no comments on some stats being profession specific? i would think that would effect dungeon meta maxers a lot.
Those stats are hardly relevant. And half of them are getting implemented baseline. Thats a buff to most builds.
well its not clear exactly what they mean with the profession attributes, if its like thieves get 150 more precision that might be huge, but that would seem odd.
hopefully they explain that better today.
Profession attribute are those attributes only a single profession has and (except for the ranger one) only that profession has any use of that attribute. They are always in the fifth trait line:
Ele: Atunement cd reduction
Warrior: Burst skill damage increase
Thief: steal cd reduction
Guardian: virtue recharge rate
Engi: Toolbelt recharge rate
Ranger: Pet attribute bonus
Mesmer: Shatter Skill recharge rate
Necromancer: Life force pool increase
This.
Except it should be Warrior: Burst skill cooldown reduction.
Might be something as simple as an f2 skill in addition to DS on f1. Or something to do with upkeep using lifeforce. Maybe cooldown reduction on utilities but they use lifeforce instead. :P
Its impossible for them to not go over them. Doesnt mean the line will suddenly become good. But they are getting a big pass over. Im sensing thats where we are misunderstanding each other.
I fully understand they will consolidate traits. That does not mean that they are buffing along the way.
Yeah like i said we were misunderstanding each other. Although the consolidation could result in some small buffs.
Well yeah that could be a reason. But thats purely speculation. We dont know exactly where things are being moved. I dont think thats a good reason as it will prevent D/F from improving to catch up with staff.
PS. I believe we are getting shown every trait for every class in the livestream tomorrow. So that should be fun.
Its impossible for them to not go over them. Doesnt mean the line will suddenly become good. But they are getting a big pass over. Im sensing thats where we are misunderstanding each other.
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Fresh Air is way too powerful to be anywhere else but Grand Master tier
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Not really. If there’s no way to have nothing but full investment in the selected traitlines, there’s no need to allocate the most powerful effects at top tiers.
They can easily rearrange traits between tiers and prevent certain combinations from being possible without worrying on how powerful each isolated effect is.
This. With the current idea of only being able to fully invest in each line. It really make no difference what tier the traits are and how powerful they are. The only important thing is what other 2 traits they place in that tier. You could move fresh air into adept if it made more sense with comparitive choices and allowed the preservation of more builds. Obviously they are going to keep traits of a similar level in the same tier. But it doesnt matter as much as it did before. Because theres no partial investments into lines.
They are getting a massive pass over because they are being combined and cut down into 9 traits total per line. Those example traits looked the same because they were basically all the current water traits combined together or the good ones left alone.
Yes but consume conditions isnt tagged as any type of skill currently. Same with plague form and lich form. The change is to give them a tag so they can be effected by those traits in addition to utility skills.
Well in some instances where glassy people would have defensive stats from traits they might be glassier. But for others where they didnt have any from traits they should be tankier. Thanks to the baseline stat increases.
But just being able to use maxed out trait lines in spite, curses and soul reaping will be a pretty big change for damage orientated builds
Won’t Spite/Curses/Blood Magic be the best dps for PvE since they’re removing stats from trait lines? I mean, no point going into Soul Reaping with that system. And Blood Magic has Well cooldown reduction.
Thats a possible variation. Depends how traits get shifted and combined. You can look at it two ways if we assume 66006. DS build getting a huge buff inside and outside DS. Dagger build getting a small buff and the ability to do some extra stuff with DS.
Its all speculation at this point. Either way its pretty exciting to think about. :>
Another pretty major advantage to the new system. Necro can now trait for supportive and defensive stuff without losing all their damage. Currently investing in blood or death magic completely tanks your damage. With the new system that wont be as big of an issue. You wont lose any stats to gain defensive traits.
Won’t every other class get the same advantage? You could literally have fresh air eles with maxed out water and arcane lines.
Other classes didnt lose out as much as necro by going into those defensive trees. They either had more damage mod traits in those lines to make up the difference. Or those traits were adept or in offensive lines. Or on utilities and weapons. Necro struggles pretty hard to build anything meaningful other than damage. You have to fully invest in a defensive line whereas other classes only invest in them partially.
Another pretty major advantage to the new system. Necro can now trait for supportive and defensive stuff without losing all their damage. Currently investing in blood or death magic completely tanks your damage. With the new system that wont be as big of an issue. You wont lose any stats to gain defensive traits.
Just use fast casting or semi fast casting and you shouldnt have much of an issue once you get used to it.
Overall these changes are good for the game. Its going to shake things up a lot for all classes and its going to be less restrictive because you no longer have to way in stat investment verses trait choice. You simply go for the traits you want.
Base necro will still be bad for PvE until we get finishers and utility reworks. But just being able to use maxed out trait lines in spite, curses and soul reaping will be a pretty big change for damage orientated builds. And combining and reducing the total number of traits will most likely improve blood magic.
Im actually very optimistic about specialisations now. Even with no major improvements this is a huge shake up to the PvE meta and a refreshing improvement to the build system. It only nerfs builds that invested in more than 3 lines currently (staff ele is about the only one that will be noticeably effected).
It looks like the classes that previously didnt invest in power/prec/ferocity lines in their meta builds will get an overall buff to stats. And the others will just get a bit more freedom without having to worry about stat distribution. I really like the change. My only concern is how well they combine and organise the traits.
It looks like from the water magic example it has preserved eles current water magic using builds quite nicely. The only exception is you can no longer invest 2 points just for vital striking on a staff build. Also looks like staff ele might be the only meta build that suffers in a meaningful way because it invests in 4/5 lines. Most builds dont invest in more than 3 traitlines. So they will remain unchanged/buffed.
Dont remember the exact after cast for ghastly claws. But with axe training and assuming the full channel + after cast is 2.5 seconds (2.25 channel). Dagger still comes out ahead. If you use a 0.1 sec aftercast they are equal. Anything higher and dagger auto is stronger.
But axe 2 has really good lifeforce generation. Its only merit.
In all the seriousness. The only reason i havent completely given up and abandoned the class is because i like the aesthetic. The dark green and black smoke effects and the dark magic theme is appealing. Shame the class sucks.
Molten Facility fractal – At the very start after you talk to Rox. If you use AOE and do too much damage so you kill the molten dredge before they finish spawning you will not get credit for every enemy. Which will result in an incomplete progress bar. Which means the drill wont trigger. And seeing as no new molten alliance will spawn you will have to restart the fractal.
Basically dont kill the molten alliance at the portal too fast or before the progress bar appears. We were running 5 eles for the lols when we discovered this bug. :P
I recall that working really well for the spider queen. Generally speaking though, they may still use skills, but not necessarily to their full effect.
LoS was just a minor aspect of my post though.
That was intended. The spider queen previously only used the poison on ranged enemies. Just like many bosses have range checks for certain attacks. The weakness auto attack and the immob spit both still hit in the corner. And this could still wipe groups if they didnt dodge. There was no complete disabling of the boss. Because the spider queen didnt use the poison in the corner she would auto attack more frequently. And if you were immobed from the spit you couldnt dodge it. Which meant you got weakness on you so less damage and you would take some pretty nasty damage from the attack aswell. It wasnt as faceroll as many people made it seem. If it seemed like it in a pug then you got carried.
Anyway for complete unrestricted records then yeah it shouldnt matter. Most people dont want to abuse the game that far though. And in fact i dont know a single boss fight that is faster when you completely break it with a safespot. So its pointless even in an unrestricted record.
The only situation where more dps becomes a much easier tactic is in content that can literally be blown up (looking at you AC/CM) For content like Lupi, not so much. Don’t believe me, take a look at this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8qc-h49HeqU
Seems you can still have a decent kill time and make it so you don’t have to avoid everything.
Well, reflect is OP, after all.
Reflect damage had very little contribution to that time. :P
It was a contributing factor. Was it the only contributing factor? Of course not, but it helps alot.
It helps a lot usually. In that video it didnt. Most of that phase 2 burst was from unloading AOE during the reflect. The reflect damage itself was pretty insignificant.
The amount of good suggestions on the necro subforum is pretty insane. And that quality has been going on for at least the last year and a half. Unfortunately none of those suggestions ever get implemented.
Although greatsword was the most commonly asked for weapon. So maybe we will see a few more community suggestions in the specialisation. Still waiting on those blast finishers though….
The only situation where more dps becomes a much easier tactic is in content that can literally be blown up (looking at you AC/CM) For content like Lupi, not so much. Don’t believe me, take a look at this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8qc-h49HeqU
Seems you can still have a decent kill time and make it so you don’t have to avoid everything.
Well, reflect is OP, after all.
Reflect damage had very little contribution to that time. :P
Why dont you just be honest about what you want. Because most of the time it is about anti zerk meta in some form. Otherwise you wouldnt be discussing it.
I think the question here is “why does it matter that necro is the worst at PvE?”. We’re not terrible to the point where it prevents you from completing dungeons. In fact, the only playstyle where we have no place is speedruns, which exclude half the classes anyway. Would it be nice if necros had more team utility? Definitely. Is it game-breakingly bad? I’d say no.
Because there is a huge gap between necros and the rest. 6/8 classes are used in records. Engi is very occasionally used. Ranger has been used in some records in the past and has the necessary tools to be wanted in a group. So you could say 7/8 classes have a place in speedruns and are very desirable for group content.
Necro simply has nothing, its not welcome in casual groups, its not welcome in speedruns. Its literally only welcome in groups that dont care at all but even some of those groups will kick a necro because it doesnt bring anything to the table. We cant even properly blast combo fields. The class is completely anti group friendly. Thats not acceptable for an MMO.
Is it game breakingly bad? No. Is it bad to the point that there is massive exclusion of the class? Yes. Thats not something you want especially when theres a mass of new players coming into the game. Its not pleasant choosing a class then finding out months later you arent welcome in many groups. Even more so if you are interested in speedruns and casual meta groups.
Yep. If we were built and designed like all the other classes and had DS as it is. We would be in a decent position. Anet used DS as an excuse not to give us so many things. And look where it has gotten us.
ok ignore the numbers, thats fine, because its even worse when you look at how you describe for pve.
a highly skilled person with 100% toughness cannot survive better than a person with 100% power.
they can make more mistakes, but a highly skilled person does not make that many mistakes. toughness, vitality give no benefit for skillfull play. thats why the more skill full you get, the less useful the stats are.
You cannot say that this gearset + build is not incredibly effective at doing just that.
The whole point of the gear in the hands of a skilled or unskilled player is that you dont need to dodge. Using the skill arguement is irrelevant. Another way to look at it is that the gear is effective at making mistakes more forgiving.
Obviously if you want to be faster, you are skilled and intend to dodge then it makes no sense to use nomads because you would not get anything out of it. But thats going for a different goal. Nomads would obviously be ineffective at that particular goal.
afking is not skillfull play.
making mistakes more forgiving is not a playstyle, it is how good you are at a playstyle.
Like i said many times, if the goal of stat distributions is to adjust difficulty, that would be much more effeciently achieved with a totally different system.
also, berserker is not the hardest set to play. a midrange stat set is probably harder to play, because killing fast does in fact eliminate mechanics, risk, and decrease oppurtunity to make mistakes.
for setting difficulty the stat sets are all over the place, and different for different professions, it also generates difficulties balancing content and normalizing difficulty.
I never said it was skillfull play. Im just saying the stat combo is effective at achieving that goal. Id argue this is a good system to have as a difficulty slider. And as Nike has mentioned. I much prefer a system where diversity comes from traits, runes, sigils and utilities. I dont want to be forced to craft multiple ascended sets for multiple encounters.
Also you keep asking why do we have stat customization. We keep saying we agree it doesnt make much sense. But its too late. Removing it will probably cause huge backlashes so thats not an option. And the changes you are suggesting will only make things worse and shift the game into having less diversity for the average player (because they wont have multiple sets of gear and trait swapping would be less impactful). I really dont see how this is in any way, shape or form a good idea.
ok ignore the numbers, thats fine, because its even worse when you look at how you describe for pve.
a highly skilled person with 100% toughness cannot survive better than a person with 100% power.
they can make more mistakes, but a highly skilled person does not make that many mistakes. toughness, vitality give no benefit for skillfull play. thats why the more skill full you get, the less useful the stats are.
You cannot say that this gearset + build is not incredibly effective at doing just that.
The whole point of the gear in the hands of a skilled or unskilled player is that you dont need to dodge. Using the skill arguement is irrelevant. Another way to look at it is that the gear is effective at making mistakes more forgiving.
Obviously if you want to be faster, you are skilled and intend to dodge then it makes no sense to use nomads because you would not get anything out of it. But thats going for a different goal. Nomads would obviously be ineffective at that particular goal.
You still havent explained how you got those numbers though. And like i said whatever numeric comparison you give is meaningless. Actual gameplay effectiveness is what matters. It doesnt matter if toughness gives you really poor damage reduction returns compared to damage gain from power. If toughness allows you to survive encounters with much greater ease then it is effective at that job. You cant really compare this in any meaningful way.
@Phys
How are you getting these numbers? Sounds like you have just made some up. Without context they mean nothing.
Effectiveness is measured by its intended purpose. So comparing them like that means nothing. Nomads is incredibly effective at faceroll afking content. Berserkers isnt. Berserkers is incredibly effective at maximising direct damage. Nomads isnt. Do you see my point? It depends on what you as a player set your goal as. Most people value speed which is why berserker is popular and other gearsets are excluded. This is a player goal issue, not a balance issue. Its also the fault of easy content, With harder content less people will go for the extremes because the chance of failure is higher. But that is unrelated to stat balance.
And even if you can compare with those numbers its not important. Whats important is a stat combos ability to do its job. And berserker is no better than nomads at doing its job. In fact i would say nomads is better at doing its job because theres almost no chance of failure. Obviously some stat combos are less effective because they are poorly designed and have no synergy. But the only real comparison is the two extremes nomads vs berserker and how well they do their job.
