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Why to roll necro?

in Necromancer

Posted by: spoj.9672

spoj.9672

No group buff or support with condition removals+ raw damage? Considering the unholy devastation conditions make to teams when bosses inflicts it, I beg to disagree: I’ve seen enough teams wipe by poison or bleeding, to know how useful a condition removal, or better yet, a converting condition well, can be (which I think is a necro unique ability).

Did you even read what i posted? Other classes do it better and with much lower cooldowns. Converting conditions to boons is nice yes. But its certainly not needed and in most cases makes no difference.

True at 66%: as every classes, warr provide boons to the team only when they aren’t playing selfish, which is the point I was trying to do. A warrior who doesn’t use banners opting for signet is a selfish warriors. Same for necros.
And as for other classes, necros don’t have to sacrifice DPS to be helpful: well of corruption+ well of suffering+ well of power and you have support, damage and condition control in a solid package.

Well true, they dont have to sacrifice much to take those wells. But wasting a utility slot with a stupidly high cooldown ability that is replaceable by someone else in the group with a better utility is kind of meh… My build always has WoS and signet of spite because without them my dps would be much lower. I have one free slot for utility and thats all im willing to sacrifice in most situations.

Except you are forgetting to say that wells pulse, so after casting, they damage and corrupt for 6/10 seconds, not once. More than enough to turn the tide in a battle while stacking, giving room to breath to your team or to inflict and/or help dealing a DPS rush (nuker or endfight, pick one or both).
And necros wells have a 30/35 seconds cooldown, while warriors banners have 120 cd or 240 for battle standard. You could argue banners give a sustained boons for 90 secs and I could rebuttal wells contribute with raw damage more often, in which case we could agree to disagree or accept that they can coexist wonderfully in teamwork…

Comparing wells with banners is a really poor idea. Banners have very little downtime compared to cooldown and the downtime they have is usually while you are running to the next boss/fight. Wells however last 6 seconds at the start of a fight. They can only be used once for trash and for bosses 1-3 times max because of their cooldowns. Pulsing doesnt make it good, its still high cooldown and not sustained. A mesmer can just auto attack with sword, create sword clones which do the same and summon phantasmal disenchanters. That results in permanent sustained boon removal. Necro cant compete with that. Plus mesmers have null field which is kind of like WoP + WoC combined but with a lower cooldown and longer duration.

Blindness, or to be more precise, well of darkness, isn’t the only possible choice: as things go I don’t use it at all, bringing blindness in battle with dagger offhand.
So I can blast an area with AoE and blind at the same time, and again tanking, a wonderful thing that only few eles can do. To make another metaphor: necros are more guardians than warriors, as eles are more warriors than guardians.

Not really sure what your trying to say here. But like ive said. Overwriting fire fields just for aoe blinds is a bad idea when you can get aoe blinds without ruining your aoe might combos. Also thief has black power which is a spammable smoke field that provides blinds for 4 seconds. It pulses twice as fast as wells aswell. Necro blinds are good but they are easily replaced by classes with better ways of applying blind.

(edited by spoj.9672)

Why to roll necro?

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Posted by: spoj.9672

spoj.9672

No it wont. Other classes have better condition and boon support…

Only in the aspect of “applying boons, removing conditions”. Necros dominate in the other end (remove boons, apply conditions), which is what is becoming more important. Removing those 25 stacks of Might (and Fury, and Stability) on an Aetherblade is far more important than applying three stacks your your team. Necros take that a bit further and convert them to conditions instead.

Mesmer boon strip is spammable. Necro boon corrupt is high cooldown. I think its pretty obvious that if boon removal is needed mesmer will be taken. And necro will be the unwanted class like it always has been. You can argue that they are slightly better off, but its still the bottom tier class and that wont change until some drastic changes are made to the class or game mechanics as a whole.

Why to roll necro?

in Necromancer

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spoj.9672

No it wont. Other classes have better condition and boon support…

Why to roll necro?

in Necromancer

Posted by: spoj.9672

spoj.9672

4) Are powernecros hard to grasp? Harder than most, for sure, and maybe this is the reason why we see so few good necros around. They require timing to use and traning (you’re going to tank with a light armored class and in the beginning, your brain will scream to pull out automatically).
But are necros selfish? Only if you use them with selfish build, as every zerk warr can be, as every guardian and ele and mes. But this isn’t the way necros should be or have to be.
Are there better class out there? It’s like to compare ice cream and chips: necros are necros and what they do is different from other classes, while being more than an asset to the team.

Necros are selfish in that they provide no group buffs or support other than condition debuffs, some high cooldown condition cleanse and high cooldown dark fields. Of which only dark fields are good and unique to the class. The debuffs are mostly useless in pve. The condition cleansing can be done better with lower cooldowns and less sacrifices from pretty much all classes.

The zerker builds for the classes you mentioned arent selfish at all. They all provide something useful to the group without sacrificing dps. Warrior has the best group buffs in the game with banners, empower allies and boons. Guardian has very good dps along with lots of defensive utility. Mesmer has an incredible range of utility. Ele has the highest damage in the game and can provide might, fury and vuln for the entire group.

You mentioned about corrupting boons on bosses. Thats pointless seeing as most of those bosses cleanse aswell so you may aswell just strip the boons which a mesmer can do more effectively. Not to mention those bosses reapply boons constantly so you need sustained boon removal which necro doesnt have. Mesmer does though.

Like i said the only useful thing necro has is dark fields. But the issue with them is you often dont want them because you dont want to be overwriting fire fields for might stacks. Why use dark fields for blinds when you can use ele LH to blast a fire field for aoe might and blind at the same time.

(edited by spoj.9672)

Best weapons for dungeons?

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Posted by: spoj.9672

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Most decent players run with just the one mainhand and 2 offhands. It stops you from getting locked into a weapon with a bad auto attack for 10 seconds. If they need a ranged option then they will take staff or scepter. GS is for very select situations where you need piercing.

Refiniments for a 30/0/10/30/0?

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Posted by: spoj.9672

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Everything has an aftercast. Which is why you should always check rotation time of auto attacks when doing calculations. Im still pretty sure it is just half the total final duration but I havent tested it.

worst dungeon

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Posted by: spoj.9672

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yay i broke the thread

worst dungeon

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Posted by: spoj.9672

spoj.9672

closes scary door

Asking a question that was proposed...

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Depends how optimistic you are with your theory.

worst dungeon

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Im slightly confused now. Is that post real? Or am i dreaming.

Just a question about Giganticus Lupicus

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spoj.9672

Those roses arent quite enough to buy lupi’s affection. He hugs you until you betray him and cut him too deeply.

Refiniments for a 30/0/10/30/0?

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0.75 seconds is the cast time. Thats ignoring after cast, im not sure how big the after cast is but I can assure you you do not repeat the auto every 0.75 seconds.

“vulnerability last 50% less time. " means the duration is halved. So if your vuln lasts 9 seconds its going to last 4.5 seconds on a boss with unshakeable. Go in game and I can assure you you wont be maintaining 18 stacks on a mob with unshakeable.

(edited by spoj.9672)

Refiniments for a 30/0/10/30/0?

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Unshakeable reduces vuln duration by half. You would need 100% condition duration for the vuln stacks to last 7 seconds. Which means you can only maintain about 14 stacks with axe 1 (im assuming axe auto hits once every second due to aftercast) and 100% condi duration. Without condition duration its more like 6 stacks. Which is awful.

Not only is that terrible damage because of axe auto but also because your sacrificing dps runes for condi duration and most likely taking giver weapons aswell.

So I soloed Lupicus with all classes..

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Well done OP, now I just need to be able to complete phase 1 reliably on my warrior.

Only 500 more attempts to go.

why do i have to be so bad

Ah, it’s somewhat reassuring that I’m not the only one feeling like this.

Locust problem? Always, Always, Always, save 100b for scream, Then if the locust dont die kite around with axe until next scream. If your having trouble with p1, transition will destroy your self esteem.

Doesnt really work when the locusts spawn out of range of 100b. But yeah best to just axe camp when you get a lot of locusts.

Best weapons for dungeons?

in Mesmer

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Its true you dont learn tells or encounters when sitting at range akitteng the fight though.

Refiniments for a 30/0/10/30/0?

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Maintaining 18 stacks on a boss? Im finding that hard to believe even with condition duration.

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Unshakeable

Why to roll necro?

in Necromancer

Posted by: spoj.9672

spoj.9672

Agree with bawi. You are overrating the necros utility way too much. And failing to notice there are far better options on other classes.

Why to roll necro?

in Necromancer

Posted by: spoj.9672

spoj.9672

If you have played other classes you would know exactly why those things arent that great. They can be done better by less selfish classes. Im sorry but lieing to the guy about the class is not the way to go. Yes necro is fun, but its selfish and not what hes looking for.

Also vuln stacking from necro is only good on single target trash mobs. On bosses its awful due to unshakeable.

worst dungeon

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Posted by: spoj.9672

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They both kill it fast. The burrow cant react fast enough to the dmg from fiery rush to die much faster than frostbow.

Why to roll necro?

in Necromancer

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spoj.9672

Im more interesting on how well necros do dungeons, how well can you support your team… not so interested in a selfish class :x

You dont want to role a necro then. Necro’s are the most selfish class in the game for dungeons. No unique utility, no buff contributions, poor vuln stacking, high cooldown condi removal. Theres really nothing special about them. And they have to be carried hard with buffs to be good.

Best weapons for dungeons?

in Mesmer

Posted by: spoj.9672

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Isnt standard mob armour 2600. Thats what I and everyone else I know uses for their calcs.

Strong Exp PvE Build

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Check my sig. Its what all the top dungeon guilds/players agree as the best build for necro. Even though necro isnt that great for dungeons and isnt ever taken for a serious run.

If you want something more casual im sure some people will start posting the alternatives shortly.

Asking a question that was proposed...

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Posted by: spoj.9672

spoj.9672

Force, then Accuracy if the weapon in question is 1H. 25 Might, Vuln, Fury, Empower Allies, Spotter, warrior banners, Frost Spirit, +10% damage potion, best food (power or precision and crit damage). Whatever utilities are worth a net increase in damage, i.e. signets and stuff like mantras for mesmers and minions for necros.

Hmm Ill rework my calcs with those conditions. But I wont be using minions due to how unreliable they are and WoS and SoS are better than minions.

Asking a question that was proposed...

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Necro’s issue is no cleave like you said and has to be carried heavily with buffs. The blinds and condition control is pretty nice for stuff like fractals but its not needed. But yeah dps is better than warrior without minions. Dont believe guang factored in weakening shroud, locust swarm and reapers touch into his calcs.

Asking a question that was proposed...

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What did you use? force + buffs but no stacks?

Asking a question that was proposed...

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Well im not sure exactly how guang calculated it. But with full buffs, night and slaying sigils, perception stacks. The dagger auto alone gets 11.6k dps.

Asking a question that was proposed...

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Just like to point out fully buffed necro is actually closer to 13k and thats without minions.

Type of players you get

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Check his imbued shaman duo. Full chainmail with awesome rainbow dye scheme.

You are scum like everyone else. It is WORN chainmail (except helmet and shoulders). Pff, you know nothing about the fashion!

I respect the uniqueness of it ofcourse. Its just not to my taste! Or anyone elses for that matter.

Reason for Time Gating Tokens?

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You can repeat for 20 tokens as many times as you want atleast. The biggest issue is no more karma in dungeons.

Why are AH builds frowned upon in PvE?

in Guardian

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Well some of mine were removed for derailing the thread.

Oh woops.

Condition Damage vs. Power-Which One?

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Ghastly claws is incredibly weak for its channel time. Its one of the weakest “burst” skills in the game. Yeah you can hit 15k over 3 seconds but thats pretty terrible lol.

Condition Damage vs. Power-Which One?

in Necromancer

Posted by: spoj.9672

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Ghastly claws doesnt hit hard at all.

Need help with Arah P4

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spoj.9672

They both have dredge! :p

No one cares what armor you wear..

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spoj.9672

You seem angry.

What to do when everything is done?

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This is a sad day. Modbot killed Brazils will to write.

Type of players you get

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spoj.9672

Check his imbued shaman duo. Full chainmail with awesome rainbow dye scheme.

Guardians in Dungeon Runs

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Its selfish no matter how you look at it. If you choose not to be more effective your selfishly slowing the group down. Whether the people in the group care or not is a different story but it doesnt change the fact that using bad gear is selfish.

30/25/0/0/15 vs 30/0/10/0/30

in Necromancer

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spoj.9672

Also the dps isnt simply just those 2 values ive calculated. Theres other things like barbed precision, weakening shroud, reapers touch, locust swarm and well of suffering coming into play aswell. Locust swarm is better on the 30/25 build and you can use reapers touch on cooldown if your not sitting in DS. Spam for weakening shroud every 15 seconds. It amounts to more dps from multiple sources. Obviously the burst of using wells and then going DS on the DS build is going to be higher, but its more restricted.

Selling dungeons is allowed

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Support deal with questions so they should be right. A twitter post isnt exactly credible.

Type of players you get

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Have you seen wethospu’s armour?

30/25/0/0/15 vs 30/0/10/0/30

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Considering his crit chance while trying to deal damage is 100%, I don’t see how that can be improved.

I said base crit chance. Drawn out fights are going to force you out of DS more and so you really dont want to screw your dps outside of DS too much.

30/25/0/0/15 vs 30/0/10/0/30

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His build produces less dps than the DS build I was checking seeing as he uses might duration runes and has a few differences. Yes his build produces more solo might and vuln but when doing solo content the thing that is most important is crit chance and during solo encounters the fights last longer so you want high base crit chance.

Necromancer Greatsword. Want?

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Really no thank you to hammer. Sword or greatsword are both weapons id love to have on necro.

Dungeon Instance flow, and intended gameplay.

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Except us, but ok.

30/25/0/0/15 vs 30/0/10/0/30

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I dont use lich form. I run flesh golem (which I havent bothered to calc the dps for because of how often it dies) or plague if I need the blind/stability. If I get dredge fractal ill use lich for the dredge power suit/ ice elemental though.

I havent tested it but isnt Lich less dps than dagger anyway?

30/25/0/0/15 vs 30/0/10/0/30

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Assuming you dont get hit. And my calcs were with the minor 5% more dmg above 50% lifeforce so your dps with lifeblast would drop a bit when you get below 50%. That is admittedly pretty good uptime regardless. Its still less reliable than just learning to dodge and meleeing with dagger (which provides more dps). But I should probably just leave it there, because thats just personal beliefs and preferences again.

Looking for cut scene vids of Dungeons

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Brazil did this for AC and then stopped. Get on it Brazil!

What to do when everything is done?

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There is no place we can call safe now. Its all over, its all over.

30/25/0/0/15 vs 30/0/10/0/30

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Ok so i recalced the DS build with bloodlust and sweet and spicy butternut squash soup (100 power 10 crit dmg).

The dagger dps drops to 10941.3185 dps and life blast goes up to 11286.328 dps (still less than dagger dps on my build). Which considering how little you can consistantly life blast is a pretty poor idea. The build relies way too much on remaining in DS for damage which is far more difficult than it is to maintain melee distance lol.

30/25/0/0/15 vs 30/0/10/0/30

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You misread my post. 88% crit chance is dagger with full banners buffs and fury on the DS build… The DS build fully buffed has 88% crit chance out of DS if you have perception and precision food. Dagger build has 96%. I included all the same buffs in both builds calculations… The displayed crit chance can go over 100% but you still get the odd non crit which means actual crit chance is never actually 100% or more….

I already factored in axe training to lifeblast on the DS build and the advantage was not dropped it was minimised. Without axe mastery you have a total damage modifier of 2.095 which is less than the dagger build. When you include axe training it goes up to 2.304 which is higher than the dagger build with 4 conditions. Life blast is too slow to be higher dps than dagger. Ill redo lifeblast calcs with bloodlust and different food seeing as the build is about maximising DS damage and screwing the rest of your dmg.

(edited by spoj.9672)