Also i totally ignored classes like thief and ele which get 900 offensive stat points just from 6/6. Critical strikes and air magic give 300 precision and 300 ferocity. So they get hit pretty hard with this change. Again only if we assume they are redistributing 700 stat points. They could do it completely differently. But it will most likely cause a slight nerf in most cases.
The power creep in this case is more of a new strategies rather than a raw numbers increase. So its less impactful. And it will only really feel like a power creep to organised groups.
Not really. There is the concentration of stats. With stats from trait you couldn’t have max dps stats. At best with a Thief 6/6/x build you had 300 power, precision and ferocity, but that would still leave you with 500 points of stats that are not really usefull in PvE (toughness, vitality, healing power, etc ), or half interesting (condition damage, boons duration, etc). Of these 500pts, 148 will be transformed into vitality and toughness, but the remaining 352pts will be a power creep for zerker build. And that’s the minimum possible. For the standard dps warrior it will be 502 additional direct damage stats.
Im not following. We have 700 stat points in traits now. Part of that is going to base and the rest is going to gear. They have stated that your stats should be about the same as they are now. Theres no power creep if they do that right. The only classes that might get a stat increase are classes that specced into their vitality and toughness traitlines. The rest will probably lose a few stat points. And we havent been told how much is going into gear so you cannot say a class is getting X bonus stats. We can only guess.
The only thing we know is the base stats are getting upped to 1000. If they are redistributing exactly 700 stat points then 404 will go into gear and 296 will be baseline. With148 going into toughness and vitality we only have 552 going into offensive stats when wearing offensive gear. Thats less than what most meta builds have in traits currently (6/6/x is 600 offensive stat points). So its not a power creep. Its the reverse.
PS. Phalanx warrior, LH ele and a mesmer that runs 4 or more in inspiration are the only meta builds that are getting bonus offensive stats with these assumptions.
The power creep in this case is more of a new strategies rather than a raw numbers increase. So its less impactful. And it will only really feel like a power creep to organised groups.
Except DS is the only way we can survive some encounters in PvE. By using it as a makeshift block. Protection and a tiny bit of extra sustain will not make up for the loss of DS. If you are going to remove DS you need to go all out and give us real blocks, invulns, reflects and evades. Without those you can goodbye to the classes viability in every gametype. DS is barely providing the survivability we need as it is. Lets not make it worse.
what does pvp have anything to do with dungeon balance?
If we could just ignore PvP then necros wouldnt be in this problem to begin with. They would have surely recieved PvE buffs to resolve their lack of popularity. Unfortunately the game balance isnt split like that. :P
Just a thought about your comparison.
Greatsword (warrior) wasn’t popular in sPvP because people don’t know how to play it right. They use the auto attack and 100b pointlessly and that makes it weak. It’s really strong in burst (Whirlwind Attack), chase (Rush, Bladetrail) and finally cleave (100b, Arcing Slide). Anyhow, more wars start playing greatsword in Q now.
Yeah but my point is you cant just faceroll it. For 100b the target needs to be immobile in front of you. There is setup required. If the dps stuff is on stuff which isnt as practical in a PvP environment (players move and evade) then its pretty safe to implement without imbalancing sPvP.
Its basically arcane echo but better. And i was hoping for Arcane echo as the new elite for chronomancer. So im happy because this means you can echo timewarp aswell. Also i expect it to work with conjure skills aswell. Double Ice Storm meta? Assuming it isnt completely overnerfed.
Yeah it was kind of annoying at the start with how stupid all the characters were. But then the deaths redeemed it to a certain extent. I kind of enjoyed the plot and idea behind it. It just got a bit too stupid at times.
Necro is only safe in sPvP when people dont focus it. Any half decent player should know to CC and focus the necro. They become trash tier when thats done. So no i dont think increasing their damage would break them in PvP. They are still severely limited in sPvP. They just work well as a hotjoin class due to the ease of the class.
Besides I wouldnt be increasing damage on DS. It would be through traits, skills and rotations that require effort and investment to pull off. Think of it this way. GS warrior is good dps but noone takes it in sPvP anymore because it doesnt really work. Thats the kind of damage increase i would suggest if they were going to go down the damage route.
But like Jerus said. Its unlikely they will do anything like that so its pointless worrying about it. I would take extra active defence and group utility as a priority personally. Lich + Well burst is enough damage if we had some other stuff in addition to it. And we didnt have to get carried on some encounters.
I never finished it, it was so boring to me. Just dragged on with not much happening for way too long for me to get into it
The deaths get pretty comical later on, worth watching for the comedic value if anything.
Yeah it was kind of annoying at the start with how stupid all the characters were. But then the deaths redeemed it to a certain extent. I kind of enjoyed the plot and idea behind it. It just got a bit too stupid at times.
Its not even map completion. Just go to low level maps and run to each skill challenge. Doesnt take anywhere near as much time and effort as fully completing each map. Plus its only 65 skill points. Thats about 5 maps where you just run from skill challenge to skill challenge and ignore everything else. Oh look theres 5 starter maps. Problem solved. Chances are you will have enough just from being 80 to complete your builds. Its only an issue if you want everything including the traits and skills you never use. But then its such a minor effort to get those remaining hero points. :P
The only issue i have with this is i spent a load of gold on buying all the traits for all my alts a few weeks ago. I dont really care that my skillpoints were wasted. The gold however amounted to quite a lot. Which i am a little peeved about.
Most of the stuff mesmers trait for currently in PvE will be baseline. Confusing combatants is pretty minor but nice. Then all those new reflect traits. Timewarp becoming a glamour. All the interrupt stuff could be really good in PvE aswell (definitely on trash mobs, maybe on bosses with new defiant). Recharging phantasms with shatters and illusionary persona being baseline? These are all pretty nice improvements even if they dont change the class in a major way. We could start seeing shatters and interrupts becoming more important in PvE builds which is interesting.
The only real nerf is the harmonious mantras change to ferocity on activation instead flat damage on passive. But thats fair. It rewards active play rather than passive play. Its a PvP focused change but i still think its fair.
Theres not really anything to complain about with mesmer. Unless you were expecting major new stuff to make it a meta class even without portal or to completely change how the class plays. But not even necros are expecting even a fraction of that. That kind of unrealistic expectation should be reserved for the elite specs.
You cant expect any classes major issues to be resolved in this change. I dont expect necros to get their problems solved like this even though they really need it. Thats something brand new elite specs have a better chance of doing because they actually change our class mechanics (which is mesmer and necros cause for issue). So clearly you cant solve the issue without the elite spec.
I liked most of the changes on mesmer. They made sense and all that extra confusion could be useful with the condi reworks. So while i was watching that stream i was thinking “there is hope if this guy is doing necro”. Needless to say I and many others were disappointed. My initial reaction to the new spite line was good. But then after close inspection i noticed the ICD’s. An eternal problem for necros it seems. It happened to Withering Precision, now it happens to everything else and they decided to delete withering precision.
I was speaking of your general style of posts. You always seem to pop up and start instigating this same discussion. And the suckers we are cant seem to resist the temptation to respond.
Nah we should be fine for precision. Its getting moved to gear and base stats so for 6/6 builds with zerk/sin you should have the same stats you have now. Non DS builds should be using assassins already so theres no real change there.
New target the weak might mean berserker is better again or we just dont use precision food anymore. But overall its a nerf. Even with low crit, flat damage modifiers are way stronger than bonus crit chance. Id say it would need to be quite a bit more than +2% crit chance per condi to become equal on a power build.
In general, this thread is a ‘why do they hate us?’
I find in my own life that the most common answer to that question is ’it’s because I’m being obnoxious’.
That’s the thing I’d like to have folks get out of this. As easy as it is to look outward and blame/insult others it’s much more useful, if you actually care about fixing the situation, to look inwards
so what was it you were trying to say about the people in the guild I’m in again?
I regret the reference, don’t wanna get into a flame war.
Hard to believe with how obnoxious you are and how you always seem to pop out of nowhere to bring these issues up. :>
I need a new anime series. I need recommendations, before I start talking to myself on the phone, randomly announcing that I am a mad scientist and wear my lab coat 24/7.
Necros sustained damage is one of the lowest in the game. But a necro using locust swarm > reapers touch > tainted shackles > WoS > WoC > Lich is very good burst. Its an incredibly frontloaded rotation. If you take out staff ele and icebow i believe its the highest burst in the game. Thats for about 10 seconds atleast. Some of the other classes might catch up once your wells run out and you are just spamming lich auto.
If you are talking about 3 second or less burst (PvP style burst) then obviously necro doesnt have it very good. But in PvE good burst is considered in a time frame of around 5-15 seconds.
OK just wanted to make sure I was understanding correctly. Most bosses dont last longer than 10-30 seconds in Pve though Correct? So if its one of the longer boss fights, coe or hotw, i can see this being a problem, but in COF, AC, SE, CM, boss fights with a good party should melt in those 10 seconds of burst? It just seems that in some of the faster dungeons in a good dps group, necros could do….acceptably?
Yeah the problem is right now you need party slots for buffers and utility classes. Then the rest of the party goes dps. This means 1 thief, 1 warrior and atleast 1 or 2 eles. Then the other slot is either mesmer/guard or another ele. And with conjures and icebows as they are there is no justification for a necro. Especially when the eles can also contribute to buffing and group defence. There simply isnt space in a group for a mediocre dps leech class. Even if they nerf icebow into the ground people will still want staff eles. Giving 1 out of 2 eles up for a necro is not going to be something people will be ok with. If necro had a bit more to offer in addition to burst then maybe they would be more open to it.
Necros sustained damage is one of the lowest in the game. But a necro using locust swarm > reapers touch > tainted shackles > WoS > WoC > Lich is very good burst. Its an incredibly frontloaded rotation. If you take out staff ele and icebow i believe its the highest burst in the game. Thats for about 10 seconds atleast. Some of the other classes might catch up once your wells run out and you are just spamming lich auto.
If you are talking about 3 second or less burst (PvP style burst) then obviously necro doesnt have it very good. But in PvE good burst is considered in a time frame of around 5-15 seconds.
So in dungeon groups necros run into a problem that we dont bring anything to the party that another class doesnt already do better. For just straight up damage, the best played necros can in THEORY keep up with thieves, but in practice thats not happening in all likely hood. In support, we can bring chill weakness and vulnerability. Weakness only helps in reducing damage, and parties have already learned to clear dungeons without that damage reduction. Chill only helps to keep bosses in place with some damage reduction. Again, no need for that damage reduction, and most parties can keep bosses in place already. Vulnerability can be stacked better by other classes. Eles do more aoe damage, even without icebow.
So assume a party with the current meta-ish build (theif, guardian, 2 ele, ps warrior). We dont put out the damage of a thief nor do we bring any stealth, so we cant replace a thief. Our group support comes at a cost of DPS, and we cant really keep the potection/regen of a guardian up. More importantly we offer no reflects or real damage mitigation of that kind. The group fury, the might stacking, or the icebow of an ele (even if ice bow gets nerfed the others are a problem). We dont have the might stacking of a phalanx warrior.
Of these, the closest we are able to replace is the ele. We can bring some level of AOE damage with wells and warhorn locust storm etc. We can keep up damage if we try hard. Ice bows are getting nerfed so we dont have to contend with that. We can maintain personal fury uptime of 70% (elese can do group fury of 100%). Ice stacking isnt neccessary if you have a phalanx. So if our fury trait applied group fury (or if we had a grand master that turned our minor in to a group fury) we could atleast push our way into a group if they cant find two eles. This is not a terribly overpowering pvp change, and not at all over powering in PVE. IT still makes us a second choice to elese, but atleast we could be a substitue. And then this one change to a minor trait would take us from being the useless selfish dps to being “hey you have a necro, i guess you can help out a little”
In short, AOE Fury plz?
The only thing we do is damage. But we dont even come close to ele or thief. And thats not just in practise. Its also in theory. Eles and thieves have around 10 separate damage modifiers. Necro has 3 in traits (currenly can only use 2 at once) and the 3 every class has (potions, runes and sigils). Necros dont even compete for middle ground dps when doing the math. And its all because of the lack of damage mod traits and high coefficient skills. Lich form is our only saving grace and that doesnt compete with staff ele.
Necro still has some of the lowest amount of damage modifier traits even after the proposed changes for all classes. So even if power builds might be good in PvP and WvW. They are still a little on the weak side for PvE. And we are losing our current version of target the weak which doesnt help. Damage mods > crit chance.
Went off topic quite a bit but it gets back onto it on the last few pages.
tl;dr
Lupi auto attack change could be intentional and left as is. Which would mean necro is the only class it is impossible to survive on without going nomads (not even sure if nomads would give us enough sustain to do it comfortably) or being carried by group reflects/blocks. As you can see defence is not just a PvP issue. Its becoming an increasing problem in PvE and will continue to do so if they are increasing challenge in HoT.
The thing is axe mastery could be good if they buffed 2 to actually do burst damage. As it stands its slightly less than dagger auto attack. Its the weapon thats the real problem. Not the trait.
Speaking of condition control, it occurs to me that if plague sig had it’s effects inverted (passive transfer 1 condition to enemy, active pull conditions from allies) it would actually have more utility.
Passive condi transfer to enemies is useful on it’s own, as both an offensive and defensive ability, and being able to control WHEN you pull conditions from allies (and a lot of them) makes it easier to take advantage of them with consume conditions/deathly swarm/putrid, as well as being a somewhat useful support tool.
It would actually synergise better with Unholy martyr aswell. I dont really get why we got a grandmaster which does the same as our signet but without the transfer.
And while im on the topic of Unholy Martyr. The trait itself is fairly decent. The problem is we have no way to get rid of those conditions other than blowing cooldowns. We have no trait synergy with that grandmaster. Our condition cleanse trait is triggered on DS entry and unholy martyr works after you are in DS. They are in the wrong order.
Shrouded Removal is nice as it is. But if it was switched to condi removal on DS exit it would synergise with Unholy Martyr. The problem with that is it might be a nerf in some situations. Such as large stacks of bleed so you need to cleanse fast but that means you have to put DS on cooldown when ordinarily you would of prefered to stay in DS for a bit. Although im curious what others think of switching it to on exit? Is the extra synergy worth it? Its only a nerf in very extreme situations.
The other solution to giving synergy to Unholy Martyr is to add a new adept/master trait in blood which gives us condi transfer in DS. I mentioned it before. But theres plenty of space for new traits like this in blood magic because most people seem to agree the life siphon traits need to be merged completely.
If its put into a minor it becomes baseline to a specific specialisation. Which is fine. As long as its done right its not a problem for non condi builds. flows idea of merging it with the new target the weak is a nice idea.
Anyway with the curses grandmasters thing. Something definitely needs to be moved/merged/changed. But i agree with flow, i believe parasitic contagion should remain in curses. It gives a small sustain option without having to spec completely into blood. And its good to have a condi sustain, condi damage and non specific trait in the curses line. So i would be in favour of moving terror to master tier or making it a combined minor.
Its because on forums people dont censor themselves as much as they would in real time conversation. But the reality is most people are thinking much worse.
The first 3 quotes are perfectly reasonable and completely true. Only the 4th one is inappropriate and rude. Although it does have some truth to it if you ignore the insults. I didnt realise speaking truth is considered an adversarial attitude….
But then again its not surprising. The whole reason so many people get offended by stupid things is because they are insecure about their own ignorance/position.
It shows an exclamation mark after 99 stacks. That doesnt mean its capped at 100. And that was just in the early beta. But yeah i do expect there to be some cap eventually. But 100 would probably be too low for open world. Id say it should be atleast 500. Even thats pushing it for large groups.
