I’ve fought a few of these, the only problem I get is when it’s not 1v1. If they’re a duo or a group and I get rooted, that HB stings…
1v1 is fairly straightforward. I run a condition build, 0,0,6,4,4, i don’t switch to stone heart. I’ll open with lightning flash into air 5, i never use rtl > air 5 as everyone dodges now. Then i’ll lay down some fire. Depending on what he does next i’ll usually arcane shield so I can apply the whole of fire 2 onto him and then i’ll switch to earth and kite.
You can root and then run around spamming earth 1 and it’ll keep hitting him behind you. Just watch for the stuns/earchshakers/shield charges. Once fire is up i’ll just make him run through some more flames. I don’t really use lighting whip as it puts you too close, it’s all about kiting/snares.
I use speed signet, as it’s useful as a blind and a stun break. A warrior fight is never a short fight. I know i’ll have to work through 2 endure pains.
I run with 20k hps and 900 healing, so i’m not going to be 100-0 in one shot, so even if he does get off one burst I can usually get back to full health after 1 water rotation. I’ve found warrior fights far easier since I switched to conditions spec.
If i’m feeling lazy i’ll just use FGS, hit 2 and make him stand in it. Then just fgs 3 through him, then spam 1 as he chases me and it shoots backwards.
I love diamond skin. It punishes those who choose to go cheesy all out condi builds hoping to 1 button their foe to death.
It won’t work in pvp or WvW, sorry dude.
Reasons being : No healing and no multiple condition clears means you just won’t stand up to any damage. Also you have 0 stability and no arcane shield/lightning flash so no getting out of a sticky situation.
If you want burning to work, you need to be able to apply 4 more conditions on top of it to stop it being cleared. Undead runes just don’t work.
Only fight against groups okitten, that way you’ll only last 2-3 seconds.
Those things you listed are more of a universal counter for everyones abilities. Those counter elementalists as well.
There’s nothing specifically in game that messes with initiative regen. You get a free immunity to one of the most disabling conditions in the game.
Chill is doubly punishing on eles since having 20 skills to fire off was countered by having utility level cooldowns on many of them.
If chill effects our class mechanic it should effect everyones class mechanic.
So one out of the seven F1’s is a bit subpar, on a weapon which gives insane mobility on low cooldowns.
Oh yeah, I can see how that should be a priority.
So the counter to initiative is…..
Oh that’s right, nothing.
Re: OP.
I think you’ll find even if you go d/d 2,6,6 with the condi removal signet and ether, it won’t be enough to beat a condi spammer class.
The only way I can beat engis, p/d thieves is by going diamond skin. It’s just not possible to keep up the amount of clearance compared to the amount of repeat condition application they have. When thier auto attack applies a condition every 1/2 a second, just no way you can keep that cleared.
Just to join in, i’m glad you were destroyed playing a p/d thief.
You play the cheesiest lamest spec in the game, and still do badly and come here to complain about it. That there shows what sort of a player you are.
Btw, it’s easy to avoid being hit by lich projectiles, you don’t even have to use dodges. Of all the things in this game, Lich form damage is somewhere at the bottom.
Atunement swapping also triggers confusion damage. Which is pretty annoying.
I’m thinking of rolling a new ele as a charr race and using the Elite gun as the fire damage seems great +1200 range
I didn’t see this post. Thanks for that, phaeris. I wasn’t aware people had been using my setup. Glad to see you achieved something from it!
Hey! yeah, I’m Constantine on Deso. The build is quite the thing, it’s a joy to encounter p/d thieves now (just so many…..) and the pop gun spamming engis, I don’t think any of them expect condition eles at all.
My friend (kestir, who’s playing a condi mesmer now) and I beat a 10 man yesterday as they tried to take the lord in Bay. It works so well.
I roam solo alot, or small man. Up until yesterday I was running a 0,0,2,6,6 build, power based and I enjoyed it alot.
After playing for a few hours I encountered nothing but p/d perplexity spec thieves, perplexity 1 button spamming engineers, condi necros, condi mesmers, crossfire spamming rangers….just hardly any non condi classes.
On a whim I switched to Broskis spec and gear, and the fights went from being a pain in the kitten to their total obliteration. I had a p/d thief complain at me for 10 minutes that I was lame for taking diamond skin, and had no skill as he couldn’t counter this.
I still don’t like conditions though, I think the game rewards too much passive play. When in rome though….
Play a proper thief spec instead of a condi pew pew build. You deserve to be destroyed for even running that build.
My biggest annoyance with warriors is their ability to exit the battle when they hit 20 percent (same with thieves).
Couple of days ago I bowed to a warrior I beat because it was the first time in ages one actually stayed around to the end of a 1v1. It’s just too easy for these classes to get away.
Hmm..
So you have no video of it in action..fine.
At least give the up points and down points of the build and ways in which it’s superior to the current cantrip 0,2,0,6,6 build variants?
Not saying it doesn’t work, but a bit more info than just throwing out a build and saying how great you are and they saying if the build isn’t working for you maybe you’re not very good would be appreciated..
You just have to better on the ele than other classes, it has a higher skill cap and is far les foirgiving of mistakes
Timing.
Don’t just keep dodging, make sure you get an evasive arcana from every dodge. Learn how to dance and position yourself, learn how to root him with earth 3 when he appears. Make him waste initiative. Dont just spam your 1 key and search around, you’ll just get backstabbed. Have arcane shield.
The only thieves I now have issues with are p/d condition/perplexity spammers. But then again who doesn’t with that trash spec.
It’s boring fighting the same two servers who use the same boring tactics week after week. SFR- a blob with no roamers. BB – only fight empty keeps and run at the first hint of an encounter.
I’ve reported this at least a million or two times….it’ll never be fixed and as a class who is dead if you can’t move is the most keyboard smashing bug in the game.
It still amazed me that mesmers were put on the medium hp tables when they have such amazing escapes/invis/evades/blocks etc..
Oh I agree with the necro, my friend plays one. He hates the lack of stability and lack of escapes.
His plague form elite does grant him a tremendous amount of time if he’s focused though. The problem with necros and buffing mobility is you have a potentially 50k hp class (taking ds into account), who can do amazing condi damage, has high armour and then you make them super mobile…..you’ll end up with the warrior mark 2.
Actually swim is right.
Did anyone think ‘Why was the Ele placed behind the ranger as class which needs the most help’?
It’s because it has some nice 1v1 defence, but anything more than that by 2 competent players, the ele will drop. Everyone knows they’re dealing with a class with <20khp and 2600 armour usually. An ele has a few escapes on very long cooldowns, once they’re blown…that’s it. They don’t have an ongoing defensive ability like stealth on demand, or a high hp regen rate or multiple shields. Our only decent elite is good for running away from fights, which is not helpful if it’s a 2v2.
Nice list by the way, how exactly do I get all of those. You see the ele has to pick mobility, or defence. If you pick more mobility skills you are more prone to being quickly focused. If you pick more defense skills, you are easier to catch. Other classes get abilities all packed into whole lines, Eles always have to pick and choose, and always with long cooldowns.
I’ve run both extensively, and used to swear by ether. Lately though (last few months) i’ve been solely using SOR. I run 0,0,2,6,6.
Reason being….thieves. I roam solo alot, and when you begin to cast ether one of two things happen, the thief dazes you, or just spams damage for the time you cast it as you can’t dodge or do anything else. During that time you don’t return any damage. SOR wins every time in this situation.
I have decent condi cleanse with 6 in water/evasive arcana.
Unless you have 4 in earth for the stability ether is a gamble. If you desperately need that much condi cleanse run diamond skin.
@Carighan – as Matt said, there’s no timing involved. Just press all your buttons and win the game. You don’t have to worry about wasting an effect, or timing or an immunity timer. Just non stop root/conditions with no counterplay.
I used to play daoc. Hands down one of the best pvp/rvr games ever. There was cc, with long timers. Their version of root would last 20-30 seconds sometimes. BUT….if you suffered damage the effect would break and then you had a decent length immunity timer. Soft cc like snares you could refresh, but hard cc, roots, mesmerize/stuns, had immunity timers.
At the start of the game they never had immunity timers, so you could spam roots and other cc nonstop effectively immobilising people indefinately. It didn’t take the designers long to realise that this was completely unfair and they put in immunity timers. So you had to plan your cc, and who to hit and when.
No one like stacking immobilise. It rewards mindless spamming and poor gameplay.
Since chill effects Ele’s I don’t really see why thieves are immune.
It should slow initiative regen, plain and simple.
As above said, you should be happy the best essential traits all fall into two lines.
As for fast hands?
That should be a grandmaster trait for how good it is.
You’re probably starting too early. Also don’t press any direction keys after you start. Let the combo land before you move again. I used to do that, it’s just a timing thing.
Every blob is the same Darya, but different servers have different soloers and small mans to fight which are more fun.
It would nice to not be vs the same servers almost every week….
I agree. I run with 2400 armour. With wvw buffs I sit at 20k hps. I’m finding this much more effective than when I had lower vitality and 3k armour. Alot of class abilities kick in when you’re under a certain percentage of health, so a bigger vitality pool lowers the chance of that occuring, especially if you add in condition damage as it isn’t affected by toughness.
Just burn them all down with aoes.
Focus the mesmer at all times, don’t waste time on phantasms. I run higher water, so i cleanse on switching to it and can free myself up from most immobilises. If not i’ll use lighting flash to get out of it, you remain immobilised, but he can’t flurry you.
Which is why I like 30 arcane better, you just get more aoe, more condi cleanses. It’s what you want, more power? or more defensive abilities. I do better with 0,0,2,6,6 than i did with higher offensive specs.
@panic – The only way to knock a thief out of SR is if you port in as soon as he casts it and hit updraft. So you have to 1) Have updraft up, 2) not have air atunement on a cooldown longer than a few seconds 3) Have SR cast pretty close to you 4) If it isn’t close have teleport up as well. If it were so easy to knock thieves out of SR it wouldn’t be on every single thieves bar.
Oh, as for anti-thief builds I play as 0,0,2,6,6 with a slightly more offensive template and I run arcane shield, lightning flash and armour of earth.
Arcane shield – a must for fighting thieves.
Lighting flash for so many manouveres.
armour of earth….it’s ok, good for a stun break, I tied running sigil of storms, and using the earth blind field. It’s quite good, but just takes so long to cast.
Nice guide dude, keep up the solid work.
Tei…updraft is 180 radius, so basically melee range.
and on a 40 sec timer. Unless you’re completely certain where the thief is you are wasting a potent ability for the chance of knocking him out his stealth. Better to use it when you’re sure to benefit from it.
@panicbutton.
I played as a d/d thief for 8 months or so, I did ok. In that time, if I used SR i’d never really get hit more than once whilst inside. It’s remarkably easy to avoid things. Even zergs rolling over where they think you were, just stand on the very edge, or look where the guy is going and don’t be in that spot. Even if I was hit and down low either my heal would be up, or i’d have enough stealth time to walk away from the fight. Decent thieves do not die in SR.
I’ve become much better at fighting thieves on my ele. I’ve consistantly beaten/forced into refuge(never to be seen again) thieves I would lose to before. I think it’s mainly due to the fact that instead of just spamming abilities in the hope I would hit something that might be there i’m now saving abilities and timing dodge rolls well. If a thief catches you with your atunements down (so to speak) it can be game over.
The shroud is super annoying. At the point a thief goes into shroud i consider it a win. After all, if I summon a FGS and zip away for 20 seconds to get all my health back, that would be me running away?
So deciding to go invis and not engage for 20 secs is much the same thing.
Shadow refuge- aoe invis, heals you up, then gives you another 12 secs invis on top of that with a 1/4 sec cast time. on a 60 sec timer.
It’s just such a good ability, when compared to literally any other ability for any class, what it does for what the cooldown is, is just ridiculous. It’s better than alot of elite skills even. Basilisk venom should have been a reg utility poison on a 60 sec timer, and shroud should have been a 90 second elite.
I know the radius is meant to be 180, but it seems like you basically have to dodge roll on top of them for the blind to hit.
Maybe making it a little bigger to allow for ease of use?
Is that unreasonable?
Tears of joy.
Even after playing against the Baruch and SFR double team, even after being accused of being a PVE only server, even after coming up from silver league we still came second.
How did it feel Baruch to be turned on by SFR in those last days after they realised Deso was closing the gap and the only way to stop them was end the alliance.You couldn’t even come second when SFR handed it to you.
Looks like you’ll probably have a chance to do it again in the next match up though.Question is, will you suckle at the sfr teet or will you actually stand up to mummy this time?
I’ve seen more s/d’ers recently/LS spammers.
Best way to counter this is just time your dodges well. The more I fight thieves the better i’ve become at mentally counting when they’re going to come out of stealth. The spamming 1 endlessly looking for them in stealth is more likely to get you backstabbed.
Better to wait, then time a dodge or a burning evade.
Biggest issue I face is shroud. Fought some s/d thief yesterday, had him down to 10 percent 3 times and had him go into shroud 3 times. That ability has a way too short cooldown for what it does.
No stability = no point holding/being knocked down and killed/being feared 100 times off points/ledges.
Look at it this way. Does the spike dps you gain from the arcane abilities = the damage and point holding you could have gained from not being cc’d.
Conditions are too plentiful, too easy to spam and do too much damage.
It’s horribly obvious. Look at EB, SFR hasn’t touched any of BB’s stuff, and is holding half of Desos letting BB keep the other half.
Like I said, it may be a legit tactic, but honestly it’s better to lose than be someones B****.
After yesterdays thrashing this morning it’s been:
SFR – ‘Look guys, we tried to double team Deso with you yesterday, and they destroyed us at every turn, so we’ve come up with a new plan. We’re just going to give you all the keeps in our lands and not attempt to take anything back from you. That way you we don’t actually fight Deso in any way shape or form, it’s just you vs empty keeps and towers. Is that ok? Do you think you can do that??’
Baruchbay- ‘Hodor!’
Well i’m in work currently, where as my friend was actually in game. Now considering I posted about that incident before Argon did it’s unlikely i’m just agreeing.
But i’m sure it never happened, or happened however the way you wanted it to happen and that SFR isn’t leading around Baruch like a small child.
See that’s funny, because my friend was there for that. He said after BB failed to do anything by themselves, SFR tried blocking our reinforcements to give BB a better chance of taking it. When that didn’t work you straight up zerged the garrison, clearing it out and didn’t cap.
You then left the garrison and didn’t touch BB as they went in to cap it.
There’s a big difference between that and 2 people trying to attack a keep at the same time and one caps before the other.
The fact you don’t understand where the lack of honour is in double teaming goes to show exactly why Baruch is such a stain.
This previous match our commander comes into map and says ‘Elona just messaged him and asked if we wanted to double team with them against Riverside’. His response?…‘Are you having a laugh?, Because you asked that we’re going to target you even more than Riverside.’
That’s the difference between us and you.
So this just happened, from my friend who’s in game currently.
‘Amazing double team going on – we got 11k ahead of BB mainly due to some superb control over night, SFR and BB now in our lands – we held the garrison from BB for over an hour, SFR come in from the other side, blockade all our doors and still we held BB so BB moved out, SFR killed us then walked out and let BB cap it….incredilble’
Pathetic.