Guild Wars 2

ITT: OP pointing out that murdering someone and wearing their skin is worse than just murdering them.

Blatantly ignoring the fact that it’s the murder itself that’s the problem.

They will do nothing about stacking and zerging – having huge numbers of people together lets them pretend there are many people doing many things. The fact that those people are all doing one thing (stand here and press 1) doesn’t come into consideration.

It’s rather like the forced WvW for map completion. It allows them to use their metrics and claim that most PvE players become WvW players, when anyone else knows this is blatantly untrue.

It’s all about numbers, and how they can massage them to tell them what they want to hear.

The three I’ve noticed and tossed on my friends list play exclusively warrior/thief. Given the state of the ranger, I can’t imagine any main one. (I know there was a dungeon dev who was a major ranger advocate, but he was fired.)

ThiBash.5634:

It would also be nice if players weren’t punished for trying to communicate with ArenaNet by the forum moderators.

This. In the last week alone, there have been mulit-thousand post threads removed, because one or two posts were directly critical of Anet. They were full of reasonable criticism and suggestions.

Honestly, I rather expect to get another slap for this post, but it does have to be addressed.

Evil – I’m not approaching this from the viewpoint of capture-the-node. That gametype doesn’t appeal to me, and the only class I’ve spent any time on there is my ranger. With that said, I thought that stealth was basically useless in that form of PvP, and thus thieves had to actually play like the rest of us.

In WvW, thieves are the gods of roaming, with the ability to gank pretty much anyone they find on their own, with zero risk. In a zerg, they’re about as useless as rangers.

No, the discussion is about whether having an attack be blocked/evaded/miss through blind should trigger reveal. It should.

Let’s say I’m standing there, didn’t know you were going to hit me, but suddenly a dagger smacks my shield – pretty good bet I know you’re there.

Same with someone trying to punch me from behind, but he swings beside my head instead – I’m going to turn around and rock you.

Say I’m pretty sure you’re hiding nearby, and start swinging a sword through the shadows – once I hit you, I know where you are (or I should.)

Any attack should result in revealed – as should taking damage.

From rarest to least rare, from experience (so anecdotal)

Precursors (haven’t had one drop ever – through thousands of gold worth of items into the mystic toilet – still none.)

Ascended weapon/armour items. As far as I can tell, these don’t actually drop, even in fractals – or I’m cursed.

Rare dyes.

BL keys, which I’ve had as drops in dungeons, and rewards for zone completion, are easily a few thousand times more common than precursors or ascended weapon boxes.

Purely anecdotal though.

Paulo – I had a thief, and yeah, they suck diseased moose wang in PvE. You know how many deaths I had while roaming in WvW? Less than 1. Were I to re-roll a thief, use a instant 20 scroll, and go back to WvW, I guarantee I could level to 80 with no deaths while roaming.

There is absolutely zero risk to a class that cannot be tracked, and has the ability to spam 2 skills till someone is dead, and if there’s any chance of failing, reset the fight and flee.

Even Hambow warriors are rocking a higher level of risk, dude.

Elementalists and Rangers wave at the Mesmer, while desperate wishing to be half as useful.

To the thief ranting above – thieves depend too much on stealth – till they redesign most of the class, the class is going to deserve constant nerfing. Stealth is broken, and has no place in a multiplayer game.

As someone who mained ranger, about the only good thing I have to say about the class is the flavour is awesome. The execution sucks diseased moose wang.

Damage isn’t there, group utility is limited to frost spirit/healing spring/spotter. No real burst. The profession mechanic doesn’t work – and has been described that way by the lead game designer. Utilities are too pet-centric, when said mechanic doesn’t work.

Entire thread is a fail premise.

Havoc, he exaggerates a touch. Full glass is about 22k HP, and 2400 armour. Which is still pretty kitten ed tanky for any other class. Plus the strongest passive heal in the game – exceeding even the potential healing from an AH guardian.

There is something completely inbalanced about warrior – the fact that they give up pretty much nothing to get incredible numbers being one of those things.

Laughing at all the people claiming that using stealth is at all high risk. There is exactly one hard counter to stealth in the entire game. Aside from that, the “counter” to stealth is to wave your weapon around like a madman, kite randomly, or hope you’re playing one of the classes that has PBAoE.

Stealth is broken – the fact that thieves depend on stealth for pretty much everything is just bad design.

Block/miss/evade should all trigger revealed.

I don’t object to hard or “elite” content. I do believe it should be instanced and in an environment that the user can control.

Make Teq and the Wurm instanced – create instances for each of the other meta bosses. Increase the difficulty of the encounters, have them reward karma, gold, items and a chance at new skins. (Use it as a chance to bring back GW1 skins as rewards, perhaps. Always looking for a chance to sneak some horizontal progression in there.)

Leave the bosses as they exist in the open world, bring Teq closer to it’s previous state, and make the wurm something closer to the current world bosses.

Everybody wins. Guilds and organized groups get hard content, with rewards for being coordinated. Open world gets bosses that don’t require map saturation and allow for people who aren’t optimized/organized. I fail to see how this is a bad approach.

Just my $0.02

Shadowbane, it was in one of the previews for the patches – mid December I believe. The lead game designer said first that pets are bad (he actually said the mechanic doesn’t work) then he stated they have no plans of fixing the pet AI or altering the mechanic.

There’s another thread calling for a combination of making the bosses in question somewhat more open world friendly, (100+ people fully geared with consumable is NOT friendly) while adding instanced modes for them that require significantly more coordination. Possibly making them guild missions instead of flat instances (though I see making them like dungeons, but for ~50 people a very do-able thing)

Definite support – and I expect you’ll see more support, since when people are still proposing alternatives for the ruined (new) tequatl. The wurm faces the same issues.

+1

They also need a camera height adjustment – I’m tired of the bottom 30% of my screen showing the dirt behind me. There’s a beautiful skyline in the game, but we’re forced to always stare at the dirt.

The camera needs a complete overhaul.

First Person View

FoV slider (really, I don’t remember the last game I played that forced the tunnel effect on us this badly)

Camera height above ground slider.

An extremely worthwhile read. I do hope that someone at Anet takes notice.

mtpelion – it likely doesn’t help much that veterans on the ranger (like myself) are quick to speak the truth about the class – which comes off as bashing. I’m not bashing them (not all rangers are noobs) but the base truths about our class design, when put into the greater game design, means rangers are set up to fail from the start.

Cassocaster – I leveled a ranger, through to 80, and so far he’s my only character with world completion. That said, rangers suck when compared to any of the other classes.

The problem is manifold, but can be summed up by:

- The pet doesn’t work. This has been acknowledged by the lead game designer. Since a ranger’s weapon damage is 30-40% lower than any of the other classes because the pet is supposed to bring the average up, it means our DPS just isn’t there compared to the other classes

- The utilities are either tied to the pet (signets and shouts) or require heavier than average investment to be useful (signets/traps). The only truly desirable utility from a group play perspective, is one spirit – and even then, spirits are simply the poor man’s banner.

- Our traitlines are a mess. There are multiple traits that ought to be base functionality of the class (boon sharing with pets and pet movement, for example) and there are even more that are in traitlines that flat out don’t make sense (the trap traits being under the precision line, and pet traits scattered through all the traitlines.)

- Our weapons. Ranged weapons just suck in GW2 – the entire game is designed that way. This means our iconic weapons (the bows) are always going to be subpar to our melee options. Our melee options are 1H sword, which possesses an auto-attack that makes it impossible to dodge, and the greatsword, which is a heavily defensive weapon.

The totality of this means that we’re hindered by the pet mechanic, our utilitiy skills aren’t as useful as what the other classes can provide, our traits actively hinder making effective builds, and our one pure DPS weapon is useless outside of 1v1.

Until they address these (make the pet optional, and add a damage boost while it’s stowed, rearrange/merge our traits, redesign the signets to not put our pet first over ourselves, and fix the 1H sword or boost the damage on greatsword) ranger’s will continue to be sub-optimal to an outright hindrance.

It’s a pity, because 1) I mained a ranger all through GW1, and they were amazingly versatile 2) I love the flavour of the class.

Think of all the poor melee characters!

Ramiel, we’ve been yelling. The lead game designer has admitted that pets don’t work. He’s also stated that they will make no improvements to the pet AI. Couple that with the fact that they insist a ranger MUST have a pet.

It’s a bleak future for the class.

I want full control. Let me add/remove any part of the UI, the way GW1 worked.

yes. 15 characters

Perma stow + 30% damage boost to weapon skills and trap damage. Only fix that will fix.

They’ve stated flat out that they won’t be addressing the AI, and they’ve also stated that it’s broken. Doesn’t really leave a whole lot of wiggle room.

Ways to make it happen? Make some traits the default behaviour for pets:

- alpha training
- agility training
- fortifying bond

Merge others:

- malicious training/expertise training
- pet’s prowess/carnivorous training
- concentration training/compassion training

and move ALL of the pet traits to beastmastery. (delete or merge to make room) and replace them with actually useful traits.

- Make the signets all affect the ranger AND pet by default,
- Make SoR not require a pet. (passive stays the same – active becomes “cure all conditions” recharge stays the same)

Bam, there we go. People who aren’t into the petting zoo have a class that’s not handicapped by a broken mechanic – those who like the furries can trait for them more directly. The two can blissfully ignore each other.

It’s not a personal story – it’s a tribute to the glory of the walking salad – he who also has zero emotion.

What they REALLY need to do is give us the ability to just turn off the reminder for this.

+1. They really ought to go through and remake all the GW1 armours. Make some new dungeons, and make them the rewards.

At the same time, they should reduce the stats on Ascended to that of exotic + the infusion slot (have to add that to every armour related thread.)

More variety – non long-coat variety, is needed.

Also, I want pants for my ele. Not a skirt, not pants and skirt – just pants.

To put it differently, since I understand about the lore:

They should add guild halls – then they should add GvG.

Flissy.4093:

Warriors are actually out DPSed by Eles, Thieves, Mesmers and about the same as Guardian, just losing out.

I’ll never understand why people think they do the highest DPS. A big 100b number =/= good DPS.

Because, unlike the other classes you mentioned, warriors are easy mode. Gear up in zerker, equip healing sig, and you’re basically done. Roll head on keyboard + profit.

Assuming the ele build you’re talking about is either the LH build (which requires a team to support you) or the one skill, FGS. A normally built ele isn’t out DPSing a warrior.

Thieves – against a single target, in wvw, roaming – sure. Any other circumstance – no chance.

Mesmers – high skill ceiling. They work harder for it, and deserve it.

Guardians – see mesmer.

Vayne.8563:

The issue with having both content types should be self evident. You split the playerbase and end up taking some of the people doing the open world event into the smaller raid event (because you’re not going to have an 80 man raid) and then if ten or twenty groups do this, there might not EVER be enough people to do it in the open world…and that’s a problem, because Anet wants this game to be about the open world. They’ve always said that.

It’s all very nice to provide a percentage of the players with what they want. It’s not all right when it actually ruins either the vision of the game itself, or the experience of that vision for those who are enjoying it.

Just as some people bought this game because they didn’t want vertical progression, I bought this game so I wouldn’t be forced into doing instances if I didn’t want to.

If you move this game so that people can experience the content in instances or open world, and you need less people for instances, you kill the open world.

For this reason I don’t think Anet will do it, even if you personally don’t like open world raids,

(cough) ascended. (cough)

Instanced, for these things, is truly the way to go. or:

Rod.6581:

Why not both? Instanced raids AND large scale world bosses?

who basically wins the thread.

Leuca, we’ve been told flat out by the lead game designer that they don’t plan on doing the work to improve pets. Shouldn’t that read “don’t expect any miracles ever”?

Just putting this out there, and I’ll flesh it out more once I’ve slept some. Bear in mind this is all referring to PvE and dungeoneering.

To get real balance between the classes, as a base step, all stats other than armour rating should be taken off of armour sets and weapons. Stat differences would be purely from traits and trinkets.

The second step would be to make the base HP of all classes the same.

Step three is to increase the damage reduction from toughness.

Step four would be to ensure that every class has the same potentially attainable stats. An ele, with the right traiting and boons, should be able to be as tanky as the most defense traited warrior. A warrior should be able to be traited as glassy as the glassiest thief.

The last step, and the most difficult from the perspective of time and programming hours, involves balancing the actual encounters.

Mobs should have more variety.

- Some should still be health sponges, where DPS rules all.

- Some should have very high toughness levels, where condition damage is suddenly far more effective than direct damage.

- Some should have mechanics that encourage AoE damage (the ability to call for reinforcements)

- CC needs to be more necessary. Have very mobile enemies that require some degree of chill/cripple/immob to successfully take down.

- Boons and boon stripping. Enemy mobs need both.

The ideal would be for the entire enemy set to be gone through, have professions applied to them, and then give workable builds. Instead of having scaling work through making baddies great big HP sponges with loads of armour, have the actual number of baddies be the scaling mechanism (world bosses like dragons and temples being excepted – a horde of animate statues seems rather unreasonable).

Will add thoughts later, when I’ve not been up for 72 hours with no coffee.

I believe it’s WoR. I have some rifle kills, despite NOT having any rifle-equipped characters, but I use WoR against any projectile. I also think but can’t prove that retaliation counts as damage from the weapon that attacked you, which would account for some of my dagger kills, despite (again) not having any dagger equipped characters.

If I remember, I’ll do some testing Monday/Tuesday, and post back.

I know that the unpopular opinion would be unpopular – still;

Why don’t they just increase all our skill coefficients, while reducing the damage on the pet to something that’s just a minor boost? Instead of the current 60:40 ranger:pet damage mix making up the whole, just have it as 95:5. The pet would still apply buffs/debuffs, and all the petting zoo fans would still have their AI buddies running about.

or

Just make perma stow an option already. When stowed, the ranger gets a flat 30% buff to their direct damage skills.

Anyone else remember Guild Wars? The ranger, specifically, wherein, if you didn’t want to roll as a beastmaster, you didn’t have to? It was a far better setup than the non-optional AI “companion” we have now.

Harper.4173:

Ranger was broken the moment the class was anchored down with a companion pet AI that you cannot play without.
If rangers had stayed the same as they were in GW1 ( You could choose to run WITH or WITHOUT a pet and still be as effective) it would have been my second class to make and level up.
As it is now I’m not touching it and never will.
Not going to play a class where my effectiveness is determined by a poorly designed AI NPC that i’m forced to use.

This guy basically wins the entire ranger forum.

LittleLepton.8915:

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

LittleLepton.8915:

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

LittleLepton.8915:

I would posit that encouraging a newbie to waste gold and time on gear and strategies that are not efficient or as good (I’m assuming that he does not want to spend hours in a single dungeon) is a terrible thing and you should get in trouble for griefing.

This implies that all people play for the same reasons you do… to do the content in the fastest, more efficient means possible. However, it’s downright foolish to assume such. Some people play simply to play, and therefore have just as much right to play how they please as you do. So what if it’s not the most efficient, or provides the most DPS. If the group as a whole is enjoying itself (after all, this is supposed to be a game about the ‘journey’ not the ‘destination’ as I keep being told), then what is the issue?

He’s asking for people to accept rangers into their groups.

But most people automatically assume the ranger is terrible without giving them a chance. That’s the issue here, and he’s simply pointing out that while yes some do suck, not all do and not all should be automatically rejected based on the failings of others.

Because the majority of people do not want to spend more time than they need to in a dungeon (sure you can say that not everyone wants to play that way, but the majority DO)

Ah yes… the whole ‘must get the cookie noooooooooow’ mentality that has infected so many. Gods forbid you take 5 or even 10 more minutes. You might miss a shiny you could have gotten because you had time for ‘just 1 more run.’ Such mentality is a disease.

You know what mentality is a disease? One that doesn’t get having a run last 10 minutes longer can actually be too much for a player like myself, with a family, house, job, etc. so stop telling me that that time doesn’t matter, because it matters to me, and other people who don’t have all the time in the world.

Also, it isn’t usually 10 minutes. If I run with an optimized group versus a free for all, on average, it’s about an hour longer.

Stop telling me false information. Stop spreading the real disease.

Based on this post, and the assertion that you don’t have 10 minutes to spare, I’d venture to say you probably shouldn’t be playing a MMO in the first place.

Using your personal time and patience limitations to justify being hostile to people? That’s uncouth.

- The different health/defense between professions, while they have approximately the same potential damage output (rangers aside, poor rangers.)

- The ranger’s class mechanic.

- Ascended gear.

- The “let’s-make-new-lore-for-no-good-reason” living story. Since they seem compelled to work with this failure, they should at least have been drawing on existing lore. Fail system is fail.

- RNG everything, without a consistent way to get what you’re looking for. High level items should ALWAYS have specific methods of acquisition. (This could be anything from having to do XYZ quests, to the GW system of “this boss, and only this boss, has a chance of dropping item X”)

Roe, Norjena, they balance WvW and PvE as one thing (other than the pet health). The conversation is moot.

Broken differently. Rangers need love. The weapons are deliberately weak, the pet flat out doesn’t work, the traits are a mess, and the utilities are a joke.

Thieves, on the other hand, have everything they need to be viable, but instead absolutely everything got tied to stealth. The result? They were made to troll. To do insane damage, then be untouchable.

Ranger needs to be buffed, in a lot of areas. Thieves need to be tied into a burlap sack with some cement blocks and drowned.

fellyn.5083:

stale.9785:

-increase armor on all mobs, increase their general damage output, and reduce the number of 1 hit kills that must be dodged. (This would be my preferred approach).

That would affect everyone who isn’t doing condition damage then. We’d have the same problem we have now only with condition gear sets.

Well, anyone specced for with toughness should be ok – clerics would be laughing. PVT should be able to tank more than PPC gear – right now, you really can’t. 1 shot kill is 1 shot kill, regardless of gear.

My ideal would be having it so that berserker is still the beast for direct damage, but having “DPS DPS DPS 1111111111” being the only approach to content no longer hold true.

As it stands, I run berserker on all my chars in PvE – there is literally no reason not to. Either the mobs don’t hit hard enough for me to care, and I kill them, or it’s a 1 shot that HAS to be dodged – and regardless of gearing, that 1 shot HAS to be dodged.

Instead, a group of, say 5 mobs should have:

- one who hits like a truck
- one who spams conditions on players
- one who buffs their allies with protection/retaliation
- one who uses cc/area denial
- one with very high toughness

You know, make mobs more like actual players. There’s a reason using all zerker in WvW is (thieves aside – broken class being broken) is a non-starter. When the needs of the encounter encompass more than DPS DPS DPS! you get people doing more than just building for max PPC and spamming 1111.

Roe- i tend to count WvW as part of PvE. Tempest in a teacup though – WvW can be boiled down to 2 basic build types – PVT zergballs and condition roamers. Not a lot of concern over changing berserker stuff there.

Oh, and breaking thieves ability to hit for insanely high amounts from stealth on roamers? That’s a good thing. They just need to be given something else to compensate.

(IMO thieves have always been broken, still are broken, and the only fix would be changing the class a LOT – same boat that rangers are in.)

For the people worrying about PvP – read more of the forums! They’re specifically talking about berserker being too powerful in PvE. You can unbunch your panties now, and go back to controlling those nodes.

Alrighty, for the remaining 90% of the playerbase who may have actual concerns;

The most likely thing, IMO, is that they’ll cap critical damage the way it is in PvP. No more insanely high numbers. This would bring the berserker damage back down to being in line with condition stacking (in terms of single person damage output) but wouldn’t address the problem with the condition stack cap. (new dungeon meta: 4 berserkers + 1 condition stacker?)

The next most likely thing would be taking the Tequatl approach, and making more bosses immune to crits. This would have a major impact on dungeoneering, but not much elsewhere.

The least likely thing, but the one that people seem to be freaking out about, is the outright removal of “Crit. Damage +%” on armor. They could do that, but I really don’t expect them to – there are too many prefix types that involve it.

Now, if they were to address the root of the problem (no need for non DPS anywhere in the pve game) we’d have something different. What they should do:

-increase some mobs toughness by a large margin, while lowering their HP. This makes condition damage more useful.

-introduce mobs who continually chain retaliation on themselves. Having debuffing becomes essential.

-change mob AI so that when a group is stacked up meleeing in a spot, the critters move to range and start hitting HARD. Suddenly CC becomes important.

if they do those 3, while simultaneously reducing the crit damage cap to the pvp cap, we’ll see an increase in build diversity – especially among skip-everything-exploit-it-all dungeon groups. Balanced groups, no 5 dps or 4 dps + ele for weapons, would become more efficient.

You guys realize that, in the linked thread, the silvermember dude has a better grasp on what balance is than anyone else yammering, right?

I see a few options for balancing the berserker issue without destroying everything.

-make all the major bosses like Teq and others who are immune to crit damage.

-have berserker armor follow the same cap as in PvP.

-increase armor on all mobs, increase their general damage output, and reduce the number of 1 hit kills that must be dodged. (This would be my preferred approach).

-have mobs that buff themselves/their allies with retaliation

-introduce mobs that are weak against specific conditions

-tweak enemy AI so that when everyone stacks up in melee range, they use some kind of knockback skill, or actively move out of range

I’m sure there are other ways to make more diversity desirable without taking the nerfbat to the gearline.

Also, for the OP – the only situation wherein a free gear swap would make sense would be if they outright removed “Crit. Damage +%” from gear.

Oh, something else I forgot – there was massive support for the idea of having ascended gear have a stat-swap ability. ie: go to a crafting station, and be able to change the inscription that is on your armor. This alone would make all crying about “dey brok ma gears!” moot.

Judge Banks.9018:

NCSOFT UNVEILS ARENANET’S HIGHLY-ANTICIPATED COMPETITIVE ROLE PLAYING GAME, GUILD WARS

The thing that stings the most is the fact that they were able to deliver on their promises. . . what happened?

greed happened.

Tengu
Tengu
Tengu.

If we could have the quaggans and sylvari wage a war of mutual genocide, that’d be nice too. (Sorry, getting sick of all the cute that oozes out of every single part of a world that’s in peril because a dragon is bringing the dead back to life.)

Wow, you people clamoring about getting free replacement armour are daft. They’re talking about changing how mob encounters and dungeons are set up, and possibly capping crit chance. They’re not outright destroying the gear.

/facepalm.

I’d bend the other way for normalizing the traits. Have all weapon reduction traits have a secondary effect, and put them in master tier. Have all utility reduction traits in adept, and move their secondary effect to the master level trait.

IE: ranger traps would have

-adept tier; traps recharge 20% faster.
-master tier; conditions from traps last twice as long and traps cause 100% more direct damage (the second part being a personal wish for traps)
-grandmaster tier; traps now use ground targeting.

Good lord – ele is probably the second weakest class, next to ranger, and you’re upset about it? Mobility – it got nerfed, and nerfed again, and finally they gutted RtL – all because people were too stupid to pack CC skills.

Damage wise, outside of FGS, ele’s are… well, bad. The skills are slow, telegraphed, and mostly don’t hit very hard.

Healing – well, with the lowest base health AND armor in the game, and no real class defense (guardian protection/aegis, thief stealth, mesmer clones, warrior’s high armour/health/healsig, necro has DS…. need I go on?) ele’s NEED to be able to heal and condition cleanse like a mofo – and even that got nerfed.

Stars and stones, but burnfall’s post (assuming he’s not trolling) is painfully wrong.

Palaryel.2463:

Valdur.2679:

zerk meta can be nerfed very easily by putting a cap of 50% to critical damage. conditions are caped at 25 per condition, why shouldn’t zerkers be caped at 50% crit damage? (you can only be allowed to do double damage – 200% – not 270% like now. :P

interesting idea, no? it will force the zerkers to look into conditions builds and make a more balanced build if they want to go full offensive. they will have to use damage AND condition damage to be able to achieve similar results. (now zerkers will chop my head with their buffed 270% damage increase. i already wrote my testament, lived a full and rewarding life so go ahead: kill me!)

PS: also cap the crit chance at 50% so going full precision won’t help you. that way ppl will have more balanced builds.

Actually, what you suggested would make things worse. The better solution would be to decrease monster total HP, increase monster Armor (condition damage bypasses armor, so it is more effective against high armored monsters), and reworks conditions to do a bit more damage than they do now.

Also, making monsters hit faster for less damage makes people want more passive mitigation (HP and/or armor). So what others already explained above, they should make monsters hit faster for small numbers (250-1000/hit) and have K.O. skills on a longer cooldown, maybe also add a few cleave attacks.

kyubi.3620:

Ask anyone whos actualy running tank build but theres actualy diminishing returns to running armor over 3k, it may take variable amount of toughness depending on the class but the actual effective sweet spot is always 3k.

precision isnt capped and so does critical damage and if theres a cap id like you to actualy post it so that everyone stop running full zerker for nothing XD (the very fact you can run full zerker proves there is no cap to those stats)

kyubi.3620:

Ask anyone whos actualy running tank build but theres actualy diminishing returns to running armor over 3k, it may take variable amount of toughness depending on the class but the actual effective sweet spot is always 3k.

precision isnt capped and so does critical damage and if theres a cap id like you to actualy post it so that everyone stop running full zerker for nothing XD (the very fact you can run full zerker proves there is no cap to those stats)

Precision by itself is not capped, thats true, however, crit chance is capped at 100%, so the effective precision cap would be whatever number would get you to 100% after food/sigils/runes/… (and after fury if your group can run it permanently), everything above that soft cap would be a waste.

Also, someone wrote about toughness/vitality caps, toughness is soft capped at around 3k, as getting anything above that is giving you very little in return, while theoretically more of it will always be an improvement, the actual improvement would be to small to make it worth it. Vitality has no cap, and should not ever have a cap, it isnt logical to put a cap on vitality, players can adjust their vitality based on how much armor they have and based on their playstyle.

Power has no cap at all, but is a linear function, resulting in a steady increase for a particular amount of power based on your level, as such (theoretically) it would be the best dump stat (followed by vitality) for your leftover points once you have covered all your other needs. Sadly, considering the current state of the game, power along with precision and crit damage is the only viable PVE stat for reasons described above.

+1. Dude, you’re suggestion would WORK – that puts it above 99% of the posts in this thread.