Show me we’re I’m talking for everyone? Can’t? Didn’t think so. That’s because I don’t.
I don’t say all we really want is end game, because some of us don’t really want end game, not in the traditional sense.
I usually say me and players like me, or I believe more players like X and not Y. I don’t say players want this…because that’s talking for everyone.
If you use that language, even if you’re completely reasonable in what you’re asking for, you’re going to meet resistance and your message will be diminished.
If you want the OP’s message to reach less people and be less focused, feel free to continue this conversation. My comments are helping him (whether he knows it or not) more than yours are.
You might not talk for everyone but you did say many times before, that we’re the minority.
And I didn’t talk for everyone either. I talked only for those who feel the same which I wrote in the first message. It was your interpretation of the message that started the whole argument in the first place.
I wouldn’t exactly call you the minority.
But look at it this way, judging from multiple source, GW2 is actually doing moderately well.
Why should Anet bother with what you want, when the company is doing ok ignoring what you want. As long as Anet are making good money, they probably will just continue ignoring you.
No it’s not worth it. Just spam click on the essences of luck so they go away.
People that buy things just to raise their magic find are hopeless dreamers ^^
Except most people don’t spend any gold, infact some even make gold when raising their magic find.
All you need to do is place cheap buy order on cheap blues and greens, and you can raise your magic find barely spending any gold, even profit from it.
No. You just don’t agree with them and are trying to shrug them off as nothing as you cannot argue against them.
No, I meant what I said and said what I meant, if you want your points to back your position then you’ll need to do better.
So arguments about what the affects that could happen if precursors were made easier and/or cheaper to get are automatically invalid because they disagree with what you believe? That’s essentially what you’re saying while making very little effort to actually back up your claims.
legendary was much cheaper 1 year ago. That don’t mean the economy was completely broken 1 year ago.
I dont’ think people are saying making precursor much easier, making it slightly easier wont’ broke the economy.
Demand wasn’t the same before. Notice the big spike in April?
Right, if demand isn’t the same before, how will raising the supply a bit broke the economy.
Slightly increasing mystic forge rate, or tier 6 materials.
They increased the supply of crystaline dust or lodestone through different methods before, they didn’t broke the economy did it?
It all depends on how much. However, what people are calling for is quite a bit.
I think you are just coming up with righteous reason calling what Anet doing is right. Which Anet really don’t do anything because they want to push people to buy gems.
Yes, but to what extent really seems to depend on where you’re playing.
In my experience with 200%+ MF, if you’re doing sub 80 content (including most of the dungeons) it’s not especially noticeable. If you’re in lvl 80 zones though it becomes more frequently noticeable with rares dropping (at this point I still pretty much only get exotics from champ bags which aren’t affected by MF so don’t expect to see them dropping like candy)
Having said that with the amount of luck required to get to the 200% to 300% range (if not doing it by boosters/banners/food/etc) unless you’re doing it at a profit (ie salvaging things who’s mats are more valuable) you’re probably better off just saving gold unless you’re thinking very very long term and plan to be playing for the next 5 to 10 years because the increase in better drops vs the cost requirement is going to take an extremely long time to pay itself off.
What would you say its a more decent level to get to MF before the Luck required becomes stupidly insane , ive heard above 200% something you require like 30k luck for 1% O.O!
you think there is a point in the MF account based luck need that is enough to buy from tp and salvage or the ones dropped from mobs stop salvage it and sell em…or is it worth it all the way to 300% o.o?
pd: currently at 102 % ;D without buffs
I leveled it all the way to 280. It is quite easy to just buy cheap greens and blues to level it. you just need to spend a good hour or 2 everyday buying and salvaging everyday, and in a couple of month you’ll be 280.
There is also the ecto way, much faster but it’ll cost you a fortune.
No. You just don’t agree with them and are trying to shrug them off as nothing as you cannot argue against them.
No, I meant what I said and said what I meant, if you want your points to back your position then you’ll need to do better.
So arguments about what the affects that could happen if precursors were made easier and/or cheaper to get are automatically invalid because they disagree with what you believe? That’s essentially what you’re saying while making very little effort to actually back up your claims.
legendary was much cheaper 1 year ago. That don’t mean the economy was completely broken 1 year ago.
I dont’ think people are saying making precursor much easier, making it slightly easier wont’ broke the economy.
Demand wasn’t the same before. Notice the big spike in April?
Right, if demand isn’t the same before, how will raising the supply a bit broke the economy.
Slightly increasing mystic forge rate, or tier 6 materials.
They increased the supply of crystaline dust or lodestone through different methods before, they didn’t broke the economy did it?
Putting aside the anecdotal confirmation bias that the Magic Find question usually draws out of people: yes, it helps. You could have just googled it and found a bunch of threads here and other places that demonstrate the difference in MF %.
I think the obvious is you do get more yellow or green items over white and blue.
I’m not sure how much difference it makes on gathering say T6 materials.
I think it is worth to raise magic find to a certain extend. say 150~180. since you can do it easily. Anything over that, you can just slowly buy blue and green to salvage from the TP.
No. You just don’t agree with them and are trying to shrug them off as nothing as you cannot argue against them.
No, I meant what I said and said what I meant, if you want your points to back your position then you’ll need to do better.
So arguments about what the affects that could happen if precursors were made easier and/or cheaper to get are automatically invalid because they disagree with what you believe? That’s essentially what you’re saying while making very little effort to actually back up your claims.
legendary was much cheaper 1 year ago. That don’t mean the economy was completely broken 1 year ago.
I dont’ think people are saying making precursor much easier, making it slightly easier wont’ broke the economy.
Why don’t you guys just go play a different games like Wow, or Wildstar that have endgame instead of complaining about a game that is widely known not to have endgame.
Isn’t it widely known GW2 dont’ have endgame or (don’t have traditional endgame)?
So if you already know GW2 dont’ have endgame, yet you still play it, and now you are complaining it dont’ have endgame…
I think the use of entitlement kind of place the blame on the players. But more or less players always complain if they don’t like something.
I think the truth is GW2 is just like any other Korean cashshop mmorpg. The payment model dictate how the game is designed. The real reason legendary is so expensive so a certain fraction of players will always be out of money and they’ll be pushed to buy gems.
Players shouldn’t complain about precursor price because it is your fault that you play a cashshop game. If you dont’ like the system, you should go play subscription or freemium games. Because quite honestly GW2 is already one of the most lenient cashshop games out there.
Again, you’re basing it on observations. Saying that you’ve seen plenty of players that have their legendary weapons so that must mean that making changes to how players can easily get precursors won’t have a negative impact on the economy is wrong. It’s your reasoning that im arguing against here.
Do you really think there is that many thing to do with the in game economy?
The only reason our economy is the way it is now because GW2 is a cash shop game with gem->gold exchange system. And Anet is trying monetize from it.
GW2 economy is similar to any other korean pay 2 win games, except GW2 dont ‘sell power but skins. (which is a good thing for people who don’t care about skins, they don’t have to worry about being milked by Anet).
There is nothing wrong with what everyone says. The only question is why does it have to be the way it is now.
I understand what people mean by saying supplying/demand/economy. But other game have legendary too, they just make a very long quest to get it(probably even more fun than the way it is implemented in GW2).
I understand GW2 is after all a cash shop game, so the economy follows closely the way Anet makes money. I just don’t think precursor being expensive have that much to do with ingame economy. It’s probably more to do with, it is better to be expensive so people’ll buy gem.
As a quick aside. Gems in the currency exchange are finite. You may buy gems with real money to your hearts content, but if you don’t put any of them gems into the currency exchange the currency exchange’s stock of gems never changes.
Think of it this way. The government can print as much money as they want, that doesn’t mean your bank account has access to that money. The currency exchange does not have access to gem creation. It has a limited stock that players add and subtract from.
Ok. So I go ahead and drop $10 and get 800 gems. I then take my new gems and turn them into gold. Wait…
The exchange rate I wrote down earlier today was 100 gems turning into 12.16 gold. So 800 gems thus gets me 97.28 gold.
Now the last time I saw a gold spam it was for something like 100 gold for $10. HMMM.
So if I’m willing to take a risk, be stupid, or whatever you want to call it, I can get More gold from the spammers than I can from ANET.
Interesting, Yes? So I’ve said this before… WHY would I EVER trade gems for gold? There’s no profit in it for me. In fact, one heck of a loss as the system sits.
Question: What’s to stop ANET from dumping, oh say, One Million Gems into the pot?
Well?
Was there a point to your post?
One wonders at the education of youth these days. Explicitly, why would I buy gems from ANET when it is “potentially” possible to get MORE gold by purchasing it from a gold seller?
“Shakes head”.
possible of scam or get your account banned?
I bought gold from gold seller before in other games. Obviously you get more gold for the bucks. But it is much safer to buy it from the company directly.
Again, fully agree. I really don’t need my credit cards messed w/, my game account messed w/, etc. But that’s ME. Others may be willing to run the risk. YOU did elsewhere!
I think more than anything most games dont’ allow you to buy gold from the company directly, that’s why I took the risk.
For games that I can buy gold from the company directly, I usually just buy it from the company.
no you can only farm it once a day. Regardless how many character you have. If you farmed it in the human instance already you won’t be able to farm it in the other (norn/asura/char) instance.
As a quick aside. Gems in the currency exchange are finite. You may buy gems with real money to your hearts content, but if you don’t put any of them gems into the currency exchange the currency exchange’s stock of gems never changes.
Think of it this way. The government can print as much money as they want, that doesn’t mean your bank account has access to that money. The currency exchange does not have access to gem creation. It has a limited stock that players add and subtract from.
Ok. So I go ahead and drop $10 and get 800 gems. I then take my new gems and turn them into gold. Wait…
The exchange rate I wrote down earlier today was 100 gems turning into 12.16 gold. So 800 gems thus gets me 97.28 gold.
Now the last time I saw a gold spam it was for something like 100 gold for $10. HMMM.
So if I’m willing to take a risk, be stupid, or whatever you want to call it, I can get More gold from the spammers than I can from ANET.
Interesting, Yes? So I’ve said this before… WHY would I EVER trade gems for gold? There’s no profit in it for me. In fact, one heck of a loss as the system sits.
Question: What’s to stop ANET from dumping, oh say, One Million Gems into the pot?
Well?
Was there a point to your post?
One wonders at the education of youth these days. Explicitly, why would I buy gems from ANET when it is “potentially” possible to get MORE gold by purchasing it from a gold seller?
“Shakes head”.
possible of scam or get your account banned?
I bought gold from gold seller before in other games. Obviously you get more gold for the bucks. But it is much safer to buy it from the company directly.
A game is not a business. Players can’t be seen as money source. Ofcourse they have to make money. But if they see the player only as a way to make money, the game isn’t any better as a F2P title from EA.
Who else is going to pay for the game?
The problem is you are assuming this game is better than a F2P title from EA… (in turns of their monetary methods)
Not saying GW2 isn’t a well made game compare to EA. But the monetary methods are the same.
I dont’ even know black lion chest drop those items. (but I haven’t played GW2 for a few month).
Maybe Anet is trying to make black lion chest more valuable so people’ll actually buy black lion key. Or your friend is trolling you, because those item isn’t in the loot table before.
You can buy 2 dungeon runs in a row for 70% exp, then DR kicks in. The DR resets in ~30mins so I don’t think that’s gonna be a valid option.
Forgot about DR.. but… DR only works on the same path, no?
So you can buy two CMp1 then two CMp2 then two CMp3, right?
Not only that, TA and AC are both easily accessible for new characters.
True, still I think that would be too much trouble just for keyfarming.
If this method became popular enough that you can buy a run on more or less on demand, it might not be so bad.
People do key farming runs because they are practical. You’d need to buy 150 dungeon runs to get a single black lion weapon.
There are probably easier way to make money. Not to mention you need to be lvl10 to start personal story, so my calculation is probably wrong, you’ll need to gain 8 level … basically needing to buy 11 dungeon runs for a single key. You really think people’ll buy 330 dungeon runs for a single black lion weapon?
Making a Legendary is the same as it was from day 1. The only difference now is that more players are gaining wealth, so more are now wanting to start their Legendary Weapon quest. Due to this, Demand for all mats required to make Legendary components increased in value.
Think back to the beginning. Anet intended for Legendary Weapons to take almost a year to complete. At the most Casual gamer rate of maybe 1 hour of playing per day, that 300 hours would equal close to a year.
That’s precisely what I’m trying to say. When World of Warcraft was first released, they make a pvp system where everyone compete for ranking, and the more people compete for it, the harder it is to rank up and get Grand Marshal Gear. If you are on a populated server, it is much harder to get Grand Marshal Gear compare to lesser populated server.
I dont’ see why it should be that way. If more people want an item, there should be ways for them to get it directly. (maybe precursor crafting if they ever implement it).
There are other games with legendary too. But they didn’t say since there are more people that want the item they’ll make it harder to get it.
Yet the same JS quote that I’ve seen before. So that would mean that the system is designed to continually reduce the exchange power of Gold to Gems, which means that at some point in the future we will be paying 100 gold for 100 gems.
If that happened you can buy a legendary for 40$ real money.
Guy got basically 62 tickets out of 1000 keys, so that’d be what? ~ 1 ticket every 16 runs?
that is with the double ticket events right? so maybe 1 in 30 if normally???
You only gain 0.7 levels, so you need to buy 7 dungeon run to gain from level5->10. I don’t think it is very practicle(buy 7 dungeon runs just for 1 key). Not to mention all 7 runs can’t be done in the same day else there is diminishing return.
I get a bunch of key from leveling a character to lvl80 and doing map completion. Obviously at a much slower rate. So there is still ways to acquire black lion keys.
I’m not sure what awson rewards Anet is given to new players. Some assasin’s crest, mining pick, 80 copper gem, bind on pickup green/rare which salvage into 3 silver materials…
you know maybe a trident precursor costing 90 gold is too expensive consider almost no one want it.
You know maybe a trident precursor costing 90 gold is about right for the number of people who want it and their respective willingness to pay, given the supply.
Right but the reason I said that is other people are saying Where is the fairness if Anet decides to make Precursor A drop 50% more than Precursor B, just because people desire Precursor A more?
What’s the big deal if Anet really decide to make every precursor drop more. And actually increase the supply of torch precursor.
Not to mention there already are way more GS precurosr than torch precursor because people mystic forge them.
And since I have a background in business, I’m here on the forums to educate people that the more profitable and successful NCSoft/Anet is, the more us players will benefit in the long run. If I have to spend thousands of $ over the life of the game to support a company that I like, I have no issues.
They can make money a lot more of it if they start giving things people want to spend money for. They tell me an expansion is coming and I’ll be happy to open my wallet, until then no thanks I will keep my cash.
what if they actually give an expansion, but that expansion totally sucks.
Maybe, just maybe, I’m on the forums to improve the game, so I can enjoy the game for the next year. I’m not on the forums to be told that I have to leave the game to make a change.
And since I have a background in business, I’m here on the forums to educate people that the more profitable and successful NCSoft/Anet is, the more us players will benefit in the long run. If I have to spend thousands of $ over the life of the game to support a company that I like, I have no issues.
If they ask for money to develop new content, I’ll give them money. If they want me to pay for RNG, screw them, I won’t do that.
No one has a gun to your head forcing you to open BLC’s. These not right? If there is blink twice and I’ll send help.
As I already said, skins are the main goal in this game. So you either have to dumb a lot of gold or pay to progress.
ya you probably have to pay lots of gold, but no one says you need to open the BLC yourself. It’s probably better you don’t and just use real cash and buy it off trading post.
In all fairness, put yourself in the developer’s shoes. If you are him, all you care is how much profit Anet is making and not, you need to grind 3 to 4 times longer for what you previously need to.
But a DEV should care that it takes say EIGHT times as much time. That’s the sort of thing that discourages new players and makes them go somewhere else to play.
there is a reason I didn’t say 8 times as much time. Since you actually earn more gold compare to before.
If the price of everything went up, you also earn more money from the loots you sell.
Maybe, just maybe, I’m on the forums to improve the game, so I can enjoy the game for the next year. I’m not on the forums to be told that I have to leave the game to make a change.
And since I have a background in business, I’m here on the forums to educate people that the more profitable and successful NCSoft/Anet is, the more us players will benefit in the long run. If I have to spend thousands of $ over the life of the game to support a company that I like, I have no issues.
If they ask for money to develop new content, I’ll give them money. If they want me to pay for RNG, screw them, I won’t do that.
That is why I say there is a door out. I spend a good fair amount of my time playing korean grinders and pay them 100$ a month. Quite honestly, I love those korean grinders, they are really fun, but eventually I get sick of paying 100$ a month and stop playing.
It seemed like RNG box have become part of the game. Most likely that’s something you won’t be able to change no matter how much you complain.
you know maybe a trident precursor costing 90 gold is too expensive consider almost no one want it.
I dont’ know where you get the idea some junk need to cost 90 gold.
You don’t need to make everyone compete for the xxx amount of precursor dropped each month. Everyone can be a Jedi, as long as you work for it, not “only 10 people can become a jedi each month” and have 1000 people fight for it.
I won’t personally say making precursor easier is a solution. But I dont’ think your logic is an authority of what it should be.
what I personally felt is if legendary is the endgame for many people, unless Anet keep making more endgame, people’ll get sick of the game anyway.
well, it’ll get a bit less insulting when price of all items in the black lion chest sky rocketed with the removal of key farming.
Oh totally. I’m going to be ecstatic when I get :
- a crafting booster (or any of them really)
- a large guild discovery
- 1 dye !
Oh man, I better stop opening them. I don’t want my heart to go out on me out of the sheer excitement I go through every time I open a chest and get a box o’ fun or an essence of luck ! That’s why I stopped salvaging, I was getting so many essences it wasn’t healthy.
And don’t get me started on those incredibly hard to get scrolls of knowledge that takes up now 3 bank spaces !
…It’s always insulting to open a BL chest. When you get something good the only reason you’re happy is because you didn’t get kitten.
right but maybe black lion weapon or pemanent license price will sky rocket so it is less insulting that way.
it does bother me that it’ll take 2 to 3 times more time to grind a legendary compare to what it used to be a few month the game is out.
The thing is legendary have become an endgame for many people. And once they get their legendary their endgame is gone. I seen many people quit right after they got their legendary.
And over time people are less and less likely to spend real money in GW2. We can only hope Anet will make legendary less painful to acquire. But not likely they will, since having many expensive desirable items help persuade people to spend real money on the gem store.
To anyone making the argument: “Business exist to make money,” I have to say you are falling into a logical pitfall here.
Businesses exist to provide a good or service to us. Their objective is not (or rather should not) to fleece their customers as much as possible while doing as little as possible. That is considered a parasite to society.
It boils down to: “Are you making games to make money? Or are you making money to create games?” The former is contemptuous while the latter is not.
You make something, be it a game or what ever to sell and make money. Sometimes theses things start out of love to do these things. But ultimately it’s to make money. Some company’s are not so in your face about it. But they all want to make money. Look at how much WoW must make. £10 a month sub x what is it 7 million players? Go on tell me they are not in it for the money.
Making money out of a product you have created, especially if you plan to live from it’s revenue, is logical.
To maximise the revenue at the cost of client satisfaction is not.
You have a choice not to play GW2. If you are not satisfied go play other games. Of course maximizing their profit is their goal. If people are not satisfied, they’ll leave the game. The only reason they havn’t be milking us that badly is because they dont’ want too many people to leave the game.
Maybe, just maybe, ANet would sell more keys of the chests wouldn’t be RNG based.
This assumes that people who key farm would spend $ on keys in the absence of key farming.
On top of the rarity of ticket scraps, they force you to get 10 just to make 1. Its a system obviously designed to make chunks of money[…]
For what you get, black lion keys are way over priced, they shouldn’t be more than 25 gems per key in my opinion.
Considering keys are $1.60 right now, it’s really friggin’ insulting for what little we get for it. Even as a bundle, they’re too costly.
Dropping them to 40 Gems ($0.50) is something even a frugal player can flick a few quarters at.
well, it’ll get a bit less insulting when price of all items in the black lion chest sky rocketed with the removal of key farming.
In all fairness, put yourself in the developer’s shoes. If you are him, all you care is how much profit Anet is making and not, you need to grind 3 to 4 times longer for what you previously need to.
This game has all kinds of players who want all kinds of things. I’m pretty sure most players never post on the forums. I’m pretty sure Anet uses metrics of what people actually do in game to figure out what they need to do next.
Say you have 100 people who love pizza. You don’t have pizza to give them at the moment, so you offer them apples and bread. 70% of the people chose apples over bread. They must love bread. We’ll have bread from now on.
That’s basically what’s going on with the game right now. Their metrics may show every one gobbling up Living Story like it’s their favorite thing ever, but if it’s the only new content available, competing with content that’s 2 years old… it’s not an accurate measure of what players want.
I don’t know why they don’t use the in game survey system that we had in beta. People actually playing the game could give quick surveys on the content they want to see next.
well, I think there is a market for everything. Those people who want pizza should go to pizza hut. Those people want bread or apple can stick with whatever Anet is still feeding them.
Maybe Anet chef just isn’t good at making pizza, so instead of competing in the pizza market, they do what they are good at, which is making salad and bread.
Lol @making maps in 6-12 months and dungeons taking even longer. I just wonder how 99% of the other MMOs can release new raids and dungeons every couple of months.
I think the problem is 99% of the other MMOs actually focus their resource on new raids and dungeons.
GW2 however focus their resource on living story, events, and mini games. Not to mention, dungeon in GW2 is quite terrible made in the first place, so it is probably a bit hard to expand it.
And on that note, why would Anet make them craftable? It doesn’t make them any more money. Keeping the demand for precursors high and the drop rate low just means more and more people biting the bullet and finally shelling out real cash for them.
And there it is…
I don’t really think people take into account the absurd amount of money they make every time someone caves and RMT’s a pre or the full legendary.
Assuming a 10-1g gem to gold ratio and a price tag of 600g or 3000g for the weapon, it would take 30,000 gems to buy a full legendary and 6,000 gems to buy a precursor.
That’s a lot of cheddar they have to consider giving up.
Right but I think they’ll eventually add in precursor crafting. And I think we’ll eventually have an expansion.
They’ll release precursor crafting before the expansion to throw people some bones and hope they come back and play GW2.
Worst of all is that it seems like they just don’t understand what the players actually want. They keep making the same mistakes. It’s hard to imagine that changing anytime soon, which is unfortunate.
What players actually want? All players or just players who think like you? Maybe they’re giving some players what they want.
Yeah, I did word that too matter-of-factly.
I mean, I don’t think that they know what players want. I feel I have a very common perception of the game, but I can’t know for sure.
Actually I think it is you who don’t know what you really want.
You should go play other games instead of hoping this game will become what you want.
Sure I hope this game is a B2P version of World of Warcraft. (because quite honestly the pvp and dungeon is just terrible in GW2). And I actually like everything about GW2 except the pvp and dungeon. But instead of hoping GW2 improve and get better dungeon and pvp, it is probably easier to just play other games which have good dungeon and pvp.
Now compare to some Korean grinders or wow clone. Whenever they release new content people abandon the old content, and grind the new content instead.
Since when old content decay is a good thing ? Making the new content as good to do as the old is a better way than make the old one useless.
Except the new content isn’t as good. All the new content are quickly discarded, or made temporary. Or the reward just isn’t good so people dont’ do it.
People are doing the same thing everyday, they got tired and bored.
I also want to mention since there are many “small” guild. There should be some way for small guild to form alliance to participate in GvG event(that is if Anet even intend to make them in the future).
Usually when a new patch comes out. I try it for a few hours and I go back doing what I have been doing for the past years, because the new content is quickly exhausted and the new content isn’t as rewarding as the old farm methods people been doing forever.
An example is the TA aetherblade dungeon. I ran it a few times. And everytime I finished, someone in the group will say “I’ll never run the dungeon again”. And they go back to do cof and AC, because that is more rewarding.
Now compare to some Korean grinders or wow clone. Whenever they release new content people abandon the old content, and grind the new content instead.
There is a reason people get bored of this game because after 2 years, they are still doing cof and AC. Sure Anet release a bunch of content often. But those are never core content people do repetitively.
Even if they made the LS repeatable or non temporary. How many people would repeat the LS as a core content. Most likely they spend their time doing the same dungeon tour they been doing the past 2 years.
