Guild Wars 2

Astral Projections.7320:

There are people posting on these forums who think that being able to buy pretty weapons or armor from the gem store means that Guild Wars 2 is pay to win. (Apparently styling is the new PvP battle ground). You’ll never be able to convince these people that getting extra sprockets isn’t p2w.

I think people spend too much time arguing about definition.

Obviously those people who real life money can skip a lot of grind to gain “things” faster.

For example “hey! there is some cool thing in gem store” I’ll just spend 10$ on it. Or you can spend 10 hours farming in game for it.

kitten those rich people =). I hope I’m rich so I can toss money around the gem store =(

The pick is only good if you focus on mining rich node. In specific rich iron and platinum node.

Else the benefit is marginal. For people who focus on orr harvesting, the pick isn’t that great.

ya honestly… very unlikely. There are probably much more people making more bad comment than you, I don’t think Anet is bored enough to tag everyone.

That being said, I have that feeling myself sometimes, not just in this games, but in other games also.

To be safe, watch what you said… =)

Vayne.8563:

Actually I don’t worry about people making the game look bad. I do what I can to help people understand why decisions being made may not be as silly as they think they are, because I’m an educator at heart. It’s what I’ve always done.

I find it hard to believe that you are not troubled by people making the game look bad.

When someone make a negative comment or questioned the developer’s design decision, you seemed very passionate to fight back.

Vayne.8563:

laokoko.7403:

I just browsed over quickly.

I dont’ know where you are getting at, our job is not to come on the forum to praise how good the game is.

When people are happy, they don’t come on the forum, they just happily playing.

Usually when people dislike something, it is when they come on the forum and say something.

Your job isn’t to make games either. Anet’s is.

So you come to the forum, unhappy, and you say stuff like (and people have said it) why not buff everything else. The reason why is because nothing else could ever get done.

I’m not saying to praise everything. I’m saying not to take individual parts of a system and use that to judge the entire system, because your judgement will be skewed. It won’t make your playing experience better and many things people have asked for aren’t practical. They don’t think about how this system will affect the market or how that system will affect new players. They care about only their own desire to have the game they want. All well and good…except for one thing.

If any of us ever really got the game we want, there might be only a handful of people to play it with.

Games aren’t about individual details they’re about entire systems. Details can be altered, but entire systems are arguably more important. It’s like the people who say this MMO is like every other MMO because most things in it are found somewhere in some game. But the combination of these things all in the same game was Anet’s vision. If you can’t see the forest you can’t know the health of the forest, no matter how bad the tree you’re looking at is.

honestly read your own comment. You are really troubled that people are making the game look bad.

So unless you are associate with Anet, you shouldn’t worry too much you are making them look bad.

Or if you are a “really reallly” passionate fan, I think you are getting a bit too passionate.

I just browsed over quickly.

I dont’ know where you are getting at, our job is not to come on the forum to praise how good the game is.

When people are happy, they don’t come on the forum, they just happily playing.

Usually when people dislike something, it is when they come on the forum and say something.

i’ll killed a few seperatists, don’t think they count towards the renown heart. I killed the events ones, maybe there are other seperatists.

and i just don’t happen to find dead soldiers, maybe I’m playing at peak time too many people.

and it is more confusing because the renown description says dismantle mines… and you can’t.

I’m not sure if it is part of the new player experience.

Basically you have to pick up this land mines, kill separatist, or collect scrap metal.

But picking up land mines and kill separatist no longer count toward the land mine. And there are not enough scrap metal to complete the renown heart in 1 go.

I finished map completion on 16 characters, and is working for my another batch of 8 profession.

I was wondering if anyone actually bother to do map completion on multiple alts. I heard a couple people with map completion on around 20 characters. But never heard anyone with more.

I think the OP’s suggestion is great. Please Anet do that for the expansion. Add in new abilities that is required to unlock.

But stop tweaking or taking out abilities people already have now. The game is out for 2 years already. China have already experienced with the game. Stop nerfing people so they can felt rewarded later on.

The problem is not with OP’s suggestion. The problem is with nerf. And no one like nerf. If you added new traits and put it behind unlocks, people wont’ complain about it as much.

You take away abilities that is previously easy to obtain and put it behind unlock is what make people complaining.

Sunreva.8714:

laokoko.7403:

My problem isn’t with the gold, or grind. My problem is you would be like 100 hours in to the game before you can fully control your characters by getting the abilities unlocked.

So it took 100 hours before you can play the way you want?

It is one thing to lock gear behind grind, but I think locking “abilities” behind grind is too much. Abilities is the basic of how you control your characters.

Ya but traits are basic character abilities as well. And to be fair, the skillpoint/mini-quest grind that is already required to unlock ALL the traits on a new character, is more than than what this thread pertains to.

I mean, it already takes 360 skill points to unlock all the traits (unless you want to complete dungeons on story mode and do a bunch of quests), you can’t honestly believe that adding another 45 onto that figure would be game breaking?

In my opinion, 360 is actually too little. It should probable doubled.

I honestly dont’ care about the trait thing, because I got it all unlocked by creating a character before the traits patch. I think most people cared already did it. Maybe that’s why there isn’t that many complaint about the traits patch.

So you are saying Anet should start taking out abilities people already unlocked so they felt rewarding for doing tasks?

Sunreva.8714:

MangoMonkey.7582:

I can tell you that would make players actually have to complete the map which now is a choice.

Yes, you’re right. A choice needs to be offered, similar to the trait unlocks. Either you complete a dungeon on story mode OR you purchase from a vendor. So it’ll look like this:

Mesmers – Make it so that at level 80 you only have 1 of the 3 illusion slots unlocked. For the other two, make it so that they have to grind out 250 dungeon tokens for each one. OR… each illusion slot can be purchased at a vendor for 10 gold + 15 skill points.

Warriors – Make it so that adrenaline bar segments/burst skills are earned through completion of the personal story. OR… each adrenaline bar segment can be purchased at a vendor for 10 gold + 15 skill points.

Rangers – Make it so that before they can charm a pet on a particular map, they have to have that map 100% completed. OR… pet packages (containing multiple animals, but not all) from a vendor for 10 gold + 15 skill points.

Elementalists – make is to that they need to buy “Attunement Crystals” for 10 laurels each at the vendor. At character creation, they start off with 1 randomized attunement. Then, to unlock the other 3, they need to visit the laurel vendor to buy the “Fire Crystal”, “Water Crystal”, etc. OR… attunements can be purchased from a vendor for 10 gold + 15 skill points.

etc, etc, etc.

Now players have a choice, so those who don’t want to grind are satisfied. It costs 360 skill points to unlock all the traits on any given character, oh and 43 gold. With the additional character grinds mentioned above, this would add only a marginal increase in gold + skill point costs. But hey, players have a choice!

My problem isn’t with the gold, or grind. My problem is you would be like 100 hours in to the game before you can fully control your characters by getting the abilities unlocked.

So it took 100 hours before you can play the way you want?

It is one thing to lock gear behind grind, but I think locking “abilities” behind grind is too much. Abilities is the basic of how you control your characters.

Sunreva.8714:

laokoko.7403:

and dude, dont’ tell me I have to finish the map before I can have fun. I finished the same maps 24 times already.

Ya but this is irrelevant. After all, completing dungeons on story mode with character X does not unlock a Grandmaster Trait ( that requires it to be completed) on new character Y. If you made 3 new characters and wanted to unlock the grandmaster trait on each character that requires completing Arah Story Mode, you already have to complete that Arah Story Mode three times (ones for each character).

If you finished Arah Story 24 times already, it doesn’t matter. If you make a 25th character, you already have to finish Arah Story Mode a 25th time (or plunk down the gold/skill points for that particular trait at the vendor). So this logically should be applied to all other means of locked-character progression post level 80.

The developer implies they are considering making a change to that. I’ll quote it

Finally, I want to add that a few things (hello traits!) are things that can be improved for players who make multiple alts, we’re aware of this, and though company policy prevents us from discussing what’s in development: I can say we know Gw2 can be an even better game for people who love making alts in the long run, more info: when it’s ready™.

Sunreva.8714:

laokoko.7403:

I dont’ even play after I reach lvl80(map completion). And now you are locking every abilities that I can use to have fun before level80.

I can honestly say, I have much less fun doing my map completion because most of my skills/traits is locked.

That’s precisely my point. Clearly the intent as it is now is to make it so that reaching level 80 is not sufficient to get 100% of out your character (in terms of having all traits/utilities unlocked upon reaching level 80).

So the question is, why stop there? Why not lock other aspects of class development health/stamina bars, adrenaline for warriors, attunements for eles, illusion slots for mesmers, etc? All of these should be reexamined and locked in some way, shape, or form. No seriously, seriously now, imagine having to first receive 100% zone completion as a ranger before you can charm a particular animal on that map. Wouldn’t that be just awesome?

Think of how much more you’ll appreciate your character after all your hard work and everything is unlocked. Lets do this!

consider I’m on my 24th lvl80. I reject. At least they should make the system easier for people with multiple alt.

I dont’ mind the system. But it should be account based, not character based.

The reason people have so much problem with this patch(80% of people dont’ like the change to new player experience) is because we are not new players.

and I’m sorry if you didn’t notice, GW2 is one of those games many players make a bunch of alt. I even see people make fun of it on youtube saying when people reach max level, what you do is making new alt.

and dude, dont’ tell me I have to finish the map before I can have fun. I finished the same maps 24 times already.

Sunreva.8714:

Gimli.9461:

Sunreva.8714:

Mesmers – Make it so that at level 80 you only have 1 of the 3 illusion slots unlocked. For the other two, make it so that they have to grind out dungeons or commit X amount of hours into playing the character.

RIP Mesmer
It takes nightmarish time and effort to kill anything on mesmer as is.

But wouldn’t that be so awesome? Make it so that mesmers need to complete dungeons on explorer mode and collect dungeon tokens to unlock their illusion slots. You know, nothing too bad, like 250 tokens to unlock each one. Sweet!

Elementalists – make is to that they need to buy “Attunement Crystals” for 10 laurels each at the vendor. At character creation, they start off with 1 randomized attunement. Then, to unlock the other 3, they need to visit the laurel vendor to buy the “Fire Crystal”, “Water Crystal”, etc. Awesome!

These unique character progression grinds would nicely compliment the skill point / trait grind that is already required post level 80.

I understand your point. That is probably why Anet did the change to NPE.

But look at it another way. People can’t play the game to it’s full capacities because every skills is locked.

I dont’ even play after I reach lvl80(map completion). And now you are locking every abilities that I can use to have fun before level80.

I can honestly say, I have much less fun doing my map completion because most of my skills/traits is locked.

I’m not saying what you said is wrong, what I’m saying is if Anet want to change it they should do it 2 years ago

Why don’t they just add new things, instead of nerfing people so they feel rewarding.

No one complained that you have to do additional quest to get your new 13th trait unlock.

Now when everyone got accustomed to the old system, and you nerf them so you get rewarded, the results is the exploded complaint on the NPE.

Not sure what this thing is. Is it added in the september patch?

For you guys who have it, do you find it useful? it says you can convert karma to something useful everyday.

Vayne.8563:

There are ways to constructively criticize. There are ways to start a panic. They’re not the same thing.

There are many people who post “GW2 glorified post”. There is nothing constructive about it too. They are just expressing how they felt. I don’t see you run around and saying those post isn’t constructive.

Maybe when people posting those angry post, that are just genuinely how they felt. I don’t know why every post have to be constructive.

Stiofan.6720:

Vayne I don’t think we hate you, We just find it annoying that you always argue with us for every criticism of gw2 we have, We don’t know if you are trying to troll us or if you genuinely believe that gw2 is perfect with absolutely no faults. The criticism isn’t us having a cheap shot at arenanet, We are just really trying to get them to improve the game.

well, Vayne hated the trait system too. That is one of the very few things I see he hated about the game.

Anet should really consider reverting the trait changes, consider even Vayne hated it.

Vayne.8563:

It’s so cool. Before the official forums got involved it was very balanced. Then suddenly out of nowhere, it got downvoted by a bunch of people and the numbers stacked up with hate it.

So you are saying, right now the number is skewed?

I remember before you are making a big deal out of it, because vast majority of people voted “the new changes is ok if they make some adjustment”.

Is the mob you fighting level 10? I don’t think all mob attack is unlock till level 10…

I can’t remember the exact number, the vote start with “it would be ok with some change” in overwhelming lead, and somehow it end up with people hating the NPE.

There was like 200 votes yesterday, and I think something like 60%(correct me if my memory fail) would be ok if they did some change. Very few people actually say they hated the patch(like around 15%)

That was from my memory though, my memory could be wrong.

Someone made a poll a few days ago.

Anyway, dont’ mean Anet actually follows polls. They most likely use their own metrics to determine what content to ad.

ya anyway, I know the author of extra credit is a game designer, but I’m not sure why he get so much credit.

Besides you have a bunch of people linking his video and says GW2 is terrible because they dont’ follow extra credit, and you have a bunch of people linking his video and says GW2 is great because they follow his video…

All I can say is the eyes sees what they want to see…

I just came back from a long break. Trying to get map completion on a few characters. The same thing I always do.

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

Ashen.2907:

Up to 81% of respondents not happy/ok with the patch. The margin for the negative score seems to be growing over time with additional responses.

Honestly, I would answer the poll positively but I don’t see the point. Everyone is going to see what they want to see. If it shows positive, it’s because Vayne constructed the poll wrong. If it’s negative in any fashion, then it shows the majority of all players hate the changes and want them banished to the seventh layer of the Abyss to have spiders eat their eyes for all eternity.

I don’t put my vote in because I don’t think it matters anymore – nobody would believe I really meant it, anyway, same as it’s going around (yet again) about Vayne being a plant.

right, but even if we use Vayne’s reasoning, we know that 81% want something change, and only 9% like it.

So if that few people like it right now. And 81% want some minor or major change to it, maybe Anet could consider it.

Vayne.8563:

No, I’m saying the entire change was made for a specific purpose. Anet has outlined that purpose for us. They told us why. They told us the way it was wasn’t working period. End of story. There’s no room to argue there.

Anet tested what would work better and came up with this. If 25% of the player base hates it and leaves, but more people take up the game on free weekends, it’ll probably be a decent deal over time for Anet. They’re a business. They don’t make changes to the game only because players like them. They make changes to the game to grow the game financially as well.

So you don’t get to pick and choose in this case. If you don’t like it, and Anet won’t modify it to your liking because they have other concerns than just what you like, you can choose to leave or you can choose to stay.

You can’t dictate terms based on just your likes and dislikes. It doesn’t work that way.

Yes I have read what Anet wrote. My take is they “think” more new players will retain if they did it that way.

but does the new system work better for veterans? Especially those that already is accustomed for the old system?

quite honestly I dont’ know the answer. I think most people hate grind for legendary, but that is what many people end up doing.

veterans says they hate the unlocks, but will more of them actually want to level up alt? Maybe they’ll felt more rewarding so they’ll end up grind to 80? Apparently ANet think it works for new players. That is my question.

besides, anet already says they are going to make changes to traits for veterans with multiple alts. I’m not sure what Anet will do.

Vayne.8563:

Because it’s a package. Anet believes, and no one can prove otherwise at this time, that doing it like this will keep new players in the game longer. You can argue they’re wrong if you want, but they have tested it and we haven’t.

So to ask the question, would mean that you’re defeating part of the update. They didn’t do this update just to give you better rewards. They did it to keep new players playing longer, which they say this can do.

Taking out those changes would undo the update….or at least would put the reason for the update at risk.

No one is going to say I prefer being more limited and I’m pretty sure most people won’t say no to better leveling rewards. Not much of a poll.

The update is a package, you can’t pick and choose what you want from a package, because Anet has reasons for the changes they’ve made. The question has to be about the overall experience.

I dont’ understand the reasoning.

If people hate something from the game and like something from the game… dont’ it make sense to keep the things people like, and change the things people don’t?

So you’re saying Anet should add things people hate just because they added things people like?

If all Anet want to do is keep new players from being happy, they should consider trying to make veterans happy too…

I dont’ mind what Anet did for new players, but they should consider making some changes so people with multiple alts, wont’ be put behind such heavy unlock.

I won’t say Anet is wrong. They seemed to like putting a bunch of unlocks so people “felt” like they get rewarded so they’ll keep playing. (especially for new people).

But it is really really really annoying. Most people playing alt will get so annoyed by it so some might not play because of it.

Vayne.8563:

Wolfheart.1938:

Vayne.8563:

Wolfheart.1938:

You have yet to tell me why the examples I gave aren’t better polls. Not that I know much about them, so if anyone wants to teach me something he’s welcome.

I didn’t say it isn’t a better poll. (snip)

Then it is? Cool, we are making strides.

I don’t remember your specific suggestions, because it’s not my focus. However, yes, the poll needs to be reworded.

The next poll will probably be like

I like the new system.
I don’t like the new system.
I neither dislike or like the new system.

Something like that.

why dont’ you just ask who like getting their skills/personal level/utility/traits level locked while leveling.

That is obvious because almost everyone don’t like it.

If you make another post about lvling faster and getting rewards, almost everyone like it.

The poll is weird since last night, the poll start with most people just want slight change.

I dont’ know how the people hate it start piling up later.

the only change they made is put unlocks behind level. That is a slight change, of course slight change it back everyone will like it.

Of course people like the faster level and rewards per level.

Vayne.8563:

laokoko.7403:

Vayne.8563:

laokoko.7403:

I take it that people want things changed because they actually dont’ like it. So that means very few actually like the change, and some just don’t care.

If you don’t like it why wouldn’t you just choose the option I don’t like it. The option is there. Presumably those who don’t feel they can choose that, choose it because they don’t dislike it.

Anyway there’ll be another poll when the changes show up, so it’s all moot anyway.

I’m talking in particular the unlocks.

the change is slight anyway, so change it back slightly of course will make people happy.

of course people like the faster 1-15 level, and getting rewards per level.

It’s my experience that most people don’t hate the unlocks either. They don’t love them, but they can live with them. The rest of the changes compensate for the unlocks, that’s how I read it.

that is a weird thing to say. They dont’ love them, but can live with them. You should just say they dislike it but don’t bother them that much.

You play with wording too much.

The patch won’t hurt new players that much, since they boost 1-15 level anyway. But anyone using a lvl20 scroll got hit it, since they’ll have much more level without utilities.

Vayne.8563:

laokoko.7403:

I take it that people want things changed because they actually dont’ like it. So that means very few actually like the change, and some just don’t care.

If you don’t like it why wouldn’t you just choose the option I don’t like it. The option is there. Presumably those who don’t feel they can choose that, choose it because they don’t dislike it.

Anyway there’ll be another poll when the changes show up, so it’s all moot anyway.

I’m talking in particular the unlocks.

the change is slight anyway, so change it back slightly of course will make people happy.

of course people like the faster 1-15 level, and getting rewards per level.

I take it that people want things changed because they actually dont’ like it. So that means very few actually like the change(in particular the unlock), and some just don’t care.

I’m sure many people do like the faster 1-15 level, and more rewards per level.

VergilDeZaniah.3295:

IMHO, revamping the whole leveling system was a good idea but poorly done.

If ANet fears new players have difficulty understanding the game, why not simply turn the first mission into a 1-man tutorial instance? Like

I don’t think that is the entire reason.

I think Anet just push trait, or skills to unlock later so it “seemed” more rewarding to level up.

I kind of use the lvl20 scroll so lvling faster 1-15 is irrelevant to me anyway. Your a veteran too right? So dont’ you have enough lvl20 scroll yourself?

If you dislike the trait change yourself, why do you like having utility skills locked behind levels, Vayne?

Zoso.8279:

When people say they hate it to me at least it feels like they want the old system back but I like the new rate of leveling in the current system the new reward system the way PS is tied in better with the leveling process. The wording in the poll is fine with me. The only thing I don’t like is the skill locks but that is just one portion of the overall leveling experience.

Maybe the OP should reword his poll, how many people like things things getting level locked.

The OP was the one that dont’ like the trait lock, now he likes utility getting locked? I’m confused.

Sunshine.4680:

Vayne.8563:

Sunshine.4680:

LastShot.4762:

The vote is kinda bias imho, should just be “Do you like this new changes? Yes/No/Not apply”. Breaking down the not-like into so many categories while like in just one is an attempt to divert the Nah votes.

Btw. I voted “not apply” option, since the trait update already kill my desire to make new alts, this update really just reinforce it.

Yes the vote is pretty well worded to divert people from the dislike vote. Pretty sneaky.

Nothing sneaky about it. It’s simply that so many people seem to HATE this change and others might not feel as strongly.

The truth is if peoiple are voting it would be okay with some changes, they’re probably closer to liking it than not, because I gave them that option.

I could have put I like it but it would be better. I didn’t, to make it fairer.

The bottom line is it’s not as dire as some are painting it, period.

Than word it,

Like
Dislike
N/A
Not sure yet

the way it’s worded now is so vague. I could put do you think congress is ran well? yes/no/it could with changes, well duh dislike and changes are nearly the samething. That’s why people dislike it.

well, here is the 2 vote option. I think people generally dislike it, but dont’ make it too much a deal with it.

http://strawpoll.me/2537863/

And quite honestly, there are mainly only 2 complaint about it. Utility getting lock, and personal story getting lock. The other are more minor complaint about other things getting lock.

So any slight adjustment people’ll be happy.

Quite honestly if they just unlock utility earlier, most people might even like it.

We’ll level faster 1-15. And we get to unlock utility at the same time.

the last vote with only 2 option have 83% people like it and 17% don’t. I think most people fit the I don’t like it, but it don’t bother me too much, so if they make slight adjustment…

I’m only bothered because the utility is pushed back… The trait thing bothered me already before.

There are 5 different starting area, I’m not sure what’s so wrong about doing them. That being said, many new players don’t even know they exist, or know how to get there.

Almost all the mmorpg do that.

They make the first few level faster…

probably something to do with human psychology.

As a veteran who use lvl20 scroll to bypass early level. This patch is more annoying than helpful. Since the first 20 level I skip anyway. And I won’t have my utility until later.

They keep saying it is for the new players. But the thing is the game is actually harder with a bunch of skills or traits locked. (not that the game is actually hard…)

google have the answer for almost anything. Supposely derived from cartoon

Toon is a term popularized by the 1988 film Who Framed Roger Rabbit; it commonly refers to distinguish characters appearing in cartoons from regular humans. Related to this usage are:

Vayne.8563:

laokoko.7403:

I honestly doubt there are “that many” that likes the change.

I know a bunch of people isn’t bothered by the patch, or say it isn’t so bad, but there are “almost” no one liking it.

Obviously there are a few people that say they like it, but it is very rare. I’d like to see the poll on reddit though, can’t find it.

Moved a lot since the beginning, but here’s the link:

http://strawpoll.me/2537863/r

Right, they should have a poll about people that don’t care. Because many people dont’ care about it, or bother them much.

I’m not sure what’s the reason of people that like it.

I honestly doubt there are “that many” that likes the change.

I know a bunch of people isn’t bothered by the patch, or say it isn’t so bad, but there are “almost” no one liking it.

Obviously there are a few people that say they like it, but it is very rare. I’d like to see the poll on reddit though, can’t find it.

Proposal Overview:
The ability to create nation (a group of guilds).

Goal of Proposal:
Many people enjoy to be in small guilds, since they enjoy reserve the control of the guilds, but at the same time, small guilds were limited to what they accomplish. (for example, guild mission, and maybe in the future GvsG).

Proposal Functionality:
Allow guilds to form a nation. The nation have a population cap of 500(same as guilds). It will also serve as a simple way to merge guilds.

Associated Risks:
It might fracture the current guilds system, since more people would prefer to have their own guilds. There might be more people leaving large guilds to form small guilds since they can use the nation system.

TheAgedGnome.7520:

laokoko.7403:

If anyone didn’t know, a huge percentage of GW2 players never made to level80, they barely played a few hours.
-snip-

How do you know this? Link?

That is just a guess judging from the AP leader board, and results from other MMO’s that a huge percentage of new players/trial players dont’ make it far into the games.

If anyone didn’t know, a huge percentage of GW2 players never made to level80, they barely played a few hours.

The problem is not typical to just GW2, but many MMO’s face the same problem. It seemed the first few hours is what decided for new players if they want to continue playing the game.

Anet said they did extensive testing about the new system. I presume they found that with the new system, they are more able to retain players.

What if Anet actually did the right thing? Maybe with the new system, they were able to increase their retention rate by 10-15%? So maybe pushing back skills/utilities actually helps new players to continue playing because they aren’t overwhelmed by so many information. And it makes leveling more rewarding so they actually continue playing instead of quitting.

I personally hate the change. I think if they want to make the changes, they should consider giving veterans the option to be not included in to.

That being said, I think Anet also need to consider the number of vets that will actually quit or not level new characters because they made the change.

actually, not having all your utilities and traits actually make it harder…

someone was complaining not having traits is too difficult for her lvl30 elementist, I wonder what she felt when her utilities and elite are removed too.