Wow, you started when the thief was really really strong, and now it’s merely really strong?
You’ve really toughed it out on one of the best classes in the game.
Ashe dude, you are SO negative, like SO SO negative.
I see your name by a post and I sigh as I just know what’s coming. This is bad, this doesn’t work, we’re so awful.
I do think ele needs some buffs in terms of hp levels and lowering cooldowns on atunements and utility timers, thieves stealth is badly designed and yes, conditions are badly designed in terms of their ability to be spammed, but really, it’s not the end of the world….
Hmm, all good points.
I’m hoping the damage I mitigate by having heart of stone more than makes up for my loss of overall healing.
The other reason for going 30 arcane is I really want the swap to earth to be available as often as possible.
If I ran 0/0/30/10/30 on next patch
I’m trying to gear round that build, for the stone heart trait as I see alot more crit damage with the guaranteed crits for 3 hits with int sigil becoming common.
I’m finding the 30 in arcana needed for the heal+cleanse in water to cope with some condition removal, also the might stacking it gives.
I’ve been running this build now (but with some diamond skin) and my damage is still pretty good. I find myself having to use ether mist more often.
Anyone else considered a similar setup? Or am I missing something so obviously bad it’s a no no setup?
I’m seriously considering going 30,0,30,0,10.
Between the blinds and crit immunity i’m hoping to be fairly hardy.
They should remove the switch timer on atunements, or make it 5 seconds and make the arcane stat something better. I don’t see why it’s a base 13 seconds with the ultra long skill cooldowns we have. I could have understood if it was 10 seconds base.
Looking at the new signet changes (specifically sig of intelligence, 3 guaranteed crits on wep swap), I’m beginning to feel stone heart is almost going to become mandatory for survival.
Think of stone heart this way.
You switch to water to get some heals off on yourself, maybe 5k worth?
When you switch to earth you can end up negating 10k of damage from a burst in crits + effects.
It’s actually more beneficial than healing in terms of sustain.
If thieves run the new gm instead of the heal in stealth then great. The heal whilst in stealth is far more potent.
Being immune to crits whilst in earth…yes please!
Incoming my 0/0/30/20/20 build or my 0/0/30/10/30
This negates SO much damage, no more on crit sigils activating, or on crit effects.
For the damage backstab does, it’s ridiculously easy to get off.
Fine showing your backstab for 750, i’ll show you backstabs on my supposedly tanky ele for 10k.
Considering the backstab arc is 180 it’s just so little punishment if you miss.
Stealth should break on attack. Considering how easy it is to restealth why is it an issue?
Also any competent thief can beat any class. See how easy it is to turn around that statement?
The whole point of an eles healing was never to heal other people, but to heal the ele himself which was meant to compensate for the low armour and low hp values.
At least this is what I took it to be. Otherwise what justification is there for giving them low values.
No one would take this over cleansing water for wvw/pvp.
Also since it does nothing for the caster it doesn’t really change survivability at all for the elementalist, given that the ele is usually no 1 target in fights it’s a bit of a let down.
Fingers crossed for other GM traits…
But isn’t the point here that you’d send a Thief after an Ele for a good reason? And that’s because the Ele will f*** you up if you don’t pay attention to him. You could send your Thief after any class, but you chose the Ele because Eles make a big difference in team-fights.
At least that’s my interpretation of it.
The issue is the thief can take the ele down 1v1 with very little difficulty. It would be different if there was a chance the thief might die, or the fight could take a few minutes. It won’t though, the ele is a speed bump, and suddenly it’s a 4v5 battle for 80 percent of the match. I almost guarantee a thief will kill an ele before the end of a meteor shower cast in pvp.
It should be the old passive heal, and when activated gives you the base heal as is + 10 seconds of the current regen.
That way at least you choose between having a small regen, or having the larger regen for 10 seconds and then 0 regen for 10 seconds.
Thing is, any coordinated team worth their salt will just say ‘Thief, focus ele all the time every time’
And there’s nothing the ele can do. In pvp you spec all damage and die to absolutely anything, or non damage, and contribute very little. Before it was bunker or damage, bunker was stopped, so what are you left with.
Both are pretty insane.
From an elementalist point of view, chill is just devastating, especially since it effects atunements.
Immobility can generally spell death, and with the duration increases, i’m finding unless I run lemongrass + geomancers freedom i’ll almost always get stuck every few seconds eating huge damage and not being able to do a thing about it. When you’re a low armour and low hp class and some warrior has landed a 6 second root on you it’s not going to turn out too well, and the fact he can drop that root every 7 seconds….
It should be a maximum 2 second duration and not stacking.
Really…you’re really trying to make out that thieves are somewhat hard to play.
The thief is by far the safest and easiest profession to roam on.
I used to play zerk thief 30/30/10/0/0 and didn’t have any problems with survivability. When i played 10/30/30/0/0 it was even easier. My worst case scenario was having to use stealth shroud and then i’d be back to full health in a few ticks.
You have medium armour, it’s not very bad. Very bad armour would be ‘light’ armour…
I hate to even touch my thief now (even after i bought him magitech armour skin QQ), it’s just laughably easy to get kills and not be killed. The only classes i’d find hard were some stacked condi warriors. But if I wanted to get away from a fight, I could do it every time. In zergs I did fine, picking off people or spamming cluster bombs for 2-3k a hit.
Stealth is silly, it should break on damage or break as soon as you attack, even if you miss/are evaded/hit a shield. Otherwise all he has to do is spam , if he misses 3 times, then come out of stealth and just c+d again, and try all over again, except this time your cooldowns are all blown.
You’ve found the problem.
As mentioned you’re a kill or be killed build.
I ran that too and yes, I had more success against some thieves, but conditions will take full advantage of how low your hps are and how low your heals are. Unfortunately for all the advice given by everyone, it’s so easy to reapply conditions, as you cleanse them you just spend time clearing and not doing damage.
Sadly all he has to do is avoid you whilst his condis tick, that tied into the fact he will have high tough and high health due to condi armour sets.
You could try 0,20,30,10,10
You get diamond skin then, but the drop in crit damage and no fresh air. But it really helps against condi spammers.
Oh I hope it’s not diamond skin.
It’s sad that a skill like that is percentage based on hp. On the class with the lowest hp/armour in the game, so the easiest to fall beneath 90 percent hp.
Really it should be condition immunity once you drop below 50 percent, that would make more sense since it’s so kitten ed easy to do that as an ele.
Btw, i was amused to see certain players (won’t name names) leap into the thread to voice their concerns about eles becoming any stronger than they are, players who will lay out diatribes if anyone whispers about warriors being too strong etc.
Honestly, if they can just stop eles being the whipping boy for thieves it would be a start, I know everyone says ‘In a duel I can always beat thieves!!! lolololo! ’..etc etc…but in WvW, not in a 1v1 situation, and all your cooldowns arn’t up, and there’s multiple damage sources and attacks, you’ve just spent your dodge rolls avoiding that hammer train, that sudden 10K+ burst followed by spamming 3-4k hs’ers is generally doom and your only option is running as fast as you can.
Problem as said is stats.
Having lowest armour and lowest hps yet similar damage puts eles in an impossible situation.
If you want survivability you can never have the damage of other classes.
If you want damage you will be even squishier than the next class up.
I agree on mobility, unless you blow fgs, it;s impossible to escape a thief on an ele, and the damage is just a constant stream. An ele just doesnt have any defences to speak of, yet the lowest hp/armour in the game.
If you want any sort of roaming respect don’t play:
Thief of any sort/pu mesmer/condi engi/condi necro/Warrior of any sort/spirit ranger condi sb spamming.
Also..thieves who say ‘When i mess up i’m dead!’ No you’re not..you just go into stealth shroud and come back at full life with cooldowns back up, and shroud will be back up in 40 seconds once you reappear once more.
Videos like this just really put into perspective all thieves who claim they have no real defences.
(edited by phaeris.7604)
Hah!
That’s sadly true, you’re both the disease and the cure.
repeatedly cleanse?
There is no build which can outcleanse condition application builds.
It’s easy to say ‘cleanse’
But it’s so easy to reapply it, and not so easy to repeatdley cleanse..
Cue the warrior fanboys with the hollers of ‘L2P!’
If a warrior wants to get away he will get away. Don’t act like he won’t. My first toon was a warrior, greatsword rush + whirl = No one can catch you.
Dogged march+lemongrass+melandru = cc immunity
Yes, the guy is a thief and yes there were 3 of them and they should have played better, but as for the mobility aspect, warriors just have ridiculous mobility compared to everyone else in the game. That he has correct.
When I fight a warrior I can almost guarantee if I get him down to 20 percent he’ll run, and there’s nothing I can do to catch him.
Stealth should break on damage. It’s the only way to make it fair. If i’ve seen through your movements and land a hit then my skill should be rewarded.
Stealth confers so many advantages in a fight. It gives you the initiative, the ability to play the battle as you want. With the ‘in stealth healing’ you reset the fight each time.
You can attack again and again and even if the other guy dodges 2 attacks it makes no difference, as you still get the advantage of attacking a 3rd time whilst in stealth, and big moves like backstab don’t cost a thing. Even if you evade/avoid all attacks in stealth, the thief can just refresh it a moment later, no harm done.
It clears conditions every few seconds, so no kiting a thief off you with chill/immobilise spam. You get stacking might for doing nothing more than just going into stealth. The ele has to piano his keyboard to get 12 stacks going.
Currently the stealth mechanic just confers too many advantages with no real downside.
I’m not suprised so many people are rolling warriors/guardians, they’re just tired of being the bottom of the food chain to the numerous thief players out there. I played a thief for a year, i ran only shadow refuge as my escape and still felt safer than any other class i’ve played when i solo roamed.
It’s probably one of the worst implementations of the stealth mechanic i’ve seen in any game. It is in fact not stealth at all, it’s unbreakable invisibility.
Nice to see duels from someone playing a hard spec/class instead of thieves/pu mesmers.
The problem is, is that everyone will focus the ele first.
You have lowest armour and lowest hp in the game, so out of everyone who will go down fastest?
I’m an ele and even I target other eles.
Warrior healing signet heals for more than that and is passive
Thats with 0 points in healing.
I don’t understand how the engi at 6.40 got a shield throw to interrupt on you when you were healing, it’s a projectile after all.
It’s a good thing that Mesmers are on the medium hitpoint table because clearly they have so few escape mechanisms….not like those elementalists with their 2hr cooldown ones, they deserve to be on the lowest tables.
Stealth should break on attack.
If they miss/you evade/block etc, they should still reveal.
For the advantages and sheer damage increase you get from a backstab, and how easy it is to enter stealth, if you fluff your attack you should be punished for it. Not just be able to try again and again until it connects.
It’s not stealth at all. It’s unbreakable invisibility. If i’ve predicted when you’re going to backstab me and I evade, then i should have the advantage, where in reality you just get to try again and again until you connect. My evades/defensive skills will run out, but backstabs and stealth never do.
Well since you say bursty you’re probably running 100 percent crit damage, 40 percent crit chance, power 2800-2900, armour 2700, health 15-16k?
I was looking for a more group friendly build tbh, ‘Takecares’ seems better, i’m finding in team fights immobilise/extended chill or fear is a nightmare if you’re focused. I just can’t find the balance between a 1v1 build and a team build.
(edited by phaeris.7604)
Mbelch, what spec do you run out of interest, some thieves just tear me apart tbh.
Ahh ok, i’ve been playing around with a high (1k) heal build, but have found it lacking.
I’ve had some success on my 0/15/30/15/10 build, 100 crit damage, 3k power and 40 percent crit chance.
Yesterday I tried a heal/condition build, (700 heal/1900 condition), it was terrible.
As you said, unless you can put out high quick damage on thieves the fight is over as everything is in their favour form the get go.
Are you finding issues with toughness? Because honestly whether i’m 2400 or 3000, my survivability seems the same. I’m finding a bigger damage output just works better all round.
My main issue is the blind effect, I know that this is a game, and realism etc etc..
But how exactly does a blind prevent you from taking damage from an aoe spell, there is no visual component to it, no targetting required, my vision has nothing do with someone being caught up in the effect.
He has an attack of 2700-2800, about 40-50 percent crit damage, and 30 percent crit chance. About 2700 toughness.
So most likely 0/10/10/20/30.
Meaning a mix of Celestial, knights, valks. Probably trav runes.
So usually 99/100 times other players can completely avoid churning earths, it’s so telegraphed, and such a long cast time that a simple dodge usually negates it.
Most people do just walk out or dodge it. I noted yesterday as a thief was butchering me they simply blinded me and took 0 damage.
So if i’m blinded does everyone in the churning earth vicinity take 0 damage?
Also, really??, a blind prevents damage from an aoe spell?
Am I just going mad?
Versatile…i’ve heard of that word.
Maybe when they game came out and they said ’ Any class can fit any role!’. No holy trinity!..
But then they gave everyone different hp and armour totals and expected a class with 8k less hp and 300 less armour to have the same levels of tankiness as a warrior?
When you’re using a warrior to try and say how weak thieves are, then can you imagine how far below an elementalist sits on that scale?
Honestly though, i’d prefer to fight a warrior anyday over a thief. Stealth is such a terrible mechanic in this game. It’s not even stealth, it’s unbreakable invisibility. Realistically it should break if you’re hit whilst in stealth, then casters would have a decent chance to prevent back(actually 180 arc stabs if were being honest)stabs, and make the thief require some actual skill to play well.
As I stood there getting hit by a mesmer greatsword auto from 1200 away noting it it for 600-1k a tick I thought, arn’t eles meant to be the true casters of this game? I mean we’re on the low hp and low armour tables, so that must mean we should be most damaging at range yes?
I really don’t get what they wanted elementalists to be in this game
Realistically they should have faster, spammable ranged damage.
If a thief catches you unaware at melee then you should be the dead one, if you catch him unaware at ranged then he should be the dead one. Currently if you have a staff equipped and a thief sees you, it’s over. Coming from playing a thief, the only thing easier than killing an ele, was a staff ele.
And scepter autos…don’t even start with that, fire auto attack, a 1 1/4 cast time? Truthfully, has anyone ever switched to scepter, cast phoenix and whatever else is on 4+5 and then thought, maybe i’ll get in a few autos…..? I didn’t think so.
Then dagger auto attacks, we all know that air is the only one worth using, out of all four atunements using anything but air is just such a huge drop in dps.
So if you’re going to keep the elementalist such a punching bag for everyone, at least make them more dangerous at range without having to be absolutely paper.
You’re playing a cheesy condition PU spec setup on possibly one of the best 1v1 classes out there?
You’re lucky anyone bothers staying to give you a fight.
If you had any honour as a player you’d be playing pure shatter spec, not some cowardly condition spec.
I remember when bunker eles held a proud position in that list.
1) Hambow warrior/Condi warriors
2) Perplexity spamming engis.
3) PU mesmers.
4) P/d perplexity/condi spamming thieves.
5) D/P stealth spam thieves.
6) Conditions spammers in general.
That is what cheese is, players who don’t really want a challenge and specifically pick a build as they know they can be successful with minimal effort as the build favours victory due to game mechanics.
Worst of all, just how can it be fun, spamming the number 1 button most of the time.
(edited by phaeris.7604)
Actually Ele’s were a bunker build in pvp and they got nerfed the hell out of them
How everyone cried that they couldn’t kill eles (note – couldn’t kill, not that eles were killing anyone, just very hard to clear off points), Then they completely gutted healing numbers,SoR and RTL with no compensation in terms of other forms of survivability or damage and suddenly you’re left with the same class with none of the killing power and now none of the survivability….
How did they expect that to play out I wonder. Unfortunately as an Ele you can’t spec zerker and expect to survive more than a few seconds due to the awful disparity in starting stats.
All around bad planning and bad balancing.