Guild Wars 2

Lul, ya… i I came from guildguild wars. And joined for the amazing esport AAA PvP.

then the game launched with several traits not really appropriate, couldn’t quite que with a friend, tons of bugs, no spectate or leader… but the mists were well done so I was opomistic

looks like they’ ve made no real pprogress since

So, back since beta, there’s been this thing… where you can steal / cloak dagger and it’ll. Shot a lot of players, conveniently most of which can be identified by a little up arrow after their name. Since the game delays rendering of a thief, you can do this in the middle of the enemy zerg, and stomp them, and still getou. Which is loads of fun and completely unbalanced in every conceivable way.

that still going on?

k anet lied when they said quality pvp. it was false advertising. youre thinking about how to fix this and they … arent, and dont care. they has your monies.

rofl, what do we want the esport to be? LOL!

Yes, I too wish that a seperate set of developers (ones who weren’t bad at their jobs) were responsible for designing PvP content.

Ya man they promised a PvP game … half a year ago? They still haven’t made a serious effort to deliver… so you’re probaby not going to get anything.

I mean it was like 3 months unil you could join 8v8 with a friend, and their attempt to make queing 5v5 with a partial stack was a dimal failure.

The gameplay is still fuster clucky and the game types uninteresting. The roles are divided into bust, tanks, and slightly less bursty things that kill tanks. Turns out when you take away things like healing and support you sort of limit the teamplay interaction, and when you put in teleports and gap closers you sort of lessen the strategic positioning bits.

Ya remember those promises? The ones that got a bunch of us to buy the game?

Are you ever going to try and make good on those? Maybe go back to the ‘drawing board’ and start from scratch? Spend some of our delicious monies on it?

I could accept it if the game primarily needed balancing tweeks.

What I can’t accept is that it took so long just to be able to que for casual play with a friend.

Or have a spectator mode.

They launched a beta PvP game and then took about 4 months to address some of the basic infastructure needs. They haven’t even touched on the balance yet, which has a long ways to come.

Additionally, I (and a lot of others who have spoken up) think they have unfun gameplay, even if it was balanced better.

The volume of things to be fixed and the rate at which we see progress clearly shows that this game won’t have quality PvP until well over a year after it’s launch. That’s just plain false advertisement. Whoever made the decisions about how to allocate resources should really be deeply ashamed, and there’s probably some egg on the face of the lead PvP developers too — they’ve done a great job of listening to the community and tweeking small things, but when that same community told them about deeper issues they plugged their ears.

This was a bigger dissapointment to me than Diablo 3. I have gone from being a real fan of arenanet since before GW1 beta to thinking it was all just blind luck. Every expansion erroded the quality of the game and now this…

All GW2 had was a good leveling experience and fantastic and origional art and background lore. Even the dialogue and story line were poor, again, despite thorough feedback. PvP is the biggest dissapointment in all of it.

there wasn’t a point. It’s a mistake. Most of their PvP is a mistake.

I’m kinda mad. Anet promised a AAA PvP esport title, and their GW1 Prophecies gameplay showed they might have what it took to deliver.

It’s pretty clear at this point they never intended to. Didn’t even try. I can’t even be mad at you for failing because progress has been so slow I’m very much under the impression there are about 4 guys working on this and they’re given side projects to boot.

I’m mad at whoever in marketing said we should advertise a blatant lie and then not fund it.

because anet knew they could get their GW1 PvP fans to purchase the game based on nostalgia alone… so they didn’t bother developing any number of features for it at launch… and based on the rate of progress, it wasn’t a mistake — their business model was just to rip off the people who wanted PvP.

it’s pretty obvious by now that PvP is not and never was a priority for anet. When they said they hope to be a AAA esport, it was false advertisement.

see the problem with anet… and guildwars 2… is that they listened to threads like this, instead of threads that gave constructive criticism.

They wrote their game for the players who play for a few months to level, instead of for players that play endgame content, like good dungeons, or pvp, which this game lacks. (the dungeons will get there with polish, but the prioritizing still shows.)

Warriors are perhaps the most (only?) Polished class. Also, gap closers make for bad game play, and warrior shouldnt have any. They can have sprints, but teleporty gap closers no. (Pretty much just guardian and maybe ele should.)

Ya those were all there in guildwars 1, so we sort of took them for granted.

Like matchmaking, or spectating… sort of basic infastructure type stuff.

The problem is that they didnt deliver on all of the basics, and the gameplay isnt even all that fun. Plus, even if it were decent, they changed genres and didnt announce it. Gw2 will never be a deck builders strategy / team coordination game.

So basically anets lead developers are skritt kissers. (Good job to the environmental people though, the game is pretty… and the lore is interesting. Your gameplay is just uninteresting and your pvp is the worst of this.)

Because anet cares about tpvp like the pope cares about the karma sutra.

If you type’deck builder mmo’ into google, you’ll see some talk about games that deliver on what gw2 lacks.

Maybe they could look at those not specifically named games for inspiration, get an idea of what all their gw1 fans wish they had done in the first place.

Also traits. They gotta go. They dont’ add depth or build variety, they take it away. You could design weapons that are well balanced with a classes roles, but you mess it up with traits that were developed for PvE and PvP as an afterthought.

Someday maybe you can tie weaponst o trait lines and define them as defensive or offensive weapons because of that… but ultimately I think we should just not use them in PvP.

After the dev team finishes the basic pvp infastructure they should have had at launch but were actually several months, perhaps even a year away from being able to put in…

can they just start over on designing GW2 PvP? Because I don’t think any number of balance fixes and tweeks are going to make this fun. They can call it a new game type if they want and keep this kitten loving old one too…

idk something like…

1) Auto attacks stack a mile condition, say a 1% cripple, or a vulnerability. These are easy to hit the target with and slowly buildup to put them into a vulnerable position.
2) Some attacks do moderate damage or control, and have like a .75 second wind up or animation time, or a slow travel time. Possibly aimed with one of those ground arrows so there’s some skill involved when ranged.
3) Some attacks do even more damage and have like a 1.5 second wind up.
4) Some are defensive and are either instant or .6 second casts… so that they can respond to the two attack types appropriately. So a player can be given multiple evasions but not be immune to getting hit by some of the harder attacks, because some of those actually have cast times and stuff.

You could like, remove switfness, and lower base movement speed so the game was a little more ‘think fast chess like’ and less ‘wtf is happening in that team fight full of particle effects?’

You could make the maps so that just holding at the 1/2 way point weakens your fighting potential somehow, by making a relic that spawns there get run back to base for points, or something. This gives greater rebound potential.

You could use a different concept for thief, like…

The Thief class has average mobility, higher than moderate damage and significant dissable as well as a stealth mechanic. This allows the thief to threaten an area, forcing the enemy team to withdraw aggressive positions or retreat out of fear for where the thief might be when it stealths. This description avoids the Thief from stopping other classes from being good at what they are supposed to do, while still giving it a unique and distinct role centered around it’s class mechanic, stealth. By the way, about steal… it’s a gap closer.

Lets talk about gap closers. They don’t encourage tactical game play, they increase the threat area and escape potential of everyone enormously and allow you to not pay attention to your surroundings and play sloppy. They’re a bad concept. I know anime shows make teleporting swordsman and ninja’s look cool, but it doesn’t make for fun gameplay. So stop putting them into games when they dont’ belong there.

I’m not saying teleport shouldn’t exist, I’m sayign it should be rare and it should be appreciated for the amazing power that it is. Being able to move like that is huge, and it seems like developers just give it to you as if giving it to everyone makes it balanced… that’s … bad. undo that.

the necromancer could have like, a unique concept too. It could be given the ability to micro it’s minions position, so it could use minions to body block and absorb attacks and stuff. The minions could have one of those weak condition stacking auto attacks so they represented potential threat and then you could give the necromancer it’s self a bunch of cumbersome heavy hitting moves but very few agile and versitile ones. This makes the Necromancer a class that can be defeated by a patient foe but who will lose to anyone who acts recklessly. In a team fight he becomes relevant again because other people dissable / distract targets that are about to get clobered, or because of his micro.

You could give the guardian more dissables. Like theirs could be that 1% cripple. It’s used to punish enemy melee for acting aggressively and prevent them from making the tactical retreat they will need to. See this is a class you could put a small teleport on and have it be okay, in fact short sword + shield is just about perfect, if you change the auto attack to a 1% cripple stacker instead of a damage output.

Basically the theme I’m getting at here… is that nobody should use their auto attack as a mainstay of damage. It should always be there to comrpomise the opponent and slowly force them to burn a condition removal or something. You want all of the hits that matter to be telegraphed and dodgeable. This creates a sense of suspense as you’re watching and playing the game, and prevents information overload.

Anet gave us descriptions of the roles they see classes filling (in pvp ish).
This should impact how everyone discusses balance. All of your arguments should be based on how a specific thing does or does not uphold that manifesto, or it could propose changes to said manifesto if your ambitious (be aware thats a pretty big suggestion)

Anet also showed us some uw changes that maybe hint their ‘mobile team’ (i forget the naming used) was working on that. It almost definitely wasnt their pvp team, so calm down about it. We can ask nicely that after the holidays the mobile team move to working on the pvp infastructure so the pvp team can make our gameplay not bad. We dont really know if that request is reasonable though since the mobile team might be 2 programmers and 3 environmental artists. We just dont know. Maybe anet is ramping up to unveil some big uw content and they arent willing to redirect their pve team to work on something else until the pvp gets fixed. Then we can whine and hope we are listened to.

Anyhow, its clear that arenanet intends to fix their game… so bunker down and help slug out a year of beta in hopes that a good pr campaign can breathe life into this failed launch. Or dont. Im actually considering it now, which… is pretty sad. I still want an apology for the early launch.

Op is wrong. Build locking is a good thing.

Some build side decking might be good, but that can be added later on, after weve played with the lockout for a while

Anet has a long way to go before they make underwater combat fun and i think they know that.

One of the two declarations in that sentence was written by a kitten troll, can you guess witch?

Yea forcing us to play the alpha status underwater combat would be like stabbing this game in the back of the neck for the 23rd time. Im not sure its fair to say such a decision would kill anything… but I cant see any good comming of it.

Good. The change is good.

But i think you can still swap characters by logging out and back in. Thats… well at least anet is consistent. Maybe by winter 2014 gw2 will be released.

Football can be about gaining a small advantage and running out the clock. It has lots of viewers.

The issue is in the lack of come-from-behind potential… but im not convinced this game lacks that. I dont have a team and even if i did id be farming free tournies to afford the paid tournies we usually lost.

I will say this game has less come from behind potential than any other spectated games which come to mind, but there might be enough to make it interesting.

I wouldnt know, i havent had the chance to spectate any games, because anet launched without a spectator mode, then made it illegal to monitize videos of their gameplay, so all teams worth watching quit. …

Someone at anet is a poop face, and i dont know who, but they smell awful

I guess we live in an age where large companies typically admit fault and hustle to make things right, even if it means taking a small loss because maintaining the company name (and doing right by the fans) is more important.

Instead were seeing too few promises about how they’ll add the features it was glaringly missing 1/2 a year or more later. With no apOgy, no hustle to do right, and still leaving many complaints unaddressed even in promise let alone deed.

All this after what, 10 years?

This is george lucas status right here. Even the crystal skull was a less awful sequel. Im not talking about some dissapointed hardcore fan. Anet should run for congress.

At least blizzard had the decency to admit fault and appologize, allbeit they fed up worse at launch.

I don’t have the time to participate in paid tPvP so im asking those that do:

Have we seen any creative team builds gain traction yet?

Any janky combinations of weapons and skill sets that created a new and unique approach to defeating your enemy?

Like, can you hear that a good team is running ladder with a solid healing testicle and have your team roll ranger interupt or mesmer drain to snipe them?

Or even say some small team variances, like in GvG where you could swap an emo runner for a cs ranger if you knew the enemy was using a heal monk instead of double boon prot. Or use 3 warriors if you thought youd play a team whos positioning was sometimes poor. O
rOr a hex necro if you were facing a 3 war build like war machine always ran.
Or is the game still… a care bear pve game with pvp modes thrown in as an after thought but hyped as a aaa esport material predecessor to gw1?

I dont mind having skills that give evasion when imobilized initiative might be a bit broken of a mechanic with such skills, but i dont play thief enough to really say so

Riselight.3695:

Maybe you could offer players a class change scroll, so I could become one of this two OP classes as well

This will sound harsh but…

Its people like this, who want to role play their pvp characters, that really baffle me, and the concessions anet makes to them are just… gah

Its not that we want new game modes exactly.

We want game modes that carry the spirit of guildwars. Because thats why we bought the game. Which, it turns out, is completely devoid of anything related to guildwars.

1) anet cant even balance the system they have now to… really anyones satisfaction.
2) i think they wanted people to rp their pvp characters?

I hear your argument, and it resounds with me.

I also think this game will need a marketing campaign and a come back in a year or two when its fixed. That campaign will be more successful if its p

And here we go again

When anybody can ruin the day of a balanced build by rolling trash like this, the pub meta gets reduced to trash like this vs bunkers.

Are there better more balanced solutions? Yea, i only ever lost to IWAY once, but it still got ran a kitten ton in tombs because it was easy to get wins with.

Cheese like this should be nerfed out of the game

Blatant bump, i posted this in wrong forum, so i assume no mod has seen it yet since it hasnt been moved. See what i did there? With the door, and the string…

Lol @ ppl trying to compare thief to ele cause of this.

They both burst too kittening hard. No need to compare rtl out with stealth out, just fix both.

It still has issues, but theyre slowly being adressed.

Gw2, like diablo 3, is too good to have PvP finished by launch.

Meh, theres a laundry list of things to fix before gw2 pvp is ready. Does it really matter what order theyre done in? The game was a let down, it died, they’ll either fix everything and then dump money into getting it streamed to cause a come back, or they’ll cut staff to minimal levels so they dont waste too much more money on this investment and move on.

If a, come back when others do, game will suck until then anyway
If b, be glad you moved on

I do see theyre hiring more people, so it looks like theyre maybe giving a a go

I don’t think anet is evil enough to intend on sucking money out of people for paid tournaments.

For one, the revenue from this probably isnt very high compared to the lost expansion sales due to people having a poor pvp experience.

For two, anet was a pioneer in the no subscription mmo model. Before a cash shop for cosmetics even, this company was dedicated to making games affordable and available. I wonder sometimes how many of the prominent voices behind gw1 are still on the team, but this ethic seems to still be running strong.

Uh… the gameplay isnt that fun, you can do half that stuff, and id rather have fun gameplay than stat tracking… so i disagree, but k.

Pet buttons (necro, ranger, whatever) will now toggle between the summon and command option. Pressing the command option will swap the 5 weapon skills for command skills such as’move to ground target location’’attack selected target’ etc. After a single command is issued he weapons skill bar will be restored.

Skills such as earth attunements staff 5, or air attunements staff 3, will now use a targeting system similar to blade trail. This will increase the demand for player skill on both ends while reducing beginner frustration with character directionality.

These are not changes specific to pvp, and so the tasks can be pushed onto other teams, allowing the pvp team to continue focusing on key esport features like spectator mode: whilst still improving the pvp experience.

I dont support 1v1 match making, as the balancing decisions that may come from it would negatively impact what i think ought to be a team oordination game.

I grudgingly accept that 2v2 may be viable practice for the kinds of skirmishes players will often find themselves faced with in the detestable 5v5 capture and hold game mode.

@ dc complaints… yea error7 is a pretty classic gw problem so im not going to give you my shoulder to cry on about those

I did hear from a high tier player (they quit before qp) that the rez timers were a likely part of why games in gw2 tended to snowball. Perhaps anet was responding to such concerns?

Comming from a high tier gw1 prophecies player, i can say that timing stomps for spawn waves seemed pretty natural, though why the spawn cycle was such a kitten number beats me.

I am only interested in the esport quality PvP, the other aspects of the game do not interest me.

This is not the spiritual successor to GW1. Nowhere has this been acknowledged, nowhere is there the hope that you will someday release a game mode that brings us back to the build variety and creative opportunity of GW1.

You replaced delicate positioning decisions with the downed state and HUGE gap closers on short cool downs on one game mode that discourages such concepts.

You replaced a the funnest rpg healing system to date with your desire to be unique flowers on the mountain meadow.

You replaced deck building with a handful of viable builds for each class with very small variations in preference. This is the most offensive to me, the fact that you in no way captured what made GW1 fun but yet had the audacity to call this game GW2.

Then you launched the game when PvP was far from ready, showing that all your measuring markers were found in PvE instead of PvP.

Go Kitten your kittening kittens.

… though the kitten thing is cute. (I actually typed kitten.)

Even if all you did was admit in some overt way to these awful blunders and say change was comming, but you haven’t. You’ve admitted to the obvious ones, no ladder, no observer mode… but you haven’t come out and said "We Launched based primarily on our PvE? readiness and overestimated the preparedness of our PvP system. So were assigning our special projects team to design a new PvP game mode more reflective of classic Guild Wars 1 style play — meanwhile the base PvP team will be developing some of the fundamental tools and infrastructure needed to have a vibrant PvP experience.

Uhm, so the duration of the combo field would need to be kept to a very short timer right after placement, on an appropriately long cool down.

Aside from this I think it sounds fine.

Well…

I guess we can speculate why all we want (low budget, launched too soon for this department, low talent, doesnt listen to community, plays thief and guardian only, whatever) … we will never know.

So can we stop guessing?

Yea the pvp is trash can, they messed up and the fixes are coming slower than aids. But they’re coming.

… yea fine i’d like to yell profanities at someone too, i just don’t know who.

Sam Pan.3651:

Well some people are just a little upset about their $60 investment. Not to mention that many people wanted to play a game that was a spiritual successor to Guild Wars 1 in game mechanics not only in lore.

Ya… ya thats me.

I’ve stuck up for these a little bit here and there, 1/2 heartedly.

I just found one in a game willing to do some testing with me, and they are actually pretty ridiculous.

I’m not sure if they’re balanced in the grand scheme of things for 5v5, but they definately aren’t WELL balanced. Just because something has a counter doesn’t mean it doesn’t ruin a lot of other builds on other classes that would have been nice to play, but that you now can’t because they get killed too fast.

The only amulet options for most classes against this are Clerics, Soldier, or Shamans.

Why did Ranger Great Sword and Spirits both get nerfed into useless puddles of bad almost immediately yet this has gone on for so long?

So to explain: pokemon was a fictional setting expressed through several entertainment mediums, one of which was a portable videogame.

In this portable video game one builds a team of 6 pokemon with different attributes and 4 different abilities. They have a turn based battle, typically 1v1 at a time (1 player fielding 1 pokemon at 1 time vs another)

Thanks to a diverse set of attack and resistance/vulnerability types this game was able to develop some decently interesting tactical options.

The game was, however, primarily a single player role playing experience, with pvp being an important and well featured end game.

By adding a fundamentally similar system you can add a sort of ‘deck building’ flavored fun that a lot of us gw1 fans are extremely dissapointed gw2 lacks.

It was already mentioned as one possible mini game, and i understand mop has included it.

Finally, by making these battle monsters difficult to attain or tied to acheivements, anet can create a sort of item progression which some players find extremely addicting