Guild Wars 2

Replacing the Monk with downed state…

Was sort of like taking the Goalee out of Soccer, but saying that it was OK because now anybody can use their hands as long as they’re inside the Goal box.

Exaserbated by the fact that handing out teleports like candy sort of meant all positions were allowed to roam anywhere on the field.

I know, I know: it wasn’t just downed state replacing the Monk. Brief Invis or Invul mechanics were meant to replace good spike reactions and so forth. But letting every person do that for themselves is really the opposite of team-work. It’s NOT trusting your allies and sticking to your role (casting an important spell even though you can see the final thrust combo comming.) Because you trust.

Of all the really dubious decisions that anet made despite the ferverent protests of their fans and testers… removing the GW1 Monk seems singularly important to me.

When we saw devs promising to balance skills independantly, because they recognized the potential importance — we should have also see them taking away the Monk from PvP because of the wants of people in PvE and known then what was to come.

shakes head

Hey anet: you told your PvP fans they would have a home in GW2, but I don’t see one. Build it?

disclaimer: I’m not a big fan of how anet handled gw2 PvP from a gameplay/design perspective. But I really appreciate the candor of this response.

Evan Lesh.3295:

Test Servers: These are hard to do at the moment, and not something we will support for now. It takes a lot of manpower to manage another live environment and iteration on features in that environment takes a lot of extra lead time.

ok.

Skyhammer: Obligatory “Nothing is off the table”. (except deleting skyhammer)

I would really like to know why deletion if off the table, but I can appreciate that sharing your thoughts on that matter would be unprofessional and could have negative concequences for your career. Still… I wonder aloud why it is that sometimes anet just insists on sticking by deeply unpopular decisions.[/quote]

Communication emotes: I really want this and think it’d help coordination a lot. I enjoy this feature in games like Dota2 and HoN. The problem I run into when thinking about this is how to make the feature approachable for all game modes without requiring 50 different voice emotes. This could be solved with generic lines, or automatic clarifications (like Dota2’s missing call know what lane you’re in). Feedback on this feature alone in a new thread would be awesome.

Okay a test server is a serious $ sink… are you stating 50 different voice emotes is out of the budget or are you saying it would clutter the screen (while then acknowledging the obvious, practical, and not so difficult solution to that problem.)?

Leavers: We’ve been collecting data and are discussing if there are better ways to apply dishonor.

That sounds completely legit.

AFK Check: This comes up a lot, and we’ve discussed it plenty. Rest assured we understand this problem and have discussed ways to solve it.

What…. exactly was the discussion? No honestly what was the counter proposal to an AFK check?

Pause feature: Implementing this in an MMO makes my head hurt just thinking about it. I honestly see no way to do this without a significant rework to most systems in our game unless we implement a pseudo-pause.

Okay, I can acknowledge that it’s probably way too late in development to implement a true pause. Some formal addressing of this issue would be nice but I get that discussions need to happen with realistic expectations. I’ll stop calling for it. Thanks for the share.

Match history: Yes.

Voice Communication: I wouldn’t mind this, but I’m unaware of what the rest of the company thinks about this one.

Build Templates: Drool.

Evan Lesh.3295:

Split skills:
Passive Skills:
Balance Patches:
Balance peeps could answer these.

In development, it was stated that we would have split skills. I can’t seem to find the video… but I know it was there. Is there ever going to be an acknowledge that all of the pre-release videos discussing PvP were pretty much full of broken promises like this?

Disclaimer: I make no feature promises.

Poetry

Because anet needed to inovate and prove the kids who run it now are smart. So they couldn’t use what worked before or accept beta player feedback.

But kids weren’t smart, because good things happen when you take the best ideas from the many.

So now game is no good, and has no good things that all the players wanted.

It is sad, I think maybe George Lucas works for anet.

Kid at anet wanted to prove he was smart and could make game good without copying what worked for others, or listening to input from others.

But kid wasn’t smart, because letting others help is how one makes good, and kid should have known.

So now game bad.

The games entire balance is kittening trashcan anyways. You can make it 8v8 and put a flag there to run, but the reality is

1) No healers or fun support structure
2) Conditions/Hexes and their removal is no longer a decision making process but rather a spam one
3) Over abundance of gap closers make decisions about positioning meaningless.

A) Because there’s no good support, and positioning is fairly trivial, there’s really no such thing as ‘over extending.
B) Because A, there’s really no such thing as diving

Alpha) Because 1,2,3,A,B the more players you have the more effective it is to just train a single enemy until they disengage or down.

Rally) Because Rally, the best defense is actually to just train an enemy and get the stomp.

The bigger you get the game the more true this sequence of events becomes true.

Fundamentally, GW2 was designed to be kittenty and not fun with significantly large team sizes.

It’s best as a 2v2 or 3v3, which is the game size we see most actual combat taking place at in Conquest.

…

It sounds like I’m supporting the Devs decision to exclusively support Conquest, but actually I’m saying they made a kittenty unfun game and they should probably start over from square one and fix it.

Talyn Sneider.1825:

…

Well I know you guys in ANET are smart and good professionals, so I thought why haven’t you done this before? the answer came to me rather easily, the balancing is heavily tied to your one pvp game mode. And since you guys are professionals

I’m really impressed by the detail work in this game, art, music, environment, lore, story writing. Those are some smart professionals doing that work!

But gameplay is terrible, in PvE and PvP. PvP was advertised as esport then launched w/o Spectator, Ladder, Pause, Ready Check, Report AFK. Whomever was responsible for making it fun was mostly just kittening bad at their job.

, you won’t release another game mode until you know balancing is at an acceptable level…that takes time and resources and poses one very difficult challenge…how to make builds that are balanced in a conquest game totally balanced in a duel scenario…because we know that they aren’t at this moment.

I propose to change the way we look at pvp:

1) Admit that only a few builds are viable for each class
2) Admit there are roles for each game mode
3) Change the way conquest works to a 5 vs 5 with a set team composition:

ex:

[
Not much of an admission is it? Just look at the longbow vs the shortbow if you want obvious evidence that balancing all builds as viable in sPvP was never a serious goal at all.

Now about the adding of new pvp modes:

Simply put…create new weapon skills and traits for each game mode, this would feel to us as a breath of fresh air, and to you would reduce the difficulty of having to balance conquer mode taking into account dueling for example.

Would this be confusing to players? so many traits and builds and different weapon choices? well if you don’t improve some quality of life issues…yes…specifically the build templates. But if you give us that tool you know we players will prove to not only be smart enough to not be confused and to help you design meta builds for each game mode. That way I believe you may go to your goal of an e-sport.

Comments and counter arguments are welcome, and i truly and humbly hope this helps you guys.

Excelsior

Dude they didn’t invest in developing PvP the first time, why would they do it the second time after their playerbase has all given them the finger and left?

You’re right though, inorder to make it fun they’d pretty much have to start over from the beginning and introduce new stuff, ban the old stuff, and put some thought into it. … because all we have now are gap closers, some spam buttons, and some muscle memory combos to execute…

It all could have been fun if there was just a crosshair to aim with and some slow moving projectiles.

But those aren’t here, and so it’s not fun.

Ya… I think anet owes me a refund and a nice BJ after kittening me and leaving me this unsatisfied.

Clip.6845:

And yet the PvE in this game is severely lacking too imo.

What this game needs is an expansion: New race, new weapons, new zones, new dungeons, new pvp modes and a merger for the lowest tier wvw servers.

Ya the problem is… who would buy something new developed by this studio?

The environmental architecs, musicians, programmers… all get my praise. Whomever was responsible for making gameplay fun, be it PvP or PvE straight up ruined this game.

It’s like you went up to a steaming pile of kitten, picked out a half digested oat and said, “see this is why it’s not safe to eat kitten. This oat has bacteria growing on it and is already half eaten.”

So… you’re not… wrong? But…

Oh also areananet was just plain lying and never spent that much money on PvP. As evidenced by the absence of (at launch)

Pause
Spectator Mode
Ladders or Match Making
Seperation of Premade vs Auto Group teams
Etc…

My theory: Hubris

Some kid(s) who wanted to prove they were smart and creative and could make a good game all on their own without input from others.

And so they didn’t do what GW1 had proven worked, because that wouldn’t prove they were uniquely genius.

And they didn’t listen to their community, at all.

And they weren’t actually all that intelligent… so…

The game turned out a steaming pile of puppy.

I do have to say to that fully grown kid, sitting somewhere in anet, sad: Cheerup. One of the greatest minds humanity has ever known, Sir Isaac Newton – once made the commen that, if he saw farther than others – it was only because he sat upon the shoulders of giants. The greatest accomplishments arise because of harnest team effort. Your flaw was not that you weren’t smart enough to envision the perfect game on your own, your flaw was that you didn’t accept the truth of that limitation and work around it – outside of yourself – outside of your own ego.

…

So you ruined our game.

Jekkt.6045:

rumors say that we will be getting a new game mode this patch…
and there is a sentence that caught my eye:

We also looked to the most glorious place of all: the Hall of Heroes from the original Guild Wars. One of the key visuals from the Hall of Heroes is its majestic statues with ornate wings, which we decided to incorporate into our new armor sets.

so arenanet basically went into gw1 to look at stuff… my guess is we won’t get 2v2 3v3 ctf or something but a traditional gw1 game mode. maybe GvG maybe hall of heroes.

Ya or just a statue of dwayna.

Honestly even if they added a GW1 game mode, that game really took a turn for the wtf when they introduced assasins and the ‘teleportation’ mechanics.

Rather than learn from this anet just gave everybody a teleport mechanic and then took away cross-class because building unique strategies wasn’t fun and it was hard for the devs to…

thinking.

nastyjman.8207:

Replays, mang. I think GW2 needs a replay file that can be saved after a match and then shared to anyone who’s interested, something similar to SC2. But I’m thinking that it would be hard to implement.

Gw2 needs a lot of these types of basic kittening if you want to be an esport features.

we launched without a spectate for kittens sake.

kitten anet for lieing to us

IvanTheGrey.2941:

You guys realize that we most likely got Mr. Norfolk either fired, reprimanded, or ensured that his contract would not get renewed for breaking ANet’s “wall of silence”, right? That he more or less confirmed that ANet thinks its customers are complete idiots, right?

We’ll probably never hear from him again. Same thing happened with Hrouda.

I am sorry for Mr. Norfolk that he works for a kittenty company. Truly, that can beroug. Glass door suggests the pay isn’t great either.

The thief concept is that the thief can appear anywhere with teleports, burst anyone down, and get out of anything with stealth.

turns out tthat’s not balanced, so they get some portion of … that. Never the whole thing

It should either be GvG or HoH

then the game should balance for it, which means a significant reduction in the amount of teleports, and a significant increase in the amount of support

So I recognize that those people who remain playing the game to this day (two years later) must obviously like it at least a little. I mean that makes sense right? I’m not looking for a lot of people here who agree GW2 PvP is the absolute puppy I think it is.

But they did lie about all 4 of those things, and they really never have appologized for it. So I’m asking for that apology. I want anet to say:

Look I know the menu said strawberry smoothie and we gave everybody bananna… some people like bananna, but obviously most didn’t… so we’re sorry we said strawberry.

So we are:
a) Giving people strawberry smoothies now
b) Giving people back their money
c) Just saying too bad, but we acknowledge we sort of did some wrong here.

Next: I know that we said smoothie, but the thing was we ran out of ice… so it’s more of a milk and fruit paste goo with a little sugar in it. I know I know we’re sorry… ice is comming, just hand us back your cup and we’ll blend that right in there and it’ll be a nice smoothie. … (ladders, spectator mode, devs that care, pause, afk report, etc.)

So we’re sorry.

They already said they’re comming back with Ice… so that’s like answer b from above, but without the we’re sorry part first.

They collectively kittened up everybody’s order here, I’d like an I’m sorry with a here’s what’s comming next update.

Trevor Boyer.6524:

Skenderbeu.9102:

This has probably been asked 100 times, but why no GvG yet ANet?

I even heard at some point that an ANet employee found 2 guilds doing GvG in the Obsidian Sanctum and told them to stop.

What’s up? It’s called GW for a reason no? :s I am very sad

Haven’t you noticed that WvW is super GvG?
WvW is a GvG on a much larger and grander scale than GW1 GvG ever was
In fact, GW1 GvG wasn’t really very GvG at all, it was simply an 8v8 lord kill match
~ Which we’ve already had on GW2 since day 1 release

WvWvW is too big, and involves seige equipment.

We’d like something sized right at about 8v8.

you know the funny thing is, I have some buddies who used to play GW1 with me.

Everytime we get together someone eventually brings up GW2, and then I find myself back on these forums for a couple weeks. Because it was a bigger let down than Indiana Jones and the Crystal Skull, or Star Wars Episode 1, or Diablo III.

Speaking of D3… they made an apology and then updated.

Just saying, there’s a prescident for what I’m asking for – and a recent one.

I say some mean and hurtful things to the devs sometimes.

I think it’s because I feel like they advertised PvP that was:
1) A sequel to GW1
2) MtG inspired
3) Esport
4) That the devs cared about and would put resources into PvP

I suspect they’ll try to disagree with me about points 3&4… I don’t really agree to disagree, but for the moment I’ll move on.

I’d like an apology for the fact they lied to us about 1&2, and then a statement about what comes next.
a) I take the appology and go move on with my life cause that’s all I get
b) They refund people like me who preordered based on false advertisement
c) They plan to develop that content in the future, it’s probably vapor ware, but stay tuned.

okay moment over:

Look some basics for an esport…. spectator, ladders, pause feature. We waited like a year to get the first two, we’re at two years now and still no third. I don’t think anyone can say with a straight face there were serious plans for this PvP to be an esport.

Couple that with their reniging on the whole “we’ll balance PvP and PvE separately when appropriate” thing…

Ya lets start with an acknowledgement that lies were told about what we were going to be buying.

@ Dev Response

…

Wait so you’re saying that we shouldn’t have amulets to distribute attributes differently in PvP and PvE, because it completely rescales all of the abilities involved?

Oh… wait.

This argument is trash can and you know it. Really really trash can, for so many reasons I would call it a troll if it wasn’t also so long.

I think Twitch statistics show it’s a pretty unsuccessful 2nd year MMO if the goal was, and I paraphrase the Devs, “To have AAA Esport PvP.”

Irresponsible seems a bit of an understament, I think they participated in false advertising. They clearly avoided communicating the fact that they were completely deviating from the established game formula, and even said they were sticking to it as a source of inspiration on occasion.

JonathanSharp.7094:

You guys know how we do it!

“When it’s ready”, indeed.

@ balance and splitting skills: Splitting the entire game into 2 (or 3, if you want to be technical: PvE, WvW, PvP) sets of #‘s creates a LOT of overhead in maintaining 3 sets of numbers. As most skills are fine across game types, it’s more efficient to split off problem skills and leave the majority of skills consistent across game types. It also means that people have a general sense of relative balance across all game types, and don’t have 2-3 sets of numbers to learn.

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Player_versus_Player

Pre-release the word was… that the devs understood it was important to balance PvP seperately and would do so when appropriate.

I link this article not because it black and white states that (it illudes to it) but because of the hillarious quote at the bottom, stating that many GW developers consider themselves hard core PvPers.

Just some laughs.

Look John Sharpe, I feel like I was promised a GW1 Sequel inspired by MtG, balanced just for PvP by a group that appreciated PvP.

We didn’t even have features like spectator, or ladder until the year mark. We still don’t have pause. These are pretty basic – if you want to be an esport – type features…

So I feel like the development team lied to me to get my pre-order monies, and PvP was never actually a priority for you at all. (I also don’t really like the PvP gameplay you made, it definatly wasn’t inspired by GW1 and it absolutely wasn’t inspired by MtG.)

Devs: Can we have GW1 inspired PvP now that this new thing you tried has failed?

Lopez.7369:

Evan Lesh.3295:

Nope, not on autopilot. Nope, not designed by one designer. I Promise features are coming eventually. I want them finished and as badly as you do!

Can you explain what would be so difficult about adding a new reward track with Living Story updates? I mean, that is literally what you guys promised when you added the feature.

How are we supposed to believe that PvP isn’t on autopilot when you guys aren’t doing something you said you would do and described as easy?

It’s cute watching you try and hold them to their word. They also promised they were taking PvP seriously, that it would be an esport, that it would be an “AAA PvP experience”. They said build selection was inspired by magic the gathering.

2 years later and we still don’t have stuff like ‘report afk’ or ‘pause match’ features. Hell it took them a year to put in a match making system and a spectating mode.

Nowhere in this entire bucket of crazy have they really listened to their player feedback or made a visible effort to keep their promises.

But you think you’re going to point out that they said…

it’s just cute.

It’s like the girl who says “but he said he wants to leave his wife.”

That’s the level of lied to we’re at here. Anet is not going to invest in PvP, they give no kittens – and even if they did invest in PvP, there’s clearly somebody at the top who thinks he knows it all and doesn’t need player feedback. Who’s deathly affraid of just doing what works for other games because then the world couldn’t see his creative genius expressed.

Evan Lesh.3295:

Nope, not on autopilot. Nope, not designed by one designer. I Promise features are coming eventually. I want them finished and as badly as you do!

So a pause feature for tournaments and a report afk feature… you know, basics if this game wanted to be taken seriously as an esport… are comming… when? On the 2 year anniversary?

Evan your company straight the kitten up lied to it’s fans when it said they were taking PvP seriously and wanted this to be an esport. I preordered based on those lies and trust in a company that made a great esport game.

We’re mad. Not just because they swindled us out of kitten, but because we were really looking forward to a Guild Wars sequel. What we got was… nothing like the origional, and honestly nothing all that good at anything.

If you wanted to be a twitch game you probably should have put in a crosshair, but if that wasnt’ in the cards you could at least make auto attacks minor and larger hits more telegraphed so the dodge mechanic would be played up as more relevant.

These and a lot of other really basic non contentious suggestions have just… been ignored or put off forever.

Archaon.9524:

PvP already is more than conquest…we have a nice golf minigame on skyhammer…too bad noone actually asked for it…well noone wants it to be more precise

Ok i know this post is gonna end into the neverending skyhammer topic (Also called “we don’t give a kitten bout player’s feedback but we can’t delete all your posts with no reason”) in couple of hours

I actually am starting to feel bad. All the hate on this forum has probably caused somebody a nervous breakdown and it probably wasn’t the kitten who thought he knew everything. That guy probably has some motif like: “don’t read the forums those people are trash anyways.”

So it’s just some guy who actually cares, but his boss will never support an idea that wasn’t his own.

anet invests in PvP like minecraft invests in it’s graphics engine.

Why do we keep asking for new things from like, two underpaid …

Anet invests in it’s PvP like minecraft invested in it’s graphics. I know that’s not what they said when they were in development, but it’s what they actually did.

It took a year for them to put in spectator, ladders, rankings… basics of esport PvP for this AAA esport PvP title. Most would argue the thing you’re asking for is yet another basic that should have probably been present at launch… so I’m going to say give them till the 3 year mark.

it took them a year to put up ladders, ranking and spectating mode that were still beta-esque… im pretty sure their PvP department funding hasn’t exactly increased since then.

Remember when they posted their internal team structure? It clearly showed they had two individuals dedicated to making PvP maps. It should be pretty obvious those two got repurposed some time ago – and I’m guessing there have been other small changes away from the continued support of PvP that were less obvious.

Face it Kid, when anet said they were investing in their PvP, and this would be a AAA Esport… they lied.

Anet doesn’t spend money developing PvP content, and they have a super genius who forsaw that Conquest Only was going to be a AAA Esport – so all the player feedback suggesting it wasn’t fun and we should try something else is rubish. Stop wasting everyones time, clearly we (the world) just aren’t ready for the creative genius that exists at arena net.

warriorjrd.8695:

The GvG scene has definitely dropped since it started, but it’s still alive, and one could say it actually competes with game modes anet supports and advertises. For ex: two big GvGs between the kings of EU and NA racked up nearly 1400 viewers on a stream, and that was unadvertised. A PvE tournament, which was advertised on the forum page by Anet, barely exceeded that if at all, in viewers. And PvE is supposed to be the most popular game mode… makes you think eh? Now i’m not saying GvG is or ever was the most popular thing to do in GW2, but what I am saying, is that even without anet’s support it can compete with things that anet advertises and pushes. Just imagine the GvG scene if anet actually supported it. I’m willing to bet that if anet actually focused on GvG and supported it, it could very well have been the most popular competitive game mode and the closest thing GW2 would ever get to an “esport”.

GvG was popular in Guild Wars 1.

If the creative geniuses that made GW2 had just followed in the footsteps of the people who made Guild Wars 1, how would we know what savants they are? Obviously they’re too good to copy anything from anyone, or take any suggestion from their community. Because they’ve avoided doing either of those things as much as humanly possible.

Unfortunately some of the greatest achievements are accomplished not by an individual, but by teams. I’m very much convinced that the death of GW2 was somebody’s enormous ego and need to have it validated.

manveruppd.7601:

I’m with you on the combat, but I don’t think the situation is unfixable: I think if basic autoattack damage were seriously nerfed right across the board, and the big damage skills became better telegraphed so as to make dodging them more meaningful, this could become a more tactical, cerebral team-game.

This is an EXCELLENT suggestion that was made adnauseum duringn development.

Unfortunately, it is not a suggestion that is equal to the creative genius that arenanet hired – as a result this, and several other sub-par suggestions were ignored. Most because they would hold GW2 back from being a AAA Esport.

Honestly it reminds me of when I was a child and would see people suggest really good ideas and then ignore them – because I was trying to prove to myself I could be clever and invent my own path.

Still not having a pause feature 2 years after launch, when the game was marketed as a AAA Esport… (remember we waited like a year for match making and spectating)

Basically GW2 PvP isn’t fun because the devs didn’t commit the resources to it that they promised. They just lied and got us to preorder their game so they could have our monies.

Lupanic.6502:

Stop QQ please. Gw2 is awesome and the developer created nice stuff for us in the last patch and they listen to us. Of course we all want everything done in 1 month, but it needs time. But they go into right direction.

hold up a moment.

I wanted GW1 with a z axis. A kitten ton of us wanted that. We were told we’d get something sort of like that, and Magic The Gathering was specifically sited as a source of inspiration.

GW2 Has never been close to being the spiritual anything of either of those games.

They have never listened to their players.

Remember when the players said downed states were kittening terrible? They’re still here.

We said the ele downed state was the worst and asked others be nerfed to the same level? They buffed ele to be strongest downed state to solve that problem.

Or when we asked to separate organized from random ques in tournament and they released that awful ‘paid’ tournament thing that just resulted in teams farming unpaid tournaments to get the tokens to do paid tournaments?

There have been a lot of times when the community told the devs what they wanted, and the devs thought they knew better… that’s why this game has some pretty kittenty PvP.

No it’s not the worst PvP, I don’t know what is… but the pvp here is pretty terrible especially when measured against GW1 and the audiences expectations.

The PvP is unfun to a lot of the GW1 fans because of the type of skill involved (and yes there’s a lot of skill in gw2.)

In GW1, carefully selecting the abilities each player would bring played a significant role in determining the victor. Next to that came team coordination and good sound judgement calls.

In GW2, there’s a stronger emphasis on button combos, muscle memory and twitch reflexes. These can all be a lot of fun and some great games center almost entirely around such elements.

I think the reason I personally don’t find GW2 to be very much fun is that it isn’t really delivering either of these ‘flavors’ of fun. It doesn’t have the sort of abstractions in the skills and traits that made gw1 skill selection similar in spirit to building a magic deck. It does have a bit of the team coordination, but the difference between 5v5 and 8v8 feels almost exponential in this regard. Careful decision making… doesn’t really go hand in hand with all these gap closers and teleports.

So if it is to be a twitch gaming experience, where the kitten is my crosshair? I mean I can almost get into the whole rolling thing but seriously, if you want a fun twitch reflex game this is not it. It’s a tiny portion of the way there.

It takes skill, it can be fun for some I guess, but it wasn’t what we were promised, and while it meshes two genres of gameplay not often combined it does so really rather poorly.

Oh.

Well, there was once this game called Guild Wars 1. It head tremendous depth of strategy. Selecting the abilities your player brought to game was sort of like constructing a magic the gathering deck. We looked forward to a future in which we could have that game, but with a z-axis.

So it’s sequel, guild wars 2, replaced strategy with button combos, simplified the teamwork and positioning elements, and completely gutted the abstract and potentially creative skill system with something simplistic, containing only a couple of viable options.

So compared to MMO PvP overal, it was alright. Had a few things going for it.

Compared to Guild Wars 1, it was a terrible discgraceful shame.

A lot of us sort of lump it in with the other big dissapointments of the time period: Starwars episodes 1,2,3. EverQuest 2, Diablo 3, I even think Tribes Vengeance was in on that one.

Mayge GW2 PvP isn’t so bad, but it sure is a dissapointment after GW1. So much so that it often fealt like the devs weren’t even honestly trying.

Looks like a big no.

My theory: egomaniac at anet thought they knew best, so they ignored all community input about pvp.

pvp failed.

egomaniac probably still thinks they were just a genius ahead of their time, that or anet just decided they couldn’t make good on all their pvp promises so they might as well not waste resources trying.

I will probably not be trusting anet again in the future. whatever creative genius the company once had going for it in the days of gw1 has clearly either left or lost it’s voice within the company.

Well, at some point, someone high in the dev food chain decided that they knew what was best for PvP and ignored … a lot of advice … and refused to try a number of things, including game modes alternate to Conquest. (they said they didn’t want to divide the pvp commuity.)

Now that it’s pretty obvious that person was wrong, and their PvP failed to meet expectations… one would hope anet would give us what we all were promised / pre ordered… but I think that person probably still thinks they were a genius ahead of their time and we all just aren’t ready for them yet.

So here’s what I would like:

8v8ish PvP inspired by Guild Wars 1 and Magic the Gathering. I prefered Hall of Heroes, but I’m open to GvG style.

When I, and all the other GW1 fans pleaded for this, arenanet often explained that they wanted a highly spectatable game so they could be an AAA esport.

That’s how we got only 1 game mode, downed state, small teams, etc.

Now it’s been two and a half years… and twitch tv doesn’t seem like it’s in love, or ever will be. We’re just friends with it. I’m pretty sure a lot of people on this forum understand what that means — it’s time to move on with your life, try something else. Maybe years from now you’ll meet again and get a fresh start, but if you just linger and keep trying… it’s never going to happen.

So I propose we try all that stuff all your fans asked for and that you claimed would be in launch, resulting in a huge number of preorders.

It’s not that big a deal, Blizzard admitted they’d made a mistake with D3, changed their direction, and look at them now! They got like 60% more viewers than you do on twitch! They didn’t even design their game with spectation in mind!

Anyways that’s what I would like from an expansion: what I asked for and was promised the first time around. I’d even cautiously await the reviews after launch, and, based on those, likely become a continued customer of anet.

What would you want to see (for PvP) in a GW2 expansion?

I know I have an opinion I’ll post later. I’ll update this OP with popular trends in the thread.

tichorum.2415:

Everyone saw you were running Mending and left the game.

Sorry I’ve been out of the loop a bit.

Was this a GW1 reference or did they actually put mending on as a warrior ability in GW2?

I would say awesome if they did, but the way they sort of gave the bird to all their GW1 fans makes me frown at that. I feel like GW1 is too good for these devs and they shouldn’t be allowed to make references.

So, I bought GW2 for the PvP. There were a few promised items that weren’t quite ready at launch… I stuck around for about a year but then decided a watched pot doesn’t boil.

I’ll log in over the next few days and see for myself. BUT! I thought I’d ask the community: Here are the promises I bought the game for, I’m curious how they’ve come along.

I remember I wanted

1.) Working infastructure. (I left with a broken match making system, pairing solo ques against team ques and such)
2) MtG inspired mechanics. (so we had a stable core that usually won maybe, but there were gimmick builds that sort of almost had a shot and kept the meta stirred and interesting. You had to make hard decisions when building characters in a team set instead of just grabbing the 1 or 2 viable options.) … we weren’t there yet in terms of trait, skill, or amulet depth when I left.
3) Some sort of resemblance of GW1’s pvp spirit, at all. Could be point 2. Anything.

I think in terms of patch sequence, I left shortly after they nerfed Ele water magic power scaling by like 50% in an effort to curb bunkers. (not that I had some particular problem with what that patch was, just that I needed some space to cool off about what that patch wasn’t.)

Romek.4201:

you dont care bout your teammates by bringing worsed class/build so its your fault too^^

play it in hotjoin or your 5 man team but dont grief other randoms by “testing” broken class

and you can whine bout but thats how i see it^^

Longbow power ranger, even slightly worse, so suckeeeeeet

@OP:

Anyone with a mature and level head on their shoulders has long since stopped playing gw2pvp for one of a dozen reasons all summarized by: it sucks donkey balls.

what remains … are specialty breeds.

nerf staff eles please

wouldnt solve 1/2 the problems, but a third maybe… definately a good idea.

I wouldn’t, the gameplay is still kitten , too many gap closers, uninteresting traits…

id come back if weapon skills and traits were reworked so that combat was

a) easier to follow / less spam
b) involved more tactics and decision making

or

a) we got a crosshair and everything became an aimed ability

basically, give me twitch gameplay thats fun as twitch gameplay, or give me some depth of strategy… but this 1/2 a twitch game 1/2 a thinking game kitten is 1/2 a fun game.

Cush.4063:

Thieves changes are just ridiculous and not plausible……..YET again. Have you played a thief? Hell, has anyone that posts about balance changes on these forums played one? I sure as hell don’t think so. LOL. So wrong in so many ways. Play the class for a week before you guys think of trying to balance it. Ty. Your welcome.

So conceptually, the Thief is a problem. Really, it’s a bursty evasive unavoidable highly mobile class with strong support… It’s assasins creed (a single player game where you murder NPCs) in a multiplayer game (where being murdered isnt fun)… so it gets random nerf bat beatings to it’s knee caps…

what it needs, is a role definition that gives it a narrower niche, then we can balance it within that niche. ‘being a kitten that 1 shots kittenes from nowhere and gets away’ isn’t really a niche that works for a pvp game.

being a stealthed controller who threatens to dissable and expose enemies that are out of position, allowing ones teamates to fall upon them… thats a good role definition. It lets stealth be a good weapon because a stealthed thief forces you to play cautiously with your squishier dps peices… even when the thief is just chillin…

but when everybody gets 2+ buttons that teleport them here or there, making it impossible to punish someone for bad positioning, and making it irrelevant wether you know where the thief is or isn’t (it just presses ‘steal’ and it’s where you didn’t want it to be) …

Ok Swagg, I’ll bite:

I propose some changes to your proposal. Thematically, for now:

1) Cripple, Poison, Chilled, and Vulnerability should all function in a stacking manner, 1-30. (2x slow, heal reduction, 1x slow, as is)

2) Auto attacks should not yield significant damage, but should apply stacks of these debuffs, except where class mechanics (such as life force) may take place.

3) Auto attacks then need not be subject to the same level of ‘dodgability’ that we see in other skills, where all of your suggestions should be heeded.

4) FILO condition removal systems should then be used, making active AND passive condi removal tactical, as a quick cover to a high stack could protect you from an interval tick of removal. (passive random still = bad).

5) Remove most gap oppeners and closers, so that classes can be dedicated to control type roles.

6) the stuff you proposed

man I remember getting a warning on guildhall forums because I went off after I realised that nobody, including several forum moderators, knew what an edge bomb was and these were the kids discussing what gw2 pvp would be.

… prolly shoulda known then.