Guild Wars 2

Looks like it should be PvP/PvE split then. No reason to nerf LH in PvE.

Apparently it it was confirmed to be a condition. But i expect it will be like fear. So it will still be affected by defiance. Basically this means fear and taunt can both be stunbroken or condi cleansed.

There are still other traits in curses which power builds want. All 3 minors for example. Weakening shroud is good for any build although its better without the ICD for power builds. Chilling darkness is also good. And will be better with the new bitter chill trait (which is why i suggest moving bitter chill to curses grandmaster and giving +10% damage to chilled foes).

Basically the main issue with curses is the lack of a power option in the grandmaster slot. And the fact that all 3 condi grandmasters compete with each other while the other tiers dont have much choice. One of them needs to move somewhere else. The alternative grandmaster can be anything power related. Reworked Withering Precision or improved Bitter Chill are both good solutions.

You got infracted most likely. It will go down eventually. I had 30 minute flood control about 6 months back. And i know someone who had 1 hour flood control over a year ago. Kind of miraculous to get that much flood control without being perma banned. :P

Im a little confused with this post. Some of the stuff you listed is exactly what what was shown on the stream. Can you cut that stuff out and only list the things you are suggesting changes for.

The combo field system is a major part of the game. Not having access to finishers is a serious problem for Necro. If we arent getting real unique utility of our own. Atleast allow us to interact with other players fields to a certain degree.

Personal opinions aside. The entire necro community has been suggesting adding more finishers for the last 2 years. Specifically blast and projectile finishers on weapons. But they could also be added through traits. Weakening Shroud is a good old example. And the new Spiteful Spirit is another perfect oppotunity. Especially since its a grandmaster. Also 100% projectile on Lifeblast through one of the lifeblast traits would be nice.

Common suggested weapon finishers are warhorn 4, axe 3, dagger 5 for blasts. Then staff 1 (make it 100%), focus 4, dagger 4 for projectile finishers. And axe 2 for whirl. Obviously adding all of these would be a bit much. But it would be a huge step forward if we could get 1 or 2 of them in addition to fixing staff 1 to be 100%.

Sagat.3285:

spoj.9672:

Specialists gather and collate the important details and relay it directly to the devs. His intention is fine. The only issue is everyone is posting different suggestions. So he still has to pick out and summarise them in the report. :P

To what extent? Necro suggestions have been flowing since launch, ranger pet passive problem was directly answered by a dev,same for thief after cast on bundle usage,hobosacks were a graphic discussion all those threads..Not saying it’s useless but if a report is our bridge I’m worried about the arrival of the package. Most suggestions here so far are to adjust what was presented to us which will simply recreate the gap between us and other classes that was widened, nothing to the core problems.

Something like that deserves more than someone collecting info for a chance of rework, I do appreciate his intentions tough. If we make it I just hope I don’t move to another game by then or forget I enjoyed this class. Also again what’s the extent of the feedback??

I think you are misunderstanding the purposes of specialists. They just help with summarising the forums and point out the parts which are most important to the players. But i expect the Devs will read the full threads for this stuff because its important and they asked specifically for feedback.

Also dont worry how its getting sent to them, the dungeon & fractal specialist is reporting balance suggestions aswell. More from a PvE perspective obviously. Specific reports from specialists makes me more hopeful than if we were just relying on the Devs to read the forums themselves without summarys. And you cant do anything but give feedback so its pointless concerning yourself with the issue.

Specialists gather and collate the important details and relay it directly to the devs. His intention is fine. The only issue is everyone is posting different suggestions. So he still has to pick out and summarise them in the report. :P

Yeah i agree Spiteful Removal is fine. Siphoned Power and Deaths Embrace arent though. They may aswell be changed to 60 power on foes below 50% and 5% damage to foes below 33%. Because thats exactly what they do with those ICD’s and duruations. They should be stronger when you attack more under those thresholds. And they certainly shouldnt be so static.

Oh Rising. Something ive left out in all my Necro feedback posts. I mentioned the ICD of siphoned power is limiting it. That is also true of Deaths Embrace. Which is also limited by the 33% health threshold. The ICD on deaths embrace is especially bad in PvE because of vuln duration reduction. 5 stacks of vuln for 2.5/5 seconds on a 5 second internal cooldown when a mob is below 33% hp. Why so many restrictions?!?!

I didnt even notice the ICD on Deaths Embrace. And yes its completely true. The new minors for spite are good conceptually. But the Internal cooldowns make them bad. And the health threshold should be no lower than 50%. I dont even like that they have thresholds in the first place.

Anubis.7058:

1. Wouldnt Bitter Chill have more synergy (and able to stay in Spite) if Death Shiver caused Chill?

2. Isnt it flat out bad that Siphoned power relies mostly on the enemy?

3. Why not make Spiteful Spirit actual GW1 Spiteful Spirit? Enemies that attack (you) deal damage around them (and to themselves), current proposed one just encourages discarding DS for flashing it.

4. Why, doesnt that just make both a option? Also wouldnt something like Death Perception make a good Curse GM? Both helps with DS and power.

5. Isnt the point of necro not to have many boons, especially not active defense, so vigor goes against that.

6. DM (despite the fact that minors for both DM and BM should be universal, not balanced for minions) is still a minion mostly line, makes sense to have 2 minion GMs, just like it makes sense to have 2 direct damage in spite and 2 health/healing/siphon related in BM.

7. Wouldnt multiple vampiric traits allow for better specialization? Maybe all 3 as grandmaster slot, thus either minions siphon, crits siphon for some defense (or give a shield or something) and some sort of tank siphoning/indirect team support siphon?

8. The idea of condi transfer life blast, why not for Soul Reaping GMs to be all life blast versions (current Renewing blast is a cool idea, even if not very practical), so like: Healing AoE thingy Guard tome like “blast”, Underwater Life Blast or “Dhuumfire Blast” as meaningful options for SR?

1. I would assume that would be too much chill. And with that change you may aswell just combine both traits together. If bitter chill stays as it is regardless of whether its moved or not its a good trait that synergised with all sources of chill. Deathly shiver provides DS builds a good source of vuln without having to spec for chill. So i think thats best to leave it as it is.

2. The new version gives you might when you hit an enemy under 50% hp. Thats pretty good. The only problem is its 2 seconds of might for 5 seconds with a 5 second internal cooldown. So you can only get 2 stacks max. Or 4 seconds briefly if you stack boon duration. Thats terrible numbers wise. But the trait itself is a huge improvement to old siphoned power.

3. Old spiteful spirit was almost like that but it was retal. This version still gives retal but adds an AOE damage portion. I know old SS was really good in gw1. But i think we need to get away from that idea. You cant do things like 55hp SS necro in gw2. So
making it a blast on DS entry would be better in gw2.

5. Yes. But this is a major fault that holds the class back. We need atleast a few things to rectify the problem. Reflects only negate a certain type of attack so i think thats ok. And i believe all classes should have some way of getting extra dodges through traits or weapons. Necro doesnt have any currently apart from using runes/sigils/food.

Dont really have an answer for your other points. Most of them dont make sense to me and would make the traits messier.

OlliX.1705:

spoj.9672:

In essence. The feeling of flashing DS and getting benefits every time you do so is hurt majorly by the return of ICD on DS entry traits. In addition we have lost damage traits and a viable grandmaster curses trait. This makes dagger power necro undesirable.

I’m dreaming of a GW2 where I can flash Death Shroud for fury, vuln and a 100% crit enfeeble+unholy feast… preferably with blast finishers on both.

All we need is to get those cooldowns off weakening shroud and spiteful spirit, get some blast finishers on them and hopefully a useful grandmaster in curses. Would be one beast of a build.

And it might actually make us good in PvE at last!

Tim.6450:

spoj.9672:

How? You can still take curses and spite + the new specialisation.

Tell me, what master trait should I use in curses on power greatsword build? Even then Spite+soulreaping+new specialisation is more likely to be better.

Banshees wail maybe. Or whatever replaces reapers precision. I do admit if you arent using a warhorn (quite likely with the elite spec) you are struggling for choice in the curses master tier.

But I would still rather have Bitter Chill in curses so there is atleast something worth while in the line in the grandmaster slot. And with this we can get Spiteful Talisman + Bitter Chill at the same time.

The Soul Reaping line isnt perfect for DS flash builds so i doubt we will be using it for the elite spec. I would expect to use elite spec, spite and curses. But we need curses to be improved for power builds first.

Another idea is to move Banshees Wail to adept in spite. That way you choose Spiteful Talisman or Banshees Wail. Then move Bitter Chill to curses Master. But then you cant have warhorn and focus cooldown reduction at the same time. Which is not going to be good for regular necros.

Totally forgot to mention this.

As much as im ok with the vampiric ritual trait being a load of well traits bunged together. I really dislike having siphons on them. Its messy and it means non damaging wells are going to put me in combat (WoP and WoB). To be honest I would do something totally different for a wells grandmaster trait (Wells block projectiles?) and add the wells prot trait into that.

I would make the well cooldown reduction baseline.

Ive given so much in depth feedback and suggestions for the necro now (all in the necro subforum). I usually only give PvE feedback. Not anymore! Now to sit on my hands, hope they listen and actually make some drastic changes. Im actually twitching with frustration right now thanks to the mess in curses, death magic and blood magic.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/necromancer/Necro-Spec-Notes-Feedback/first

Even if the elite spec is good. We still have to select two core specs. So i think its fairly important to get the core specs right. Especially as they are being released before HoT. :P

I have a bunch of suggestions in my analysis for each traitline on the feedback thread. Ill link them here and summarise below.

Spite
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/necromancer/Necro-Spec-Notes-Feedback/first#post5002071

• Move Bitter Chill to curses grandmaster and buff it to give +10% damage on chilled foes.
• Siphoned power needs the internal cooldown removed completely. Make it 1 stack of might with no internal cooldown and it can be a decent trait in its new implementation.
• Spiteful spirit needs its internal cooldown removed aswell. Its locked to DS entry which is 10 or 7 second cooldown. So there is no need for an extra ICD to restrict it further. Also make it a blast finisher so players have a reason to take it over CtD (Add the blast finisher to axe 3 while your at it and maybe warhorn 4? ;>).

Curses
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/necromancer/Necro-Spec-Notes-Feedback/first#post5002137

• Remove the self weaken from toxic landing.
• Remove the ICD from weakening shroud.
• Delete Reapers Precision and move one of the condi grandmaster traits down to replace it. I would personally suggest move lingering down. That way you make a choice of sustain or terror burst in the grandmaster slot.
• Add a new power focused grandmaster. My suggestion is a buffed Bitter Chill (see above).
• Alternative solution is to bring back Withering Precision but make its ICD per target instead of a global ICD. And add something extra to it to make it worth the slot.

Death Magic
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/necromancer/Necro-Spec-Notes-Feedback/page/2#post5003966

• Make Greater Marks baseline.
• Give us an active defense trait to replace it. I suggest entering DS gives you vigor.
• Move either Necromantic Corruption or Death Nova down to master tier. Having two minion grandmasters in death magic gives non minion builds no choice but to take Unholy Sanctuary.
• Add a new grandmaster. Something defensive but active. So maybe entering DS makes you reflect/block projectiles for a few seconds.

Blood Magic
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/necromancer/Necro-Spec-Notes-Feedback/page/2#post5004054

• Remove Vampiric from the minors.
• Make Deathly Invigoration a minor instead and return it to heal on DS exit.
• Move Quickening Thirst to adept and remove Bloodthirst. Remove the movement speed bonus and add +5% damage with daggers (above a health threshold if needed).
• Add vampiric to the master tier. Make this the only siphon trait we have but buff it accordingly.
• Add a new master trait which transfers conditions on lifeblast or through some other method. So we can synergise with Unholy Martyr.
• Remove the siphon from Vampiric Rituals. Siphons should only be from Vampiric.
• With Deathly Invigoration becoming a minor we have a free grandmaster. Add a new grandmaster which allows outside sources of healing to effect the Necro inside DS.

Soul Reaping
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/necromancer/Necro-Spec-Notes-Feedback/page/2#post5004104

• Buff the CDR on Vital Persistance/Path of Midnight to 20%.

Softspoken.2410:

dood.7526:

Reaper’s precision is bad. It will never compete with path of corruption or banshee’s wail. At 45% crit chance you’ll have a 15% chance to gain 1% life force on hit. This trait needs to be reworked entirely.

So as a question: say the trait gave 1% life force on every crit, triple its current strength. Would you ever take it? What about 2%? Or 5% on 33% of crits? I’m curious if this trait is bad due to fundamental design or just due to the exact numbers used.

Id say its fundamental design is just bad. The only weapon that lacks lifeforce generation is the scepter. But that hits so slowly that this trait contributes nothing to it. Its totally unneeded for anything other than scepter builds. But scepter builds probably arent going to take it either. If it was a huge 5% then it could be good on scepter. However that would make it too strong on dagger and axe. Theres no way you can balance this safely unless you make it weapon specific. Which makes the trait bad in a different way.

It should be just scrapped. Its a boring trait as far as im concerned. Bring down one of the curses grandmasters to fill this slot and add a decent power grandmaster into curses. That way condi builds have a choice of two traits in each tier and power necros have atleast 1 in each tier.

How? You can still take curses and spite + the new specialisation.

Move Bitter Chill to curses grandmaster and add +10% damage to chilled foes. Power grandmaster problem solved. Synergises with chilling darkness in the adept slot aswell.

Theres no other line to go in for power necros anyway. Its literally Spite, Soul reaping and then meh, meh and meh. So fix up the grandmasters in curses and death magic and then we can have some nice variation.

nekretaal.6485:

Is withering precision just gone?

Yes.

Now to discuss DS power necro.

We want spite again.

• Obvious choice is Reapers Might.
• For master slot we want Death Shiver again for the vuln only this time we maintain it more than in a DS flash build.
• Close to death is the only choice once again.

Next we want Soul Reaping.

• Unyielding Blast is obvious.
• Same for Vital Persistance.
• Deathly perception obvious only choice.

Now for the third line we have the same issue as on the dagger power necro.

Curses has no power grandmaster. And Reapers precision is still terribly weak and not worth taking. Especially considing theres nothing else in that line that benefits DS necro.

Blood magic still bad and we get no benefits because of no healing in DS.

Death magic seems like the best third choice.

• The adept doesnt really do anything for us. But Shrouded Removal could be helpful.
• For the master we clearly want Deadly Strength for extra damage while camping DS.
• Then the grandmaster we are forced into Unholy Sanctuary. Which maybe can be ok. But its forced.
• We are forced into this line just for Deadly Strength.

DS necro is hurt less than dagger flash necro. But it still has issues. DS necro is forced into very specific lines and traits. And a whole third line is just for one master trait because theres nothing else worth taking and nothing else which actually works inside DS.

You can clearly see there is no good third tree for either type of power necro. Which is really problematic. Curses needs a big look at. And death magic grandmasters needs a look aswell. New traits like Bitter Chill and Spiteful Spirit are either in the wrong place or not good enough to be taken.

So just going to look at how this effects power necros in PvE.

First of all lets go with dagger.

We obviously want to go spite for spiteful talisman, death shiver and close to death.

• Im assuming death shiver will apply the vuln at the start of entering DS so we can get some nice vuln just by flashing. This is a cool idea.
• Spiteful talisman giving a damage boost and reducing focus skill cooldowns is too good not to take. However i am torn between this and bitter chill. If i could get both then Necro could start to look pretty good in PvE.
• Move Bitter Chill to curses grandmaster and buff it to give +5/10% damage to chilled foes.
• Close to death is the only grandmaster choice here.
• If Spiteful spirit had its ICD removed and provided a blast then it could become a good group synergy trait alternative to the raw damage of CtD.

Now we want curses for weakening shroud and furious demise.

• However we no longer get weakening shroud proc on every DS entry. This is a nerf and a big hit to how the build plays and feels fun.
• We also still want Banshees wail in master because its just good.
• Theres no way I would ever take reapers precision in any gametype.
• But what do we take in the grandmaster slot? Theres nothing of value. Im not using a scepter so lingering is not an option. Im not condi or applying many damaging condis so contagion is pointless. And im not condi damage focused or in PvP so terror is useless to me.
• The lack of power grandmaster means i dont want to go curses anymore for anything but condi builds. But then i dont get furious demise or banshees wail. This is really frustrating.
• Move lingering down to master to replace reapers precision. This fixes condi builds and frees up a spot for a power grandmaster. I suggest a buffed Bitter Chill. Or a reworked and buffed Withering Precision. Or a combination of both.

Final tree we want Soul Reaping.

• Obviously first slot would be to take speed of shadows for more frequent DS flashes to get more fury with furious demise. Would like it to synergise with Weakening shroud and Spiteful Spirit though! (Remove ICD’s).
• Second slot would clearly be Path of Midnight so we can use Tainted Shackles more often.
• Final slot is kind of useless to a dagger necro but its free. So Deathly perception doesnt hurt for AOE bursting in DS. And FitG can be used for survivability.

I dont want blood magic because even though i can take well cooldowns and siphons. Theres no real good sustain or anything worthwhile for PvE. And theres no damage traits.

Death magic is also not an option because theres two minion grandmasters. Unholy Sanctuary might be nice in some difficult fights but im forced into one trait for each line.

This means I have to use curses. But without a grandmaster in curses its really frustrating for power necros.

In essence. The feeling of flashing DS and getting benefits every time you do so is hurt majorly by the return of ICD on DS entry traits. In addition we have lost damage traits and a viable grandmaster curses trait. This makes dagger power necro undesirable.

Siphoned power at a glance looked like a major step forward. Then i spotted the ICD. Yeah theres some serious problems with Anets careful approach.

Soul Reaping
Minors

• No complaints with keeping this the same.
• I do think Strength of Undeath should be buffed up to +10% damage to bring it inline with other traits on other classes.

Adepts

• Unyielding Blast is fine. I believe this should give 100% projectile finishers on Lifeblast though. Let us please have more finishers so we can actually use the best part of the combat system (combos).
• Soul marks makes sense in the adept. The staff cooldown reduction is a nice QoL addition to this trait.
• Speed of Shadows change is good. The movement speed is mostly unneeded. Signet passives should work in DS in my opinion. But Near to Death being in adept slot is really good.
• I actually have a really good selection of different choices in this tier which is nice.

Masters

• Spectral Mastery is good.
• Combining Path of Midnight with Vital persistance is a nice change. Make DS skill cooldown reduction 20% to bring it inline with other cooldown reduction skills.
• Master of Terror is fine. I still believe the fear traits need to maybe be combined. But this one might be worth keeping as it is.

Grandmaster

• These are fine.
• New Dhuumfire is good and i prefer it in Soul reaping compared to Spite. Really like this change.

This traitline is pretty much fine. A few minor tweaks and its good. Most of the merges and changes are what I would have suggested anyway.

Blood Magic
Minors

• Full of Life is ok. Maybe allow it to proc on hit whenever you are below the threshold.
• Vampiric needs to be combined with the other life siphon traits. I still dont understand why Bloodthirst and Vampiric Precision have been left in. Just give us one life siphon trait and buff its numbers up. And move it to the master major slot.
• Make Deathly Invigoration the replacement minor for Vampiric. And make it heal through DS or heal on exit again.
• Blood to Power is a good change. It makes more sense then the previous version. However I would just make it buff healing by a percentage instead of giving healing power.

Adepts

• Ritual of Life is a revive trait. I dont like these traits at all. They are boring. But i think its ok as it is.
• Bloodthirst should be replaced by a reworked Quickening Thirst. And all siphons should be combined together and added to Master major slot. It makes no sense to have so many weak siphon traits split across the traitline.
• Mark of Evasion. We dont have Vigor on the necro so please remove the ICD on this. Or atleast lower it.

Masters

• Quickening Thirst is still bad. The movement speed is pointless. And like you said dual wielding daggers dont really go together. Dagger offhand cooldown reduction is nice but i would only pick this because there is nothing better. Change it and move it to adept. You could add +5% damage with daggers in addition to the cooldown reduction.
• Vampiric Precision is still no good on its own. Like i said before lets just have one good life siphon trait in the Master slot.
• Transfusion is fine. I still think this should heal through DS though. Our class not benefitting from our own traits is silly. If we had really good personal sustain it wouldnt matter so much. But we dont so these traits should work through DS.

Grandmasters

• Vampiric Rituals. I dont want siphons on this. I dont want my Well of Blood or Well of Power to tag mobs/objects and put me in combat. The siphons should all be on Vampiric in the master slot and nothing else. The extra prot is nice. Maybe increase the cooldown reduction a bit more.
• Unholy Martyr is decent. The problem is it doesnt really synergise with anything. How about decreasing the Interval time and adding a Master trait which adds condition transfer to Lifeblast on land. You could put this in the Quickening Thirst slot that was freed up by moving it to Adept.
• Deathly Invigoration. This is just bad. You have nerfed it and put it into the grandmaster slot. This doesnt make sense. We cant heal from our own trait anymore. I would make this the master minor and restore it to heal on exit.
• This means we need a new grandmaster for Blood Magic. If we arent going to get healing in DS as baseline. Maybe this is the chance to do so through a trait. Give us a trait which allows all outside sources of healing to go through DS. Even if its with reduced effectiveness. Its better than nothing.

Overall blood magic is still a big mess. The siphons should be combined into one slot and be a choice rather than a passive. Deathly Invigoration should be a minor and restored to heal on exit. Most of the traits should be reshuffled. And we really need a decent sustain grandmaster. Which is why i suggest heal through DS. Add a master trait which synergises with Unholy Martyr.

Death Magic
Minors

• I think these are fine. They are defensive and they work for all builds.
• Maybe buff the protection duration slightly.

Adepts

• Flesh of the Master and Shrouded Removal are also fine.
• Putrid Defense is a nice new defensive trait. The only issue is we are kind of forced to take scepter for poison. Or use death nova with it. Maybe make it buff poison duration or apply it in some way through this trait.

Master

• Great Marks is still kind of bad. Unblockable is nice. But just traiting for that is kind of weak. I would combine this with something else. Or add something extra to it. Or i would make it baseline. At the very least the mark radius should be baseline.
• Reapers Protection is fine. Although i would personally combine this with one of the other fear traits in the other lines. Either Terror or Master of Terror.
• Deadly Strength is a nice buff and should be left as it is. The double bonus in DS is cool. Although personally i think this trait is way better than the other two choices so i would always pick it.

Grandmaster

• Death Nova is fine as always.
• Necromantic corruption change is nice. Although im not really sure about having two minion grandmaster traits in death magic. This means everyone who wants death magic but isnt running minions is forced to run unholy sanctuary.
• Unholy sanctuary is kind of unpopular. I think most people would still prefer it to allow healing in DS from other sources in addition to the regen. Other than the lackluster healing i think its a decent trait.

Overall the line is ok. The double minion grandmaster traits means non minion builds are forced into Unholy Sanctuary. I would reshuffle traits to avoid this. Its another line where most people are going to always pick the same traits for each tier. So you need to buff the less popular choices. And give more choice to non minion builds.

Well considering most of the stuff they build for in PvE is becoming baseline. And then theres the huge amounts of extra reflects. Confusion buffs. PU buff. Too many things to count. I was thinking “What!?” multiple times in every line while watching the stream.

Let me ask the opposite. What mesmer changes were nerfs or ruined current builds?

Mesmer didnt get screwed. Id say mesmer got some of the best changes.

Anyway if you think ele got it bad. You should see necros traitlines. Curses got pretty much butchered. No relevant grandmaster for power builds. 3 good condi traits in the grandmaster slot. But a condi build needs atleast 2 of them to work.

And then theres blood magic. Totally ignored all the bad traits in that line and didnt combine any of them. Total mess.

Yes im tired and misread it. Its almost 4am here. :P

I still see LH as possible. Infact you could even run staff with it. Cast meteor shower and switch to water. Then take your LH out and camp water for the damage mods. Wouldnt really work in long fights. And pure staff might still be better. But atleast the water damage mod traits are being preserved.

D/F is butchered though. So thats pretty kitten awful.

Gryph.8237:

Terror is not fine as a grandmaster. I totally disagree with that and I think we will lose a lot of damage on condi builds because of it.

If lingering is moved to master then its the same result as having terror in master and lingering in grandmaster. So you get your condi damage back. But it means you cant have terror burst and condi sustain at the same time. Which is what i think they were trying to prevent when they added parasitic contagion to curses.

Curses
Minors

• Overall these are fine. Combining barbed with hemophilia is a nice change.
• Make furious Demise group fury?
• I preferred target the weak as damage per boon. But i can let it go either way. Although making it crit means its a nerf in a fair few builds.

Adepts

• Toxic landing. Biggest gripe is that it casts CPC. Which self weakens. I dont think self weakening ourselves when we drop from high places is fair. Also CPC really should have the self applied condition changed to something else anyway. Weakness hurts the skill too much.
• Chilling darkness has always been weak. Mainly because we dont have many blinds other than WoD and plague. But the trait itself is fine and synergises with Bitter Chill (which i would move into curses to take advantage of this).
• Weakening shroud. I really dont like this change. Its reverting it back to its old state. The no ICD enfeeble had so much synergy and made a lot more sense considering the DS recharge. At the very least make this a blast to justify its 25 second cooldown. You have destroyed a big part of DS flash builds with this change.

Masters

• Reapers precision is still terrible and noone will ever take this. I would move lingering curse down into this slot and delete reapers precision. This allows the preservation of condi builds that use terror and lingering curse.
• Path of corruption i think works quite well in the master slot. Maybe add dark path cooldown reduction into this and remove it from the soul reaping trait.
• Banshees wail is fine as it is.

Grandmasters
Now this is a really big issue. All three grandmasters are condi focused. There is no choice i would use in a power build. But i still want my enfeeble and warhorn trait so im going to be stuck with a pointless grandmaster. Which doesnt make sense because im going to feel bad about picking this trait line.

• First i would move lingering curse down to master to replace reapers precision. This keeps condi builds viable and allows them to choose terror or parasitic contagion.
• Then bring in Bitter Chill as a grandmaster. But in addition to apply vuln on chill. Make it grant +5% damage to chilled foes.
• Parasitic contagion is fine where it is.
• Terror is fine where it is. I think choosing between this extra burst and contagions sustain is a nice meaningful decision.

The curses line has problems. Power builds no longer have a grandmaster choice. And condi builds no longer have the good choices in all three tiers. With my changes you fix both those issues. Also the lack of Withering precision is disappointing. But i doubt that trait would have ever been improved to an acceptible level. So i would take Bitter Chill (if its moved and buffed) over it any day.

Gonna go through and analyse each traitline.

Spite
Minors

• The minors are major improvements. I really like spiteful renewal and deaths embrace.
• However siphoned power is still god awfully bad. Take that ICD off it, make it 1 stack for 6 secs and it can maybe be good. I still dislike the health threshold aspect. But atleast its on hit instead of when hit.

Adepts

• Spiteful Talisman and Reapers Might are good. Really like the new damage to enemies with no boons. Projectile finisher on Lifeblast?
• Bitter Chill is a really nice trait aswell. My only problem is i think it should be in curses. At the moment it is competing with spiteful talisman. They are both good PvE traits but we cant use them both.

Masters

• Chill of death still good
• Death Shiver is really nice. I like the current numbers on the tooltip and think it fits perfectly in the spite line.
• Axe training is still bad. Because axe is still bad. Whats more is you are forcing us to use our bad auto attack to get some cooldown reduction. I would have just made axe training baseline and made a new trait.

Grandmaster

• Signet mastery isnt really strong enough to be a grandmaster. Especially considering how bad our signets are.
• Close to death is fine
• Unholy feast. This is a really really nice idea. Unfortunately theres no situation I would pick it over Close to Death. Its not strong enough. However if you made it a blast finisher then i would actually have a real choice between the two. I would also remove the ICD as it makes no sense to put ICD’s on traits tied to DS entry which already has a cooldown.

Overall good changes. A few tweaks should be made. Otherwise most people are going to select the same traits for every build.

Notes updated and included pics of all tooltips.

Im probably missing a few things from the notes. I didnt take them myself and i cant remember everything. So will have to wait for a VOD or dulfy’s screencaps.

Also theres a lack of power grandmasters in curses. Which is pretty problematic. Would have preferred a fixed and improved withering precision. Instead of being forced into condi focused traits.

Yeah i cant remember the exact numbers for things like that. Will update when we have screencaps of everything.

But the numbers stuff can be tweaked. And thats exactly what we should discuss. Along with other things that should be merged.

Something that really stood out to me and surprised me is the lack of merging life siphon traits.

So rather than having 500 different threads. I thought we should have it all in one. Also please dont use this thread to complain. The devs have said things are subject to change as its in the very early stages. Constructive critism and useful feedback only please.

Spite
http://i.imgur.com/o358xCI.jpg
Minors

• Spiteful Renewal (heal and cleanse condi on hit on foe below 25% hp)
• Death’s Embrace (downstate damage increase, vuln on hit on foe below 33%hp)
• Siphon Power (might on hit when enemy is at 50% HP, 5 sec icd)

Adept

• Spiteful Talisman (focus recharge, bonus damage on foes with no boons)
• Reaper Might
• Bitter Chill (+ 5 vuln on chill)

Master

• Spinal Shiver
• Death Shiver (6 vuln, 10sec duration, 3 sec interval in DS)
• Axe Training (+ 10% dmg on crippled foe, axe skills cd reduced by hitting with rending claws)

Grandmaster

• Signet Master (cast signet of Locust, TBD),
• Spiteful Spirit (cast Unholy Feast when entering DS)
• Close to Death unchanged

Curses
http://i.imgur.com/l8t5vY9.jpg
Minors

• Barbed precision combined with hemophilia
• Furious Demise
• Target the Weak (now gives 2% crit chance per condi)

Adept

• Toxic Landing (CPC on fall, reduces corruption skill recharge)
• Weakening shroud (restored to dagger 5 with icd of 25 secs)
• Chilling Darkness

Master

• Banshee’s Wail unchanged
• Path of Corruption
• Reapers Precision

Grandmaster

• Lingering Curst (Using a scepter gives +150 condi dmg & 100% condi duration)
• Parasitic Contagion (15% condi dmg heals you)
• Terror

Death Magic
http://i.imgur.com/DPwxkjk.jpg
Minors

• Armored shroud (180 toughness in DS)
• Soul comprehension
• Beyond the Veil (protection to you and minions when leaving DS)

Adept

• Putrid Defense (-10% dmg from poisoned foe)
• Flesh of the master
• Shrouded removal

Master

• Deadly Strength (7% toughness to Power, 2x amount in DS)
• Reapers protection
• Greater Marks

Grandmaster

• Necromantic Corruption (minions deal more dmg and transfer condi on hit)
• Death Nova
• Unholy Sanctuary

Blood Magic
http://i.imgur.com/oTYI7gr.jpg
Minor

• Full of life (cd reduce)
• Vampiric (+ minions siphon health for you)
• Blood to Power (healing increases under 75% HP)

Adept

• Mark of Evasion
• Bloodthirst
• Ritual of Life

Master

• Quickening thirst (move faster with dagger, cd reduced above 75% hp)
• Vampiric precision
• Transfusion

Grandmaster

• Vampiric Rituals (well siphon, well prot, well cd reduction)
• Deathly Invigoration (Heals on DS entry instead of exit, buffed healing)
• Unholy Martyr

Soul Reaping
http://i.imgur.com/16d5R75.jpg
Minors

• Gluttony
• Last Gasp
• Strength of Undeath (+ 15% lifeforce)

Adept

• Unyielding Blast
• Soul Marks (staff skills recharge faster)
• Speed of Shadows (increase movement in DS, reduce recharge of DS)

Master

• Spectral Mastery (spectral traits merged)
• Mastery of terror (+50% fear duration, fear when you are downed)
• Vital Persistance (merged with path of midnight)

Grandmaster

• Foot in the Grave (breaks stun)
• Deathly Perception
• Dhummfire (no icd and burning stacks),

Baseline

• Minion recharge reduced
• Focus skills range increased
• Wells ground targeted
• Downed state damage reduced

Spite got improved. Thats about it.

Also that new grandmaster in spite. That should definitely be a blast.

Yeah im kind of hoping all conversion minor traits get scrapped and replaced.

Thats the main reason i never participate in those demand answers threads. It doesnt get us anywhere and it certainly doesnt make our community look good.

Most likely still be specing in spite for close to death. But yeah the change is nice. It gives all classes more trait flexibility without worrying about stat investments.

The secondary stats like condi duration seem to be going. I expect they will just add them through new gear sets or other means.

That wouldnt make sense. Nerf it for everyone that isnt using the trait? Besides its really not as good as people think. For pure healing its pretty weak considering the necros health pool. But obviously its condi cleanse is really strong.

Our other heals are just flat out bad. Which is why consume conditions seems so good in comparison.

DevilLordLaser.8619:

I really don’t understand why even folks who’re normally level-headed and forward-thinking like Nike are so opposed to this system.

This particular Nike was the one suggesting crafting in fractals. Not sure that description really ever fit him. :>

That right there is what is wrong with the human race.