Well I guess I was wrong Solari, since you pointed it out. I guess I made the mistake of expecting not to be hit in quick succession for 6k damage a time by an ability which requires 0 setup to use.
Your amazing opinion due to the fact you are such a well recognized player clearly dwarfs my own and all classes are balanced and even in equal hands. Your spvp experience clearly marks you out as being the pinnacle of all knowledge of class balance.
And Mirra…sigh..how many heartseekers can you do in one initiative bar. 0.75 is a cooldown now? I didn’t realise we were being super petty. Heartseeker is 0.25 secs slower than an elementalists air auto attack. That’s not exactly a cast time equivalent is it. It’s not ’ Oh look!, he’s about to cast heartseeker! i better avoid this one!’
If you’re having trouble understanding what happened re-read my initial post. It wasn’t 1v1. Who sneaks up on their opponent as a thief? Shadowstep/steal/Signet….gap closing on a thief is extremely easy, i played one.
I wouldn’t mind if it were a C+d/steal/mug into backstab combo, least that takes a modicum of skill and has a cooldown. Heartseeker is like me firegrabbing 4 times in a row.
The problem with HS spamming is that it’s utilised by every nub thief out there (which there are many), and produces significant damage without having to even try.
All this time i’ve been forgetting to use chill on thieves!!!
You’ve solved the problem! I’ve not been bothering to use those two skills when im attacked.
I’m just glad there’s someone like you around to point these things out.
What?
Warrior starts with the most armour and most health of any class.
So no class will ever be able to make a template with the stats of a warrior simply because of that fact alone.
Warriors were always fine in WvW.
The buffs just made them grossly overpowered compared to everyone else.
Always funny to see warriors justify their class.
Keep going though, the fact you do well is all you, all your skill, nothing to do with the class.
No really.
That’s all WvWvW is now.
Oh, and the smattering of guardians, but it’s getting tiresome. Congrats on creating a beast of an easymode class which due to it’s near immortality at times has just attracted the biggest playerbase simply because when they play anything else they’re just demolished by the warrior/guardian train.
Who would have though giving high armour/high health/high mobility/high damage/multiple damage invulnerabilities/cc immunity and best condition clears combined with the best health regen in the game would make a class over played…
It’s funny that people think 2500 armour on an ele is glassy….
It just goes to show how clueless people are about other classes stats.
Well said.
People don’t target the ele first as he’s the most dangerous, they target him first because they know afer he’s blown his few long timered utilities he’s deadmeat.
They gave eles the lowest hp and armour at creation with nil in the way of compensation, this is where anet falls down in their balance.
They made the trinity as soon as they gave warriors high health and armour, yet gave their abilities the same damage as supposed ‘dps’ classes.
Eles are more prone to conditions as well due to low innate health more than any other class.
Lol, really ? ele’s have so many damage mitigation skills…on such short timers.
An ele has to dance across the keyboard combining 4 atunements and spell combos to get what a thief gets in 2 button clicks.
I used to play a thief. The ability to go invisible every 4 seconds and the ability to blind constantly and teleport is a pretty good defence.
A move which requires no setup or cast time shouldn’t hit for that much. Much less be spammable, and have a leap attached.
It allows bad thieves to be extremely dangerous when they add into fight. kitten kitten !! i’ll just spam button 2 as i enter this fight!, oh look! i’ve done 12k damage in 3 hits!
It’s no wonder you see so many thieves in WvW and so few classes like Ele’s roaming away from the blob.
No spammable move should carry that much damage.
And what sort of player gets hit with churning earth?
I can probably count on 1 hand the number of times i’ve failed to dodge a churning earth.
And the thief can get off 3 heartseekers as you charge it up.
I’m an ele. 2500 armour.
How can I get hit for 6k each time by a spammable attack.
My churning earth has a 3 1/2 sec cast time and does that damage to soft targets.
It involved absolutely no skill, no sort of setup and it has a gap closer attached. If youre fighting someone else (i was), thief jumps in, presses 2 twice and that much damage?
Attacks which involve no setup, no cooldown and no cast time shoudn’t hit for that much.
Simple as this.
Put equal skill ele vs equal skill other classes and say who would win.
I bet pretty much everyone but possibly a ranger, would beat the ele.
I’ll be crying over there with my ele.
These stats are more than some classes get?
I think you’ll find that literally every other class, literally, can get better stats than that with the exact same build you use.
You do realize that eles have the lowest hp starter stat and lowest armour stat at creation than anyone else, meaning they will always have the lowest stats with any sort of template when compared to another class.
Warriors start with 8k more health than an elementalist. Just for being a warrior.
Then why doesn’t stealth break when you hit a thief?
That seems even more ridiculous. It’s not even stealth, it’s just invisibility.
Exactly.
If you have high armour and high hps with the healing and survivability afforded by the signet and stances you’re ranged capabilities should be awful.
If you’re beating the necro on an ele, i wouldn’t say they’re ‘very skillful’.
My friend played a condi necro before he switched to power, and ate elementalists up. It’s so easy to land a signet of spite and keep people feared with 28k health, then a full deathshroud to get through.
But let me guess, all the ele’s he beat just weren’t that good… :/
Focus is pretty much just for duels, and it’s a one trick pony to get the burst off whilst maintaining invulnerability.
It has no real place in WvW. The auras are just too useful for the fury uptime and mobility skills of dagger offhand with the knockdown and burst.
Scep mainhand is ok, but hoenstly dagger mainhand is just so much better.
A classes potency should never be gauged by its performance in the zerg. Every class can do well in a zerg. I did great on my d/d thief in a zerg, shortbow, cluster bombing for 4k, d/d, finishing off folk.
I know it’s impossible to balance around 1v1, but throughout the many forms of mmos, d&d, tabletop games etc, a class such as the ele could exist because it could either be protected, recieved healing from a cleric type class or some such.
Say you were playing D&D, and the dm said ’ a thief attacks you, you have to roll for initiative. You lose, oh, he did more than your hps. looks like you’re dead.’
‘But i’m far away?, can’t i get in a spell first?’
‘Nope, he can close the gap instantly, and he’s invisible most of the time’.
‘What about my defensive spells?’
‘oh, you used them a while ago, they won’t be up for ages’.
’Can’t i get in one ranged spell?’
‘Oh ok- it does 1/10 of his health, and in the time it took to cast he’kitten you 4 times’.
Mistform…., sure it’s nice for mist stomps/revives, but you can’t outrun anyone, you’re still ticking condi damage, you can’t heal up and people just follow you and then hit you instantly as you pop out……as you did on that second ele for 6k. Also its on a 75 second timer……
I know anet are trying to go against the whole dps/heal/tank setup, but as i’ve said many times before, they created that trinity as soon as they gave classes different hp and armour values at creation but nothing to compensate in terms of damage differences.
A medium skilled ele will still be worse than the worst thief or hammer warrior.
That’s the problem. Healing signet, knockdowns and spammable high damage skills with built in gap closers will just overwhelm most average players.
As mentioned, even if you’re a good player, only takes one of these guys to come in on a fight and it’s over for you, 3 knockdowns in a row, or spamming 3 heartseekers, 10k damage done with no way to avoid it. Was great of anet to design a class with a high skillcap and mediocre reward, and some classes with low skillcaps with huge rewards.
Really?
You’re complaining about Longbow on a warrior?
As takecare said – due to low inherent health of an ele, you will die horribly against conditions if you have no diamond skin. Signet of spite will probably take you to 1/4 life. It’s impossoble for you to keep up with condition removal.
Same applies against any condition spamming class. No way to win if they’re decent.
If you have diamond skin you should win though, unless they drop you below 90 % in which case it becomes extremely hard.
Again a case where the low hp levels of the ele directly cripple it compared to everyone else.
900 isn’t really ranged.
It’s a few steps from being hit by an auto attack, let’s face it. Also scepter autos are terrible damage.
The problem is you get the eles who chase zergs and just press meteor shower and then cycle through all the cooldowns and do damage and think ‘Wow! i’m so great! Eles are fine!’ Newflash, every class is easy to play in a zerg, it takes 0 skill.
Then you get actual decent players who prefer solo roaming or small scale fights and elementalist weaknesses become very quickly apparent. It’s easy to face roll level ups, or terrible players, that applies to all classes.
But a well played thief/warrior/condition class will just tear you apart due to the fact eles have low health and few defensive skills (and the ones they do have are on long timers and last a short time).
There’s no way to stop someone attacking an ele in a group, there’s no guard function, there’s no way to peel people off someone as everyone has ranged gap closers so all an ele can do is blow defensive skills and run away alot. If mistform/earth isn’t up it’s goodbye ele in <5 seconds.
At times i’ll be fighting a 1v1, a thief will join in on me, and boom, i’m down 11k health in a second with nothing I could do.
Or if I try to escape, lighting flash,then rtl out i expect to be somewhat clear, but no!, that warrior has had no problems keeping up, and look!, you snare/cc has 0 effect as he laughs it off with dogged march/lemongrass food/runes.
For the class with lowest hp/armour in a game with no peels/guard ability and where melee classes have such high damage and gap closers + ranged damage, the ele needs more defensive skills/longer/harder cc abilities.
Anet have made a mage without the benefits granted by being a mage class. Namely zero defense and ranged damage which is only effective if you decide to stand in it.
In reality it should be low hp/low armour high fast ranged damage with cc to compensate.
The norn racial is pretty good.
Human still wins imho, the grenth ability is actually very strong when used correctly.
I ran d/d.
Since the ability to stealth every 1-2 hits isn’t really a broken mechanic, but actual class design, they why exactly wouldn’t I use it?
What thief isn’t in stealth every few seconds?
But yes, I can say ele’s are an easy kill, you can say you can kill everything that exists, so eles are clearly in a great spot.
If atunements swapping isn’t weapon swapping then surely elementalists should have a second weapon set, as all the other classes do?
Those thieves/mesmers and warriors that supposedly “annihilate” eles have never gone against a good ele player.
Oh really….must just be a coincidence that of all the classes I never ever lost to an ele on my thief. I just happened to fight all the terrible ele players, and would come out of fights at pretty much full health. Or somehow I could end fights in sub 5 seconds sometimes, or occasionally 1 shot geared eles.
I even had an obviously well kitted ele join my group just to tell me how did I hit him for a 21k total. I replied ’ i pressed 4 buttons’. How we laughed!
But its funny to see warriors ,who probably think it’s just them that are great players and not the inherent stupidity of giving a high armour/high hp class the ability to do so much damage whilst remaining so tanky with the best regen in the game coupled with the best mobility, get their panties in a twist.
The difference in power between the warrior and the ranger say, is just so huge. A longbow warrior is better than a longbow ranger in all respects. and that right there tells you all you need to know about the warrior. Master of weapons!, including your classes weapons.
Because ele defenders have never played against a good thief/mesmer or warrior.
They just get anhialated.
The whole game is just hammer warriors,thieves and guardians.
Just ridiculous.
As predicted. It’s easy to follow a zerg with an ele. Every class is easy in a zerg and can do well.
But try small man or some 1v1 against decent players. See how well you do then.
Like I said, i’ve never lost against an ele on my thief.
I’ve also experienced this. The sad sad thing, it was an afk warrior, and I thought i’d test out my lightning auto. I could not get his health to go down.
I’ve had warriors spam laugh at me as i’ve rolled through all my skills and they don’t have to make any effort as they regen up.
The combination of adrenal regen, regen, +healing signet is nuts.
Like no other classes have useless utilities?
I guess you had better dry your eyes with those 11k backstabs and near perma invisibility.
The ele has been severely pigeon holed more so than anyone else due to the low hp and low armour at creation with nothing to compensate.
You’ve created a trinity by assigning different hp values and armor values at creation, except there’s no trade off in power/damage meaning those with low hp/armour will always be worse off when putting a template together.
If there was no such thing as a holy trinity in the game then tell me how many of you would take a melee mage instead of a warrior in a dungeon. Really it should be completely interchangable. BUt it isn’t as a high armour/high vitality mage will do 0 damage.
I know buddy, but sometimes the frustration gets a bit too much and i needed a vent.
I’m just looking forward to the ‘Ele is fine, I kill ’x’ class all the time’ brigade.
It doesn’t matter how much you dodge, or anticipate moves. When one class does more damage than you and has abilities to take less damage than you, you’ll always lose if you’re equally skilled.
So up until a few months ago In WvW was playing a thief full time. I only ever had trouble with some warriors and PU mesmers. I ran 30/30/10/0/0 d/d spec, full zerker gear, ascended weapons, some ascended trinkets, exotic armour ,signets, and would hit for a shedload. I didn’t even run shadow shadowstep, just refuge.
If a fight wasn’t going my way 9/10 I could get out of there just using heartseeker spam to run. On my ease of kill list, longbow rangers were bottom, then elementalists (all types) then whatever. If you failed to see my opener, i would do a 16k+ combo to you, if you dodge my first opener, I could do a 12k+ combo to follow up, followed by 4k heartseekers. It was pretty ridiculous.
I switched to ele as honestly it just looked enjoyable to play.
After playing the ele for a bit now, the low hitpoints just arn’t made up for by the damage or utility.
This applies in all aspects of the game. No matter how good you are at predicting attacks you only have 2 dodges and a few short, long cooldown defensive skills.
Against other classes (such as thieves, who have similar hitpoints to you), they’ll be doing more damage (due to the fact their power is generally higher) at a greater rate. Their auto attack > your auto attack and spammable high damage skills.
Every class hits so godkitten ed hard, has so many gap closers or has so much condition damage flowing in I find myself in a constant state of defense, this combined with the fact i’m always first target, not because I can lay down extreme damage/cc, but because i’m low hp and will go down very fast if any utilities are down(which is alot, considering they’re on elite level cooldown timers….).
The knock on effect from nerfing eles in spvp due to the fact they could bunker well (not kill well, just avoid being killed for a long time), was to make them not be able to take damage that well, but they were still left with being fairly average damage dealers.
So the worst of both worlds now in effect.
If you’re going to make a ‘mage’ archetype, then it’s ‘low hp, cloth armour and high,fast ranged damage’.
Not ‘Low hp, cloth, slow ranged medium damage with cast times, and a few instant medium ranged spells’
I know this whole ‘holy trinity thing’, but really, can you see an ele filling the role of a guardian or warrior in a group? The trinity existed as soon as you gave different hp levels and armour values, but none of the power differences to compliment them.
TLDR: Elementalists need more health/better defence or higher damage values to compensate them as damage from other classes is more than comparable.
Honestly if I could have some sort of fighting chance against certain classes i’d be happy. The low hp and lack of defensive skills just murder us.
Don’t be sillt, that sort of thing would give eles some sort of fighting chance against thieves..
Hope it means my ele can last more than 5 seconds against good thieves.
It’s getting a bit tiring tbh.
This is good, because for the longest time i’ve been thinking how weak warriors are. They really needed some sort of boost, i’ve never heard anyone mention how strong they are ever….
I’m not sure that the elementalist will become op anytime soon…
Last night I was sitting in 3k armour and i was still eating heartseekers for 4k and backstabs for 9k+.
The low hp for an ele is what will keep them inherently weak compared to all the other classes. The fact you have to build in vitality into build and other classes don’t means your overall stats will always be weaker.
Would be nice, it’s completely unplayable atm. Literally every class can beat it 1v1.
You could argue that the heal + water atunement makes up for it.
But self healing wise, healing signet + adrenal health is 10x more effective.
I’ve had warriors out regen my auto attack damage.
Our only advantage is giving people around us some regen as well. It’s not really like big chunks of health though.
Which would make sense since the heal is pretty small.
Now it only favours a dagger/dagger build as being able to drop a 168 heal on yourself every 10/20 seconds is a bit rubbish.
So max 1 auto a second…..this makes it even worse.
I tend to favour ether renewal as well, problem is decent players know to stun/disrupt you as soon as you start using it leaving you in a tight spot and it’s not great against burst classes.
Low vitality should = higher damage.
This sadly isn’t the case.