Guild Wars 2

Yasha.5963:

piffdaddy.8014:

This is how i feel….2v2 tournaments have been increasingly popular as of lately. It is a simple mode and would be easy to implement…but for some reason jsharp loves mobas and dreams for gw2 to be like one. News flash…we play this game for the COMBAT AND FIGHTING. that is the fun part in this game…not objectives.

Well, there were many posts asking for moba-type mechanics, so maybe it is a community-driven idea? News Flash-there is combat and fighting in moba.

I would expect a 2vs2/3vs3 etc deathmatch-type mode to be in a game like this as a matter of course, but its hardly inspiring or groundbreaking stuff.

I just feel like if people wanted a moba they would play LoL or dota 2…putting pve type objectives in a game where people want to fight (gw2) is not going to be popular in this game. They thought conquest was going to be their one way ticket to esports and were very wrong….I just don’t want them to make the same mistake with a new and possibly equally boring game mode.

dimyzuka.7051:

JonathanSharp.7094:

@ 2on2/3on3: A lot of you guys really seem to like this idea. So do we. We’re looking at game types which encourage this style of play. Another thing we’re looking at it combining the size of fights with larger tactical/strategic implications, so that there is something fun going on the micro level (the actual fight) and the macro level (the map overall).

Good to hear, this is the only thing that will get me interested again into gw2 pvp. But it sounds like you’re coming up with another objective type gamemode that encourages small team fights, that’s not what we want, it HAS to be 2v2/3v3 deathmatch.

And all this talk about MOBA gamemodes has me worried. I can see ALOT of time and effort spent into another fail gamemode. Deathmatch is simple, proven, and popular.

This is how i feel….2v2 tournaments have been increasingly popular as of lately. It is a simple mode and would be easy to implement…but for some reason jsharp loves mobas and dreams for gw2 to be like one. News flash…we play this game for the COMBAT AND FIGHTING. that is the fun part in this game…not objectives.

A moba mode would be stupid in this game….if i wanted to play a moba i would play dota or league which i dont like. I think a game mode using moba elements (keeps/ sides of the map) could be cool. But progression style moba absolutely not.

Please just give us 2v2/3v3…people just want to fight. Why do you think hotjoin is the most popular pvp mode by far? Because people dont want to worry about objectives and just want to fight. this game NEEDS an arena mode…not a silly moba mode which will discourage actual combat and be very unpopular in this game.

SoR is sanctum of bags…lol

Agriope.4523:

I shelved my d/d ele awhile ago, and was hoping for it to make a return, because I love the class and I thought: “HMMMMmmm. Surely they couldn’t hit d/d even more, right? There’s only one place to go from the bottom of competitive play.”

My thoughts now: “it’s a shame I can’t sell my 2 Incinerators from my D/D ele on the trading post. What a waste of time to have made them.”

LOL it’s sad….I know. The best thing we can do is kitten and moan as much as we can on the forums and even whisper devs in game. MAYBE we have enough time to get this crap changed….hopefully.

This was posted by another user…but I think it should be posted here also.

iriyabran.6218:

So you want to take away some of the need for eles to go into arcane and you actually do exactly the opposite by moving multiple mandatory traits up in tier you force people to invest even more and even more trait points in water and arcane. Also people who go high in arcane go for “evasive arcane” NOT for the attunement cooldown.
You basically doom us to set ourself in stone with 30 water 30 arcane and 10 whatever, the attunement recharge won’t matter and diamond skin genuinely made me laugh. I wish good luck to everyone who decides to test spending 30 trait points and trying to stay over 90% health in PvP often enough for it to be a trait that justifies the investment and sacrifice of everything else.
I am not even joking when I say this I really don’t know how you guys play ele if you play it at all.

This is exactly how I feel….why ruin our current builds? Please don’t move all of our useful adept traits to master. I understand moving some….but not all. Elemental attunement and renewing stamina should both not be moved to master…only one or the other. Same with cleansing wave and aquamancers alacrity in water…all four of these traits are adept currently and all are being moved to master. I run ALL OF THESE on my current pvp build and I am sure I speak for a lot of eles when I say this that the patch is really screwing us over big time. Ain’t nobody gonna go for 30 earth or fire…we don’t deserve these nerfs.

iriyabran.6218:

So you want to take away some of the need for eles to go into arcane and you actually do exactly the opposite by moving multiple mandatory traits up in tier you force people to invest even more and even more trait points in water and arcane. Also people who go high in arcane go for “evasive arcane” NOT for the attunement cooldown.
You basically doom us to set ourself in stone with 30 water 30 arcane and 10 whatever, the attunement recharge won’t matter and diamond skin genuinely made me laugh. I wish good luck to everyone who decides to test spending 30 trait points and trying to stay over 90% health in PvP often enough for it to be a trait that justifies the investment and sacrifice of everything else.
I am not even joking when I say this I really don’t know how you guys play ele if you play it at all.

Quoted for kitten truth…I hope anet reconsiders some of these changes to arcane and water to avoid “power creep” when the “power” we are getting is not even worth going for. So basically we end up with unneeded nerfs. If it ain’t broke, don’t fix it.

Scepter ele’s will be able to play some forms of condition builds, burst builds with more sustain, and even bunker builds.

We are LOSING sustain with a lot of our water and arcane adept traits getting moved to master tier…what are you smoking? Elemental attunement and renewing stamina both being master is bad…same with aquamancer alacrity and cleansing wave both being moved to master. ALL four of those traits are currently adept traits….they shouldn’t all be moved to master. Ridiculous… there has yet to be a patch without major elementalist nerfs.

As an elementalist, I am NOT happy with these changes. The direction you guys are trying to go with removing dependency on arcana is absolutely great, but by moving around some of the water and arcane traits my build is going to be completely destroyed. Allow me to explain:

On my ele, I run 0/20/0/20/30 build with S/D. For my water traits, I use both aquamancers alacrity and cleansing wave for my two trait choices. These are both currently adept traits. IF the changes happen…both would become master traits. Meaning I can no longer use both with my current build. I understand wanting to avoid power creep…and I agree cleaning wave may be too strong as an adept trait. But moving aquamancers alacrity to master also is a huge nerf as I always run both these traits in all my builds…pvp, wvw, and even pve. I don’t think having 20% reduced CD on water weapon skills is really that OP, is it? I doubt an ele who goes for the new fire/earth traits would even want aquamancers alacrity anyways because it is only really useful with some healing power.

Same situation with the arcana traits….I use both elemental attunement (as all eles need this trait) and renewing stamina (renewing stamina is an adept trait but I use it in my master slot). Apparently the plan is to move both of these adept traits to master. This, along with the water changes, is a BIG BIG nerf for me. Right now, they are both adept traits. I see no reason to move both to master….move either one or the other. I would say have renewing stamina be the master trait and elemental attunement be the adept….that way people can’t just get the quick vigor trait which is probably why the devs are proposing these changes anyways.

I was happy about some of the ele changes until I thought about it…my build is going to be completely ruined Fire and earth won’t be worth changing the build and playstyle that I love. Seriously…Please don’t fix what isn’t broken I realize you are worried about power creep….but what is going to happen is no one is going to trait for earth or fire. And I will have my favorite build nerfed.

LordByron.8369:

•Arcane V – Elemental Attunement. Moved to Master tier.
•Arcane VI – Renewing Stamina. Moved to Master tier.

Another nerf to D/D to the level of RTL 200% nerf.

GG if you want all players enjoyng D/D gameplay to quit at all cost you will be sure this time.

RTL was one of the most unfun nerf i ever seen in a game.
This is even worse…for PvE and WWW.

I hope you are happy of how much you destroyed those in the sake of your terrible PvP.

If this arrives in PvE i think i ll find the final reson to quit this great game ruined since day 1 patch after patch.

I already quit PvP…i quit WWW and now its time for pve.

I agree…both these traits should not be master. Renewing stamina should be the master trait with elemental attunement being the adept. Right now, both traits are adept so anyone putting in 10 points to arcana can have either one. Putting them both on master tier is not a good change at all in my opinion. It cripples too many builds that we have had for the entirety of the game…all of which have been nerfed every patch.

As an elementalist, I am NOT happy with these changes. The direction you guys are trying to go with removing dependency on arcana is absolutely great, but by moving around some of the water and arcane traits my build is going to be completely destroyed. Allow me to explain:

On my ele, I run 0/20/0/20/30 build with S/D. For my water traits, I use both aquamancers alacrity and cleansing wave for my two trait choices. These are both currently adept traits. IF the changes happen…both would become master traits. Meaning I can no longer use both with my current build. I understand wanting to avoid power creep…and I agree cleaning wave may be too strong as an adept trait. But moving aquamancers alacrity to master also is a huge nerf as I always run both these traits in all my builds…pvp, wvw, and even pve. I don’t think having 20% reduced CD on water weapon skills is really that OP, is it? I doubt an ele who goes for the new fire/earth traits would even want aquamancers alacrity anyways because it is only really useful with some healing power.

Same situation with the arcana traits….I use both elemental attunement (as all eles need this trait) and renewing stamina (renewing stamina is an adept trait but I use it in my master slot). Apparently the plan is to move both of these adept traits to master. This, along with the water changes, is a BIG BIG nerf for me. Right now, they are both adept traits. I see no reason to move both to master….move either one or the other. I would say have renewing stamina be the master trait and elemental attunement be the adept….that way people can’t just get the quick vigor trait which is probably why the devs are proposing these changes anyways.

I was happy about some of the ele changes until I thought about it…my build is going to be completely ruined Fire and earth won’t be worth changing the build and playstyle that I love. Seriously…Please don’t fix what isn’t broken I realize you are worried about power creep….but what is going to happen is no one is going to trait for earth or fire. And I will have my favorite build nerfed.

Yes, this is exactly what i want to see. 3v3 would be most competitive bracket and best to watch imo.

There is not enough of an spvp population right now….we NEED new game modes that have NOTHING to do with capture points. We want to FIGHT.

I was actually happy that they tried to give us some cross over…it just made a few casual players mad about not getting tpvp chests. I think if they gave the bag in addition to the chest it would have been more accepted by all players.

Please….don’t discuss ele builds on the forums. It has only gotten us nerfed to hell in the past….if you want some help with ele you can pm me in game. And shhhh about the frost bow you gonna get our one bit of fun nerfed.

I would like to see 2v2, and 3v3 arena. As in, two teams of 3, last team standing wins. On a small map. Picture a coliseum where each team is behind a gate on opposite sides. When the match starts, the gate drops and the two teams go at it. This would be amazingly fun to play and very easy to watch and understand. Conquest, although it is a good game mode, is just too hard to follow when watching.

With this game mode, games would be fast and queue times would not be a problem. I GUARANTEE if you decide to do this, and send out emails to everyone who used to play pvp, they will all come back to check it out. Arena is what everyone has been asking for since this game started….we got custom arenas and I thought that would be the first step towards it. Well, it sort of was, but custom “arena” is really just custom conquest. A potential problem though would be if people stacked 3 bunkers. To prevent people from stacking bunkers, put a 10 min time limit on the match and if the game isn’t over in 10 minutes make both teams lose rating.

My guild and I have been doing 3v3 and 5v5 arena fights like this lately. We did them on the center point in legacy of the foefire; each team starts on the opposite end and we counted down before we would go. Last team alive is declared the winner, and it was honestly a blast. We would have someone lay down a smoke field, go stealth, and it would be on! It was so much fun, we all had a blast. We were on voice communication, and we would set up for our burst. It actually took a lot to win the 3v3s, we would get a cc off on target and then try to chain ccs. We had to swap targets multiple times, and time our burst with each others. The amount of synergy that we had was just amazing. Think of all the different possibilities for potential team comps. I could see this getting bigger than WoW arena ever was.

3v3 is honestly the perfect amount of people for this because 5v5 can be a bit hectic and harder to tell what is going on. 2v2 could be imbalanced with bunker/glass teams that would have the bunkers job to be reviving/crowd control, but honestly I would rather just have the game mode and be able to try it for ourselves. I think 3v3 would be the perfect sweet spot. Maybe allow us to have up to 5 per side, but make 3v3 the competitive bracket.

Please don’t make a new variation of conquest, or conquest with more nodes like some people have asked for. That game mode is part of the reason why spvp numbers are so low today.

I would really like to hear J. sharps opinion on 3v3 arena gladiator style (last team standing). Also please let us turn off capture points in custom arena and still have the match go (so we can have a gvg type match just for fun on legacy of the foefire)

Warriors are op

Scoobaniec.9561:

Rush has 1200 range UNMODIFIED. Its can be improved by warrior sprint/+25% speed runes/switfness.

So I decided to test this again and you are right; the 25% movement trait does make rush go farther. Without it, it is equal in range to RTL. My original test I didn’t take that trait into account. So, I decided to try using signet of air on my ele (which gives +25% movement speed just like warrior trait) and switch to air right before using ride the lightning (to give myself swiftness since that also makes rush go farther). RTL does not go farther with the 25% speed signet or swiftness.

This is an unfair double standard and I don’t think the trait should affect the rush ability. It should be one speed and range just like ride the lightning is. Rush has half the cooldown, and is honestly better in every way than RTL now. A warrior can escape guaranteed every 20 seconds if he uses a greatsword….how is that fair? That is why ele mobility was gutted. I have played ele since launch and I have played a warrior enough to know that disengaging is MUCH easier on the warrior because rush goes so much farther than RTL does. You may not think an additional +300 range is much, but it is honestly huge. Even if you cripple the warrior he will still be able to get away no problem with both the #3 and #5 skills on the greatsword. Cripple barely does anything to rush, and it is made up for by just using the #3 skill.

The ability to escape a fight you are losing is HUGE in tpvp. Everytime someone dies, the enemy team is rewarded with points. A good warrior will deny the enemy team those points every time. Also, the extra range allows warriors to get to another point much faster. Warriors arguably have the best mobility out of every profession. Only the old DD eles matched it, and they were gutted….all I’m saying is double standards.

Navzar.2938:

Just to make sure, the warrior didn’t have swiftness on it did it?

Nope, no swiftness on the warrior.

I agree this would be a good change, but might be harder to implement then it sounds. If you level up from 2 to 50 in spvp, what about gear when you get to pve? An experienced player would obviously just buy gear from the TP but a noob would not know what to do and be annoyed by having no gear. I think a good way to do this would be to introduce those tomes that reward a level on use that came with the new patch. Maybe give them as a random reward in match win chests so people who spend all day doing tpvp don’t feel as left behind in pve.

I know people who don’t do spvp because it is like playing another game; as in you don’t progress in pve at all and it can almost be seen as a waste of time to them. I know people people say well pvp is supposed to be separate from pve and I say that that has obviously not been working. This game needs the pve players to start doing spvp because we have almost no spvp players left. Everyone quit because spvp wasn’t supported enough to stand on its own like anet wanted it to, so we need to get more people playing it by getting the pve crowd in here.

The elementalist skill ride the lightning was nerfed by not only having the cooldown doubled….but having the range cut from 1550 to 1200. Anet said this was because the 1550 range was “unintentional”. Well I just tested the warrior greatsword 5 skill rush and it says 1200 range just like RTL. It goes a fair bit further than ride the lightning does. Try it out yourself; get on an ele with dagger offhand and stand near the stairs in heart of the mists (by the armor/weapon vendors). Use a skull on the ground as a marker and remember where that skull was. Use ride the lightning and you won’t make it up the stairs. You will make it about halfway. Now get on a warrior and use rush, you will make it up the stairs no problem and even keep going a bit.

I find this really unfair considering eles had their mobility pretty much gutted and warriors get to run around with a 1550 range mobility skill when the tooltip says 1200. This ability should at least be changed to 1200 range like RTL was, and IMO it could use a longer cooldown but that is not my decision to make. Just to clarify, ride the lightning also says 1200 range. Just thought this should be brought to the developers attention.

I have been asking for this since the game came out.

Yes, would love it.

Spirit rangers deserve to be removed from the game, it is a no skill trash build that anyone could pick up and be a master with after playing a few games (talking less than 5 games to be a pro). Now if you want to argue for other ranger builds to be viable I can understand, but the spirit build was completely over the top and everyone has started playing rangers because of it.

They need to only look at this: How many players have played more than 5 tpvp matches this past month? (include solo and team queue). Now how many have done 5 hotjoin matches? I bet the hotjoin crowd is WAY higher. People go to hotjoin because they don’t want to play capture point, they want to straight up fight. And it is fun, despite what Jon may think. Small scale deathmatch with last team standing wins would be the best. But from the way Jon speaks we may be getting some assault type of gamemode….like bring the bomb to the base in COD. I sincerely hope not, because that will just kitten players off more. We want to fight!!!! The objectives should be SECONDARY with killing being the absolute main focus.

The big patch is coming….be happy that they even slipped in some balance changes for this patch. I think at first they weren’t even planning to do anything for another 2 weeks but the massive uproar caused them to make some slight changes. I still think spirit rangers should be nerfed more they simply have too many evades. And condition damage in general should be dropped by 25% for everyone (in pvp).

I have been saying this forever but 3v3 deathmatch very similar to WoW would be the best thing for this game. Go watch a 3v3 deathmatch tournament (there have been a few good ones done in custom arenas already and they were very fun to watch) and then go watch PAX petting zoo extravaganza…..which one looks more fun to play? I rest my case. Everybody hates on WoW but it’s arena was very competitive at one point and way bigger than gw2 can every really hope to be. AND they charged a sub fee, this game has none!

Helseth is by far my favorite streamer. If this game would take off I could see him being famous like reckful from WoW is. Sadly he is entirely correct in his rant though; Ncsoft refuses to put the resources into pvp development. This game is mostly focused on pve and there is no denying that.

Fernling.1729:

Xom.9264:

JonathanSharp.7094:

• We’re working on new game types.

Thats all you need do, deathmatch and the PvP community will grow.

I really think they are underestimating deathmatch.

I agree. Some type of deathmatch with maybe small power up buffs would be amazing. So amazing. Please Jon give it a chance!

Something like this would be amazing…think about it. People who quit pvp would come back and try it out

In spvp builds are differentt and we cant get the same stats as in wvw. That is the problem.

I actually think not having healers would make small scale (talking 3v3 WoW style) DM better than WoW was. Nobody likes fighting healers, and it would take a lot of skill from each player to keep their selves alive. Because of no healers, you really can’t carry people in this game. Things like a guardian pulling someone off your ally so he has time to cast his heal, or a Mesmer using mass invisibility so his teammate getting trained can run away. Most classes also have some type of revive utility skill (illusion of life/ele glyph) I really believe this could work but anet is so obsessed with boring boring BORING conquest mode. I cannot stress enough how much I hate the conquest mode. I play it because I like pvp and working with a team, but lately my friends and I have been wvw roaming and it honestly is more fun.

This would be awesome but they will never implement it. The reason is because it would kill off the already dead/ barely hanging on spvp community. Everyone who loves pvp would no longer do spvp and only this new mode. Basicially this would be too much fun and anets 10k they spent on PAX tournament for spvp would go to waste (even though it already has). I personally think this would end up with a lot of empty servers like the current custom arenas. A better idea would be to make a separate map for us to queue up for (you can even just let us queue for the EB jp outside of wvw) so we can have some form of real pvp. But again spvp dying off is the reason we can’t have nice things.

The absolute #1 reason they have not attempted to implement something like “GvG” is because it would kill spvp. Everyone would realize how bad spvp is and that 10k they spent on PAX tournament would go to waste. End game pvp in this game would be too fun and people would only play that. The game would really take off, but their vision of spvp as an esport wouldn’t happen. Spvp sucks because conquest mode is kitten. People who want real pvp have to come to wvw. I honestly feel anet needs to be bought out lol because they are fools when it comes to handling pvp. Nobody plays spvp because you can’t use any of your pve gear. All your carrot chasing in pve can’t even be represented in pvp. The same builds that are viable in wvw can’t be used in spvp because we don’t have the same stat options. They claim it’s for “balance” but really it keeps all the pve players away from pvp. They all have to go to wvw which is hardly pvp anymore. At the VERY LEAST they could make something like the eb jp that we could queue up for separately from wvw so we could do gvg. I like the fractals battleground idea in this thread but sadly that would be too fun and anet would never do it.

Deathmatch would work, and it would bring old players who quit back. I know many who quit because of conquest. I think that 3v3, one life per person no respawning would be best for dm in spvp. Think arena from WoW, only a much better combat system. Sadly we have very little chance at getting a new game mode because of people like the op who are conquest nerds. If you dont like deathmatch you can stick to conquest. let us at least have some fun in this game before everyone else quits.

We need some type of gvg map that maybe gives ppt to the server that the winning guild is from. They would need a way to make sure that it isnt exploitable. They COULD just make it a new mode outside of wvw, but then nobody would bother with spvp/ boring conquest mode. So it would have to be tied into ppt somehow. It could be a battle that guilds can que up for, pugs too but make a way for guilds to be together. Also need a way to face specific guilds. I feel like this would be too fun though and take away from the already low low low spvp population

I think a good solution to this problem would be to make unranked 5v5 matches that you can queue up for either solo or with a team. Basically keep the current system we have now as a separate unranked queue so that friends can still play together. If people roll a 5 man premade they aren’t really gaining anything besides farming glory so I don’t think that will be a huge issue. There needs to be a slight penalty for leaving though so everyone doesn’t just rage quit if losing.

A more structured version of hotjoin pretty much.

new game modes would be too fun. anet doesn’t want that. deathmatch 3v3 or 5v5 would become the preferred game mode and everyone would realize how boring conquest really is.

Dfalus.3659:

As much as people like to bash wow pvp and wow in general the arena system was and still is one of the best pvp experiences i’ve had.I would like Guild Wars 2 to adopt something similar.

I agree with you. Honestly if wow had a big graphics update i would go back to it…anet is too hung up on conquest. Wow had it all and an insanely competitive ranked arena ladder. Rated battlegrounds were a blast too…anet could do so much but they are simply stubborn. I cant wait until blizzard comes out with their new mmo titan…too bad it is years from now

3v3 deathmatch on a small arena would be a lot of fun.

We just need to keep asking for new game modes, eventually they will give in. At least on the most recent state of the game the players keep asking about new game modes and one of them even said they would love to see death match. If we keep pushing for new modes (preferably small scale 3v3 death match) then I have a feeling they will give in.

Anet needs to look at this thread. People are sick of conquest. It is a decent game mode but as the ONLY game mode it’s just getting boring. Please please please make the next map you guys make something other than conquest. I’m talking no capture nodes, make up something new. Just introduce it into hotjoin first as others have said….balance can come later once we see how it works out. Death match arena on a SMALL map would be amazing. 2v2, 3v3, or 5v5.

Honestly I don’t think the matchmaking is all that bad. I almost always play tpvp as a team and we usually do well. Yesterday I did 4 solo que matches on my bunker elementalist and won the first 3 in a row. And not blowouts, these were close games. You need to let people know what you plan on doing in team chat and it will go a long way. Tpvp is not hotjoin….you need to work together as a team to win. I rarely ever see low ranks in tpvp….most are usually close to my own. Just my experience.

umbra.2753:

this is GW2 dude, pve-grind game. if you want pvp then you should look for another game. sadly but pvp in this game just for publicity that would make more money on pvp-fans

It sure does feel that way sometimes…

I would love a map like this, sounds very fun.

Can we please have a new game mode already? People are getting bored to death beating the dead horse we call conquest….I understand that balance is a concern and that is probably why Anet refuses to make other modes. I think a death match arena style game mode would be great for this game. Make the map a small coliseum with gates on both sides and some objects/pillars in the middle to use for breaking line of sight. The fights could be anywhere from 3v3 to 5v5 ( 5v5 would be best imo). The last team alive wins, and gains MMR. I understand that rez skills such as illusion of life/elixir r would be mandatory in this mode but that might not be such a bad thing. Rez classes could basically replace bunkers. People I know who do tpvp regularly are starting to look for another game to play out of boredom and everyone who I have talked to about this idea would love to see it. A lot of people that I know personally have quit this game because of the bunker/ conquest only meta we currently have.

I feel like the main reason we haven’t gotten a new game mode is because balance would be a concern and we don’t have enough pvp developers to work on it. What does the community think about a game mode like this? It would certainly be a lot easier to follow on streams and I am sure anet could make the spectator mode really great on a small map. Maybe this could even be done as an expansion? Making an expansion out of this would make ncsoft some cash money.

I would love a deathmatch game mode, or any game mode just without capture points

Mujen.5287:

Personally I would love to see an old school GW1 team death match mode. I spent hours upon hours playing random arenas and some of my favorite times was just an old fashion slaughter match.

That is my dream for this game. To have small scale arena matches very similar to WoW arena. Maybe have team ratings just like WoW and be able to show off your teams rating. For maps they could just use small areas of the maps already in game, such as use one of the lord keeps on legacy of the foefire (without npcs of course). Something like that is more likely to come from an expansion though and by then we might not have people left to play it :/

I typically try to break their line of sight the best I can. But if you are bunkering a point going offensive is probably the best bet and not using the 5 skill right away, save it for when you really need it.