I love when folks post trying to tell us a list of broken or “wrong” issues with something, when the rest of the player base is using it successfully. Nothing is wrong with the rifle. Every day someone makes post attempting to get a weapon, skill, or utility changed to match how they want it for their specific play style.
Hip shot is a great animation. Leave it alone.
If you’re going to tell me I’m wrong can you at least give reasons, it’s what forums are for: to discuss.
Maybe I am just playing engineer wrong and the rest of the playerbase is much better than myself? If so perhaps you should tell me how the rifle can be used as a main weapon in PvE over grenades in a power based build.
Hip fire is great to you, quite a few people disagree with you however.
Not exactly, you just have to be trained properly and be used to using the firearm in such a manner, Is it regular and ordinary? not at all, and very few people would actually find vaule in the skill, but engineer is all about using odd tactics hence the rifle moves. lol
@barrel comment, this is true, but I guess its cause we just shoot .22 LR when I shoot, and so shotguns always seem larger, but then again, there are plenty of rifles like that too.
Yeah fair enough its fantasy and lots of leeway of silliness is allowed.
I was looking forward to getting a legendary on my engineer though, had the map completed and enough gold saved to buy a precurser.
Then I looked at the legendaries. The pistol just looks bad and the rifle looks awesome except for the fact its rather large, has a scope and a silencer.
Hipfiring that thing pushes the boundaries of silly wayyyy too far.
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Ok, are we talking about PvP or PvE here?
If we are talking about PvE then any dps engineer WILL be using grenades because it does better damage in every imaginable situation, these engineers will only be swapping to rifle to blunderbus or maybe to knockback.
Since we’re talking about PvE the slow moving projectiles are irrelevant because mobs are either stationary or following a predictable path, yes some will miss but not enough to offset the massive dps gain from using grenades over rifles.
As for burst, grenades are comparable to rifle.
Yes, rifles do have control, that’s why I am saying its used to supplement to main weapon in this case (grenades)
If you don’t have grenades in your PvE DPS build it isn’t a very good DPS build.
@ the comparison between engi and warrior rifle, the auto attack is similar yes, however iirc every warrior rifle ability is pure damage, so as for them dishing out equal damage once you factor in abilities just no.
If we’re talking about PvP its a different story entirely because control is far more important than DPS generally.
Hipfiring looks stupid? Hip firing is a tactic used in real life when in less optimal situations, which the engineer is always in. The engineer may seem “comical” but thats because he is a nade chuckin, flamethrowerin shotgun using Combat engineer, The engineer is more at home in trenchs then open warfare, Because he is in the back lines using artillery such as morters, rather then upfront damage like the warrior.
Hip firing a shotgun or rifle irl is extremely rare and would hardly call it a tactic. It is extremely rare because it is innacurate and will likely hurt you, especially if you do it repeatedly.
Whether or not you think it looks stupid is up to the individual but please for the love of god don’t try to argue realism in favor of hip firing.
if you guys wanna do direct damage at 1200 range, please, play a warrior. I LOVE the way the rifle works for engineer, and shotguns/rifles are not much diffrent from weapons perspectives. A shotgun is not a rifle for one simple fact. The barrel of a shotgun does not contain rifling, so its for the most part, just a rifle with a larger barrel, and no rifling. To make an entirely diffrent kit just so you guys can play soldier is silly.
We can do direct damage at 1200 range, it’s called grenade, kinda sucks for moving targets though. I would settle for being able to do good damage at close range on rifle.
@the 5 comparison, yeah, jumpshot is lacking animation wise, that sucks, if they fixed the animation it would be SO GOOD. and I dont think you understand the power that is flamethrower 5, it can be used at anytime since it has no frames….
Yeah flamethrower 5 is alright, I just wish it was a field or something. As for jump shot, if they made it a viable damage ability I would be ecstatic, if they made rifle into a main weapon rather than what is essentially another kit with stats I would also be happy.
I differentiate kits and main weapons on the assumption that kits are designed to supplement your main weapon, not replace it.
And yes, I’m aware of the mechanical differences between rifles and shotguns, rifles are rifled so they can shoot further, I don’t know why you think shotguns normally have larger barrels than rifles though: they don’t.
The problem I see with rifle is two fold:
1) Hip firing rifles looks stupid as kitten.
2) It lacks the damage a main weapon should have and makes power based builds more reliant on kits for damage than their main weapon.
Now let’s compare the rifle to the flamethrower, in this comparison I will be ignoring the buggy nature of flamethrower skills and how it doesn’t scale well at all.
Skill #1: Not much to say here, however flamethrower’s range is more in line with the effective range of the class outside of grenades.
Skill #2: Rifles is a utility immobilize, and a good one at that, flamethrower is a short range direct damage AE nuke.
Skill #3: The only real effective damage skill aside from autoattack rifle has, reliant on very close range, flamethrower has utility knockback.
Skill #4: Rifle has knockback that’s worse than the flamethrower one because it is not cone AoE. Flamethrower has utility flame field and small damage.
Skill #5: Rifle has a clunky gap closer that can’t really be effectively used for damage on any moving target and is an effective 1s stun on yourself but other than that is ok, flamethrower has a one time pbae blind; both of these skills are subpar.
So, rifle and flamethrower both has one solid damage skill (blunderbuss and flame blast)
the only real difference between these weapons is the flamethrower auto attack operates at a effective range that synergises with the rest of the engi abilities and has one more utility ability.
The point of this is the rifle is too much of a utility weapon to be considered a main weapon in my eyes, any power based build that wants to do damage uses grenades as their main weapons for pretty much every range.
Compare this to pistols, not going to run through an in depth comparison but for any build that uses condition damage will be using their pistol(s) as their main weapon due to the damage it has and any kits they might have as utility to supplement their main weapon, which is the way I felt the system should be designed.
Making rifle skills more like warriors would solve my issues with the weapon, but is not a change I would like implemented because honestly, warrior rifle skills are boring.
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no downside to losing, nothing to gain as far as character or guild progression goes.
of course its dwindling.
Yeah I’ve used a roaming rifle/discharge burst build with the flamethrower for extra toolskill and knockback to great success.
Playing either way is loads of fun.
Not really sure if I would like rifle skills similar to that of a warrior as they seem rather bland like the rest of the class.
Saying that though I wouldn’t mind rifle skills feeling more like your using a rifle.
Flamethrower is only kinda bad at the moment because you can’t use the 3-2 combo without it bugging out 90% of the time. Kit scaling is an issue but its a pretty hot topic here and I’m sure the devs are aware of it.
Rifle has a lot of utility skills and as such relies on kits a lot for its damage, I wouldn’t recommend a rifle/elixir build.
Pistol/elixir works fine though.
I’m not sure how many times this needs to be said, but let’s try again:
It’s not a bug, it doesn’t have to be “fixed”. It’s exactly how it’s intended.
If it did apply with weapon kits then the already-powerful Engineer class would be overpowered. Stop spending time complaining on the forums and spend more time getting better at using a very powerful class. If you don’t want to spend that time, go make a Warrior.
Why are you assuming we don’t know how to play engineer?
Why do you feel as though engineers are OP in SPvP?
Why did ArenaNet say they were working on a fix if it is intended?
Your post is so full of stupid it makes my head hurt.
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How do we know that the kits are not balanced around not having these stats? If they are then why does it matter?
Because kits are a fundamental part of engineer play, much like elementalist elements. Having such a feature ignore weapon stats and damage means our class is inherently worse at scaling than any other class in the game.
Fact: Engineers do not do “3x” the damage of most other classes (nor weapons). Grenades are mostly even with some specs, and are outdamaged by several (for example by a good Mesmer build, which can do about 20% more dps than a grenade spammer with the same stats can put out on a static target)
I sure as hell hope not, out of all of my 80s my mesmer does by far the least dps, it does quite literally half or less the damage my thief does. Yeah yeah thieves OP but still holy kitten, mesmers are not a good dps class and if we are worse? god kitten
Ability to hide backpack at least please.
SPvP I find engineers loads of fun to play and very effective, either with a roaming rifle burst build or a bunker p/s build.
Loving this class in SPvP.
Nobody is saying turrets are useless, people are saying turrets are far from optimal and only viable under specific circumstances, I do use them just fyi, just not for the majority of activities.
I don’t know how this implementation made it through beta.
No warriors and eles dont “suffer” in the same way. It’s not a core class skill for them, it’s not designed to replace weapon swapping. Yes I will admit ele summoned weapons need some work but they aren’t required for ele play and you rarely see ele’s even using their summoned weapons.
As for warriors, please, if you ever see a warrior beating something down with his banner he’s either trolling or a noob. Banners are for buffs, not for fighting.
This class isn’t under powered it is just in need of some serious polish.
There are 5 threads for a reason, this is a serious issue that needs to be addressed.
And like someone else has said, I have not seen ANet address this recently.
I’m fine with being a primarily close ranged class, sure I would like a long ranged dps weapon but its not a priority at all. Yeah grenades are good in PvE and sieges but they are pretty bad in all other circumstances, most notably open field WvW.
My main problem is it looks stupid beyond belief to hipfire a rifle (or shotgun for that matter). Also it seems to be Anet can’t make up their mind whether its a rifle or a shotgun, its a shotgun why do the shots penetrate, why does it have a trait that makes it one of the longest range weapons in the game, i mean seriously now I can auto attack at 1500 range? Sweet.
Either make it a proper shotgun or make it a rifle and give us a shotgun kit, idc which.
This is a pretty serious bug that needs to be addressed.
If i want a viable ranged option play another class? cool feedback.
edit: Yes grenades are wonderful against stationary targets ie pve and sieges but anything else? No
Also, who says rifle implementation has to be boring like warrior?
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i would love to see a shotgun added…. maybe rework the rifle abilities, keep #2-#5 for the shotgun, but id like to see the auto-attack turn into a high damage bleed front cone attack, much like guardian staff#1…
eh????
I agree because at the moment the rifle is a hybrid rifle/shotgun. Hip fire has rifle range but the rest of the skills are shotgun range.
I would like to see the auto attack reflect that of a shotgun.
Saying that though, I am really not a fan of #5, it might be due to the fact I live in aus and have a higher ping than normal but this skill feels extremely clunky. Its borderline useless in PvP because of how easy it is to dodge due to the delayed damage and also because its an effective 1s stun on you.
Legendary Kits
In this case, I’d prefer an upgraded version of current kits. Each kit shall have a legendary version, in which some kit skills may use higher scaling coefficients; some may yield more stacks, some more hits, some longer duration, etc. Or perhaps there is an advanced refinement effect when swapping. This can be more efficient and direct than to adjust the stats.
Why not just have kits scale with weapon and have skins you can apply to your kits much in the same way you would a normal weapon?
The more I read this, the more I start to agree. I LOVE my rifle skills as they are, but they really don’t fit the look (at least on most of the rifles they don’t). Here’s my idea to incorporate yours. Shotgun is now a kit (with a kitten looking shotgun!) Rifle is now a sniper kit. It’s got 1500 range traited, one of the skills allows you to stealth for up to 15 seconds if you are /not/ moving. Firing the weapon doesn’t unstealth you, but does make you half-visible for about half a second. This is the #5 skill and has a 45 second cooldown (non-reducable for balance). Imagine the other skills as you want, but I think this would be a unique way to bring both range and utility into the class in weapon form.
Oh god this sounds sexy, I like your suggestion.
I would be happy with a viable ranged weapon and a rifle that behaves like a rifle. But kitten this would be going above and beyond the requirements.
edit: Oh, having turrets scale to gear as well would be real nice, they are a novelty at the moment.
General improvement to the whole turret/toolkit synergy. I don’t feel this is anything like as important as kits scaling or rifles being rifles though.
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Should also post this on suggestion forums imo.
Very good write-up OP.
This in particular.
That WvWvW is supposed to be the actual end game content but it is neither competetive nor motivating at all.
This game seriously needs some form of benefit for winning WvW.
I hope Anet pays more attention and allocate more resources to WvW. So far there is a lack of dev posts on WvW changes.
As do I, some form of idea on where they want to take this game would be really nice.
What I don’t like about the RP idea as outlined above is that raw damage output decides how much credit you get.
I’m playing a support build that is able to stall a good number of players or to output a lot of AoE healing, and I get basically nothing for it. Except repair costs.
Currently you don’t get badges in wvw for supporting either, your only option is to go for outputting damage, damage, damage.
The repair cost that feel insulting paired with the lack of rewards for playing a support character is basically what makes me quit WvW an hour sooner than I’d like to, each day I play.
edit: sorry read OP again and can see the misinformation
DAoC had classes that literally had 0 offensive output, none, nothing. Yet there were still r12/13s of this class?
How?
Simple, encouraging group play, the ammount of RP you get is determined by the ammount of damage your group does to the target.
This has the added benefit of encouraging group play, something that WvW seriously lacks. Don’t mistake group play for zerg play here.
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As unbalancing this would probably be, I’d like to see a racial kit: more than any other profession would engineers be influenced by their upbringing. The art of shooting things, hitting things and magic, to a lesser extent, are fairly universal With the way things are, engineer technology feels predominantly Charr in style.
Admittedly, this may because I get to see all the sparkly technology whenever I go home to Rata Sum, and all the turrets I drop look incredibly clunky…
Hrm, maybe racial graphics for turrets would be nice. Their own kits though would be a pain to balance.
It depends. Surviving in zerg vs zerg combat is more about your positioning than your gear. If you get focused in a large fight you’re going to die. Zerker gear is favored here in my opinion (as are grenades with their 1500 range and aoe but they aren’t required as traited rifle has 1200 range just like most other professions). If you’re going to be roaming around more solo/small group you may want to mix in more toughness and vitality.
1200 range auto attack sweet. Pity its abilities have an effective range of like 500.
Traited rifles range perk is pretty much a waste.
more than you might think, considering I am a college student and thus can play at those “odd hours”
I am not inherently against title tracking system so long as it is done right. that means that it encourages you to play the objective and do whats best for the server to win. ad that’s the rub, because that is such a nebulous concept, what it entails is so complex and dynamic, that a simple stat could never encompass it. you are complaining about people going to EB for the jumping puzzle. I would have the same issue with people who were on to farm RR.
As it stands at the moment, servers have nothing to lose if they get smashed in WvW so I fail to see how it is relevant, however if something worth fighting for was implemented then still, killing people from other servers is good for your server, if you are “farming” their server you have already won.
Some people would like their WvW to contain PvP aside from zerg vs zerg or PvD, this simple stat accomplishes that and much more.
There are titles based on every PvE action, and most of the titles in WvW are PvE related. The only title purely based on kills is the first one and it caps out after 5,000 kills and it’s one title.
I’m not sticking around for years killing dolyak’s just to earn a ‘Yakslapper’ title, and neither will most people who have come here for RvR. They’re cutesy titles that are based on trivial PvE actions. Why would it be bad to want a ranking/tracking system for WvW?
I’m sorry, assaulting stonemist is a ‘trivial PvE action’? and if all you care about is th kills, I’m not sure if I want you an your RvR fans. killing people is incidental to what WVW is about. WVW is about taking and holding objectives.
I agree with you, but he has a point, most WvW titles are about trivial PvE stuff, killing Dolyak’s etc.
The keep example doesn’t apply because odds are people will be defending the keep, but still, achievements shouldn’t be awarded for PvD, do you agree with this?
If you don’t want RvR people in this game this game will be dead. This was marketed as a PvP game and its PvE content or its SPvP content will not give it lasting appeal.
uh actually there are multiple titles. If you look at the WVW acheivment page, the place where there is a number there is a crown, which signifies a title. there are titles for attacking/defending specific types of objective, using supply, and hunting/protecting dolyaks.
as for how visible they should be, I don’t actually have an opinion on that.
I don’t think you understand what the person you are quoting is trying to say at all.
but if the progression curve is infinite, then eventually power creep will make it mandatory. and mandatory grind is something areanet was specifically against.
This discussion was had in the last thread too, this was marketed as a PvP MMO no? If PvP becomes a grind this game is dead already. Which it already is for a lot of people just tagging people in zergs for badges.
I would wager people that are bashing the RP system have never actually played a PvP MMO.
for those asking for more progression:
if you are not willing to stick around now because there is no progression, then why would you stick around after you complete the progression? after all, when you complete it, there will be no more progression again
It is infinite, it is more of a form of ladder than anything else anyway, which guilds or individuals are doing best.
And good players who have amassed their PvP traits will be nigh-unkillable to those just coming in. PvP traits/stats are definitely not the way to go (as per WoW’s example, PvP-only stat makes newcomers suffer). They would only discourage inexperienced players from joining in which would be the opposite of increasing longevity.
On communication/knowing who you’re fighting: the current setup is ideal.
This goes to show my opening statement.
You think the current setup for knowing who you are fighting against, there is no indication of how long your opponents have been PvPing for and its all a massive ZvZ or PvD fight anyway, does it really matter who you are up against?
A good RP implementation does not make top tier players gods or w/e you think. Coming from WoW as an example I can understand your trepidation towards such an idea but understand this, WoW did PvP horribly.
If your opinion bordered fact in any shape or form, then ANet wouldn’t have even considered pulling Asura out of thin air, but instead would have used a pre-created race instead.
My opinion does border on fact, dragons are renowned for hoarding treasure (shinies) and the Skritt sole purpose in life is to collect shinies. Killing dragons would be natural to them.
Do you work for arenanet? No? You don’t know what they have planned? They feel awkward? How so? How is your opinion based on logic whatsoever.
As I said, Asura irl.
Therefore my opinion is far superior to yours because it follows the general logic of what ANet is actually doing rather than following a make-believe thought of what I think ANet should be doing, or what I expect them to do in the future.
No, your logic is as broken as your friendships are.
Because skritt are what the asura should have been.
Nobody likes the asura, hell even asura don’t like other asura.
The mad king even makes jokes about the asura having no friends, I honestly don’t think he’s mad.
The skritt rallying to kill dragons makes more sense than any other race.
The Pact should be 90% skritt and the other 10% being a miscellaneous mix of other races, not including asura because skritt hate those malformed rodents.
Well, I’ll indulge your trolling attempts only to make you sound like a complete fool. I’m bored and would rather reply to your rhetoric than watch Gangman Style parodies on YouTube. Here it goes…
First off, nothing you’ve said holds any water, let alone a majority opinion position. No one is going to agree with you at all in your entire point. Perhaps in some points, but not collectively. Collectively you sound like a kid who’s more interested in expressing how advanced his mental condition is rather than intellectualizing with or upon the topic at hand.
Secondly, ascetically Skritt are no where near as pleasing to the eyes as the Asura are. I hate the way Asura look, and even I can come to that logic. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder, as they say. However, comparing Skritt to Asura is like comparing Nikki Manaj’s “Bass” “song” to Mozart’s Requiem.
Third and lastly, just because you have an opinion doesn’t make you right. People often say that opinions can’t be wrong, but most often opinions are wrong. In this case, no one here would possibly agree with you on a large scale, and therefore you should give up.
TL;DR: your opinion sucks. Go away.
You are entitled to your opinion too.
Your opinion is wrong.
edit: You are like an asura irl, you think you’re smart but you aren’t really. Your attempts at acting intelligent fall flat and nobody likes you; everyone just thinks your a stupid poser.
You are also a midget with a pot belly.
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Generally someone in power/prec/crit damage gear will always do far more damage than someone with condition damage due to the fact that once you get that trinity damage scaling is no longer linear.
Condition damage has two benefits though
1) It ignores toughness.
2) It only takes up one stat slot.
So in short, if you want raw damage don’t ever build condition damage. If you want high utility and/or survivability condition damage is normally a better choice.
No auto attack for grenades because they are an AoE skill.
However what would be nice would be repeated key registers if you held the key down.
I had a quite decent topic abaut this whole thing, araund 10k view’s. And the ideas ware good, how to implement something that lets Enginers use a more “ranged” rifle , but still keep the current one to.
Things like : Sniper kit and , switching the weapon switches it to the same weapon but with different skillset ( the engineer mods the weapon) and things like that, but in the end it was closed down because some moron started to argue and troll.
I still dont see a reson, why cant Enginers get an option to play “long range direct dd” with there main weapon. I am sure the 80% of Engineers (or would to be enginers) hate shields, or pistols to lack of dual shoot. Or kits at all, since Weapons skins look totally mind blowing, and rifle is the only item that can be really altered and seen. So they use mostly ONLY that.
Besides the fact that Anet Clearl states that Enginer is Long range intended class, with support and flexibility. …
But in fact i had to reroll to warr, to play rifler class.
I wish I read this. Kinda sad you had to reroll war to use a rifle.
This class is far from long range, its only long range option is grenades and that is only really useful for WvW zergs and PvE.
The vast majority of the time this class spends in close range because thats where almost all of our abilities and synergies are.
Do I have a problem with this?
No not really.
Would I like an option for ranged combat aside from grenade spam?
Yes please.
Do I think that hip firing a rifle or even a shotgun looks kitten
Yes.
Don’t see why not, I like backpack personally but can see why some wouldn’t. Either way a toggle would be fine for everyone, no idea why it isn’t implemented.
I would like engineers with rifles first.
There are plenty of better races out there to suggest. Skritt are not one of them. A few good ones to name:
-Tengu
-Kodan
-Hylek (the frog ones, not the dolphin ones)Why anyone would want to play a race of rats when we already have a playable race of rats (Asura) is beyond me.
Because skritt are what the asura should have been.
Nobody likes the asura, hell even asura don’t like other asura.
The mad king even makes jokes about the asura having no friends, I honestly don’t think he’s mad.
The skritt rallying to kill dragons makes more sense than any other race.
The Pact should be 90% skritt and the other 10% being a miscellaneous mix of other races, not including asura because skritt hate those malformed rodents.
Oh man I can see it now. "Thank you almighty Skritt commander for saving the world of Tyria from the Elder Dragons. mutters to his subordinate Seriously, we relied on Skritt to save us? Dwyana help us all.
Aren’t dragons supposed to have shinies? If there was a reason to unite the skritt race into genocide of another species this would probably be it.
Good post, a lot of these popping up.
Hope arenanet takes notice.
Yes, WvW needs some serious improvements. a RPesque implementation is exactly what this game needs.
I would like to see kit’s scale with weapons.
Reason: We use our kits more often than weapons in most cases and having it not scale with weapon is incredibly stupid and makes our class inherently worse at scaling than others.
I would like to see a viable long ranged weapon aside from grenade. Being able to use a rifle as a rifle would be nice for example, would much rather a shotgun kit get added to the game with the current rifle abilities and the current rifle abilities to be retooled to resemble a rifle.
Reason: Mostly gameplay related I feel neutered at range and I do far more damage at close range because that’s where most kits synergise the best with your main weapon. Thematically, hip firing the legendary rifle looks all kinds of stupid.
Skritt > Asura. If there was any zone that was dedicated to helping the skritt experiment and kill Asura I would replay it over and over again.
And yes if skritt were playable I would definitely make one.
Let me clarify to that post, if this game wants to be a mediocre PvP MMO with a few months appeal and people coming back for expansions then leaving again a few months later because they get bored.
Sure, implement gear based carrot on a stick WvW.
If this game wants a PvP community that lasts for years? No it won’t cut it.
I’d like to see better drops in WvW.
We are after a little more depth to WvW than more drops.
Like titles that translate into ego fluff?
The key to making WvW viable in the long term is to make the carrot mean something in PvE as well as WvW.Easiest way to do this (I hate to say it) is the gear treadmill.
Make Mist Walker armor wearable in PvE, give WvW exotic sets that can only be earned there…legendary runes and sigils too. Stuff that actually makes the lvl 80 PvEers want to get on that treadmill.
Easiest yes I agree, but it still doesn’t give it longevity.
PvP MMO’s would be stupid to mimic WoW’s PvP.
I’m one of the people who doesn’t actually hate WoW but PvP was something it did not do well.
Gear grind and giving the server something to lose if they get defeated in WvW would be viable for longevity but far from optimal.
I’d like to see better drops in WvW.
We are after a little more depth to WvW than more drops.