Guild Wars 2

Watched the videos enjoyed when Vain was like “hmm this seems strong”. What about D/F? It would give a defensive/sustain set a good burst output something it is missing. You have a 3 condi clear on earth 4 with reflect and invuln on earth 5. I might try this later with D/F.

dancingmonkey does have a very good point.

What ends up happening in the discussions on this forum is professions get generalized by their popular builds. This makes it hard to have good discussions because someone throws in “well I run this build that doesn’t have X” or you get the “30/30/30/30/30 or 6/6/6/6/6 builds”. Usually that is how many of the discussions end up going.

Even in the Pro vs Anti condition discussions all the popular condition builds are thrown in the same pot as if they all function the same when that is not the case. A PU condi mesmer doesn’t do conditions like a Terrormancer or Bomb Kit Engi, they also don’t have the same weakness or strengths 2 are weak to other condition builds where one excels against other condition builds. The PU condi mesmer gets good defensive boons regularly and has stealth something the Terrormancer knows nothing of.

I have been guilty slipping into generalizations occasionally but I try not to make a habit of it. It really should be a less common practice on these forums.

fluidmonolith.3584:

I have been running into more of this lately as well (being unable to kill an enemy but also being unkillable myself, 1v1). I don’t think this is necessarily a bad thing – these fights are often fun for me since survivability is often tied to player input (proper use of dodges, blocks, and CCs). Nonetheless, I do agree that fights need to end, either by a player dying or running away, especially when the players are both glassy. I have thought of a few possible solutions:

1) undo the berserker damage nerf.
I don’t support this solution since I think damage is high enough as-is. Furthermore, if damage is increased, the chance of dying in single burst in a couple seconds or less also increases. Some may argue against this, but there is a fine balance to be obtained between punishing players with insta-death for a single mistake (or simply being out of defensive cooldowns/dodges) and making defenses/CCs irrelevant due to passive defenses, and I think were are in a good spot in the regard now.

2) decrease active defenses.
I don’t support this solution. In this, I am including dodges, blocks, invulnerabilities, and CCs. I don’t support decreasing these skills because they are all generally active and require well-timed player input in order to succeed. In some cases, it may be possible that players can have too many active defenses, allowing them to shuffle between them on cooldown and have a very high invulerability uptime. However, I do not think this situation is very common, and often builds that do this will give up a significant amount of damage and passive defense. Furthermore, decreasing these active defenses would shift combat outcomes toward passive factors (healing power, toughness, damage-per-second).

3) My proposed solution – Nerf healing
If healing is nerfed, player sustainability is reduced without simultaneously making players more volatile (capable of being 100-0% shot in a very, very short time) or decreasing the value of player input (active defenses). I would support a nerf to all base healing but NOT to healing power scaling. The contribution of healing power is often considered low for many (but not all) builds/skills. Nerfing base healing would make healing power contribute to a greater fraction of overall healing.

TLDR – nerf base healing and survivability goes down without removing the value of player skill, and as a bonus, healing power becomes more valuable

Nerfing healing doesn’t fix 2 heavies kiting when they get low in a 1v1. It’s a 1v1 and shouldn’t be a reason to nerf base healing across the game short sighted thinking. Who cares really if a guard and warrior don’t kill each other is that really a problem even if they are in full zerker. It’s 1v1 and if he would have came across another build/class in full zerker someone would have died.

So many suggestions to change things for the sake of change.

Littlefeather.8623:

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

Littlefeather.8623:

Toughness should include some Condi resistance…

Then Knight’s gear becomes THE best set in the game because nothing would counter high toughness.

No.

Well my friend, some classes have very low health pools. While those classes have condi removals, they do not have enough condi removal for the frequency of condi application. Condi resistance in Toughness stat would let me play my power build with low HP and some condi removal without dropping from ranged condi’s in less than 8 seconds. But you must be on the other side of the fence…

This is what we have been saying from the start people want to run their build and want the game to change to suit their build. That is being selfish at least you admitted it.

Also my elementalist would be pretty powerful if toughness added condition resistance. Don’t forget cavalier gear also, and I have good cleanses now.

What is never going to happen is cleansing that matches application this is a pipe dream.

style.6173:

In my opinion, ANET should change the way that condi damage is calculated. For direct damage, a person cares about power, precision and ferocity. For condi, you really only need to care about condi damage and condi duration. Because of only needing two stats, it allows people to spec much more defensively and still do a lot of damage.

This is build dependent and direct damage builds do the same thing often. Why do you think a warrior gets away with going 4-6 points in defense and still put out it’s amount of damage? Why do you think a elementalist can get away with 4-6 points in water and 6 points in the boon duration tree and still put out good damage?

The answer? Fury/Might/Runes/Sigils.

A meditation guardian build in WvW can have 3k+ armor and still hit hard because of strength in numbers+6 honor with some burst healing from meditations if they chose. The vast majority of popular direct damage builds out there aren’t full Zerker with 6 in power tree, 6 critical chance tree with the last 2 in crit damage tree.

Tanky with good damage is far from exclusive to condition builds. If 2.5k+ armor is when we define tanky or even 2.6k+ there are alot of popular direct damage builds that hit that especially the heavies. Thief and Mesmer are probably the 2 classes that can get away with less then 2.4k armor on a consistent basis just from my personal experience.

insanemaniac.2456:

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

Optimal survivability is 1 armor/10 health, and conveniently, that’s what a single point of Toughness and Vitality give respectively.

what a misleading oversimplification

Once you reach a certain amount of vitality class dependent

This might not turn out all that positive because you are a necromancer having issues with a condition thief. Still I understand because you are power just preparing you for what may come in this thread.

The condi burst is the beginning with steal or whenever they steal is when the highest burst is coming. I don’t know what your build is but power staff and dagger off hand should allow you to transfer back to the thief. P/D thieves are the one condi build that can handle a condition necro just because they can survive the condition transfer by going into stealth, where other condition builds usually can’t.

I don’t run power on my necro so I can’t really comment on the play style I have run the P/D thief build before and the spike is usually after the steal/cnd sneak attack, then you want to try and get in for cloak and dagger to sneak attack again trying to setup another steal condi spike.

The steal depending on trats will poison, apply confusion, and allow for shadow strike or cnd to put cover vulnerability on with sneak attack follow up out of stealth.

I wouldn’t call P/D condi a meta shift maybe just luck on your part. I have condi p/d gear and my direct damage setup for my thief and run direct damage s/d most of the time but sometimes go p/d. It’s easy and its effective but it is weak when the numbers get larger and not 1v1/1v2’s. You can down in 1v2’s but getting a stomp is hard since you don’t have cleave and usually by that time you get someone down in a 1v2 it has become a 1v3+. It’s a troll build but dangerous in small man if you run venom share on it.

My personal experience lately has been even between direct damage thieves and P/D condi thieves I see about the same for numbers. I wouldn’t call your experience a meta shift which means most thieves solo roaming in WvW on all servers favor P/D condi which I don’t think is the case.

If we have 2 sides to this argument about conditions and label a Anti-Condi camp and Pro-Condi camp for simplicity reasons the Pro-Condi camp and the Developers would probably have similar opinions.

Condition damage is an established damage type in GW2 much like critical damage. The difference with critical damage before was that it was not a normalized stat in how it scaled/functioned/equipped. It would be hard to give a good solid argument why a main damage type should be changed again when it is already normalized and functions similar to other stats in game and always has. Then on top of that is the stack cap which no other stat type has to deal with.

I don’t see any drastic changes to condition damage happening overall until something is done with the stack cap if that ever happens. Then the team can sit down for a hard look at conditions overall and address the stack cap at the same time.

Don’t use double tap to dodge.

musu.9205:

oZii.2864:

The best was the thread on lyssa rune spam by warriors and thieves

Lyssa rune was too strong (if you really hate to someone use word "overpowered ").But nothing to do with spamming . People usually cry something spamming they just think those stuff are too easy to use and high rewarding .Yes , players shouldn’t be so exaggerated , but many things are understandable .
You could disagree , but if fighting each other for some usage of certain words is so fun for you , we should turn all balance topic to balance semantics?

It isn’t understandable otherwise people wouldn’t point it out. See above black devil said spam F1. Someone pointed out you can’t spam F1 then it just makes it appear black devil has no idea what he is talking about. Then he can either move on or explain himself usually what happens is the explanation. Instead just say what you actually mean the first time for a good discussion.

a t s e.9614:

Yes sure let’s buff the only guard weakness so it will have none. Don’t forget to give stealth to warriors and clones to thieves.

Mobility is another weakness getting into battle is easy getting out isn’t. You are probably looking at it from a 1v1 dueling standpoint as usual though.

Let’s say you get a sit down with Jon Peters to plead your case that conditions are to strong.

You would have to prove that conditions are to strong despite the fact in high level s/tPvP condi builds aren’t the majority, WvW large scale battles are power damage dominated, and PvE where it’s direct damage.

The deck is stacked against the argument from the beginning.

Even if you make a decent argument about small scale WvW roaming, dueling, and lower tier sPvP, then the Devs would have to decide to nerf conditions for these areas that would nerf conditions in the others. 2 of which aren’t the objective of WvW or sPvP. If we use 2 areas that aren’t formally supported formats then you can say GvG’s that also aren’t formally supported and mirror what you see in other game modes.

We need to nerf rune of the monk since it’s 10% more healing then any other rune it’s like scholar runes for healing power.

The best was the thread on lyssa rune spam by warriors and thieves

BlackDevil.9268:

Ghostwolf.9863:

musu.9205:

But since thief highly counters mesmer

Never noticed this, 4/4/0/0/6 shatter.

And no to your request, 3s stability from a stolen ability from a steal that might not even land and clones usually deal with Aegis. You can also make a build focusing on destroying boons if it bothers you that much.

Maybe you never faced good thieves then, cause overall, thief is the hard-counter to mesmers at the moment.

Might not even land? Either that mesmer can dodge really good, or the thief is just failing to spam f1.

Make a build to counter a skill? Let’s just not do that shall we?
The stability and aegis are both not in the description, while the buffs are already long enough. The moment you think you can counter the thief by using I-wave when he uses his shadow refuge, it wont push him out cause he uses the cheap steal skill. The skill is already strong enough without it, why put both aegis and stability on it too? It’s not like mesmer gets stability from the signet of inspiration. It’s actually funny cause mesmer has almost 0 access to stability.

Any good thief will dodge roll as soon as you he see’s you walking obviously over to refuge for the i-wave counter

Atherakhia.4086:

Looks reasonable. I’d go Thief, Warrior, Guardian, Mesmer, Engineer, Elementalist, Ranger, Necromancer personally.

I think Ranger should be higher even though long bow specs with little mobility might be common a Ranger can definitely get away faster then a mesmer.

If anyone has ever fought or the DUO ranger from Blackgate you know Rangers can be a pain to catch.

I agree with your list but I am not sure why you posted it. It’s pretty common knowledge. Ranger can be much higher on that list if it wants either next to or right under warrior.

I think this is more a issue or boring when it is 2 thieves fighting each other. Both know what damage will come from stealth so both know to avoid backstab as much as possible. D/P gives the “free” stealth and a blind field to help against a /x user. I don’t find D/P thieves difficult on any of my other classes just when your on a thief vs another thief the fight teeters on the verge of 1 or 2 hits.

I run S/D+D/P but mostly use S/D and swap to D/P to go for backstab HS finish when they hit low health.

Many D/P thieves 5,2,1 attempt backstab dodge roll 5,2,1 repeat.

mrauls.6519:

Balance to me is every profession being capable of killing the other professions in a competent way

Then the game is balanced for you since you can counter any other build by changing traits and weapons. I don’t think there are any uncounterable builds. Professions on the surface need certain traits/weapons to counter other builds.

Here is a quote from Jon Peters on balance

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/engineer/December-10th-Balance-update/3162445

JonPeters.5630:

If all we do is take the worst traits and buff them, then every patch everything gets stronger and eventually the game is broken. The word balance literally means reaching an equilibrium which is in between two end points. This means that in order to reach it things must assuredly go up and down.

The take away is there will never be perfect balance. He is talking about a trait in this case IP but same can be said of classes, modes, etc. There will always be movement trying to balance.

Right now there are going to be people that think this game is “pretty balance” you would probably have difficulty finding someone say it is perfectly balanced. On the other side you will find the other extreme “horribly balanced”. Thats why these profession forums kind of speak that the game is more balanced then people give it credit for since almost every class has been complained about.

Siva Mira.3546:

It is amazing how people think we should have 100 runes of choice but we should only use one rune because it is just better than other rune in every possible way. And then they ask for build diversity. These people need to get real. If A is broken then fix A not B.

Nerfing A or in this case Runes of Strength doesn’t change that D-Z are still subpar runes and after A is nerfed runes B and C will become closer to A. So you have a big whopping 3 runes which is all you pretty much had people use before anyway.

The whole focus on Runes of Strength is because all anyone seems to focus on is damage what about the toughness runes, vitality runes, and healing power runes there is a “best” rune for each one of those categories for PvP but we only care about DPS. It’s the same reason it’s ok for most people that Guardian has always stayed in the Meta because it’s a bunker and not doing damage. Meanwhile, Rune of the Monk gives out 10% more healing then any other healing power rune. It’s ok to heal 10% more then another rune but it can’t be even a 1% more dps for a dps Rune.

It’s ok if you tank me but don’t kill me fast.

The only thing that can be done to make the other runes better for dps is give them modifers. That’s the only way your going to get a ferocity only Rune like Rage to matchup with Ogre make the modifier higher since it is lacking 2 important offensive stats. While they are at it add a modifier to lyssa runes since it only has precision so it’s dps is terrible.

You just can’t make a rune with 1 offensive stat match a 2 or 3 offensive stat rune for dps. Brawler runes with Pow/Toughness wont out dps Scholar or Ogre because it is missing a offensive stat they won’t ever come close. It’s so simple I don’t know why people don’t understand this part. There is always going to be a best.

You are going to be hit by something if it’s direct damage or condition damage. Nobody is going unscathed in either battle.

Mattmatt.4962:

Bhawb.7408:

Its very easy to do 7k+ damage in one hit in sPvP,

Its very easy to avoid it too.

So you never get hit for more then 7k damage when you fight a power build? Not everything is a warrior with high telegraphed skills.

Lets change -
IP,
Vigor on crit,
bleed on crit,
swiftness on crit,
might on crit,
all proc sigils,
life steal on crit,
life force regeneration on crit,
when you reach X health you gain Y,
Remove all conditions caused by weapon skills i.e. immobilize, cripple, bleed
Remove all invulnerable skills or give them a cast time.
Remove all instant skills or give them a cast time
Change dodge function to give a cast time or remove invulnerability frames from dodges
Remove all evade skills
Put a cast time on Weapon swap

The premise that you can’t outplay IP so it’s bad is weak otherwise Anet would have given us infinite dodges or a block button like a fighting game. There are so many things in this game you can’t outplay! Guaranteed damage is apart of the game just like guaranteed avoidance is apart of the game. If you don’t like guaranteed damage then you need to play another game and probably another genre.

This is what I am running now or similar same traits though I just run it with nightmare runes it’s a good build against most classes decent against warriors if you can hold them off till stability wears off. I think this was the old terrormancer build but I didn’t play necro back then I just remember seeing this trait setup before.

You are short 10% for 100% fear duration though.

Aberrant.6749:

It’s not that it doesn’t exist, it doesn’t exist in enough quantity/quality to be able to consider these runes balanced. 7% for having any might at all (which is very extremely to get) is too much. Things like the eng’s throw mine (the field toolbelt skill doesn’t remove any) are terrible and remove 1 boon. You’re almost certainly going to have more than just that one boon and be able to reapply the strength faster than the cooldown. Sorry if my post was confusing.

Ahh ok I think I misunderstood

I’ll leave this here.

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/alternative

Alternative : offering or expressing a choice <several alternative plans>
: different from the usual or conventional: as

Lifestealer.4910:

Given how ridiculous condition spam build is, strength rune is vital to combat condition builds and give power builds a fighting chance. if you nerf it, condition builds will again become the most dominant build and thus trumps any power builds out the window.

This game doesn’t need to turn into condition wars 2 just because this rune rustled a few jimmies.

Do you think before posting or just decided to make this post on purpose?

A Mesmer, Thief, Necromancer who have condi builds people complain about can all corrupt or strip the might easily if they want. Strength runes have absolutely nothing to do with people not running conditions. Necro’s where nerfed that is why you don’t see as many till they figure out their place in the meta.

It’s like your trying to make it out that strength gives you soooo much damage to fight condi builds that can remove that might if they spec for it. I don’t understand the logic here at all.

Lettuce.2945:

Rofl, this is probably posted by a condi scrub. I’m tired of those guys trying to cry nerf rune of strength because DPS builds can actually fight back against condi spamming face roll classes. I’m not even kidding, lately in spvp and tpvp…I’m seeing a TON of condi spec classes just slapping like 40-50 conditions on a target in like 20 seconds or less. It’s not even funny. Nerf condis before you even consider nerfing strength runes. And I kitten you not (i typed kitten manually), a few solo queue matches in a row…I pvped a whole team of condis. Not kidding at all. We won because our team was more balanced but still…Cleansing all of those conditions were a pain and it’s not even fun when you run into a condi wall zerg.

News flash, if you play condition build, you are NOT SKILLED. Get it? NOT SKILLED. Go kitten yourselves if you think you are. It’s to compensate for your lack of skills. -_-

Not everyone plays in your world or by your rules. I run condi on my engi and necro occasionally thief but mostly power, sometimes condi on mesmer. My Main is a elementalist. The OP is asking for them to be nerfed because he says they make HIM to strong. I don’t want them nerfed and I play condi on certain classes. People do have alts and not everything is some hidden motive.

Aedrion.6483:

On topic, Balance is not subjective. saying: I can’t beat X while playing Y so X is OP, THAT is subjective.

Just on this point the problem is how do you define Balance in GW2? Most of the balance threads or complaints end up coming down to I can’t beat X, or Y is unbeatable, everyone is using Z so it has to be broken, sure I can counter A with B but A comes back to quickly, I can’t kill D because D has more mobility then my C. These forums are a showcase in how everything is all over the place, overreactions 1 day after patch hits, 3 days prior to a patch not having played any of it, or second hand information someones buddy told them about.

Many on the forums don’t care about the team aspect in GW2 at all and only want self efficiency. You can see it shine through in their posts like many have said to many people think this game is about 1v1’s. Why on this green earth is there so much focus on 1v1’s when there is no 1v1 game mode. Despite that you still have a chance win and it isn’t set in stone some fights are uphill battles.

Yes it does bother me when it is asuran warriors because evis, bullscharge, rush, shield bash are hard to tell. That’s really the only class it bothers me on ele is a little off looking for fire grab but not to much of a problem.

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

The issue with Runes of Strength is twofold:

1. The runes are over-budget, especially the 4-piece tier.

2. The “conditional modifier” is met nearly 100% of the time by the runes themselves. The person wearing them literally does not have to do anything to get that bonus almost all of the time. All other runes with conditional damage modifiers require effort from the wearer to maintain the bonus. Runes of Strength do not.

Removing the “gain might when struck” proc from the #4 would solve both of these issues while leaving them very strong contenders for offensive might-stacking builds. More defensive might-stacking builds may also pick them, but other (currently good) choices become much more attractive, creating an actual choice.

I can agree with this suggestion I don’t mind the runes as is but this is a good compromise.

maha.7902:

No underlying feelings, it’s just seeing you all make a cheap buck and fools buying it all up, and it’s just sad to watch. A bit how elaborate totems spiked months ago even though there’s like zero demand despite what was already there (which was low – so speculators just inflating it).

To add how do you make gold from s/tPvP by pumping a Rune?

WvW’ers try to apply it to their builds, obviously.

Then explain why Runes of the Pack are not a good Rune or as you put it “legit”.

I run 2/0/6/0/6 on my thief with Runes of the Pack for fury up time and synergy with thrill of the crime trait. I know other thieves that do the same. I rune 2/0/6/6/0 on my meditation guardian with pack runes because fury is hard to come by on a med guard unless you want to blow your meds with focused mind to get fury. Potato stated why he runs them on his Mesmer. You can make the case for elementalist not running Zephyr’s boon but needing fury and swiftness in WvW running a roaming spec.

It’s not like we said “Guys, try Rune of Citadel so you can bomb people”. Runes of Pack are “legit” as you put it.

The application of the Rune set and it’s benefits to s/tPvP and WvW builds is known. Saying it’s average because it’s not Strength is silly we are talking WvW and sPvP here not timed dps trials. That’s like saying Pre-Patch don’t run Lyssa because it’s not Scholar.

I don’t even know the OP of this thread I seen him post on the forums before, check the thief forums people mention pack runes, mentioned on guardian forums also I didn’t make those threads.

This is pointless anyway the Runes are good for WvW builds poster in here have stated as such and other profession forums agree. Just because it isn’t Strength doesn’t make it bad people trade damage for utility all the time otherwise nobody would run soldier runes, lyssa, hoelbrak, melandru or even traveler/speed. You are basically saying everyone not using strength is being a fool without giving any type of context as to why using pack makes you a fool.

Aberrant.6749:

Boon stripping is not plentiful enough to make these boons balanced.

Boon stripping is there just people aren’t traiting/building for it. Not every class has boon stripping ability but not every class has shouts either. That is what makes diverse classes a good thing.

From the wiki I count -

Boon Removal
Weapon skills- 2 mesmer weapon skills, 2 necromancer weapon skill,
Utility skills – 2 mesmer utility skills, 1 engineer utility skill

Profession mechanic
Engineer mine field

Elite
Necromancer Lich

Transfer
Larcenous strike

Convert boons 2 conditions
Necromancer WoC and Corrupt boon

Traits that remove boons
Searing Flames
Bountiful Theft
Acidic Elixirs
Shattered Concentration
Necromatic corruption

Equipment Sigil of Nullification

I don’t think every class should have plentiful boon removal that is what specializations are for. You don’t bring a Condi Mesmer for condition pressure you bring a necro or engi same concept here both of which also have boon removal abilities.

You don’t need to remove all the might all the time which I think some people are looking for, that would be a hard counter like diamond skin vs conditions. You just need to keep might low 5 stack of might and getting 7% modifier isn’t far off from 5 stack of might and a sigil of force.

Alot of accusations in your post which can easily be pointed right back at DnT. “Hey buy some Strength Runes before I post this video. You know every time we recommend something the price goes up” example seaweed salad, strength runes, truffle steak, etc…..

I am not saying that is what DnT did because I don’t have some DnT grudge and like Nike watch his stream occasionally, and messaged Grouch for Dekeyz sticky when Nike said Dekeyz deserves a sticky when I mentioned it in his strem. This would be easy to point the finger for Strength and say DnT loaded up prior to Nike’s video.

http://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/2356rc/dnt_dps_warrior_guide_for_dungeons_and_fractals/ Puts the post around 4/17

http://www.gw2tp.com/item/24714-superior-rune-of-strength check the price and stock prior to 17 April and after 17 April.

Again, I am not saying this is what DnT does just that it is easy to try and frame something as underhanded unless you have direct knowledge of a conversation taking place with evidence.

Feels like you have some underlying feelings toward us and are using this as a platform to vent. We can talk this out in game and you can vent just PM and I’ll listen so you can move on.

To add how do you make gold from s/tPvP by pumping a Rune?

Mattmatt.4962:

oZii.2864:

the most efficient set

You said it: “THE”
Not “one of the”

A balanced game always provides different option.
Well here it’s more about build diversity. But lack of build diveristy is just a consequence of imbalance

Please explain how you can “one of the” best DPS? Players do the Math crunch the numbers and give you the best DPS. There are 3 offensive stats in this game with power being the most important. How do you make all Direct Damage rune sets equal with out making them carbon copies of each other? Any category rune has this issue not just direct damage or power runes.

Look at vitality runes if I want damage I go Wurm how can rune of the Warrior or Exuberance compete with rune of Wurm?

You know the Rock Dog from runes of ogre does about 1k-1.5k? If the Rock Dog didn’t die so easily it would be more popular since the user doesn’t have to do anything for it to do damage.

It sounds easy to say make the other viable or nerf Strength, then you look and there are 3 offensive stat categories and 24 runes with a primary stat in those categories.

It’s the same issue with s/tPvP 5 roles 8 professions. Here you have 24 runes competing for 1 role Damage. The only way the runes can even compete for that damage role is Power, Precision, Ferocity or a Damage Modifier with precision and ferocity heavily at the mercy of Power.

I follow the over budget angle on the 4 piece it isn’t the only offender to be fair Krait, Balthazar, and Monk have double 4 piece bonuses.

Mattmatt.4962:

One thing we should notice is that 95% pvp player running power build use this rune … when there is no build diversity, its because something is OP.
(There is many other run providing the same amount of power by the way)

Just a though.

95% of the Bunker guardians have been running the same rune set for 2 years gotta be OP right? Popularity =/= OP it could just be the most efficient set so people run it.

I don’t know why so many people didn’t see power becoming more important then the other offensive stats. Power Double dips into white damage and critical strikes, precision just allows you more access to critical strike damage which needs power and crit damage. Crit damage doesn’t do anything if you don’t have Power and Precision. It’s so simple I just don’t even… If crit damage was nerfed further then power become even more of a better stat.

Blame ferocity nerf not allowing you to skimp on power like you could in the past. If the game shipped at launch with the ferocity changes we have now this would still be the case and strength runes would have ended up as a top rune. It was bugged forever which is why you didn’t see people use it before it was just fixed 6 months ago.

Are eagle runes considering the modifier at 50% health? That seems low for eagle

Buttercup.5871:

I have runes of strength, both in PvE and PvP, and find that they’re stupidly overpowered compared to any other rune. In PvP I actually went from being subpar in 1 vs 1 to winning 1 vs 2.

While I like winning, I’d rather have this imbalance fixed. Personally I think all other runes should be buffed instead, but I realize this is probably not feasible right now (Chinese launch sucks resources, which is understandable).

Alot of terrible in this post.

Nerf Runes of Strength because they are second best DPS rune behind scholar in a Optimal party.

Nerf Runes of Strength because you use to be bad at 1v1’s now win 1v2’s. (Pssh it’s not the Runes)

I’m sure Anet will get right on these pressing issues backed up by strong evidence.

Stop trying to paint the picture that you can’t be beat because you have the runes on.

maha.7902:

oZii.2864:

maha.7902:

Pack runes are just average runes a bunch of people from good fights stocked up on heavily and then told everyone was good so that they could unload theirs.

You don’t really think everyone in WvW is running Runes of Strength because they are one of the top PvE dps rune sets and work well in sPvP?

Not everyone has perma fury in their WvW builds, we or I posted about pack because they are a good rune set for WvW builds which was in my post on reddit and the profession forums. Thief, Guard, and Mesmer can make good use of Pack in WvW especially roaming. Sure if your running a GS and standing close to mirror blade, running might on shatter strength looks better but if you aren’t and have low crit chance pack is definitely a good option.

I saw the reddit thread and the guy made completely stupid assumptions for both rune sets to give a weak justification for pack runes. Then you all unloaded at the inflated price and made a nice profit.

You see, people recognise your guild name and get taken for suckers, but players with a few more brain cells realised that pack runes are still nothing special.

Lol you sound like a hater.

In the title of the thread it says This is more sPvP/WvW Focused. You can run anything you like in WvW.

Also Wandelaars is a very well known poster on Reddit and not in Good Fights he said he unloaded 100 Runes of the pack at the inflated price. Wolfineer endorsed Runes of the Pack on his engineer build and I don’t know him personally.

If you read the thread and weren’t so I don’t know upset you would read about 3-4 people say they had been sitting on a lot of Runes of the Pack.

There are 530 Runes of the Pack on the TP you really think we dumped a lot?

Enlighten me though as to why Runes of the Pack wouldn’t be good on any popular Guardian, Thief, or Mesmer WvW build?

You do know that I am the only person from my guild that really even posts/reads reddit? I also don’t flaunt my guild tag as some right of passage.

I don’t put my guild tag in the topics unlike DnT. Everyone follows DnT for PvE on reddit after Nike posted about Strength runes that made the price shoot up about 8 gold. I like Nike and DnT I pm’d Grouch for Dekeyz sticky in the Ele forums, but you seem bothered by my honest post.

See my other reddit posts.
http://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/1t0e88/psa_superior_rune_of_strength_fixedtested/

http://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/1t2jr5/psarune_of_rage_66_10_crit_dmgbugged/

http://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/1jtdd2/psa_new_superior_rune_of_perplexity_is_bugged/

Here is my whole submitted since your a fan: http://www.reddit.com/user/oZiix/submitted/

Obviously I went a entire year and conspired to cause the runes to rise in price. My PSA about fixed and bugged runes was to gain reddit confidence for over a year and then boom one fell swoop I cashed in. Lol.

As much as I love Reddit and reading it you can’t talk about 1 rune or sigil without people thinking your trying to pump and dump.

maha.7902:

Pack runes are just average runes a bunch of people from good fights stocked up on heavily and then told everyone was good so that they could unload theirs.

You don’t really think everyone in WvW is running Runes of Strength because they are one of the top PvE dps rune sets and work well in sPvP?

Not everyone has perma fury in their WvW builds, we or I posted about pack because they are a good rune set for WvW builds which was in my post on reddit and the profession forums. Thief, Guard, and Mesmer can make good use of Pack in WvW especially roaming. Sure if your running a GS and standing close to mirror blade, running might on shatter strength looks better but if you aren’t and have low crit chance pack is definitely a good option.

Rym.1469:

The moment I saw the thread, I thought about Thieves

That was my first thought 2 D/P thieves playing rotation stealth games. 2 PU zerk mesmers probably can last 4 minutes.

I smell a Nike warrior spec with Sw/Shield + GS here or something with a GS to kite and recover health. If you wanted to win vs a dps guard you grab a mace/shield and GS any other weapon set a warrior brings just doesn’t have the punch imo maybe Axe evis pressure but dps guard GS and Sword or even scepter can trade autos with a Warrior axe.

A med guard usually can hold it’s own against a warrior, if the warrior actually tries to fight it out the exception would be mace/shield GS is a very hard fight usually need scepter/focus and swap smite for stand your ground.

It is still a duel so it doesn’t hold alot of substance there are plenty of things to point to why a guardian can’t finish someone off the biggest is they don’t really have good soft cc like cripples. DPS guard damage is excellent but staying on the enemy is hard.

Balance isn’t out of wack because 2 heavies are trying to chop each other and kite when they are low to recover that isn’t a very good base argument.

What weapons where you running?

Bhawb.7408:

Uberkafros.5431:

VP should be baseline.I never really got why we loose lf while walking in ds.
Or even better we should not have DS degenerate when idle in it.We can have Life Blast cost some lifeforce to avoid perma lb spam, since the other abilities have CDs.

Originally it was a downed state replacement.

As it is now I think its fine. DS is very strong as a baseline ability, I sure notice it a lot more than most other F1-4 profession mechanics. It just needs better traiting options, like AoE blind on entry.

I thought about this the other day Dark Cloud or something similar, I don’t know how they would see aoe blind on entry combined with enfeeble and if that would be to strong.

It could compete with enfeeble if you place it in adept curses. If you place it in another line then you can get enfeeble and a blind on entry trait.

Swim.6830:

I am not comparing a class per class, I actually was listing the bigger picture, then a list was provided (thank you!) with all our defensive skills to see how it matches up.

Almost all of our active defenses are forcing us to play “defensive” which is fine, but a quick look at the cooldowns will show a grim picture compared to what every other class can do. And while we do have that little 300 extra range even as D/D, it is close to meaningless to the classes that can actually harm Eles the most and in PvP where you have to hold a point.

The long cooldowns are hardly an opinion as is the fact that most our defenses currently are very situational. Either or would be fine, but both is a bad combination.

The rest of the things mentioned are things traited, not inherent. It seems some people have gotten so used to THE ONE build that makes up for the lack of defenses, that everything else doesn’t matter anymore.

If we had comparable class defenses, imagine what builds people would be making (and I admit that THE ONE build will probably will have to be changed as well to not overpower Eles into mega bunkers).

If D/D was junk and S/D was junk and our only good sets where staff and D/F or S/F then would the picture look different?

Damage mitigation is protection, your example of Blurred frenzy is in most cases damage negating unless you have condis on you. Focus Earth 5 is straight up uncounterable negating damage which makes it really really strong because you can still do other things. That’s probably the most powerful weapon skill in the game tbh.

The one build is made up of traits to make it work not the weapon set. If your looking for damage mitigation for traits then your looking for earths embrace, elemental attunement, elemental shielding, frost aura, or just general reductions in damage.

Earth 5 on focus, blurred frenzy, burning speed during evade frames, blind during that attack, and dodge roll all negate damage or “I press this button and I take no damage”. Earths embrace, elemental shield, frost aura all mitigate damage or “I press this button and I take less damage”.

BlackBeard.2873:

I disagree with this statement for one reason – most meta specs don’t actually take any of the many sources of burning available (and don’t have to) because of this trait. In effect, it is serving the same purpose as dhuumfire was (although engineers have more access to control, mobility, and confusion, with fewer bleeds than necros). If most engineer specs had IP to make burning more reliable, your logic would work, but, at this point, IP is so strong and powerful that they forego all other sources of burning. To me, that is a problem.

I know that many engineers here are going to defend this trait vociferously, and nothing that is said will change their opinion. However, I do think it is good to raise some of the design issues that exist with this trait. Pretty much every class has similar design problems that could be brought up, and fixing them gradually would be an excellent thing to make this game more skill-based and fun to play.

If something is good or popular doesn’t mean it’s bad or broken. Lets look at our beloved Elementalist, How often do you see a Ele spec that doesn’t have elemental attunement? How about evasive arcana?

Anyway, the trait adds reliability to burning it is also in the trait line for nades and bombs so why wouldn’t you take it?
The other master tier traits aren’t better.
3 stacks of might on heal?
Short fuse? ok thats good but not needed
Explosive powder?

That is why people take IP if there was something better to take people probably would try it. If IP was tucked away deep into inventions I doubt anyone would reach for it.

Edit:
I just looked up some old quotes from Jon Peter on the December balance preview and he basically said the same thing. It was really good adept so they moved it up because the alternatives also didn’t beat IP. He also considers IP as a good Neutral Build trait. Which I agree it is in a line your going to go into and it works for power/condi builds.

More on topic about out skilling the trait which doesn’t happen for any proc.

Gokil.2543:

It hurts to read so much nonsense…

Firstly, no profession has as much condi cleanse and healing over time as the elementalist. Secondly, as Zelyhn said, we’re mid range, giving a massive advantage over melee opponents, and making us far harder to put damage in, due to the fact we don’t have to be on top of our opponent. Third, perma vigor. Fourth, please stop comparing ele to any other profession without looking at the big picture.

Seriously, stuff like ‘how come we don’t get stealth game is so unfair’ is really kitten painful for me to read.

I’m kind of on board with this. Comparing classes without considering class mechanic/traits is like comparing Lamborghini Gallardo to a Ford Focus just because they are cars.

The D/D ele not being technically melee is a pretty big advantage which you will appreciate when you hop on a Med Guard with Sw/Focu+GS and duel a Elementalist.

Dolores.5471:

Are you sure it’s 0/4/6/0/4? That shouldn’t be a problem, it is very simple to break the anti-condi ceiling (even on dire gear, really) and once you do that and get poison + weakness in most diamond skin eles will fall, specially in a build like that.

I didn’t ask but I was hit by lighting strike from a diamond skin that was only build I could think of. Breaking it isn’t really a issue I can life blast it but the invuln on focus swirling winds makes it hard to keep it down and of course you would take rock solid and ether. One ele says he runs it 0/0/6/4/4.

I don’t even run focus but when I went out in 0/4/6/0/4 on my Ele to try focus I didn’t really have a problem until I got to about half health anything above that wasn’t hard to recover the HP.

Well grats Ash condi ele has become popular or blackgate just so happens to like condi ele. I never seen so many Diamond skin condition elementalist since this week. I can’t do anything on my necro until someone breaks it. Blackgate seems to like D/F though for their condi ele builds. The spec I see them running is 0/4/6/0/4.

Rennoko.5731:

I don’t know about that… it actually represents a lot of extra survival. If you think about spending 10 seconds in DS doing different things, it really does add up. That 10 seconds is 20% of your LF saved by VP. If you have 25k HP, that is 5000 HP you saved, which is more or less an extra heal.

I still prefer 15% shorter cooldowns

I thought it was all in my head I tried it in my new condi setup and I could notice right away a difference and I feel tankier. I always ran 4 in DM for greater marks and I don’t think me going 6 DM made that much of a difference maybe it’s the bigger Pool but it’s only 3k more then what I had before.

It’s a really awesome trait I was trying to decide between CD and VP and after using VP for a few minutes VP won hands down for me.

3k armor seems to be a thing but I would skim that down to about 2.8-2.9k and try to squeeze some more damage in there.