Guild Wars 2

Roe.3679:

I posted this somewhere else, but it’s one stack of burning, and most eles don’t run crit heavy builds. Compared to Dhuumfire which was clearly balanced for Reaper Shroud, which can stack burning in an AOE, every hit.

It’s not even close.

Yeah, the two don’t really compare, however technically even with reapers shroud, it does fall quite a bit short of Scepter auto attack when traited. Hence why is be thrilled if either it got 1 more second or 1.5-2 seconds per hit on Shroud 4 so it could be used in sort of a burst phase. Would be cool. Plus then all shroud skills would be valuable as a condition user.

I sort of doubt it. They are unsplitting evasive arcana. It’s already going to be very powerful. I’d imagine you will just have to be a bit more disciplined on your dodge rolls.

Sagat.3285:

ronpierce.2760:

I like the new Dhuumfire. I just wish it also worked with Shroud 4 skills or was bumped to 4 seconds on auto.

Just an increased duration would be fine.

If still like 2 seconds per tick on Shroud 4. It does a great job making our physical Auto a condi move, would be cool if that extended to our 4 as well. I wouldnt suggest 3 though. 1.5-2 seconds would be sufficient.

I like the new Dhuumfire. I just wish it also worked with Shroud 4 skills or was bumped to 4 seconds on auto.

nekretaal.6485:

ronpierce.2760:

nekretaal.6485:

ronpierce.2760:

Roe.3679:

It is worth noting that the reduced condi damage should synergize nicely with the corruptions. Just look at plague, those bleeds aren’t as bad with this trait.

I don’t think it’s worth taking over other traits but I don’t think it’s bad.

Yeah. Personally I still feel like much of Death Magic is underwhelming. …

The problem is that the master traits are bad. Your choices are:

(1) a stun to fear conversion that works every 60 seconds
(2) a toughness to power trait that doesn’t work well with any existing armors (it seems to exist to benefit reapers)
(3) a minion trait that doesn’t work.

Well that’s what I’m saying. Yes, I agree with what someone else said, GM and Adept have some really cool options. I’m not denying that.

As for the major traits. Flesh of the master is still an incredibly boring mandatory trait for minions to not be completely stomped on arrival.

The major trait for minions is necromantic corruption. It’s an underpowered trait that doesn’t really work when conditions come in AoE or when conditions are spammy and short duration. Thats like every condition that exists.

Maybe if the cd on the return was 5-6 seconds, it would be a bit better. But it’s still not terrible. Or if it drew condies off is a slightly faster rate. But overall I’ll still enjoy having it over not having it.

What I’d REALLY like is if minions also were affected by our defensive traits such as Corruptor’s Fervor, Cold Shoulder, the poison damage reduction trait etc. that would be amazing.

Mia Crazymike.1780:

That thread…

When all the hard work/contribution goes unnoticed by the devs or the necromancer developer.

I will say props to us. Necromancers go through so much work for presentations and idea displays, more than I see on any other class.

skowcia.8257:

Meanwhile…

Ty Cynz for pic!

Looool. They should showcase this in the next stream for community art. Great job Cynz.

Sigmoid.7082:

Potential damage mods available:
Unholy Fervor 10%
Spiteful Talisman 5%
CtD 20% below 50% bp
Strength of Undeath 5%
Scholar Runes 10%
Vulnerability 25%
Force Rune 5%

Around 210% damage easily in pve.
Also easy 20 stacks of might on a target below 50%. Not a bad set of very easily attained damage mods for pve.

Idk what I’m missing but that’s 180% and only under ideal scenarios.

Either way. I honestly think the condition changes will allow us to some-what make working hybrids in pve. I won’t stop until I make it work… Except I might try flame legion instead if the math is there. I have never really done pve Dps calculations, only PvP. So that will be something to toy with.

@lily

I thought the same thing. 3 pierce baseline on life blast and the trait increase the targets hit with Shroud 1 skills to 5. That would be an amazing niche for Necromancers.

Same with Dhuumfire. My thoughts were either bumping it to 4 or leave it 3 and make Shroud 4 pulse 2 (or even 3) burn and be like a more burst oriented skill.

Personally, I’d prefer leaving it 3 and allowing it to affect shroud 4 would be amazing.

TheLastNobody.8319:

ronpierce.2760:

quBit.6437:

New Spite master trait:

• Unholy Fervor: Reduces recharge of axe skills by 20% and deal 10% more damage to vulnerable foes.

---

How exactly will the 10% dmg bonus only apply?

- on axe skills to vulnerable foes
- or while wielding an axe so also to offhand weapon and possibly shroud vs vulnerable foes
- or always and to all skills while the foe is vulnerable

Based on the wording, it has no axe restrictions anymore. If that’s the case, and now that it’s against Vulnerable targets instead of Crippled, it’s not too bad.

Does make me wonder though, consider thieve’s minor is 10% against a target with any condition on them. I feel like theirs should be limited to poison, which reflects well in the tree and isn’t such a free-be, but of course, you could never tell a thief that lol.

Shhhhh….do you hear that…..exactly nothing, they’re in the trees mate…just waiting for anything resembling a nerf so they can tell you about how not op thief is….just walk away pretend like you said nothing

Don’t worry, I fully expected to be featured in the “Nerf Wish List” thread any time now. So they can direct everyone to this thread to attack me for saying something rational. :P

nekretaal.6485:

ronpierce.2760:

Roe.3679:

It is worth noting that the reduced condi damage should synergize nicely with the corruptions. Just look at plague, those bleeds aren’t as bad with this trait.

I don’t think it’s worth taking over other traits but I don’t think it’s bad.

Yeah. Personally I still feel like much of Death Magic is underwhelming. …

The problem is that the master traits are bad. Your choices are:

(1) a stun to fear conversion that works every 60 seconds
(2) a toughness to power trait that doesn’t work well with any existing armors (it seems to exist to benefit reapers)
(3) a minion trait that doesn’t work.

Well that’s what I’m saying. Yes, I agree with what someone else said, GM and Adept have some really cool options. I’m not denying that.

But our Minor Adept, it does very little considering we already take lower damage in Shroud. I mean, it’s “okay” I guess, but its certainly not great or very impactful. Similarly, our Master minor is 100% garbage. Like it’s so pointless I can’t even understand why they thought it was a good idea to keep… And our Grandmaster one is okay. Could last longer or pulse in Shroud to help the minions more, or you know, bring it in line with some of the other protection traits.

As for the major traits. Flesh of the master is still an incredibly boring mandatory trait for minions to not be completely stomped on arrival. Our Master tier has pretty terrible options outside of the minion one, and our Grand Master tier could use a tad bit of love.

The best part about this entire line now is Shrouded Removal, if you ask me. :/ But I’m afraid to say that too loudly because it’ll just get made a Grand Master trait instead…

quBit.6437:

New Spite master trait:

• Unholy Fervor: Reduces recharge of axe skills by 20% and deal 10% more damage to vulnerable foes.

---

How exactly will the 10% dmg bonus only apply?

- on axe skills to vulnerable foes
- or while wielding an axe so also to offhand weapon and possibly shroud vs vulnerable foes
- or always and to all skills while the foe is vulnerable

Based on the wording, it has no axe restrictions anymore. If that’s the case, and now that it’s against Vulnerable targets instead of Crippled, it’s not too bad.

Does make me wonder though, consider thieve’s minor is 10% against a target with any condition on them. I feel like theirs should be limited to poison, which reflects well in the tree and isn’t such a free-be, but of course, you could never tell a thief that lol.

Roe.3679:

It is worth noting that the reduced condi damage should synergize nicely with the corruptions. Just look at plague, those bleeds aren’t as bad with this trait.

I don’t think it’s worth taking over other traits but I don’t think it’s bad.

Yeah. Personally I still feel like much of Death Magic is underwhelming. Examples being:

- Beyond the Veil. sounds good if you plan on flashing Shroud but it’s actually much much less uptime of protection than Ranger’s protection on dodge roll trait. Maybe if it had some sort of lingering effect in DS, could help to keep minions from being wrecked all the time (in group PvP).
- Soul Comprehension which is just… Bad…
- Flesh of the Master still a boring mandatory pet HP boost because otherwise they get squished as soon as they are looked at.
- unholy Sanctuary lost a lot of its uniqueness, doesn’t seem that great, but we’ll see.
- Armored Shroud seems sort of boring/pointless, especially since we already take less damage in Shroud it seems.

I don’t know, we’ll see…

I think I’d prefer something like this, and feel free to tell me if this is a bad idea:

- Put CC back to 25 seconds cd.
- Remove all self harm from corruptions.
- Rework Master of corruptions to:

-Reduce the cooldown of Corruption spells by 20%. Corruption spells grant 2 seconds of Resistance on use apply a powerful condition to the corruptor.

- Conditions would be longer and more potent before, but have the resistance to pad you giving you time to transfer it without harming yourself too much.

Kinda feel like this could cater to both realms. Still allows that powerful corruptionist feel with the need to transfer, while leaving baseline spells a bit more… Idk, viable, and doesn’t force the self-hate play style on anyone.

I think the trait is wonderful, and more fun/active than most proc-traits. You could argue its potency, and I certainly wouldn’t say no if it got bumped higher, lol, but I absolutely love the idea of being active and keeping your assault to gain defense. I wish more traits were like this…

Muchacho.2390:

ronpierce.2760:

Muchacho.2390:

I think dhuumfire will be decent with the reaper spec. But yeah for base necro ist kinda sucks due the slow casttime of Lifeblast. So maybe give Lifeblast a short casttime and adjust the numbers and dhuumfire would be decent for base necros.

I actually calculated damage for 1000 condition damage. (While yes, burn is faster and cleaves) Scepter did about 52% more damage in conditions than the burn added, and has quite a bit of range on it. Life blast’s comparison is just bad all around.

Essentially, for a Reaper you give up quite a bit of damage for it to be less cleanseable (shorter burst condi) and to possibly cleave up to 2 targets. (Assuming 6 points in either tree). And obviously Scepter/Bleed traits effect far more than just the auto attacks, so beyond the autos attack comparisons, it really falls behind in damage. Even a single added second would put it in a good spot, especially considering the requirement of two trees for even decent use.

I do agree, after cast on life blast could be reduced even at a slight loss of damage to compensate. It’s too kitten slow right now.

Mhh i dont disagree with you. I only said decent because i think it is nice to have the option of a damaging condition on our Shroud auto for atleast some condition pressure in Shroud in Soul reaping. But an extra second on the burning i would happly take.

I’m fairly confident that a second bump would do the trick. While yes, it does give Shroud condi pressure for condition builds, it is our class mechanic and if we have to dump points for our main mechanic to work properly with out condition builds, I don’t think it’s too much to ask for it to be worth the investment. The trait is (/ would be) fairly good and definitely a play style changer, not Proc based which is great and isn’t proccing while we do other things (like old Dhuumfire did they causes crazy burst conditions). I feel with a small bump it becomes a very unique and flavorful trait.

Wouldn’t take much to make me happy. 1 second. Make it happen Gee Man!

TheLastNobody.8319:

Silence you fool! Didn’t you see what they did to our Mark of Blood?! They merged it for PvP and PvE…and reduced it to 2 bleeds! DO YOU WANT FLESHY GOLEM AND HIS FRIENDS TO BE VICIOUSLY ASSAULTED BY THE BAT OF NERFS?! DO YOU?!?

Ah crap. I forgot they (of course) merged in the nerf direction with Necro… I’m terrified to know now… Why did you remind me of this…?

Sunshine.5014:

Maybe we should post this in the Engi forums so we can get some dev to look at it

Lol, all this Necromancer bleeding and frustration (And a few others).

-> “Sorry, slipped through the crack. Here’s your easy perma swiftness back, engineers. We love you!”

But lets not get too far off topic or they’ll turn away from the thread.

More +1s.

Linnael.1069:

There are the designated spots where engies, thieves, and mesmers will load in

They just haven’t put the one dangling in the mists yet, for necromancers, so that they are stuck perma-falling in the mists. d(‘-’d)

Captain Unusual.9163:

Lily.1935:

Oh I still hate the Curses changes. Honestly Its absolutely terrible. And consume condition is just dreadful. As he was talking about Master of corruption I just couldn’t help but think “You can’t be serious?” Everyone is talking about how terrible this trait is. NO ONE is praising it! NO ONE wants to run it!

I do, and I am. It looks like a fun trait. With conditions getting better across the board, a corruption/condi transfer build looks like it could be extremely fun.

Or does “NO ONE” just mean you and the posts you prefer to read?

I feel it more refers to practicality and PVP, if I’m honest. Without immediate transfers these doubling-conditions can be VERY problematic, especially taking 10% damage more from all sources for 4 seconds after you felt the need to heal. And even then, a few of our transfers requires that they actually land on the target. Beyond that~ you also are opting out of both Path of Corruption and Terror.

And to top it off, for most players, what really makes the trait terrible is that it is the cause of the baseline destruction. That’s enough to make anyone bitter. A few people might think this very niche trait might be “fun” to play with, at the cost of our only good heal.

Now, I’m not going to rage about it, but it’s certainly easy to understand being upset over…

Recently, the developers have been talking about removing all skill splits. Currently, Minions have an aditional 71% hp in PVE (and honestly, are a bit squishy in PVP modes). Will this be streamlined and merged in any way or will this difference remain post-patch and going forward?

Thanks!

Rhizo.5089:

That guy does not know his own changes. At 2:37 he states that CC is at 25 secs and that with master of corruption trait, necros can cast heal like every 20 secs. He might want to read his own changes. Cast time is now at 25 secs being increased to 30 secs with the 10 stacks of vulnerability and you need the trait to bring it back down to like 23 secs.

Trait is 33% off, 33% off of 30 is 20 seconds.

Still bad changes.

Are you serious…

Muchacho.2390:

I think dhuumfire will be decent with the reaper spec. But yeah for base necro ist kinda sucks due the slow casttime of Lifeblast. So maybe give Lifeblast a short casttime and adjust the numbers and dhuumfire would be decent for base necros.

I actually calculated damage for 1000 condition damage. (While yes, burn is faster and cleaves) Scepter did about 52% more damage in conditions than the burn added, and has quite a bit of range on it. Life blast’s comparison is just bad all around.

Essentially, for a Reaper you give up quite a bit of damage for it to be less cleanseable (shorter burst condi) and to possibly cleave up to 2 targets. (Assuming 6 points in either tree). And obviously Scepter/Bleed traits effect far more than just the auto attacks, so beyond the autos attack comparisons, it really falls behind in damage. Even a single added second would put it in a good spot, especially considering the requirement of two trees for even decent use.

I do agree, after cast on life blast could be reduced even at a slight loss of damage to compensate. It’s too kitten slow right now.

Bhawb.7408:

Dagger 3 is objectively bad for a variety of reasons, it needs a CD reduction or a secondary effect
Axe 2 is also objectively bad as a channeled skill. Axe 1 needs some love
We also still lack finishers across the board
Signet passives and Death Shroud
Delayed blast finisher on Putrid Explosion

Good points. I actually intended to bring up finishers and Signets in shroud but forgot, nice catch.

Toxsa.2701:

It’s kinda silly to nerf Vigor, yet buffing vigor on some classes, so the classes that really need that dodge got nerfed to ground, while the classes that can spam dodges can spam as much as they used to…

Still went down overall. Only one that really bothers me is the Engineer one, but I’m so done thinking about Engineer at this point…

Spectral is a good idea.

Couple reasons:
- it wouldn’t ruin the spell and could be left at 25 sec CD, slightly reduce the heal per condition and gain 1% LF instead per condition consumed.
- it gives more incentive to actually deviate from Vital Persistence, giving up Shroud defense for stronger healing.
- it’s generally a much cooler idea, consume conditions is about REMOVING conditions not removing them and adding 2 back… Like, please…

I want to do one again.

Bring runes of radiance to PvP.

d(‘-’d)

Signed~
An Eager Support Ele.

I wish they would increase the radius (on this an a lot of capped aoe buffs) so as to stop encouraging or even necessitating stacking. 480 would be great for aoe boon appliers that aren’t shouts imo.

Cecilia.5179:

Sigmoid.7082:

“-> Terror and PoC now contested.”

I dont see this one in particular as an issue. Most of the other things are stuff thats on point.

That’s a really painful nerf to terrormancer because the boon removal was somewhat vital to the usefulness of terror, and combined with everything else we’re losing, this is too much.

Well, and it breaks a play style which is something they had originally said they wanted to avoid, which is why I added it to the list.

I just wanted to start sort of a list here of all the things I personally felt weren’t touched on, which direly need to be. This will be from my perspective, so go ahead and each of you make your own list, keep it simple and to the point of anything you feel still needs looked at or wasn’t touched on enough.

These are the things I feel definitely need looked at as soon as possible, things I would have expected to be considered for this patch:
General
Cast times
- Minion Cast times (too long).
- Focus 5 cast time (too long).
- Dagger 2 channel too long.
- Dagger 3 cast time slightly too long or range to 900.
- Charge (Golem) simply ridiculous for a command.

Heals
- Heal spell improvements.
-> Vampirism passive is still useless.
-> Blood fiend still weak, too many weaknesses and leech healing doesn’t scale with master’s healing power.
-> Well of Blood. Too long of Cooldown/doesnt heal through shroud.
-> Consume Conditions sucks now.

Other Concerns
- No mention of Moa fix destroying minions and elites.
- Bug fixes on Putrid Explosion bast (delayed).
- Minion on-use abilities delayed too long.
- Flesh Golem
-> Active (Charge) cast time WAY too long. (As said above)
-> Needs to pulse 1 stability per 3 to match other long stabilities post-stability patch.
- Axe 1.

Traits
Curses
- Master Tier is a clusterf***.
-> Terror and PoC now contested.
-> No one is going to get the reduced CD on the new terrible Consume Conditions over the above. (Rarely, at best.)

Death Magic
- Soul Comprehension
-> Was terrible before, as a concept, concept stayed and was nerfed. Worst trait in the game.
- Flesh of the Master
->Essentially mandatory for pets to not get knocked over. Remove it and unsplit HP across the game, perhaps spill some into baseline for PVE still.

Soul Reaping
- Dhuumfire still low duration, weak compared to scepter.
- Vital Persistence dominance.

That’s my list of things I would still like looked at and considered for fixing/adjusting. Thanks for listening. Please feel free to make your own list (or tear mine apart, if you must).

Terrorsquad.2349:

iirc, it was first supposedly being buffed to 120%. I was surprised seeing Vigor nerfed by 50% instead lol..

That’s incorrect. Acrobat thieves were going up to 120% with a trait. That still exists. Baseline will be 50%, and Acro thieves improve it to 75%. Acro will still gain more dodges than most professions/builds.

Terrorsquad.2349:

iirc, it was first supposedly being buffed to 120%. I was surprised seeing Vigor nerfed by 50% instead lol..

That’s incorrect. Acrobat thieves were going up to 120% with a trait. That still exists. Baseline will be 50%, and Acro thieves improve it to 75%. Acro will still gain more dodges than most professions/builds.

Uh, it was necessary.

Will they be buffing Minions/Ranger Pets/Turrets with relation to armor level yet? Because they’re currently balanced around exotics and this is going to further hurt them. o.O

No one’s going to use the trait to reduce Corruption cooldowns by 33% (and add MORE self harm when you heal) over both Terror and Path of Corruption… It’s just not going to happen… They took a short cut to Worthlesstown with Consume Conditions…

Yeah, I mean, to be fair, Josh doesn’t really control any of the knobs on Necro, all he can do is clerify, so thanks, Josh.

Wouldn’t have minded hearing Robert Gee on Necro through, live… :/

Cynz.9437:

1. engis
2. everything else
3. necros~

Well, at least you’re honest when Necros get kicked. Respect.

Josh Davis.6015:

What is the question? Mending is not skill grouped and has no changes, as far as I can tell. Zerker stance did not get converted to resistance for 6/23 (still on the table, but hasn’t been decided yet).

Edit: Frenzy is converted to Quickness and the negative effect has been removed. Also gives 5 might on activation. Will update notes.

What about healing surge? I remember them saying Surge would be a shout and mending a physical.

I just love that they decided to nerd Consume Conditions before making Blood Fiend and SoV not suck with all their might.

Ah, Josh took back the rug. :P

Deimos Tel Arin.7391:

gg balanced builds with balanced stats.

Well from what I can tell, they didn’t nerf Celestial, and I assume because of the scaling conditions change, so balanced builds might still be sort of a thing, but they won’t be able to be as bunkery or deal as much damage (depending how you built previously) from what I can tell so far. I think Celestial will still have its place.

Its the pricing rage traffic. :P

I’d have rathered, more than anything, for them to add Jewels that were 30% of the amulet stats… Why would this have been such a hard conclusion?

Zenos Osgorma.2936:

needs more replys , somthing like this is boring to kids and won’t bring them into the thread.

though the idea is Rock soild its easy simple to understand clear as day , just keep bumping.

That’s a common issue with good ideas. If its so simply it feels like it “should just be the case”, it doesn’t strike up enough argument or debate and gets buried, so you get stuck with flame wars on the front page. :/

Can we only do it outside of sPVP? :P I like it for marking where thieves are moving. It’s a very useful tell.

He tried. Grouch gave him a dirty look and told him to put his work on hold to come look at all the new Engineer innovations then knocked his books on the floor before he could leave. When he bent down to pick them up he gave Robert and Accelerant-Packed atomic wedgie. After seeing him limp back to his desk, their boss told him to go home and rest.

Merely a setback, though.

skowcia.8257:

T raw.4658:

Loyo.8526:

Currently? necromancer isnt looking like a good contender. But I can say that Engineer is looking to receive a bunch more players into their family.

Making an asuran Engi names to vote on

“Teef Hardcounter”
“Face Roll Two Win”
“Anet’s Baby”
“Wish You played Engi”
“Crate For Lulz”

Also taking suggestions as well

Anets baby definitely

Anet Jr or Lil Anet, very asuran, very accurate. :P

DresdenAllblack.1249:

I don’t understand the vulnerability they attached to CC.
If we were to take a poll right now what class is the weakest across all three platforms, what would our answer be?

Engineer.