Guild Wars 2

lol nope. not… even close. the money behind gw2 is the only reason anyone would even consider it.

so what your saying is: anet excelled at internal testing / quality assurance?

roflol they just can’t not fail.

PowerBottom.5796:

Can everyone plz stop spamming this Thread with hatefueled nonsense?

Mature and restrained discourse failed to precipitate desired results.

Anet just ignored / kicked from beta those of us who told them nicely their pvp was bad and should be re-examined.

Now I’m kitten flailing at them – because I feel like that speaks to their intelligence level.

The gameplay is… not very enjoyable. The mature audience largely left to go find a better gaming experience. Whats left…

That’s why whenever I try to look up a modern blood spike build I get these awful convoluted things that look nowhere near as good as my origional!

Cheesey was the name of Guild Wars 1 Unique builds though. I was with EmbryoPvPstyle when he emailed anet and asked if using spirits to create walls would be considered ability abuse. (they said no, we did it on a relic run. It was… well you know what became of that!)

Derail away, the OP doesn’t mind.

Blood Spike was authored in response to their patch nerfing spirit spam. The new rule said that whenever a new spirit x was made, the old one would die. This meant that 1 ranger could effectively provide free mana to his whole team. At first it was going to be an attrition build, but I noticed the opportunity presented by life steal mechanics and a friend pointed out what a difficult time infuse monks would have under Quickening Zephyr (while we would have infinite manna).

It just sorta came together. Call it cheesey if you want, I’m proud of it.

Ya the Assasin really changed the metagame because it had teleports. Before that we had… necrotic transversal.

Just about every melee weapon set has a gap closer. Some ranged sets have a gap opener. Kiting works in GW2 but it has nothing to do with positioning. Your team doesn’t punish them for being over extended and out of range of their black line. lol.

Nah it’s just running around in a circle so you stay close to the point, the teams eventually sort of merge into a mixed blob. The team who’s ‘back line’ is best able to scrap has a pretty big advantage. Putting down a snare field is silly cause someone will spam a gap closer to ignore it.

Practically every melee weapon in this game has a gap closer. Ranged weapons usually have a gap opener. The result: You can kite 1v1. This mentality has an obvious problem when you get into a team situation.

Remember when cripple was a big deal instead of just getting auto removed, because there were like, cover conditions… and now you just spam conditions on people and remove all every x seconds.

ColinJohanson.2394:

You’re our boy Blu!

And our other streamers and shout casters as well!

Building in more support for folks who want to support and grow the PvP community in Gw2 is absolutely one of our major projects right now, and not something we’re going to say is good enough and done as is.

Why not say it’s good enough and done as is? I mean I’m not certain which decisions were yours personally but… as a whole I’d say arenanet is pretty generous with those statements when it comes to PvP. I’m surprised they didn’t say it was good enough and done as a whole back when having add sponsored youtube videos or streams was still illegal.

PowerBottom.5796:

GankSinatra.2653:

I would be happy to see ‘clears a condition every 10 seconds’ crap go. Could you make a skill more boring and braindead than this? Entirety of Mesmers excluded.

I don’t even know how they work exactly….

1) Do they trigger every 10 seconds and remove a condition even if there’s no condition on you at all?
2) Do they only trigger when you have a condition on you?
3) When exactly does the trigger “reset”? For example: I’m in the 10-second window (like at second 5) where I haven’t cleaned a condition with the Trait yet and I get one on me and it gets removed, do I have to w8 10 seconds now because the trigger reset, or 5 seconds until the next trigger is ready?

This makes quite a huge difference IMHO!

But yeah, passives like that are just so random and require no skill and ANet should move away of them. Simply connecting them to a dodge or a skill etc. just makes it that much less volatile and more skill-dependant.

Not requiring any skill is sort of the direction that arenanet has chosen to take Guild Wars 2. It’s their new theme.

Because Arenanet under funded and under staffed a department which was probably told they had to work with the PvE parts of the game (and didn’t have the team to make their own unique gameplay anyways)

So with spammy PvE abilities and traits they attempted to make something fun, and failed. I’m not sure if they’re bad or just too few with too little voice at inter-team meetings. But one way or another, PvP is a joke.

1) Positioning / Movement in GW2 suffers because everybody has access to at least one teleport. This makes positioning less of a tactical decision. Additionally, he PbAOE nature of many skills and the nature of ‘point control’ mode result in what I’m going to go ahead and call ‘no line’ combat — where everybody has to be set up to brawl in melee and an epic Frenzy + Heal Sig behind the enemies front line isn’t really epic or risky at all because… what’s a line?

2) Heh. I used to count the adrenaline charges so I could reversal an eviscerate or a final thrust. GW2 is too much of a cluster, and between position and cast times… I tried a staff ele back when your rolls could be blast finishers on water fields. I tried playing a support. Those heals just didn’t go far enough to keep your glass up. Cool downs and cast times, cool downs and cast times.

4) Ya reaction time is still there, more than ever really.

This reminds me of when I was trying to play UltraXL in Tribes 2…

It wasn’t a very popular mod. It had about 2 servers, there were certain hours during the day when you could find a game with more than 3v3 going. … those times only lasted for a few hours a day and longer on the weekends.

GW2 PvP isn’t quite there yet…

Yes. Conditions are both too easy to apply and to cleanse. Instead of being things you remove tactically it’s… just some stuff you spam. I guess you try to time some of your more powerful removals well. But there’s no more condition and cover condition, because that’s strategy and GW2 doesn’t like that kinda business.

Dunno Karla. Back in my day they released a title for winning enough TA games in a row. We qued with a monk, a warrior, a degen necro and a criple shot ranger — I think we had a disconnect somewhere past 80 wins.

We actually had teams try to snipe us and stuff. Was pretty silly.

Still doesn’t come close to my 8v8 memories. (I actually liked Halls more than GvG. I only did GvG so I could feel l337, you could get a lot more creative with a HoH team build. GvG I felt pretty locked into 1 boon prot, 1 heal monk, 1 runner (I prefered ele/mo), 2 warriors… that left you 3 slots to innovate with, and odds are pretty high one of those was a hex necro. Tombs on the other hand… hell Blood Spike is my fondest glory day, I wrote that, and I’ll always look back and smile — even if it wasn’t nearly as good as many of the other spike’s out there, it was cute.

I don’t care how many players you put into GW2 you’re never going to have the kind of careful skill selection that leads to builds like Blood Spike. This game draws nothing from Magic the Gathering.

GW1 HAD team combo’s and interactions.

GW2 Has combo fields and finishers – the devs trying hard to give us interaction and just not understanding their game. Then it has a short cool down immobilize on one character followed by a teammate with a burst channel on the other — that’s the combo that actually gets used w-a-y more than your stupid fire field.

edit: I use firefield as just one random example. Yes yes I know might stacks. Some combo finishers are worth picking up, but it’s not MtG, it’s not GW1.

I’m not mentioning the removal of healers because I think it doomed the game.

I’m mentioning it because it’s a good example of this development team’s decision making. They weighed a solid success against their desire to be unique, and they opted for unique. It’s like they were trying too hard to be innovative and so they made triangular wheels.

I don’t believe these people failed to respond to good ideas like yours because they had too much to deal with already. They failed to respond to good ideas like yours because they didn’t think of it themselves and they’ve got some sort of napoleon complex which compels them to prove to the world what geniuses they are. But much like George Lucas, they just aren’t — and we’re left to notice the changes in staff between GW1 Prophecies and this.

I kind of want to have copies of the Prince mailed to them all.

daydream — a lot of people bought the game with the expectation it might be a little like Guild Wars 1.

Pretty sure the Devs didn’t advertise that they would be starting over from scratch and taking no inspiration from Guild Wars 1.

Pretty sure they said AAA Esport, which GW1 was pretty close to being, if only team sizes were a bit smaller.

If they wanted to introduce a new kind of PvP for players like you, in addition to something that was the spiritual successor to GW1, that would have been fine. But instead they replaced it. That wasn’t cool. This … rivals Star Wars episodes 4, 5, and 6. Because even if I respect Star Wars more than I did Guild Wars, the failure was more pronounced.

I think anet should higher new people and have them follow Guild Wars 1 as inspiration.

dear anet, can you please start over with PvP and stop making new stuff ontop of your old bad kittenty stuff?

KarlaGrey I haven’t tried GW1 in a while but here’s my objection:

I played Prophecies, and it was fun. When Factions came out i had mixed feelings. The good was that the metagame had been shaken — the bad was the duplicate skills, they started to simplify things in a way I didn’t care for.

… pretty sure they just continued with the bad and slowly did less of the good.

I admit I should go try it before I judge, but from what I can tell all the talent left anet.

ensoriki:

The problem I have is that right now, anet is saying:

If you liked Guild Wars 1 PvP then gtfo.

The two games really have nothing in common except lore. The element of fun is… gone. It’s like turning an rts into a fps. They took away strategy and team composition and replaced it with spam and clutter.

No intricate deck building, just a couple of decent choices for each class on boringly simple map rotation.

This game has no depth. These Devs should be replaced.

Power, the problem… is you spent time on this post, which beta testers did, and were ignored.

For posts like yours to get listened to we need new leadership in the PvP team.

I also notice that you were a monk player. An awful lot of GW2 players from Gw1 seem to identify themselves as monk players. GW1 did that right, they had the best support class in any RPG to date.

But they did away with that, because recognizing what their fanbase found fun isn’t something this team does.

Agreed, They basically just said:

Hey guys, we didn’t do our jobs for the first year… we sorta put some tools out there so some of you can try and enjoy our game despite our lack of support. We’ll wait and see what you do with them… then we’ll add stuff to support that.

When the developers blogged about GW2 PvP i got the distinct impression it was being supported. That was a lie.

I thought they like, made tools to develop servers and game modes, and started with AAA Esport in mind, so things like leaderboards, and matchmaking, and what not would be easy to implement and in by launch. Then they could release some of these tools to the public so they could tinker with new game modes in private servers.

As it is, they stalled for a long time to release ‘paid tournaments’ which failed as horribly as the community said they would — then a year later put out all that stuff that should have been in at launch. But it’s buggy, and in a beta state.

I’m mad. I’m really mad. I started a thread asking anet to provide new leadership on their PvP team. I want something inspired by Guild Wars 1

I started a thread asking for a new development team for PvP. Essentailly a vote of no confidence.

They released lacking infastructure like spectator, match making, leader boards.

They took a year to release buggy dissatisfying and innefectual versions of those.

They ignored the flood of feedback telling them that we wanted more game modes because they didn’t want to lose their ‘esport potential’ by splitting the community — their esport potential is now lost because nobody plays their pvp that isn’t fun, which we told them from the beginning.

I have no confidence in this teams ability to make good decisions, because they’ve made so many bad ones despite such overwhelming council from their beta testers and fan base.

Please find and support that thread, hopefully the new guys (or gals) will consider a moba style game. I personally haven’t put much thought into how that would look, but admit to playing MOBAs (DotA2) and I’d love to see GW2 include that style of play if they think they can do so well.

Mostly though, I want something inspired by GW1. I think it’s good and healthy to include flavors of ‘fun’ found in modern popular games — bug I bought this game because I wanted a flavor of ‘fun’ found in Guild Wars 1. I feel lied to.

anet… kittened PvP up, and continue to kitten PvP up, and need to higher new leadership for PvP. They can keep the old staff, move areas maybe, I don’t care… but it needs OLD direction. Guild Wars 1 direction. Badly.

I don’t mind them buffing PvE. I thought it would be sorta fun to play PvE sometimes when I was taking a break or waiting for teammates to get online.

But they sacrificed PvP for it completely.

GW1 Had more to offer PvE than GW2 does PvP. In GW1, I was a PvPer to the core but I still did some furnace runs, I had OCD about exploring and when acheivements were patched in I was almost to cartographer already. (ran droks forge sometimes for free while waiting for ppl to get online.)

In GW2, the PvP scene just isn’t there, at all.

Even WvWvW is really not to my liking. I wont’ get into it cause I think people who play the game for WvWvW should steer that part of the game — but it aint for me. Too much zerg, not enough feeling of contribution.

Back to point:

Their PvP… if kitten. They are kitten. They should hire new people and have them look to GW1 for unkittenty inspiration.

I made a new one because I think I’m meaner about it, and I don’t believe in letting the Devs off easy.

During Beta and since there’s been a lot of critical feedback of the Devs for how they f*ed up PvP. It started constructive and articulate, but the devs never listened.

It takes time and effort to give logical reasons for WHY the devs are wrong, and when they just ignore it…

But spamming them with popular opinion? That might break through.

Your game is kitten. Start over, look at the source material for inspiration or your next attempt will be kitten too, should probably higher some new people too.

Conditions, Hexes, and Enchantments (boons) were a big deal in Guild Wars 1, as were their removals.

In Guild Wars 2 we prefer a ‘just spam that kitten at them’ approach, where tactical use of ones abilities becomes… less important. As a result, we need removal that can cope properly. Using removal that required tactical decision making wouldn’t fit, so we have passives, and just spam to remove all abilities on the defensive end as well.

Net result: you rolling your face on your keyboard became more viable. Because that’s the game Arenanet wanted to make a AAA Esport. -.-

Did I mention that I still want a refund?

See if you had been with the game in Beta… You would know something.

The Devs came out with PvP, and were winning for about the first 10 games against the group testing, which was about 15 people.

It took 15 people 10 games to figure out how to abuse stuff the Devs hadn’t thought of.

The Devs then ignored the critical input of these people.

So basically, the Devs don’t PvP, they don’t understand PvP, and they don’t listen to people that do.

Thusly, if Blu isn’t dumb, the devs won’t listen to him. So The odds of them endorsing him in any way are pretty slim.

Can the Devs come out and confirm that they are just giving all of us GW1 fans the finger and saying thanks for your moneies, now go away?

Or can they do better and come out and say : we’re developing a game type inspired by GW1 and it won’t require you to throw more money at a company you probably don’t have any more faith in?

Cause… I still want my AAA Esport PvP… and they really pretty nearly had that in GW1 if their team sizes were just smaller… so they scrapped everything they had that was good and went for something new, and bad.

I give them some small credit for Fielding the question about new game modes.

But then they just talked about small team deathmatch.

There’s still no talk about introducing a game mode anything similar to Guild Wars 1. Frankly I think a death match would be a small improvement on a deeply bad PvP experience.

Even if you all 5 fight at mid the game just isn’t that much fun. It’s a fuster cluck with limited build variety.

Bad game is bad and needs devs to acknowledge and start over.

I think at this point they could hire Jay Wilson. He at least had the sense to launch his awful game without PvP if it didn’t have PvP ready. Seriously, that guy, the guy who managed to ruin a diablo series game… had better judgement than arenanet on this.

I think the viewer expectation was that you talk about the future of the game. If we’re watching the cast… we probably already understand the basics of PvP.

I appreciate that you answered a question about if new game types would be introduced, and talked about death match, so let me just spell this out.

You lied to your fanbase and a lot of us are upset. We wanted a game inspired by GW1 GvG or at least Hall of Heroes. I think it’s generous to call this inspired by GW1s 4v4 arenas — definatly not the more popular of your game modes.

Your game lacks depth of strategy. You talked about team composition, no talk of build types like VIMWAY, Blood Spike, Ele Spike, NS, Bonds, Healing Ball, Ranger Spike, Ranger Interupt, I’d even take IWAY.

The reality is that this game, Guild Wars 2, is not a sequel to GW1 in PvP. It is a new game, and that game, unlike GW1, does not have a deep or rich PvP. It has a PvP. Shallow, clunky, buggy, red headed, and from the man before you.

You have a large fanbase that doesn’t want death match, we want depth. You did not provide. We want you to now. We wanted a video talking about how you would expand the depth of your game — not another pitiful attempt to convince us it already has depth. We tried that. I honestly really tried that. I gave you an open minded honest go and I found your gameplay lacking, I offered thoughtful constructive criticism, and you responded to small details slowly.

Just announce development of a game mode with the same flavor of fun as Guild Wars 1. Don’t put it in an expansion, nobody trusts you enough to spend more money. You betrayed that trust.

eh, the kitten filter was an example of anet trying to become a unique flower that wasn’t so bad.

pvp is an example of bad.

dryads (sylvari) are an example of (did u really think that was origional? All those nerds and nobody spoke up?)

You use either for the finisher as much as the skill it’s self. Don’t care about balance, that’s silly here anyway… y the stealth tho

It’s passed! What say you, is the PvP game about where it should have been at close of beta or launch?

(Match Making that still needs to weigh prebuilds. Spectator causing some bugs that get responed to quickly. Leader boards… leadin… pvp not much fine and not inspired by gw1, but a new game type and some balancing could hash this out.)

anet: designs best healer class in genre, throws it away so they can be unique flowers and innovaters.

I’d describe it as beta ready! Maybe even launch ready!

sniff It’s the 1 year anniversary of your last beta event and you’re right about where you should have been hen.

Cute.

That’s how I read it the first time, I cheered, I thought there was a lawsuit so those of us who bought your game for the PvP could get a refund.

But alas, I was wrong, and the email was just another peice of junk update.

Give us GW1 inspired PvP already you lazy bad kittens!

New game mode idea, it’s the spiritual successor to gw1. HoH or Guild Wars, either one.

Of course you’ll have to start over from the beginning, overhaul traits, balance PvP seperately . Have a spectator mode… lots of other forgotten features.

Ah! I was defeated by clever strategy and coordinated tteamwork… except gw2 is nothing like gw1, because the developers suffer from kitteninvitus

LOL underwater was one of their big things, but it was kitten, since beta. 8More later still not fixed?o

8 Months after launch, still cant hop into PvP w/ friend and enjoy.
t

Wait, kitten w/ a dev rolling a. Sigwarrior… a dev just said yolo. Lynch mob!

I remember promises of “AAA PvP” and “esport”. with depth of strategy and skill interplay inspired by magic the gathering.

We launched w/o duels, or spectate, or ladder, or que w/ a friend options, or balance, or a fun game mode, or fun non cluster kitten combat… and the only cross class skill combo people used weren’t the field / projectile finishers but: Guardian scepter immobilize + hundred blades, or smoke field exploit for perma invis.

so, are we there yet? How are wcoming along?ng

Because nobody at arena net cares about PvP.

naw. A moba Has more depth of strategy because of the gametypegame type / map.

Just a couple cherry piked examples of wtf?

Why woud we want to burn the internal cool down on Tempest Defense to a fear? More importantly, why WOULDN’T we want it to burn on immobilize, the least balanced of the CC methods.

One with Air looks like relic from when Anet promised move speed buffs would stack. They don’t anymore but still we have this really terrible trait.

Why do your classes all have differing and uneven amounts of polish? Warrior is well polished and do great PvE damage, everyone else you just sorta… launched. Remember how many Necro bugs there were at launch? How many are there STILL?

Why? Just Why? Why did you do this to the sequel of such a great game. You took an innovator in te field of organized rpg PvP and followed up with… really beautiful environments and a well written world… but stepped back everywhere else.

Historically, GW2 promised to become an esport, and don’t want to release multiple PvP types because this could divide the community (and subtract from viewer interest and such)

Looking back now, it’s apparent Gw2 will not be an esport. An alternate theory begins to emerge, gw2PvP lacks depth because arena net didn’t spend any real money developing it, and never will. They dedicated just enough money to scam gw1 pPvP fans into buying their game and otherwise don’t care. That is why.

Then they’d have to admit nobody plays their kittentie esport triple a TPvP and they promised us all steaks, took our $60 and served us week old McDoubles.

inspired by magic the gathering or gw1 my kitten false advertising shame

Ya that MTG analogy is cute. Anet should offer refunds, it would be ethical. This is false advertising. They showed us agormet steak and gave us a week old mcdouble. More than the money i I feel betrayed.