Non-ele player: “Here comes an ele, with rtl, and updraft… dodge…”
Ele player: “aww man how did I miss?”
Scene.
Lightning flash -> updraft -> laugh.
Seriously though. Prenerf RTL’s ground speed wasn’t any better than a warrior’s GS, or the new rocket boots, or just about any thief’s setup. Even rangers can match it with swoop and sword 2, though that would take two weapon sets.
Prenerfed RTL is the reason why D/D Ele were the king of PvP. You can do wreck things up, run away, heal up and then go back to kill some more. No amount of condis will hold them down because they have too much condi removal. Then they’ll just escape before you can pop up another snare.
Okay, you failed in your RTL, now what? You use Lightning Flash and then try again. Failed that time to? Use Mist forms. Hopefully this time, RTL will work in your favor.
Low risk with high rewards. Sound like warrior.
Uhh yeah you’re right that’s exactly how warrior is right now so… why is it that warriors don’t get the same treatment instead of small incremental adjustments (i.e. 8%)? It’s because it’ll ruin them just like it did to ele’s which is the point people are trying to make; to get things balanced so it’s fair for ele’s again in their current state.
What is wrong with small incremental adjustments? Warriors did receive massive nerfs and numerous small incremental nerfs. Just like Ele.
No matter, Ele will get massive buffs while Warriors will get massive nerfs this patch.
D/D ele sacrifice less than a mobility warrior. If Mobility warrior wants to be more mobile than Ele, then he has to give up something. A mobility warrior is not a 30/30/30/30/30 build. Ele still has everything because his mechanics gives him everything.
Try killing some from range as a D/D ele. You saying that ele give up nothing is just silly. With D/D we are 100% melee. We go out of that and we do NO damage, we cant swap to another weapon set like everyone else.
So no, Ele doesn’t have “everything” Pretty much EVERY ele build sacrifices something.
Unlike everyone else, An ele build has advantages and disadvantages. We can’t go zerker and still have good defense unlike most classes. We can’t go bunker and still do good damage unlike most others.
Vapor blade is range.
Even Warrior Longbow can’t even kill from range. Unless enemies is at low hp. Even then, Ele Vapor blade can do the same.
Pre-nerfed D/D probably did the same amount of damage or slightly more and still wreck things up as the Kings of PvP.
Non-ele player: “Here comes an ele, with rtl, and updraft… dodge…”
Ele player: “aww man how did I miss?”
Scene.
Lightning flash -> updraft -> laugh.
Seriously though. Prenerf RTL’s ground speed wasn’t any better than a warrior’s GS, or the new rocket boots, or just about any thief’s setup. Even rangers can match it with swoop and sword 2, though that would take two weapon sets.
Prenerfed RTL is the reason why D/D Ele were the king of PvP. You can do wreck things up, run away, heal up and then go back to kill some more. No amount of condis will hold them down because they have too much condi removal. Then they’ll just escape before you can pop up another snare.
Okay, you failed in your RTL, now what? You use Lightning Flash and then try again. Failed that time to? Use Mist forms. Hopefully this time, RTL will work in your favor.
Unnerfed rtl is still less mobile than warrior/thief. And differently from them, DD ele NEEDS IT to be able to stay in fighting range
Immune to crit has nothing to do with mobility and prevents ele from dealing damage leaving it still exposed to conditions (expecially immob).
So i don t get it.
D/D ele sacrifice less than a mobility warrior. If Mobility warrior wants to be more mobile than Ele, then he has to give up something. A mobility warrior is not a 30/30/30/30/30 build. Ele still has everything because his mechanics gives him everything.
Immune to crits while in a useless attunment awesome.
Warrior= 100% crit chance on burst skills such as eviscerate killshot earthshaker and combustive shot. Now the warrior doesn’t even have to put points into precision and can spend them elsewhere lol.
And Stone Heart can nulify the warrior trait anytime. And its is a big counter to the initial thief burst. That trait is great.
It’s great, but elementalists will never be as tanky as warriors if only because of the necessity to eventually switch out of earth if you want to do something other than die slowly.
Many D/D players already can bunker for a long time even right now when they are terrible. Stone heart + unnerfed RTL will make warrior laughable.
lol. The one game that gives you unlimited, instant teleportation to almost anywhere in the world, from absolutely anywhere in the world, and there’s a problem with it costing some pocket change?
Waypoint cost is not pocket change especially when you are exploring PvE areas only. PvE areas are highly unrewarding and very costly. The only way to get money is to Champ Farm and Dungeons.
Does ANet actively want to stop players from exploring the PvE world and herd players into farms? They should just delete PvE areas and only put in farm zones.
They remove almost all exploration costs but they don’t remove warp costs? What’s the deal with that?
Because that gold sink actually works. It encourages you to make a choice between spending time logged in experiencing the world or burning some accumulated wealth for convenience. COMPLETELY different proposition from the gold sinks that are being removed.
It also discourage exploring PvE world and encourage Dungeon and Champ farm grind.
Oh yeah, I forgot that the minimum health and armor class is tankier and more mobile than the highest health and armor class that also has massively better heals with less investment.
Of course, the latter is your main so I wouldn’t expect you to actually take a look at it objectively.
ArenaNet are making a lot of positive changes to the game in the next patch, but they really need to let us “black list” 1 or 2 spvp maps (just like we can in WoW).
Forcing people to play maps they hate, just results in them leaving the match resulting in 4 vs 5 or even quitting spvp altogether. A black list is better than removing Skyhammer altogether as it allows those who like the map to continue playing it.
If Ascended Materials were out, each and every material will be worth 8c each because there is so many of them being given out. Do this to t6 and their prices become worthless just as much.
I think ANet needs to remove the 14 silver cost and let us transform fragments to free.
While running Berserker set with Knight jewels, I have never considered getting the Power trait line except for Death from Above.
How much will we lose if we spend all 30 for power?
Defense trait is needed for survival and Hammer reduction.
Discipline halfway is needed for weapon swap.
Precision is needed for bleed and GS reduction.
What will you guys sacrifice for a one time assured crit?
While running Berserker/Knights?
No.
What You want is Valk or Cavalier set. It removes all need for precision. You need ferocity for more crit damage.
In my country, this is 11year old math. Dont be offended, you still have 24-days to learn 3rd grade calculus , correct the values and everything will be ok.
So, Rune of Perplexity should heal enemies whenever they attack?
I have to say…the cost of repairs has never been an issue for me one way or the other with regard to trying to avoid death. The consequences of death are (1) letting my party down; (2) public humiliation; (3) lost time and opportunity.
1. Running away and leaving your party to die lets your party down.
2. Running away lets the enemy humiliate you for being a coward.
3. Running away is lost time and opportunity so that you don’t get bags.
I think it will have the most negative impact in WvW.
In WvW, there is no waypoint fees. Only repair cost.
It keeps psychological warfare which is routing. If they think that the zerg they are in will fail, they’ll flee. If there is only losses if they keep staying, then there is no point in fighting further. It keeps the mentally of “I don’t want to die.”
If people are still running away even without repair costs I don’t think I ever want to play WvW again. With repair costs at least there is a valid excuse for running away.
Of course there is. A strategic retreat and regroup can be good. Running away and getting into a tower / castle can allow you to man / build and defend the tower. Running can provide time to heal up. On some maps you have to run fairly far to get back to where you were, so the time factor can be important, especially if you are trying to meet up with a superior force somewhere on the map.
It’s not like people have a reason to stand alone in front of 30 people and say “FREE BAGS, GET YOUR TAG IN”, unless of course, you do (and sometimes you do).
Oh, look. Another “I deserve a refund”-thread. Well guess what; You don’t. There is nothing being taken away from you. In fact, you get unlimited of those purchased skins, which means a-net is giving you something. You were fine with having spent money on 2 duplicates, but now you want a refund because you get more for free?
sigh
Only those that doesn’t know how much work or money is involved doesn’t see the problem at all.
They might as well give free legendaries to everyone.
As it still stacks with warrior interrupt it is still completely broken, I understand that you have nerfed the rune, but in order to make the rune ok for use in PvP, it CANT apply more than 3 stacks of confusion and it MUST NOT stack with mace interrupt trait on warrior.
3 Stacks of confusion along with the proc is still 6 stacks which is still a lot of confusion damage, why should it be 8??
If this goes live it will insanely broken. The builds that open up from this is great! but the side effects will just be too much. Clearly from the amount of people asking not to have this in PvP you can see the community’s view on this topic
PS: Honestly I don’t think you have tested mace interrupt build on warrior with that rune, if you have you would never let it live.
Mace is a really bad weaponset now that M/GS hundredblade stun has been nerfed to oblivion.
If it brings mace back, then I will be very happy to bring out my Braham Mace/shield.
I am afraid of duel requests.
Auto-decline is a standard dueling feature. There should be no reason for ANet to not add this.
I am afraid of someone constantly harassing me about dueling.
Report them for verbal abuse and block them. Should Gold be removed because a beggar constantly harrass me about giving them gold or should I report and block the beggar?
I am afraid dueling will make PvE players toxic.
I see many toxic PvE players and dueling hasn’t been implemented yet. Should ANet remove PvE because there is a toxic sludge in PvE?
I think that PvP isn’t balanced around 1v1 so I think that dueling should not exist.
1v1 happens in sPvP, whether or not you like it. They are called home bunker and far point assaulter.
Many MMORPG with dueling exist anyways.
I am afraid that forums will discuss about 1v1 balancing.
Everyone is always crying about thieves because of their 1v1 capabilities. This will not be new.
I am worried that thieves and mesmers sending duel request to me.
You have a choice. You can get a better build, or you can decline it. If you are feeling venturous, then duel them.
I think that duel rooms are a aviable alternative for dueling.
Anyone can easily grief in hotjoin. It takes one person to ruin the duel.
I think that duelist should buy custom arenas for their duels to be protected.
That is incredibly selfish. If I have to pay a monthly fee to duel, then you should pay a monthly fee to Champ farm and do dungeons.
It doesn’t interest me so I want ANet to use resources on something that interest me.
That is very selfish.
I worry that the duelers might get distracted by outside forces.
It is the duelist’s fault for picking a bad spot to duel. They have the choice to duel anywhere in the world.
I am afraid that duelist will interrupt something that I’ll do.
There is no way that a duelist can grief you anymore than another regular player can. In Dynamic events, even if duelist are fighting without doing anything to help the DE progression, those duelist will not gain any rewards nor make the DE more difficult to complete.
I am afraid of seeing two duelist fighting each other.
Their annoyance is equal to some player that is spamming their skills. Except, I see plenty of players spamming their skills.
Who are you to tell people that enjoy what they do is pointless. That is incredibly rude and ignorant.
Just because you enjoy something doesn’t mean it’s not pointless. It IS pointless. Ignorance has nothing to do with it. I’m aware that it can be fun. But that doesn’t mean Anet should devote time and energy into creating a feature where 2 individuals can duel in a PvE environment.
If you want dueling, duel in Custom Arenas. If your argument is that people can interfere, buy your own Custom Arena Stater Kit and make it private and assign allowances – plain and simple.
If Anet implements a Dueling format into the game, it will most likely be tied to sPvP/tPvP as a practice and learning tool. It will certainly not be considered a serious format of PvP, and will surely not see any LB statistics.
You know what, there is nothing more pointless than everything that you think is more important than dueling. Therefore, ANet should spend more time on implementing dueling.
Yes, Living Story has its flaws, but it’s not the idea itself that’s a failure. Think about it, how real would Tyria feel if it wasn’t changing at all? If every patch was adding permanent content? We would be fighting Scarlet million times, years after her death and that would make no sense.
Tyria doesn’t feel changed at all.
Dynamic events all over the world still repeats their same action, quest and lines over and over again.
So at least the Living Word makes Tyria feel like its changing, sure in small ways like LA or Kessex Hill. Also the spore events still seem to be popping up, so that’s something new.
Living World does not make Tyria feel like it is changing. Small ways doesn’t help.
Spore events feel like it is there because someone copy and pasted the event over there. The friendly npc surrounding doesn’t even know of its existence even if it is right there.
I think it will have the most negative impact in WvW.
In WvW, there is no waypoint fees. Only repair cost.
It keeps psychological warfare which is routing. If they think that the zerg they are in will fail, they’ll flee. If there is only losses if they keep staying, then there is no point in fighting further. It keeps the mentally of “I don’t want to die.”
How you describe it at least, makes it the same exact thing in essence. You want them to replace keys with boxes you flat out open, which is what double clicking a key essentially is (it’s even replaced with an openable chest). And you said nothing about affecting the RNG of regular chests. This implies keeping the drop rate of regular chests the same and changing key’s to open boxes, needlessy cutting out a middle man. They’d most likely charge you for the same amount as a normal key anyway and the drop rate for these new boxes would likely be the same as a key.
As I said you probably mean different but how you worded the post, what I essentially got was a needless change.
Newer version of BLC is the same thing as regular chest except it opens without a key. New BLC is dropped the same way like Keys do.
Regular chest RNG goes down to 0 and removed from the game.
…Then replace keys with a new version of Black Lion Chest in the store that does the exact same thing as the BLC except it opens without the need for a key.
Black Lion Chest drops very frequently and I keep getting those useless chests even though I have no keys for it.
Why? So I don’t have to get those useless boxes. They aren’t even valuable in the TP anyways.
It’s obvious that Dueling generates a lot of interest. Which, is something I find pretty strange.
Guild Wars has never been about a 1v1 experience. In fact, Guild Wars 1 was strongly positioned against it. Guild Wars 2, while more suitable for dueiling (I suppose), isn’t exactly designed for such gameplay. You can certainly duel, it is possible – obviously. However, what’s the purpose in regard to an outcome? You 1v1 until one build is proven better than the other. If you lose, you adjust your build to counter their build (pending they haven’t changed something to more-so dominate your build). The cycle continues until the excitement putters out. That’s why 1v1 on Guild Wars is referred to as “Build Wars.” There’s no point to it at all.
Many MMORPG are not designed for 1v1 and still have dueling.
With that being said – why would the Devs spend their time (and Anet’s money) developing and implementing a feature on the game that serves absolutely no function? You can duel in custom arenas. At least your “PvP” format is somewhat supported. I’m not complaining about the fact that there’s no HA style competitive play where maps progress with the same team… I’m not complaining that there’s no GvG style game play wherein Guilds can competitively play each other on maps with complex objectives that require coordination and skill. (Well… maybe I am.)
Devs should spend their time because dueling is fun.
Dueling in custom arenas does not work because it is griefable.
The ONLY way I could see dueling being a legitimate feature in the game is through either dueling in the Hall of Memories itself (Near the Profession NPCs), or implementing an NPC that brings both players to an instanced mini-zone in which to duel. This could be incredibly beneficial to conceptualizing builds and practicing/teaching new builds. For these purposes, and in this format, dueling can be a benefit to the gameplay.
How about no?
However, dueling in PvE isn’t a viable option. It’s distracting for PvE players who are playing casually and learning the game, it’s incredibly annoying to receive random duel invites, it’s an inefficient use of Dev time, etc… Think about how much effort would go into just making it so the AoE damage would only affect the dueling participants, and not the environment such as surrounding enemies, any ambient creatures, etc… and nullifying enemy aggro. You WOULD want enemy aggro nullified while dueling, right? (If you say no, and that you’d just duel in little outposts, what’s the difference in hoping into a custom arena?) So why couldn’t 2 players “duel” each other and just not fight… and run from LA to Malchor’s Leap without aggro? – Exploitative.
PvE players can just turn it down and Auto decline.
Your logic is flawless. Nice retorts. Your counter arguments are near perfection.
“How about no” in regard to a feature that would improve the playability of tPvP concepts that could also be utilized as a dueling function? Makes sense. Why would you want a feature to be cross-utilized? That would only be efficient. In what world would efficiency be accepted?
Also, I’ve played several games that weren’t balanced for 1v1 that allowed dueling. And I’ll say it again… it was pointless and clumsy and rather annoying for the average PvE player. Guild Wars was literally driven by GvG. The dev team has always been proponent to team-based strategic gameplay and have always been openly against the 1v1 concept. It’s a pointless mind-set. It settles nothing. It’s a waste of time.
Again, it ALWAYS comes down to Build Wars. Not skill. 1v1 dueling in an open world environment will never happen. Good luck if you truly believe it will happen in Guild Wars 2.
Who are you to tell people that enjoy what they do is pointless. That is incredibly rude and ignorant.
Just being in the area of an event scales it. You don’t have to do anything to make it harder on others.
To keep a consistent level of difficulty along with increased participation, an event will scale dynamically based on the number of active participants.
Test this yourself, go to a dynamic event and afk.
I speak from experience. I did not say all events work this way, but some do, for whatever reason, while others, do other odd things at times. Additionally, just being there does scale events even if they don’t actively participate. And maybe some have forgotten the lazy rangers standing around for days with a healing skill on auto getting credit for events?
Do I care if one or 2 people get credit for an event? Why would I really? Unless, of course, I am doing an event pretty much alone and they get credit for my work. That wasn’t really the point, though, and does not negate anything.
I was listing some of the things that players should consider because the devs will be considering them and they will have to take into account.
You most likely accidentally helped out an event.
But let say that you are right. Dueling isn’t anymore griefable than afking and should not be an issue.
Just being in the area of an event scales it. You don’t have to do anything to make it harder on others.
To keep a consistent level of difficulty along with increased participation, an event will scale dynamically based on the number of active participants.
Test this yourself, go to a dynamic event and afk.
I dont understand why people think this is an issue, none of the pve in this game is even remotely difficult, how would some people dueling nearby effect it for others in a meaningful way?
They try very hard to show much dueling will affect them negatively.
We could ridicule their responses or we could crush their worries all the way down. I rather use the latter.
Just being in the area of an event scales it. You don’t have to do anything to make it harder on others.
To keep a consistent level of difficulty along with increased participation, an event will scale dynamically based on the number of active participants.
Small list of issues and concerns directly involving dueling
Event scaling/credit/rewards/etc., for those that may try to use dueling to get around event mechanics/grief others; how many duels are allowed in an area at a time? How far away must each duel be from one another? How to ensure that outside buffs, fields, etc., do not influence a duel, or even their visual effects, while allowing others to see the duel? Do they create an artificial wall that those in the duel can’t leave; would it be possible to knock someone off a cliff during the duel? Would npc’s/mobs be allowed to enter or exit the duel area? How best to prevent them from interfering (granted, most npc’s this would be irrelevant, but mobs would cause problems)? How to stop people from standing on top of your duel and just be annoying (of course solution here is just go somewhere people aren’t, which leads to the question of why not designated areas?), while also not allowing the duel to block others from going about their business, activating events/missions/jump puzzles/reward chests/gathering nodes/and the like? What about environmental weapons/consumable weapons/ogre whistle/etc.? Do you adjust the level of the duelers to 80 or to the level of the map? If level of the map, what if the duel takes place at the transition between areas, like it does at Vigil Keep near the Mystic Forge/bank? What about duel time limits and forfeiting?
Why is dynamic event scaling should be a problem? People get rewards based on the damage it does to mobs. So even if you afk, you don’t get reward. If you duel right in the Dynamic event, and hit nothing. You don’t get rewards. If you do hit a mob, they are helping the dynamic event.
Any duels allowed at any time anywhere.
Prevent buff by outside preventing buffs.
No need to create a wall or anything.
Yes, we should be able to knock players off a cliff.
NPC mobs should enter.
Go somewhere else if someone is bothering you. And in designated areas, there will be griefers that will stand around in your duel more.
Do nothing about environmental weapons/consumable/ogre whistle. Players can restrict it themselves.
These are decisions that teams have to figure out solutions for, while also coming up wit other potential issues and concerns. It is not as simple as a few lines of code and you are done. Even a simple ‘feature’ can actually be quite complicated, due to everything else that must be considered and dealt with. I admit I am not sure how every other game gets around these issues, or if they even try. Some of these concerns would not exist in other games. I don’t really care how they addressed them, although it is something Arenanet would look at, if only to see what works/doesn’t work. My concern is for GW2.
I can think up a hundred of question on the wardrobe feature when it was suggested. But, will it stop ANet? No.
It’s obvious that Dueling generates a lot of interest. Which, is something I find pretty strange.
Guild Wars has never been about a 1v1 experience. In fact, Guild Wars 1 was strongly positioned against it. Guild Wars 2, while more suitable for dueiling (I suppose), isn’t exactly designed for such gameplay. You can certainly duel, it is possible – obviously. However, what’s the purpose in regard to an outcome? You 1v1 until one build is proven better than the other. If you lose, you adjust your build to counter their build (pending they haven’t changed something to more-so dominate your build). The cycle continues until the excitement putters out. That’s why 1v1 on Guild Wars is referred to as “Build Wars.” There’s no point to it at all.
Many MMORPG are not designed for 1v1 and still have dueling.
With that being said – why would the Devs spend their time (and Anet’s money) developing and implementing a feature on the game that serves absolutely no function? You can duel in custom arenas. At least your “PvP” format is somewhat supported. I’m not complaining about the fact that there’s no HA style competitive play where maps progress with the same team… I’m not complaining that there’s no GvG style game play wherein Guilds can competitively play each other on maps with complex objectives that require coordination and skill. (Well… maybe I am.)
Devs should spend their time because dueling is fun.
Dueling in custom arenas does not work because it is griefable.
The ONLY way I could see dueling being a legitimate feature in the game is through either dueling in the Hall of Memories itself (Near the Profession NPCs), or implementing an NPC that brings both players to an instanced mini-zone in which to duel. This could be incredibly beneficial to conceptualizing builds and practicing/teaching new builds. For these purposes, and in this format, dueling can be a benefit to the gameplay.
How about no?
However, dueling in PvE isn’t a viable option. It’s distracting for PvE players who are playing casually and learning the game, it’s incredibly annoying to receive random duel invites, it’s an inefficient use of Dev time, etc… Think about how much effort would go into just making it so the AoE damage would only affect the dueling participants, and not the environment such as surrounding enemies, any ambient creatures, etc… and nullifying enemy aggro. You WOULD want enemy aggro nullified while dueling, right? (If you say no, and that you’d just duel in little outposts, what’s the difference in hoping into a custom arena?) So why couldn’t 2 players “duel” each other and just not fight… and run from LA to Malchor’s Leap without aggro? – Exploitative.
PvE players can just turn it down and Auto decline.
I get what Imbune is saying. Having duels can enable bad behavior because some people (mostly kids) feel they have something to prove and can become really obnoxious. Even if there was an option to automatically refuse duels some people would still harass and insult you for not wanting to duel them. In WvW it’s not so bad because you have to go through a few extra steps in order to whisper someone but even then I’ve been shouted at by people I’ve beaten while roaming.
Compared to most MMOs the GW2 community is fairly positive and I really enjoy that. Open world dueling just offers up more opportunities for immature people to be a nuisance when right now there aren’t many. Just look at this thread, already I’m seeing “carebear” being thrown around as an insult. I haven’t seen that used since my (very) brief time with Aion. That isn’t the type of atmosphere I appreciate. The current level of duel support feels more than adequate because you can do it if you want but also have the ability to ignore it completely.
It also cannot be overstated how imbalanced certain abilities are in 1v1 situations and I don’t want the devs to waste time banning or rebalancing things just for 1v1s that don’t prove or accomplish anything.
Gold enable bad behavior by begging. Remove gold please.
Some people are exaggerating to a laughable extent. Everyone can see the issue, stop using posts like omg, Anet isn’t r reading the thread or omg, Anet didn’t change it yet. Ofc they won’t change it yet and I doubt they will do before trying it in-game.
Also, according to the beautiful people here who say they are playing GW2 for town clothes, please leave, Sims is ther for you, instead of inaccurate facts about how half GW2 are playing because town clothing.
I wonder why you would be here if you don’t care
Because I know alot of ignorant people who compare making dyes account bound to the capability of paying your way to max level with full gear. GW2 community is consisted of different bases and each one are ignorant about their own.
‘’Town clothing is why I play’‘. ’’Oh no, legendary is why I play’’. ‘’No no, I play because I am waiting for Titan that will come in 20 years, kitten Anet and GW2’’.
Also, I care about this place more than uneducated people not knwing anything about the MMO industry, believing that games should never evolve becasue they are happy with the way they are.
One more thing, read the EOLA before talking about ‘’Anet must refund’’.
