Guild Wars 2

The way I understand this is that skill points will be replaced with hero points and that they will be limited. Additional skill points we’ve gathered will be refunded with Mystic Forge mats and the same goes with repeatable sources of skill points (scrolls?).

Correct me if I’m wrong plz, English isn’t my first language.

Tigaseye.2047:

tramwajarz.2369:

After reading all the posts filled with no respect to anyone, people entitled to have a spot in parties even though they don’t match requirements, people that demand to cater to new/bad players like it’s a job I get the feeling nothing is going to change. The mentality of so many people is broken to the level of socialism.

Do you even know what socialism is?

I doubt it.

Try at least googling it, before you mention it again, please.

Google told me socialism is evil and I don’t want it in GW2.

Jana.6831:

Einlanzer.1627:

Jana.6831:

Einlanzer.1627:

tramwajarz.2369:

Einlanzer.1627:

The way it should work IMO is that healing power and boon duration should have better synergy than they do currently so that, while you can’t make a 100% healer per se, you should be able to make a close to 100% effective support build. Only the Guardian can come anywhere close to that currently and even then it’s dubious.

and what 100% support build does better than e.g. normal build traited and slotted with appropriate utilities?

That’s the point. Almost all support currently is tied up with offense, which is weird. Support should be better distributed and balanced so that it would be feasible to make effective non-DPS builds.

I see it being 4 soft roles (or specialties) – dps, mitigation, boons, control. You should at baseline be good at any 2 of those roles, with some ability to hybridize into more and end up with at least a moderately effective character. A support character would be someone who was heavily focused on healing and boons, or healing and control.

Granted, it would be difficult to balance, but they could do a much better job than they have to this point.

But I like to be able to do everything with any class I’m using?
I like to solo stuff, I like to heal, support, kill without looking at someone in my party saying “YO; DO YOUR JOB!!”

What I’m talking about would not disrupt that. If you like to do a little of everything, then you’re hybridizing your build in the game currently instead of focusing too much on any one area. You’d still be able to do that in what I proposed above.

No, the trick is that I don’t have to spec into anything to do everything. I’m pure dps and can still heal, still give boons, still support – and I think that’s great.

That is also my point and I agree completely. Spec goes only for gear. Gear is not a build. Traits and skills are build. Gear can only buff some choices you made while making a build.

I’m very disappointed that some professions are getting two-handed weapons and some only offhands. kitten , eles with their swords are getting 12 new skills. Why some professions are getting too much love while others are unwanted kids?

I’m actually a little excited as well as worried.
I hope that specialization tracks won’t be a boring grind.

mtpelion.4562:

tramwajarz.2369:

mtpelion.4562:

tramwajarz.2369:

After reading all the posts filled with no respect to anyone, people entitled to have a spot in parties even though they don’t match requirements, people that demand to cater to new/bad players like it’s a job I get the feeling nothing is going to change. The mentality of so many people is broken to the level of socialism.

That field says “description” not “requirements”. The problem is that you are using it wrong.

It is a description where I can write my requirements. No player is entitled to party with me if I don’t want to as well as I am not entitled to go into someone’s party if I’m not up to their requirements.

Actually, every player in the game has the right to join any party that is listed in the LFG. That’s the nature of using the LFG, you actually have literally no say whatsoever in who decides to click join.

That’s why Party Leader system is a must be to eradicate those who have no respect to other prople’s requirements and ignore simple information given in the description.

Einlanzer.1627:

The way it should work IMO is that healing power and boon duration should have better synergy than they do currently so that, while you can’t make a 100% healer per se, you should be able to make a close to 100% effective support build. Only the Guardian can come anywhere close to that currently and even then it’s dubious.

and what 100% support build does better than e.g. normal build traited and slotted with appropriate utilities?

The game is so much better than GW2. However it’s also a previous generation CoRPG so I understand that some people may not like it. For me Guild Wars 1 i a legendary game, a one of a kind, a legend that GW2 probably never be.

mtpelion.4562:

tramwajarz.2369:

After reading all the posts filled with no respect to anyone, people entitled to have a spot in parties even though they don’t match requirements, people that demand to cater to new/bad players like it’s a job I get the feeling nothing is going to change. The mentality of so many people is broken to the level of socialism.

That field says “description” not “requirements”. The problem is that you are using it wrong.

It is a description where I can write my requirements. No player is entitled to party with me if I don’t want to as well as I am not entitled to go into someone’s party if I’m not up to their requirements.

Who needs hacks when you can get a perma steralth bug in pvp.

Actually I am surprised thoe areas don’t count to map completion. For me all those additional maps are totally redundant and I usually don’t walk there (unless I’m redoing living story).

Ele’s strong point is versatility. They can fullfil support and dps role very effectively.
However they don’t have all the tricks required to survive a dungeon. Of course it’s possible to play 5 eles however more than 2 is redundant. Phalanx warrior and thieves give a lot of value to the party (talking dungeons).

Ele is one of celestial classes therefore they get a lot of hate from non skilled players. They are bursty but as every other profession/build you have to play around their abilities to win. I can see no problem with them in pvp, I don’t even like this profession but I don’t have more trouble with elementalists than I have with other professions (on the same player skill level).

WvW is a silly mode for me so I’m not going to discuss eles from this perspective.

Jerus.4350:

Cuddy.6247:

Jerus.4350:

If AC bosses lasted half as long as HOTW bosses, we wouldn’t be in this situation.

But AC isn’t designed for high levels. Buy some level 35 masterwork, or even rare, gear and say that AC bosses don’t last a little while. When we all run low level dungeons in level 80 exotics, the results are disingenuous to the difficulty scale they were making the dungeon. There’s no balance that can be found to make it a reasonable effort for a team of players level 35-45, while still requiring effort from level 80s.

Addressing scaling would be a good start. They did that a few weeks back and people raged, but I thought it was a great idea. Should only hurt those that are above what the dungeon is based around.

So, yeah you’re right, but I’d not suggest they raise the hp of AC enemies, but that they address the scaling so we have our damage cut for the scaled down characters, not those trying to do it at the correct level. Scaling will never make it completely equal, but right now it’s pretty insane.

It was a bug therefore it was fixed. Don’t spread misinformation.

spoj.9672:

The other solution is make dungeons all level 80. And then maybe scale players up.

That would be amazing. Make all story dungeons a personal story steps (like they’re going to do with Arah) and scale all explorables to lvl 80. This way new players won’t get a wrong impression that they are not welcome at lvl 35 dungeon and the difficulty will be paired with 80s.

Pants Are Dangerous.2079:

Healers in this game are not viable because the very few skills that can heal other players are often under powered. ArenaNet says its a design choice to avoid the holy trinity but I think there is also another reason.

Currently there is a heavy emphasis that in PvE damage is more viable than healing (and for good reasons). As a consequence in fights players will try to maximise damage while self sustaining. If a player was to excel in healing other players then they would no longer have to worry about surviving the fight thus making the game easier.

This would create a disparity between groups with a healer and groups without a healer.
Arenanet would have to either leave the content as it is or increase it’s difficulty making it unplayable without a healer. I think ArenaNet is afraid of this.

But I disagree with this. As players can switch there builds in mid game this means that each players in a group could swap roles at any time as long as each professions is given a viable alternate support role. Hence ArenaNet should crank up the heals.

No, because that would force people to use certain builds which is a crime against free will and diversity and Arena Net as far as I remember is all about allowing everyone to succeedd on his own rules.

After reading all the posts filled with no respect to anyone, people entitled to have a spot in parties even though they don’t match requirements, people that demand to cater to new/bad players like it’s a job I get the feeling nothing is going to change. The mentality of so many people is broken to the level of socialism.

I agree with OP. Some new information would be kewl.

@ mr andred – chill

Satenia.9025:

tramwajarz.2369:

James Quall.6029:

tramwajarz.2369:

That’s because after almost 3 years of no significant PvE content, we learned and mastered what we have. The same goes about professions. Once we get new content we are going to learn it until we master it like old content. This is how games work. And berserker builds in PvE are rewarding for those able and willing to learn the content.

I don’t think that (at least for pve) there is or was really any place at all for characters geared specifically to be tough and that high/pure damage builds have always been the best option, regardless of how long it has been since there has been content released or how long it has been released for.

You can gear yourself to take a lickin and keep on tickin, but at the end of the day a person in soldier/cleric/nomad armor not dying is always going to be severely outperformed by a berserker character who is also not dying because they know how to dodge or use built in evades on attacks or blocks or invulnerability skills or projectile reflects. There is just never an unmanageable danger that requires you to have more life or armor.

If a zerk player is skilled enough to outplay the encounter it is totally okay in my book.
The better the player, the better the reward should be.

Basically, the point of berserker builds is to minimize the time required to kill a foe and with that the duration of the actual encounter. Due to that, the encounter becomes trivialized and potentially requires less skill of the individual player than it might if the encounters were longer.

Therefore, playing berserker builds is about routine and knowing the encounters, but not so much about skill.

Watch the video posted in this thread about facetanking fractals 50 geared full cleric’s. Come back after and apologise for calling zerkers trivial.

EcoRI.9273:

They just need to give icebow and glyph of storm the FGS treatment and then everything will be fine.

Let’s kill some more skills so we can autoattack only.

On serious note, as always, after FB nerf the only players punished will be random pugs that have no idea what they’re doing. Organised dungeoneers will tune and adapt.

Rauderi.8706:

Eh, just code all the bosses as objects, like Tequatl. Crits won’t happen, so 2/3 of zerk is pointless.

Then everyone will use Soldier gear, which has no easy way to earn (better do those Guild Missions, boyos!), or maybe 1 of 5 dungeon runners will have a condi build.

That’ll fix everything.

I know it’s a sarcasm but in case a dev comes here (I know they won’t) disabling a game mechanic is the worst possible solution. They did it with marlona and reflects. Good job. Like skills or traits don’t matter, just smash it with dps and dodge attacks. This would be even worse than it is.

Jerus.4350:

EcoRI.9273:

I hate to say this but seriously in the current meta, you don’t need to blast might, you don’t need to dodge, you don’t need to do dps rotations. Things will still melt.

True in the majority of dungeons. Jump into COE/Arah/Fractals and that’s not so true.

+1

James Quall.6029:

tramwajarz.2369:

That’s because after almost 3 years of no significant PvE content, we learned and mastered what we have. The same goes about professions. Once we get new content we are going to learn it until we master it like old content. This is how games work. And berserker builds in PvE are rewarding for those able and willing to learn the content.

I don’t think that (at least for pve) there is or was really any place at all for characters geared specifically to be tough and that high/pure damage builds have always been the best option, regardless of how long it has been since there has been content released or how long it has been released for.

You can gear yourself to take a lickin and keep on tickin, but at the end of the day a person in soldier/cleric/nomad armor not dying is always going to be severely outperformed by a berserker character who is also not dying because they know how to dodge or use built in evades on attacks or blocks or invulnerability skills or projectile reflects. There is just never an unmanageable danger that requires you to have more life or armor.

If a zerk player is skilled enough to outplay the encounter it is totally okay in my book.
The better the player, the better the reward should be.

James Quall.6029:

You don’t really need survivability stats in pve if you play smart and know how the encounters work, so gearing up for that holds your damage back. That’s why berserker equipment is so dominant in pve because it is so hard to argue that anything else is better/more efficient.

It’s really too bad that the game can easily be reduced like that but that is the state we’re at.

That’s because after almost 3 years of no significant PvE content, we learned and mastered what we have. The same goes about professions. Once we get new content we are going to learn it until we master it like old content. This is how games work. And berserker builds in PvE are rewarding for those able and willing to learn the content.

Stars.2179:

Nadya.4250:

…
3 people join, 2 ele & 1 necro all under 3k ap, I let them know that I really don’t feel up to teaching the run this late at night and can they bring heavy armored classes…

Doesn’t seem very nice nor helpful to me. On the other note, he could have invited a guildie as a spot holder

Read the rest of the thread, I’ve already talked about those “guild” arguments.

He wasn’t in a teaching mood and he stated it. It is not his job to teach ignorant players how to finish the path. He asked them to get other professions if they can. He tried to communicate and he was rewarded with a kick. From his own instance. This is terrible and this is why the system should be changed. This way everybody can be harassed. I can join with my guild a “everybody welcome” LFG post and with 2 more friends kick the creator. This is against logic. This is why party leader is a “must be” function in multiplayer game, especially when we’re talking pug environment.

berserker’s is a gear stat of power/precision/ferocity

builds created with those stats are called berserker builds, they are a mix of dps/support skills and traits allowing you to kill faster if you are skilled enough to time your cleanses, aegises and other supportive abilities

Stars.2179:

tramwajarz.2369:

mtpelion.4562:

Every member of the party has an equal right to the instance. If a majority of players want to remove you from the instance, that is their right.

The “party leader” is an elitist misnomer. No one has any more right to the party or the instance than any other person.

I fully disagree. When I create a party and make requirements for it, it is my right to moderate my own party. Those people who joined me agreed to be my guests. Noone is entitled for instances or a place in a party. Those who are afraid of being guests would be able to create their own parties and be “immune” to other participants.

Instances is not open world facebook farm. There are so many people entitled to do whatever they want they don’t even care to read LFG descriptions. Those players should feel bad.

I fully disagree. Sound like an elitist dictator to me. No one has more right than any others in a group. No one is entitled to own an instance either (except his home instance). If you want to make sure ppl don’t kick you be nice and helpful.

If you don’t want your party to be taken over by ignorant ppl, get a majority and have you and your friends control the majority.

If you are the minority it’s your fault to be a jerk to be kicked.

When I sell duo Arah, I always make sure that we control the majority by putting in my alt account in the party. That way I don’t get kicked. :P

The case is the OP was nice and helpful and was kicked from his own instance for suggesting a little change to the party. At this point I think he should feel entitled to the instance he managed to duo until Lupicus.

If he was a party leader he would be safe from those ‘elitist jerks’ you are calling me.

Mantheren.5428:

I partially disagree, people might have equal rights if they all started together.
As soon as people start being invited after it has started they have less rights than that original group of starters in my book.

Point taken. I think I agree with you on this.

NTDK.4897:

yolo swaggins.2570:

1.) Because there is no indication to the kicked player as to who kicked them. Most of the time the player’s chats during the instance are removed only reinforcing the fact there is no indication to the who kicked and why.

doesn’t it show who kicks who now? it’s a system message so it doesnt get cleared when you are kicked. You can report by right click the name there.

Of course it does show votes now. The OP should do some research.

Personally I don’t care about reason of a kick because it changes absolutely nothing. Someone votes for kick for whatever, the others accept or not. Trust me, people won’t bother reading it.

EcoRI.9273:

tramwajarz.2369:

EcoRI.9273:

tramwajarz.2369:

EcoRI.9273:

I am all for berserker builds and I am all for only skilled players should be able to make the best use out of berserker builds. But that just isn’t the case in the current state of PvE and especially in dungeons. Currently this is the easiest way of clearing dungeons and involves very little skill play.
1Guardian/ 1 Phalanx Str Warrior/ 1Thief/ 2Staff eles.
1: Stealth through all mobs to go to boss.(Save all your long cooldowns)
2: Guardian use aegis before boss becomes active. Warrior just spam Greatsword and drop banners. 2Staff eles does Glyph of Storm Lightning swap to fire, ice bow 5-4. And boss is dead.

You don’t get hit and there is very little active play and you have literally buffed your party’s DPS significantly by doing almost nothing but spamming, it is very scripted and you can literally teach anyone who is willing to learn this type of strategy.

TL:DR you don’t need to be a skilled player to play berserker builds effectively.

You would be amazed how many ppl have no idea what their skills do.
And still zerk is not the easiest. There was already fractal 50 video posted with full cleric party facerolling content. That’s trivial.

P.S. casting aegis before boss goes active is wrong because it can be shattered by autoattack living party vulnerable to one-hit shot.

Ignorance =/= bad players.

Precasting aegis is the right way of playing the game at the moment. This ensures that every1 is at 100% hp for scholar buff during the icebow freeze instant nuke phase. And it also gives guardian 20%more dps with unscathed contender making the nuke phase even stronger.

Actually the ignorance is followed by bad gameplay. Look at all the pugs still stacking at FGS spots. They have no clue what they’re doing and why.

The situation you are describing is a reward for good, organised players.
“We know the encounter, we are prepared for it, we execute our plan, we succeed faster than others”.

Yes I agree with that but the thing is those habits can be corrected very easily. My problem is that the meta is too easy to learn and does not require much skill to learn them.

Not so many people is eager to do so, so why should I care about those scrubs?
Those who are willing to learn have a very warm and cosy spot in my heart.

mtpelion.4562:

Every member of the party has an equal right to the instance. If a majority of players want to remove you from the instance, that is their right.

The “party leader” is an elitist misnomer. No one has any more right to the party or the instance than any other person.

I fully disagree. When I create a party and make requirements for it, it is my right to moderate my own party. Those people who joined me agreed to be my guests. Noone is entitled for instances or a place in a party. Those who are afraid of being guests would be able to create their own parties and be “immune” to other participants.

Instances is not open world facebook farm. There are so many people entitled to do whatever they want they don’t even care to read LFG descriptions. Those players should feel bad.

EcoRI.9273:

tramwajarz.2369:

EcoRI.9273:

I am all for berserker builds and I am all for only skilled players should be able to make the best use out of berserker builds. But that just isn’t the case in the current state of PvE and especially in dungeons. Currently this is the easiest way of clearing dungeons and involves very little skill play.
1Guardian/ 1 Phalanx Str Warrior/ 1Thief/ 2Staff eles.
1: Stealth through all mobs to go to boss.(Save all your long cooldowns)
2: Guardian use aegis before boss becomes active. Warrior just spam Greatsword and drop banners. 2Staff eles does Glyph of Storm Lightning swap to fire, ice bow 5-4. And boss is dead.

You don’t get hit and there is very little active play and you have literally buffed your party’s DPS significantly by doing almost nothing but spamming, it is very scripted and you can literally teach anyone who is willing to learn this type of strategy.

TL:DR you don’t need to be a skilled player to play berserker builds effectively.

You would be amazed how many ppl have no idea what their skills do.
And still zerk is not the easiest. There was already fractal 50 video posted with full cleric party facerolling content. That’s trivial.

P.S. casting aegis before boss goes active is wrong because it can be shattered by autoattack living party vulnerable to one-hit shot.

Ignorance =/= bad players.

Precasting aegis is the right way of playing the game at the moment. This ensures that every1 is at 100% hp for scholar buff during the icebow freeze instant nuke phase. And it also gives guardian 20%more dps with unscathed contender making the nuke phase even stronger.

Actually the ignorance is followed by bad gameplay. Look at all the pugs still stacking at FGS spots. They have no clue what they’re doing and why.

The situation you are describing is a reward for good, organised players.
“We know the encounter, we are prepared for it, we execute our plan, we succeed faster than others”.

EcoRI.9273:

I am all for berserker builds and I am all for only skilled players should be able to make the best use out of berserker builds. But that just isn’t the case in the current state of PvE and especially in dungeons. Currently this is the easiest way of clearing dungeons and involves very little skill play.
1Guardian/ 1 Phalanx Str Warrior/ 1Thief/ 2Staff eles.
1: Stealth through all mobs to go to boss.(Save all your long cooldowns)
2: Guardian use aegis before boss becomes active. Warrior just spam Greatsword and drop banners. 2Staff eles does Glyph of Storm Lightning swap to fire, ice bow 5-4. And boss is dead.

You don’t get hit and there is very little active play and you have literally buffed your party’s DPS significantly by doing almost nothing but spamming, it is very scripted and you can literally teach anyone who is willing to learn this type of strategy.

TL:DR you don’t need to be a skilled player to play berserker builds effectively.

You would be amazed how many ppl have no idea what their skills do.
And still zerk is not the easiest. There was already fractal 50 video posted with full cleric party facerolling content. That’s trivial.

P.S. casting aegis before boss goes active is wrong because it can be shattered by autoattack living party vulnerable to one-hit shot.

Crimson Clouds.4853:

I really like the idea that the “instance owner” would require an extra kick compared to other party members. It seems to be the best of both worlds.

The problem here is that new members to the party are kicking the original members. Make it more difficult for the new members to kick the original ones, then?

For example, there should be a timer before a new member can vote to kick any of the original members. This could be proportionate to the time that has already been spent in the instance. This would mean that it is much more difficult for a new member to kick all original members if they join just before the end-boss of a dungeon.

Alternately, if a new member votes to kick an original member, it would require an original member to accept the vote. This would need more development as it would have to be balanced in terms of how many people are in the party and ratio of new:old members.

Other than this being a solution, perhaps we should all be looking at the problem from a different perspective?

What if there was more of a penalty for kicking a player/joining at the end of an instance?

-Perhaps a person is limited to the amount of kicks/votes they have per instance/per unit of time?
-Perhaps rewards get scaled for everybody depending on the amount of times kicking has occured during the dungeon?
-What about the end chest reward scaling to the events/tasks completed in the dungeon? If a player has been in the instance from the beginning (and thus completed the tasks), they will get the full dungeon reward at the end whereas a player who joined before the end-boss will get a proportionately smaller reward (e.g. a champ bag, 1/5th of the gold+token reward).

reward scaling is a problem because of random DCs that happens in this game to often and we know that this would reset progress (because for game you left the instance).

power / prec / fer

sword/dagger or staff

sMihaly.1492:

tramwajarz.2369:

sMihaly.1492:

what if… ppl with insufficient AP would’nt be able to see AP restricted LFGs

There should be a way to select requirements in lfg so only characteres that match those criteria could see and join said LFG post.

AP is a terrible “skill” measure

I agree it is. But what else we have. I don’t see how the LFG would check one’s gear and traits, or experience.

but it should do exactly this; you should have a box to select e.g. stat combo + gear minimal tier; then you select checkbox with path and you can fill additional info in description

Astralporing.1957:

Scoobaniec.9561:

Enjoy your game where everyone and their mom abuse party system by kicking out and stealing instances as they cant be punishment for such things. You can do it youself, ask 2 friends to join someone whos selling arah pX, kick him = ? = profit.

…and then you get banned by Anet. Great idea indeed.

Lol indeed because I know at least 4 regular instance stealers that run around in LA and laugh in faces of regular dungeoneers.

sMihaly.1492:

what if… ppl with insufficient AP would’nt be able to see AP restricted LFGs

There should be a way to select requirements in lfg so only characteres that match those criteria could see and join said LFG post.

AP is a terrible “skill” measure

Don’t be so snarky. Maybe devs are trying to get to the Lupicus and check what’s happening but pugs keep kicking them for not being zerk?

Where do you get your knowledge about HoT content?
Because there wasn’t much in news yet and when I played beta event, the so-called “boss” wyvern was like any other world boss – avoid 1 attack, pew pew like no tomorrow.

Oxidia.8103:

I guess everybody is so fast to forget so many times in the past when party leader rage quit and everybody was kicked from the instance. Also the fact instance owners had tendency to be gluteuses just because they couldn’t be kicked.

On the other hand situation like presented in the OP most likely wouldnt happen because kids that joined OP didnt want to loose half finished instance.

Amount of buyers always goes up shortly after sale.

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

tramwajarz.2369:

I can’t fix but I think it’s obvious for both of us

What I would do, as a developer – make party creator more important than other members, mostly because it’s his party, he’s making requirements for it so people agree to join him on his rules so he should be superior to them. Party leader would be a 2-vote heavy person, so when kicking he would need only 1 more vote to kick someone (so we can at least try to prevent people from destroying parties before selling solo). However party leader won’t be immune to vote kick but it would require all other members to agree to kick him.

This way it seems more fair for people starting parties on lfg, to feel safer. What we need to do is to consider a pug situation, not sellers situation, because selling is not a feature of the game.

Or better yet, but pretty hardcore – a player starting a party could choose a mark “disable vote kicks” so other people know there will be no kicking in this party and can join it or avoid it.

So what stops this new system from being exploited similarly to the old 2-vote system? Person A starts the group and is now party leader. He makes sure to bring 1 trusted friend or guildie, and 3 pugs. They run the dungeon, then at the end proceed to kick the 3 pugs to sell those spots. There is nothing to stop them since the leader counts as 2, and the friend makes the 3rd for a majority vote.

Or, as in the OPs scenario, those 3 pugs are friends, and in fear of being kicked due to the power of the party leader, they opt to beat him to the punch and the 3 of them vote him out. Then when the party leader’s friend objects, they oust him too.

It should still only require a majority vote to remove a party leader. Making it so ‘all 4 others’ are required can be abused too openly by simply having that 1 friend to block that kick. It makes it too easy for the leader to then drop those pugs, negating all the effort they put forth to begin with.

You end up in the same boat we’re in presently.

Additionally, by removing the ability to kick during the run means that if someone disconnects, you may have 10 or 15 minutes of just waiting for the game to drop them from the party before you can re-fill that spot. Or they could just opt to be a total kitten and go afk on you too.

You can’t just ‘ignore’ that people sell paths. Anet has essentially said they’re ok with it, it’s simply a service people offer. Just as they’ve said they are ok with speed clears. It wasn’t specifically how the intended for things to go, but there is nothing ‘wrong’ with it per se, either. Now, yes, I believe its been called out that being booted so that the person can then sell your spot is reportable, but it still happens.

Anet said it’s not bannable to sell paths but they are not going to support it. In this case, when someone is being kicked for no reason he can always submit a ticket.
This is what is happening now but I don’t really believe anything is happening to scammers.

From my point of view, when people create parties they should have a right to prevent their spot in parties. This is ‘their’ party. When other people join opened parties they accept they are guests. This is common sense to me. However in Guild Wars 2 the OP is a guest in his own party. This is madness.

mtpelion.4562:

When you use LFG, you get no say in who winds up in your party.

I understand that playing at 2AM means you probably don’t have any friends online to help you, but you gambled and lost.

LFG shouldn’t be gamble.

I can’t fix but I think it’s obvious for both of us

What I would do, as a developer – make party creator more important than other members, mostly because it’s his party, he’s making requirements for it so people agree to join him on his rules so he should be superior to them. Party leader would be a 2-vote heavy person, so when kicking he would need only 1 more vote to kick someone (so we can at least try to prevent people from destroying parties before selling solo). However party leader won’t be immune to vote kick but it would require all other members to agree to kick him.

This way it seems more fair for people starting parties on lfg, to feel safer. What we need to do is to consider a pug situation, not sellers situation, because selling is not a feature of the game.

Or better yet, but pretty hardcore – a player starting a party could choose a mark “disable vote kicks” so other people know there will be no kicking in this party and can join it or avoid it.

Okay, thank you both for clarification. Yes, there is no perfect system. However I don’t find current system to be better than old one. People were always complaining about random kicks from parties. Old days you could say “start your own instance”. Today you are saying “find 2 other people to cancel the kick”. Which one is easier to do especially for people that play solo or in pairs? Because I remember reading an article stating and proving that vast majority of mmo players are playing solo most of the time, which means (IF true) that well designed and mostly flawless party system should be crucial in a multiplayer game.

If you want healers to matter, remove all skills number 6

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

tramwajarz.2369:

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

tramwajarz.2369:

What I can’t understand is when I open an instance and start a party/LFG alone or with 1 friend, I have totally 0 control over my own party. This is lack of common sense during designing process.

I don’t really see how this is any different than say…WoW’s dungeon LFG tool. You have 0 control over the people you end up that way too. At best you know you’ll have a tank, a healer, and 3 dps. (Unless they’ve changed something since I last played, which was some time ago).

If you want complete control over your party, then I would think that you would be building your team with trusted friends and guild members. Not pugging via the LFG.

I would agree with your point if only I could make requirements on LFG, so random ppl not matching my req can’t join. But because we don’t have this option, kicks are only way to solve issues in parties. This is dumb.

Lol, like you have any control over it in other games. Cmon now. Even in WoW someone can select ‘tank’ when they aren’t really. I ran into that a few times death knights (which, I’m aware can be good tanks when set up properly).

Even in GW1 you couldn’t guarantee the person that joined your group would match the reqs you post in the lfg. Hell, if they pinged the exact bar and such you wanted, didn’t mean they didn’t swap it out after (something we see here in GW2 as well).

If you want to guarantee that the person you’re running with is exactly what you desire, then you shouldn’t be pugging. Pugging is a mixed bag and we all know it.

So you’re claming that game x and game y have bad implementations in their system so GW2 is entitled to bad design decisions?

Actually I stopped puging at all. PUG community in this game developed no respect and no skill attitude for 3 years now. However, I understand the case OP is stating and I fully support people voicing their need to make party system better.

The case is, we will never hear anything from Anet about this until one day they will announce a random change. Or not.

Selling dungeons has nothing to do with it. OP wanted to do normal instance, tried duo and then asked for help and was kicked because of terrible design decision made by developer(s).

Algreg.3629:

the most important question in my opinion hasn´t been answered in any of these threads: Why exactly?

Because playing healer is cool I think.

The reason why these threads pop up is because people don’t understand this game and instead of learning it they want to make it more typical, boring trinity mmo.

And because search function on forums is not working.

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

tramwajarz.2369:

What I can’t understand is when I open an instance and start a party/LFG alone or with 1 friend, I have totally 0 control over my own party. This is lack of common sense during designing process.

I don’t really see how this is any different than say…WoW’s dungeon LFG tool. You have 0 control over the people you end up that way too. At best you know you’ll have a tank, a healer, and 3 dps. (Unless they’ve changed something since I last played, which was some time ago).

If you want complete control over your party, then I would think that you would be building your team with trusted friends and guild members. Not pugging via the LFG.

I would agree with your point if only I could make requirements on LFG, so random ppl not matching my req can’t join. But because we don’t have this option, kicks are only way to solve issues in parties. This is dumb.

Draknar.5748:

I think a decent solution would be, once you get to a certain point (and have been in dungeon from the start) and you are kicked, that you are put into a duplicate instance by yourself, with the same progress made. That way you can invite other people and pick up where you left off.

I’m sure there will be ways to abuse this, but at the very least being kicked wouldn’t be a complete slap to the face.

I would take my full guild party, progress instance to the last boss, kick each other so other 4 can start 4 new almost finished instances, sell spots, share profit.

Never going to happen, sorry.