Guild Wars 2

Sword dps is actually almost equal to staff

Make eternity, sell it, get a juggernaut.

Not 100% safe but it’s still quite reliable. The sheer righteousness some people in this thread are vomiting out of their keyboards trying to claim how the dungeon was intended is kind of nauseous to read though.

Kill a champion orrian warrior with ranged weapons, then kill the next one you see with melee weapons. Then come back and tell us about how ill informed we are. Ranged weapons let you kite a boss forever, you can’t with melee.

if you go staff + sc/t PU you honestly don’t have many sharper images procs anyway so dire is fine

maintaining 20-25 might with forceful Greatsword, almost permanent fury, low cooldown block on off hand sword, low cooldown evade on Greatsword, highest base HP and toughness.

If it weren’t for fall damage traits we never would have been able to have done a 4 second lupicus kill.

if you arcing slice then activate signet of fury you can have both berserkers power and get to use your adrenaline skill

why would you run a phalanx warrior in a group with an ele

There are hardly any skimpy outfits in this game. No, actually having a little bit of skin showing does not count as skimpy.

mesmers are a trash tier class in every format, make an ele

anet please nerf Mesmer some more so I can delete mine and have no qualms with doing so

A few minor things – Lilith is a death and taxes social member, not an actual guildie so I’d remove the tag next to her name, dankies (Tree) doesn’t really play any more so I massively doubt he will be mentoring, guildwarsfan and no pulse aren’t in the guild, though mugiwara is. As far as I’m aware, the KING fractal guide for uncategorised fractal advocates exploiting if you can’t kill old tom and their ascalon video had like 50 retakes to account for wipes so I’m not sure how reliable they are as guides.

Dolan T_T

Tribal reward track pleeeeeeeeeease

Allandir.6289:

Yes, of coures. I know that i can make my own group but don’t You think that sth like this destroying gameplay.

No, it isn’t. Make your own group and spend more time playing and less time complaining.

imagine if you just made your own group.

Dry top and all of the other loading screens in the new style look like trash. Kessex hills loading screen was forever ruined by whoever this guy is.

phys.7689:

maha.7902:

For gear, I think givers weapons used to be used in old engi builds. Rabid is extremely powerful for soloing heavy armour bosses (superior to berserker). For runes you have scholar, strength, ranger and aristocracy.. Infusions you have power, precision and condition damage as options. Sigils you have force, night, slaying, accuracy, battle, bursting, energy, bloodlust, perception, corruption, frailty all as options dependent on build and whether the dungeons are day or night and whether running power or condition.

rabid is basically berserker for condition damage. IE, this is mostly about offensive sets being superior because only active offense is rewarded through stats. active defense/support/control is uneffected by stats.

boon duration is one of the few exceptions to the effectiveness of stats on active skills rule, however, they basically make it really weak because they feel it might be useful. Also, some sets/group set ups negate most of the benefit for it.

Yes, sigils/runes are generally more about build, just as traits are. And can provide interesting choices. Shame the inventory/armor system doesnt encourage experimentation here.

Fact remains though, the actual armor stats, are mostly set up to have various levels of training wheels, rather than choices of how you want to actively play.

Perhaps game would be better if stats didnt exist, but they do, so they should mean more than just your skill level.

Rabid has toughness as a secondary stat, berserker has no defensive stats. Boon duration is actually incredible too, 55% might duration on condition warrior is insane.

phys.7689:

maha.7902:

If five offensively built players is calculated to be higher DPS than four offensive and one guy stacking boon power, we’ll still use five offensive builds.

What then?

problem is not that you can do this, its that since active play is dominant, dps sets are the only sets that enhance active play.

IE, yeah you should be able to do that, but you shouldnt be supporting/defending/controlling just as well people who have invested in those roles.

or rather, whether you should, or should not is the question.

As long as most stats are irrelevant to active play except one, no other stat sets will actually be very useful.

but this is already the case. A strength rune ele gives longer might stacks than a scholar rune one, a warrior with sigil of paralysation does longer CC than one without, a defensively geared and built character can hold a point better than offensively, a Mesmer traiting in to harmonious mantras and halting strike can CC better and do damage while doing so. You see active play as a problem, I don’t.

FrostSpectre.4198:

Well, if it happens because players skipped parts of the explorable paths, I highly doubt it is a bug, instead of a intended function to prevent players from skipping parts.

Hopefully ANet fixes the explorable paths so that you cannot skip events and complete the path. (Would be killing blow to solo dungeon runners, if they cannot complete all events during the path)

You actually don’t know whether it’s intended at all or not. Skipping isn’t something that needs fixing either, and there’s no reason to kill solo dungeon running when it’s one of the few interesting things left to do.

For gear, I think givers weapons used to be used in old engi builds. Rabid is extremely powerful for soloing heavy armour bosses (superior to berserker). For runes you have scholar, strength, ranger and aristocracy.. Infusions you have power, precision and condition damage as options. Sigils you have force, night, slaying, accuracy, battle, bursting, energy, bloodlust, perception, corruption, frailty all as options dependent on build and whether the dungeons are day or night and whether running power or condition.

Dual.8953:

maha.7902:

Dual.8953:

RedStar.4218:

Aside from roleplay reasons, why do you want to play with a ranged weapon ?

I’m honestly asking this question. And I don’t want to hear bullkitten like “because it’s what is told in the description” or “well I don’t. But if I did …”
The real reason. It can be anything, but I’m really interested in it.

Personal preference of combat style. Just like in any game players like the freedom to choose what they like and not be considered inferior for it. In fighting games some players like Grapplers, some like Rushdown fighters and some like Zoners, yet all of those playstyles are considered valid. Here we have a single playstyle that’s considered valid and a multitude that work but server no practical purpose in PvE.
This is a game that is supposed to promote creativity and personal preference in it’s combat. Is it right for over half the game’s combat options to be so weak they’re considered by some unviable?

Personal preference falls under role play.

Not letting you dodge the point that easily. This game’s PvE is sorely lacking in balance at the high end. The proposed change won’t fix the balance but it would make things a tad more level. Ideally PvE should have situations where both long and short range have practical applications at the top level. As it stands currently, the only situation where ranged becomes practical is when you’re class has no other option (I could argue that D/x Ele is still ranged as even Lightning Whip has more that double the range of melee and no combo tree) and a couple bosses that you pretty much can’t stand beside.
This change wouldn’t damage the meta in anyway but it would ideally alleviate some of the elitism among the pugs.
If you feel like replying to this, I ask you, why are you so dead set on keeping PvE as it is currently? Why do you not want more viable choices in the meta?

The balance at the high end is mostly fine, I don’t know what you’re talking about. Some classes are preferred but the efficiency difference is honestly quite small. I also don’t see how long and short range practical application would change anything for pugs either since pugs aren’t even close to high level, and it would not alleviate any elitism since pugs will be exclusive no matter what you do, people are even exclusive in open world where they purge pavilions of leeches or hide in blood tide coast megaservers so that potential leeches leave the map. Here is why I want pve to stay the way it is – besides outliers like fiery Greatsword, ice bow, ranger sword and necromancers having replaceable support, it’s balanced. Forcing people to range at the highest level does not make for more viable choices, it just means you have to range.

Sunshine.4680:

Maybe the problem is too many boons, might stacking and stacking in general and some classes making bosses/dungeons jokes. Maybe that is what really needs to be looked at seeing how the meta players are so rabidly against anything new. Makes me wonder why?

People say ranged is a crutch yet isn’t Zerker gear wearing, melee stacking burning down the boss asap pretty much a crutch? After all you’re just burning down the boss asap so you won’t have to really do much other than burn down an HP punching bag.

You say that as if we aren’t using defensive boons, utilities and positioning to keep ourselves alive. I would argue ice bows and fiery greatswords are crutches, but simply using offensive builds and trying to kill bosses isn’t a crutch at all, and it’s not like wearing PVT and ranging would make it any harder.

you hope to help mesmers by posting weak builds that will get then kicked from groups

Azhure.1857:

maha.7902:

Dual.8953:

RedStar.4218:

Aside from roleplay reasons, why do you want to play with a ranged weapon ?

I’m honestly asking this question. And I don’t want to hear bullkitten like “because it’s what is told in the description” or “well I don’t. But if I did …”
The real reason. It can be anything, but I’m really interested in it.

Personal preference of combat style. Just like in any game players like the freedom to choose what they like and not be considered inferior for it. In fighting games some players like Grapplers, some like Rushdown fighters and some like Zoners, yet all of those playstyles are considered valid. Here we have a single playstyle that’s considered valid and a multitude that work but server no practical purpose in PvE.
This is a game that is supposed to promote creativity and personal preference in it’s combat. Is it right for over half the game’s combat options to be so weak they’re considered by some unviable?

Personal preference falls under role play.

Ah.
Right.
I must have missed the fine print on the game packaging when I purchased this game. This game is only meant for players who enjoy being Meta pawns. Do not purchase if you choose to play how you want in “Open World” content. Again, this game isn’t actually for you – its for meta players only. All others get the kitten out.

’Cause you know some of those fine print lines are just so well hidden.

I don’t know what frothing at the meta has anything to do with what I just said, I’m just saying that if you want a ranged play style then you’re just role playing as a ranged dps since there’s not any practical reason to chill in the back line besides your preference, i.e desire to role play. Vent your irrational meta hatred elsewhere thank you.

Bezagron.7352:

Lamir.6702:

No. People do not need to spend 1000g+ on another full set of ascended weapons/armor (up to 2000g+ if you spend on infusions) to get “optimal” stats.

Create variety through skills/traits, not through stats on gear.

What we need is harder dungeons, not changes that make them 3x easier like what happened with ferocity and low-level dungeons.

Just a note to on gear, passive stats and builds. Why should builds in PvE be locked to one gear set? As passive stats are a large part of what helps your build to perform. This is a problem with build diversity and locks you into designing content only for these gear choices as a large part of your passive stats are locked to gear choice. This aspect doesn’t really come into play for this discussion other then the difficulties it imparts to swapping builds in PvE.

My personal preference is to allow us to unlock all passive stat combinations, sigils, runes & infusions to make it very easy to swap builds in WvW & PvE (Just like in sPvP). But this will have a massive effect on the economy of GW2 as with out these lock passive on gear what other value to they have (Cosmetics have become unlocks). If we go this way like cosmetics what will we have to trade and sell. Now I still want this but what other reason could be created that would still have players trading and sell these items?

PvE builds are not locked to one gear set. You can run any gear stat in your build. Even for optimised builds there isn’t just one gear stat, or one rune, or one infusion type or one sigil, there’s variety even at the highest level.

IllegalChocolate.6938:

Stooperdale.3560:

Dub.1273:

The ironic part about it is that guang truly thinks warriors have very low survivability.

Warriors on their own aren’t so great. They need to know to play. But warriors with some guardian support? Different matter entirely.

I’d have to disagree(about the not being so great on their own part).

I mean yes meta axe you might have some trouble with some bleed stacks but using something like hambow is not only highly self sustaining, its got CC and can synergize well with phalanx strength regardless of what stat archetype you choose.

You might not deal as much sustained damage in a corner strat but if people are running around like headless chickens you can certainly deliver group support and CC with hambow.

It sounds crazy I know but I’ve 3 manned that entire bandit room in CM with the two huge groups charging in without corner stacking them with a condi mesmer and a bunker engie, with me doing hambow, I think that alone should speak of something.

I … uh …

Dual.8953:

RedStar.4218:

Aside from roleplay reasons, why do you want to play with a ranged weapon ?

I’m honestly asking this question. And I don’t want to hear bullkitten like “because it’s what is told in the description” or “well I don’t. But if I did …”
The real reason. It can be anything, but I’m really interested in it.

Personal preference of combat style. Just like in any game players like the freedom to choose what they like and not be considered inferior for it. In fighting games some players like Grapplers, some like Rushdown fighters and some like Zoners, yet all of those playstyles are considered valid. Here we have a single playstyle that’s considered valid and a multitude that work but server no practical purpose in PvE.
This is a game that is supposed to promote creativity and personal preference in it’s combat. Is it right for over half the game’s combat options to be so weak they’re considered by some unviable?

Personal preference falls under role play.

You conveniently ignore how it says a ranger can adapt to any situation.

The spider does only have two attacks. And while reflection was still a thing, people didn’t realized how much damage her AoE does.

you could never reflect her attacks anyway

Mossman will use his attacks also against ranged targets, the only thing ranged fighters wont see is that mossman can cleave.

Or … you just drop a reflect, keep him crippled and then kite him ad infinitum. Or, you just bug him underwater and afk him. Not saying I approve of the latter, I either leave groups trying to do that or purposely try to unbug him.

Bloomhunger is more difficult in melee? With reflects and so on?

IIRC the pug strat used to be sit at 1500 range, go afk and the reflect class would just put a reflect up every now and then. People didn’t understand what attacks were reflectable, dodgeable, blockable or that before the clearer AOEs it was safer to stand behind him while he did his agony attack as it helped you see AOE better.

Also, many people who always meleed Subject Alpha in CoE didn’t even know that there are two differen’t versions of his ice attack. Or that his earth attack does only focus one player and can be avoided by everyone else.

Anyone who has done COE and actually paid any attention would notice that the teeth of mordremoth attack was a targeted cone AOE attack. Anyone who doesn’t pay attention, either range or melee wouldn’t know that.

You get to learn every boss encounter, just as a ranged fighter, you usually don’t want the enemy to get in melee range to you, so you keep your distance. Which means that they wont see the melee attacks of Lupicus but they will see his ranged attacks instead. So I don’t know what you’re trying to prove here but most bosses will stay the same at range. At range you just have more space to avoid certain attacks while players who melee either dodge or utilize reflects and stuff.

If you know a boss’ mechanics but refuse to go in to melee range you’re either being stubborn (“play how I want” falls under this category) or roleplaying as ranged DPS. Once you know a boss’ mechanics there is no practical reason to chill at range. My experience has been that people ranging don’t understand a boss’ mechanics. Belka is the #1 example of this, she has 5 seconds of projectile reflection and 7 seconds without it, and I’ve seen guardians with scepters suicide themselves on it. I’ve seen people against Alphard range from behind some rubble so the terrain would prevent them from being pulled rather than just putting up a reflect. People who range don’t bother learning mechanics on the whole.

meeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee. !!!!

They don’t. If you get a ranged weapon versus spider queen you just have to step to the side every now and then to avoid the poison. People try to afk range mossman. People used to afk range bloomhunger. People range maw tentacles. People range lupicus. Doing this requires basically zero understanding of the boss mechanics besides just trying to avoid red circles. They don’t know what the boss attacks do or why they do them besides that they hurt.

everything looks bad on charr

Azhure.1857:

Fyrebrand.4859:

I can see the problems that come out of removing the distance limits on boons, but I would still greatly like to see encounters in dungeons where being a ranged character is actually beneficial in some way. Too many bosses in this game play like “MMORPG bosses,” rather than “videogame bosses.” More bosses should do something other than just stand there and swipe at whomever is closest. They should be more mobile, and more resistant to being kited into a corner and stacked on by burst damage. Think of cool bosses in old-school games — they would teleport to different places, leap around the room, shoot stuff at you from afar that you have to dodge, charge at you, and make you navigate the environment in order to get at a good place to hit them for a few moments.

Master Ranger Nente in AC Story Mode was pretty good for this. He would teleport to different places, and sometimes appear on that central platform that was not easy to get to for melee, but ranged damage could still hit him with no problems.

I’m not saying every fight should be a major pain for melee either, but at least bring some character, variety, and mobility to future bosses, please! Make it so the whole party can’t just stack in one spot the entire fight; while things are momentarily hectic for melee then the ranged people can still shoot while moving around. This also gives added value to condition damage, which also seems to be undervalued in PvE.

All things being equal, ranged damage doesn’t have to be on par with melee during “stable” moments where you can just wail on the boss — but a ranged-focused player should still have a role in a party. It’s like how single-target is good for some situations, and AoE is good for others. There should be a time and a place for everything. Unfortunately, I think it is to GW2’s detriment that there is no time nor place for ranged attacks, at least in dungeons.

I agree with the boss mechanic needing more depth and variety.
One of my favorite bosses is a simple Champ Abomination. I love watching it charge through a crowd, usually downing a dozen or more people. It makes me smile every time and actually keeps me on my toes. I also can’t help but cheer for the champion in a way, because its main victims are those players that are so set in a “melee or bust” mentality. The argument has been made that melee is just better because ranged can’t compare on a DPS level. Well neither does standing in front of a charging rhino on steroids, getting downed, and throwing dirt at said rhino. Another point is made that melee is more effective because of increased risk. Debatable. But I get what you’re saying, stupidity is risky.

I know this thread is primarily about applied boon distance. Just wanted to throw my two cents in there concerning better boss mechanics. Would LOVE for them to be more than giant hp pools.

The reason people get downed to the charge is because people can’t dodge and the frenzy stacks build up. If you never let many build up you can melee it easily. Linky: http://youtu.be/_PasfQD2t_c

funkylovemonkey.3097:

For me, the underlying frustration of the Ranger class is I wish it were more useful, like it was in GW1. I have fond memories going in Barrage groups through Urgoz, for instance. In general I like a ranged profession. But GW2 forces me into melee to be effective. I have ten characters across every profession, but it seems like if I want to experience higher level content I need to rely on my warriors and guardians. This is fine, to an extent, but at a certain point I have to wonder why Anet even bothers with other professions at all? And quite honestly, I don’t find playing Guardian or Warrior particularly interesting or challenging, and I don’t really see the mechanic of stacking a strategy that really deserves defending. It’s obviously the meta for most higher level content, but its also boring as hell. Even the abominable trinity is more interesting, and I hate trinity gameplay. The problem with the Ranger and the contradictions within the class are emblematic of a larger problem with the game. GW1 had some amazing class synergies, depending on the period of its life, GW2 so far has had just one.

I’ve soloed arah on warrior, guardian, Mesmer, ele, thief. Mesmers are like, a trash tier class so it’s not like you even need a good class to perform high level content. I think I have guildies who have soloed it on ranger too. If you want to be optimal, groups should be stacking as many elementalists as possible, the dps they can output can in some cases be superior to the buffs provided by a warrior with banners, and then most likely you want a defensive support class like guardian so that the 3/4 eles can burst bosses uninterrupted. In regards to ranged versus melee, you can use scepter on guardian or staff on ele (at <600 range, mind you, eles have a trait which gives them a damage modifier below 600) and still output very high dps.

I like playing PvP when I want my fix of playing against reactive enemies. If I want something which actually feels challenging ill practice my ele lupicus solo or maybe alphard. I don’t see why just because some people are willing to stomach the same four maps over and over again and bunker points they should be able to earn legendaries while there has been no pve equivalent.

being able to evade 8 times in a row is balanced what are you talking about

Ashen.2907:

maha.7902:

Every class is melee based except engineer. I also would like examples of using the environment to bypass mechanics. The point is, the game pushes melee play with the limited boon range and higher damage, I don’t see why players chilling in the back line should be rewarded in any way when they’re at no risk.

1) As you said, melee already has higher damage so extending boon range would not deprive melee of having an advantage for being close to the mobs.

2) One is not at, “no risk,” when in the back line.

Aggro the champion orrian warrior in arah, range it. Next time around, melee it. Range is literally brain afk, it’s not even remotely challenging. This is nothing to do with depriving melee of advantages, it’s to do with not rewarding inefficient play styles.

In my past few months pugging I have never seen a hammer guard or fire fields, or if they were they were never blasted. And I’ll say it again – you can range. Feel free to range. Just don’t expect to be efficient.

The reason PvP streams gather more audiences is because anet throw free legendaries and precursors at PvP while pve has zero publicity. We drew 1500 viewers without free precursor giveaways and barely any publicity – so the interest is absolutely there. Also, “hot join pond” are you for —--ing real?

Then don’t melee. Just don’t expect to be efficient. You can range in dungeons just fine. And maybe I’ve been in different pugs than you but I rarely see fire fields or hammer guardians, and when I run with guild meta groups we don’t have a hammer guard in dungeons either, so I don’t know what meta you’re looking at.

The person meleeing and dying is always better since at least they’re trying to learn the fights. I made an ele, leveled them within like 3 hours, and immediately went full glass cannon. Going from playing classes like Mesmer and warrior meant I’ve died and I need to learn the limits of my class but I can guarantee you I’ve done more dps than the groups I’ve joined – I did arah story, and when I died the bloated creeper actually started out healing the four other players in the party. Once they got me back up I was able to finish the fight with them. Like I honestly don’t think you realise how large the difference is between melee and ranged dps. You can already play ranged anyway, just don’t expect it to be even close to optimal.

I watched ToL NA and mostly do tpvp when I actually play it, and I found our dungeon tourney 10000x more interesting to watch than plebs vs plebs bunkering on points all day.

Every class is melee based except engineer. I also would like examples of using the environment to bypass mechanics. The point is, the game pushes melee play with the limited boon range and higher damage, I don’t see why players chilling in the back line should be rewarded in any way when they’re at no risk.

Why should you be able to chill out at 1500 range and get as many boons as everyone else up in the boss’ face in melee? You’re at no risk, they are, you don’t deserve to receive any of their boons. You’re taking ‘play how you want’ out of context just like everyone else in this forum, anet haven’t said anything about how you should be allowed to chill at max range and be rewarded for afk pewpewing bosses.

Iris Ng.9845:

If anything, I really look forward to seeing Team Mist represents most of the EU All-Star Team. They are beastly and have that royal flair of true elitists. Helseth and Sizer both hold my interest (and vote).

I don’t find watching little asuras going afk on points with bunker builds that interesting tbh

If you lock utilities then we will just make sure we have certain necessary utilities which work for the fights in the instance. For example in arah p3 a guard may go wall, shield of the avenger and purging flames. You need purging for cleanses versus the hunter/crusher and wraith lord, wall of reflect versus hunter/crusher, magecrusher and lupicus and shield of the avenger for magecrusher. You lose stand your ground for lupicus but either an ember can take the grub or the guard can and renewed focus to prevent being knocked down. For wraith lord you miss out on retreat to block an auto attack but it doesn’t require you to take a defensive setup. If you locked utilities through a full set of fractals I’m sure wall, stand your ground and purging flames or maybe retreat would be safe utilities to take to cover all fights. Defensive builds will never be used at a high level and there’s no reason they should be.

funkylovemonkey.3097:

I agree something has to be done. Anet has made longbow skills most effective at the 1000-1500 range, and yet the boons that help the group have a shorter range. Spotter is only 600, spirits are only 1000. Which means its impossible for Rangers to maximize their effectiveness in a group, even if they had better pet control/higher dps, because they have to chose between their most effective dps and sharing their boons (speaking entirely of ranged, of course, this isn’t an issue in melee).

If this is for dungeons and a ranger wants to be ‘maximizing their effectiveness in groups’ they should not be using a bow regardless.

Sw/wh or Sw/Axe and Gs are what should be used for ‘most effective dps’. In which case they would be, as you say, in melee range so it wouldn’t be a big deal.

-GMB

abomally.2694:

Funny – because I can play the game just fine without any lag (including Dry Top) and my PC is pretty old. That must mean it’s a game server problem.

Another assumption on your part.

I never actually said it was a game server issue, only that people shouldn’t assume it’s a third party issue and there’s still the possibility it’s anet side.

-GMB