Guild Wars 2

I don’t understand how this word is used on these forums. It seems like OP means it’s good when OP is suppose to be overpowered, broken, game breaking, mode breaking, unbeatable.

Example on this very forum.

Sasajoe.1509:

warrior / thief … for wvw they r just too op

I’m not calling this specific person out just using this as an example, but this is a general use of the term “OP” I see on gw2 forums a lot. When I read this I see him saying Warrior/Thief are to overpowered compared to something else that is also overpowered. It also implies to me that their is an acceptable level of overpowered.

So what does OP mean now?

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/external?l=http%3A%2F%2Fen.gw2skills.net%2Feditor%2F%3FfFAQJAoYhcMqcW4wzBf0APAC5fD3JKQ5qJfC-TlTBAB0s%2FQYKF4SZAf6AGVVF0UCelSkuUS0xJAoS1CKTJEiaBwUFCAeAABAQAuZbGADdoDdoDdoVnD9m38mlC4plRA-w

Is a shell build that works doesn’t have to be exact to this just hit close to 2.6k armor, close to 2k power if you can, 30% crit chance (pre fury), and 16k hp. Fill in your gear for what you like but those are the usual marks to hit for d/d roaming.

Yes it is viable to roam you won’t be 1vXing to many good players but that goes for any class.

johnpoc.8732:

You can go standard 0/2/0/6/6 or 0/0/2/6/6 with a mix of celestial/knights/cavalier. Works really well now that celestial has been buffed. Runes of strength and sigil of battle + your choice (i’m trying out sigil of intelligence atm).

This is Intigo’s build (prolly one of the best eles I’ve seen): http://en.gw2skills.net/editor/?vEAQJAoYhcMqcW4wzBf0AA5hLmUiowDlH5MjNA-zEDBYgAYjgkIgUBAJfgpmBKRVZtypIasabYKXJWDDQFLqBAQAuZbGADdoDdoFa38m38m38mlCgJlRA-w

I think that is intigo’s old build his new build has 1 cleric ring in it. He usually links his new build on his youtube home page.

Edit:

This is his updated build

http://en.gw2skills.net/editor/?fFAQJAoYhcMqcW4wzBf0APAC5fD3JKQ5qJfC-TlTBAB0s/QYKF4SZAf6AGVVF0UCelSkuUS0xJAoS1CKTJEiaBwUFCAeAABAQAuZbGADdoDdoDdoVnD9m38mlC4plRA-w

Yusei.1370:

I love to solo roam in wvw with my thief doing 1v1s or 1vX fights i always have fun. Then i will also like to disengage or escape when i see a zerg or see to many players headed my way. Recently I love playing an Ele and I would like to see or know a build which can solo Roam pretty well in wvw. I will be look forward for the build all the ele Players will be putting forward.

Any standard D/D build will work then you change it how you want on the mobility front I think 20 air with aeromancer’s alacrity to be a great choice trait and it gives you shocking aura faster to help your defense.

To break it down even further you ran D/D which you should survive against a guardian anyway. I didn’t seem to notice you saying you killed the guardian with that build, and you took on a S/D fresh air build with D/D.

I don’t understand your test or this example because the same results would have happened if you ran D/D direct.

Swim.6830:

oZii.2864:

Is there just a little to much value being put into strength’s modifier?

I been reading around the forums people are putting on a sigil of strength to get guaranteed might so they have the modifier, changing from dps focused foods to might on dodge. This makes no sense when you should take something like sigil of force or air as long as you can produce 1 stack of might on your own unless your getting good mileage out of that condition damage. Seems like some strange choices people are doing. Trying to build around the modifier and the rune instead of just building like they normally would and adding the rune to get more damage.

The food is a WvW thing but sigils applies to s/tPvP if your running strength runes you really shouldn’t be giving up damage modifiers like force so you can get some might so you take a strength sigil instead.

While I am not personally building around the runes, not everyone can crit reliably for the air. And depending on the build – 9 stacks of might is better than 5% extra damage for instance.

Of course I totally agree but that’s if you are getting the might stacks naturally. If your going with battle for instance it will take you 3 weapon swaps for battle to give you 9 stacks of might. If you don’t have the crit chance to hit air reliably then you probably don’t have it to hit strength sigil reliably either so the sigil of force is probably better.

Terrahero.9358:

Harper.4173:

As far as people clamoring to a single rune – hasn’t this always been the case?

And didnt we just go through a massive rune/sigil rebalance, that has cost many players a ton of gold and a lot of headache, has nerfed or broken various builds, exactly because they wanted to shake up gear upgrades?

If all we end up with is the same old thing, then what was the point?

That sounds so easy but I haven’t seen a single thread with a full rune suggestion or someone that just takes power runes or precision runes to make them better instead it’s nerf strength runes.

You are always going to have the best and that will change over time. GW2 theorycrafting is so fleshed out that you can see 1 second after the patch hit read the notes and see strength was a good dps rune set. The question is how much more dps does it provide over the alternatives which also hasn’t been fleshed out in PvP which is also hard to do. In PvE we know it’s scholar but that assumes things like 25 stacks of might perma fury etc….. So all that really matters is the modifier, in PvP I haven’t seen much on dps difference with realistic might compared to the next dps rune contender.

Rune of strength doesn’t make you automatically win vs someone running ogre this isn’t PvE so I don’t know why people assume they are running around with 25 stacks of might, perma fury full zerk with all the modifiers they can squeeze in their builds.

Just thinking about a standard build for sPvP a Thief is going to use strength runes differently then a ele or warrior will and they will get different benefits they will also get different damage. A 2/6/0/0/6 S/D thief is doing more damage then a 0/0/2/6/6 Ele but the ele is getting some condi damage with that where the thief is getting direct damage and has more modifiers in that build then the Ele. Same rune but how damage is delivered and how much is different. It’s about the builds and not the Runes if the ele and the thief both had on rune of the water it would be the same thing.

Andele.1306:

I dont get what you actually mean, but a thief can keep 10 stacks of torment and confusion on a person with perplexity runes on p/d (bleeds torment and gap creation) s/p (initial gap closer with daze spam and reliable condi removal/anti cc) combo and sigil of torment procs…

A best case scenario against someone who doesn’t know anything about the game at all. 10 stacks of torment really? Anyone that knows anything about a P/D thief knows the condi spike is at the beginning and the thief is moving toward you to A: cloak and dagger or B: Shadow Strike.

It isn’t easy to put 10 stacks of torment on someone that knows what they are doing. 10/15 – stacks of confusion? Who are you people fighting seriously. A condi S/P thief does that even work on anybody that knows to not attack the thief during evade frames and spamming pistol whip?

Here is a chart that was posted on Reddit actually not to long after patch. This assumes permanent fury and 25 stacks of might.

http://i.imgur.com/Y9Ku6tQ.png

So if you where to apply this to a thief you can get might easily if you take 2 in acro or 5 in SA you can get fury easily if you take 2 trick or 2 in Critical Strikes. So if you have permanent fury say you are running at least furious retaliation and at least thrill of the crime then you can throw fury out the window.

So then you want a modifier strength will give you that easily if you have might on dodge or 5 SA, or signets of power. What you shouldn’t do is drop your modifier so that you can get might like taking dodge roll food which is decreasing your dps instead of running a standard dps food like power/precision which is usually around a 6% dps increase for most classes. If you can get the sigil of strength+force then that’s good but don’t drop a sigil of force for strength so that you can have the modifier. If you look at that chart the dps difference between strength and eagle or ogre isn’t that big like 1-2% dps difference.

1 might stack might only give you 1% extra damage. Instead you want to just get to the modifier with natural might stack from your build and also stack another modifier on top of it like force. Don’t put on sigil of battle because you have runes of strength on put on a sigil of force because you have a 7% damage modifer and you want to stack another modifier because that is always more damage or a sigil of air but the difference in dps between force and air is small but force is more consistent since it doesn’t rely on crits and doesn’t have a icd.

Really in PvP/WvW people are a little to caught up on either strengths modifier or strengths might stacking. The modifier is great and the might stacking is great but don’t remove damage just because your getting an additional 45% might duration. You want to get the might as naturally as possible in your build then to “try” and get might. For instance I would take strength runes on my guardian with 5 in valor because I am always going to block something but I’m not going to put on a sigil of strength and some might dodge food. I went from Pack to Strength back to Pack on my guardian because I need the fury more for solo roaming but this is if I was to build with strength runes as my runes of choice.

PvE theorycrafting is alot easier then PvP because PvP is unpredictable so the best thing to do is to look at your build and look at the most likely scenario in your fight. Don’t use the best case scenario for PvP theorycrafting where the enemy lets you dodge around all day long stacking might or you chilled in shadow refuge, 5,2,1 with d/p till you had no ini, blew dodge rolls for might stacks and came out with 20 stacks of might for a 15k backstab. That is kind of what I did in my analysis for thief with pack runes which I still think are a good rune for thief.

Seems fair since right now if you’re not in combat they could remove a condition at the start or 10 seconds later since it is always cycling. This way it feels a bit more like a solid choice and more reliable.

Is there just a little to much value being put into strength’s modifier?

I been reading around the forums people are putting on a sigil of strength to get guaranteed might so they have the modifier, changing from dps focused foods to might on dodge. This makes no sense when you should take something like sigil of force or air as long as you can produce 1 stack of might on your own unless your getting good mileage out of that condition damage. Seems like some strange choices people are doing. Trying to build around the modifier and the rune instead of just building like they normally would and adding the rune to get more damage.

The food is a WvW thing but sigils applies to s/tPvP if your running strength runes you really shouldn’t be giving up damage modifiers like force so you can get some might so you take a strength sigil instead.

RushandCash.7835:

i mean some classes is weak to worrior but strong to thief. i want to know class which don’t have situation like that..

All classes have strengths and weaknesses vs another class.

Shockwave.1230:

There’s a simple sounding solution to this might problem, that is actually quite complicated.

The priority of the boon for removal needs to scale with the amount of stacks and duration.

For example, when might gets up towards 12 stacks that are lasting for 15 seconds. I’d rather remove might from an ele than their protection that lasts for 7 seconds. When it gets up towards 20 stacks with a 15+ second duration, I’d rather pull down those might stacks than 8 seconds of stability.

I was talking to my guild mate and he says that it seems certain skills do function that way I believe Arcane Thievery does as we where talking about this topic last night. I’ll ask him and we will test it later in the mist. He said it could be possible sigil of nullification functions this way. I was messing around on my guardian with the Searing flames trait fighting a Strength rune ele in a duel and by the end of the fight he had no boons left but I didn’t pay attention to the priority.

Edit: The skill he was referring to was mindstab on mesmer GS.

It’s fine if it isn’t your cup of tea. Why it’s always best to see/test something before you actually dismiss/ask for nerfs (common on the gw2 forums).

I fought Frowny on his condi ele back in the day I was skeptical (I didn’t call him out on the forums or anything like that). I lost to him majority of the time the condi pressure is good. It isn’t a necro or a engineer running conditions but a necro or engineer isn’t a ele or a warrior running power different classes with different mechanics.

It’s 3 guards and 3 guards working together is tough to kill especially if they built right same thing happens when you put guards and d/d eles together or guards and warriors.

Mystogan.4157:

Hawkeye.9687:

I agree with the above posts S/D 10-0-0-30-30 Pack runes is realy fun to play AND very effective .Zerg weapons , Valk armor, Zerg/Valk trinkets .Lots of evades and damage

I love the mobile non stealth thief .

im jst afraid of losing dmg if i go pack I’ve yet to try it

Then why don’t you actually do some real theorycrafting? See how much might you get with pack, how much you get with strength then check the difference in effective power with the damage modifier. Really the biggest difference you will see on the thief is the 7% damage modifier when you have might. You probably wouldn’t even notice much difference if your going off feel, you would see more big red numbers with pack because of fury. Well you went strength so point is moot now really.

http://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/24tzjz/a_look_at_runes_of_the_pack/ this was a post I did on reddit just comparing Pack and Strength for WvW/sPvP use it’s only a few days old. It’s why Pack started to rise in price.

This whole might thing really doesn’t get much traction. I think most people are fine with the current setup or at least looking to the available counters in game first before they hit DEFCON 1 and come to the forums.

I think there might be some people that have a problem with the might stacking and/or strength runes but usually this kind topic disappears from the first page within a few days. Good luck though.

Graendall.4765:

A stealth class that cannot be seen and used to crit for 10k on 2.8k armor is a cheat class with no particular skill.Most infuriating thing is watching couples of berserker thiefs jumping out of nowhere ganking you and then dancing on you.

You have to much value in armor back stab is unexpected damage so that is where vit is more important. If it was 10k on your 2.8k armor it would probably be 10.3k on a 2.7k armor target and 9.8k on a 29k armor target I just threw those out there but it’s probably not far off. Where your 2.8k shines against a 2.7k armor is the amount of hits it takes before you die especially lots of smaller hits.

Flame thrower has good potential but it feels like it doesn’t know what it is. I can see it in a hybrid build because it’s hybrid damage.

Ft1- Will kill you on retal burn should be at beginning
Ft2- buggy
Ft3- I find is really strong ability with low cooldown
Ft4- fire field nothing really more then that.
Ft5- area is small doesn’t feel like it offers a ton of utility I think a 2 sec field is fair.

I like Ft alot but I usually end up back with bombs or nades after playing with it for any length of time.

The real question is why do threads pop up constantly comparing classes and omitting specific class mechanics in the post. It’s obvious why ele and engi only has 2 weapon sigils.

Your suggestion is broken all stats per stack of might means might then makes you take less damage, have higher hp, have higher crit chance, heal more, while still getting some power/and condition damage.

Mystogan.4157:

Imo they need to nerf str runes, as of now they are at the top of the food chain, running full str runs grants perm might with about 15-25 stacks. no other rune set other then maybe holbrek with battle/ might sigils can do this. it just makes all other runes not viable. like wurm, scholars only good if you never get hit, and even ogre. I’m hoping they do nerd them so then we can have more options then being pigeon hole’d in to a runes set jstu because nothing can match it.

Power was always the best stat in most cases if you had to chose a offensive stat. The nerf to ferocity/crit damage makes power more important. Since they just made this change it won’t be reverted and it won’t change that power is still the most important stat.

The problem with alot of the runes that don’t have power as a main stat is that well they don’t have power as a main stat.

Not sure what you use this for though PvE or sPvP or WvW. In PvE it was the same as before a best rune which was scholar for organized parties, orbs or ogre if your puggin it up with non organized. Now it’s Scholar as the best for organized, strength for pugging with not a big drop from scholar, then whatever else after I think orbs are still the best after strength IIRC for PvE.

sPvP/WvW it’s strength because scholar is unrealistic to maintain that modifier. I think pack is better on a thief in WvW though. A perma fury thief is deadly and you get the 175 power, and 6 crit chance.

On a thief in WvW you might as well assume with pack +175 power +525 precision since you will have +20% crit chance just about every fight for it’s duration.

Mystogan.4157:

I have sustain need more deeps and im at 220% crit dmg? Jst power is 1.8k

This use to work stack alot of crit damage skimp on power still put out good damage. That doesn’t work anymore because of the ferocity change and has less really to do with strength runes.

You need modifiers>power>precision>ferocity. Run seaweed salad and get yourself +10% damage while moving it’s more damage then any other food in the game it just doesn’t make your hero panel look pretty.

Fox.3562:

keenlam.4753:

Fox.3562:

Pack Runes are definitely my favorite rune post-patch. I’ve tried Strength, but since your phantasms don’t benefit from your might stacks, it really doesn’t increase your DPS much IMO.

Pack runes give you fury, which you can’t easily get otherwise, better raw stats (same power and 6% more crit chance than strength runes) and really high swiftness uptime with staff from chaos armor and chaos storm. Running around with a friend who has the runes too is a big threat since you can easily maintain perma fury and swiftness as long as you’re bulky enough to sponge 4 hits every 20 seconds.

EDIT: and Citadel runes are basically just a worse version of pack runes. No swiftness, no might, and 6% less critical chance from the raw stats. The bomb can hit like 1.5k on a crit, but it tends to reveal you while you’re stealthed more than it does useful damage. And trust me, I wanted runes of the Citadel to be good, I had 1.3k of them before the patch came out.

Just want to point out a few things
Might boon increases your main stats (power & condition damage) and since illusions borrow mesmer main stats —> your phantasms do benefit from your might stacks.
Fury boon, on the other hand, doesn’t affect phantasms crit chance.

Maybe it’s supposed to (I do remember reading that in patch notes a lonnnnng time ago) but I’m 95% sure it does not. I tried it in sPvP with 18 stacks of might on just me, and it didn’t increase my duellist’s damage at all. Then I put 18 stacks of might on just my duellist and he hit significantly harder (as he should).

Me and Pot tested on my ele I supplied the might stacks. Can confirm

Amonatory.2453:

oZii.2864:

Alot of wasted dodge rolls because it looks cool flip dodging. I know there is a slight distant advantage to jump dodging it’s even stated on the wiki (I think some people do it cause it looks cool). Still hate seeing wasted dodges like that usually after every CnD you would jump dodge even if there was no threat especially in your condi footage.

Other than that good video.

I do dodges just like that too, I call it a safety dodge haha.

That’s cause you double tap.

The best advice is to learn other classes, what they are trying to accomplish, their mechanics, their important skills to dodge.

Right now 0/0/2/6/6 is popular in running that with D/D or Staff. Still I would put equal value on learning the other classes just as much as your own. Either practice ask on their subforum(people will usually tell you how to fight X class/build).

Just make sure you clarify that your asking about s/tPvP not solo roaming and dueling because nobody solo roams on hambow warrior really but you will see hambow all day in s/tPvP.

bigmonto.4215:

Tim.6450:

Cufufalating.8479:

bigmonto.4215:

While you are right about being able to negate a lot of condition damage, your conditional opponent will almost always be tougher and have more health than you do.

This is the amusing thing though.. We all know ignoring toughness is one of condition damages biggest strengths, but it can also become a weakness by the fact that a full berserker player is not nessesarily squishy.

You can go 100% full offensive stats vs a condi bunker with no side effects from poor defence, as long as you pack enough condi removal, and suddenly it means nothing that they are tankier than you.

In short – full zerker is harder to beat than full soliders on a condition build. Stop trying to “out tank” builds which are by design tanky and good vs other tanks because all you are doing is playing their game.

this +1. This is the true counter to condition damage go zerker since the condition user loses damage/second (on an average point of view) through the shorter fight.

Wait what? I doubt it. You should try that next time. Be a full zerker against a PU Mesmer, or Necro or Engineer or anyone, they will just put condition on you and kite you around until you die.

Hack my conditional warrior can dish out around 4k worth of damage per sec on conditions alone. Not only that I have around 25k health with 3.2k armor + around 6k on-demand healing every 20s plus >400 healing per sec. Even if I can’t face tank you, I still kite you around with a LB. You have to dodge everything perfectly to win the battle.

The whole kiting thing works if you’re to bloodlusted to see that you are being kited.

Look at your example and this is what kills me about this discussion Power builds are looked at individually for each type of build but condi builds are all in the same boat. If you think a PU mesmer, Necro, and Engineer play and use conditions remotely the same then the problem is that you don’t know those classes, their mechanics and how each condition build works like it’s strength and weakness.

When someone makes a QQ thread bout thieves being OP I bet they don’t say the thief has a greatsword, dogged march, and cleansing ire. We should nerf thieves healing signet and adrenal health.

Warrior needs to be nerfed because of it’s backstab, insane regen in stealth, and it’s clones. See how silly it looks if we did that with direct damage QQ.

A PU mesmer is weak to conditions, a Engineer condi build is weak to conditions, a Necromancer is much much more resistant to conditions then either of the them and will eat the other 2 alive. With just the right weapons a POWER Necro is just as strong as the Condi necro because you know a Necro is different then a Engineer and Mesmer before you even get to the actual build.

Cufufalating.8479:

This is the amusing thing though.. We all know ignoring toughness is one of condition damages biggest strengths, but it can also become a weakness by the fact that a full berserker player is not nessesarily squishy.

You can go 100% full offensive stats vs a condi bunker with no side effects from poor defence, as long as you pack enough condi removal, and suddenly it means nothing that they are tankier than you.

In short – full zerker is harder to beat than full soliders on a condition build. Stop trying to “out tank” builds which are by design tanky and good vs other tanks because all you are doing is playing their game.

Another +1 when you run a condition build your biggest threat isn’t the person running soldiers or clerics it’s the guy in full zerk no matter the class or build.

Condi builds threat:

A: Glassy Med guards, backstab thieves, glass mesmers, pew pew long bow rangers, warriors, killshot warriors, life blast necros, S/D eles.

The non threats:

B: It’s not the immortal guardian, bunker ele, retal mesmer, regen ranger, healing bomb engi, shout healz/banner commader build sword/warhorn warrior.

C: Is the build that want’s to be A, thinks it has A damage but built in some of B which means there is no way it can be A.

C: is where 9/10 popular roaming builds fall into you can’t build to beat everything. Usually builds called “Tanky DPS”

Not really against removing it but I feel that 10% is to low I think 20% is fine. I just brought up some cases and things to consider.

I know personally I use to be all about -40% condition duration food. I ran it on my Ele, Warrior, Guardian, and Mesmer. What I came to realize is that running the food weakens your build and causes you to try and fight the attrition fight. Now I run damage food because against most condition builds as a direct damage build it is 9/10 better to kill them before they kill you and apply alot of pressure. So I don’t run -condi food anymore this is even small scale/solo roaming.

When I play my condi necro the biggest threat are bursty mesmers, thieves, and warriors basically whoever can get through my deathshroud the fastest. That is when I came to realize to just run dps food on my other classes when fighting condi builds.

I just think 10% is to low for how weak condi is when you get in larger fights.

I think we are missing something here. When organized groups are roaming they don’t really need -duration food because the cleanses that are going off are enough s/tPvP is evidence of this.

If you nerf overall duration of the food to +/- 10% then automatically the condition specific foods win. So you have +15% to burning, poison, and chill what will happen is that removal will become more powerful because of certain skills and traits that remove burning, poison, and chill, and certain runes/traits that reduce cripple, chill, immobilze. Which means that cleanses get to bleeds or burning faster reducing the damage a condition build can do by alot.

Example:

If I am on my engi and I have every condi on me in the game running turret and rocket boots. I should use the rocket boots first to remove cripple, chill, immobilze then drop turret for cleansing blast to possibly remove 2 more possibly dps conditions as a real world scenario. I can do this every 20 seconds untraited this makes my engi’s life easier because condi engi is weak to conditions.

If your anti-condi camp to the core then this would be great news for you but overall it would make condition builds much weaker.

I don’t know I think there is more to consider because in large fights you don’t even need to run the reduction food because condis just aren’t a problem.

Comparing it to stat line I don’t think is the correct way to look at it then your trying to compare kill speeds of direct vs condi. If you took a naked profession and gave him 100 power and 70 ferocity will he kill faster then the 40% condition duration 70 condi damage guy? That stats aren’t the same so the food shouldn’t be compared to 100 power and 70 precision or whatever is the case. Fundamentally they don’t function the same one gives instant returns the other you might not see any returns on it at all.

StickerHappy.8052:

is the bomb on citadel the exploding one that launches or kbs?

It’s just a little bomb i think like the engineer bomb auto

Jski.6180:

Magi or cestale armor and trinkets is good for a full healing ele it evens out your ability to stay alive though you lose some healing ability if you go cestale but you get some ability to do dmg and last much longer. I would like to see the calculation for a full cestale ele build with the healing support mind sets.

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fFAQFAWhMMqc25wwBr0AhAG5NQHoBOKAUuGUCWBA-T1xGwAAuAAqU/5pyP56AGu/AhHAAUlgkCYUhRA-w

A fast build i put togeater it has about 1110 healing power with good hp and def its power and crit dmg is a bit lacking but it still should hit avg. dmg.

Switching to water rolls and water blast should heal others for about 2506 the reg from switching to water will heal others for 2542. Water 1: 877 Water 3: 4396 Water 5: 5447 and just being in water should give over 10 sec 1829.

The self heal will just be 35% less but it should be high enofe to keep the ele up though most burst the only problem with this build is that it needs to stay in water for a long time so you may lose other cc but once you get your timing worked out i think this will be a good support build that can last and do some level of dmg.

It’s simple to figure out take your out going heal *1.35

Blast – 3383
Swap to Water – 3431
Water 1 – 1183
Water 3 – 5936
Water 5 – 7354
Staying in water attunement – 2469 over 10 seconds

Arken.3725:

Alright, lets take a look at the Majors:

Valor:

Glacial Heart: RNG based, long ICD. This felt like a poor attempt at giving the Guardian much needed soft-cc.

Focused Mind: A borderline useless one in the sense that since meditations are selfish builds, shouldn’t the effectiveness of the boons applied be stronger? A mere 4 seconds of fury when 3/4 of the meditations are on long cd’s doesn’t make much sense to me.

Honor:

Empowering Might: The ICD is what makes this trait useless. Now granted if it was removed, it could become op. Other options are far better in my opinion.

Force of Will: Just a very plain and boring trait to help Guardian’s deal with the low health issue. Seems very similar to the poor attempt at soft-cc.

These are just the ones I wanted to comment on the rest I agree with you.

Glacial Heart – 50% on Crit is pretty reliable, it’s aoe up to 5 targets, with a 4 second base chill which is very long. The icd is long though and you have no way to reduce it, maybe if two-hand mastery reduced this trait since it is with hammer it could see more use. It would then be 24 second cooldown for a 4 second base chill. I think it has potential to be powerful if you just went with base duration sigil of ice+hydro+glacial you could chill someone for 8 seconds thats with no duration investment.

Focused Mind – I agree with this one 4 seconds is short I think a bump up to 5 maybe 6 seconds would be better. 2 of the meditations are offensive in nature the rest are defensive with long cooldowns so 4 seconds is a bit to short. If you popped meds off cooldown with 20 virtues it’s about 50% uptime on fury but many times you aren’t just blowing them especially COP.

Empowering Might – Agree it could it’s not necessarily a bad trait it’s similar to Forceful great sword but that is tied to a weapon with cd reduction. Not sure how I feel about this one tbh.

Force of Will – It is bland yes but I personally like this trait it’s raw stats and raw stats are never a bad thing. If it was 300 power, Ferocity, or Precision I think people wouldn’t be so down on it.

Sarrs.4831:

oZii.2864:

Is whats missing a healer for the trinity to happen?

• Go make a Ele Aqua Benevolence
• Grab Guard for tanking
• Figure out the definitive answer on the Aggro system.
• Profit?

Probably should figure out the Aggro system then grab a guard and ele later.

how to tank in gw2:
guardian hammer
use your 5 skill
ask ANet really nicely to delete Defiance
done!

Serious, though, the game doesn’t need “heal/tank/dps”. It needs “support/control/damage”; the alternate trinity which was put forward as a model during the early game development. I’m not surprised it didn’t do as well as was expected, because a heal/tank/dps game is easy to make because EQ and WoW have sorted it all out, but it would be nice if dungeons were refined a bit more to actually conform to how small-scale PVE is supposed to operate.

I agree the AI mechanics need to be changed I am not a fan of trinity at all. The issue isn’t even that you can’t build trinity style it’s that the mechanics make it so it isn’t necessary. You already have your own heal to begin with why would you need a healer if your doing what your suppose to? You can build trinity like in your group if that is your thing but nobody is “looking for healz” on the lfg. Trinity with your guild and friends.

LordByron.8369:

being able to do that means being almost full dps (something i am actually) but in that case it still depends on thief evasion.

I can even go fire 3-4-5, earth 4 etc….but its still doesn t depend from the attacker.

There are videos of 5-10 people in WWW mashing on a SR and still unable to kill a thief.

That is true it’s getting healing from SR also+Shadow rejuvenation+ some thieves are running shadow protector for regen. If you take those traits your hps is pretty crazy on a thief.

Is whats missing a healer for the trinity to happen?

• Go make a Ele Aqua Benevolence
• Grab Guard for tanking
• Figure out the definitive answer on the Aggro system.
• Profit?

Probably should figure out the Aggro system then grab a guard and ele later.

It’s a dueling build as you saw in high level s/tPvP from the ToL conditions get no love because the organized teams know how to counter them. If your in a dueling server, hotjoining sure go ahead build to win 1v1’s thats what alot of people are doing thats why you win because your 1v1 build is better then their 1v1 build.

I like the new trait and there are 2 ways to look at it. You go all out healing clerics as you have outlined in the OP.

You also can just take the trait, some monk runes, the sigil, and dps gear and heal your party pretty good.

Monk runes + Full Zerk 475 healing power.
http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fFAQFAGC4EBITA-TVBXgAAK/C1BIs/Qv6PPKBBA-w

With Monk Runes, Benevolence Sigil, and Aqua Benevolence Trait This should net you a 4100/2 sec Geyser with FULL ZERKER

How much clerics do you need to get a 4100 Geyser? I don’t know but 1624 healing power in full clerics and life stacks won’t do it. As you can see for yourself. 3642/2sec

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fFAQFAGC4EBITA-TlRDABGqEEOdAXq+TU7PklyPAeAAAA-w

That is the real power imo it is a really strong trait it isn’t selfish but the party support is great.

Not my cup of tea always found condition eles to be a surprise because I don’t expect it. I have died to them before because I didn’t expect the build to be condi. Usually I don’t have much trouble with them though on any of my other classes once I realize it’s a condi Ele. They are good against condi engi’s because condi engis are weak against condi’s in general.

I tried it once but wasn’t a fan personally.

LordByron.8369:

The fact DD ele lacks untargeted pull/push, and thief can still dodge and heals, makes SR uncounterable unless the thief is bad .-.

Once you have stealth stacks for 12 seconds. doesn t matters how many HP you have left….you can go wherever you want.

The best thing to do when they go in SR is lightning whip spam it which is good threatening dps and your shocking aura should be getting ready to come up. For when he engages again.

Alot of wasted dodge rolls because it looks cool flip dodging. I know there is a slight distant advantage to jump dodging it’s even stated on the wiki (I think some people do it cause it looks cool). Still hate seeing wasted dodges like that usually after every CnD you would jump dodge even if there was no threat especially in your condi footage.

Other than that good video.

MauricioCezar.2673:

Why Blink is so more OP than lightning flash?

The only time I have had lightning flash not function properly is if you do it with burning speed which is a issue with burning speed not lightning flash.

Also what is this?

MauricioCezar.2673:

Why Blink is so more OP than lightning flash?

What does that mean? It really bothers me about gw2 forum in general. More OP means both skills are OP as in overpowered, which means it isn’t balanced and over performing. You are basically saying Blink is broken and lightning flash is broken but not as broken blink so it’s a problem.

Can we stop using OP to describe something we find good? Why can’t we just say something like “Why is blink better then Lightning Flash?” obviously that is your opinion but it makes sense.

Why is google more OP then yahoo?
/rant

Ezeriel.9574:

Ganking is Gang Killing. It was popular in WoW, as one person would be bait, and if you attacked them five rogues (thieves) would attack you from stealth for an instant kill.

…but they didn’t need five, one would do, as rogues could stunlock a person from full health to dead, by themselves. It was however much harder to do alone, so they usually traveled in pairs.

..and it sucked all the fun out of the game. Players traveled in zergs, and people whined endlessly about zergs. Sound familiar?

So Anet promised it’s player base that, that wouldn’t happen in GW2, but it did. You can’t go anywhere without a zerg in WvW, ganking is everywhere.

Gank spec’s that are popular… CnD thief, P/D condi thief, shattercat mesmer (now with condition damage), condi engineer…. and hammer warriors can stunlock you, from full health to dead, but it’s hard to do, so they travel in pairs.

If you’re not one of those classes, and you see one of those classes, you might just as well lay down and die.

This video applies to GW2 more and more everyday….

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S6h7nOYggik

Ahh I see what your saying well your referring to builds not really classes. The options are going out by yourself or a small group so I don’t really understand. So it’s either a 1v1 issue or group issue. Some of the specs you named can be annoying like the p/d condi thief but many of those can be ignored unless your running around on a necromancer.

Rage is kind of meh and out classes by pack all day long. I wouldn’t be surprised if rune of citadel and rage had similar numbers since citadel gives power and fury but a bomb is meh.

I would go pack on Mesmer

Rune of the pack, rune of strength, rune of flame legion- mediation or shout Dps. Flame legion I feel needs defenders flame IMO it shines with that trait and gets you the burn uptime to use the modifier.

I have a set with pack and strength prefer strength tried flame legion today and thought it was great for a cheaper strength alternative.

Melandru or hoelbrak for condition management.

perko.8309:

+40% condi duration and +70 Condi damage food is like no other. There’s no other food that gives that bang for the buck. Most foods grant 170 stat pts. What condi build wouldn’t give up 100 stat pts for +40% condi duration?
To be fair, the -40% condition duration food should be reduced equally as well. I think if it were +/- 20% it would retain a high degree of usefulness, but not be over the top.
Thoughts?

It’s only thought to be “OP” in 1v1’s and small scale. In larger fights your better off going for damage because nothing lasts long enough to get mileage out of it. This is more dueling/solo roaming and doesn’t really do much in the grand scheme of things.

There are many foods you could make the case to remove(probably all of them tbh) for direct and condition builds. Direct damage foods or ones usually used by direct damage builds can be viewed the same way.

Seaweed salad +10% damage while moving

• + sigil of force + a 10% damage modifier trait like guardian elusive power + fiery wrath these are very easy to meet requirements. 1.10*1.10*1.10*1.05= 1.39

• So as you can see it is very easy to get +40% damage for just about any class or close to it. It’s 27% if you remove the food and 49% if you added another 7% modifier like rune of strength.

Mango pie – thats 80 healing per second you would have to invest 80 stat points into a heal that scales 1.0 in order to get that return.

Life steal food – you heal for 352 and do 352 damage on a 1 sec icd this is potentially alot more damage then power/ferocity food gives you if you have high enough crit chance and it ignores armor, protection, endure pain.

Omnomberry cream – +20% boon duration not much explanation needed here.

You can make the case for just about any food in the game tbh so it really should be keep them as is or remove them all.

Ezeriel.9574:

Far, far too many gank specs

It’s almost as though the devs only play Spvp, and complaints about WvW class balance is completely ignored.

Is this a new buzzword? Gank Specs? What is a gank spec? My first thought is a thief, for the other classes a gank spec would be quick burst damage?

Retal was mostly nerfed because of WvW anyway, confusion was nerfed in WvW, thieves get to keep 3 second reveal instead of 4, there are many different things but people forget.

Pyroathiest.4168:

jefferson.8317:

Don’t mistake the skill of the player with the viability of the class.

Even more than this. In order to effectively run a mesmer, a team needs both an extremely skilled mesmer and the entire team needs to be highly skilled and coordinated. You can have the best mesmer in the game, but if you don’t make use of how they play, if you don’t give them opportunities for burst or make good usage of their portals, you’ll still be better off just grabbing another hambow.

Rom from TCG addressed hambow and double war comps from the NA ToL and why they didn’t run double War comps. The game for top teams has always been about team work, rotations, and skilled players and less about the builds. Conditions are what pushed mesmer out before, but since almost everything is power now and conditions for necros are nerfed I can’t see why Mesmer’s wouldn’t be viable. Most top engineers are running power anyway not conditions.

Rom.4536:

To be frank, it is a reason why us in TCG does not run double hambow. 1, it is cheesy. But 2, it is not OP. It is surely counterable. I read a few comments here about “because that class or spec didnt reach finals obviously it needs buff or what not” or “look at final teams obviously WAR needs nerf”.

I bet they could have pracced with only 1 WAR also and probably hit the finals anyways.

People seem to be so harsh at judging a mere 10days since a huge patch that made a lot of impact on both gameplay such as theorycraft.

I can tell you already that I didnt see anybody using the most “OP” things yet on ToL NA. We The Civilized Gentlemen didnt find our complete perfected line-up with builds yet. We already noticed a lot of other things that we didnt even use in the EU ToL just a few days after.

I’m simply stating, stop being so drastic in judgement and basing all of your ideas off of this ToL in NA. Some talk about buffs and nerfs like thats the answer to your issues. Its fun how people just cant stand maybe not being as superior as you they think they are. Simply train with mates and become better instead of shoving the NERF-towel into the winners face.

Form.8741:

I am not a guildie or a group player who likes to join a mob, I am a person who wants to test my skill against someone else. I prefer 1v1/2v2 fights. Every argument I make about fixes/changes is based on their use/efficacy in small fights. I don’t care about huge mobs that autocleanse, autoheal, etc., in wvw. It’s a boring playstyle and has been boring since it began. The only interest games hold for me is when they challenge my skill solo or as part of a very small group where each person actually matters.

The design of this game around groups instead of solos is prone to making the single person feel insignificant and useless on their own. I don’t like that concept, and I don’t think it makes for good game longevity.

I see where your coming from I roam a lot its all I do I have 7 classes at 80 all built to roam as best as possible.

I could make a long post about roaming and dueling but it doesn’t matter. If you like roaming and dueling then you have to understand that game isn’t balanced around it. It’s blatantly obvious that 1v1’s get very little considerations for 1v1’s. I can’t remember a patch note about anything related to 1v1’s and solo roaming and 1v2’s.

Thinking the game should be balanced around 1v1 is just not excepting reality.

Form.8741:

Try avoiding all of the massive condition spam weapon skills and condispam utilities(think engineer, necro, etc.) and condispam runes and traits (think Mesmer, thief, engineer, etc.) and passives (guardian etc.). Try avoiding every single one of those skills, many with short cooldowns. Try avoiding all the Mesmer phantasms that autoconfuse/cripple, or the guardian autoattacks that autoburn, or various other attacks that automatically apply poison/bleed/torment/confusion/etc, while they also do direct damage at the same time. Then try avoiding all of the conditions that are applied to you when you happen to be in a certain AREA of effect or whenever you try to hit the enemy. Then try purging all of the conditions when the only skill you have that can purge all your damaging conditions is on a 30-60second cooldown but the enemy can reapply them every 5-20 seconds or faster.

Then try to avoid all the 1+ second castingtime direct damage burst skills that have huge telegraphs and can be evaded, dodged, blocked, invincibility-prevented, BLIND-prevented (something not so effective vs condition skills), etc. Which one is easier to not get hit by?

The 1+ casting time? Thats what a Warrior? Not all burst skills are 1+ second there are many big damage skills that are fast usually on classes aren’t a warrior.

Carpboy.7145:

The reason people like strength is mostly for the might duration and stacking might from other sources. So your EP ratios arent really fair at all. And guardians need traveler or speed runes, so pack are meh as they require you getting hit (thus reducing your speed) to proc the swiftness

It’s based off some realistic scenarios, not everyone is stacking like a Ele or Engi. For Guardians I would take pack over speed I have both sets in armor and run pack most times. I don’t think Guardians need traveler(or any rune for that matter) it depends on what you want to run. The various builds linked in on the guard forums don’t say traveler or speed is necessary Chris(made healway popular) has mentioned he isn’t a fan of speed or traveler over a more focused rune set.

Form.8741:

This funny difference about condi damage…it’s a constant that doesn’t require you to be attacking once cast/inflicted, nor does it require that you continue to hit the enemy – which said hits are added to the effect of condi damage by being secondary physical damage. It’s basically guaranteed tick damage until removed, whereas melee/range/etc. can be dodged by being out of range or evades.

So why are people still defending undodgable per-second stacking damage?

Well we assume that people remove/attempt to remove their conditions unlike your example.

Not stand there you pain the picture as if you can stack a few condis at the beginning, do something else because that person won’t cleanse and die.

Well we know Strength Runes are the popular Rune at the moment. We know that Hoelbrak is a good option for Might Stacks with some dps loss compared with Strength Runes.

What about Runes of the Pack as a relatively cheap DPS rune option.

This is probably more applicable to WvW/sPvP Fury isn’t something difficult to maintain in PvE groups.

The Runes fury uptime could allow you to take another trait instead of your Fury trait or augment your Fury uptime.

• Pack Runes vs Strength Runes
• Pack runes give some of the best raw stats of any rune in the game with 175 power and 125 precision (5.95% critical chance). The 4 piece bonus effectively boosts your critical chance by another 10% (50% fury uptime), gives you 17.5 power (50% uptime on one stack of might) and gives you 65% swiftness uptime.
  
  Generic Build 1: Pack Runes: assumes 50% fury uptime (10% critical chance) + ½ stack of might

• 2117.5 Power
• 66% critical chance
• 185% critical damage
• 1 damage multiplier =
  3305.42 effective power

Generic Build 1: Strength Runes: assumes 2 stacks of might from strength rune procs

• 2170 Power
• 50% critical chance
• 185% critical damage
• 1.07 damage multiplier=
  3308.71 effective power
  
  While strength runes have a slight edge in effective power, pack runes will have a much lower standard deviation of damage since the critical chance is much higher (the gap between your highest hits and smallest hits will be lower). Pack runes also provide group support, as the 4 piece bonus applies to up to 4 allies in a 600 radius. Two players can maintain 1 stack of might, 100% fury, and 130% swiftness uptime on each other with no other investment in boon duration. This effectively means that Pack runes are giving 25.95% critical chance, 210 power, and permanent swiftness if they are used with a partner.
  
  Some Class specific notes to consider:

• Pack runes are particularly attractive to Mesmers, whose phantasms don’t benefit from might stacks or damage multipliers on the caster and their only skills that really benefit from strength runes are auto attacks, which don’t have very high damage multipliers. Phantasms do benefit from the base 5.95% critical chance and 175 power from the runes though, and Mesmers always appreciate swiftness.

• Elementalists with 6 Arcana can trade Zephyr’s Boon for Pack runes and still maintain 100% swiftness uptime through Air Attunement and Updraft, with the swiftness from Pack runes being extra. Pack runes combined with Arcane Fury maintain 90% fury uptime if you are 6 in Arcana (65% from Pack runes and 25% from Arcane Fury). Zephyr’s boon, by comparison, gives 42.25% fury uptime from Shocking and Frost aura, plus 25% from Arcane Fury for a total of 67.25%.

• Trickery Thieves can trade Furious Retaliation (6.67% effective critical chance) for Side Strike (7% critical chance when hitting a foe from behind or the side) since they can maintain 100% fury uptime with Pack Runes + Thrill of the Crime.

• For Guardians Pack Runes I think they are a better option than Strength. With Meditations traited and Focused Mind traited, you can get over 100% fury uptime with 4 in Virtues. If you ran DPS Shout build or shouts in general with 4 Virtues and Save Yourself, you maintain 85% uptime on fury.