Guild Wars 2

You give up nothing as a warrior whatever spec you run. That’s the problem, even with full Zerk gear you have 20k+ hp and close to 3k armour. Everyone else teeters on 12-13k hp and 2k armour and doesn’t have a constant health regen of 700 every few seconds.

Your adrenal is basically on a 7 sec timer, where other peoples abilities sit on 25 second timers.

I revisited my warrior (my first 80) just now in spvp, full zerk, the only time i died was when i would test myself against 3-4 players. I fought a thief and didn;t even bother to move and still won. Healing signet is just far too strong an ability when combined with your naturally high armour and hp totals. You have no trade off. You have access to range, mobility, high dps, cc imunity, condition duration reduction immunity. It’s crazy.

Name.9625:

Are you seriously trying to troll the warrior community?

I want to see your proof of how that warrior comes up with 20k HPS

And killshot requires you to channel for 1.75s, which leaves you absolute vulnerable to everything….

Actually I was wrong, he had 22khps. To prove it just press play on the video, and look at his hps…. :/

You’re right though, with those 22k hps he better be careful as 2 thieves might choose to backstab him simultaneously, or even worse 2 other rifle warriors might be lining up killshots on him, because with 22k hps no one is taking you down before that shot it fired.

Because there’s so much incentive and gameplay designed around 1v1 right?

If I wanted to win 1v1 i’d play a PU mesmer or a perp p/d thief and cheese my way to victory.

Glass being 20khps and 2390 armour i presume, so…so glassy….

Which in most other classes would be considered alot of vitality and ok toughness.

If you have one ability on a near 7 sec cooldown which hits for 15k and upwards at 1500 range then running away or not people are going to fall over, no other class has that capability at that range for so little sacrifice, that’s the issue here. Where is your sacrifice?

Haha, how about I turn that on it’s head.

If you’re unable to land a killshot as a warrior then you’re also terrible. Is it really that hard to land a killshot? The guy in the video had no issues, just time the evades and how can you miss? Did every class get infinite dodges or did I miss a patch?.

Your statement tells me all I need to know about your idea of balanced though.

Oh really, even with full zerk/signets and food all cooldowns activated i’d be happy to backstab someone for 13-14k on soft/medium armour targets when i ran my thief. What range is that killshot? Why, it’s a 1500 range ability? Oh look he has 20k hps!, the thief equivalent, (not that he could reach that damage at that range) would be 12kps and base toughness.

Whats that? Oh, yes, you infact have the strongest ranged ability in the game at the highest range.

Really Warlord?

Warriors have no ranged capabilities? Someone must have forgotten to tell the 5-10 hambow warriors I see every single spvp match.

Makes sense that a heavy armour class with highest health pools gets access to a 1200 range ability weapon which can aoe every 7 seconds(traited) when an elementalists meteor shower is on a 30 second timer.

Or the fact that earthshaker is also basically on a 7 sec timer, yet equivalent skills on other classes are on 40 second timers…

It’s just far too easy for warriors to accumulate adrenaline, and adrenal abilities are on much too short of a cooldown. Earthshaker and combustive shot are FAR superior abilities to all the other hammer/bow skills, yet are on a significantly shorter timer.

I’ve just started playing an ele, but from my thief and guardian gameplay i think ele’s need all the buffs they can get.

Eles we’re 2nd only to rangers in terms of free loot bags in my roaming experience.

The gap between eles and say…warriors in terms of survivability/mobility/damage/defence is so SO huge you guys shouldn’t be complaining about getting buffs.

You’re the only class who can’t make any decent condition spec either it seems, and considering the meta is completely condition dominated, and you’re a low hp, low armour class, a boost is in order after your previous nerfs.

This warlord.

“warriors are tanky because they are heavy armor warriors and they do good melee damage because they are the purest melee DPS class in the game”

So that’s your justification for warriors being extremely tanky whilst being able to put out great damage.

Sorry to burst your bubble, but that’s more of a statement, not really a reason. That’s like me saying, Thieves should be able to kill anyone they want to and get away every time because they’re thieves.,

Ahaha, a longbow warrior with hs..

Well you’ve positively shattered the meta, go flex in the mirror and pat yourself on the back.

ahh cool, will give those all a shot

Basically what the title says.

Obv a condition build, so in your opinions what gives the best bang for my buck?

Thanks in advance for replies.

I rolled and kitted a mesmer for my small man, but it was so boring to play. Yes it has some nice things and invisibility etc, but still ultimately dull imho.

Engineer though….just so much fun and utility, it really is the extension king in fights.

Coming from a d/d thief perspective.

Elementalists honestly weren’t an issue. I did meet a few d/d eles who were really good and a struggle, but if i didn’t kill you in my first two assaults combos, ie if you dodged avoided my initial combos and the follow ups i won’t stick around. I’ll just run and reset, since my ability to chain another combo is up in 20 seconds then comeback.

Downside is I have practically no toughness and 14k hps, but I can drop most classes with under 20k hps with a few backstab combos quite quickly, unless they were really good (or an engi with his elite up.)

Since i’m playing an ele now (thieves can’t do a great deal in zerg vs zerg/keep takes/defence), my advice for anyone fighting d/d thieves:

1) If you see a d/d thief they have to get into 900 as a rule to open with a steal+cloak and dagger+basilisk venom. Then they’ll get behind you and go for the backstab. Try to time a dodge roll/immunity right and it denies the initial burst entirely or hit mist as soon as you get stunned to deny follow up.

2) Thieves get no stability, knockdowns are our bane and very few carry more than 1 stunbreak.

3) D/d thieves need to hit things to stealth off, so stay mobile and lay down damage for them to walk through.

4) Keep swinging and backing up, you’ll hit them in stealth still.

5) A stealth from a cloak and dagger lasts 4 seconds.

6) Immobilise really ruins thieves day and stops heartseeker spammers.

7) If they do shadow refuge keep laying down the damage, but if you don’t get them don’t stick around as they’ll either be back at full health or long gone.

I’ll admit it’s not easy. Then again i’ve had warriors absolutely destroy my thief in 5 seconds, or shatter mesmers burst me down if they get the drop. It’s kind of an all or nothing situation.

Ok.

The key is to not fight in the blinding powder. They get about 4 secs on stealth if they heartseeker out. They will advance towards you and try and get to the back, so the key is to keep swinging auto and tehn land a c+d off them whilst they are in stealth.

Then they will come out of stealth, at this point you can launch into a steal+mug+c+d+backstab combo. With my build, if I connect they die. Or they’ll drop another blinding field and try to do the same. Then you do the same, c+d off them whilst they’re in stealth or c+d off an object/mob to stealth yourself.

Since im running 30,30,10,0,0 i’ve had far less trouble with d/p thieves. They were actually more of an issue when I ran 0,30,30,10,0 as I just didn’t have the burst. Now with buffs and stuff up I have an attack power of 4k+ when I unload, and that’s enough to oneshot any thief as a rule.

p/d is pretty dull though. You gradually wear your opponents down. Btw, unless you use venomshare+thieves most warriors will out regen your damage.

Also you’ll have a hard time with decent ele’s (due to cleanse).

Most other classes will be straightforward. If they stay and fight. You won’t be killing anyone very quickly. So hard to pick people off from zergs and escape.

But yes, it’s very survivable.

I just can’t be doing with d/p. I can’t stand not having c+d access.

Or having the c+d+steal combo available, to chain a huge backstab off of it.

D/p thieves do give me some hassle, but due to my damage being so huge, it becomes a reactionary game, as if they put one foot wrong i can take them from 100-0 in one combo.

Heh. Ok, here’s what I always say to people in games like this. If you’re playing other classes and don’t seem to do very well, then pick class X, and all of a sudden you’re performing amazingly, it’s not you.

Not that I’m saying this is what occurred with you…. but it’s an easy way to tell if a class/spec is op’d.

Qaelyn, people prefer that playstyle because it’s easier. Like all things in life people gravitate to what is most effective yet easiest to play. The path of least resistance.

When a PU mesmer beats me, i’m generally like ‘Just another PU mesmer….meh.’. When a thief/engineer/ele beats me, i’m usually ‘That guy was pretty kitten ed good.’

That’s the difference. Skill caps. PU mesmer has low skillcaps. Classes like D/d eles have high skillcaps. That’s why I see one very good d/d ele to every shedload of similar skilled PU mesmers.

You don’t have to be ashamed of playing it dude, you have to play whatever style suits your ability. You just have to accept the fact that you’ll be PU mesmer #38913890213.

PU mesmers are extremely easy to play, probably strongest and easiest class to do well 1v1 with. Just whittle down your opponents health whilst staying in stealth.

Honestly though….it’s boring. I can see why people play it, they don’t have the ability to do well with high risk, high return burst classes. It’s the go to spec for them.

I tried it for a little, but after one play session instantly switched to the burst shatter spec, big numbers! pretty fragile!, but oh so much more fun rather than ‘watch my bleeds/torment/confusion moderately slowly kill you…weeeee….’

Also…pretty poor in zerg fighting, you’re just a leech.

Depends on the sort of fight you want.

Currently i’m running burst spec. In a good hit, when Mug+c+d+backstab+sigil hits all at once it can spell the end of glassy players.

My aim is to finish people asap and get away in wvw, as there’s always someone coming.

On my old spec of 0,30,30,10,0 My fights tended to be more drawn out, so that sigil may have been more useful.

As pointed out, this is the build I played when I wanted a ‘survivable’ build.

My current man mode (which is alot of fun), is 30,30,10,0,0. No shadow step.

There’s a huge element of joy in 1-2 shotting other players.

It’s made me alot better at daggers and using my shortbow. Downside is you are oh so squishy. If a fight isn’t going your way after the first few hits then get the hell out of dodge.

As a d/d thief I have to say the only problems i have with warriors since the patch are the mobile ones, and that’s because they’re too mobile to catch up when they see they’re losing the fight.

Some classes just can’t beat other classes set ups. I can rarely beat decent PU mesmers, the majority I end up retreating as I can just never get that edge, a good(if you call perplexity spamming good), engineer is a bit of a nightmare fight and I can’t afford to make a single mistake.

Warriors are just very straightforward to handle, keep blind up and don’t get hit, if they switch to bow use whirling axe.

So my advice is after a few hits you can determine if the thief is a decent player or is just zerg fodder. If he’s decent just keep on moving, he can’t catch up to you. Sorry.

Pyroatheist.9031:

People still did the combo after the CnD nerf.

The signet change ultimately increased the damage from the combo, not decreased, if you actually run the numbers.

The mug change was the only nerf that actually affected the combo, but ultimately mug was only roughly 10%-20% of the total damage in the combo, making that nerf comparatively small to the rest of it.

Heartseeker is not part of the combo, and was not nerfed when used after this combo was executed. It was nerfed at high hp levels.

Again, hilarious. I like how on explaining how c+d went from hitting for 5-8k to a 1/3 less on a skill which costs 6 initiative doesn’t somehow effect the combo.

You’ll also find that the signet is in fact now the only signet which has a better effect on damage if you don’t activate it!. Amazing! If you press it you actually decrease your damage output!

Also mug really? It used to crit and hit for 5k, now it barely makes 1.5-2k on a soft target.

Keep trying though.

Hmm, nothing changed about the old abilities?

so C+D didn’t have 33 percent of its damage removed?

The mug nerf?

Heartseeker damage nerf?

Signet nerf?

…So yes, you’re basically correct, no abilities at all recieved any changes…

Pyroatheist.9031:

Qaelyn.7612:

Lys.8621:

Easy to play and extremely rewarding = Cheese

You’re entitled to your opinion. I’m still going to use whatever works best to kill you as quickly as possible.

You can adapt to it, or complain about it on the forums, whichever you find more effective.

Best post in this whole thread right here.

This exemplifies the play style of someone who wants to win, not someone who wants to complain, and that is the difference.

Ha, the whole ‘adapt rule’ (or as people more commonly know it L2P!!) was what all the thieves used to write when they could insta-gib people with the old abilities, or when stealth had no reveal debuff so you could kill someone and stay stealthed almost permanently.

Or when people used to complain about crossfire spam, rangers were all like ‘hey! just adapt to it!!’

Or when in beta guardians were nigh unkillable?…..

When people use the L2P argument it generally means something is pretty kitten ed strong (cough hambow pre patch cough).

Doesn’t mean it’s smart. You just want to win easily. Zerker/glass setups are high risk high return. Cheese setups are low risk/high return.

It’s the reason we saw so many hammer/bow warriors. And why we see perplexity spamming engineers. People just want to play with builds that are currently very strong and give the lowest risk/highest reward ratio, despite how boring the mechanic involved is.

You can keep telling yourself that ’It’s stupid not to play the easiest spec.‘, maybe in the overall scheme of things it isn’t, but you won’t really stand out as anything different, you’ll just be PU mesmer number 12213. If that floats your boat then more power to you.

If you’re relying on using direct damage you’ll never win. High toughness combined with almost 100 percent uptime of protection means the damage they take will be tiny.

You’re only hope is to be a high toughness/condition build yourself. So fight cheese with cheese and claim a hollow feeling victory afterwards. As a thief I just run past and leave them alone, it’s a pointless exercise. Or i run a supremely cheap no skill condition spamming pistol/dagger spec.

Abilities as strong as PU should have internal timers.

It should be unbreakable.

You can’t remove moa form using condition removal? Why can you remove basilisk?

Moa is a 10 second death sentence if you don’t dodge.

I don’t understand where anet want thieves. They’re clearly not a support class, apart from venom share (a top tier trait), none of the thief abilities or weapon skills are group oriented.

The role of a thief is meant to be high single target damage and lots of escapes, this counters our very low hps/fragility. By nerfing stealth/vigor gain/introduction of abilities like sic em (really??? an ability designed specifically to negate thieves? Can we have an ability specifically to negate 30 clones or aoe condition spam??), they have eliminated this balance.

Now single target damage of pretty much every class is on par with the thief, yet they retain high armour/hp tables. I was up against a guardian who shredded my hitpoints with a few aoes, he didn’t even have to aim. To get the same damage i need to be in stealth and behind him.

None of our abilities really have utility, they’re just dps in another form. The only decent form of buff rip was nerfed into the ground.

The thief is great for killing up levels, or horrible players. Yet you go up against a well geared/played class of any other kind, chances are the effort you have to make as a thief will be 10x that of the other guy.

JUst ran about with it.

Good points:
1) Very easy to kill mesmers with it.
2) Can probably win most 1v1s with thieves up.

Bad points:
1) Relies alot on thieves being up. When they’re down the damage is average.
2) No ways to get your initiative back. Can be quite initiative hungry.
3) Not that great for multiple foes as it’s quite sluggish movement wise.
4) Slow!!!, I’m used to travellers runes on my other set, so i had to plug in the 25 percent speed ability, which is a waste of a slot.

All in all a nice build to beast single targets, but reliant on timers, and not great at taking multiples.

Nice.

As a d/d though, whenever I see thieves guild I just c+d repeatedly until they timeout . It’s silly to fight someone when they have guild up. Also that just keeps clearing conditions.

Might pull out the old condi armour and give it a run though.

Against PU mesmers (approx 90 percent of them who roam solo):

Basically just C+D non stop until you can set up a backstab, then c+d again and repeat.

Don’t be tempted into heartseeker spam unless he’s really low, as you’ll get caught in a shatter combo. Only come out of stealth to c+d or backstab, that’s it.

The fight takes so long, it’s honestly just tedious. PU gives them aegis,regen and protection everytime they stealth.

If they’re a scepter user watch for scep block, and don’t backstab until scep block is down.

You can easily tell who the real one is by the buffs, only the real mesmer will have food buffs etc.

All in all…..don’t bother. The PU spec is pretty cheesy, giving the best 3 buffs in the game every time you enter stealth…. Takes way too long to deal with. By the time i’ve dealt with one PU mesmer I could have killed 7 other people.

Greatsword/power build mesmers:

Much easier, just avoid the shatters, and they tend to be far less tanky, and have less escapes.

IF your heal and abilities are on cooldown, don’t re-engage, back off, as I can guarantee unless it’s a duel, as soon as it looks like you’re winning he’ll run. He has better escapes than you so there’s no way you can catch him so don’t worry.

Edit: OR….just change from d/d to a cheese perplexity spamming p/d condi spec thief
and kill them like that, it’s far easier since they really don’t get much condition clear.

It’s a once trick pony.

Since it relies on thieves guild, if that’s not up, then it doesn’t do anything much.

Kind of like going full signet and zerker build, when everything is up you do a serious spike, if you don’t kill them in that spike the you have to turn tail and run, since you’re squishy as hell.

The benefit of HiS is a heal, 3 condition removal and 4 secs of stealth. It is just so good the venom pales incomparison. Healing isn’t just about the raw heal, it’s about the damage you’ve avoided by losing 3 conditions.

You’re build is an all or nothing type build, if it works you’ll demolish someone, but one mistake, or if you’re against a decent player who can kite, you’ll be over my friend.

Problems:

It’s a rather glassy build, with very few escapes. Necros/mesmers/condition engis/bleed warriors will eat you alive.

This is the problem with venoms, they’re fine if you’re running in a group, but solo they just take up valuable slots. The healing back from them is pretty poor. Shadow rejuv is guaranteed healing every second in stealth.

Sorry dude, prove me wrong, make a video, but it has some glaring holes i’m afraid.

Ha!, I sense so much anger!

If I were a warrior i’d be embarrassed to admit a thief could beat me. In fact when I used to play warrior (dual swords/bow condi banner regen), the only issue I had with thieves was when they ran away after failing to drop my health below 80 percent and I couldn’t catch up.

Mesmer is pretty much regarded as the strongest 1v1 class in the game. Someone did a rough poll on all the class boards, mesmers pretty much stated the only other classes they have issues with are other mesmers and condi engineers. I could play as a cheesey perplexity p/d spamming thief build and win like that, but who wants to play that dull set up.

Don’t be so angry at your hammer nerf, you still have healing signet.

From a thief perspective…warriors just became a whole lot easier to fight. The difference was just so apparent.

Now if only they’d nerf mesmers….

Julie Yann.5379:

In WvW if a thief dies to a hammer warrior, he seriously need to L2P. Blind is the hammer’s biggest weakness. Avoid shadow refuge if you can, you are just a sitting duck in one of those and like you said, avoid getting locked down.

The hammer itself is not OP. Like it has be said, it’s the traits which stack together that make it OP. Taking a good look at the proposed nerfs, it is clear that Anet is reacting to the PvP Hambow which deals a ridiculous amount of punishment. I guess it easier to destroy the build than to fix it.

Oh how I love that style of answering. If a hammer warrior dies to a thief he seriously need to L2P. See how easy that is?. Can’t beat me? l2P! it’s obviously you!.
I don’t really need to argue as Anet themselves have said the hammer delivers too much damage for a Control based weapon.

I bet if they suddenly upped static field damage to 4k on an elementalist there’d be an uproar! Or lowered the cooldown from 40 seconds to 7 seconds….

Adrenaline regen is so much that your F1 abilities are basically a 6th ability on a 7 sec cooldown(with trait). If earthshaker were an actual ability no way would it be that low of a cooldown. It’d be on a 30-40 second timer at least and 1/4 of the damage.

If you find post patch you’re not as effective the hammer was op and you’re a bad player. If you still find you’re effective then you’d be a good player with whatever weapon set.

It just takes time with decent ones.

C+d, backstab, dodge.

That’s it. Time it right, don’t rush. Very hard to beat a necro quickly.

Really?

Having an aoe 2 second stun leap atttack which does 4k+damage, is ground targetted, and is up every 7 seconds on a very tanky class isn’t op’d?

Really??

When I go 1v1 with a hammer warrior on my thief, the name of the game is just don’t get hit. If you miss just one dodge or c+d the hammer chain can take you from 100-0 in a 3-4 swings. A class with that much durability should only be putting out those numbers when it specs a zerker build, not when it can spec toughness and wear pvt.

Anti stealth is basically anti thief.

There’s no other mechanic in the game which targets a specific classes ability.

WHy don’t we get a penetrating armour ability, as every mesmer i fight seems to have 100 percent uptime on protection?

Congrats to being bottom of the heal pile with thieves.

At least you were at the top for a brief time.

Ok..but why would a thief be in the front line?

But why would you need healing at the start of a bomb?

Thats the problem,. healing comes 1/3-1/2 way trhough the fight, not at the very start.

So venom at that point is useless.

lollers, venom share

You know venom share has a radius of 350

how many times is your whole team in a 350 radius.

so what purpose is the thief one?

The radius is just too small.

The only time your team is near you is at the very start of the battle, when you don’t need any healing at all.

It’s just SO badly thought out.

So if I attack a necro (who are already tanky), I’ll open with a c+d then into a backstab.

I’ll then auto a few times until the next c+d.

Every 2 attacks (double strike hits twice), i’ve healed him for 900 and done 1k damage to myself. That’s without him trying to attack me at all.

Necros are ridiculous enough once they go plague form i’m hitting for 200-300.

The only thing they’ll lose is a big emergency heal, so are more vulnerable to spike damage. As for sustain they’ll be just crazy.

The worst part is it’s a passive heal. Ours is on a 45 second timer.

I can’t see any spec apart from d/d being able to even dent necros now. Any class which isn’t huge spike won’t even be able to shift their health bars. Necros have just become the new warrior if that change goes through.

They are really pushing the venom build.

Venemous aura has a radius of 360. So people basically have to be standing next to you for it to work.

How many thieves are durable enough to stand in the front line with their tougher team mates.

It’s so bad on so many levels. Venoms are so poorly designed.

Venemous aura should have a 1200 radius, prioritising your teammates. 360 is just too small for it to be vaguely useful.