAGS moldy or otherwise.
Make a substantial amount of level 80 only dungeons and content.
Make going back to earlier areas MEAN something instead of killing a meta boss for a chest or finishing a daily.

Oh yeah, remove the frakking timers.
And remove the Legend of Zelda arbitrary death stuff, and crazy gimmicks from the dungeons. These are some of the worst things I have seen in any game I have ever played.

It could be they started removing account info as well. Or they increased how many accounts each server can hold.

\Soon™ Go play Crab Toss instead./

Where is the sarcasm font when you need it.

Chewablesleeptablet.3185:

eisberg.2379:

They have been selling skins that are exclusive to the Store since Guild Wars 1. This is something that has been known since before the game released. The only thing I can agree with you is the gambling involved. I would prefer to have the skins available for X amount of Gems. But other then that, I disagree having skins in the store exclusively is a bad idea.

The skins that were sold in GW1 were minimal. It just seems that Anet is never going to release anymore skins unless they are sold in the Gemstore or from temporary content(which I heard they are not going to do anymore I pray).

Chewablesleeptablet.3185:

Chewablesleeptablet.3185:

Seems as though the only real way to get the new skins from the new content is through the gem store. This IMO is a terrible decision by Anet.

If people don’t want to spend the cash they have to grind for hours on end. This is starting to sound more like a f2p business model. GW2 was supposed to be B2P.

Why can’t players get skins the reasonable way? You know, without having to get a super rare drop chest, then getting the super rare weapon ticket?

The Reasonable way would be getting the weapon/armor skins to drop from enemies in the appropriate zone. At least then people could sell the skins on the TP or maybe even give them to friends.

Same goes with town clothes. Why can’t we earn those from other means; such as doing an event in major cities? Oh wait, there aren’t any events in major cities, the cities are static.

All Weapon and Armor skins should be obtainable by actually playing the game. Not by farming gold, then converting it to gems, then buying keys or the skins in the gem store. It is very boring that way. Lets not forget how bad the RNG is.

TL:DR

Everything should be obtainable from in-game activities instead of wasting money in a gemstore. The boosts can be left in the Gem store for all I care.

You’d have a point if this was a sub game, but it isn’t. Real money stores are a part of the bargain for the buy to play model, just something you have to deal with.

And a sub game has what to do with this? Is Anet really under budget? If Anet was so strapped for cash , then why don’t they get their daddy “NCsoft” to front them some money from the success of the publisher’s game pool? At least make it so there is no RNG, and the skins are like 100- 200 gems each. The exchange economy would balance out whatever happens.

If you don’t know what payment models have to do with it, then I don’t think anyone can help you. Good luck with your thread.

Chewablesleeptablet.3185:

Seems as though the only real way to get the new skins from the new content is through the gem store. This IMO is a terrible decision by Anet.

If people don’t want to spend the cash they have to grind for hours on end. This is starting to sound more like a f2p business model. GW2 was supposed to be B2P.

Why can’t players get skins the reasonable way? You know, without having to get a super rare drop chest, then getting the super rare weapon ticket?

The Reasonable way would be getting the weapon/armor skins to drop from enemies in the appropriate zone. At least then people could sell the skins on the TP or maybe even give them to friends.

Same goes with town clothes. Why can’t we earn those from other means; such as doing an event in major cities? Oh wait, there aren’t any events in major cities, the cities are static.

All Weapon and Armor skins should be obtainable by actually playing the game. Not by farming gold, then converting it to gems, then buying keys or the skins in the gem store. It is very boring that way. Lets not forget how bad the RNG is.

TL:DR

Everything should be obtainable from in-game activities instead of wasting money in a gemstore. The boosts can be left in the Gem store for all I care.

You’d have a point if this was a sub game, but it isn’t. Real money stores are a part of the bargain for the buy to play model, just something you have to deal with.

It can stream games from your pc….so I guess if you like to play GW2 on a really small screen with a controller, go for it.

A decent rule of thumb is : Look at the WvW rankings, Higher tier servers usually have higher populations.

This is not always true, but it’s better than just looking at server loads.

There are many traits/sigils which proc a condition upon critical. If you are running a condition class these can be of great use and precision and condi dmg can go hand in hand.

That sword looks awesome. I hate to say it….but I may have to buy rng boxes.

ColinJohanson.2394:

Zoia.3678:

I’m quite happy with the amount of updates in GW2, but I wish more of it was permanent.

We’ve been playing around so far this year with a lot of different concepts to see what works for a living world game, and see what players liked and didn’t like. Based on all of your feedback, you’ll be seeing a greater degree of permanent content built into future living world releases in 2013. And of course, some things you’ve seen before may return again, in its current form but updated like SAB or holiday festivals, or in a new form entirely….

We’ve got a few more updates coming more along the lines of what we’ve done so far in the vein of holiday festivals, but as the year progresses we’re going to layer more permanent changes and content as well with each living world release. I’ll toss a blog post up in a couple of weeks that outlines high level, where we’re taking our living world style updates specifically in the future for more clear transparency once we’ve got it all ironed out.

As always all of your feedback and comments are greatly appreciated, we’ll continue to adapt and grow this strategy and concept as we go. As we’ve said before, we’re trying something very new and different here, and in some ways we’re learning along with all of you how we make a living world style game work.

Thank you very…very…very…very much.

Vayne.8563:

No the game doesn’t need you to buy gems TO FUNCTION. The game can function fine without people buying gems. But functioning is not the same thing as continuously adding content or having monthly content updates. Those things are EXTRA. They’re not part of what you bought. The money of them has to come from somewhere. It comes from sales in the gem store.

If no one bought gems, this game would soon have no new content at all, and that is, eventually, the death knell of any MMO.

Some people do it by subscription. Some people do it with pay to win. Anet does it with the cash shop…I’m guessing particularly RNG.

300 devs are not still getting paid from the new sales of the game. It’s just not possible. Not in any world I know.

But yes, the game in the box, you can play that until they close the servers on the $60 you’ve spent.

You are right, buying gems can support more content creation. And you should support the games you like with money. But, I don’t think people should buy things they don’t really like in the gemstore just because they want to support the game. The creators behind the items in the store should be challenged to create things that appeal to everyone, not just bronies and furries. The quiver, shield, and mace skins are good examples of quality gemstore content (for me). And I bought those. Not because I felt the need to support anyone, but because they released a product I wanted. The same way GW2 was a product I wanted, so I bought that.

Vayne.8563:

digiowl.9620:

Honestly i sometimes wonder of the PVE team got the message about the game mechanics, as they love to get up waves of mobs that belong more in a game offer mass amount of AOE control with long effect durations. But the game do not offer that, and the rest of the defensive skills are on long cooldowns are rarely effective against more than one mob. Resulting in the paradox that multiple “trash” mobs are more threatening than a single big mob, because the latter we can handle via dodges and interrupts.

This is actually one of the things I like about the game. It’s why Harathi Hinterlands is one of my favorite zones. I don’t care about the big boss, because I don’t buy into it as much as the attacking army.

I mean if an army of undead or centaurs or anything attacked me, it should be more dangerous than one guy…maybe it’s me, but this is one of the things I like.

Agree with Vayne, it’s times when I am mobbed by enemies that I feel challenged as a character and have a feeling of accomplishment when coming out of the battle alive. It can really test your abilities as a player sometimes.

Vayne.8563:

killcannon.2576:

I do not “expect” anything. I didn’t make the payment model. You are better off asking Anet what they expect, not me. I’m not worried about whether the devs get paid, get vacations, have new cars, or anything else doing with their personal lives. I don’t care how they pay to make the content. NONE of that MATTERS. They chose to go the buy to play route with all that entails. If they can’t pay whatever expenses they have with their payment model, then they need to change the payment model. Absolutely none of this is the players problem. It’s the devs problem. If the content is not good enough to support their business, then they need to MAKE BETTER CONTENT. They aren’t a welfare recipient, and I am not paying for stuff I do not want or like.

Your entire post is made from assumptions with which you base other assumptions on. You have no clue how much money is being paid out for costs, being taken in by box sales, where the money is being allocated to, how much it costs to develop in game content, whether some or all of this content was already made and being slowly parsed out, how much money is invested in the gem store, how much it profits, and on and on and on. You have zero facts. ZERO. This is the worst argument I have ever seen you put forth.

It’s not my or any other players responsibility to fund this game through gem sales. It is ANETS JOB to make me want to buy gems and stuff from the gemstore Period.

Actually it’s not.

It’s Anet’s job to make a game that encourages people in general, not you specifically to spend money on the gem store. And if a large enough percentage of those people do, people like you become superfluous.

Because people like you probably aren’t the target market.

As long as people who play MMOs BELIEVE they need to support them, they’ll continue to support them. There are probably enough of us out here to do it without you.

I would encourage you to take a look at the marketing materials, look at the word usage within those marketing materials, and then come back here-make a new topic, post in this one-and regale us with what terms make you think that the game says it is targeted to people who need to buy gems. Or that the game needs you to buy gems in order to function.

If you believe you need to buy gems, go for it. I’m not against buying gems, not against people who want to buy gems, not against the gem store. Feel free to buy as many pixels as you want. You still will never be any more important than anyone else in game. Gem elitists, now I have seen everything.

I do not “expect” anything. I didn’t make the payment model. You are better off asking Anet what they expect, not me. I’m not worried about whether the devs get paid, get vacations, have new cars, or anything else doing with their personal lives. I don’t care how they pay to make the content. NONE of that MATTERS. They chose to go the buy to play route with all that entails. If they can’t pay whatever expenses they have with their payment model, then they need to change the payment model. Absolutely none of this is the players problem. It’s the devs problem. If the content is not good enough to support their business, then they need to MAKE BETTER CONTENT. They aren’t a welfare recipient, and I am not paying for stuff I do not want or like.

Your entire post is made from assumptions with which you base other assumptions on. You have no clue how much money is being paid out for costs, being taken in by box sales, where the money is being allocated to, how much it costs to develop in game content, whether some or all of this content was already made and being slowly parsed out, how much money is invested in the gem store, how much it profits, and on and on and on. You have zero facts. ZERO. This is the worst argument I have ever seen you put forth.

It’s not my or any other players responsibility to fund this game through gem sales. It is ANETS JOB to make me want to buy gems and stuff from the gemstore Period.

If you wish to be willfully obtuse, that is your choice. I can’t help you with that. Feel free to just make up whatever definition suits your reality.

Everyone knows what Free to Play means…no upfront cost, and paywalls for game content. Everyone knows what buy to play means- upfront cost, no paywalls for content. The day that GW2 starts putting up paywalls for game content outside of expansions-not that gimmicky stuff they do now- you can start measuring the pine box and buying the nails.

Geotherma.2395:

killcannon.2576:

Geotherma.2395:

killcannon.2576:

TheProphetOmega.3596:

You also bought any updates, patches, and people that came along with it. That was their choice in going for the model they chose, and it was and is a very good model. It made many buy the game who may not have otherwise.

Free advice: Don’t go with the ToS argument, it comes off really badly.

It always makes me wonder why you say this. I’m curious why you think the box sales means we paid for all future content and it should be free? I buy a car, I get the car as is, I may get a warranty but I don’t get lifetime repair. In a free to play game I get lifetime updates/content unless they state otherwise. But as a business how can you say that the box sales is enough to foster endless updates and expansions? If this were the case, then removing the gem store altogether would mean we could just go on getting updates forever right? because we paid for the box? I just don’t get this, maybe I’m misunderstanding it, but you say it often. Imo Gem sales are what pays for future content, after basic deductions for salary, overhead etc are taken care of. Granted they have a larger pool of money to work with, but surviving off of original sales as a model to survive just seems silly. You need after purchase revenue in any business for longevity, and that’s the purpose of the gem store. So when we support that store we are paying for content in the future. When you say the box sale means we deserve everything free forever without ever contributing just sounds entitled. But again, maybe I’m misunderstanding.

I almost typed out my reasoning behind my opinion, then thought better of it. If you want to know the difference in the payment models for mmo’s, go google it.

As it stands, if you feel like supporting them over and above the box sale, go for it. If there is something I want in the gemstore I buy it, but it’s because I want to, not because I feel an obligation. It was their choice to go the buy to play model, if or when they decide to eschew this model for the free to play model, or subscription is entirely their choice as well.

Free to play means free to play
Buy to play means buy to play
Pay to play means pay to play

What kind of game is this to you? Because it sounds like you are saying it’s a pay to play game.

I don’t feel obligated to pay anything, or to pay to enjoy. Since it is free, if I see something I like I buy it. If I didn’t like/support the game I would never put funds into it. As with any company I show my support and approval through cash, the best known language of business. If I like a certain store, i go there to shop because I agree with its model, its designs, or its prices. If I don’t i simply go elsewhere. I don’t feel obligated to pay money for content, but I know my money goes towards it. If I didn’t want the content, didn’t care for content, didn’t care for the game I would go elsewhere. It is a B2P game yes, and I have a choice to support it by buying things. Not because I’m obligated but because it shows support.

That support turns into more content for me to further enjoy or not enjoy. When they lack the content to make me happy, when things are too utterly ruined or unplayable that I am no longer happy, then I will discontinue buying things. I, as with others like myself, speak with our cash, because Arenanet and every business can understand that language. A language that is much clearer, much more efficient than silly rants about dying games, or promotional threads for the “next big MMO” , or the new “WoW/GW2 killer”. I have better things to do that squabble with those kinds of threads, like buy a teddy bear hat. Not because I like teddy bear hats, but because my asura looks flipping adorable with it. Bonus is that it supports the game, maybe that Axe will be epic, maybe I’ll buy that too. All that translates into $$$, $$$ $$$ $$ $ $$$ $$ . Not to say I’m only paying for/supporting gem shop items, I am highly anticipating dragon stuff, as is my 6 year old son. So here Anet, here’s my 400 gems for hats, and a thank you for dragon pinatas and chocob… I mean Moa races.

You believe in the power of metrics then. Which is a great way to show blanket support for something. The saying “Here’s my money, take it.” more or less. It’s all good.

The drawback to metrics is that it’s mostly binary. It’s either doing well, or not doing well (selling/making money-not selling/making money). There is little way to tell why it is or not selling well though without feedback, and the only way to implement change is through blind modifications and what the designers themselves think.

The language of metrics is actually not clear or more efficient than metrics and feedback combined, and usually does more to muddy the waters than to make things clear.

Geotherma.2395:

killcannon.2576:

TheProphetOmega.3596:

@killcannon you say
“Customer feedback is important, one of the big three. Feedback, metrics, and listening (or communication). These three things are the key to improving any service. And an MMO is not a point of sale thing, but a service.”

but this game is both, its not an MMORPG in the traditional sense, it has a buy once model of distribution, and the added content could be considered a plus in the bundle, since the game does not have a monthly payment component any extra features are nothing more than nice extras, they are not bound to give us anything else, they already have our money anyway, besides reading the ToS, we don’t even “own” the software, and even if we did “own” it, it would be sold AS IS, and again, by accepting the ToS they could not be held liable under any means, even if using the software somehow affected you negatively in any way, so…

oh and about that comment on entropy, well its not that some people “just like entropy” and if we define entropy as the wearing down of the component parts of a CLOSED system because of heat, then everything is in a way moving towards entropy, change is the way the universe moves forward, that change means things will eventually wear down and pass away, nothing is eternal, we all die in the end, so moving on is actually the most efficient way of change, attrition can and has won wars, but its not as efficient as say, nuking or just letting things go.

You also bought any updates, patches, and people that came along with it. That was their choice in going for the model they chose, and it was and is a very good model. It made many buy the game who may not have otherwise.

Free advice: Don’t go with the ToS argument, it comes off really badly.

It always makes me wonder why you say this. I’m curious why you think the box sales means we paid for all future content and it should be free? I buy a car, I get the car as is, I may get a warranty but I don’t get lifetime repair. In a free to play game I get lifetime updates/content unless they state otherwise. But as a business how can you say that the box sales is enough to foster endless updates and expansions? If this were the case, then removing the gem store altogether would mean we could just go on getting updates forever right? because we paid for the box? I just don’t get this, maybe I’m misunderstanding it, but you say it often. Imo Gem sales are what pays for future content, after basic deductions for salary, overhead etc are taken care of. Granted they have a larger pool of money to work with, but surviving off of original sales as a model to survive just seems silly. You need after purchase revenue in any business for longevity, and that’s the purpose of the gem store. So when we support that store we are paying for content in the future. When you say the box sale means we deserve everything free forever without ever contributing just sounds entitled. But again, maybe I’m misunderstanding.

I almost typed out my reasoning behind my opinion, then thought better of it. If you want to know the difference in the payment models for mmo’s, go google it.

As it stands, if you feel like supporting them over and above the box sale, go for it. If there is something I want in the gemstore I buy it, but it’s because I want to, not because I feel an obligation. It was their choice to go the buy to play model, if or when they decide to eschew this model for the free to play model, or subscription is entirely their choice as well.

Free to play means free to play
Buy to play means buy to play
Pay to play means pay to play

What kind of game is this to you? Because it sounds like you are saying it’s a pay to play game.

Sovta.4719:

Geotherma.2395:

Sovta.4719:

Mirta.5029:

Sovta.4719:

Lol, i doubt gw2 is even on top 10 of MMO (popularity wise) at this state. (wow, star wars, runes of magic, lineage, vindictus, runescape……)

I think that you really don’t realize how many users star wars has lost.
I think that it would be somewhere on the top 10. Especially with old MMOs loosing users. (Though I imagine WoW, lineage and runescape are still standing as giants)

I think YOU don’t realize how many users gw2 lost/IS losing.
Star wars had pretty good bump at player numbers when they went f2p. I could say more names for MMO, but for some i’m not sure (like Alods)

To be honest, neither do you. You have no metrics, no statistics, no analysis that is 100% factual to prove GW2 is gaining/losing/steady. Arenanet does, and until they release those numbers, statements like these are valueless assumptions.

Yea, right. I posted again and again, i KNOW this game is losing players, just looking at wvw, spvp population and inactive members of guilds. You can try to avoid truth but it’s still there. You know there isn’t REAL endgame here, you know that living story with 2h of gameplay added (except MF) is not going to hold players for long.

Oh wait, it says high pop server so it must be true. (it’s accounts)

The game may be losing players indeed, but it does not mean it isn’t also gaining players, or that older players who have left do not return.

Without the proper metrics, which the general player base does not have access to, there is no way to accurately gauge player churn, concurrent players, or an accurate server load. Anecdotal evidence can support either a growing or shrinking player base depending upon player experience. What you are experiencing is a perceived loss of population, or you are pushing an agenda.

Jaall.3420:

killcannon.2576:

Jaall.3420:

I never used it as an example of what not to do at all. I simply used it as an example to show how GW is doing it somewhat right. People probably use WoW as an example because it’s so good everyone knows about it so easy for people to understand compared to other games that only 1/3 or half the community will have played. That’s why I used it anyway, I could have just as easily used any other mmo as an example but there is a good chance a lot of people won’t know whether it has a lot of updates or not.

You used it in a compare and contrast study. Saying that “GW2 is producing such and such, but look at WoW not doing such and such, you should be happy”.

Leaving Pandaland out of it (because apparently Blizz lost their mind), WoW content has usually centered around the 2 to 3 month release stage. This content would be equal or greater than anything that GW2 has released in the same time period, be more polished, have greater longevity, and most importantly, not be removed two weeks later. A game doesn’t have to follow the same mechanics as WoW to learn that sometimes game content should be good and compelling to your target audience when you release it.

Also, fixing bugs and class balance is their own fault, not something we are receiving. I don’t thank people for fixing something they broke in the first place.

You can take what you like from my post but you’re completely missing the point. If WoW is so good for you why not go back there? WoW is good in it’s own right but as you say, they are completely different games. Also as I stated WoW is a lot older than GW and in its first year had a lot less than we have now. WoW might release content every 2-3 months but that content was designed in the expansion and released only to those who bought that. It’s a fantastic business model and it works, and I’m not saying WoW is “bad” but GW2 has updates better, yet people seem to forget this and demand more.

I don’t get why you’re so offended that I used WoW as an example. You might wanna re-read my post explaining why I used it as an example, also re-read my first post explaining that due to the age of both games there is no real comparison. I used a comparison because without one nobody would understand that actually this game has it very good but it’s the selfish, demanding nature of a certain type of player that gives it a bad name. If we were to follow every criticism given by them nothing will ever be good.

I love the comeback “If you don’t like it leave”. Always so inspiring.

One: Never said WoW was good for me, please point me to where I said this.

Two: The two to three month content release is from patches, not expansions. I’m starting to get the feeling you are not familiar with the subject matter.

Three: Gw2 updates at about the same rate as WoW, as was stated. Except WoW uses permanent updates, not temporary ones.

Four: I’m not offended you used WoW as a model for your contrast and compare, I said I was perplexed at why you decided to use a more successful model to compare GW2 to.

Five: Age has nothing to do with the way a game releases content. It would if we were discussing amount of content overall, but since we are not I’m not sure why you are even bringing it up.

Six: It’s neither selfish or demanding to ask for compelling, interesting, polished content from game updates. Nor is it selfish or demanding to expect bug fixes and class balance. I’m not sure who wants mediocre, bland content but there sure are a lot of people defending it.

Seven: I don’t recall anyone saying they should do everything everyone asks for. That would be silly, where did you read that?

Amadan.9451:

if arenanet sits on round table with us, not only the won’t have time to release anything new, but they will probably give up with games and humanity.
also, us is not 12 people like king arthur knights, we are a lot and we “hate” each other, and we hate people that want things we hate.
how can you possibly think it’s something doable?

do telephone company in your country talks to all their customer when they decide to change taxes or something and people just go to other companies? i bet they don’t, because it’s pointless

Really? They spend about 10 or more hours each month doing roundtables, and other non development related activities already. Guess that explains why they aren’t getting anything done. Except these roundtables aren’t with random players, these players are “specially selected”. Also a roundtable is a term used for a conference where individuals meet as equals to discuss topics and is not based on an arbitrary number. I can’t speak for you, but I do not “hate” anyone on these forums. But I’m not a fanboy/girl either. That’s generally where I see the “hate” flow from.

And yes, telephone companies do get together with governments and communities to discuss rate hikes and changes in billing. They also call their customers to ask them how they are doing as a service provider.

Jaall.3420:

I never used it as an example of what not to do at all. I simply used it as an example to show how GW is doing it somewhat right. People probably use WoW as an example because it’s so good everyone knows about it so easy for people to understand compared to other games that only 1/3 or half the community will have played. That’s why I used it anyway, I could have just as easily used any other mmo as an example but there is a good chance a lot of people won’t know whether it has a lot of updates or not.

You used it in a compare and contrast study. Saying that “GW2 is producing such and such, but look at WoW not doing such and such, you should be happy”.

Leaving Pandaland out of it (because apparently Blizz lost their mind), WoW content has usually centered around the 2 to 3 month release stage. This content would be equal or greater than anything that GW2 has released in the same time period, be more polished, have greater longevity, and most importantly, not be removed two weeks later. A game doesn’t have to follow the same mechanics as WoW to learn that sometimes game content should be good and compelling to your target audience when you release it.

Also, fixing bugs and class balance is their own fault, not something we are receiving. I don’t thank people for fixing something they broke in the first place.

Jaall.3420:

It really goes to show how greedy people have gotten and how much they take things like mmos for granted. Everyone seems to forget that we get a lot of new content every 2-4 weeks!! I can’t name any other game that gets that level of updates, especially in their first year. However everyone has already got so used to that, that they demand more, and more, and more! Very few expansions have been released in the first year of a game being released, even single player console games don’t get that. We’ve had a lot of fixes, changes etc on top of living story, some of which is permanent, and every 2-4 weeks!

I get how some can be disappointing, but take a second to put it in perspective. WoW for example (just a good example to choose, because everyones heard of it) has its content that gets stale and stays that way for months until they release a new expansion. And before everyone comes along saying “well WoW has raids” it’s not much different from the amount of content we have, but its different. Seems to me there are a lot of people who really don’t like change. I don’t really understand that because WoW is still out there to be played and I reckon that game in particular will take a LOT of time to actually die, so you could just go give it a try rather than complain. And if you complain so much about GW2 yet continue to play it, there’s no helping you so I almost feel sorry for you. On a last note most other mmo’s have been out for at least twice as long as GW, so there really is no comparison.

Edit – Also in WoW you have to pay full game retail price for every expansion. This content we get is free!

I don’t understand why people use WoW as an example of what not to do. They have had more players than all other mmo’s combined. That’s not an example of a bad game or a bad way to do things. That’s an example of doing something right.

Vayne.8563:

killcannon.2576:

Vayne.8563:

killcannon.2576:

People resort to hyperbole and outbursts most often when they feel like they aren’t being listened to. Staying with the steak analogy, if the first customer calmly asked for the steak to be taken back and redone in a calm, polite manner, and then received the steak back and it was still undercooked, that customer would then be more likely to respond in an outburst.

Going with your story analogy, did you open a line of communication with your 5 detractors? Did you discuss the why’s of their critique, and then after the discussion, not changing the entire idea of your story or vision of it, adjust certain things to make it a better work for all of your intended audience? According to your small focus group, you sold a story that slightly appealed to all of them, but greatly appealed to none of them. Communicating and adjusting one’s work to appeal to your audience is a great way to increase overall appeal, while still retaining vision and personal control.

Communication after feedback opens up even more possibilities for improvement and increases customer retention and a feeling of empowerment, which increases your brands overall loyalty. Something that seems to be slipping recently.

You’ve obviously never been in a critique group before.

Of course there was a dialogue…and a lengthy one. The point is that three of the people in that group didn’t feel the central plot was “worthy” of longer treatment. Two people in that group thought the central plot was. They were completely diametrically opposed. Both couldn’t be right.

My own personal opinion of that story was that it could have been shorter (and in fact I tried writing both longer and shorter versions of it after, based on the critiques) but neither of those versions was better than the original, so that was the one I submitted.

The critiquing did help me put stuff into perspective, but didn’t end up changing the final product all that much. And as I said, the piece sold. Someone liked it enough to have bought it, which is one of the things that you have to have if you’re going to write professionally. Had I made any of the suggested changes, there’s no guarantee it would have sold.

And also no guarantee it wouldn’t have sold for more, landed you a 20 book deal somewhere, and you could be making your own MMO. What if’s rarely go anywhere though. What happened, happened.

It breaks down to this is Anet’s choice to listen to their customers or not and open up feedback. If they do, there’s more proof to support the idea that things change for all involved for the better. If not, there is ample proof of businesses who have decided to go that route left along the wayside. Their choice, and the players choice. I support the players who wish to give voice to their ideas over the ones who wish to keep them muzzled.

Actually there is a guarantee that it wouldn’t have landed me a book deal. Book deals don’t come from short stories. The particularly subject of this short story would have never made a great book…not even a novella. It wouldn’t have sold for more because there are limited markets in which to submit. They all pay roughly the same amount. So yeah, there is a guarantee here. I got what I could get for it, and I probably couldn’t have gotten any more from it.

As for those who voice their concerns, if their concerns are wildly different from each other, who does Anet listen to? The problem is not that they listen or don’t listen, the problem is what’s mostly being asked for is contradictory to other stuff being asked for.

It’s like the ascended gear issue. Some people asked for it. Anet provided it. Some people left the game over it. It’s not always so easy to say listen to your customers. This is a far more complex issue than you’re making it out to be.

Listening and providing feedback isn’t complex, the decisions that arise from that feedback and communication may be. If someone is not willing or able to make tough decisions, then game development may have been the wrong career choice.

Take for example the Ascended gear debacle. That whole situation could have been handled a thousand times better by opening up lines of communications with the players, listening to their concerns and providing feedback. Round tables could have been made, question and answer sessions could have been created, or a few other things. What happened instead? An impersonal, shoddily made, blanket statement. How many players did they lose over that one simple thing they did not do? How much trust as a development studio will they never get back? How much negative pr are they still seeing from it? Even if they had made the exact same decision in the end, it would have put them on a much better footing with their players, but they didn’t. And now they are paying the price every day.

Vayne.8563:

killcannon.2576:

People resort to hyperbole and outbursts most often when they feel like they aren’t being listened to. Staying with the steak analogy, if the first customer calmly asked for the steak to be taken back and redone in a calm, polite manner, and then received the steak back and it was still undercooked, that customer would then be more likely to respond in an outburst.

Going with your story analogy, did you open a line of communication with your 5 detractors? Did you discuss the why’s of their critique, and then after the discussion, not changing the entire idea of your story or vision of it, adjust certain things to make it a better work for all of your intended audience? According to your small focus group, you sold a story that slightly appealed to all of them, but greatly appealed to none of them. Communicating and adjusting one’s work to appeal to your audience is a great way to increase overall appeal, while still retaining vision and personal control.

Communication after feedback opens up even more possibilities for improvement and increases customer retention and a feeling of empowerment, which increases your brands overall loyalty. Something that seems to be slipping recently.

You’ve obviously never been in a critique group before.

Of course there was a dialogue…and a lengthy one. The point is that three of the people in that group didn’t feel the central plot was “worthy” of longer treatment. Two people in that group thought the central plot was. They were completely diametrically opposed. Both couldn’t be right.

My own personal opinion of that story was that it could have been shorter (and in fact I tried writing both longer and shorter versions of it after, based on the critiques) but neither of those versions was better than the original, so that was the one I submitted.

The critiquing did help me put stuff into perspective, but didn’t end up changing the final product all that much. And as I said, the piece sold. Someone liked it enough to have bought it, which is one of the things that you have to have if you’re going to write professionally. Had I made any of the suggested changes, there’s no guarantee it would have sold.

And also no guarantee it wouldn’t have sold for more, landed you a 20 book deal somewhere, and you could be making your own MMO. What if’s rarely go anywhere though. What happened, happened.

It breaks down to this is Anet’s choice to listen to their customers or not and open up feedback. If they do, there’s more proof to support the idea that things change for all involved for the better. If not, there is ample proof of businesses who have decided to go that route left along the wayside. Their choice, and the players choice. I support the players who wish to give voice to their ideas over the ones who wish to keep them muzzled.

TheProphetOmega.3596:

@killcannon you say
“Customer feedback is important, one of the big three. Feedback, metrics, and listening (or communication). These three things are the key to improving any service. And an MMO is not a point of sale thing, but a service.”

but this game is both, its not an MMORPG in the traditional sense, it has a buy once model of distribution, and the added content could be considered a plus in the bundle, since the game does not have a monthly payment component any extra features are nothing more than nice extras, they are not bound to give us anything else, they already have our money anyway, besides reading the ToS, we don’t even “own” the software, and even if we did “own” it, it would be sold AS IS, and again, by accepting the ToS they could not be held liable under any means, even if using the software somehow affected you negatively in any way, so…

oh and about that comment on entropy, well its not that some people “just like entropy” and if we define entropy as the wearing down of the component parts of a CLOSED system because of heat, then everything is in a way moving towards entropy, change is the way the universe moves forward, that change means things will eventually wear down and pass away, nothing is eternal, we all die in the end, so moving on is actually the most efficient way of change, attrition can and has won wars, but its not as efficient as say, nuking or just letting things go.

Payment models have little to do with whether a game is an mmo or not. MMO’s are defined by the words Massively Multiplayer. Think about those words…Massively and Multiplayer. When a developer makes one of these, they are selling you an idea, and a world. The idea is tons of people to play with in an interesting and engaging world. It is a service that they provide you with this world and try to keep people in it, it’s alive in few ways other games can be, regardless if it’s sandbox or theme park. The game world and the way the population perceives and interacts with it change over time. If it doesn’t, the game and the population stagnate and die. Entropy. It’s the developers AND the players job to fight entropy and keep these worlds alive and interesting. In this way it is a service, and not a point of sale product. The developers job doesn’t end just because you bought the game, on the contrary, it’s just beginning.

When NCSoft decided to market this game as a buy to play experience, you didn’t just buy the world that came in the box or the download. You also bought any updates, patches, and people that came along with it. That was their choice in going for the model they chose, and it was and is a very good model. It made many buy the game who may not have otherwise.

Free advice: Don’t go with the ToS argument, it comes off really badly.

People resort to hyperbole and outbursts most often when they feel like they aren’t being listened to. Staying with the steak analogy, if the first customer calmly asked for the steak to be taken back and redone in a calm, polite manner, and then received the steak back and it was still undercooked, that customer would then be more likely to respond in an outburst.

Going with your story analogy, did you open a line of communication with your 5 detractors? Did you discuss the why’s of their critique, and then after the discussion, not changing the entire idea of your story or vision of it, adjust certain things to make it a better work for all of your intended audience? According to your small focus group, you sold a story that slightly appealed to all of them, but greatly appealed to none of them. Communicating and adjusting one’s work to appeal to your audience is a great way to increase overall appeal, while still retaining vision and personal control.

Communication after feedback opens up even more possibilities for improvement and increases customer retention and a feeling of empowerment, which increases your brands overall loyalty. Something that seems to be slipping recently.

TheProphetOmega.3596:

@killcannon – If said restaurant served what you perceive as kitten waste, and you simply don’t like kitten waste to eat, and if said restaurant ONLY served kitten waste, and you tell them that kitten waste is only poo for you and demanded that they change it because you don’t like their menu, after accepting a ToS agreement before entering the restaurant, then I feel that something wrong is going on…

No one is saying that complaining isn’t constructive, its the structure of the words used to complain and the manner in which they are sentenced what is worrying!
now don’t get me wrong everything in this life is an avenue for improvement in equal measure as everything being prone to fail, now I personally dont like abuse or “wasting” my time, and if something is upsetting then I move on.

There are ways of getting points across, and I believe we cannot be on different pages regarding the way some posts aren’t that well constructed in a manner that is coherent and thoughtful regarding perceived improvement for the game we either choose to love or hate!

cheers!

@Vayne – just my thoughts exactly! we share similar views!

Yeah I get it, you don’t like conflict. Like I said, if everyone just “moves on” nothing changes and things move to entropy. Some people just like entropy I guess.

Vayne.8563:

killcannon.2576:

TheProphetOmega.3596:

I would like to add to this discussion that opinions are not facts, no one has the monopoly on truth, second, that things only seem to be one way to some while the complete opposite might appear to others, in every modern gaming forum people take, in my opinion, things way to seriously, as if their lives depended on having certain assets supplied to some, or denied to others.

Relax people its just a game, is it perfect? for some it is for some it isn’t, rationality cannot be put on hold under any circumstance, and no I´m not a fanboy for GW2, i´m a fanboy of rationality, for me the game is just fine as it is, videogames are just pastimes, not the pinnacle of my life on earth.

So please stop flinging poo everywhere, some would like to think we are amongst equal members of the human race, not a kindergarten for mentally challenged amoebas.

I dont get it, if GW2 is so irritating and lacks so many things, then why are some even here? what keeps the disgruntled, well disgruntled doing engaging activities?
Now more than ever we have thousands of games to choose from besides this , for some wreck.

This is a call for sanity, whatever that means to some of you.

Ahh, you were doing so well in your first two paragraphs, telling everyone how they should respect each other and calm down and do some yoga. It was great.

Then you called everyone mentally challenged amoebas, and topped it off by telling everyone they were insane. Great play there chief.

People should complain if they are upset. If you go to a restaurant and get a steak that you ordered well done, and it comes out bloody, you should not only go to a different restaurant, but also let the staff and possibly the proprietor know about it. Why? Because it leads to improvements.

Of course people have the right to complain. That much is self-evident. But there is a difference between ordering a steak and getting something you didn’t order. You’re the ONLY person eating that steak. Calling for changes that affect everyone is quite a different matter. Particularly if you think everyone plays your way and not everyone does (not saying that applies to you, only to some of the people complaining).

Ahhh, but here’s the thing. What happens if that customer never complained about that steak? Or the next customer, or the next one? But they all did decide not to eat there anymore. What changes when the first customer who got an order served incorrectly, complains? Steps are taken to fix the problem, and the next few people who order get steaks made to order, a finer attention to detail is made by the kitchen staff.

Customer feedback is important, one of the big three. Feedback, metrics, and listening (or communication). These three things are the key to improving any service. And an MMO is not a point of sale thing, but a service.

TheProphetOmega.3596:

I would like to add to this discussion that opinions are not facts, no one has the monopoly on truth, second, that things only seem to be one way to some while the complete opposite might appear to others, in every modern gaming forum people take, in my opinion, things way to seriously, as if their lives depended on having certain assets supplied to some, or denied to others.

Relax people its just a game, is it perfect? for some it is for some it isn’t, rationality cannot be put on hold under any circumstance, and no I´m not a fanboy for GW2, i´m a fanboy of rationality, for me the game is just fine as it is, videogames are just pastimes, not the pinnacle of my life on earth.

So please stop flinging poo everywhere, some would like to think we are amongst equal members of the human race, not a kindergarten for mentally challenged amoebas.

I dont get it, if GW2 is so irritating and lacks so many things, then why are some even here? what keeps the disgruntled, well disgruntled doing engaging activities?
Now more than ever we have thousands of games to choose from besides this , for some wreck.

This is a call for sanity, whatever that means to some of you.

Ahh, you were doing so well in your first two paragraphs, telling everyone how they should respect each other and calm down and do some yoga. It was great.

Then you called everyone mentally challenged amoebas, and topped it off by telling everyone they were insane. Great play there chief.

People should complain if they are upset. If you go to a restaurant and get a steak that you ordered well done, and it comes out bloody, you should not only go to a different restaurant, but also let the staff and possibly the proprietor know about it. Why? Because it leads to improvements.

The point was never if he could, or could not get the amount of armored scales from said farming area. The point was that there was/is an agenda being pushed consistently and constantly trying to make farmers feel bad or wrong for doing what they choose to do within the confines and restrictions of the game, that they are “doing it wrong” because certain individuals somehow believe that it affects their own enjoyment of the game. These players feel they have some kind of direct line to the devs, when in fact they do not. No one player or group of players has the right or prerogative to decide for everyone else what is the right or wrong way to play and enjoy the time they spend within the game.

Astraea.6075:

killcannon.2576:

Vayne.8563:

Thanks for this. Jon says it a lot better than I do. See, Guns, I’m not putting words into anyone’s mouths.

Yes he does. He says “Farmers good”. Maybe people can take that to heart. I doubt it though, people will see what they want to see….like politicians trying to push an agenda.

Perhaps it might help if you temper the “farmers good” message with the other statement Jon made in the same post…

JonPeters.5630:

When one activity emerges that’s order of magnitudes more profitable than anything else in the game, it forces everyone to either engage in that activity or get priced out of the economy.

I take his post to mean that while there’s nothing intrinsically wrong with people farming, it should be spread across multiple areas with no one farm spot far more profitable or easier than other farm spots. If you’re relying on densely packed areas with fast respawns or endless waves of mobs to mindlessly farm, then you can probably expect that area to be nerfed if it becomes popular due to the “easy” profits that can be made.

I don’t need to temper my post, Mr. Peters post says the exact same thing. The economy depends upon farmers, he states that if you enjoy doing a normal game activity it’s ok to do it over and over. At no point in his post does he say that you need to move to farm or spread anything across multiple areas. If you are seeing this it’s because you choose to take the post out of context. The game mechanics are tied into making very small areas farmable for periods of time. The only thing he speaks negatively about are exploiters and botters. DR is in place to stop those activities.

Like I stated, people will choose to take the comments out of context to push their agenda.

Vayne.8563:

Geotherma.2395:

JonPeters.5630:

We thought we should put in our 2 cents as well.

Guild Wars 2 is a game about freedom. We want you to be able to explore the world and engage in a huge variety of activities, focusing on whatever best suits your tastes.

Some players have run into “diminishing returns” thresholds we put into the game to provide a safety net against unanticipated economy-breaking issues. We do have these thresholds in place, but it’s not our intention that normal players should ever run into them. We’ve recently had bugs and imbalances that have caused normal players to hit thresholds, and we’ll fix those.

These systems are put in place to protect the economy from botters and exploiters. We will close exploits as quickly as we can. These thresholds help create a safety net to keep the economy safe when we aren’t there to deal with the offender. It’s important to have a safety net in place. It would be bad for everyone if, for example, a group of players learned how to speed-clear a dungeon in 5 minutes, with full rewards each time, and then repeated that continuously. When one activity emerges that’s order of magnitudes more profitable than anything else in the game, it forces everyone to either engage in that activity or get priced out of the economy.

While we need a safety net to stop unanticipated economy-breaking exploits and botting, we have no desire to stop farming. Farmers are a part every online economy and when they are doing normal game activity they do not cause any harm. If a player finds a normal game activity fun and would like to keep doing it, that’s fine with us.

Initially we have to rely on smaller data sets, instinct and some guesswork to find the correct cutoff. What this means is that some players are going to bump into the edges of these systems for a while as we get them sorted out. Please bear with us while we gather more data and lower the safety net until it’s only providing critical economy protection. Looking at the numbers this morning, we believe some of the threshold systems are just too harsh empirically and we’ll be adjusting those systems within the next few weeks to ensure that fewer legitimate players are being impacted.

I hope this helps to explain why a game like this needs systems such as this to protect its economy. I also hope it gives some insight into our philosophy about botters (BAD) and exploiters (BAD) vs. farmers (GOOD). Thanks for your support and we will see you in game.

Jon

Thanks for this. Jon says it a lot better than I do. See, Guns, I’m not putting words into anyone’s mouths.

Yes he does. He says “Farmers good”. Maybe people can take that to heart. I doubt it though, people will see what they want to see….like politicians trying to push an agenda.

Vayne.8563:

I can’t tell you how many times in Guild Wars 1, skills and builds were changed to prevent people from farming too fast. That’s why I say it isn’t just the gem store. Guild Wars 1 had no way to trade gems for cash, the game didn’t profit from nerfing farming, but Anet still had DR and still nerfed farming.

If all you want to do is farm, you’re affecting the game. You may think, well, I should be able to farm anywhere I want for as long as I want. But since that’s not how the game is designed, you’d be wrong.

You can argue with me all you want, but it’s Anet’s game.

And before you use the “play the way you want line” that’s been explained by Anet several times. It doesn’t mean you can do anything you want it game. It means that you’re not limited to one style of play to get to max level. You can level in WvW, skip PvE altogether and just PvP, level through events and buy exotic gear with karma, level through dungeons. That’s what play your own way means.

Every game has parameters. I’m not sure why people can’t accept this.

Putting words in the dev’s mouths again eh? Anet has never once stated that they do not want people to farm. Never. Not once. Nada. Zero. They have in fact put mechanics in game to assist farming.

Amadan.9451:

well, i tryed my best with what i had at the mount maelstrom personal story

SPOILER ALERT

(you have to stop krait carrying the infamous orb that you ill use later in fort trinity)

on that mission is impossible to pull few krait at a time, they just come all, poison the hell out of you, block you etc etc.

i tryed, d/d, staff, condition removing, teleporting, i kyted all the area aggroing in the process more mobs, than you finally make it to the champion krait kitten that have 2 adds and a lot of aoe, and you just die there.

i’m not saying eles are not viable pve classes, i’m saying i’m not a viable elementalist and so are a lots of player around here stuck with ele and their mechanics.
it is the most stupidly difficoult class to master and use, the only fun besides crafting i can have from ele is protected by a zerg in wvw be just a weapon of mass destruction, until someone notice me and kill me just pressing tab

My comment was just a general answer to the topic, not to you in particular. Sorry if it sounded like it was.

The personal story has always been bad at presenting a balanced challenge. It seems the devs just decided to stick groups of mobs into the instance and have them all bum rush the player at once in many cases. There was talk of addressing that in the past, but seems to have been neglected.

The ele is a hard class to master and play for anyone. In order to get the same kind of viability that other classes have, an ele player has to work twice or three times as hard. But there is a payoff eventually. Once you master the class you can do things other classes only wish they could do, one of the reasons why ele’s get so much hate from other classes sometimes.

I chose ele as my first class when I began playing, and I came from a game where mages were totally different than here. I was taken aback by the difficulty of the class mechanics and exactly how much actually went in to playing one. But nine months later, I’m glad I started with that class. It threw me into the game mechanics head first and I found it was a sink or swim kind of proposition.

Elementalists are about movement and attunement dancing. Are you trying to face tank mobs? Are you trying to kill things without switching attunements? Firstly, check out the elementalist forum subsection to look for some leveling/pve builds. Secondly, don’t have all gear from the pvt branch. Try some precision and critical damage equipment.

If you play d/d, the ele is all about movement into and out of range of mobs attacks, while switching attunements to keep up various buffs and heals. If you are playing staff, you most always want to start attacks at max range, use the cc available, and work with the combo fields that you can put down. Elementalists are a very viable class in pve, but they are not able to just stand still and trade blows.

Vayne.8563:

killcannon.2576:

Vayne.8563:

killcannon.2576:

Vayne.8563:

laokoko.7403:

Vayne.8563:

Now, this COULD be an abberation because I don’t do it that often, but for my money, I’ve personally made more money farming the armored scales.

Some people say they can make 9g/h with skelk on another post.

I didn’t know you can make that much on armor scales. So how many scale you get an hour? like 30?

I don’t know. I got 10 in about 15 minutes…but it might just be an aberration.

I got 50 in under 10 minutes!!! You people crack me up. There’s no way to know what he got. He could say anything he wanted in order to back up his posts, why bother even asking him.

Are you accusing me of lying? Because if you are, I’m done with you. I have no reason to lie. If you think it’s impossible to get 10 armored scale in 15 minutes using the buff by killing sharks I ASSURE you it’s not. I’m not even farming that hard. I’m sure you can get MORE.

I don’t know you, though I do know you have an agenda here on the forums. You can assure everyone anything you wish and it doesn’t make it true, false, blue, pink, 4, or 33. It’s possible to get 10 precursors back to back from killing 10 mobs, just because I say I did get 10 precursors doesn’t make it true.

If you want to make statements, you need to prove they are true. As many people state, just because you see a poster say one thing, doesn’t make it true.

I’ve made many statements people have doubted in the past and when push came to shove, I’ve gone out and found evidence. It’s getting tiresome.

Most recently someone said Prophecies had more content at launch than Guild Wars 2, so I looked it up and showed how Prophecies had a single starter zone, 203 quests, and 25 missions. No one could possibly construe it to have more content. Since I posted that fact not a single reply in the thread.

I’ll wait for someone who enjoys farming to go find the spot, do the math, because I don’t enjoy farming enough to keep it up, but yes, it’s entirely possible to get 10 armored scale in 15 minutes. I’m not even sure why what’s a discussion.

Here’s an idea if people are getting tired….they should quit making declarative statements meant to push their agenda on every single player. Would probably save on eyestrain for everyone.

Vayne.8563:

killcannon.2576:

Vayne.8563:

laokoko.7403:

Vayne.8563:

Now, this COULD be an abberation because I don’t do it that often, but for my money, I’ve personally made more money farming the armored scales.

Some people say they can make 9g/h with skelk on another post.

I didn’t know you can make that much on armor scales. So how many scale you get an hour? like 30?

I don’t know. I got 10 in about 15 minutes…but it might just be an aberration.

I got 50 in under 10 minutes!!! You people crack me up. There’s no way to know what he got. He could say anything he wanted in order to back up his posts, why bother even asking him.

Are you accusing me of lying? Because if you are, I’m done with you. I have no reason to lie. If you think it’s impossible to get 10 armored scale in 15 minutes using the buff by killing sharks I ASSURE you it’s not. I’m not even farming that hard. I’m sure you can get MORE.

I don’t know you, though I do know you have an agenda here on the forums. You can assure everyone anything you wish and it doesn’t make it true, false, blue, pink, 4, or 33. It’s possible to get 10 precursors back to back from killing 10 mobs, just because I say I did get 10 precursors doesn’t make it true.

If you want to make statements, you need to prove they are true. As many people state, just because you see a poster say one thing, doesn’t make it true.

Vayne.8563:

laokoko.7403:

Vayne.8563:

Now, this COULD be an abberation because I don’t do it that often, but for my money, I’ve personally made more money farming the armored scales.

Some people say they can make 9g/h with skelk on another post.

I didn’t know you can make that much on armor scales. So how many scale you get an hour? like 30?

I don’t know. I got 10 in about 15 minutes…but it might just be an aberration.

I got 50 in under 10 minutes!!! You people crack me up. There’s no way to know what he got. He could say anything he wanted in order to back up his posts, why bother even asking him.

Guns and Giblets.9308:

killcannon.2576:

What that post talks about is making certain classes/builds dependent upon other classes/builds in order to be effective. It’s the trinity, except it just isn’t being called the trinity. You can dress that pig up however you want, it’s still a pig.

Isn’t the trinity typically composed of tank-healer-dps? Ensign’s suggestion explicitly rejects the tank/healing paradigm as an insipid bore. Cleanse/condition and buff/debuff seems rather different from the trinity.

The idea behind the trinity is making certain classes/builds work dynamically and dependently on one another. In other words, you can’t do/makes it harder to do X content without X class /builds. You can replace the names Tank and Healer with buff/debuff and cleanse/condition, but it still makes classes dependent on each other to do content, the same as in a trinity system.

It’s the same idea, just with a different name.

Polle.6908:

killcannon.2576:

CobaltSixty.1542:

ADHD generation strikes again.

A person has adhd because they want compelling gameplay? Classy.

What a person finds compelling in gameplay is purely subjective.

Indeed it is, but I didn’t know that subjective was a synonym for ADHD.

Guns and Giblets.9308:

killcannon.2576:

They couldn’t implement the kind of raiding people want anyway, without solidifying agro mechanics and establishing a trinity. The mechanics just aren’t in place for it, unless they use gimmicks.

CoRtex.2157:

Raiding won’t work in this game! It will just be a boring zerg fest, Just spamming the same skills for 20min on 1 boss. There is no skill in this game, there is no healing or tanking, just dps’ing.

You can have meaningful raids without a trinity. You need to overhaul the combat mechanics in PvE, however. Base it around buff/debuff and cleanse/condition cycles, a mechanic that could make for highly interesting and, when appropriate, complex content that eschews the trinity while satisfying players’ need for challenging content. For example:

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/Tanks-being-tankier-dedicated-healing-class/page/4#post1830399

What that post talks about is making certain classes/builds dependent upon other classes/builds in order to be effective. It’s the trinity, except it just isn’t being called the trinity. You can dress that pig up however you want, it’s still a pig.

Edit: As far as I’m concerned, they can add the trinity (or whatever half baked idea people don’t want to call the trinity), they can add raids, and gear progression as well(cosmetic or otherwise). Just saying you can’t do it without significant changes to the game mechanics.