I think some of the abilities need a rework.
Death blossom is a strange out of place skill. Low damage, condition with a very short evade. No one ever uses it as for the initiative it takes, the return is super poor. you’re also vulnerable during the last half of it. It’s in a weapon line which favours Power/precision and no condition. So will never hit for alot.
It should really just be replaced entirely with something more fitting to dagger dagger/power/prec skills. Or maybe something more utility.
Not had a problem with this yet, maybe because I don’t encounter very many as 90 percent of warriors are hammer in WvW.
The ones I do face…, just don’t rush.
I’m d/d, but I run d/p second set mainly for pistol 3 and black powder.
When fighting after the first steal + c+d, i’ll test the waters for a backstab. If the guy is pretty good at avoiding it, i’ll just circle him, and wait for the next c+d, throw in some autos for poison, and then dance some more. Use basilisk venom as it;s cooldown is low and guarantees you a backstab at some point.
If he does switch to LB, then use the stolen. Or just evade into him for a c+d. and avoid LB 3 and the F1. I’ll sometimes throw in d/p 3 to get the ranged blind and some autos, then switch back.
It’s never a quick battle, but just rely on keeping him blinded, poisoned and never use heartseeker (unless he’s on 5 percent health and running).
Let’s compare Backbreaker and earthshaker:
Backbreaker – 24 seconds traited, single target, 2 second knockdown, goes on full cooldown if you miss. 554 damage. 130 range.
Earthshaker – 7 seconds traited, aoe, 600 range, 2 second stun, doesn’t go on full cooldown if you miss, 462 damage.
You can do 3 1/2 earthshakers whilst waiting for backbreaker to be back up.
Earthshaker mechanic means the damage is applied after the stun, so you always activate unsuspecting foe and damage bonus traits.
It’s just a massively better skill. The timer should be the other way around.
Adrenaline is so easy to generate it has turned F1 into a 6th skill with a 7 second cooldown (in hammer builds). Every other class has at least 15 seconds -45 seconds to pull out the F1 equivalents.
As Jae said, it is the damage.
Earthshakers are hitting for 4k+ plus a 2 second stun in an aoe every 7 seconds.
Hammer was a control weapon, which is why it had the stuns/knockbacks.
Greatsword/axe are damaging weapons, so really very little cc.
You see the reasoning?
Out of all the classes i found warrior the easiest to play and do well at.
The thing is you have so much room for error. The high hps, armour and health regen mean if you miss a dodge roll or fail to land a style, doesn’t matter too much.
Other classes….miss that dodge and it’s game over.
When I fight other classes, i find that maybe 5 percent of elementalists are amazing, the rest are fodder, same with rangers, engineers, necros, thieves and guardians to an extent.
Mesmers are pretty strong on all levels, but when you get someone good on them they’re ridiculous.
Every warrior seems to be of similar skill level, which I believe is because they have a very low skill cap.
I’m super impressed you took the time to do that.
Yet saddened by how true that is.
Ahh, thanks, that explains it.
It’s a shame the smallest of rocks seem to give the obstructed message :/
So is it just me or after using steal at times will it reset the timer (using the steal), and you end up with no ability.
I’m pretty sure i’m not spamming it.
Or is this occuring due to an evade/block? (which I assume it is).
Really?
Are some of you really in denial about how strong hammer has become?
In the last few weeks of WvW i see 80 percent hammer/longbow warriors, 20 percent everything else.
But why wouldn’t you as a warrior. The weapon does the best damage with the best cc out of all the weapons in the game. Aoe cc+ huge damage, on a 7 second timer. (when isn’t the adrenaline bar full?), not only that, if you miss the earthshaker, you get to try again and again until you land it every 7 seconds.
I switched from warrior to thief a month ago, yesterday another thief backstabbed me for 6k (about the normal), and I backstabbed him back for about the same. A hammer warrior earthshakker’d me for 4.5k, with a 3k follow up hit, yet my backstab did about 3-4k on him. Yet he also gets the bonus of it being a 2 second stun and aoe and using no resources if he misses and being repeatable in 7 seconds.
Even if I said ‘Could you make backstab aoe, 1 second stun, up every 10 seconds, use no initiative and not actually require being behind the opponent, but rather ground targetted’, There would be an uproar.
It wouldn;t be so bad if adrenaline took a little longer to build up, but we all know it pretty much up a few seconds after you enter a fight and then the F1 is back up every seven seconds. It’s like having a 6th ability on a 7 sec timer, an amazing 6th ability.
(edited by phaeris.7604)
I play d/d, and honestly don’t care to much about the upcoming changes (the nerf to opportunist is odd considering how squishy a thief is), but it shouldn’t impact my play much.
I’ve 1v1’d alot and do pretty well considering I didn’t start my thief that long ago. I escape from stuff (zergs, groups) I would never get away from on any other class.
Most of the thieves crying are the d/p stealth spam ones, which I thought was pretty lame tbh. Getting a c+d off someone whilst they are still in stealth is glorious though.
But if you want easy mode mesmer is better for you. Amazing survivability matched with excellent damage and CC. ( yet somehow on the high hitpoint table…).
Thieves pistol :4
Elementalists : dagger 5 updraft,earthquake
Ranger : Longbow 4 (point blank shot).
Necromancer : Pick any of the fears.
Guardian : Hammer 4/bane signet
Engineer : Rifle 4, and other things which fling you around of an explosive nature.
Mesmer : Diversion shatter/stuns/signets…
So….that’s all the classes, in all pretty common weapon lines.
You were saying?
Reason healing signet is overpowered is simply it’s uninterruptible(sp). A huge part of winning fights is figuring out when the opponent is going to go for a heal and interrupting it allowing for the win.
And really Cygnus? You think every other class but the warrior has it easy mode? You even put rangers in your list (Imho the hardest class to do well in pvp/WvW with)…..Of all the classes i’ve tried, warrior takes the least skill, due to sustain and damage output. Everyone else has to gauge the best time to heal/avoid being interrupted. Not warriors!.
Typical fotm reroller attitude and one of the reasons im happy we’re getting nerfed. Better Not gear your necro just yet! You never know which the next target is! Maybe Gear your mesmer instead?
Actually I played warrior from day 1, i’d just never really kitted him out for WvW as I played 100 percent spvp on a warrior pre-buffs.
The healing signet+adrenal health+armour values has just made warriors ott. There’s no trade off in ability. High damage,high sustain! sure! have it all!. Every single other class has to trade off between damage and survivability.
Get kitten y all you want, but I spent a load of gold making my warrior temp’d and i’m glad they’re being balanced, it was just ridiculous the damage and sustain I was capable of.
Oh, I think i’ll roll a thief btw. Now there’s a class who’s received some fine nerfing in the last 12 months.
Re:Cogbyrn : Easy, you stand in front of keeps solo, people leave the keep thinking they outnumber you and when a critical mass forms they’ll chase you. I was running melandru and food buff. I have no idea if they were uplevelled, some probably were? The warrior was definately an 80 (weapons/armour).
He wasn’t an easy fight, it was just longwinded. I felt cheap killing the ranger who ran up to us just as I was downing the warrior, who went down in 4 shots whilst my health stayed at 95 percent.
When people are doing more damage to you from a downed state than when running around, something is wrong.
Anyway, Anet themselves have stated it’s a problem, and I agree.
(edited by phaeris.7604)
Haha, I’m glad I didn’t spend those laurels on my warrior just yet. Although I did get him completely kitted out in exotics… :/
After playing him these last few days in WvW, the only weakness I had was getting kitteny and jumping into 8 people, because I knew there was a good chance I could get someone and get away.
Kited 7 enemies around ogre watch, ended up killing 2, other 5 gave up. The only guy to stay was another hammer warrior, we ended up having a 10 minute fight (which I won), and only reason i could beat him, was because I was a hammer warrior.
I was fully about to do the whole ascended gear etc on my warrior, but even I felt cheap killing with him, it was just too easy with regen and having earthshaker up so often.
For the damage I can output i’m way too tanky.
As I guessed, you’ve never set foot in a pvp/WvW situation.
If the fact I was 2.5 second off on the burst cooldown is the crux of your argument, then this really isn’t an argument anymore.
Unless npcs and mobs begin having the ability to post in the forums no one really cares about the effect of class abilities in PvE.
It doesn’t really matter anyway, I kitted my warrior out with that template last night (only one piece of ascended so far though), and it is truly, truly ridiculous. Nothing is off limits in WvW. My opponent has to make just one mistake and the earthshaker combo does the rest. I’ll ride this Hammer/healing signet train for as long as I can, so you won’t see me posting anymore.
snip
Judging from his posts he’s never stepped foot out of PvE. Which is fine, but having no experience in pvp/WvW mean you can’t really comment on how it is to face off against a Hammer warrior.
So it was 7.5 and not 5. I also don’t know the exact dimensions of the great sword, and how far you can travel in a sing;e rush +sword leap and what’s the optimal colour scheme for a Sylvari. Guess I don’;t know anything about warriors then.
I don’t see you attacking the guy who thought warriors only had 1 blast finisher eh?
I also don’t see you addressing my comments regarding the lack of adrenaline loss on earth shaker misses, or you can run a 20k hps build, with high toughness, 100 percent crit chance, high crit damage, 65 condition reduction, and high power with a constantly ticking uninterruptible healing passive and on whom cc lasts for 1/2 a second if that. (not to mention massive mobility).
It actually is fair..
You see Earthshaker is a warriors only blast finisher so to be able to blast we need adrenaline and should we really use it all to blast?
Do you have any idea how inconvenient that would be for blasting water fields mid fight?
Ofc you do, you play a warrior, right?
If Adrenaline regenerated at a consistent rate instead of relying on hitting/being hit then sure let it but it doesn’t.Oh and just so you know, that 100% crit chance is to stunned targets ok?
But ofc you know this because you play a warrior…So if you choose to run around with no stability then that’s up to you. Just don’t come to the forums and complain when a stun class beats you.
Oh really…so arcing arrow? Not a blast finisher? No adrenaline requirement.
Do you play a warrior?
So it’s ok to use earthshaker infinitely because blast finishers should be free…..
Why is it called a finisher then?
U haven’t met a good ranger then
I’ve fought ALOT of rangers, so guess i’ve just been unlucky. When I played my warrior rangers couldn’t get me down past 80 percent of my health (thankyou new healing signet) . On the thief they’re pretty straight forward to kill, but as you said, maybe I just haven’t met any decent ones.
How do you expect anyone to listen what you say when you barely know how the game works?
Really?
Which part exactly did i get wrong? I’ve probably played more warrior pvp/WvW than you have, and run solo 99 percent of the time, so am fairly well versed on how they work.
So which bit? Oh I see, when you get blocked/evaded the hammer adrenal doesn’t get used up, it’s worse than what i typed. So until you actually connect with it, your adrenal bar stays full. Seems fair….
look at that guys build: http://tinyurl.com/ScarletWarrBuild
20k hps, with that power, and 100 percent crit chance. and having 42 percent damage reduction and he only has 10 points in an offensive mastery line with 30 in a defensive one.
To get close to that with a thief, you’d end up with 12k hps, 15 percent damage reduction, and you’d have no defensive capabilities and you’d have to throw all your points into the power+pres lines.
I’m not even mentioning the near condition immunity thanks to melandru and lemongrass.
Changes which would balance the current Hammer warrior opness.
1) Adrenaline should take longer to accumulate. With current abilities it’s basically always up within the cooldown of an adrenal ability. That’s like giving mesmers shatter every 5 seconds, or thieves the steal ability every 5 seconds.
2) Hammer aoe stun should spend adrenaline if it misses. Currently you just get a 5 second cooldown. If you miss that’s your fault.
3) Healing signet health +adrenal health – completely ridiculous health regen.
Looking at the state of the game I feel thieves need a bit more durability defence wise.
I know we were given the lowest health band with a view to stealth access and blinds, but blinds/stealth don’t really do alot against all the aoe’s.
Let’s face it, there are ALOT of hard hitting aoes now in the game. And alot of chain cc’s. Seems whole host of classes can just drop aoe abilities without being phased by blinds. This is why rangers are such easy targets…..for pretty much everyone.
Yet they gave rangers an anti stealth buff….i’d be more worried about the hammer warrior no. 678 coming to 3 shot you after a leaping hammer stun.
I’ve come to the conclusion that all the people who used to play thieves, now play warriors. The blind defense I hear about Hammer and health regen being balanced and other people needing to L2P is exactly the same as when steal traited with ‘mug’ could hit for 6-8k damage, followed by backstabs for 12-16k.
Even a warrior admitted he thinks the warrior is opd at the moment, and other warriors claim it’s because he’s fighting baddies in his videos.
Hilarious.
Because as a hammer warrior you basically get an aoe stun every 5 seconds. Also it’s not as if the hammer hits for 0 damage.
You know what would make it balanced?
1) Lengthen the adrenal cooldown . It would be different if it took a while to gain adrenaline, but honestly it isn’t.
2) If you miss with the adrenal the adrenaline should be used up. You took the leap, did the action yet there’s no punishment for it. So if someone was coordinated enough to escape the first one, not to worry, you get a do-over in a few seconds.
3) Healing signet…..enough said.
(edited by phaeris.7604)
Why warriors are popular.
1) Easiest class to play and do well at.
2) Massive room for error due to armour values and healing signet.
3) Best Pve class.
4) Best WvW class.
5) Best mobility in game with a weapon which in itself does huge damage.
6) Aoe stuns on a 5 second timer (let’s be real, when isn’t adrenaline at full).
7) Melandru and food means conditions last for about 1 second if that.
8) Takes no effort at all to do well.
That about covers it. ( I do own a warrior, played him since day 1, but now it’s a joke how many are played in WvW and PvE.)
Everyone is a hammer warrior in WvW
It’s the easiest class to play so of course people are going to flock to it. It’s durable, hits very hard, has an aoe stun up every 5 seconds and thanks to healing signet has non stop regen with high hitpoint and high base armour.
On top of that it’s incredibly manouverable.
WvW is a bit of a joke at the moment, unless you’re playing a warrior it seems.
My warrior is a banner spec/apothacary armour wearing healing machine. Since the signet change even I admit it’s pretty ridiculous how much my regen is.
The reason it’s so popular is because it’s just very easy to play with insane survivability and great damage.
Only thing I find is that the hammer hits too hard overall. My warrior is specced LB S/S, pure condition with no power, yet if i switch in a hammer, i still hit pretty hard. I can see why it’s so popular.
It’s so horrible.
So so horrible.
All you can do is spam ‘1’, as nothing else works.
My button mapped to heal is near broken from my rage at spamming it and nothing happening.
WvW is just nonsense at the moment.
What’s it for? Pvp, Wvw or pve?
I’m assuming pve. In which case it’s fine.
WvW, you won’t hit very hard, so hopefully you’ll have someone to do the damage and you’ll just snare/peel.
I don’t know why people use anything but the GS. It’s far and away better than every other weapon we have.
More damage, more mobility, escape tools, ranged snare which hits multiples.
When coupled with frenzy gives the highest single ability burst in the game.
This pretty much shows that the ‘wide choice of weaponry’ for a warrior is a bit of a joke in spvp.
It’s Gs or go home imho
I’ve come away with 25 sec cripples after facing some condition thieves….just insane.
Pve it’s fine.
PvP, it won’t work well. Mainly due to the fact everyone else has great condition cleansers/swappers. Every single class can lose conditions really well whilst damaging you.
All but one….the warrior. So a warrior bleed spec is most effective against…other warriors.
It’s not possible as a warrior.
Any good thief (or any mediocre one) will always be able to avoid your attacks in stealth. Thieves are not predictable. Bad ones are, good ones will never be where you expect them to be.
Combine this with the fact thieves can stay perma stealthed if they want to. They can bleed you down and there’s nothing you can do.
Stealth should break on being hit. It’s not stealth, it’s invisibility. Which is why it’s utterly powerful in this game.
Weren’t you the guy with the unstoppable physical traits warrior build?
Longbow really? and Shouts? I’m honestly suprised you win any encounters.
You will never win against mesmers like that.
My guide to beating mesmers: (i run GS + sword/shield) (i’m rank 30+ btw..but meh, just means lots of time played i suppose, but I always go for 1v1’s if i can instead of going for objectives…..)
1) Save Gs whirl or blade trail to destroy illusions/phantasms.
2)Never use bullsrush+frenzy combo until he’s blown all his tricks or hes <30 percent health.
3) If all the illusions etc start making a beeline for you he’s trying for a shatter combo, save endure pain/shield/dodge roll for this.
4) If he uses sword 2 just dodge roll it or move away. (blurred frenzy)
5) Keep hacking away at illusions as you go past to get to him + phantasms, that is honestly 70 percent of his damage.
6) Sword 2 on you is nice to close gaps quickly followed by shield 4 for a quick stun, he’ll blow an escape just to get away from you.
7)If you get moad (which sadly you will if he has it up), just dodge and try and gain distance/break los, nothing you can do, it’s a bs ability.
8) Stay out of purple fields.
They’re alot of work and waiting for him to use all his abilities. I find 30 in defence line is great for stability and spiked armour. I also run runes which give me protection at 50 percent health for 10 seconds.
Guardians :
1) 2 types – bunkers or offence ones.
2) Bunkers are annoying, just take a long time to get down.
3) Watch for buffs – if you see retaliation up don’t hit them/ Guardians don’t actually hit hard (their button 1), it’s their retaliation/zealots flame/gs spin circle of wrath which does the damage, they don’t even need to target you to do damage as all their stuff is effective in a small circle around them.
4) If they are hitting hard then it means you can hit them hard. This means wait until retaliation is down and until stability is down and when their protection is down (learn what the buffs look like!) then go for the HB+frenzy routine.
5) Use GS whirl/blade to just do damage to them without staying too close, just poke them down whilst they use abilities.
6) Don’t attack when they;re using.
7) If they cast that small dome (not the big one), you can actually stand at the edge and Hb them inside.
8) Do not attack when they have retaliation up. Watch their buffs at all times.
Moderator edit: removed excess caps
(edited by Moderator)
The main problems warriors have is that all other classes abilities have been designed with some pve in mind, and since pve mobs are nearly all melee, these abilities revolve around avoiding melee damage/keeping distance/snaring off melee etc….
Since the only really effective warrior is melee (gtfo rifle/longbow..they’re a joke to face), all these abilities will have far more effect on you than on anyone else. There’s no other class that loses so much dps due to cripple/chilled/immobilise.
The number of conditions being applied in fights is relentless, so abilities like ‘shake it off’ which only remove 1 condition are pretty pointless.
Alot of the guardian abilities would have made more sense on the warrior, and guardians are better when defensive specced, and have more sustained damage when dps specced.
The adrenal abilities are all pretty poor, or easily negated by stability (which there seems to be tonnes of in pvp).
Also…playing a warrior myself, i’ve never ever lost to another warrior, no matter what spec they run. I’m a pretty average player, so this says what sort of state they’re in.
Oh Argis, once I reach that incredibly high skill level then I too will see how a build which is completely negated by stability, a buff which seems to be present on basically every class, is superior.
I too will play tpvp, and instead of defending points everyone will run around as a 5 with complimenting skills to take points from the one guy defending.
How did I not see those gap closers! Shield charge, in case you don’t want to take 2 steps forward, or earth shaker! (because I always have full adrenal bars when i start a fight), bullsrush I give you, but I love that, because it doesnt work on stability.
I too want to play a build where I have to blow every utility to kill someone, and the utility timers are 60 seconds.
Just don’t use 2 axes.
Honestly. I’ve not come across an axe warrior who has been a problem. Literally any other weapon set is better.
Axe 5 is on a huge timer and does so little damage. You are pretty much a sitting duck once you start spinning as well. Axe 4 is rubbish.
Also, you’re so fragile.
Only reason to have an axe is MH axe for eviscerate adrenal burst, then switch back to your other weapon.
Bolas are awful as well. They miss 9/10 times. Only time to use them reliably is when your basically next to someone.
Ahh, I see what you’re doing wrong. Warriors spamming 2.
Considering it makes you stationary, and is only usable every 6 seconds, and only hits those that the warrior is directly on top of, it must mean your not pressing your movement keys.
Havae you tried just walking away when he presses the button?
And that perma stealth? the guy who did the video even says he will never lose 1v1.
“C&D is much cheaper in terms of initiative cost. You can’t really stack stealth constantly like you can with Black Powder + Heartseeker. But if you have good timing, you wouldn’t even show up for 1/10th of a second between C&Ds.
Of course, you still need a target…"
As i’ve pointed out before.
Why would I post a video? Honestly, i’m failing to see why you think it’s so hard to kill people like this.
Hammer warrior? Wow, those are threats are they? That’s news to me.
Actually, if you had bothered to read the thread the guy posted:
“Actually, this build will slaughter most players in 1v1 and 1v2/2v2.
I’ve said this elsewhere, but this is a sPvP backstab build which not only constantly enters stealth, but also spams blinds, condition removal and healing. That’s very resilient for a glass-cannon.
I’m not as bursty as pure precision + power Thieves however, so I can’t win against a full survival build. But such builds are easy to run away from.
So it’s not really all that meta."
“This build is actually a Backstab build. It deals excellent single-target damage, although it’s not a 1-hit-wonder and can still be out-healed by more sturdy opponents. It allows me to stalk enemy zergs and take out the glass cannons or perform ninja-stomps.
I can also say that I can confidently (EDIT: barring any 1-hit-wonders) win/draw any “duel” or “1v1” situation. Even if I can’t kill my opponent, I can flee with +25% movement speed, swiftness upon dodging, and Heartseekers for extra distance."
So there we go….perma stealth and can still hit hard…
So I just found out this was possible, but it won’t let me embed the video.
copy and paste should work.
In fact even better…
The warrior somehow has activate his vengeance (after being left alone for a whole 20 seconds apparently). He manages to get up and starts fighting.
He has to get to you, kill you and then stomp you in the space of 15 seconds or he falls over.
Even if he kills you somehow, and he can’t get the stomp off, you will revive from him falling over at the end of vengeance.
Warriors have hands down the worst downed state abilities in the game.
What?
You’re saying if you team up with someone else you can beat someone 2v1 with this build?
That’s pretty great advice man. I’ll remember that when I play next time.
You know what would be better to team up with a necro running boon removal spec? A Hb warrior!, you’d kill the bunker in 1/4 of the time. Or even better a thief, or an offense guardian, or any class which can dps.
I amazingly saw a few warriors running this in spvp (i assumed it was similar as they were hammer/mace/shield) last night and you know what?, after the first knockdown, my stability kicked in and i absolutely wrecked them. We were in a 4v3 fight, they had 2 hammer warriors, 1 thief and 1 guardian (hammer as well), we were me (warrior) and ele + thief, and again, we won. Stability kills those builds
Apply one snare and leave the guy alone and focus on a bigger threat, he has 0 closers and 0 get out of jail cards. It isn’t a skillful spec, it’s a spec which relies on your opponent being bad to do well with.
“Glass cannon if you don’t time it right, we just die. Or ganged by 2 players pretty much instant death. Even now Elementalist bunker 2000 toughness with 20k HP can only last a couple of few seconds if being ganked by 3 glass cannons. Problem here is, you cannot kill but to die slowly.”
Oh hahahahah, you should try playing a ranger or warrior, you will be in tears after the first 5 minutes if you think dying to 3 glass cannons is an issue.
Elementalist bunkers are nonsense, as is every other bunker in the game. They need to be reworked.
Haha, crazy stuff man. You’re a strange one.
You really are relying on that sigil to strip stability? Most classes have about 5 boons on them at any given instant, myself included as a warrior, and you think that with a 30 percent chance to remove a boon on crit is a reliable way to remove stability?
Just amazing.
How exactly will warriors kill anything without using a well timed frenzy.
Bunkers will then become 100x stronger than they were before. But you clearly thought all this out before saying remove quickness…
@archnemesis.
Any thief worth his salt won’t get hit when he’s stealthed. If he stands in the way of you swinging your weapon then he’s a bad thief and you were going to beat him anyway.
I honestly love how people say ‘save your condition removal for X’. Condition removal only removes 1 condition, and rarely the one you want. So when i’m poisoned/snared/bleeding/vulnerable…….and taking another step in caltrops reapplies the bleed instantly.
Also – Patience, Initial strike, Quick recovery, Preparedness, hastened replenishment.
All able to have in the same build, basically complete up time on initiative for a shortbow spam 1 + caltrops dodge + c+d > stealth > shortbow 1 rinse and repeat. It’s not even hard. (throw in thieves guild for fun…..)…
I actually prefer healing signet in pvp.
The passive + adrenal trait heal is pretty good, and i trait it to remove snares/chill/roots. So it’s like having a multi condition removal every 20 seconds.
Not bad imho. The active heal part needs to be higher though. the 3.5k it heals for is terrible.
Take 30 in defence. Spiked armour is just amazing, and get the stability trait.
Makes a world of difference.