If you cannot dodge/block phantasm’s they should only be hiting once because its almost a guaranted hit/damage and mostly because its not the player who is attacking but the AI.
By that logic an AE field should only be hitting you once, because it’s not the player attacking you but the server with it’s server-side script.
Sense?
If you cannot dodge/block then its true, there is realy no sense in that.
Sense?
In a nerf-mesmer thread? Have you that much faith in humanity? ^^’
I dont think mesmers are that biased. There are some good points in this tread.
Since when our own summons should be dependent on what the enemies are doing?
Phantasm’s attacks are supposed to be our burst dmg regardless of the mesmer build. To me, it works more like warrior’s Burst move than pets. A burst move that you can dodge/mitigate just like any other move. I don’t see the need to fix anything.
That means that you can dodge phantasm’s and after the 1st attack you need to create them again after the CD is over? In that case i agree with you. No fix needed.
Now they can still be blinded / invulnerabled / obstructed, but not blocked/dodged.
That means you cannot dodge or block phantasm’s?
Phantasms are our one of the main sources of large damage as a class, and you can easily dodge attacks and so forth, even if you’re just spamming dodge whenever you can.
That means you can dodge the phantasm’s?
If you cannot dodge/block phantasm’s they should only be hiting once because its almost a guaranted hit/damage and mostly because its not the player who is attacking but the AI.
The people arguing against dodging aren’t making any sense. If we say “mesmer don’t have a lot of damage if you can dodge it” then we could say the same for almost anything. “s/d thieves don’t have a lot of damage outside larc strike, make it undodgeable” “GS guards don’t have a lot of damage outside whirling wrath, make it 600 radius and undodgeable”. Why should any class get unavoidable skills?
Well,
Why do you believe it makes any sense that you should get two chances to dodge our attacks (At phantasm spawn and their actual attack) when we should only get one chance to dodge yours (When your damage occurs)?You’re supposed to dodge the damage, not the setup.
It is that way with every profession.Maybe i dont understant what you tried to say. Are you saying that is fair to have to dodge two times when you only use 1 skill/utility? Did i get this right?
Phantasm damage is parsed out over several attacks. In order for a phantasm to live up to its potential it must get off more than one attack. You are not disadvantaged by having to dodge more than once, if you dodge once and fail the next one that’s still 50% damage mitigation.
Perhaps you would prefer if phantasm damage was doubled or tripled but self destruct after one attack?
I already wrote about that in this post. Read it from the beginning till the end and you will find my opinion about that.
(edited by silentnight warrior.2714)
Not really, the reason for this meta is that necromancers/engies/Spirit Rangers(before it was beastmasters before that it was traps) were unoptimal,
FAST FORWARD TO RECENT BUFFS to necromancers
FAST FORWARD TO RECENT BUFFS to spirits
FAST FORWARD TO RECENT NERFS to phantasm mesmers
All those things made the meta change to the meta we have today. That is why i said that mesmers were in a very good place before the new meta.
Has you said as soon as they fix the meta (conditions spam) (those two first points) the mesmer will be good again “But never again like it was before when Mesmers were a superior master race” because of the 3 point you said.
Just tested.
Sagramor and the GW2 Wiki are correct: the adrenaline cost is the same and then a part of adrenaline is refunded.So even with Burst Mastery you remove 3 conditions at full adrenaline.
As it should… you spend all 3 bars and then you gain adrenaline for the attack.
One very legitimate complaint I rarely see brought up is the fact a Mesmer can be stealthed while phantasms land hits.
It promotes cheesey fighting by spaming phantasms and stealth.[/spoiler]That is so true.
And how is that any different from any other class that can stealth and channel an attack???? Thieves abuse this more than any other profession and yet you wine about a mesmer doing it.
I was just aggreing with that statment. And i agree with that because its true. Its a legit complain that rarely is brought up. Read all the sentence.
If you have two duelists out AND a berserker your opponent has been doing nothing for around 20 seconds.
You made good point there. The player needs to focus on the AI first to be able to win the fight. That leads to AoE Spam to face the amount of clones, ilusions and phantasms the mesmers can have in a short time (this is not only a mesmer problem, but with all the classes that use AI). So the meta we have right now is to face that problem.
If people want AoE spam nerfed (i do), they should realize why we need AoE spam right now.
Before this meta mesmers were in a very good place in pvp. That only changed with the current meta.
But there should not be a fix to AoE spam before they fix the problems with AI.
We got this meta for a reason
One very legitimate complaint I rarely see brought up is the fact a Mesmer can be stealthed while phantasms land hits.
It promotes cheesey fighting by spaming phantasms and stealth.[/spoiler]
That is so true.
If “passive play” is your issue with phantasms, you should also be calling for nerfs to every AI in the game (minions, spirits, spirit weapons, pets, etc). You should also be requesting nerfs to all of the passive benefits Thieves get in stealth. There’s far more passive play in this game than just phantasms. It’s not an issue specific to them. Really, you should be posting in one of the many topics that already exist that are complaining about passive benefits and AI. I fail to see why a topic specific to phantasms was necessary, especially considering Mesmers are bottom tier in the meta right now and phantasm builds have never been popular in tPvP anyway. Phantasm builds are a good hotjoin and 1v1 troll build, but they’re not meta. Phantams in shatter builds only ever get one hit off before being shattered and have greatly reduced damaged due to no trait investments.
Ergo, I fail to see the issue. You’re justified in wanting the passive play in this game to be changed, but not in creating a topic targeting just a single facet of said play, which isn’t even the bulk of the issue right now (Spirit Rangers are).
Totaly agree with you. There is much passive (no skill) play in this game.
And is now but a shadow of its former glory.
That happened not because of nerfs but because the current meta. As soon the meta changes we will see the strenght of mesmers again
Playing mesmer, I rarely, if ever see someone capably dodge all 3 of my phantasms. If zerker misses, the other 2 iduelists won’t.
I personally dropped mesmer because I found them easy mode. You aren’t required to keep target. Once cast the phantasms automatically target the right person and will wait patiently if they’re in stealth. They never go for turrets, and they never go for clones if the first cast is correct.
Unlike other pets, they recharge on cast, no death.
Any build that has pets do the main damage and can be used in a fire and forget manner is unsuited to PvP play. They require little skill beyond cast your damage and now evade as best you can until you need to recast. When compared with warrior who has to maintain melee ranged, dodge heavy damage when they see it, snare, heal and back to maintain melee range against professions with passive speed boosts..it highlights just how easy mode mesmers are. No skill. Brainless and to me personally, no fun because of it. Just my 2 cents worth.
That problem is not related with mesmers only but with all classes that uses AI tho fight for them. ANet should look at the importance of the AI in PvP and rework classes after that.
Right now the only pvp you see is when a warrior fights another warrior (if there is no rock dog presente ofc). In PvP there are more PvE than PvP.
Even if ANet dont deep rework the AI on classes, they at least should change their efects/damage.
If a change like that would go through you’d be crying the next day I guarantee it.
In fact it was a hot topic back in the day.Anet specifically nerfed CDs on phantasms MULTIPLE TIMES
(Think we’re up to 3 now) because they want you to have to choose whether to drop them let them dps more then once or allow them to be killed by enemies.It’s this fact that leads me to believe that they WANT people to rely on phantasm damage/uptime.
If you sumon a phantasm and the oponent can dodge it once and its not worryed about that phantasm until the CD is over, that is fair imo. And i belive it would promote skill play. But the CD/damage must also be well thought for mesmer and other classes think that it is ok that way.
Wow, reducing phantasm CDs would be such a boon for shatter mesmers you don’t even know, most of my phantasms only attack once anyway.
Please anet, listen to this guy who has no idea about how to balance classes whatsoever Please buff my shatter mesmer.
Yea… Same CD with other skills with same damage and usefullness. At last you agree with me
The people arguing against dodging aren’t making any sense. If we say “mesmer don’t have a lot of damage if you can dodge it” then we could say the same for almost anything. “s/d thieves don’t have a lot of damage outside larc strike, make it undodgeable” “GS guards don’t have a lot of damage outside whirling wrath, make it 600 radius and undodgeable”. Why should any class get unavoidable skills?
Well,
Why do you believe it makes any sense that you should get two chances to dodge our attacks (At phantasm spawn and their actual attack) when we should only get one chance to dodge yours (When your damage occurs)?You’re supposed to dodge the damage, not the setup.
It is that way with every profession.Maybe i dont understant what you tried to say. Are you saying that is fair to have to dodge two times when you only use 1 skill/utility? Did i get this right?
You did not get that right.
It is fair the way it is now, as you get one opportunity to dodge damage (The phantasm’s attack), just like I have one opportunity to dodge damage applied by you (Your attack).If you could dodge the summoning of a phantasm to negate the spawn entirely, you would have two chances to dodge the same attack. As you would be allowed to miss dodging the summon and still avoid damage by dodging the first attack.
Ok. If only the attack of the phantasm can cause damage to the other player thats fair for me. Thanks for the answer.
But the phantasm should only attack once.Mine usually get shattered or killed before they get a second attack anyway, so it wouldn’t be as big of a problem as it sounds.
But I still disagree.
Phantasms are pretty much the only damage we get if we’re letting them attack multiple times (Since they die the second we shatter), a mesmer that relies on Phantasms for damage pretty much drops the phantasm (Maybe swaps weapons and drops the second one) and then has nothing to do but CC or survival for at least the next 15~20 seconds until the CD is up.In a scenario such as you describe, a mesmer would have nearly zero damage output for 20 seconds just because their phantasm’s attack got dodged. This is already the case for a lot of mesmers when their illusions are killed (Which is a far cry from hard to do with all the AoE in this game, especially recently). A mesmer’s value to fights is greatly diminished when all they can do is kite or teleport for half of it.
So if we are talking about – i use one skill that you can dodge once, CD is aplied to the skill and i cannot use it again until the CD is over (if i hit you thats good, if not to bad) and you have the same oportunity as me with the same sistem, that’s totaly fair to me.
Every class (except thiefs) have CD and mesmer is no exception. They should reduce the CD for those kind of skills to be on par with other professions and they should only hit once.
This way is fair for all.LOL. Silent are you seriously having a super hard time beating Phantasm Mesmers? Or do you just hate all Mesmers in general?
Lol… No hate for mesmers here…
Just the same way you have your opinion on this game, others can also have their opinion about what is fair or not. ( I believe we were talking about that)
See the history of my points. No hate there… Some trues and some thoughts only…
I liked your post… lol
The problem is not mesmers or necros or rangers as a class. The problem is AI doing whakittens suposted to be the player doing.
That leads to unbalanced fights where PvP is not there.
You do PvE against minions,pets, phantasms and then you do PvP if you manage to stay alive till then.
Thats why they need to fix those points before nerfing the AOE Spam
Are you literally kidding me?
“You have no idea where the real mesmer is RIGHT AWAY” yes you do.
“Illusionary Leap and Swap” “Without Being far away” “Teleport directly towards”Illusionary leap is 400 range and cripples just so you know, and swapping(Immobilize) brings you to the target;
But Please keep ignoring the facts and posting just utter ridiculousness.Blurred frenzy/leap can be interrupted/stunned before it hits,
Dodged and or mitigated easily.
Fear? do you know how to use fear? Yea. Fear interrupts it.
There’s many more!But it’s so easy to mitigate it doesn’t even matter
Retaliation helps, Porting away helps, Evades help, sooooo many ways to get out of bf/immobilize if you fell asleep while the COMPLETELY telegraphed leap combo was coming right for you.Please teach me, oh master rank 4 forum warrior.
OK
“Illusionary leap is 400 range and cripples just so you know, and swapping(IMMOBILIZE) BRINGS YOU TO THE TARGET”. There. I could not say that any better. Thanks for the help in that.
So you can Immo the target in a safe spot while swaping (changing places with the ilusion without walking to the target you know) and do the high risk skill blurred frenzy.
“You have no idea where the real mesmer is RIGHT AWAY” yes you do"
- You do (the mesmer)… The others dont see it right away.
So if the AI is useless in your opinion you should not mind ANet nerf them. I dont mind.
If you still want to see the usefullness of the ilusions, see the vídeo again. There are many fights there to watch.
Just see the vídeo….
In the first 2 fights the mesmer goes in stealth and watch what the AI is doing… yea… useless…
(edited by silentnight warrior.2714)
Well i must agree that you play well the mesmer class.
But i must agree with XII.9401 too.
When this meta is over mesmer will be king again and that is not because they all are skilfull players. If you dont belive whatch your vídeo and see how mach damage you did with clones/phantasms. Even when you cannot attack the AI did it for you.hahahahah oh wow are you kidding me?
I guess you’ve never played a mesmer and therefore can’t even begin to appreciate the skill that it would take to play such a ridiculous build.
The AI does almost nothing for you, if you don’t believe me try playing count’s spec which he dreamed up while high on what I can only assume is new york grade A-bomb.
Well my first sentence was: “Well i must agree that you play well the mesmer class.” and for me to say thakittens because i enjoyed that play.
The AI does lots of things for you, as for exemple: You can immo some player without the need to go next to him (its dangerous you know) and then use your Blurred Frenzy (here i saw the skill needed to avoid all the damage from the other player while doing that high risk skill).
AI takes the damage for you, your oponents when you are always moving from one side to the other dont know right away where the real mesmer is. This while having phantasm up…
The AI for the mesmer is essential. If you dont believe me see the vídeo again.
I’ve read your posts in other threads on mesmers and I can only assume you have a personal vendetta against them or are just starting to learning the game.
The proof that you’re just new to the game and have no idea how to play is;
“You have no idea where the real mesmer is” Which is pretty hilarious…
“You can immo the player with a phantasm without getting close” LOL
“Blurred frenzy evades all damagezzz” Lol BF was just nerfed, you can still hit with certain abilities.
Read again then:
- You have no idea where the real mesmer is RIGHT AWAY.
- You can immo the player with a ilusion without getting close – Illusionary Leap and then swap. After that you use that high risk skill called Blurred Frenzy.
-Bluried frenzy its only vulnerable to retaliation.
Should i teach you the mesmer class then?
And i have not problems with mesmers. I have problems with AI. Classes that use AI don’t do PvP imo.
The people arguing against dodging aren’t making any sense. If we say “mesmer don’t have a lot of damage if you can dodge it” then we could say the same for almost anything. “s/d thieves don’t have a lot of damage outside larc strike, make it undodgeable” “GS guards don’t have a lot of damage outside whirling wrath, make it 600 radius and undodgeable”. Why should any class get unavoidable skills?
Well,
Why do you believe it makes any sense that you should get two chances to dodge our attacks (At phantasm spawn and their actual attack) when we should only get one chance to dodge yours (When your damage occurs)?You’re supposed to dodge the damage, not the setup.
It is that way with every profession.Maybe i dont understant what you tried to say. Are you saying that is fair to have to dodge two times when you only use 1 skill/utility? Did i get this right?
You did not get that right.
It is fair the way it is now, as you get one opportunity to dodge damage (The phantasm’s attack), just like I have one opportunity to dodge damage applied by you (Your attack).If you could dodge the summoning of a phantasm to negate the spawn entirely, you would have two chances to dodge the same attack. As you would be allowed to miss dodging the summon and still avoid damage by dodging the first attack.
Ok. If only the attack of the phantasm can cause damage to the other player thats fair for me. Thanks for the answer.
But the phantasm should only attack once.Mine usually get shattered or killed before they get a second attack anyway, so it wouldn’t be as big of a problem as it sounds.
But I still disagree.
Phantasms are pretty much the only damage we get if we’re letting them attack multiple times (Since they die the second we shatter), a mesmer that relies on Phantasms for damage pretty much drops the phantasm (Maybe swaps weapons and drops the second one) and then has nothing to do but CC or survival for at least the next 15~20 seconds until the CD is up.In a scenario such as you describe, a mesmer would have nearly zero damage output for 20 seconds just because their phantasm’s attack got dodged. This is already the case for a lot of mesmers when their illusions are killed (Which is a far cry from hard to do with all the AoE in this game, especially recently). A mesmer’s value to fights is greatly diminished when all they can do is kite or teleport for half of it.
So if we are talking about – i use one skill that you can dodge once, CD is aplied to the skill and i cannot use it again until the CD is over (if i hit you thats good, if not to bad) and you have the same oportunity as me with the same sistem, that’s totaly fair to me.
Every class (except thiefs) have CD and mesmer is no exception. They should reduce the CD for those kind of skills to be on par with other professions and they should only hit once.
This way is fair for all.
Well i must agree that you play well the mesmer class.
But i must agree with XII.9401 too.
When this meta is over mesmer will be king again and that is not because they all are skilfull players. If you dont belive whatch your vídeo and see how mach damage you did with clones/phantasms. Even when you cannot attack the AI did it for you.hahahahah oh wow are you kidding me?
I guess you’ve never played a mesmer and therefore can’t even begin to appreciate the skill that it would take to play such a ridiculous build.
The AI does almost nothing for you, if you don’t believe me try playing count’s spec which he dreamed up while high on what I can only assume is new york grade A-bomb.
Well my first sentence was: “Well i must agree that you play well the mesmer class.” and for me to say thakittens because i enjoyed that play.
The AI does lots of things for you, as for exemple: You can immo some player without the need to go next to him (its dangerous you know) and then use your Blurred Frenzy (here i saw the skill needed to avoid all the damage from the other player while doing that high risk skill).
AI takes the damage for you, your oponents when you are always moving from one side to the other dont know right away where the real mesmer is. This while having phantasm up…
The AI for the mesmer is essential. If you dont believe me see the vídeo again.
The people arguing against dodging aren’t making any sense. If we say “mesmer don’t have a lot of damage if you can dodge it” then we could say the same for almost anything. “s/d thieves don’t have a lot of damage outside larc strike, make it undodgeable” “GS guards don’t have a lot of damage outside whirling wrath, make it 600 radius and undodgeable”. Why should any class get unavoidable skills?
Well,
Why do you believe it makes any sense that you should get two chances to dodge our attacks (At phantasm spawn and their actual attack) when we should only get one chance to dodge yours (When your damage occurs)?You’re supposed to dodge the damage, not the setup.
It is that way with every profession.Maybe i dont understant what you tried to say. Are you saying that is fair to have to dodge two times when you only use 1 skill/utility? Did i get this right?
You did not get that right.
It is fair the way it is now, as you get one opportunity to dodge damage (The phantasm’s attack), just like I have one opportunity to dodge damage applied by you (Your attack).If you could dodge the summoning of a phantasm to negate the spawn entirely, you would have two chances to dodge the same attack. As you would be allowed to miss dodging the summon and still avoid damage by dodging the first attack.
Ok. If only the attack of the phantasm can cause damage to the other player thats fair for me. Thanks for the answer.
But the phantasm should only attack once.
Well i must agree that you play well the mesmer class.
But i must agree with XII.9401 too.
When this meta is over mesmer will be king again and that is not because they all are skilfull players. If you dont belive whatch your vídeo and see how mach damage you did with clones/phantasms. Even when you cannot attack the AI did it for you.
The people arguing against dodging aren’t making any sense. If we say “mesmer don’t have a lot of damage if you can dodge it” then we could say the same for almost anything. “s/d thieves don’t have a lot of damage outside larc strike, make it undodgeable” “GS guards don’t have a lot of damage outside whirling wrath, make it 600 radius and undodgeable”. Why should any class get unavoidable skills?
Well,
Why do you believe it makes any sense that you should get two chances to dodge our attacks (At phantasm spawn and their actual attack) when we should only get one chance to dodge yours (When your damage occurs)?You’re supposed to dodge the damage, not the setup.
It is that way with every profession.
Maybe i dont understant what you tried to say. Are you saying that is fair to have to dodge two times when you only use 1 skill/utility? Did i get this right?
ok the thing is those meta builds screw up a ton of other builds if they get nerfed. if u nerf all phantasms, yes the phantasm builds will get weaker and maybe are still sorta viable, but it would affect every single mesmer that doesent use those spvp builds. as a condi/reflection mesmer i have very little dps, but the phantasm is the only one that allows me to deal a little more dmg than just a 435 autoattack hit.
also the clone on dodge is good for shatterers and needed. anet made class that shatters a lot, so nerfing clone production would affect and weaken every mesmer out there and a lot of builds that arent shatter would become not viable anymore and therefore would force us into those spvp builds even more.
same with every class out there. u nerf something that everyone qq’s about and it happens to be a core element of the class it will hurt every build and a class could become completely up with no build variety.
what do u expect? if u remove (or nerf to the ground) every class specific skill then we would have no more mesmers( they would be called the weaker version of a warrior with no armor or toughness or dps, but hey they got a sword), no more rangers( they would be petless very weak versions of thieves without stealth,dps or mobility), elementalist would be a hobbit version of gandalf the grey that has only autoattacks on staff left.
seriously stop whining about ai and all the stuff your class cant do and start focusing on stuff your class can do.
Man i just want to PvP.
Right now what we have in the mists is not PvP with only one exception: When two warriors fight each other.
All the other fights you have to be pay atention to the player + clones/minions/spirits/ spirit weapons/turrets/Guild of thiefs and even elementals.
When you got AI to do YOUR job its not PvP.I wouldn’t say spamming stuns (the most viable warrior build out there) is skillful play… I think you’re just behind on times, warriors are just as good/cheesy as other classes if you build correctly for the current times/meta… Sounds like you’re just one of those people who hold onto “I’m bad, but I can get away with it because I blame my lack of ability on how bad the warrior class is”, hint: its not… Mace/Shield+Hammer is incredibly stupid. Mace+Shield+GS is also very effective. LB+ S/S is also good for condi builds, which can absolutely wreck someone and easily stacks 18+ bleeds if played well, while having 8-10 seconds of condition immunity, and access to stability, and Signet of stamina/healing. Warriors are in are just as cheesy now as everything else. Have you not seen all the “stunlocking is pvp?” type threads…
Man… I just want to PvP.
I dont like spams in any way (as a warrior or as other class). But as i said, before they fix the spam they need to fix that 3 points first.
Till then AOE Spams are a must have in this game.
Don’t expect big balance changes in today’s patch, because they are still waiting for the PAX finals…
I was not expecting changes today.
I´m just saying that before thay nerf AOE Condition Spam they should take care of that 3 points before, because when you have all that points in a game, AOE Condition Spam is a must have.
Edit: ALso in my opinion when they fix that 3 points and the AOE Spam the game will be much more balanced.
(edited by silentnight warrior.2714)
ok the thing is those meta builds screw up a ton of other builds if they get nerfed. if u nerf all phantasms, yes the phantasm builds will get weaker and maybe are still sorta viable, but it would affect every single mesmer that doesent use those spvp builds. as a condi/reflection mesmer i have very little dps, but the phantasm is the only one that allows me to deal a little more dmg than just a 435 autoattack hit.
also the clone on dodge is good for shatterers and needed. anet made class that shatters a lot, so nerfing clone production would affect and weaken every mesmer out there and a lot of builds that arent shatter would become not viable anymore and therefore would force us into those spvp builds even more.
same with every class out there. u nerf something that everyone qq’s about and it happens to be a core element of the class it will hurt every build and a class could become completely up with no build variety.
what do u expect? if u remove (or nerf to the ground) every class specific skill then we would have no more mesmers( they would be called the weaker version of a warrior with no armor or toughness or dps, but hey they got a sword), no more rangers( they would be petless very weak versions of thieves without stealth,dps or mobility), elementalist would be a hobbit version of gandalf the grey that has only autoattacks on staff left.
seriously stop whining about ai and all the stuff your class cant do and start focusing on stuff your class can do.
Man i just want to PvP.
Right now what we have in the mists is not PvP with only one exception: When two warriors fight each other.
All the other fights you have to be pay atention to the player + clones/minions/spirits/ spirit weapons/turrets/Guild of thiefs and even elementals.
When you got AI to do YOUR job its not PvP.
^^ this – 15 char
So today is patch day.
Dear ANet please nerf the necro class has Romek wants but before that fix that 3 points i mentioned.
After that there is no reason to have so many AOE Spam.
And dont Forget thief blind spam also.
And mesmer clone spam also.
First of all i must say that i dont like the meta we are playing now. But when you play to many pvp matches has i do (i almost only do pvp) you start to notice some things that are hapening all the time in matches.
1) AI fighting for the players (its not pvp in my opinion).
2) To many clones, spirits, minions, turrets and spirit weapons all of them with Croud Control habilities in one tiny spot (when they are all on the same team you know the picture)
3) Too many dodges,evades, teleports and get of the jail free cards for some classes.
This 3 points are obvious to everyone and i dont want to say here if they are fair or not.
The point is, to be abble to fight for a chance to win against that 3 points its necessary to nuke that area with conditions. Its a must to kill all the AI in that point.
In my opinion ANet only should fix the AOE Spam when they fix the 3 points above.
What i find more funny is that warriors made that build to adapt to the condition meta. Still other classes refuse to adapt to warrior changes. Its better for them to nerf warriors instead of nerfing the food that make that build to much strong than it is in reality.
And again that build can be countered.spvp has no foods and wvw will never be balanced around what 1v1 roamers are doing
Thats why i said “the food that make that build to much strong than it is in reality.” with reality i was refering to spvp/tpvp. In WvWvW that build is much better because of the food.
Nerf the food and it is all right.
Besides not only warrior can use that food, that trait and that runes in WvWvW.
What i find more funny is that warriors made that build to adapt to the condition meta. Still other classes refuse to adapt to warrior changes. Its better for them to nerf warriors instead of nerfing the food that make that build to much stronger than it is in reality.
And again that build can be countered.
While the counter is to carry a reliable stunbreaker and stability, the amount of times you can stun an enemy compared to the actual amount of times you can use stability and stunbreakers are unequal by far.
Another counter – you can kyte the warrior and not being hit once by his stuns (they are all obvious for the exception of skull crack but that burst skill has a 130 range). The warrior will only use his burst when they are with mace/shield so take special care on that situation and dont let the warrior land the burst. Berserker stance lasts 8 sec on a 60sec CD so you should not use criple, immo or chill when the warrior has that stance up, only before or after. After BS is off proced to kill the warrior as before.
There are many ways to counter that build and some classes already are doing that realy easely. Just wait to Berserker Stance is off and do has before.Kite the warrior??? You mean the class with 100 CC immunity and highest mobility in the game? Whatever u smoking bro, give me some. I need it
Highest mobility? When using GS (i supose you are talking about the Build that op is talking about) is usualy to escape or to go from a point to another point. Mace/shield (that is what that build uses to stun) dont offer almost any mobility so in battle you dont have to worry about the warrior mobility. Just see when he changes to mace/shield and kite the warrior.
I believe you were trying to say 100% CC immunity. If that was the case show me how a warrior can have that and still use that build.
If you cannot kite a warrior with that build then i dont know what to say to you.
Edit: has i said above, necro, mesmer and thief can strip boons.
(edited by silentnight warrior.2714)
While the counter is to carry a reliable stunbreaker and stability, the amount of times you can stun an enemy compared to the actual amount of times you can use stability and stunbreakers are unequal by far.
Another counter – you can kyte the warrior and not being hit once by his stuns (they are all obvious for the exception of skull crack but that burst skill has a 130 range). The warrior will only use his burst when they are with mace/shield so take special care on that situation and dont let the warrior land the burst. Berserker stance lasts 8 sec on a 60sec CD so you should not use criple, immo or chill when the warrior has that stance up, only before or after. After BS is off proced to kill the warrior as before.
There are many ways to counter that build and some classes already are doing that realy easely. Just wait to Berserker Stance is off and do has before.
Edit: Even in Berserker Stance you can CC the warrior. If the warrior has Stability, a necro, thief or a mesmer can strip their boons and then CC the warrior even if BS in on.
(edited by silentnight warrior.2714)
Well i´m also more interested in the first option (the criple) because we lack ways to stay away from foes if we use mace, and that will promote more skill when people fight against warriors and also would help much more when you are being chassed and you are in disadvantage.
This would only triger in melee range, the skill would remain the same while ranged.
Too much of the mesmer’s damage is tied to his illusions. The shatters also suck without investment (need heavy trait support) and Cry of Frustration is outright bad, while Diversion’s daze doesn’t take amount of clones into account while some warrior can stun someone for 3 seconds on a low cd your mesmer gets huge cd’s on a 1 sec daze and a 25 sec cd buggy aoe knockback.
Warriors dont have instacast ranged skills with no animations like “Mind Wrack” or skills with invulnerability like"Bluried Frenzy". Lets give that to warriors too? Mesmers have their own mechanics while the 3sec warrior stun is also linked to their own mechanics.
Its like to say that if that class do that better than mine i also want that. In that case shall warriors be able to have clones, mind wrack and bluried frenzy? I would not want that to warriors.
I believe mesmers should be toned down in a 1v1 cenário and be buffed a little in team fights (suport).Mind Wrack is not instant cast at range. The clones walk to you. If you’re too terrible to avoid them it’s your fault. Jumper’s channel constantly shows him dodging mindwracks even at melee range.
And they do have skills with invulnerability. It’s called shield stance and endure pain and whirlwind attack and defy pain and even berserker stance, 8 seconds of immunity to conditions that mesmers would kill for.
And effing please, toned down in 1v1? Mesmers cannot beat warriors 1v1 with the new healing signet and running a cc spec, ever.
If you’re losing 1v1’s as a warrior now your build sucks. Warriors are one of the strongest duelists at the moment, only really having a tough match up against s/d thief.
1) for your first sentence i can tell you to see this and go to the mesmer part and watch the “obvious animation” of Mind Wrack.
http://www.twitch.tv/helsethgw2/b/441180799
For your information:
2) The only “Invulnerability” warriors have is while doing a whirlwind attack and its a evade, conditions will still damage you and retal, confusion.
Shield stance – some classes have unblockable attacks in their weapons skills. No Invulnerability there.
Endure pain and defy pain – Just immunity to direct damage (have you heard about the meta?) Condition will melt you. No Invulnerability there
berserker stance – 8 sec of imunity to normal condition duration (if you have +% of condition duration the condition will get trough.) You are still taking direct damage. No Invulnerability there. Mesmers have Null field on a 40 sec CD, it also removes boons on foes and remove conditions on allies. Null Field last 7 seconds, creates a combo field and is a 1200 range utility.
What warriors do its take 3 stances and pop berserker stance with endure pain and sometimes balanced stance also to not being cc while attacking that gives 8 sec of almost imunity to conditions and 4 sec of imunity to direct damage. with 60 sec CD. Can you see the diference with the invulnerability warriors have and mesmers have? And they use all utilitys to do that.
3) Mesmers can beat warriors with Healing Signet runing with that build and they do it. I have seen it many times and i also have lost some fights against mesmers.
4) I didn´t say that mesmers should be toned down in 1v1 because i was losing to them. Sometimes i lose and sometimes i win. The only thing that mesmers should be toned down in 1v1 is in the never ending clones and rework some animations. And of course being buffed a little in team fights (only suport)
(edited by silentnight warrior.2714)
Too much of the mesmer’s damage is tied to his illusions. The shatters also suck without investment (need heavy trait support) and Cry of Frustration is outright bad, while Diversion’s daze doesn’t take amount of clones into account while some warrior can stun someone for 3 seconds on a low cd your mesmer gets huge cd’s on a 1 sec daze and a 25 sec cd buggy aoe knockback.
Warriors dont have instacast ranged skills with no animations like “Mind Wrack” or skills with invulnerability like"Bluried Frenzy". Lets give that to warriors too? Mesmers have their own mechanics while the 3sec warrior stun is also linked to their own mechanics.
Its like to say that if that class do that better than mine i also want that. In that case shall warriors be able to have clones, mind wrack and bluried frenzy? I would not want that to warriors.
I believe mesmers should be toned down in a 1v1 cenário and be buffed a little in team fights (suport).
one thing i don’t get is why on earth warrior’s bleeding last soooooo kitten long compared to any other class? like wtf, i want 20sec+ of bleeds on my mesmer and ranger as well
And i want 20sec+ of poison on my warrior. Whats the point?
The OP Forget the mesmer.
They need to rework the clone spam and the animation of skills such as “Mind Wrack”.
The warrior is not that strong as people say. When you fight a warrior you only fight him, not clones, pets, minions, spirit weapons, turrets so its easy to see and evade him so much easely than other classes. The warrior is the class that have the best and longest animations. A CC warrior needs to be in 130-150 range to be efective and if you bring one stun breaker (that with dodges to evade shied bash and earthshaker – their animation are obvious) or stability (dont use it when you get a 1 sec stun) the warrior is screwed. The other classes OP said plus mesmers in my opinion dont have this weakness.
I can see the criple taking advantage of the leg specialist trait but they will be cripled and immo at the same time and only at the begining of HB and the criple will last longer than the immo.
Usualy when i fight with mace and use this skill the Counter Blow wont hit the enemy that tried to hit me.
I believe this skill would be better if (one of the under options):
a) When you block one attack you inflict criple for 5 sec.
b) when you block one atack you knock down (1sec) or kick back your oponent. (usefull when two players engage you and you need to focus on one of them or to help you escape).
c) When you block one attack you have the option (a window of 2 – 3 sec) to pull your foe to you. (only usefull if you are attacked and not to chase someone).
There are classes that can punish much more on block (inflict daze/stun) and its not a single defense so i would not see this changes OP.
I cannot see the point in that because it would not change nothing in PvP.
1) when would the criple be aplyed? In the begining or at the end of the skill?
a. In the begining – it wont last long to finish the HB and the enemy player can still evade/dodge and the criple dont have enough duration to hold him.
b. In the end – The enemy can evade/dodge and the criple wont be aplyed. Only if you manage to do the full HB in one enemy we would see some results on that change. Against good players it would not work in my opinion.
2) Three seconds cast time is still to much for a skill with no evasion/invul to be used at 130 range where the enemy can avoid your HB and got 3 sec to damage you if you dont cancel the animation.
In my opinion they just need to rework the F1 on the greatsword so you can use HB with more success. If F1 on the GS gives a 3 sec Immo i believe that would be far better and we can use traits to have advantage on it. ( the one that gives you fury when you Immo someone)
In WvW they only need to change the food efects and the build is balanced. (even if do not do that there is a +40% condition duration food).
In sPvP – tPvP i usualy dont see good players die against that build. If that build was OP then top players would use it in tournaments.
Why people still answer to this post?
I believe we could have a trait that inflicted poison (2sec – 33%, 66% or 100% chance (100% chance with cooldown but with longer duration of poison)) on critical hits or blocks.
They are going in the right direction.
Warrior is considered king of PvE just because you can use hundred blades and the mobs take all the damage because they dont move (this is like a ilusion of power). Doing the mobs evade they are in some way nerfing warrior damage in PvE and showing the real strenght and weekness of the class. This will promote other classes that have faceroll habilitys to be used in PvE instead of warriors, and in some way they are balancing PvE and PvP to a same level. This will put the warrior weakness more obvious and they will finaly fix warrior in the end for PvE and PvP.
The reasoning of Excalibur is amazing.
Well thief should be better than warrior in 1v1, but right now warrior is a pain to take down. I’ve examined several roaming warrior videos using this spec and imo the mobility, sustain, and damage is too high as a combined package.
Either way, we’ll see what’s done in the next patch. I’m tired of arguing with people who just want to defend their precious op spec.
Next patch they should fix perma stealth, perma clone making, tone down conditions, balance the damage from classes, remove unblockable moves for free for some classes, reduce the invulnerabilty, distorcion, evades from some classes and after that they should tone down the healing on the signet.
Several build that people say that are OP are 1v1 builds. This is not diferent. The problem in WvWvW is the food. After ANet fix the food that build and healing is perfect balanced with other classes in the game.
Warriors need to use the combination of Lemongrass, Hoelbrack/Melandru armour and Dogged March in WvWvW.
But people are forgeting that warrior is not the only class that can have all of those things.
Perhaps people need to use diferent armour instead of going full berserker (try melandru for instance), and taking stun breakers to avoid key bursts, and manly dont use stun breakers in a <=1 sec stun.
People who knows how to play in sPvP tPvP dont have issues with that build. The problem is the food in WvWvW, so its just needed to change the foods efects and its perfect balanced.
This treads…
All i see is “warrior is OP then nerf them”.
Just use diferent armour runes (Melandru) and trait passive to avoid stuns and take 1 or two stun breakers (just in case the fight takes long) and you can easely kill a warrior with that build.
When i go to PvP i go with the build that alow me to survive longer while being some kind of efective. Other professions should do the same instead of going the cheese they used to play. The meta as changed to conditions spam. I dont go pvp without cleanses but people wants to be efective without change their builds to the new changes…
HB is fine where it is. If you need to change something you should change rush and the f1 skill.
Change rush to a skill similar to bull charge, with 450 range and a 1sec knockdown. The cooldown cood be the same as rush.
Change F1 skill to a leap and instead of fury give imobilize. This will let warriors bring other utilitys.
Didn´t you know that GW2 only have pve?
A hammer warrior in the melee train for zvz guild fights / wvw is priceless. That same ranger who can win 1v1’s, brings nothing to larger group fights.
If you need to cap/hold a point in sPvP/tPvP a ranger is far better for the job because they have advantage in 1v1 or even 1v2 if they are not pure dps classes.
In WvW a ranger have one AoE cripple that i like, because criple+range (problem is retaliation but there are classes that can remove retal from enemys) and Entangle. Used properly with team play can be very efective.
Dont think that warrior is better in WvW because they have diferent roles to play.