Guild Wars 2

At the moment the DR system seems to be punishing everyone, but one of the devs wrote this:

“Thank you this is excellent info. We would like dungeons to be legit hard enough to take closer to 45 mins but if we can’t accomplish that goal we can look at the speed clear times from non exploiters and easily adjust the system. The goal is that hardcore farmers don’t even see this thing but only exploiters. We will keep working towards that goal.

Jon"

So their intention is only to punish exploiters. But the thing is it’s hard for them to judge how fast people will be able to do the dungeons. They obviously underestimated it at the moment, since some paths can go down in 20 minutes (like in AC, some bits can essentially be skipped)

What’s the poison vine fight?

@Masterpyro.4310, for fun? for practice? so when they do fix it we can do them faster?

Joe Chip.9538:

ref.8196:

You gained the normal amount gained before the patch and you feel like you didn’t gain anything?

Ahahah, oh my god. This gotta be one of the dumbest reasoning I’ve ever heard.

I didn’t get my full 180 tickets either, but I don’t feel like I wasted my time or that I didn’t get anything, I just care less than other people and don’t go round whining (which is what most of the people on this forum are doing).

It’s like those people on deal or no deal who cry because they took a deal early on and end up getting the £250,000 box (British thing)

You gained the normal amount gained before the patch and you feel like you didn’t gain anything?

The blossoms have a few targeting issues. If you have a guardian with you, tell him to use the staff to clean the blossoms out, it’s extremely effective.

Krazed.7458:

afflaq.3947:

wake up mid morning in the AM, HMM I WANNA DO ME A DUNGEON!!!
“HEY GUYS LFG AWESOME DUNGEON!”
receive/accept invite – do dungeon, collect yourself 60 badges.
“HEY GUYS LETS DO THAT AGAIN!!!”
This instance resets in 23 hours, 28 minutes, 32 seconds.

Is that the system you’d prefer? And maybe while we’re at it we can cap the number of badges you can obtain weekly too. The current and even previous systems were more generous and better than other games. Shush up before you get that put into this one.

I would take lockouts over the system in place right now, as it currently works. I would be able to get 480 tokens a day, 60 from each dungeon, and I would be immensely happy with that. As it stands now I can get 155.

ref.8196:

Jon made a post above this which states their intentions clearly.

Their intentions are not what’s in-game right now.

Of course it’s not, they are just saying what they are aiming for. They are currently fixing what’s in game now.

Takato.4976:

ref.8196:

Takato.4976:

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/dungeons/3-Man-Guild-Run-Ascalonian-Catacombs-Explorable/first#post273867

Need I say more ? 3 people completing in almost 30 min, imagine 5.
This is no exploiting and ran like anet wants it to be ran.\

So basically, if this guild actually tries to be anymore efficient, aka ADD A PLAYER OR TWO ? Then they get penalized for being good ? GJ, proud of the way devs think.

I’m also proud of the way you didn’t read the thread

Yeah good thing I don’t know there’s a global DR in which, no matter which path or dungeon you pick, if you run things under 30min often you will eventually be penalized.

Are YOU reading this thread ?

At the moment that is true, I think everyone knows that, and it is also bugged. But read Jon’s post above?

Geekcheck.3407:

You have concerns and questions, which is why I am answering them to the best of my ability without divulging the full mechanics of our DR system.

And therein lies the problem. ANet introduced a very technical system that artificially imposes restrictions on players at the expense of their fun and offers no numerical data to explain it.

It is also very clear why ANet doesn’t want to divulge the mechanics of the system, because if people knew the specific timeframes that trigger DR, players could again maximize their playing time by clearing dungeons at a pace that is beneficial to them. But that doesn’t seem to concern ANet. All ANet seems to care about is what they think is bets, not what is bet for the players.

It makes no sense to artificially impose these restrictions on players who are playing the game by the rules in conjunction with the design of the dungeons. If players are able to learn the mechanics, come up with solid group dynamics and combination of skills, that make them more efficient, they should not be punished for it. That is simply punishing people for being good, not exploiting the system. If ANet doesn’t like that people are clearing the content at a pace that is faster than they like, then so be it, but at least have the respect for the community and admit the true reasons for the change, as opposed to offering up vague responses that are clearly dancing around the truth.

Even though I think the change is flat out stupid in terms of a design stance, stop giving us the political answer and just be honest with us, it will go a long way.

Jon made a post above this which states their intentions clearly.

Takato.4976:

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/dungeons/3-Man-Guild-Run-Ascalonian-Catacombs-Explorable/first#post273867

Need I say more ? 3 people completing in almost 30 min, imagine 5.
This is no exploiting and ran like anet wants it to be ran.\

So basically, if this guild actually tries to be anymore efficient, aka ADD A PLAYER OR TWO ? Then they get penalized for being good ? GJ, proud of the way devs think.

I’m also proud of the way you didn’t read the thread

Well, it’s a MMOg.

Jasher.6580:

Currently a fast run with a good group doing everything flawlessly is between 20-25 mins… the average player doing explorable mode dungeons are doing them in a little over an hour… So let’s say that’s a 50 min difference… so that’s an hour and a half of someone stuck in a dungeon. Now equate wipes… That’s easily a 2 – 3 hour run trying to figure out mechanics.

you aren’t comparing the right numbers, any group doing a dungeon for the first time will probably take over an hour

you can’t compare a group doing everything flawlessly to a pug doing it for the first time

Jasher.6580:

ref.8196:

Jasher.6580:

JonPeters.5630:

rickets.1386:

JonPeters.5630:

Plain and simple this system is a safety net for stopping crazy farming when people find exploits that make each run super fast. We are also addressing those loopholes, but that takes time and new ones might always be discovered. If you and your group do the dungeons without skipping large sections and run different chains this system shoul(bugs aside) never impact you.

Addendum for clarity, super fast means < 30 minutes, and even then you must hit that speed multiple times in a row before you start seeing any impact.

Thanks for the reply Jon, and thanks for giving a time. However, my group just did a legit maggs run and a legit AC path 2 run in 25 minutes each. Of course with the bug we all got different rewards but i will post that in the proper forum with times.

They were not death free runs and we didn’t feel like we did them as fast as we could have, so when we bring our “A” game we will basically be waiting in front of the last boss room for 10 minutes to make sure we get full rewards….not fun. But, I guess if the system starts to work like you hope and it takes multiple sub 30 minute runs in a row we should be fine.

I will also be posting links to the 2 runs we just did(as soon as they are uploaded) to prove we did them legit.

Thanks and i hope a fix is on its way soon.

Thank you this is excellent info. We would like dungeons to be legit hard enough to take closer to 45 mins but if we can’t accomplish that goal we can look at the speed clear times from non exploiters and easily adjust the system. The goal is that hardcore farmers don’t even see this thing but only exploiters. We will keep working towards that goal.

Jon

Wow, thank you. This is much better. I was beginning to worry there Jon. hugs I knew you guys would do the right thing. 30 mins was way too long. My guildies and I were talking about this very thing, because we don’t exploit and we can do sub 20 min clears.

And also… why would you goal be 45 mins? I really think 20-30 mins is the sweet spot in terms of the fun factor, at least for me and my guild mates.

45 mins seems perfect for me

45 mins for a perfect execution would amount to hours of frustration for the average gamer. People don’t have that much time to invest in structured (team) video game activity. That’s hours of neglecting the wife and kids. Or just hours of wiping and then people leaving because they refuse to neglect the wife and kids.

UW, FoW and DoA took even longer than that to complete. And hours is an exaggeration, a fast run at the minute is between 20/25 mins. A first run (for our guild anyway, with little co-ordination) on these dungeons took us about an hour, which is a reasonable time, so we can equate that if they want them to take 45 mins, a first run with a pug/guild could take between 60 and 90 minutes.

Jasher.6580:

JonPeters.5630:

rickets.1386:

JonPeters.5630:

Plain and simple this system is a safety net for stopping crazy farming when people find exploits that make each run super fast. We are also addressing those loopholes, but that takes time and new ones might always be discovered. If you and your group do the dungeons without skipping large sections and run different chains this system shoul(bugs aside) never impact you.

Addendum for clarity, super fast means < 30 minutes, and even then you must hit that speed multiple times in a row before you start seeing any impact.

Thanks for the reply Jon, and thanks for giving a time. However, my group just did a legit maggs run and a legit AC path 2 run in 25 minutes each. Of course with the bug we all got different rewards but i will post that in the proper forum with times.

They were not death free runs and we didn’t feel like we did them as fast as we could have, so when we bring our “A” game we will basically be waiting in front of the last boss room for 10 minutes to make sure we get full rewards….not fun. But, I guess if the system starts to work like you hope and it takes multiple sub 30 minute runs in a row we should be fine.

I will also be posting links to the 2 runs we just did(as soon as they are uploaded) to prove we did them legit.

Thanks and i hope a fix is on its way soon.

Thank you this is excellent info. We would like dungeons to be legit hard enough to take closer to 45 mins but if we can’t accomplish that goal we can look at the speed clear times from non exploiters and easily adjust the system. The goal is that hardcore farmers don’t even see this thing but only exploiters. We will keep working towards that goal.

Jon

Wow, thank you. This is much better. I was beginning to worry there Jon. hugs I knew you guys would do the right thing. 30 mins was way too long. My guildies and I were talking about this very thing, because we don’t exploit and we can do sub 20 min clears.

And also… why would you goal be 45 mins? I really think 20-30 mins is the sweet spot in terms of the fun factor, at least for me and my guild mates.

45 mins seems perfect for me

Portal Master.9146:

Yes sorry about that.
“Detha’s plan:trap and kill the Ghost Eater”
Unfortunately the only one most people will agree to do.

The others take just as much time

JonPeters.5630:

rickets.1386:

JonPeters.5630:

Plain and simple this system is a safety net for stopping crazy farming when people find exploits that make each run super fast. We are also addressing those loopholes, but that takes time and new ones might always be discovered. If you and your group do the dungeons without skipping large sections and run different chains this system shoul(bugs aside) never impact you.

Addendum for clarity, super fast means < 30 minutes, and even then you must hit that speed multiple times in a row before you start seeing any impact.

Thanks for the reply Jon, and thanks for giving a time. However, my group just did a legit maggs run and a legit AC path 2 run in 25 minutes each. Of course with the bug we all got different rewards but i will post that in the proper forum with times.

They were not death free runs and we didn’t feel like we did them as fast as we could have, so when we bring our “A” game we will basically be waiting in front of the last boss room for 10 minutes to make sure we get full rewards….not fun. But, I guess if the system starts to work like you hope and it takes multiple sub 30 minute runs in a row we should be fine.

I will also be posting links to the 2 runs we just did(as soon as they are uploaded) to prove we did them legit.

Thanks and i hope a fix is on its way soon.

Thank you this is excellent info. We would like dungeons to be legit hard enough to take closer to 45 mins but if we can’t accomplish that goal we can look at the speed clear times from non exploiters and easily adjust the system. The goal is that hardcore farmers don’t even see this thing but only exploiters. We will keep working towards that goal.

Jon

Thanks, that makes your intentions much clearer.

Read the forums, it’s a bug.

3 guardians with mace/focus should be able to do kholer easily

The video is not working for me, slow internet

Did you kill kholer in this path? When you picked up the 5 scepter pieces, did you kill the mobs there, or just run it?

rickets.1386:

ref.8196:

rickets.1386:

I would rather see no DR’s at all until you have done every dungeon once. Maybe after you do a path you get a lock out timer on that path for an hour or even a day. At least we would know where we stand then. I see no point in punishing me in AC because I just had a good run in CoF, the rewards are different.

You mean once in 1 day?

yea obviously not ideal but at least you would never get DR’s. Finishing a run and getting 5 tokens is much worse then not doing the dungeon at all imo.

maybe they should lower the DR on different dungeons, but keep the same DR for running the same path in 1 dungeon

rickets.1386:

ref.8196:

It shouldn’t affect people who have little time to play. The ones who will be doing all dungeons in under 20 minutes will be the ones playing a lot

Not always the case ref. What if someone can only play 5 hours on a saturday and thats it. Well if they want to grind dungeons for that 5 hours and they are good they will get DR’s.

that’s true

rickets.1386:

I would rather see no DR’s at all until you have done every dungeon once. Maybe after you do a path you get a lock out timer on that path for an hour or even a day. At least we would know where we stand then. I see no point in punishing me in AC because I just had a good run in CoF, the rewards are different.

You mean once in 1 day?

miya.5160:

Times change. People want to be rewarded for their time. When I was a kid, I could spend all day playing video games, and it would be a good day. Everything was new and shiny.

Now? I have less time, and things that are new and shiny hard to come by. Guild Wars 2 dungeons? New the first time but not all that shiny. I liken them to those of lesser Asian MMOs. If the dungeons were innovative, I could see myself being as drawn to them as I am to all the other features of this game. But they aren’t. They are pretty basic.

I applaud those of you who are able to run Guild Wars 2 dungeons 100+ times for the experience alone, but that is not me. I can run something once or twice for the fun of it. And if I were to run it more, it would have to be for something substantial. Part of MY fun is the reward.

It shouldn’t affect people who have little time to play. The ones who will be doing all dungeons in under 20 minutes will be the ones playing a lot

EliteZ.1682:

And if speed runing dungeons is your way of having fun then what does it happen if you get 60 rewards for something like 10? If you truely enjoy runing the dungeon super fast for fun then you shouldn’t really care about the rewards, just the fun while you’re doing it.

Gaming mentality has changed over the past few years. People want rewards for everything. This is the main problem with the DR system.

Vithaar.8637:

ref.8196:

Honestly, doing a dungeon in 20 minutes instead of 30 doesn’t make you a “great player”

Right but going into a dungeon ( without knowing the exact time limit ) saying to poeple “guys take your time” is kitten too

IMO of course

possibly, but really, it’s only 10 minutes (as far as we know, at this point)

@Nariera we don’t know yet

Honestly, doing a dungeon in 20 minutes instead of 30 doesn’t make you a “great player”

Why do people want to grind dungeons?

Legitimate question. I’m just wondering if people are doing them for either:

- Gold
- Tokens

And if people are worried about the DR, is it because of the reduced gold, or reduced tokens?

Masterpyro.4310:

Xaia.2304:

it’s not a bug it’s a feature

Its a feature that has a bug, it will be fixed soon.

actually yes that’s more accurate

Nariera.9476:

Xaia.2304:

it’s not a bug it’s a feature

Well that be unfortunate. Funny thing, if I counted all the chest correctly I would of gotten more tokens before the patch than after.

it’s a bug, not a feature

Dungeons are not super hard, waypointing is not super expensive. The DR system will not ruin the game.

No, it’s a bug, will be fixed soon.

Oh god, you are still going on about it.

Wait for the bug fix, then see if the DR really does affect you, then complain that you are having trouble grinding gold.

Just a question though, why do you people want to grind these dungeons so much?

@Rpgtabbycat

I see, although couldn’t the seller just raise the price? well, yeh it does seem like a bug, it shouln’t allow that anyway…off topic

Skyrant Kangaroomouse.7458:

fortytwo.3485:

I think its meant to prevent people from slogging thru and getting burnt out.

Plus they want to avoid inflation in the ingame economy.

Restrictions are never a good idea, every MMO that tried it has received a huge backlash and we see the same happening here right now.

Have you looked at the in game economy? It’s completely broken already. Prices are 1c above vendor for all drops.

The ill-conceived cooking patch flooded the market with 2c butter and chocolate. Then they try to recover with an exclusive temporary recipe for the forge alienating most players that did not get that item. Now we are back at 2c butter and chocolate within less than 48 hours.

These people are clueless on how to run a MMO, thats all there is to it.

what do you mean prices are 1c above vendor?

Lipin.7529:

@ref

You sound too optimistic and you sound like an Anet ambassador, but please do not sound like you know everything because there are us who are greatly affected.

And yes, my guild is one of those who clear those explore modes in 30 mins. Not all paths, but definitely some of them.

well I’m saying that at the moment I know nothing, and nobody else does either, so just wait for the bug to be fixed.

@kKagari.6804 yes, there are better solutions, I actually think they should keep the token reward constant, it doesn’t really matter that much, I only think they care about the money that is being earned. They also probably want people to not burn out on dungeons and never playing them again.

But say I say, it’s fine at the moment for me, I can do 3 dungeon paths in less than 2 hours a day for a week and get enough tickets for a full set of armor, the DR system shouldn’t prevent this

@kipz well I really don’t know if it affects me at the moment anyway, since the system is bugged, so we shall see, and then if it does, maybe I will complain

@Skyrant saying that A-net are acting with ignorance and childish behavior doesn’t really make the game any better

Never experienced this.

Skyrant Kangaroomouse.7458:

ref.8196:

Kromica.2831 because it takes time to fix a bug and make sure it’s working when hundreds of thousands of people are playing it. I’m sure it will be fixed very soon. Then we can have this conversation again when it is working properly.

Like the time they should have taken fixing dungeons instead of making a DR system that they also not took the time to test?

I’ll repeat for the 100th time, I think they know that their DR system works, but currently there is a bug that is forcing harsh DRs on everyone. Wait until it is fixed, and THEN you can complain more effectively. At the moment this is all speculation.

Kromica.2831 because it takes time to fix a bug and make sure it’s working when hundreds of thousands of people are playing it. I’m sure it will be fixed very soon. Then we can have this conversation again when it is working properly.

Can anyone actually do any of the AC/CM/TA explorable paths in less than 30 minutes?

Evil.9061:

Robert Hrouda.1327:

but hitting different paths quickly won’t initially draw the influence of the DR system. .

“Running through multiple speed clears back to back will result in the DR system influencing your rewards.” -Robert H 9/26

Dont these directly contradict one another?

Maybe he means for the same path? Not sure…

Well hold on here.

Nobody actually knows the amount of DR the system currently puts on the players. There is a bug at the moment which is screwing things up, so before you all start going in to a rant, lets just wait for the bug fix first?

You can find out if you have done story mode if you disband from the group and try enter the dungeon, if explorable mode comes up you have done story mode.

I think the main problem here is the reward vs fun argument again. People do not want to do dungeons if there is no reward, or a lower reward than if not grinded.

I play melee 90% of the time. I do not ever get one-shot.

Keep as much Aegis, protection and retalitation as you can, you can do this directly through some traits/skills, or even better with combo fields.

The Mexican Cookie.3690:

ref.8196:

The Mexican Cookie.3690:

So basically what Robert is saying; is that we can only be good at one dungeon.

… No comment.

no, he didn’t say that

Sorry, let me rephrase what I said for Mr. Literal over here.

He said that you can be fast, but only be fast in one dungeon within a certain period of time. If I want to do all 3 paths of a dungeon; assuming I’m good at them I’ll be punished if I do the other two paths too quickly after the first path?

If I interpreted that correctly; that is beyond pathetic.

you are the one that is hard to interpret

if by that you mean that on any one day, you can only speed-clear 1 dungeon path, then yes, but you can still be good at other dungeons…your post was ambiguous

The Mexican Cookie.3690:

So basically what Robert is saying; is that we can only be good at one dungeon.

… No comment.

no, he didn’t say that

I mean, I’m not saying I support the DR system, but he didn’t say that

@ Tora, it was just a counter example, just showing how different such small sample spaces can be, the amount of people it affects is irrelevant though, we know its big enough to be a big problem, but it annoys me when people start throwing around random numbers

dardor.9508:

ref.8196:

Sebrent.3625:

My dungeon experience last night:

(1) Sit in Lion’s Arch saying in /map, “Level 80 LFG for any dungeon”
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~number/difficulty of bosses defeated once he/she was in the group … but he/she received the full number of tokens for “completing” the dungeon path*

They could just make it so you can’t kick people in dungeons unless they are offline.

In which case people wouldn’t run dungeons with randoms for another reason. Sometimes you do get stuck with the immature person who seems to think he is all that and doesn’t need to help or follow simple instructions.

well….that’s life! A-net can’t protect us from everything!

it’s hard to find a balance with all this though, as I see it, A-net want dungeons to be:

- Not easily farm-able
- Fun
- Challenging
- An incentive to complete the whole thing

actually scratch that

the idea earlier was the best, which rickets.1386: posted, putting DR on individual bosses. I can’t find any faults with this, can you?