Because org groups need to farm tickets to pay for paid tournament entry fees..
o… wait…
Nobody got the king of the hill sarcasm? Really? ok think of it like this:
the current game type has 3 nodes, 4 people rush mid while 1 caps safe then does something else… or joins mid.
king of the hill, would be 4 people cap mid while one person does ‘map specific objective’ or counters other teams…
so there isnt really diversity there, least not much
5 Sig warrior buff, because warriors lack a viable tpvp build.
necromancer bug fix: we have reviewed all standing necromancer bugs and decided that they are working well. as such tooltips have been updated to more accurately describe ability behavior
new game mode: king of the hill, with varrying map mechanics. this should bring more diversity so people dont have to play capture and hold all of the time…
it took them like like, half a year to make a leader board and implement ‘paid tournaments’
good luck with that preare match
the devs play everything, they arent really biased — they do have bad judgement and use sub optimal strategies the chalk their loss up to a lack of individual skill instead of the bad split they used.
is the long bow still a completely useless weapon?
anyways ya… lot of that whole ‘my class only has x build’ where x is an integer value greater than or equal to 0
ur a funny dude, thinking we should struggle to keep melee off us and do equal glass damage back.
thief gets teleport steal, teleport on each weapon set (initiative based mind you) (okay not pistol pistol but) and a choice of teleport utilities. the average thief build has 4 ‘pursuit’ gap closers.
anet kittened the idea of a kiting lines of battle game sideways already, you cant fix that with a change to the staff.
i mean youre right about the various nerfs, though i think evasive arcana nerf was aimed at us cause we were a great bunker. they all have eroded staff ele and it is bad now but hey, at least were not warriors right?
how about elite skills should feel good, and each class should have real choices about which to bring into pvp. have reasonable cool downs and such.
then getting countered isnt a big deal, cause it wasnt your i win button anyways.
ya, mesmers have more viable builds than most classes…
anet managed to almost balance this game, most classes see roughly even representation in tpvp and fair equal in duels…
most classes do this with 1 build and 1 build only.
its ‘balanced’ like that.
many people have asked for more viable builds. warriors would like one to start with, then we can move on from there.
We also think that we need to improve the PvP rewards. I can’t give too many details (sorry to say that so often guys), but this is something that’s already in the plans.
and theres the real question: did anet compromise their origional intentions or not?
wow power, you really worked kitten this. i have the feeling you spent more time on these notes than arenanet has on balance decisions to date. good luck with the implementation.
gank sinatra -) u trollin or did they really own up and start developing new game modes? source?
im not sayin lets go play smite, im saying that if the best pvp experience this game has to offer boils down to arena death match… well there are some better arena death match games out there. gw2 isnt really going to shine as somehow better than them.
but if were talking graphics, at least nobody has a hard time following whats happening in a smite game. i spent time getting aclimated to both games, one is a lot clearer to follow.
also: in Mobas, the important graphic is the tittie pic of the hero on load screen. duh, hasnt LoL taught you anything?
edit: o but the beta graphics prolly wont get much better. graphics dont make good game play, most people run minecraft mode tribes for better fps.
graohics are for the single player crowd.
(edited by ryston.7640)
ya so gw2 pvp is basically a bad arena brawler now, so y not play a game thats designed to be that, but well?
sounds from the forums like gw2 is finally getting to a place of done ish. as in fixed ish.
still the same boring game type and strategy, but interesting tactics and people have moved onto informal arena, where tactics are all that count anyways.
as an arena game, why not just play like, smite? no dodging and less individual customization but more team customization, and the combats a lot easier to follow / more fun.
ya, gw2 rivals star wars 123 for face palm -isthisreallythesameperson- status
face palms
k he mentioned warrior so he could get bumps from all the people who play warrior. He plays thief.
anet is to busy doing lines of coke on their servers with your money to be troubled fixing obvious trait flaws
this forum is an a bung hole because the game is …. bung
I imagine the PvP team thought they knew how high end PvP would be played, but none of the developers were actually more than slightly above average players – and some beta testers ive spoken with have said the devs generally didnt listen to critical feedback that didnt come heavily sugar coated and suggest only small changes.
additionally ive heard a rumor that the dev team lost an employee who somehow set back their spectator and match making systems.
all this combined with a slow recovery which indicates to me a small team count…
alternately jon peters and such could know what they need (to redesign the basic gameplay from the ground up.) but get told no because someone higher up says pve players need to recognize abilities in pvp.
i think plan a sounds more likely, because: downed state, that really dubious and unecessary change that weve all sort of learned to accept and made the best of. really though, we all know there are a number of better systems for pvp. oh and teleports, because they mean little in pve. but in pvp they trivialize position decisions and undermine tactical stuff like lines of combat. so im sure the pvp team requested all 999999 of those.
do you realize that the thief has a teleport or gap closer on both weapon swaps, as a class ability, and as a utility. :-/ tell me again how that makes for captivating dives or risky position play?
Hm, picking 3 is not easy. My biggest wish would be to evolve some kind of mid- and backlines out of this giant brawl pvp is atm.
oo i replace all 3 of my wishes with this.
a note: you wont have meaningful lines with so many teleports. giving people a 1 for 1 (defense and escape) would ruin combat lines because a aggressor can coordinate. some classes like thief have so many its ridiculous.
to have lines of combat you need the melee to have to close on and catch up to the ranged. letting them start in melee means the lines start tangled and crossed and only detangle with retreat.
1. gw1-esque combat, with deliberate condition/boon application and removal, team oriented tactics, and magic the gathering inspired skills / traits. (or just a game mode thats fun, but skill / trait changes will be a must in that)
2. a solid random que system
3. more build diversity – many classes cant use condition oriented weapons because theircondition builds are trashy, for example. or their class lacks built in survivability so they cant use offensive amulets. just a total overhaul of traits and skills so they present real options.
This is GW2, where PvP means capture point only and everyone has a teleport utility to back up their teleport weapon skill with a teleport weapon swap and a class mechanic teleport sometimes.
‘ranged’ is a concept grounded in positioning, which gw2 does not promote.
Some really quality points in this thread. I hope the devs listen and commit resources to making good on their so far false promises.
What?
PVP is a joke, just role thief, you’ll enjoy the game more.
Not that you auto win, but you only lose by being stupid, and you cn always pick off someone on the enemy tteam. Not just tpvp, wvwvw too.PvE is so easy who cares? ve
Don’t like melee? Wrong game brot
I think that gw2 PvP is officially in beta now, the community size and stage of development all seem appropriate for that comparison
So, bear with me but…
in PvP the auto attack is boring. Even when the third hits the one to dodge…
what if auto attacks stacked various conditions, like a 1% cripple, or a vulnerability, or weakness. Then avoiding attacks, purging conditions, and dodging well identified larger attacks would become easier to watch and more suspenseful.
Just an idea to discuss. I get that anet wants people who only play PvE to watch PvP and get what’s going on, so they have hesitated to make balance decisions for just PvP, but … they need to step away from that, because nobody plays their PvP.
And that makes its decline, and the accompanying decrease in quality, all the more tragic. Much like the fact it is/was way ahead of its time. I cannot help but wonder how its fate would look like, had it been created years later, in the era when streaming and esports became a big thing.
It was packaged as Magic the Gathering on a pc. You have tons of skills that makes it possible for tons of builds to be created. But sad move is sad move, they started favoring the balanced setup. So anything (smite, spikes, thumpers, spearchuckers, iway, spirit ways, what-ever ways, etc. FoTMs) that does not look balanced and beat balanced was killed. Why? Because balanced was what the leet Koreans ran and they excelled at it. They made it the must learn template and glorified it. So bad move is bad move.
then matches became balanced vs balanced, most mirror matches and the only difference is a class or two. it became boring. 2 monks is a must. and those who ran it defended it that it requires skill to run and anything else is noob or overpowered. Glass cannon builds, which term i only heard when i played GW2, already exist since 2005 GW1 and they were killed. Defensive ball builds already exist since 2005 GW1 and it was not permitted to grow. Only kittening balanced build is favored.
I bet if GW1 was released this days, it would be a different one. with the days of reddit and powerful social media, peoples opinion will matter more. more open mindedness and less dependence on a small circle of balanced runners from the skill balancers. Sure decay was expected because there was no growth. no moving on beyond balanced, just forcing everyone to run it. And those who first ran balanced successfully didn’t stay for 5-7 years. They quit. People quit. Sure the tactics in balanced evolved but it can only evolve at a certain point.
In short, those skill balances favoring one build template/setup and ensued mirror matches destroyed GW1. Again, thanks Izzy for listening to QQs. You killed diversity and fun in Guild Wars One. Now it’s dead and these balanced runners want it back. I will LOL if this happens.
I agree, and for this reason I preferred to run tombs over GvG. Hey I was the boon prot monk when we played GvG. We ran balanced. but we also wrote blood spike and first tried it on the lava guild hall. (between seasons mind you)
Watching GW1 PvP this days after 8 years, is like still using your Nokia 5110 as your cell phone this time of the year. The game mechanics is old. it is not dynamic. it’s point and click. And the CCs are archaic. They say it’s complicated but i don’t see the complication. Maybe it’s just rigid, well it’s rigid because everything is rigid. Yeah you dshotted or powerblocked infuse health. Sure your skilled. But you’re indeed skilled if you did this on a dialup connection.
It is nothing like that at all. The combat mechanics and the way the game is designed is eternities ahead of any MOBA. HoN, DotA, LoL are the only things that come remotely close to it. The game is old, the mechanics are not. The game is not point in click. You don’t see the complication because you never played the game at a high level. The way you describe integration between dshot/powerblock and infuse health doesn’t define skill. You can’t reflex interupting infuse. The game has much more than that and that is why more people still play GW1 PvP than GW2 s/tPvP.
I’m the one of the many (i hope) that appreciates the more dynamic and more tactical gameplay of GW2. And this is coming from someone who don’t play tPvP. I watched Team Paradigm and the shoutcasts and I appreciated their skill level and the skill level of their enemies even. it’s fast paced. unpredictable. And concise. No kittenty things such as tie breaker or killing an NPC to win. It’s easy to watch. Easy to follow. Just like every other sports but scrabble. Moreover, The game doesn’t depend on killing an NPC.
You are in the minority. If that copy cat guild can ever be a successful GW1 guild, I’ll give them props. GW2 is no more concise than GW1. In fact, I’d say it is less concise as you need 8 coordinated players as opposed to just 5. To kill an NPC in GW1 you have to outplay your opponent. It isn’t PvE. And the game makes much more sense and is more thrilling than any GW2 play so far.
Again you are showing that you are really unfamiliar with high level play in GW1.
Note – Team Paradigm took their name from a GvG guild that I ran back in GW1 in 2008. Still never understood their fanaticism with my guild.
I’ve played my share of GW1 gvgs and most of the time we won even at 60 dp because we kittening killed an NPC.
r2000 GvGs don’t count. Again you are showing that you are really unfamiliar with high level play in GW1.
But one thing that made GW1 GvG a poignant mark on my gaming memory. War Machine [WM] versus Lamer’s Ultimate Majority [LuM]. Everyother matches don’t even compare.
These were good matches. Sadly it occured a little bit before I started PvP.
Everything coming out of your mouth is from that of someone who was never an exceptional player at Guild Wars 1 PvP. I am not trying to be insulting or rude by repeating that statement to you – It is my assessment based on your statements. Your argument isn’t strong and has a ton of inaccuracies and a lot of opinions based on your lack of understanding of GW1 and your opinion that you think you understand GW2 PvP at the apex of its competitive performance.
That pretty much discredit’s your entire argument.
Hey, played some of the higher end PvP as well. … we both know most people played IWAY… hopefully in halls instead of GvG.
anet needs to appeal to those players too if they want a large following.
they can’t just pander to you and me.
so youre right, they SHOULD capture what was great about gw1, but some changes did need to happen.
maybe ill get some good conversation out of this:
i played prophecies, when factions came out i sorta kept on playing monk but i quit worrying about the meta some, and eventually quit. (graduated highschool, got a job, so forth).
it seemed to me at the time that the assasins shadow step abilities were really wreaking havoc on the meta, in a bad way. a number of builds were being developed that could solo the guild lord or at least all his guards and had too much mocement to really be punished for an attempt (keeping one for one busy)
Did it pan out that way?
Well first of all, I respect the initiative that the OP is putting out.
But I still have to point out, that GW2 had it all when it came out. Had the hype, had loads of players ready to get into some serious pvp, but Anet lost it all. Quite simply because there was 0 attention given to sPvP. It has almost been a year now since the game was released, and the amount of work they did on sPvP since then equals what I expected them to do in first 2 months. And if they wanted to keep people playing sPvP they should have done it in 2 months. If they were serious about spvp becoming an e-sport, they WOULD have done it in 2 months.
Fact is, GW2 has no competition out there on the MMO market when it comes to sPvP. Yet they have still lost so many players. Simply because sPvP is just bad and it won’t ever be as big as GW1 was.
Hey, I think I’ve probably been about as toxic about what Anet should have done as any one. Seriously iI’ve pulled no punches.
if Anet wants to try and make a good game NOW… iI’ll still support their effort.
I think one cornerstone of gw1 was:
the melee had to catch the ranged. Iwasn’t the ranged job to escape the melee
u know whaI mean. i
nt
Hey all, just wanted to say that this is a great conversation, and we’re keeping an eye on it. I would ask, though, that we keep it on topic. We’re very interested in what could come of this, and are really excited by the prospect of the Guild Wars 2 players banding together to produce these great tournaments and shoutcasted matches.
For a dev to respond to a thread such as this…I’m impressed
im
I see, have authored… a lot of threads asking for gw1 inspired play, mob a inspired play, or just some general could you make your game fun?
can we get a dev response to the theme? I heard them say sure maybe death match modeled after custom servers… sort of missing the point.
gw has a huge fan base who hates this new pvp. Wants something else.
any comments? Can we all just go kitten ourselves? Maybe in an expansion? Maybe for free in a year?
nice satire of ppl that want gw1 like fun.
myself included in that crowd.
I don’t think we all want gw1 copy pasta’d iI think we just want something with full team coordination, lines of combat, and skill bars that actually synergize because of well written ability rules instead of mehtastic field / finisher
dude ranger pets were a HUGE part of good PvP teams. Don’t you remember IWAY?
we could compare it to gw1 if we had numbers.
Pretty sure gw1 had more viewership than gw2.
It just plain feels like they made a PvE game, did a few comb covers to fix some obvious balance iissues – spent time making isle of the mists I’ll give them that…
then made some arbitrary decision about what type oPvP to go with and slapped it together.
vp
I blindly recommend trying smite. Those developers are trying to do something new with the mobamob a genre and iI am sorta starting to trust them.
dunno tho, between diablo 3. And guildwarsguild wars 2. I sort of feel like the industry stopped letting people who enjoy video games call the shots.
Maybe, just maybe, the next time one of these developers is hired to write a sequel, they’ll play the original and talk to original players about what keeps them interested.
LooI i have followed other sequels before. Im a tribes fan. HiRez made some mistakes, but they made a tribes game. i offer quality feedback and give them kudos for not following T:V. i have lots of criticisms for them, but im polite and i respect them.
arenanet done kittened up too much for respect, they get scorn and keyboard wrath! maybe next time they’ll learn. maybe one thing they’ll consider next time will be the importance that positioning plays in any form of strategic gameplay – and how gap closers undermine that. again, some gap closers OK, blink would have started as an ultimate in my version of gw2, but it would be there.
I want the devas to read this forum and feel guilty that they ruined a good IP and didn’t deliver on advertisements. Hopefully they won’t kitten up whatever game they’re hired onto next.
but aside from my deep and passionate dislike for what they did with gw2… gap closers, seriously this is one of my few constructive threads. Most of the timeI just say wah I hate arenanet,
I don’t know why it has to be all or nothing. Just put the game on hold, until ArenaNet figures things out, and then come back and see if you can like the game again.
I did that 9 months ago. Still waiting lol
Ya I quit a while ago, now I haunt the forums and read patch notes, hoping for change. I’m a real fan of gw1, dedicated. But dedication sshouldn’t just mean playing this steaming pile of caca, it means treating it like the alpha fail it is and spamming forum boards for change that won’t ever come…
Or you could cut out all the teleports and leaps for a bit and then add a few of them back slowly. Maybe the game would become fun
I do dislike the game alot. Gap closers are a good starting point for why:
yes, you would have to redesign a alot of this game if you changed gap closers. Much of this game needs redesigning
Gap closers (or openers) are abilities which rapidly move you from point a to be, such as teleports, leaps, charges, etc. These are diferintiated from speed boosts.
One major part of tactical play involves and centres around lines of combat. Where they are, when people cross them, and how effectively you can punish someone for ‘diving’ or crossing your front lines threat range.
Even in chess, an archaic and classic game which often seems a scrambled mess of threats and counter threat, zone control plays an important and highly spectatable role.
gap closers trivialize this. They enable dives, which permiate front lines and they also allow back liners free escape from enemy dives. It makes your game harder to watch or understand for the uninitiated and it generally leads to a scrambled mess that’s difficult to understand from a distance.
in short: while interesting, gap closers should be issued sparingly. Gw2 hands them out abundantly. I optomistically consider this a ssymptom of PvE. please remove.
Noah, prolly they don’t do it cause they dontdon’t have time
A fun PvP game doesn’t need:
a leveling system
A gear progression system
Guildwars got those both right.
Doesn’t need a skill system or gameplay designed around PvE.
ya except do that with a complex list of skills like gw1 had, instead of the bad list / balance we have in gw2.
to clarify, bad balance doesnt mean some class is op or another is up in this case. bad means that playing the game well isnt playing the game fun.