Guild Wars 2

I thought gw was supposed to be inspired by mtg. i recall a dev quote about that.

gw1 was.

whats with the broken promise there for gw2?

this feels like when you get a new boss, fresh from college who’s never done any real work – eager to prove he’s a good ideas man so he starts changing the way work gets done inorder to prove he’s a genius with supervision.

only he actually has no idea how things work, and so he kittens everything up and blames the workers for not giving his vision a chance because they cant embrace change…

when the workers were actually only dragging their feet to stop the work from getting completely kitten.

ya. somewhere in that office is an ideas man with a big head who needs to have it popped.

I think they just realized that their game isnt complex and doesnt have tactics, so the simpilest approach to balance is to scale peoples auto attack

Mammoth.1975:

This thread seems productive, can I join in?

QQQQQQQQQQQ

well, i see this as a question of semantics.

If ‘productive’ can be used to describe offorts thus far aimed towards delivering AAA esport yada yada, than this article is absolutely productive!

are we there yet?

Oh the finally was a ruse, so people would think this thread had something new, instead of the same old tired cry for arenanet to make good on their promise.

I’ve had my qualms about Guild Wars 2, mostly the PvP. Which isn’t fun, nor inspired by Guild Wars 1 in any way, and you owe me a refund.

But I have to admit, your launch went pretty smoothly for a MMO in this era. FF14 is having a pretty miserable launch and I admit I’m thinking “kitten , Anet got this kitten right why can’t they.”

Oh for those who are wondering, I’m playing FF14 PvE because … I hope there’s a challenge, which GW2 PvE lacks. But hey, you guys have a pretty environment and fun leveling process.

no, the game, and i infer the devs, are bad.

the community is comprised of leftovers that still play this mostly bad game.

i kinda want to see gw2 fail at being an esport since anet completely disowned its gw1 player base.

then launched with a cripled pvp, and took forever to fix.

but apparently its limping on to success, so … wohoo, i guess. kick

Anet couldn’t admit this, but they admitted that the pvp community seems to think so.

Think they’ll ever come around on downed state, rallying, or their whole game in general?

Most of all do you think they’ll ever admit their traits are boring and there’s no ‘deck building’ in this game at all?

Anet only grudgingly admits that their underwater combat is awful, because anet doesn’t admit to their faults, which is why this game sucks.

Diage.6451:

Bringing this concept home, I want to analyze what Anet did.
For GW2, they wanted to create a competitive experience. In doing so, they looked to games that are already considered competitive and tried to emulate those things.

Ya… they didn’t really borrow from Guild Wars 1 though. Not even a little. Not even a little ittle bitty bit.

So you’re right, they wind up with no niche, and an unfun game. They had a shoe in to a niche, but they didn’t take it.

Arenanet are the greatest bunch of bond villains of all time. They had Bond cornered (Had a fan base and a model for fun PvP), they just had to change his status to dead (add a z-axis, some new graphics, reduce the skills list and add visible animations to the ones you kept)… but instead they devised some flawed mechanism to do the job for them while they left the room (attempted to be unique and make up new gameplay / copy from other games in other genre’s — ignore their fanbases feedback telling them what they wanted instead and then failed to provide basic structures like spectator, match making, etc.).

All in all I think a lot of Anet’s PvP team should apply to work with Disney on this new starwars film, continue George Lucas’ legacy.

Decrypter.1785:

Custom arenas open for the masses

I like these changes over all but I gotta say…

the masses…

seems rather optimistic to me.

heh heh heh.

About that long bow…

From what I read ESL is hosting this event, they aren’t picking up GW2. They also only plan on having 16 teams register.

Sounds like Anet threw some money around and is trying to take off as an esport… it worked for WoW, that game was never an esport of it’s own merit, always only because Blizzard pushed it down the communities throat.

I’m honestly not sure if this one will work or not.

lol listen to you, youre so cute.

gw2 isnt about gimmic strategies like body blocking, its about skill and clever builds. in gw2 we have gap closers and no body blocking to ensure gimmics like positioning and such arent a part of the equation

well i dont doubt the expansion will sell.

i doubt if anyone will buy it because they want to stay competitive / current with this pvp.

ncsoft is missing out on a revenue opportunity by releasing an mmo without a real pvp mode.

Empathetic Fighter.2065:

ryston.7640:

because the downed state is considered within the context of the overall class. so strong ‘up state’ classes have weak downed state.

or because bad downed states are bad, and nothing about them has ever made much sense anyways, so why not?

To jump on the sarcasm-train: That’s why warriors have this insane downstate, while eles only can vapor-form to anywhere, including portals…

hey now, ele used to have the worst downed state, but then everyone complained and suggested anet nerf the other downed states to be more like ele (since nobody liked downed states)

so anet buffed ele downed, and most of the people who still play dont mind downed state, therfore anets decisions are popular.

na, smite gives a countdown until the next que pop and stuff, pretty convenient.

oh in gw2… yea, not enough people play, gotta login during primetime hours.

because the downed state is considered within the context of the overall class. so strong ‘up state’ classes have weak downed state.

or because bad downed states are bad, and nothing about them has ever made much sense anyways, so why not?

like you said, it wasnt issues 1 & 2, it was the preponderance of all three hundred.

Smite and dota 2 f2p

the game is not balanced, around downed state or otherwise.

we are not wanting to win 1v4 unless the 4 drool. we just dont think its fun. its team oriented sure, on paper its great, in practice it just isnt. we’d rather have the team mechanics gw1 had, you know, fun ones.

i get that some people like downed state and find it fun. those people are a minority, and gw2 pvp is turning into a small community instead of a thriving esport because anet isnt getting this.

how many people does arenanet estimate will purchase gems or expansions because of the PvP content?

right, im betting not many. most people who play pvp right now seem to main pve and just sort of dabble. even including those, the community is small.

so we have a large, well written engine which includes observer mode and some form of rating / match making… earning very little revenue.

what it needs to generate revenue is new game play design. this means new weapon skills, utility skills, and traits – with some new animations but likely not many. new maps.

how much more development time (money) would it take to go from what we have, to something good? would that see returns in increased sales of gems / expansions?

thoughts? whats stopping anet from making a ‘mod’ of their game inorder to make money?

so far i see some potential arguments against:

we might spend all that money and get it wrong again. fair point, but having some fresh vision could help.

we want pvp to be similar to pve so pve players will watch pvp tournaments, to which i counter: you didnt make it right for that. if you want that, design pvp then alter pve to have more similarity. the current mess of mechanics cant make fun pvp and your pve content is very easy for an organized group, i cant take a argument about pve balance seriously.

weve fixed the problems with pvp now we just need advertising to draw players back. uhm. no, no youve still not fixed pvp, it still suffers from a lot of issues i shant go into here.

we have a dedicated if small pvp community, what about them? well the small bit means you dont make money off them, so … thats what about them. you HAD a large and dedicated community you already alienated, not that two wrongs make a right.

any other arguments against moding out gw2 pvp?

TGSlasher.1458:

ryston.7640:

Sounds necro by lore.

by mechanic idk

imo mesmer should lose illusions and get interrupt f1-4 buttons.

f1 interrupts targets action and deals damage
f2 … and drains endurance
f3… and copies interrupted skill in its place for a single use.
f4… and puts the skill on an extended cool down.

way more mesmer like than clutter illusions

Sounds like Guildwars 1 Mesmer.

i know right? what a weird idea, to keep what worked in gw1, instead of just paying it lip service by including stuff with the same name.

but then thats sorta what guild wars 2 IS, something with a name and few other similarities to it’s origional.

Deimos Tel Arin.7391:

well, i think probably it will be like this:
“much of the remaining community doesnt seem to mind the downed state and perhaps even have learned to enjoy it.”

downed state will not be removed, maybe some balance changes may occur. maybe.

someone recently explained, and i paraphrase:

’Most current gw2 PvP players are also PvE players, and dable in pvp, excepting a small few who, because of the small population, have risen to god like status.

anet will continue to use these players in state of the game analysis, and these players will continue to support the gameplay more or less as is, because they are ontop and enjoy things that way. Meanwhile most gamers interested in pvp will play other games.’

this seems true to me, and frames nicely my argument in support of petitioning anet for meaningful change to pvp.

their current engine is nice, they have the infastructure to make a good pvp game, which would result in revenue.

they could maintain the current not good pvp game and earn little revenue from it. that would be a waste of potential. (the engine, graphics, etc are the major investment of game development. The work that remains to turn gw2 pvp into something popular amongst gamers represents a very minimal investment of development resources.)

so, we ask, essentially, for a new game built on all that. hopefully someone in anet has the courage to admit / call out the current pvp for what it is (popular with too small of a community to sell expansions) and they opt to promote new ideas or talent which will push development of new pvp content.

Deimos Tel Arin.7391:

ryston.7640:

we want downed state to be removed because it isnt as fun as the devs think it is.

perhaps you are just the minority group here.
the ones who are having fun is playing the game it is meant to be played.

sorry, posted on accident then edited. silly android touch screen

Ostricheggs.3742:

I am sorry but a lot of the problems that you list in your post are almost non-existent as problems in game to a player who has played for more than a month.

Particularly striking is the fact that you complain about LoS and centering your character with your mouse and how it detracts from your ability to use your other hand to hit keybinds. That is a non-issue like none other.

Then, under the same post, you complain about how easy it is to dodge abilities (dodging weapon abilities are a different story) and how melee has a huge advantage with gap closers (see: Warriors).

Simply put your diagnoses of why this game has been unsuccessful thus far is incredibly incorrect. It goes hand in hand with the above poster complaining about conquest and downed state. A very large majority of problems that have plagued this game and prevented PvP from taking off have been fixed which is why you’re seeing people come back and tournaments pop up.

I think your criticisms of the OP are fair but your conclusion hasty.

the frequency of gap closers (and openers) still undermines ‘lines of engagement’ and eliminates the chess like feel the OP refered to origionally.

also, while several of us dont have the level of difficulty dealing with clutter that the OP seems to, sorting through clutter isnt an especially fun part of the game. I think mesmer illusions were ill conceived in the pvp setting and suggest an alternate class mechanic, interupts, be available in pvp.

finally about those interupts and cast bars, it’s also quite true that this game lacks in that department, except stomping, which has other issues.

so, while your nitpicks are accurate, i support the OP

i want downed state removed because it isnt actually fun,

im not saying that cause of some 1v1. i mean all situations, ever. team fight 5v5.

downed state is the theoredical replacement for stuff like healing. it lets teams make an effort to defend a player who gets focus fired. in theory this adds fun and depth of strategy. also, it adds watchable plays as the audience can anticipate the stomp or interupt on the edge of their seat.

all that being said for it on paper convinced me to give it an honest and thorough play test, afterwhich i concluded that the mechanic just wasnt fun.

lots of the community did the same, and offered anet constructive feedback about how to repair, replace, or remove it.

anet made the decision that they would maintain and even strengthen downed states.

most of the pvp community anet had at launch has subsequently quit the game over a myraid of issues, though downed state is likely a component of many of their decisions.

much of the remaining community doesnt seem to mind the downed state and perhaps even have learned to enjoy it.

in conclusion, asking to remove downed state is more of a reminder to the decision making team that their judgement can sometimes be flawed, and that they should appreciate well articulated player feedback when its offered. sort of a reminder that we told them so, therfore perhaps they should listen next time.

if i had to give a specific hope for myself and i think for others: a desired result of our requests to remove downed state, I would say:

A new type of PvP challange, without downed states, and other gameplay revisions (likelya complete redetailing of weapon and utility skills, as well as traits and some changes to animations) essentially a mod.

I don’t think we dislike the engine or beautiful scenery offered by guild wars 2, its the gameplay and character attribute system that’s deeply flawed and unfun to the majority og gw2’s initial pvp community.

i did think the dev understanding of the meta was commical.

i wasnt surprised the devs lost, as they spend less time practicing the game. it shouldnt surprise us.

i was surprised the devs won some, to me that demonstrates that the better, more practiced team can sometimes lose to concentrated zerg (pun intended). im not opposed to cheese taking a competitive game now and then, such as slings, but I do wonder if perhaps this time it illustrates a lack of depth in the game.

booring gameplay ruined pvp.

lack of basic infastructure like rank, the fooling around with paid tournaments, and spectator mode ruined the already ruined pvp’s community.

all around, anet didnt spend enough resources on pvp for it to be a success

posting on the guild wars 2 forum is, in it’s self, embarassing and stupid.

go ahead and list the times anet has implemented changes discussed on this forum.

our feedback is clearly appreciated.

lol see? gw2 is worried about the poster before me. thats their target audience, he only plays necro, because it reflects the twisted darkness of his soul.

excellent idea, but you have a flaw.

GW2 dev team seems to envision a game where people bring their role playing character into pvp, where they continue to identify with and take pride in their character.

now you and I may know that most higher end players are open to playing multiple classes, and attatch themselves to individual characters for branding as much as ego, but the devs… they seem to ignore this fact whenever possible. instead izzy mains a warrior and iway goes unfixed for a couple years.

Tyler Chapman.1832:

Thanks for the reports, we have verified that there are indeed some issues with shadowsteps right now. We are working on a fix that will be out as soon as we are comfortable with it QA wise.

See, the reason that’s funny, is that if QA testing was a big thing for you the first time around…

lol well then the game would have done like diabl. And just not launched withPvP, who am I kidding?p3

it is free for me to play, and iI do so only out of spite. It’s a masochistic ritual.

to have fun, iI play other games, that are fun.

free to play iisn’t cheap enough.

Sounds necro by lore.

by mechanic idk

imo mesmer should lose illusions and get interrupt f1-4 buttons.

f1 interrupts targets action and deals damage
f2 … and drains endurance
f3… and copies interrupted skill in its place for a single use.
f4… and puts the skill on an extended cool down.

way more mesmer like than clutter illusions

Lol ppl have been crying for no downed state since beta.

devs don’t want to hear it.

[quote=2202852;Defyx.3956:]

Evades made combat noob friendly like teleports made positioning new friendly like arena net made guild wars. New friendly.

Flowerpower.6795:

It’s just stupid that you can’t see for example moa. I want to dodge it. It would still not be easy because the dodge needs to be timed well and you need to target the right one. You don’t see this skill if you target a warrior, phantasm, clone near the mesmer. And the mesmer can still go invisible before casting moa morph.
Next thing is that i want to interrupt the heal of my foe. At the moment its just luck and btw those mesmer interruption traits are a joke. You dont see what your opponent is doing.. you just interrupt randomly. Thats boring!
So please give us those cast bars!

ya imagine if the game had cast bars and the mesmer primary attribute was f1,2,3… interupts with different effects. like steal, long cool down, damage, exhaustion (stamina drain)…

but illusions are cool too.

I’m not going to exclude non high end pvp gw1 players in my ‘people i listen to’ list.

a lot of people had some honest criticisms of gw1 and i didnt expect a clone (though for those of us that were in the high tiers it had a lot to offer).

what i DO want is something fun and sort of gw1-ish.

they can have dodging, no mana, stomping… but keep the ‘deck building’ feel and make mesmer mechanic something fun… the interupts perhaps, one steals the ability it interupted, one spikes for damage, one puts it on extended cool down. can you imaginea fun reactionary class like that instead of one that clutters the screen like the illusion garbage we have?

there’s not even bloody body blocking! such a huge part of guild wars 1!

i agree gw1 was hard for the uninitiated to watch, and if you didnt know the right people participating in our pvp was honerous. but they threw the baby out with the bathwater. these issues could have been addressed in an evolution of the game, they didnt have to make a brand new one and avoid any resemblance to its predecessor like it was diseased.

i really think gw1 suffered from the developers lack of humility and need to prove their individual genius. i suspect there was someone involved in guild wars 1, who nobody listened to back then, who is finally being listened to now — and that someone has poor judgement, and deep down they fear this because theyve heard it all their life — and theyre trying to prove dad wrong now but the truth is that anet was right not to pay any attention to them the first time and now theyve gone and ruined guild wars 2.

I agree, the thief is a broken sad class and should just be removed.

much like this thread that whines about moderator action, which is against the rules.

Ya I actually gave gw2 a really honest go. defended stomping to my friends saying that it would make the game easier for outsiders to spectate as compared to a prot monk system.

really, i was downright optomistic. but about 3 months after launch i just stopped being able to say it would get better. i was plainly licking at a kitten on a stick waiting for the taste of kitten to give way and reward me with something sweet… and we knew it was kitten the whole way through.

i dont need a gw1 clone, but gw1 did a lot of stuff right and gw2 copied none of that. they could have taken notes about what worked well and didnt and then redone what failed in gw1, instead they just started from scratch, like they were trying to prove they could have their own good ideas.

i almost feel like georgle lucas was involved somehow, thats how terribly dissapointing this sequel is to me.

GvG is spvp and not wvwvw because: Guild Wars. Lore.

Gosh those nostalgic guys feel validated when the game has almost no server population.

Ever get the feeling gw2 is trying so hard to be different from gw1 that they’ve cut off their nose to spite their face. Its almost bon villian-esque how they have so many good gw1 features that they stubbornly refuse to use.

heres to them getting over their need to be unique flowers and prove their creative genius… and just giving us a game that doesnt suck.

Cast bars worked well in guild wars 1.

this is guild wars 2, totally different game (picture twix factory).

we dont do things in gw2 that worked well in gw1

Yup.

The game is designed around PvE that’s kitten easy, then PvP was sort of just thrown in

I think Guild Wars Prophecies was an accident, and anet has slowly been eroding the PvP scene since factions -

gw2 was a leap forward in ruining pvp

you saw a monkey write shakespear by banging on a typewritter and youre now demanding an encore.

these arent creative geniuses, if those were ever at anet they left and/or arent listened to at the table anymore because some idiot gained clout and now his bad judgement calls the shots.

Up izzys bum is where its at

They don’t need resilience, they need to start over.