Guild Wars 2

Wilco.1458:

I find it hysterical that the PvErs are going crazy over the change and think it’s the worst thing ever.

I find it hysterical you’re talking about PvE in a PvP forum.

i could have been banned when you sent the pm, idk

once you reach a certain level of punishment you get banned from even sending pms, lol.

Well I actually find these story instances interesting. Some mobs hit like a train, the jumping mechanics are there but not too overbearing and there’s cool little mechanics like the gusts of wind pushing you around, boon stealing mobs (assassins with 15 might stacks off me gg) and kasmeer’s phantasmal defender is clearly pushing the zerkburger meta by letting us stay alive.

we literally just lost 2% damage

not a big deal

No Pulse.2967:

And you all thought PVT leechers were bad.

says the guy who wanted to use a raider’s chest on pvt

What conditions need to be good in group content is to be able to reach their peak damage basically at the start of a fight. Berserker builds can stack 25 might and get vuln quickly up to 20+, but conditions need to ramp up first.

First I disagree. I still think a trinity even though its repeatable and boring its still more complex than LOS/Stacking which is also repeatable. At least moving around fighting adds and whatever extra mechanic the fight has in the usual trinity fight is less mind numbing.

It’s literally not more complex. You’re throwing the words “complex” and “depth” around but they have no meaning.

So, fights with adds:

Mossman and Archdiviner. These are fun fights, you should try them some time.

You have, repetitive method 1 (trinity) and repetitive method 2 (LOS/Stack). One base its self in using 3 diferent roles, positioning, moving, taking up alts, change targets, etc. The other one is just stand still (for the vast majority of the fights) and follow skill rotation (which is also used in trinity, don’t forget that trinity also includes skill rotation, interrupts, reflects, everything you do in GW2).

There are roles in GW2 as well – you’re just choosing to conveniently ignore them.

Take our latest invitational where groups had a 2 ele, 1 thief, 1 warrior 1 guard composition:

You had elementalists for offensive support (might, fury) and DPS
You had thieves for their unique stealth utility, projectile absorption if need be and damage mitigation through blinds plus damage
You had warrior supporting with banners, battle res and their own damage
You had guardian which was basically pure defensive support offering blocks, reflection, condition cleansing, mob positioning and further damage mitigation through blinds.

Now, regarding your personal question to me, which I see no point at all in this discussion; but I’ll reply none the less. Depends on what level of playing it you refer to. At this point I just log in, rush 4 dungeons with pugs and log out. I only dedicate 1 – 1.5 hrs a day. If I have more time, I get outside and roam some map to do events or wvw or some world bosses. I’d love to dedicate more to it but I don’t see the point, and trust me; I don’t even play it for the dungeons; I just do that to get some gold in little time while I wait for new content.

So if you’re hardly even playing the game, why even post in the forum? You’re just adding a negative aura by making incorrect critique about a game you literally hardly even play.

bri.2359:

OP,
A few months back I pulled The Legend out of the MF. I already had all the clovers, world completion, gift of battle, stacks of T6 mats. etc. All I needed was around 150 unidentified dyes, that I could have easily bought. However, the game-breaker for me were the Arah tokens. No way was going to run that dungeon for the number of tokens I needed, so I sold The Legend.

Regarding which is better, twilight or biofrost for a mesmer, it depends on how you play your mesmer. I run a shatter mesmer exclusively in PvE. Apart from unlocking the skills, I have never used a staff since on my mesmer, I only use greatsword and occasionally sword/focus. I don’t even have a lvl 80 staff for this character.

Regardless of which legendary you want, just buy it. Oh, and doing 100% world completion is a far more ‘epic’ task than crafting a fancy skin …

you literally could have just bought paths for 3 days and you would have had your arah tokens

If you really want to relate both mechanics, at least the trinity with all the years it already have, is 3x more complex than what we have here. Consider raiding a trinity as well? have you ever thought there are games that have many years that have at least 5 different roles not just tank, heal and dps?

The current meta forgets everything about rpgs and bring nothing new. LoS/Stack/all dps, its not new… its how MMORPGS used to be BEFORE the trinity. This game cant even compete against a game with a trinity.

A game with fights that use exactly the same trinity fight mechanics is not “3x more complex” at all, in fact it basically tells you everything you need to know before fighting it – that you’ll need some sort of aggro management, you’ll need some sort of squishy damage dealers and you’ll need a guy who keeps them all up when they get low and apply passive buffs to them to make them more efficient at what they’re doing. If you go in to a GW2 fight for the first time, you don’t have that prior knowledge, you have to pick things up as you fight the enemy. It doesn’t help of course that the descriptors are completely useless.

If you don’t think the game can compete, why are you even playing anyway? “I don’t like this game’s gameplay so I’ll just carry on playing it because reasons”.

This is an interesting point. Why is it only 1 of the 4 finisher types wants players to stay close together?

Whirl finishers in light fields encourage players staying close together for cleanse, and leap finishers are just single target IIRC. I’m pretty sure whirling inside a boss with an ethereal field would cause a lot of confusion stacks too.

I think it all boils down to, this game’s combat is designed for PvP and PvP alone, which is the vast majority of balance decisions are made with PvP in mind. They just shoehorned PvP combat into PvE and called it good, thus we are left in a situation were over half the elements of the combat system are woefully underutilized.
Things like Active flanking and movement, simply aren’t needed, and most enemies are about as easy to read as goombas and more that willing to charge blindly to thier deaths.

I’m sure when I was doing pure axe Lupicus, had jack all for endurance and had to basically sidestep swipes I wasn’t actively flanking or using movement at all. Definitely not.

My advice if you want depth in combat, go into PvP. You won’t find anything here that won’t eventually become mindnumbingly dull.

lol.

afk on points with bunker builds is clearly the epitome of depth. in fact, can we not even throw that word around? People use it to try and sound like their opinions are informed, but it literally means nothing.

Conditions are never the “wrong build”, one condition user in a group is awesome for dungeons and conditions are great in solo PvE. The biggest issue is zerg PvE and multiple condition users in a group.

Great in solo PvE, not so great in group dungeons. Other party members are passively applying their own so you lose a lot of your damage, plus your conditions don’t scale with vulnerability or damage modifiers, so in an ideal situation you’ll cap out at like 6,000DPS while direct damage players will cap out at 11,000 – 13,000DPS.

It is a technical flaw that Anet has not been able to fix. Condition users were designed to be viable in ALL content, and they would be if the computational flaw can be fixed and the cap moved to a personal one instead of a group one.

And conditions are viable in all content, just not optimal.

As I understand – you think that only viable builds for PvE in grp(dungeons\FoTM etc.) is power based(mostly berserk) and all others wrong builds…but If some ppl wants that condi builds can make such damage in PvE like power builds – it is bad?

I want condition builds to be on par with direct damage for group content, but it’s never going to happen because of technical limitations of condition/boon stacking.

To reiterate: any build is viable, but only some are optimal. People complain builds X, Y and Z aren’t viable, but you can link me literally the stupidest build possible and I’d be able to call it viable.

What it means by play as you want is that you can do any content you like and be rewarded for it, not run the wrong builds for content.

You could have at least looked up the context of it before quoting that.

Deathmond.7328:

Why It can`t work like in WoW\Rift\Swtor or other MMO game?
WHen we fight world boss\dungeon creatures\open world content – some dragon or something else take condition damage from me and all players who damage him? He suffer from my bleed+burning and from others players bleed+burning or poison or torment. Those condition effects should not replace each other – it’s just absurd!
I understand the state of sPvP or WvW but in PvE it need to work in another way!

Trying to use conditions in open world is like trying to stick a brick in to a plug socket, you’re using it for the wrong type of content.

Berserker or assassin is the optimal gear choice for mesmer, but if you don’t want to be kicked from a group just join one or make one yourself with no requirements.

exactly

ahahahahahaha

PvE is not an esport

And yet we had a tournament a few days ago.

considering boons have such short range, I would make the assumption stacking was intended.

krytan chest !

Mesket.5728:

maha.7902:

a strategy working well =/= design flaw

The same strategy working in every single situation is

tank holds aggro
healer heals
dps’ers chill and dps

it works every fight clearly a design flaw

Make some suggestions to fix the problem then.

This may surprise you but

wait for it

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-

-

-

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there is no problem

If ANet simply fixes Condition Damage to work well

brings in new weapon choices to give a little more diversity

From the classes I play…

Warriors make use of greatswords, axes, warhorns, swords, maces and longbows (this is referring to at a speed clear level)

Guardians make use of greatswords, swords, hammers, foci and scepters

Mesmers make use of swords, pistols and foci

Thieves make use of daggers, pistols, swords and shortbows.

Sounds like a lot of weapons are usable to me.

Most people seem to want an Ele, War, or Guard. I have seen multiple LFG’s up looking for very specific classes. The time I get to play (after work and hanging out with my daughter) I am running into more of these than normal PUGs

1. go on to lfg
2. go to dungeon of choice
3. click advertise your party
4. type in “looking for more path [number] anyone welcome”
5. group fills in like 2 minutes
6. ???
7. Profit

I did not say blanks out entire builds.

Except it does. Boon conversion shuts off trait options, it prevents you using utilities, it makes certain weapons completely unviable.

Adapting to a situation=Skill. Copy and Paste dominating EVERY aspect of the game is not.

build #1 is bad so let’s copy paste build #2 for this situation
lets go back to build #1 after this is done

How does this fix anything?

You pre-emptively aegis, you don’t wait for the tell then cast it.

So you think a room which literally blanks your entire build and utilities is good design? Boon conversion is a terrible idea. Take guardian for example. You no longer gain might with your greatsword auto chain, symbol of wrath retaliation is converted in to a condition, you can’t retreat for aegis and swiftness, you can’t use any of you virtues since they will basically read “apply two conditions to your party”. Hammer auto chain will get the protection converted to a condition.

A room with things becoming immune to physical/condition damage at certain times just means you get one or two guys retraiting to a condition build so that they can burn the boss/mobs down during condition phases while the physical damage players basically just go afk. Then when direct damage is useable again, the condi users go afk. You will have fights with half your party literally standing around doing nothing.

If you think this game is just mindlessly mashing the same keys over and over again, you clearly don’t play it to any decent standard – every time I press a skill in the game I do it with full intention.

Incorrect.

In PvE I’ve come across countless warriors who not only don’t play on my level, but will never play on my level. There are PvP warriors who will never play to a decent level. There are WvW warriors who will never play to a decent level.

Warriors are challenging to master, just like every other class is.

a strategy working well =/= design flaw

Stooperdale.3560:

maha.7902:

Why do you think class balance should be based around pug misconceptions? You take heavy classes because they’re just easy mode, not because they’re efficient.

Class balance in dungeons is fine, people are just dumb and think warriors are overpowered because apparently we’re still in 2012.

You’re still taking the balance on the elite speed runner view of June 2014. Elites think the classes are balanced because with max dps everything dies so fast it poses no threat. Rangers and Elementalists have a handful of high dps skills/traits so they are completely fine, really? What happens when high performing skills are shaved down on the next class balancing update? PUGs actually see a more rounded view of the game as they see all the problems that dungeons can pose, not perfect runs with best builds and well tried tactics.

I rarely run in organised groups. I mostly pug.

Class balance, bar necro, is fine.

cyn.6748:

That’s just really surprising how this game is focused on pve.
I would never think that those records versus IA in pve would have more interest than tournaments in pvp.
For sure there’s only one game mode but pvp matches are still more interessting to watch than this imo.

In gw, you could definitely see how gvgs, scrim and ha were on top instead of doa,fow,uwsc…

That’s your opinion

literally spent half the dungeon doing the essence collectors

gotta love time gates

tichorum.2415:

The OP doesn’t know what he’s saying. That tournament had like 50-60 viewers. Even the Mistpedia Weeklies get a couple hundred.

?

Our dungeon invitational had a solid 1.3 – 1.5k

Why do you think class balance should be based around pug misconceptions? You take heavy classes because they’re just easy mode, not because they’re efficient.

Class balance in dungeons is fine, people are just dumb and think warriors are overpowered because apparently we’re still in 2012.

Intuneric.7652:

This discussion for real? Dont even know if i should argument this or just facepalm and move on
To make it short, aegis on mossman exploding attack and @ archdiviner before the stun in the second phase, both times only if the group members are close to the boss. Am i good to go now?
Why am i writing this
Aegis for yourself is not proper, its terrible, i can simply dodge instead

If you’re holding aggro against Mossman or Archdiviner you should be doing defensive rotations with your f3 virtue, retreat, focus 5, renewed focus or even just dodging backwards. That way your party can whack on them from behind them while you’re keeping yourself up by blocking.

Intuneric.7652:

Heltzer.2435:

Intuneric.7652:

woot? how is the ~ 11k hp guardian not a challenge in fractals while warrior is ?

So IMO a glass phalanx warrior has less options to prevent dmg than a glass guardian. It can take twice the hits tho….;which in fractal 50 twice the hits is usually two hits.

Thats what i ment and mostly because im sick of getting one shotted by mossman, archdiviner, etc. Blind doesnt work on bosses, aegis i never use for myself since i always save it to res people safely and all im left with is the focus block. And so depending how you look at it 1 mistake means you’re dead where as a warrior u’re still left with enough hp to be able to recover quickly.
I know there are again other arguments, but lets not run in circles here so aaaaaanyway, back on topic, op admits defeat lol. Is there a reason to not like being effective ?

Stop saving it for res’ing people and save it for whoever actually needs it most at the time – either you because you’re holding aggro or your party because people are lacking aegis.

Sharing boons, cleaving mobs, positioning bosses.

If you spread out you go out of boon radius, can’t cleave, and bosses/mobs move around everywhere.

DragonWhimsy.6489:

I agree that stacking in dungeons needs to go. That is not fun game play and is just bad design. It’s a major reason I can’t recommend this game to my MMO traditionalist friends. It’s just an embarrassment that it is still a factor 2 years after launch.

I also agree we need build templates. And not just in PvP and WvW. Though that isn’t really a flaw, just a feature that would be realllllly nice.

Everything else in the OP is just personal opinion. I wouldn’t call any of the others “fundamental flaws”.

And the Living Story has been going for over a year now, it’s obviously sustainable. And until recently didn’t even touch on the dragons.

The Living Story is obviously more successful than it’s detractors realize because it’s the only MMO story people talk about on an ongoing basis. No one talks about SWTOR’s story now despite it being one of the selling points of the game, no one talks about WoW’s story unless a new expansion is coming out. It generates a lot of excitement. People talk about it the way you’d talk about your favorite ongoing comic or TV series.

Taking out the Living Story would make this game soulless and destroy one of the things that makes this game different. The Living Story is now at the heart of what makes GW2 special. It will certainly change and evolve over time (like season 2 being almost all permanent content), but it will never go away. Nor should it. Because it wasn’t there at launch people think it’s an optional add on. It’s not. It’s the core of what GW2 is now. The highly touted dynamic events from the manifesto failed to create a world that seemed alive. The Living Story is their second attempt.

What do you want to replace stacking with? Everyone spreading out and ranging?

Tears.5627:

I miss the feel The Deep and Urgoz Warren had in GW1. I was just thinking how neat it would be to have a dungeon that puts a constant debuff on you until you down the boss of the section. I would be especially excited to see a dungeon like this that specifically murders the META groups that just copy and paste everything they see online to farm this game of any fun for casual player or players that don’t want to be limited to 3 classes just to shave off 2 minutes a run.

This doesn’t sound like someone extremely bitter about people who they don’t even play with and wants to offer a terrible suggestion to punish them for no logical reason.

Not at all.

Barbarka.9362:

- Grand Master Filthy Casual

You do not have the qualifications to become a grandmaster such as myself. Meditate on this.

-GMB Swiftpaw.

So let’s see, you have 30/20/0/20/0, 30/20/0/0/20, 10/20/0/25/15, 10/20/0/20/20 and 30/30/0/0/10 builds and you’re complaining about diversity.

“I can’t use a weapon I enjoy” =/= lack of diversity

And there is more than one melee weapon for most classes, just not mesmer.

The variety right now fine, people are just mad they can’t shoot with their laser and for that to be considered optimal.

If you, say, couldn’t see the difference in execution between SC killing the COF story champion with the weapon summons and other guilds doing the same thing I don’t know what to say.

Over and over again people stacked, used fiery greatswords and still got destroyed, so that should probably ring a few bells in your head that there’s a little more to it than stack + fgs, you’re just choosing to conveniently ignore the finer parts of the tactics – let alone the team splits for COF story and AC story which probably 99.9% of people had never even seen performed until that day.

Hold on… your signature implies otherwise. YOUR twitch channel has boss solos and more. You also refer to DnT, which is a guild well-known for being speedrun-addicted, doing boss-solos and stuff, doing extensive theory-crafting and number-crunching, and last but not least discrediting everyone who doesn’t 100% agree with them. Nah… you’re not one of those 1337-guys. I mean, you don’t even talk like one of them… oh wait. You do. Every now and then, and also in the last part of your post (not gonna quote the other examples a second time in the same post):

We correct people who make mistakes and you’re … calling us out on that? Doing the community a service by giving them good information is bad? Are you serious?

You know… dead DPS is no DPS. Also, if people die a couple of times and then try to range the bosses instead and succeed… they will keep ranging them. Because you know… wiping 5 times takes much longer than ranging them and killing successfully in 10 minutes. Because if you wipe 5 times and then end up ranging them anyway, you’ll take 40 minutes, plus you end up frustrated. Why would you want that?

And if the melee person dies at 50% they did more than the people afk ranging for the rest of the fight.

Why would you not want to learn how to melee? Yeah, you’ll die. But that’s part of the learning process.

OF COURSE there’s people like you and DnT who try to be as fast as possible. Because dungeons are your life. Because it makes you feel good. Because whatever. Does it hurt you if not everyone (hint: “not everyone” means “most players” in this case) feels like you guys?

It is slightly annoying that players show no interest in improving, as demonstrated by your post here.

“Let’s range because doing cancer DPS is better than learning how to do higher DPS”.

I’ll just leave this here.

grats SC, and grats to everyone else!

Wethospu.6437:

For next tourney I suggest allowing teams to restart the dungeon at any time (if it bugs or wipe or just because they can). This would keep it more interesting for watchers when it’s not instant gg.

No.

Stream is so good so far.

So much for “stack and spam skills 1111111”, we’ve had a fair amount of deaths and wipes.

HYPE HYPE HYPE 20 MINUTES

Okay. Now that this is clear, let’s look at the other stuff you’ve written…

I almost never run with guild. Literally ask anyone in DnT right now, I literally never show up for daily dungeon tours because organised runs bore me to tears.

You talk like we’d have only one weaponset. Start in GS, switch to sword, problem solved. The more AoE, the quicker groups of trash-mobs die. And since iZerker is one of our two only AoE-phantasms… why not use it? You can switch to Sword/Focus right after, you know.

Because the interrupt on sword/pistol as second set is better imo. Open up w/warden, switch to sw/p, interrupt a damaging skill.

The rest is again something that I’ve already covered in the beginning of this post… you can’t compare DnT (or similar) with pug-groups of people who’ve never ran with speedrun-groups who pretty much spend most of their playtime in fractals and other dungeons.

Please tell me more about the speed run groups I never run with.

I know that’s not a lot compared to you guys. But I’ve done around 200 Fractals so far, and I’d say at least half of them back when Maw was the only boss-fractal. So that means I’ve probably done the Maw-fight around 30 times in total. And I’ve NEVER seen someone trying to melee those tentacles. NEVER. Not even one person in one single Maw-fight out of 30. I’m not saying it’s not possible. It’s just that… well, obviously you think just because DnT does something, everyone does it. When in fact, most players wouldn’t even get the idea to melee them.

200 Fractals and you’ve never thought to melee tentacles.

You never thought that you could double your DPS just by dodging basic choreographs or blinding it.

Well good sir, ~60 fractals done here (basically nothing) and meleeing tentacles all the time. I feel like recording the next time I do maw just to make a point of how easy it is.

For normal mobs, then you can range them while running towards them. Charr-fractal for example, after the fight vs Dulfy. You now… run towards group, Mirror Blad and iZerker, then you’re there, switch to Sword… usually you won’t even get to summon iWarden anymore, because the mobs are already dead. Same with the next group. And so on. And even if they’re not dead yet… the additional AoE from iZerker and the Mirror Blade at the beginning doesn’t hurt anyone (aside fromt he mobs). After that, you can camp sword until they are dead. Even you should agree that mobs die quicker if you already AoE them before you’re in melee-range, and if you start out with two AoE-phantasms instead of just one.

Yeah sure, they’ll die instantly on like fractal level 1 maybe. On 49s they take longer even in optimised groups. And I feel the CC on OH pistol is worth more than the completely nonexistent “burst” on GS.

For bosses… well, let’s just say that pug-groups (aka everything that isn’t a speedrun-group) usually ends up ranging most bosses. And guess what… they die. Maybe in 5 minutes instead of 2. But they die.

“For bosses, well excuse me as I give no examples at all because there’s no excuse for ranging”.

moving on

Well, you know… to give a bit of an extreme example… humans also can pull trucks. Can YOU pull trucks? Humans can also fly to the moon. Can YOU fly to the moon? Not? But humanity can do that. Why can’t you? Maybe because you didn’t train for it? Maybe because you lack the know-how? Because nobody ever bothered to tell you? Because you never needed to try to find out yourself because you don’t really need to do those things to be successful?

Less hyperbole, more examples please.

http://i.imgur.com/4qgZTY9.jpg

gg anet

meet frosty the fang

I’m pretty sure any decent guild could get a group of five people and literally throw that record in the trash can. The problem of course, is trying to scurry away randoms.

Wisp.2634:

This “tournament” is a joke, that’s why the teams just left. DnT organised, this crap to be more famous, because nobody cares about thier and the community records. You dont need skill to stand in the corner and use FGS or switch skills while running in stealth. The “competition”, or anything you call it, will be the random factor. I think the organizers of this tournament and the “speed clear” community, just wants more fame.

Dont blame the teams left, they just lost the fun factor, because there wont be any.

This tournament is just for this “speed clear” crew, boring kitten will flow from the streams!

But this is my opinion, have fun…

Feel free to make your own team and destroy the opposition since it’s so easy.

we do:

ac 1/2
cm 3
ta fw/up
se 1/3
cof 1
coe 1/2/3
hotw 1
arah 1/2/3/4

ac p3 has a stupid time gate, sometimes we do cm 1, se 2 is aids, cof 2 has time gates, cof 3, meh, hotw 2 and 3 are terribly boring

like to use GS and Sword/Focus for AoE-situations. I end up using it quite often in Fractals, even while stacking up in a corner. You know… start in GS, use 2, 3 and 4, switch to sword and finish them (if they are still alive, that is). Mirror Blade and iZerker do a really nice bit of damage to stacked groups of mobs. And it’s our only AoE aside from Staff 5 and iWarden (and sword cleave of course).

Placebo. You think the mirror blade bounces are doing nice damage but you’d do more just using sword auto. Warden covers cleave, mind stab is basically just a sword auto attack.

Also, in the Maw-fight it’s pretty much our only option (aside from spamming Mantra of Pain, which would be ridiculous) to kill tentacles without summoning illusions (some parties don’t like if you do that there, since the fight could (omfgtheworldwillend!) take a minute or two longer). It’s also a good option in every fight where the party doesn’t stack up and you need to range mobs/bosses. And yes, that happens to be the case VERY often, unless you are in a speedrun-group.

Or …. you can melee. Meleeing tentacles really isn’t that hard – it’s pretty much just dodge the moment they do an animation.

You also have yet to provide any example of “[a fight] you need to range [the] mobs/bosses”.

I keep asking for real examples and people keep giving me ones you can just melee on.

Also, obligatory reference to “well I don’t run in a speed clear group” – spoiler alert I rarely run in speed run groups either – and I would consider myself an average player anyway, so it’s not like you need to be some sort of mlg pro to melee bosses.

What we need is less excuses to range and more people trying to learn to melee and figure out boss choreographs. Downing is fine. Dying is fine. The key is learning the tells – and then putting your knowledge in to practice by meleeing.