Guild Wars 2

People can use whatever they want. I honestly dont mind. But ive given the maths to prove my build achieves higher dps and is therefore better. Thats all I care about, its not my concern whether players are good enough to use it or not. If they want to do as much damage as possible then surely they should be motivated to improve so they can use it effectively.

People who die too easily just need to improve. They arent going to be dieing much less sitting at 600 range. I would of loved to be told to go melee beserker in my first dungeons, I wouldnt of developed so many bad habits if I had learnt the hard way. Beserker necro actually feels like one of the safest zerker classes imo, the high base hp and DS makes it very easy to escape to a safe distance when things get hairy or just absorb hits without going down. Thats my belief on the subject though. Anyway, ill try and get some arah footage this weekend to prove how close you can get with good groups.

edit: For fractals I take a scepter for the extra aoe and the option to back out at range a bit. The guys in my guild who do fractals 70+ scale maximise damage as much as possible because thats the only way to go that high up. They use to run with a necro who ran a hybrid build (i believe) because that has more aoe. But really its player skill which matters in fractals that high.

Also just worked out Lifeblast dps. On my build you get this:

1 Life blast in 1.3 seconds
Skill Coeff = 1.000, 1.400

base damage = 1472.692, 2061.769
damage with modifiers = 3179.642, 4451.359
average damage = 8307.769, 11630.511

DPS = 6390.592 DPS, 8946.547 DPS (Under 600 units)

Then for the DS build assuming axe training and 100% crit chance (in game its actually capped at something like 99%) you get the following numbers:

base damage = 1472.692, 2061.769
damage with modifiers = 3393.082, 4750.316
average damage = 9602.422, 13443.394

DPS = 7386.478 DPS, 10341.072 DPS (Under 600 units)

Which isnt too bad compared to dagger. You could boost lifeblast up a bit more with bloodlust instead of perception in the DS build but then you lose even more dps when using dagger. Considering DS up time, I still dont regard it as worth using. But i guess I can admit that the DS build isnt too bad.

I worked out dagger dps for 30/10/0/0/30 and it comes out as 11291.482 dps when fully buffed. This is with a crit chance of 88% which means deathly perception is pretty much wasted. Its not far behind the dagger build when fully buffed but its still less and any more than 4 conditions on the dagger build and the gap is increased further.

Also in pugs you arent going to have 88% crit chance. Dagger build has much better crit chance when solo and the potential to increase solo crit chance with fury every 10 seconds. So yeah dagger is pretty clearly better on my build for both pugs and organised groups. In organised groups it would be a complete waste to take deathly perception even on a DS build.

Safest way is to dodge backwards once when he starts the tell and then use sword block as you run back towards him. If you dont have the block off cd you dodge back and then dodge forwards or you dodge back and then ww forwards.

If you can get him on the wall for phase 3 and stay inside his circle he wont do the barrage attack which is pretty annoying for classes without reflect. Classes with reflects stay outside the circle so they can reflect the barrage. Max melee range is too far out though, you will get domed at that distance.

Someone donate a tooth of frostfang to a poor elitist in hopeless poverty.

Ill try and get some arah footage or something this weekend.

Tobbygnome.6793:

For pugs though, you won’t always get banners, 100% fury uptime (50% at min) and 25 vuln, would you agree that Dagger builds DPS relies more on an organized group?

Not really, necro has pretty good dps without buffs compared to other classes. In a pug you can easily hit 4-5k+ with final dagger hit with a few conditions on foe.

Heres some stuff copied straight from my notepad:

Beserker, Scholar Runes, Night Sigil, Slaying Sigil, Powerful Potion, Curry Butternut Squash Soup, Perception, 4 conditions, Signet of Spite, Banner of Strength, Banner of Discipline, Empower Allies, 25 Might, 25 Vuln, Fury

Necro damage modifiers – 10%, 10%, 10%, 10%, 2% (per condi), 20% (< 50% hp) = 1.1 * 1.1 * 1.1 * 1.1 * 1.02^4 * 1.09 * 1.25 = 2.159

Power = 916 + 1238 + 300 + 180 + 170 + 150 + 875 = 2634 (+ 170 + 150 + 875) = 3829
Precision = 916 + 734 + 250 + 170 + 250 + 100 = 1900 (+ 170 + 250 + 100) = 2420
Crit Chance = 76% (+ 20%) = 96%
Crit Damage = 93% (+ 15% + 10%) = 118%
Condition Damage = 250 (+ 170 + 875) = 1295
Condition Duration = 30%
Bleed (1 stack) = 107.25 DPS

Dagger weapon dmg = (970 + 1030)/2 = 1000
5 chains in 10 seconds

Skill Coeff = 0.451, 0.701, 1.201

base damage = (2x)664.184, 1032.357, 1768.703
damage with modifiers = (2x)1433.973, 2228.859, 3818.630
average damage = (2x)3746.685, 5823.563, 9977.316

1 Chain = 23294.249

DPS = (23294.249 * 5)/10 = 11647.1245 DPS

You wont reach 11k dps in reality. Its theoretical dps with full buffs and optimum conditions. But ive hit close to 9k on final strike of dagger in coe plenty of times.

Dagger hits 4 times. Double strike (dagger 1.1) hits 3.7k twice fully buffed roughly. Ill post the math if you want.

Yeah if I was ever going to go far into SR for a power build Id use 30/15/0/0/25 so you have fury and weakening shroud. But you lose locust swarm trait which increases dps but quite a nice margin in shorter fights.

And you have less dps when doing that because of your low crit chance lol. My build has 96% crit chance with fury, banner of disc, food and perception stacks. The modifiers from target the weak + crit chance is better than 15% crit damage and a bugged minor.

The dagger chain fully buffed up hits for (2x)3.7k, 5.8k and then 10k roughly.

Ill check dagger dps with the DS build assuming the 25 SR minor works correctly and see how it compares 2morrow.

DS hits about once per 1.3 seconds so depending how hard you hit its dramaticly lower than dagger which hits 4 times in 2 seconds. Dagger auto when full buffed with my build is about 11.6k dps so you would have to hit life blasts over 15k to out dps dagger alone. Ill run the actual numbers of a fully buffed lifeblast later tonight to see if thats possible.

I love story time with Brazil.

Im just a lazy englishman. And ofc bacon is good if I can be bothered to fry some. But if im doing that I may aswell have fried eggs and bacon. ;d

Well vuln stacking on bosses is very hard to maintain due to unshakeable. On regular mobs focus 4 maintains 12 stacks of vuln pretty much permanently, on bosses its far from sustained but its going to be much better vuln stacking than lifeblasting alone. Necro isnt really known for being good at vuln. Going by the wiki, life blast would maintain about 6-8 vuln stacks on bosses which actually isnt too bad but you would be doing pretty awful dps to maintain a 6% boost. Something which other classes can do better without ruining their own dps to do it.

Ive been running the numbers recently to see potential dps in a fully buffed up environment with perfect conditions and have come to a value of 13.4k dps and thats when ignoring flesh golem, shadow fiend and blood fiend (only 2 utilities were used, WoS and signet of spite).

Compared to fully buffed staff ele (14k dps) and LH ele (16k dps) thats pretty kitteng good considering they are rated the highest dps builds atm. These are assuming banners, empower allies, food, slaying pots, night and slaying sigils, sigil stacks, scholar runes, might, fury and vuln.

trying to give him the flowers is painful

And here I just slap some ham or something in some bread and im done. xD

How much do you put in your sammiches? O_o

Do laundry while killing belka instead :p

The arguement is that 30/10/0/0/30 is better for aoe because of the capped 99% crit chance in DS to make your wells, locust swarm and life transfer crit constistantly with more crit damage. But the most notible encounters of every dungeon are bosses which are single target and will knock you out of DS so much that you will lose way too much dps. Like ive said already lifeblast isnt good dps anway, its ok when it hits multiple targets but if it doesnt its a massive waste of a skill.

The encounters where you need to aoe trash down can be done with 30/25/0/0/15 with pretty much the same effect, most hits crit and the mobs should be dead shortly after the aoe combo ends. So there is really no point in maxing efficiency for the less common aoe situations which are brief enough with the better single target dps build.

Meh it was more of a response to the post you quoted. I was just keeping the posts in order by replying to you instead. I agree, torment on an auto wouldnt be op as plenty of auto attacks already have bleed/burning/poison.

I did that on one of my first attempts. I just pulled it away and killed it then made sure i never pulled abom that close or let him knock me in that direction when he enrages.

Sometimes the closest drake is the champ drake. So i never kill them. You’ve got plenty of space between them and the inq to kill the abom.

It only works when the mark is triggered. Its one of the biggest complaints I have about necro finishers.

Masochist :O

Thats not where i afk range her from! ;d

Most likely yes. You can still use DS as a ranged option in both build. Mine is less reliant on DS for dps so you can do both without losing much effectiveness. Even without fulls buffs dagger hits pretty hard and you can take an axe or a scepter with the focus for a ranged option if you really want to (Ive been taking d/w and scepter focus for fractals because of the extra aoe it provides and bleeds ticking for 60+ isnt that bad for a full zerker build).

Thing to note, both builds are going to hit very hard when full buffed but the dps lifeblast provides is really not that impressive due to the 1 second cast time + aftercast.

Id definately stick with 30/25/0/0/15 for pugs because of the warhorn trait and the better reliable solo dps. Its the build i will be using to try and beat the current lupi solo with necro. The builds that others used for lupi were 30/15/0/0/25 (for DS cd which results in higher fury uptime) and 30/20/0/0/20 which holds the current record of 11.35(DS cd and locust swarm trait). But you should just try playing around with things while leveling and have fun.

I meant the bone wall close to the deadeye. Thats where you get ooc if you do it semi legit melee and run out to heal up and remove burn. It makes her reset back to original position, all the barrels stop burning and she stops teleporting around (but her hp doesnt regen). When I just ran to the spot and ranged immediately she always started teleporting, but I could be slightly wrong in how you prevent her from doing that. :P

You have to reset belka b4 you can afk range her though (run back to the bone wall so it collapses). Otherwise she teleports around.

Sepreh.5924:

In order to have the highest possible dps, people use the 30,25,0,0,15 build with wh5 and dagger auto. If you have team support (vigor, aegis) and can dodge, this build will do a ton of damage. Problem is you are more vulnerable because you are in melee so if you down or have to jump out to heal, that’s a loss of dos

The damage advantage of melee over range is so large that even dodging every time you have enough endurance and healing fairly regularly results in faster kill times. The whole idea that dodging reduces dps uptime and is a reason to use ranged is completely wrong. Yes dodging and healing reduces your dps slightly but not nearly enough to make ranging better dps. Necro lich form is probably the closest to melee dps you can get while being ranged.

A DS focused build is a gimmicky fun build. Nothing more. Its poor dps and if you are hit you are locked out of DS with even lower dps because of low base crit chance.

Also nemesis is a good theorycrafter but he doesnt run in optimized groups and is very biased towards necro. I love the class for fun but Im a player that likes being efficient and as useful as possible so I will try and maximise efficiency in every class I play, including necro. Which means Ive settled on my dagger build, which has been proven in the dungeon forums to be better dps than the other alternative power builds.

@knb
The dagger build has access to 5 seconds of fury every 10 seconds. Also ideally your group should have a warrior, ranger or ele to provide fury.

Watch wethospu’s p2 solo video. He doesnt show how to clear the aboms and any extra trash b4 lupi though.

Linguistically Inept.6583:

Andele.1306:

Heartlust.6140:

Torment on a #1 skill seems horriby overpowered.

Because its not like bleeds or burning on 1 skill chains exist~

…
only on winds of chaos? 1s burning (or maybe vuln; yay randomness)…

… but i dont see how torment on AA chain is OP

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Sever_Artery
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Gash

Wouldnt really be any more op than warrior sword. Just lower the duration and its balanced.

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Locust_Swarm

nekretaal.6485:

3. For Pve, your best theoretical DPS is Dagger Warhorn with all minions, but that build requires you to melee in light armor with little protection.

Slightly incorrect. The highest dps build is my build linked in my sig with flesh golem, shadow fiend and blood fiend. Other utilities remain Well of suffering and signet of spite. This is assuming minions dont die and reliably hit the target consistantly and you are fully buffed.

It wasnt funny :P

I refuse to believe that!

press the spacebar

These are empty to words though!

You got me!

I dont pay attention to names, hes known as balth as far as im concerned.

Have to fall asleep killing grenth first though

Haha good idea.

It actually beats ranger, warrior and engi dps when fully buffed and under optimal conditions (flesh golem isnt even needed to out dps those classes). But those classes provide group buffs to make up for it. I suspect it beats guardian aswell but I havent compared them yet. And obviously nothing beats warriors solo dps because of the easy access self buffs they have.

Or the ooze. Sit on the coral and you dont have to worry about dodging attacks or anything.

Refer to the build in my sig for a high dps build. DS is your main form of defense and seeing as you dont sit in DS you should always have full lifeforce as a safety net (you also gain it back very fast if you have to tank a bit hit). If you need more defense you can take some energy sigils in your offhands. Or take well of darkness for some aoe blinds.

Story isnt difficult, it just takes a long time to complete. I would just grab some pugs to fill out the group. Theres no real need to be picky for a storymode which is heavily timegated.

Yeah 2 eles would be ideal.

If only staff ele wasnt so boring.