Guild Wars 2

FaRectification.5678:

Comparing this game to Diablo 3, is like comparing Jesus to Satan, now please be quiet and be more objective. Man, I think I’m done reading these forums.

They both want to come and obliterate the human race?

Duskmelt.9834:

nofo.8469:

Duskmelt.9834:

You’re actually just in time for the Wintersday celebration! The game is NOT dying, it’s actually getting a lot of consistent support from Arenanet. This forum is full of whiners and naysayers. It’s ridiculous really.

This forum is full of whiners and naysayers for a reason.

Game forums are normally pretty bad but the only one that I can think of that compares to this is Diablo 3.

But yes, if you would prefer to play a game where the company spends all their resources on holiday celebrations instead of the actual game then this game is awesome.

Each monthly 1 GB worth of content update IS part of the game, holiday or not. Many game forums have terrible communities full of whiners. They are pretty good games too. For example: Battlefield 3, Guild Wars 2, League of Legends, etc. But believe me, those are all wonderful games and will flourish for a long time to come (if the naysayers don’t dissuade others from playing).

These games may have terrible communities but their forums are not this bad.

Yes the seasonal week events or w/e are part of the game, but they do not create lasting appeal or improve the game’s overall quality.

They are designed to create once a year unique skins or items that people will pay with money for or bring players back to the game temporarily. I have no problems with this, but this game has some serious issues right now and I feel as though having a strong core game is far more important than seasonal fluff.

Go to the LoL general forums:

How many posts do you see why people think this game is bad, with valid reasoning behind them?

AcidicVision.5498:

nofo.8469:

But yes, if you would prefer to play a game where the company spends all their resources on holiday celebrations instead of the actual game then this game is awesome.

Live team and content team are two separate departments. Same as in GW1. Holidays were just as elaborate (for the time), and new content still came out at a steady pace. I’m not sure you know well enough how the company allocates its resources to say they are wasting them in one place or another. But that information is out there if you want to educate yourself.

I would rather have working class skills than another money grab event tbh.

I don’t know how the company allocates its resources, but I can clearly observe they have much more resources allocated to seasonal events compared to what they use for bug fixes/polishing/PvE/PvP/WvW.

Elaborate holidays are cool, functional skills and good replayable content is better.

Duskmelt.9834:

You’re actually just in time for the Wintersday celebration! The game is NOT dying, it’s actually getting a lot of consistent support from Arenanet. This forum is full of whiners and naysayers. It’s ridiculous really.

This forum is full of whiners and naysayers for a reason.

Game forums are normally pretty bad but the only one that I can think of that compares to this is Diablo 3.

But yes, if you would prefer to play a game where the company spends all their resources on holiday celebrations instead of the actual game then this game is awesome.

AnemoneMeer.7182:

nofo.8469:

Flyfunner.2093:

IndigoSundown.5419:

Why did you buy the game? Stay in touch with that and don’t let what people type in forums influence your experience. You may have heard the expression, “Don’t believe everything you hear on TV.” That goes triple for what you read on the internet.

Especially when it comes out the dev’s mouth

lmao ouch.

So true though.

@OP, it’s not a bad game exactly, you will get your $60 if you enjoy leveling characters at the very least.

However if you want an MMO that you will play for an extensive period of time there are far better ones out there.

This game was designed with players constantly dropping in and out.

It is PvE oriented like WoW but far less polished, balanced and a lot less content; you don’t pay a monthly fee and it shows.

WoW has 7+ years of live polish. Anything at all trying to compete with that in sheer content/polish is going to lose due to timegap alone.

Exactly, so why ArenaNet decided to try and directly compete with WoW in terms of what content they offer is beyond me.

Seems like a beyond terrible business decision but w/e, their company their choice.

Tiger.7506:

Do not compare the progression of GW2 with the progression of Wow!
GW2 has vertical progression, but you’re still competitive even without the endgear !
We need vertical progression to end game.
if you do not have to endgear you still is competitive, will have only a little more difficult!

They already ended the game with vertical progression.

Wish granted.

No OP this game its thriving with its awesome PvE and PvP polished content, blows its competition out of the water.

Flyfunner.2093:

IndigoSundown.5419:

Why did you buy the game? Stay in touch with that and don’t let what people type in forums influence your experience. You may have heard the expression, “Don’t believe everything you hear on TV.” That goes triple for what you read on the internet.

Especially when it comes out the dev’s mouth

lmao ouch.

So true though.

@OP, it’s not a bad game exactly, you will get your $60 if you enjoy leveling characters at the very least.

However if you want an MMO that you will play for an extensive period of time there are far better ones out there.

This game was designed with players constantly dropping in and out.

It is PvE oriented like WoW but far less polished, balanced and a lot less content; you don’t pay a monthly fee and it shows.

PowerCat.5738:

I have explained that many times before. You simply choose to ignore it.

Let’s suppose that server status is current people playing at that time (which it isn’t), what happens if there’s 20 000 accounts registered to that server, but the server only handles 10 000 concurrent players? what happens to the rest? it tells them sorry you can’t connect?

Not saying its based on current players.

But saying its 100% based on registers users is BS too.

Serina.8652:

7 years is considered veteran? Man now I feel ancient with more then twice that amount of time of experience of mmo! :P

Anyway, personally I never been a fan on ingame stores since they often end up as pure pay to win, giving waaay to much advantage to those that choose to buy things from the store.
However, GW2 I gotta say have managed to implement it very well!
Its not pay to win, sure, buying gems makes the game more convinient and speed up the process somewhat but a player that havent used the store at all can still get gems and in the end all the same advantages, only takes more time.

haha yeah feeling old now.

I do however agree with the OP, gem shop has nothing appealing to it and arenaNet basically botched it entirely.

Before the FotM patch – it was so easy to get gold no reason to use gem store.

Post FoTM patch – no reason to spend $ on gem store because there is nothing worth buying there.

Boosters are ok but hardly worth $ IMO, if ANet wants people to open their wallet they either need to make some really appealing cosmetic stuff available there, or to make ascended items (or parts of) available for purchase.

PowerCat.5738:

Many times mods have said server capacity is people REGISTERED to that server.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/Server-Populations/first#post703192

There’s a quote from a mod. WHY ARE WE STILL ARGUING THIS?

Because when servers do drop from full, its always at the same time and it happens to multiple servers – offpeak.

It isn’t just accounts registered.

Everyone is doing fractals, that is where the fun is at.

Lionaeron.5724:

I’ll answer yours if you answer mine – _italic_Why has the MMO market become stale and repetitive?italic

EQ started it, WoW perfected it, everyone wants to be the best and MMO developers are too scared to make a PvP MMO. With the exception of CCP, let’s just hope their next MMO is less of a snoozefest due to mechanics, such a pity because their big picture for the game was spot on.

JemL.3501:

Atleast everyone seems to like the forums.

We’re all here because we care(d) about this game ^^

Wolfheart.1938:

JemL.3501:

Wolfheart.1938:

cool story

LOL = MOBA
WOW = MMORPG
SC2 = MMORTS
PS2 = MMOFPS

capiche?

Power creep? he doesnt explain anything than the obvious, he dont do a good job at it, he sounds like a console gamer. We arent playing The Legend of Zelda or Final Fantasy. You cannot compare two different types of gameplay and game mechanics, is delusional.

That video is terrible in all aspects, period.

Sorry, what? So just because the genres are different you can’t make any comparisons in relation to a phenomen that is non-genre based? Power creep may not be present in Tetris, but it’s common in many different online videogames that are regurarly updated, such as WoW or LoL.
Also “ermagerd, console gamers r sooooo dumbz lol”.

The target audience of this game isn’t exactly the intellectually gifted. It was made to be more “accessible” than WoW and I didn’t even think that was possible let alone feasible, I knew MMO’s have become more casual over the years but kitten

The person you are quoting is likely one of the “ kitten halo CoD yeahhh” console kids otherwise he would know that UO is an MMO and was also used in the comparison. He would also understand the arguments being posed and why the comparisons are legitimate.

This is what happens when you create an MMO with replayability based on loot addiction and no monthly fee.

xiv.7136:

Simply put.

The more angry people are at the game, the more they care.

No one makes page-long threads about something they don’t care about.

Other MMOs, people just leave.

GW2 people just complain and complain and complain and never go anywhere

If you don’t think a chunk of the playerbase jumped ship during the november patch you are incorrect.

Yes we care, because we once enjoyed this game and seeing it go down this path leaves us rather disappointed, but saying none of us have stopped playing this game is absurd.

Myself, my gf and at least 5 guildies dropped the game like it was hot the moment we realised item treadmill was coming. Saying that though, we were all part of a PvP community on the server so we would be biased against these kind of changes.

The question is, did this direction get enough new players to compensate for those that quit?

Do you guys really think that ArenaNet is going to distribute ascended items in a less grindy way outside of FotM?

What would happen to FotM then? Nobody would ever bother doing it because its boring as kitten, only reason anyone does it now is for gear don’t kid yourselves.

To all the white knights saying just wait it’ll all be ok arenaNet knows what they are doing. Yes kitten straight they know what they are doing and they know that they have already alienated everyone that isn’t a grind addict, they ARE smart enough not to alienate the last group supporting this game.

judeobscure.2537:

http://youtu.be/Bxszx60ZwGw

This.

Nothing really wrong with it but this is not the kind of game that was advertised to us.

It’s not a terrible game.

People just mad because the game was advertised as a PvP grind free MMO, it is no such thing.

This is like a more casual WoW/EQ in many regards, I got my $60 out of this.

edit: People will come and go from this game, everyone I know that bought this game and all those I befriended in game have since stopped playing.

If you are after an MMO that you will play for years this is not it, ArenaNet is pulling all stops to get money from the gem store and judging from the turn around in game direction they aren’t having much luck.

They are releasing new content instead of fixing or improving on current content in an attempt (successful) IMO to temporarily increase revenue. From my perspective however this is bad practice for any MMO that wants longevity.

Will you get your $60 out of this game? Definitely.

Would I recommend this to you? No.

goldi.3129:

nofo.8469:

Sounds like a bunch of jealous noobs that need soldier gear to stay alive in these piss easy dungeons to me.

Even if the warrior dies a few times in the fight, he does like triple your pathetic damage, doesn’t matter if you have 100% dps uptime at 1k dmg an attack.

Get carried more.

Yes and he does that because the rest of the party can’t dps as its ressing the warrior all the time and the warrior is counting on the rest of the group to sacrifice dps to

a.) debuff the boss
b.) buff the group
c.) heal the group

Try playing a dungeon with 5 players of such a build/mentaility and you are bound to horrible failure as everyone will just watch out for his own damage numbers. Try staying alive in those dungeons without those noobs who play supportive.

Yeah, if the warriors you run with die all the time you are grouping with bad warriors. I have run in a few guild groups that have 3-4 sig warriors in it. You know why they run on their sig warriors instead of their mains? Because the runs are 10x faster.

Get real about support in this game, it isn’t that good. This isn’t a game where support is needed. Yes it helps but anything beyond one person on support is rather pointless and you are better off with another selfish sig warrior.

Sylosi.6503:

nofo.8469:

How come when the population drops from full, its always outside of NA primetime?

Also how would servers ever drop from full in the first place? I doubt they are increasing server size due to their playerbase increasing.

Just a guess – they remove inactive accounts from the population calculation after a certain number of hours.

So for example if the cut off period is 240 hours and I logged out at 10pm, 240 hours ago, at 10.01pm my account would no longer be included in the calculation, repeat for however many players, most of which play somewhere around peak times and you get the population dropping at off peak.

Actually makes a lot of sense.

However if it worked like this all “full” servers would have roughly similar populations, this is not the case.

samrogan.9132:

When your excuse for not taking full 8 hour shifts is that “you will hit diminishing reaturns”

When you fear your job is going to get nerfed soon because you are farming too much money.

Noobkaka.5067:

Yeah, companies that know that they have messt up and wont admit that they still havent fixt the bugs, tend to limit the patch notes as much as possible, and also sneak in a few nerfs here and there.
Valve doesn’t do it, Blizzard sometimes do. But Anet-eh you know.

This.

At the blizzard example. Look at any of their successful games patch notes, ie WoW, SC2.

Then look at how much stuff gets thrown into D3 patches without any indication of what happened.

Companies don’t do it because they are lazy, they do it because they are incompetent and have something to hide.

AerictheBoss.9172:

Gehenna.3625:

It’s always a matter of definitions.

What is considered online population? Did they actually state this and if so, did they define how they measure online population? For all I know they consider someone online population if they logged in in the last week. Just saying.

Without an actual and precise explanation of what they measure and how they interpret these measurements, we will never know and I seriously doubt Anet are willing to divulge how they do this, simply because it allows manipulation.

Its per account on the server not people currently playing.

CC Eva wrote:
Connor, when you see a server FULL means that the people who’ve chosen that server as theirs, or players who have moved to that particular server, have reached the cap, independently of where did they create their accounts.

Writing on a phone so not going to quote it. They tried to edit there post to make it confusing. However you can find all the quotes by googling for it. It has nothing to do with people playin that’s why you see so many high pop servers where there is no one playing.

How come when the population drops from full, its always outside of NA primetime?

Also how would servers ever drop from full in the first place? I doubt they are increasing server size due to their playerbase increasing.

Game isn’t dead yet.

But the lost shores patch was akin to diagnosing it with some terminal disease. Shouldn’t be dead for awhile yet though.

Pray For Kosmos.5849:

I admit I’ve taken it too personal, but this is just how I feel about the game at the moment. I want horizontal progression and expanded content, not new stats and gear treadmills. Besides arguing about new gear and such, has anyone actually permanently or temporarily quit the game due to the introduction of Ascended Gear? Whoever has temporarily put the game to rest, how will the next big update change your mind? Are we over-reacting and taking it too personal?

No.

Everyone I played with dropped the game like it was hot the moment they realised the patch included a lengthy grind to obtain a new item tier.

Some people like it, some don’t, if you don’t enjoy the game put it away, you are far from the only one.

Taking it personally is a bet extreme, but being annoyed that what was advertised and what was received was sketchy at best is understandable.

Because in my fantasies I don’t run around in a dress shooting pixie dust from my hands. I’m far too manly for this.

OMG that looked awesome GW2 should definitely improve their PvP to be more like that.

Genesis.3295:

I absolutely love seeing a warrior bull rush me in spvp because I find its the easiest class to tear to pieces. Learn to cc and add more tough/vit and you’ll be just fine.

Unless he has a rifle and knows how to use it. In which case I hope you packed some vasoline.

@ OP. Engineers are more fun than warriors IMO and are capable at doing most things at least at a mediocre level, we are kings of CC above all else.

But saying that, if you want something that’s easy to play, will do more damage than anything an engineer can do with 2 buttons alone and generally have a far easier time wrecking people then warrior is definitely the way to go.

And yes from a PvE perspective warriors are straight up better than engineers, but that is true for pretty much every class compared to a warrior in a PvE scenario.

edit: Not being able to kill mobs your own level tells me there is something off about your playstyle or something. Make sure you are using kits a lot as our main weapons do pretty bad damage and are more used for utility.

I wouldn’t expect it anytime soon. 1 year before we get full ascended set at least imo.

Alastar.2863:

Now, people keep complaining that a grind EXISTS in this game, here are my thoughts:

First, I would say no REQUIRED grind, you don’t need uber gear for pvp since you have gear provided for you and wvw has hundreds of people and siege weapons, gear matters VERY little then. in pve once you hit exotics you are in pretty good shape, any more work woulds just be a little extra push you don’t REALLY need, though it could be a little convenient to have that small boost.

YOU GRIND BECAUSE YOU CHOOSE TO. Once you hit all exotics (plenty of vendors for that, like in Orr.) you are pretty much good to go Even legendaries don’t make that HUGE of a difference, noticeable, but not necessary.
they added quite a few things to make the game fun, World bosses, interesting events, dungeons (they are fun if you don’t make them a chore by your own choice and mindset) with alternate paths and stories, KEG BRAWL and in the upcoming update and event “wintersday” they will likely add ALOT more, maybe Charr Racing in the black citadel, one charr you can find around the tanks just inside the front gate of the black citadel was talking about that. I think that could be a fun mini-game.

Second:
Stop complaining about the EXISTANCE of the grind for the extra stuff and think about this:
Is there a SINGLE mmo that has less of a grind then this game?
(I’ll wait for an answer, let me know if one exists.)
In my personal experience, not sure how YOURS is but I find that I have been flying up levels, getting really powerful gear just by chance and if I don’t feel like working on my craftsmanship skills I’ll just buy a new item from the Trading post. Not bad at all.

I feel this is the best mmo I ever played, first one I ever felt it was worth my time to reach the level cap and keep playing! It eliminates everything I find annoying about mmos.

Enjoy the game, don’t make it a chore for yourself, if you can function and do serious damage to mobs and other players in the different modes and if you like Keg brawl, world bosses, events and other features in the game, stop complaining, maybe suggest a new approach or fixes but don’t say “the game is dead” or “they are destroying the game” or things along those lines, its only been out for a few months and they are bringing new features and fixes all the time and they listen to feedback.

People feel pressured to grind because nobody likes having inferior characters, besides there are aspects to WvW outside of the zergfest castle hopping PvD legion.

It’s not required yes, but neither is getting to level 80, or getting exotics, but most people do it anyway for the aforementioned reason.

Most PvP MMO’s have less of a grind than this game. SB DAoC and EVE are the three that come to my head, DAoC had plenty of grind post ToA but still far less than what is being asked here.

Depending on how you viewed WoW’s content it could have less grind than this too, certainly pre-progression raiding has less grind than this game and there are plenty of people who don’t view progression raiding as a grind otherwise the game would have died a long time ago, I personally do but each to their own. Even if you do view it as a grind, its comparable to this game.

And remember when making that comparison, this was marketed as a grind free PvP game. So being surprised when a lot of the people that purchased this get kitteny when they implement a grind that would make asian MMO’s blush is just being silly.

Why on earth is the definition of grind even being argued?

I have not once heard it used as positive, or even neutral description about an activity.

The word definitely has negative connotations, and if someone asked me to describe FotM in one word, “grind” would be it.

TWMagimay.9057:

nofo.8469:

Yeah, fair enough, each to their own, this game has potential for you imo because they will likely add more ways to get ascended gear if you are patient enough.

I on the other hand, came here for the WvW and found no progression to be had there, for the guild, server or myself. I do like progression however I don’t like it to be through gear, I would rather server leader-boards with guild/player rankings, benefits to winning WvW matches and some form of personal progression; even if it was titles alone.

You may not feel punished through ascended gear, but I do, if I don’t dedicate a few hours every day to this dungeon (something I do not enjoy) then my character will fall behind and not be competitive in WvW, and for the people who say there is no difference my guild ran small group WvW and I liked to roam a lot, trust me not having best gear makes a huge difference for that.

I must confess I did play the trading post to get my gold rather than do legit PvE, and I found that to be far more entertaining and profitable than running FotM.

If the game had fun ways to get the gear I wouldn’t have left, but as it stands at the moment I absolutely abhor the new dungeon and I feel spending several hundred hours in there to be competitive is an unacceptable level of “grind” in order to be competitive.

Read grind as doing something I do not particularly enjoy in order to do something I do enjoy better.

ie grinding levels, dungeon runs etc. The only differences between these examples and FotM is I found them more enjoyable, they had more variety, and they took less time.

They did say ascended gear will also come for karma(aka, that thing you get in bulks in WvWvW). But I guess “I want the best and I want it now”-mentality is hard to battle. You almost made it sound like everybody in WvWvW is running in full ascended gear and roflstomping you on every corner. While most people don’t even have a single ascended item and those who have more than 1, likely don’t have time to even be i WvWvW to begin with. But, yeah, gotta QQ, thinking is for noobs, right?

Right.

I never made it sound like everyone is running around in full ascended, eventually maybe but not now.

I would be more than happy to do the grind if I enjoyed it at all, I do not.

They said ascended gear would be available through other means, and it will probably require as much of a grind as this otherwise they just made all that effort they put into the dungeon obsolete.

No, the reason I’m not thinking and QQing instead is the direction of the game, actions speak louder than words and the patch notes indicate this game is going in a very grind heavy direction.

Also, the exotic armor sets are available outside of dungeons, how’s that working for everybody? The karma set is alright but its limited in what stats you can get.

edit: They did say a lot of things, yes.

Good post.

I 100% agree with the WvW section, could have been so much more than it was.

The SPvP is really bad, I played about 2 games of that before I got bored, mind you I don’t think they should have implemented it in the first place because I have never seen an MMO do arena combat better than any of the other genres. Apparently GW1 did it well but I can’t comment on that as I didn’t play it sadly.

On builds and classes, yeah agreed too, I don’t know why they flaunted the class system as been better than what came before it seems the same except with more broken skills to me. I don’t think its a fault of the classes exactly but more the general game systems they have in place are extremely simple and have little to no capability for creative use.

PvE, never really found PvE in MMO’s to be fun I was glad it was reasonably short in GW2 until the mid November patch.

Hellkaiser.6025:

nofo.8469:

Wasn’t worth it to you, or me for that matter, but to some people grinding legendary mats was worth it.

Some people enjoyed it though, or felt the need to get that extra bling to show off and this implementation worked for them, if its too grindy for you its just not for you, you aren’t being punished for it so I don’t see the problem. The same can’t be said for ascended gear.

The “It’s a PvP game” argument would hold weight if it actually was a PvP game. The only form of PvP that ANet seems to push is SPvP which very few people actually play as its basically a bad version of world of warcraft battlegrounds which wasn’t very good in the first place.

This is a PvE game through and through, the only issue most have with this (aside from the manifesto and advertising indicating otherwise) is that the grind is generally not as rewarding, and honestly less “fun” than other MMO’s that it is in direct competition with.

I put fun in quotes because I generally do not like grinding at all, however I did spend some time in WoW progression raiding which was pretty nightmarish, but at least I felt a sense of progression there.

edit: rofl your quote guide screwed my quotes up

I’m not being punished no, I never made that claim as it would be preposterous.
No I’m merely stating that there’s nothing about the “extra” bling bling to draw me to it, and I LIKE progressive gameplay and gear progression, I have nothing against it so long as the path to get there doesn’t force me to play the game in ways that I don’t WANT to.

Right now, in order for me to grind the mats for a legendary (read: legen-dairy ie farm) I would have to get together a group to grind drops from orr, sometimes the events are bugged and that’s not even an option. And so on to the alternatives, I could perhaps play the market and earn gold that way via clever investing and whatnot… But as I stated I DO NOT want a return to the auctions of auctioncraft playstyle if this disqualifies me from another avenue to pursue then so be it, but then lets look at the OTHER alternatives, Buying gold either direct or via nefarious sources is out of the question the official gold is too expensive and the unofficial would get me banned and support a terrible group of people who need to all just stop wrecking games. There’s another gone, not to mention the forced map completion and/or WVWVW participation etc, and all in all even the devs themselves admit that the way you obtain legendary weapons is far from “legendary” or even enjoyable.

That’s a subjective opinion, but if the way you got them was more enjoyable and had more to do with playing the game not gaming the market or running around like a headless chicken I’d probably be more inclined to do it.
I’ve advocated the idea of different legendary weapons for different aspects of the game including one that is based around gaining gold via the market or something and others which are tied to wv and spvp which would denote you’ve mastered an aspect of the game enough to be considered legendary at it as opposed to this generic minor bling we see now which holds little weight to many other players.

Yeah, fair enough, each to their own, this game has potential for you imo because they will likely add more ways to get ascended gear if you are patient enough.

I on the other hand, came here for the WvW and found no progression to be had there, for the guild, server or myself. I do like progression however I don’t like it to be through gear, I would rather server leader-boards with guild/player rankings, benefits to winning WvW matches and some form of personal progression; even if it was titles alone.

You may not feel punished through ascended gear, but I do, if I don’t dedicate a few hours every day to this dungeon (something I do not enjoy) then my character will fall behind and not be competitive in WvW, and for the people who say there is no difference my guild ran small group WvW and I liked to roam a lot, trust me not having best gear makes a huge difference for that.

I must confess I did play the trading post to get my gold rather than do legit PvE, and I found that to be far more entertaining and profitable than running FotM.

If the game had fun ways to get the gear I wouldn’t have left, but as it stands at the moment I absolutely abhor the new dungeon and I feel spending several hundred hours in there to be competitive is an unacceptable level of “grind” in order to be competitive.

Read grind as doing something I do not particularly enjoy in order to do something I do enjoy better.

ie grinding levels, dungeon runs etc. The only differences between these examples and FotM is I found them more enjoyable, they had more variety, and they took less time.

Death Reincarnated.3570:

nofo.8469:

Death Reincarnated.3570:

You cannot completely remove grinding from any game. Otherwise the game would not offer long term goals for the player.

The problem is getting the balance right – i.e. grind/reward.

Partially incorrect.

The idea is to remove the grind but have long term progression.

People do not enjoy grinding, people do enjoy being rewarded however.

Take WoW for a PvE example, it’s less of a grind than this but it still feels highly rewarding.

Or take DAoC for a PvP example, not a grind but lots of long term progression through RR.

People do not like long term repetitiveness – it gets boring. You still need to do same/similar tasks to obtain some of the long/longer term goals, however, there needs to be balance with the lengh (repetitiveness) of the “grind”.

Exactly, if people do something that’s repetitive but enjoy it they won’t consider it a grind.

MMO’s do need a task that players can repeat and progress from but they still need to enjoy it otherwise it becomes a grind and eventually the players will get jaded and leave.

Prime example is the Diablo2 and Diablo3 comparison. Although they aren’t MMO’s they are structured similarly.

IndigoSundown.5419:

nofo.8469:

Take WoW for a PvE example, it’s less of a grind than this but it still feels highly rewarding.

That is a very subjective statement. For me, WoW was a horrible grind. Getting a WoW purple was just “gearing up so you can continue to gear up.” When I left WoW, I swore I would never get into that gear up infinite loop again. To me, that is as pointless as it gets.

GW2, on the other hand, does not match up to GW1 in terms of rewards. The drop rates in general in GW1 were better, the desirable rare drops were heck of rare, but you could get gold by doing many different things. Farming in GW2 is not yet as fun or as lucrative as it was in GW1. Maybe that will change.

True it is rather subjective. I’m talking about the post exotic gear grind in gw2, getting up to exotic was rewarding and not much of a grind at all.

Post-exo GW2 grind isn’t rewarding in the slightest and doesn’t hold a candle to their competition in the gear treadmill MMO sub-genre.

Death Reincarnated.3570:

You cannot completely remove grinding from any game. Otherwise the game would not offer long term goals for the player.

The problem is getting the balance right – i.e. grind/reward.

Partially incorrect.

The idea is to remove the grind but have long term progression.

People do not enjoy grinding, people do enjoy being rewarded however.

Take WoW for a PvE example, it’s less of a grind than this but it still feels highly rewarding.

Or take DAoC for a PvP example, not a grind but lots of long term progression through RR.

Hellkaiser.6025:

Jski.6180:

ChairGraveyard.2967:

Jski.6180:

nofo.8469:

Garack.1843:

Anyone ever think Legendaries are meant to be a grind and are implemented for those who enjoy doing so? No? Just me… Okay finds door hits self with door on way out by mistake

Yeah, legendaries were a massive optional grind.

Nobody wants to play a sub-par character. The moment I had to choose between sub-par character or several hundred (thousand?) dungeon runs I decided to drop this game.

Some people enjoy it, some people don’t, not going to knock the people who enjoy it but this game was marketed towards the people who don’t.

Good would you stop posting here then?
Legendarily has nothing to do with being sub-par or not its a look thing and even if they do buff them there going to be a version that any one can get with out the cool looks.

He’s talking about Ascended. He was fine with Legendary, not fine with Ascended, as Legendary was always supposed to be the cosmetic grind for those that wanted it.

At least try to understand the person you’re responding to.

He should point out that he was talking about Ascended because it implies that Legendaryes are the only thing he talking about as things stand. Point being made about Ascended if you can some how only make a person off 2 rings and one back then yes with out them your sub-par but you CANT make a person just off 3 items there still more to be added more rings back and others and as things stand it still up in the air how hard or not hard these items will be.

I post here because I care about this game I once enjoyed, sorry not going anywhere.

Did you even read my post though? Seriously? When did I say legendaries are mandatory? In fact I’m pretty sure I said they were optional because they were in line with top end gear at the time.

They will buff legendaries when ascended weapons are released, and yes anyone will be able to get them just like anyone can get all the current ascended items.

So from that point of view why did you drop the game?
Meh that did not work well sry @nofo.8469

You almost had the quote code right, but adding in / after the [ denotes the END of a quotation hence [/!quote] minus the / is the start and with is the end.

For many, the only real horizontal progression worth their time would have been legendary weapons. However one glance at their crafting materials, and one venture towards farming some of them would lead you quickly to the conclusion that it’s a massive pain in the rear to attempt to get one. I’m not going to claim that this means you should get your credit card out and buy one, heaven forbid. But it does indicate that a lot of players who don’t want to recreate their auctions of auctioncraft gameplay experience would be put off, also those that didn’t want to WVWVW would be thrown in there at some point and all in this time, there’s a grind that sucks the life from players…

the problem with legendary weapons is not “are they or are they not optional” it’s that the option to choose to try for one is fraught with RNG and farming as well as grind and repetition and weeks if not months, it’s just not worth it.

People will argue falsely that it’s a “pvp game” but that’s not an excuse, they’ll say I’m stupid, wrong or just bias but ultimately I looked at the legendary weapons and just rolled my eyes and ignored them meaning I am actively not engaging in something I would normally should it be better structured and balanced.

Wasn’t worth it to you, or me for that matter, but to some people grinding legendary mats was worth it.

Some people enjoyed it though, or felt the need to get that extra bling to show off and this implementation worked for them, if its too grindy for you its just not for you, you aren’t being punished for it so I don’t see the problem. The same can’t be said for ascended gear.

The “It’s a PvP game” argument would hold weight if it actually was a PvP game. The only form of PvP that ANet seems to push is SPvP which very few people actually play as its basically a bad version of world of warcraft battlegrounds which wasn’t very good in the first place.

This is a PvE game through and through, the only issue most have with this (aside from the manifesto and advertising indicating otherwise) is that the grind is generally not as rewarding, and honestly less “fun” than other MMO’s that it is in direct competition with.

I put fun in quotes because I generally do not like grinding at all, however I did spend some time in WoW progression raiding which was pretty nightmarish, but at least I felt a sense of progression there.

edit: rofl your quote guide screwed my quotes up

Jski.6180:

nofo.8469:

Garack.1843:

Anyone ever think Legendaries are meant to be a grind and are implemented for those who enjoy doing so? No? Just me… Okay finds door hits self with door on way out by mistake

Yeah, legendaries were a massive optional grind.

Nobody wants to play a sub-par character. The moment I had to choose between sub-par character or several hundred (thousand?) dungeon runs I decided to drop this game.

Some people enjoy it, some people don’t, not going to knock the people who enjoy it but this game was marketed towards the people who don’t.

Good would you stop posting here then?
Legendarily has nothing to do with being sub-par or not its a look thing and even if they do buff them there going to be a version that any one can get with out the cool looks.

I post here because I care about this game I once enjoyed, sorry not going anywhere.

Did you even read my post though? Seriously? When did I say legendaries are mandatory? In fact I’m pretty sure I said they were optional because they were in line with top end gear at the time.

They will buff legendaries when ascended weapons are released, and yes anyone will be able to get them just like anyone can get all the current ascended items.

I’m pretty sure sending a bunch of psychopaths to his nation butchering thousands of his farmers, nobles and other assorted citizens accounts for his “unprovoked” attack on cloor island.

Garack.1843:

Anyone ever think Legendaries are meant to be a grind and are implemented for those who enjoy doing so? No? Just me… Okay finds door hits self with door on way out by mistake

Yeah, legendaries were a massive optional grind.

Nobody wants to play a sub-par character. The moment I had to choose between sub-par character or several hundred (thousand?) dungeon runs I decided to drop this game.

Some people enjoy it, some people don’t, not going to knock the people who enjoy it but this game was marketed towards the people who don’t.

I don’t understand why Zhaitan is such a bad guy.

I mean sure he attacks lions’ arch, but that’s likely in response to 100’s of adventurers pillaging his empire.

When he does get his empire back because all the invaders decided to do fractal reruns he doesn’t invade or anything, he just chills in his empire happy to finally have some peace and quiet.

Stop being cretins and attacking orr, they are just minding their own business.

Graill.8596:

This quote made me laugh:

• “In gw1 we had dungeons that required skill and dungeons which required less skill for those who wanted to run them due to casual player skill.”

I love how this last decade has raised children to think “Skill” has a set meaning, that only groups have it, and anyone not in a group has “Less to no skill” too funny. These same children are raised to think MMO means “Must group”, also humorous.

There are better sub-genres of games for solo play.

Strongly encouraging social interaction in MMO’s is a good thing. Most games that have large amounts of longevity rely on social interaction, not just MMO’s; its something humans like to do.

edit: I don’t think your quote was inferring that casual players don’t have skill, my interpretation was people who play less are on average less skilled or have less knowledge about the game than those who play it more.

Saying there isn’t a skillgap between the average casual gamer who plays 5-10 hours a week and the average hardcore gamer who plays 50-100 hours a week is absurd. Designing content for both parties is not a bad idea.

Stark.1350:

Looria.8019:

Stark.1350:

Vakirauta.6397:

Stark.1350:

Because I want them sitting here, all day, talking with us about what it is they’re doing instead of actually doing it. They have a huge update coming out in 11 days for Wintersday – I IMAGINE they’re working on that.

And frankly, I’ve seen more dev posts on these forums than I have for WoW, EQ2 or any other MMO I’ve played.

The last HUGE patch they added had nothing useful, mate.

Lost Shores was nothing useful? Are you out of your mind?

And what usefull did it bring?
One time event that received as much hate as I have yet to see in any MMO history (dont get me wrong, the idea behind the event was great, but the execution was worse than poor)
Half finished zone thats pretty much dead right now with no incentive to go there.

I will give them the dungeon (which im not even doing) but also the leveling system there and the ascended items brought more negative feedback than positive.

Maybe if they have discussed this with us, community, they would have not done these things so poorly. They would be happy cause we would play the game and we would be happy because it would turn out right.

Oh yes. Let’s discuss things with the community and put things to a vote. Great idea. headdesk

It gave you content. Which everyone has been crying and stomping their feet about for a while now. “There is NOTHING to do at 80!”. I see people spamming groups for fractals all the time – clearly a big chunk of people are enjoying it.

As for the event, they said they learned their lesson on it. And from what I’ve heard, Lost Shores was just a start to that area – more is going to be added to it later.

I see people spamming newspapers LFM for various jobs every day, most people even join these groups.

Clearly everyone loves it.

When gameplay can be compared to this, you know its time to put the game down.

Pretty sure they said in at least one of their manifestos this would be a relatively grind free game.

How long does it take to get ascended items so far?

squared.1729:

Martin Kerstein.3071:

I changed the title to reflect that it is a personal opinion.

Can we edit Jon Peters posts about fixing Rangers too then? Because clearly those were personal opinion and not fact…

/incoming infraction

lmao.

But yes, focusing on improving and fixing current content before adding new content that makes it obsolete would be a better design direction imo.

I would love to see this game on consoles.

Imagine running split screen fractals with your friends.

Or loading the zerg in WvW with your CPU from 10 years ago because this game wasn’t optimised to use a graphics card. That’s normally the kind of thing you see in a console port fyi.

Wouldn’t be surprised, would expand the market at least.

Ele is great in PvP last I checked, their bunker build at least.

Necro and thief are also good at SPvP, although for premade tourney play you will see less bursty thieves and more DoT roamers.

All are good choices, for SPvP it doesnt matter though since you can have any of them, for WvW it’s the same really, just preference of playstyle. Whichever one you have fun playing the most roll with it.