Guild Wars 2

DoctorOverlord.8620:

But good luck starting that meme. Because you need an game-breaking error experienced by the majority of the playerbase and so far, that just hasn’t happened no matter what people say.

That or a LOT of haters…

The easiest MeMe I could prolly make would revolve around saying::
“Guild Wars 2 = TES Clone.”
or
“ANet, 5 years to make a console port”

Either of those sentence’s would be more than enough ta get them going

But I digress…

You are right in one area tho, that a LOT of people need to experience something for a meme to “stick” and right now, I’m not sure enough people still care bout GW2 for a meme to make an impact.

At the end of the day, there are still people like the OP that like GW2 enough to post a “concern topic” ~ but the majority of the forums won’t see it as anything more than either a flame or troll topic, for or against their own bias towards GW2.

IE: Kindling for the fire.

ah well, back to my meme’s ~

Originally posted on REDDIT:: http://www.reddit.com/r/guildwars2funny/comments/1293k1/meme_challenge_anet_5_years_to_make_a_console_port/

Ok, so one of the major complaints against GW2 is that there is "no endgame".

However, anytime someone says "that"... they’re flooded by rage posts of fans saying that "it’s not the games fault YOU rushed" or that "YOU are playing GW2 wrong".

Perhaps... perhaps there is some logic in that argument tho?

Think about it.. haven’t we played a game VERY similar to GW2 before?.. in fact haven’t we played MANY games like GW2 before?

Games like Assassins Creed, Fable, Oblivion, Skyrim, Fallout and even to some extent Legend of Zelda and Kingdoms of Amalur...

lol, based of aesthetics alone.. you could call GW2 a TES clone

Yet.. ArenaNet tout GW2 as an "revolutionary" MMO and more and more people wind up confused and disappointed come lv80...

So my challenge to the community, create a Meme around the idea that GW2 is a console port!

If you need ideas or examples of "why" GW2 isn’t an MMO ~ check out the comments from the 25th of October from this MMORPG.com article:: http://www.mmorpg.com/blogs/swordmark45/102012/24078

GO FORTH MY MINIONS, AND SPREAD THE WORD!

Xirin.8593:

AlexanderFaust.4518:

…

You want educated discourse? How about providing accurate facts and not sensationalizing to attempt to provide credence to your stance? See below…

Chris.7653:

3 day head start servers went down for 8-12 hours if I remember correctly….

Sorry, you don’t remember correctly.

Chris.7653:

Every time you turn around it’s a bugged event, bugged skill point, bugged quest bug bug bug bug…

This is not constructive criticism, by the way.

Cute, but my post wasn’t aimed at you

TL;DR
Bugs, bots, broken skills and events are all over the place ~ The OP addressed this problem and its association with the newest “content” and patches.

Thus, due to people attacking the OP ~ I suggested that he not waste his time here and instead, take his “problems” to the masses.

If you don’t like that… then too bad. I can’t even count how many Holiday events I’ve played in other MMOS over the years that were just as grand in scale (if not bigger) that had ZERO problems with their execution ~ let alone as the rest of the game suffer from months of old bugs.

But like I said, my suggestion was to the OP in that he spend his time more wisely than posting in shark infested waters.

Chris.7653:

AlexanderFaust.4518:

@Chris
Don’t worry bout all the “knights” in this thread, while you do have a valid complaint ~ at the same time, you’ll only ever get one of two types of responses on this forum.

Either Knight or Troll

IE: people will either defend ANet by attacking YOUR lack of knowledge or you will get bias support by people that are upset with ANet.

Hardly ever will you get a valid post, that wants to discuss the issue at hand and you have even less of a chance of one of the devs chiming in, with anything more than PRBS.

Quite simply, this topic isn’t going to help with your problem =/

If you want to make an impact, record a video of your problems post it on youtube and/or start a Meme ~ think of “Error 37” via Diablo 3.

Perhaps the negative association will motivate ANet to try harder or test things properly.

Haha, you are 100% right on this.

Thanks for this post

NP ~ people tend ta forget that Forums aren’t the only way (or even the best way) ta get developers attention

@Chris
Don’t worry bout all the “knights” in this thread, while you do have a valid complaint ~ at the same time, you’ll only ever get one of two types of responses on this forum.

Either Knight or Troll

IE: people will either defend ANet by attacking YOUR lack of knowledge or you will get bias support by people that are upset with ANet.

Hardly ever will you get a valid post, that wants to discuss the issue at hand and you have even less of a chance of one of the devs chiming in, with anything more than PRBS.

Quite simply, this topic isn’t going to help with your problem =/

If you want to make an impact, record a video of your problems post it on youtube and/or start a Meme ~ think of “Error 37” via Diablo 3.

Perhaps the negative association will motivate ANet to try harder or test things properly.

Should really have a disclaimer or at least a sticky on the site about how anti-social GW2 is, for being touted as an MMO ~ https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/community/links/Article-A-history-of-MMOs-and-Console-games

@TOPIC
I agree, the costs don’t make sense ~ if anything, this advocates at least having a 2nd option… personally, at this point I wouldn’t mind ANet giving into the “Mount” demands.

Anyone remember back in the day, when people were complaining about ES: Oblivion’s “insta-travel” by clicking on place on your map?

The complaint revolved around “insta-travel” trivializing the world.

Yet here we are with GW2 (virtually a carbon copy of an Elder Scrolls game) that says mounts would make the world feel small, now stop complaining and pay our way point costs!

TL;DR
For being an MMO, GW2 goes out of it’s way to split its players… the waypoints and their costs are a prime example of this mindset.

Funny, I thought people were playing GW2 cause they didn’t want an MMO as a 2nd job

lol, no offense but if ANet can’t solve this problem through their own time/efforts/wit ~ then reporting bots or expecting other people to dedicate their time to “stalking” potential bot isn’t gonna help.

NetherDiver.6079:

MMORPG = Massively Multiplayer Online RPG.

I see that people’s expectations of what an MMO is have changed over the years. But GW2 is still massively multiplayer (say what you will about Dynamic Events being a “single player” affair, you’re still doing them with other people.).

When I talk to my friends of old, and why they use to play MUD’s, Asherons Call and Ultima Online ~ they always talk about the “community” and how back then, those games WERE Facebook. As in, a place for like minded people to gather, socialize and enjoy the craft.

GW2 doesn’t do that, and in my opinion is why WoW is still “king” ~ despite their outdated graphics and kung fu panda hijinks..

If you’ve ever heard someone shout “FOR THE HORDE!” ~ you can see without a shadow of a doubt that the game inspires and promotes a sense of community… for better or worse.

At the end of the day, can you really say that GW2 IS an MMO anymore than League of Legends, Team Fortress 2 or Playing Skyrim while talking to your friends on skype?

@Ausa

Im not sure if they are or if they aren’t. I would like it if I could set a goal and work for it but farming money to buy something then farm more money too finish buying what I wanted is lame.

It doesn’t seem ANet are interested tbh ~

My motivations for change revolved around GW2’s potential to be a great MMO.

But as many people have replied back to my suggestion~ saying that GW2 = “Casual Fun”:: https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/suggestions/Combat-Dynamic-Events-what-s-the-point-if-they-re-easy-mode/page/1 ~ I’d say they’re right.

Currently, GW2 is identical to an Elder Scrolls game… in that it has a beautiful open world, tons of solo play “events” and even some that you may need a Support NPC.

In total, GW2 isn’t an MMO and doesn’t bring anything new to the table, in that the “Public Quests” from Warhammer were more involved and unique than anything I’ve found in GW2.

In fact, you could push the warfront forward to the enemies capitol using the “Public Quests” in WAR ~ this involved teamwork and created a sense of community amongst your server/faction.

Meanwhile, everything in GW2 pushes players away from eachother:: https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/community/links/Article-A-history-of-MMOs-and-Console-games

At the end of the day, I think ANet are happy with GW2 being more in common with a console game, rather than an MMO ~ and there’s nothing wrong with that.

But at the same time, they shouldn’t sell or advertise GW2 as something it’s not (an MMO). This leads people to expect something GW2 cannot offer. Thus why so many people are upset and posting complaints. (beyond the bot problem).

An interesting read… though I think the question should be, not “if” they’ll change the game, but instead… “why” they would change the game.

If their logic is fail, then it wont matter “if” they change the game, due to their motivations being in the wrong direction.

IE: Legendaries are hard to get ~ ANet now have precursors drop from BLC’s.
#Justification would be that because legendaries are NOT stronger than exotics, that putting them in the BLC’s would NOT = buying power.

@Argument that GW2 is “Too balanced”
Something you might enjoy watching:: http://penny-arcade.com/patv/episode/perfect-imbalance

Honestly, I’m not sure why they just don’t move this to General Discussion… seems a lot of people want to like GW2 but can’t figure out why they don’t wanna log in.

IE: Treating GW2 like an MMO instead of a Skyrim w/co-op.

Honestly, it’s because you’re trying to treat GW2 like an MMO ~ which it isn’t.
Full discussion here: https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/community/links/Article-A-history-of-MMOs-and-Console-games

approach GW2 as a standard 60$ Action/Adventure Console game (Skyrim) w/online co-op ~ then you’ll be pretty satisfied with your purchase and how GW2 caters to that mindset.

IE: Get in, play.. get out, walk away and wait for the next batch of DLC (expansion).

GW2 is a good single player experience ~ approach GW2 as a standard 60$ Action/Adventure Console game (Skyrim) w/online co-op ~ then you’ll be pretty satisfied with your purchase and how GW2 caters to that mindset.

IE: Get in, play.. get out, walk away and wait for the next batch of DLC (expansion).

Deimos Tel Arin.7391:

gw2 is meant to be a casual game.

it is meant to be easy.

Hmm, perhaps you’re right ~ I’m beginning to doubt that ANet have any plans ta be more than what they currently “are”.

Shame really, but I’m not in charge…

atropos.3074:

Kalocin.5982:

I think they’re clearly (or else we’d have named mobs and a less realistic world) leaning toward a sandbox game but they wanted to hook in the WoW and traditional mmo players.

I just don’t see much actual sandbox element in this game, with the arguable exception of WvW. Yes, you have the ability to do more stuff per se, but it’s all still very regimented. From overall movement to the DE’s that happen to players having an impact on the world (or not). That’s not a strike against GW2, but just the reality of things.

True sandbox games have a heavy reliance on the community to build game elements themselves, and that generally doesn’t happen in modern titles, because they seem to go to great lengths to insulate the behavior of one player from impacting another, whether that be positive or negative.

Curious what the last “Sandbox” title you played was.

For me, it was Wakfu ~ No quests, no structure, nothing ~ just an open world ta go out and explore.

Granted, it was fun at first… I’ll be honest in saying that some of the design choices they had, made me wonder what they were smoking.

IE: Most their crafting professions were useless, due to mob drop rates (crafts were weaker than drops). And to level them up took an eternity of grinding mats -_-

Sin.8174:

Kalocin.5982:

Sin.8174:

opinion =/= fact?…

No such thing as facts because anything can be disproved, we merely make theories strong enough that we can’t really disagree with them. Remember, the world used to be flat.

Anyways, discussion or progress in anything really, stems from opinions, thoughts and theories. If you don’t want opinions on a forum then you really need to look somewhere else, such as gw2 wiki. However, people like us want to discuss, we want to make issues that we obviously find a problem to just ourselves known so that we can discuss if it isn’t just our issues. Once we find out that it is more than our own issues, we can realize there is a problem, and thus a discussion for how to change said problem is created.

/facepakm

Really? Are you going to try this?..

Right. Let’s see here.

These issues are your personal issues. Point blank. I’m tired of people throwing out how a game should have this, this, this, and most importantly THIS. If not, it’s not a fun game. I mean, really? GW2 is not an MMO?.. Just because it’s not an MMO in a sense of how you see it?

It’s opinion, and not one that is shared by all. For example.. in Alexander’s post when he goes on about ’If you approach…" is 100% crap.

That’s opinionated conjecture. There are many people IN GAME that do not feel this way. I play the game as an MMO, a different style of MMO, and am still having a blast. It’s simply opinion and what you think may be wrong with the game, others feel is just fine.

It’s never going to be a simple discussion. it’s going to be an argument. A heated debate, which, I’m sure will devolve into throwing out things like ‘fanboy’, ‘white knight’, ‘elitist’, or anything else that’s so overused and tiresome that the thread pretty much becomes null. Circular discussion ftw.!

Oh wait. szar already beat me to it.

Not sure why you get so offended by me calling GW2 a console game.

I never said or implied that made GW2 a BAD GAME ~ just that it doesn’t make sense to defend or claim that it’s a “different” MMO.

It’s just Skyrim with Co-op.

If you like that, AWESOME! ~ if not, then odds are it’s because you want a community driven and built MMO. IE: Something GW2 isn’t.

Zwets.3785:

Wow, a very well thought out and worded post.
I like your suggestion 2 a lot, creating 2 events that compete for ‘the zerg’s attention, by both being equally important would add lots of interesting gameplay.
I also like suggestion 3, though, just adding ‘fake’ players to increase the enemy’s health or number of adds that spawn seems a little flat.
To take up the example of centaurs, instead of simply spawning more of them, replace a few of the regular ones with ‘Veteran Desperate Centaur Shaman’ that have special skills to make the event harder, like a buff that causes other centaurs to grow larger, so their trample skill charges a greater distance and has a wider AoE so it knocks down more people. Maybe they have another skill that grants quickness to their allies.
Basically take the hardest thing about that particular event and make it harder.

Suggestion 1 seems more like separate things to be the objective of new dynamic events to be created, than things to just be tacked onto existing dynamic events.

Thanks Zwets ~

Though I expand on a few of those concepts through the 2 pages of this post.. I’ll try ta clean up this suggestion and put it all together at a later date, depending on future critiques from players.

Kalocin.5982:

@AlexanderFaust.4518

That was actually a really true statement, especially with the For the Horde! comment….Ultima Online was awesome because you could create an identity and in a sense, live in the world with this identity. In GW2 the identity is created for you, and you play that identity in a world meant for everything else but you the player. In short: It’s like watching a tv show or movie unlike a book where you use your own imagination. Just my two copper anyways.

Thanks, I had originally wrote that as a reply to an article posted on mmorpg.com ~
The author wrote that WoW was the cause of people not liking GW2 ~ which simply isn’t true.

If you would like ta see his follow up reply as well as mine, check check it out here:: https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/community/links/Article-A-history-of-MMOs-and-Console-games

Try this on for size::

If you approach GW2 as a standard 60$ Action/Adventure Console game (Skyrim) w/online co-op ~ then you’ll be pretty satisfied with your purchase and how GW2 caters to that mindset.

IE: Get in, play.. get out, walk away and wait for the next batch of DLC (expansion).

However, if you approach GW2 as an MMO ~ odds are, you’ll be disappointed for several reasons.

Standardized Loot / Character Progression / Combat::
1. Everything is set up so, no one really ever feels powerful.
2. Lack of trinity means, you don’t need anyone and are not needed by anyone.

The staples of an MMO are designed around creating a community from the players and promoting them to work together. ~ in this aspect, GW2 fails as an MMO.

Granted people can argue, saying that GW2 is amazing and is better off without the Trinity and having to rely on other players.

They then point to Dynamic events and how you “need” other people to kill mobs like Balthazar, Dragons, ect…

But do you really? are the faceless masses anymore “personal” than having a bunch of henchmen NPC to help you finish the event?

Think about it ~ we don’t know the names of other people at those events, because we’re not there for them ~ we don’t need to talk, we don’t need to socialize or even organize ~ we only care about the “chance” at uber loot (perhaps the precursor?) and to farm Karma/Gold.

Since those bosses are nothing more than HP sponges that hit like trucks (no tactics) ~ people just sit back and spam, leaving the few people that agro the mob to be chased by him, while they take pot shots at it and if someone gets low on HP they throw down their AOE heals.

Basically, GW2 tries to mimic the Trinity without creating a “need” for people to do anything more than zerg the content.

This trivializes going back to old content while being “leveled down” in that you see no point as you could “experience” the same content at your own level and at least get appropriate gear/loot.

Even the dungeons are designed this way with their “Corpse run, waypoints”.

In all senses of the word “community” ~ it seems that GW2 fails.

This includes the free 24 hour server transfers that shred any hopes of a well built community as well at the ability to join multiple guilds, and yet refuse to put in a multi-chat for each of them, requiring you to “represent” one guild at a time, in order to talk to other members of that guild.

The same goes for World Vs World ~ you cannot see enemy players names.. and there are no scoreboards dedicated to the very skilled or elite of the “leaders” ~ in fact, if you wish to be a “leader” you need only spend 100 gold on a tome to become a commander, there are no other prerequisites or skill based requirements.

IE: No one knows who you are or why you’re deserving to be a “leader” ~ they only see an impersonal title.

When I talk to my friends of old, and why they use to play MUD’s, Asherons Call and Ultima Online ~ they always talk about the “community” and how back then, those games WERE Facebook. As in, a place for like minded people to gather, socialize and enjoy the craft.

GW2 doesn’t do that, and in my opinion is why WoW is still “king” ~ despite their outdated graphics and kung fu panda hijinks..

If you’ve ever heard someone shout “FOR THE HORDE!” ~ you can see without a shadow of a doubt that the game inspires and promotes a sense of community… for better or worse.

At the end of the day, can you really say that GW2 IS an MMO anymore than League of Legends, Team Fortress 2 or Playing Skyrim while talking to your friends on skype?

@Zelot
More and more I’m seeing GW2 fade for the worst.. but for now, I’ll remain optimistic about it’s future and ignore some of their more recent “problems” / bad design choices.

@Dice
As someone that’s played League since beta, GW2 and DotA(2)
I can say that Casual = Good for eSports scene, due to player base and learning curve.

1. Elo is up for debate.. but the Profile “level up” is for balancing “who vs. who” (in terms of how many matches you’ve played) ~ in that by the time you’re lv30, you’ll have fought nubs all the way to “try hards” in an acceptable order and be ready for most things that come your way ~ whether that’s RANKED or not.

IE: it’s a safeguard to make sure you’re more likely to face people of your own skill level.
#it also makes you feel like you have an investment in your account via time spent to level up.

2. IP/Runes mean that you have to learn to play the game at a disadvantage and improve through trial and error ~ this is further supporting the motivation to keep playing so the game gets easier (saving up to buy proper rune pages) it also makes you feel like you have an investment in your account (more likely you’ll stay).

3. True ~ you don’t know if you’re gonna have an easy match or a hard match.. you may even think that every game offers this ~ fact is, if the rest of the game doesn’t work well, and you’re pub stomping 99% of the people you face or are getting your own face melted 99% of the time, then you’ll lose interest. (this is facilitated by your game working ).

4. League has over 100 champions that can each be built as a tank, healer, dps.. they also have innate abilities to carry games based on building your team around one champ or going as a “comp” via poke, initiate or turtle.

Meanwhile, Guild Wars 2 is limited to maybe 2-3 viable builds per class.

I don’t have a solution to this and is why this topic was created ~ to point to League and reference mechanics that could help GW2 improve it’s eSports scene.

This could be as simple as making a MOBA mode, or a Hunger Royal match type or any other number of things.. but at the end of the day, if we don’t at least offer our 2 cents, then we’ll end up with more stale gameplay mechs than we already have.

Dice Dragon.4326:

League is actually really unbalanced, its Tourney scene is basicly "play whats most op currently, and win" not all the champs are created equal.

As an Avid league player, I can tell you, from a pvp perspective, GW1 was much more balanced, League is a DotA style game, and sadly isnt learning much from it. DotA is still be updated and is much more balanced.

Ask near any DotA(2) fan and they will tell you that DotA(2) takes more "skill" or is more "pro" than League of Legends.. but so what?

We’re talking about a game that’s casual friendly, is easy to learn and hard to master.

DotA(2) is hard to learn and annoying to master ~ IE: not causal friendly.
Just like HoN ~ and we all know how that worked out.

As the Documentary shows, you need a huge core player base to be successful ~ DotA(2) doesn’t have that yet due to still being in beta, so for now.. it’s apples to oranges.

This topic points to what League has that GW2 could either copy 100% or at least take into consideration when evolving the game for it’s own eSport scene.

What does League offer? ::
1. PvP balance via Profile levels and Elo.
2. Player Progression utilizing the IP/Runes.
3. Potential “challenge” of pwning teh nubs!.. or getting your own face melted.
4. Options in available champion pool, summoner spells and character builds.

Please stay on topic ~ thx

Added new video documentary of League’s raise to fame and season 2 championships ~ http://www.gametrailers.com/full-episodes/deply5/shift-the-league-of-legends-phenomenon

ah, np

You are right "building a community, takes time" ~ though.. I compared GW2 to console games for a reason. In that they go outta their way to trivalize everything that helps build said community.

Free 24 hour server transers, no names or ranks in WvW, no trinity or challenge in combat, corpse run waypoints in dungeons and standardize loot...

Do you know why people like League of Legends? why it’s considered the most popular online game? http://na.leagueoflegends.com/news/league-legends-community-infographic

It’s because people feel attached to their accounts.. that they build over time and that despite having only 1 tournament style map, 4 abilities and 2 spells ~ people feel like THEY matter, like without them, their team would fail and they too rely on others.

This is something a traditional MMO creates by utilizing the holy trinity ~ but GW2 threw that out the window in favor of "spam combat" where you knee-jerk your dps, dodge and heals to mobs that just soak up dmg and can one shot you.

The whole game is like that..

And with the only motivation being "playing dress up" via cosmetic (endgame) rewards.. people just don’t care to stay for very long.

basically, World of Warcraft is NOT to blame.. because really, us players do the same thing in every game we play.. including consoles, where most of us come from.

Ever heard of speed runs?.. yep, I can beat Legend of Zelda OoT in under 6 hours! ~ or how bout survival mode? where you face endless hordes of mobs.. for no other reason than to have a higher score than your friends and climb a leaderboard.

At the end of the day.. People like challenging content and will always try to rip through a game.. just to say they can ~ it’s up to the designers and game developers to curb that with in game mechanics that prevent or challenge players.. maybe even distract them temporarly.

But agian.. this is something GW2 has no interest in.

No matter how I look at it.. GW2 seems to be designed around the concept that it’s a standard $60 console game, where you dive in.. beat it, move on and wait for more DLC (expansions).

Which to me, is a step back from what an MMO is and represents ~ a Community.

While your article is nice in theory... I feel you missed the real reason why people are confused about GW2 and why they just don’t care about their characters, story or the game world.

Personally, tho it seems that you’re talking about adjusting your point of view to see the game in a better light.

IE: To make GW2 seem more appealing.

On that note however, I would say that if you INSTEAD.. approach GW2 as a standard 60$ Action/Adventure Console game (Skyrim) w/online co-op ~ then you’ll be pretty satisfied with your purchase and how GW2 caters to that mindset.

IE: Get in, play.. get out, walk away and wait for the next batch of DLC (expansion).

However, if you approach GW2 as an MMO ~ odds are, you’ll be disappointed for several reasons.

Standardized Loot / Character Progression / Combat::
1. Everything is set up so, no one really ever feels powerful.
2. Lack of trinity means, you don’t need anyone and are not needed by anyone.

The staples of an MMO are designed around creating a community from the players and promoting them to work together. ~ in this aspect, GW2 fails as an MMO.

Granted people can argue, saying that GW2 is amazing and is better off without the Trinity and having to rely on other players.

They then point to Dynamic events and how you “need” other people to kill mobs like Balthazar, Dragons, ect…

But do you really? are the faceless masses anymore “personal” than having a bunch of henchmen NPC to help you finish the event?

Think about it ~ we don’t know the names of other people at those events, because we’re not there for them ~ we don’t need to talk, we don’t need to socialize or even organize ~ we only care about the “chance” at uber loot (perhaps the precursor?) and to farm Karma/Gold.

Since those bosses are nothing more than HP sponges that hit like trucks (no tactics) ~ people just sit back and spam, leaving the few people that agro the mob to be chased by him, while they take pot shots at it and if someone gets low on HP they throw down their AOE heals.

Basically, GW2 tries to mimic the Trinity without creating a “need” for people to do anything more than zerg the content.

This trivializes going back to old content while being "leveled down" in that you see no point as you could "experience" the same content at your own level and at least get appropriate gear/loot.

Even the dungeons are designed this way with their “Corpse run, waypoints”.

In all senses of the word “community” ~ it seems that GW2 fails.

This includes the free 24 hour server transfers that shred any hopes of a well built community as well at the ability to join multiple guilds, and yet refuse to put in a multi-chat for each of them, requiring you to “represent” one guild at a time, in order to talk to other members of that guild.

The same goes for World Vs World ~ you cannot see enemy players names.. and there are no scoreboards dedicated to the very skilled or elite of the "leaders" ~ in fact, if you wish to be a "leader" you need only spend 100 gold on a tome to become a commander, there are no other prerequisites or skill based requirements.

IE: No one knows who you are or why you’re deserving to be a "leader" ~ they only see an impersonal title.

When I talk to my friends of old, and why they use to play MUD’s, Asherons Call and Ultima Online ~ they always talk about the "community" and how back then, those games WERE Facebook. As in, a place for like minded people to gather, socialize and enjoy the craft.

GW2 doesn’t do that, and in my opinion is why WoW is still "king" ~ despite their outdated graphics and kung fu panda hijinks..

If you’ve ever heard someone shout "FOR THE HORDE!" ~ you can see without a shadow of a doubt that the game inspires and promotes a sense of community... for better or worse.

At the end of the day, can you really say that GW2 IS an MMO anymore than League of Legends, Team Fortress 2 or Playing Skyrim while talking to your friends on skype?

Here ya go!… totally NOT a video for wildstar housing

Wait… cheasts of the black king? o.O

lol, seems like I’m missing something.
only played long enough to get the 6 pages and turn’em in before logging out and waiting till the 26th

Yenkin.5410:

I would not argue that fact AlexanderFaust, I have played MMO’s since the Original release of EQ. While we change settings the games are all the same, the Narrative (Story) and the Settings (World) is what sets these games aparts. But in Reality all games draw from the same theories on how to draw players in and keep them interested in playing.

Please note my study is on what is termed Gamification which is how do we apply games to every day tasks in the workplace. Can work be more fun like if we add elements of game play to daily tasks. Much of the same elements that go into Game Design of games such as GW2 can be applied to many elements of the work place as well as Consumer marketing.

Ah, my apologies ~ lol my last post was actually aimed at the OP.
#I had not read your previous post before replying to the topic.

Personally, tho it seems that the OP is talking about adjusting your point of view to see the game in a better light.

IE: To make it seem more appealing.

On that note however, I would say that if you approach GW2 as a standard 60$ Action/Adventure Console game (Skyrim) w/online co-op ~ then you’ll be pretty satisfied with your purchase and how GW2 caters to that mindset.

However, if you approach GW2 as an MMO ~ odds are, you’ll be disappointed for several reasons.

Standardized Loot / Character Progression / Combat::
1. Everything is set up so, no one really ever feels powerful.
2. Lack of trinity means, you don’t need anyone and are not needed by anyone.

The staples of an MMO are designed around creating a community from the players and promoting them to work together. ~ in this aspect, GW2 fails as an MMO.

Granted people can argue, saying that GW2 is amazing and is better off without the Trinity and having to rely on other players.

They then point to Dynamic events and how you “need” other people to kill mobs like Balthazar, Dragons, ect…

But do you really? are the faceless masses anymore “personal” than having a bunch of henchmen NPC to help you finish the event?

Think about it ~ we don’t know the names of other people at those events, because we’re not there for them ~ we don’t need to talk, we don’t need to socialize or even organize ~ we only care about the “chance” at uber loot (perhaps the precurser?) and to farm Karma/Gold.

Since those bosses are nothing more than HP sponges that hit like trucks (no tactics) ~ people just sit back and spam, leaving the few people that agro the mob to be chased by him, while they take pot shots at it and if someone gets low on HP they throw down their AOE heals.

Basically, GW2 tries to mimic the Trinity without creating a “need” for people to do anything more than zerg the content.

Even the dungeons are designed this way with their “Corpse run, waypoints”.

In all senses of the word “community” ~ it seems that GW2 fails.

This includes the free 24 hour server transfers that shred any hopes of a well built community as well at the ability to join multiple guilds, and yet refuse to put in a multi-chat for each of them, requiring you to “represent” in order to talk to other members.

At the end of the day, can you really say that GW2 IS an MMO anymore than League of Legends or Team Fortress 2?

Isn’t that the definition of a typical “Theme park” MMO? o.O

They don’t exist because you can transfer to any server you want for free every 24 hours.

Well, thanks for the support guys ~

Sadly.. the topic was moved to “Linksville” so I doubt it’ll be of any help to people in general discussion or when players are submitting a risk/reward suggestion.

@Rovan Leafsong
Thank you for the well thought out and detailed response.

To follow up, I think a part of that “lack of immersion” many people (including yourself) are feeling is, in part due to the removal of the Holy Trinity.

lol, I know that sentence alone will tick a LOT of people off (IE: duh, ANet and GW2 are better off without the trinity) ~ but when you think about “Tank / Healer / DPS” you have a system the requires people to “need” and be “needed by” others.

Sounds horrible in theory right?

However, this pushes people into learning their class and actively trying to get better as to not disappoint other people, that depend on them.

In something as simple as a PvE group.. to something as complex as a 50 man raid.

It all comes down to needing others and more importantly.. to be NEEDED BY OTHERS.

Personally, I’m not a fan of the trinity ~ but after playing GW2, I can see that without it, you still need systems in place to cater to that mindset. (being needed)

Otherwise you end up with the current type of Dynamic Events that are almost identical to raids and yet still try to mimic the trinity ~ with none of the immersion or challenge.

IE: Have you fought Balthazar? ~ he chases one target at a time (Tank/Kite) ~ while everyone else throws out pot shots (DSP) ~ occasionally, someone gets low and throws down their AOE Regen (Healer).

Sounds like the Trinity! ~ but no one is actively trying to fulfill any role, instead they’re just “knee-jerk” spamming either DPS, Dodge or Heal.

Which is one of the reasons I created this suggestion: https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/suggestions/Combat-Dynamic-Events-what-s-the-point-if-they-re-easy-mode/page/1

Though it doesn’t solve all of the problems, it does allow ANet to keep the current combat system and design “challenging” content and mob balance around it.

Something where everyone must pay attention to what’s actually going on in the battle and has a “job” to do, yet still doesn’t need the holy trinity.

In closing, I think that Guild Wars 2 has great potential ~ but it seems they’re either holding themselves back due to “fear” of becoming a traditional MMO or because they really don’t want anything to do with MMO’s and like having more in common with a 60$ Action/Adventure Console game.

In which case, I would wonder why they would even bother to label it an MMO at all.

Also, a video you may find contextually interesting:: http://youtu.be/Aip2aIt0ROM
Design Choices:: Challenge Vs. Cheap Last-ability?

There’s been a pretty big discussion on this topic..
~ My own take on it:: https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/community/links/Rewarding-Gear-Treadmill

Raf.1078:

No….I didn’t learn anything about myself. Never expected to. Its only a game. Another time sink for anyone with a bit free time. Not unlike, though vastly superior, IMO to television.

I’ll leave philosophical revelations to RL…where they belong.

With a response like that, I don’t think you actually watched the video or understand the topic tbh =/

Auesis.7301:

It’s like the concept of “fun” went out the window years ago, and instead players feel forced to follow a metaphorical carrot for the rest of their days.

Pretty much, just looking at the replies here. People seem to think that because GW2 doesn’t have “Grind/Raid = End game” ~ that instead, it has “Fun”.

Almost like those two can’t exist in the same universe/game.

Sure, you can say “You don’t enjoy grinding” ~ but some people do, hell.. just look at all those people grinding for GW2 legendaries and saying “it’s fun”.

At the end of the day, fun is not only subjective.. but also falls victim to the masses ~ in that an MMO requires a community to think it’s “fun” in order to be successful.

Brainwashed or not.. WoW is touted to be “fun” as an MMO.

Personally, GW2 is also “fun” in it’s own right.. but only because you can approach it as a console action/adventure game w/online co-op, instead of an MMO.

@Miracle
To clarify:: Gated content = Artifacts of “Uber” via Dungeons in Legend of Zelda

1. where you need a key to enter the dungeon.

2. You need to solve puzzles to progress and unlock more doors.

3. You have to beat the “sub-boss” to get the special item/weapon/armor that allows you to delve deeper into the dungeon.

4. You use the “special item” to solve new puzzles and eventually beat the Dungeon Boss and acquire his “legendary item” to progress further in the story, unlocking the next dungeon for conquest.

5. Upon collecting (4) Artifacts of “Uber” ~ a new continent opens up, with a whole new set of stories, dungeons, challenges and of course.. now you need to collect (9) “Pieces of Eight” to progress to new continent and unlock more of the story/dungeons/ect…

In other words, gated = Requirement before access.
In Typical MMOs this would be a “Gear score” or level restriction.

Guild Wars 2 could also have gated content, but like I said above… they’re afraid of anything that a typical MMO has.

My suggestion to this type of “gated content” for GW2:: https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/suggestions/GW2-Challenge-Mode-Edition
.

Pilusilm.5682:

AlexanderFaust.4518:

Echo.7634:

AlexanderFaust.4518:

Pilusilm.5682:

Echo.7634:

And sorry. But ALL of the US servers are either HIGH or FULL during prime time.

For now.

Funny, I thought those numbers only stay like that due to how server transfers work and that the “status” is only a placeholder for how many accounts reside there.

IE: Status means next to nothing.

IF it were only a placeholder for the number of accounts residing there then the status would never change. The full servers would always remain full and that is simply not the case.

Why wouldn’t they change?.. people can shift from one server to another, every 24 hours.. spaces open up all the time, thus servers will always flux from “high to full”.

IE: The status wont go below a certain threshold (high) due to many reasons, one of which.. being that people that’ve quit are still on those servers and being accounted for.

So explain to me how the “status” actually matters

but but but ;_;
Or should I say “bot bot bot” ?

haha.. +1 for the lol

Echo.7634:

AlexanderFaust.4518:

Pilusilm.5682:

Echo.7634:

And sorry. But ALL of the US servers are either HIGH or FULL during prime time.

For now.

Funny, I thought those numbers only stay like that due to how server transfers work and that the “status” is only a placeholder for how many accounts reside there.

IE: Status means next to nothing.

IF it were only a placeholder for the number of accounts residing there then the status would never change. The full servers would always remain full and that is simply not the case.

Why wouldn’t they change?.. people can shift from one server to another, every 24 hours.. spaces open up all the time, thus servers will always flux from “high to full”.

IE: The status wont go below a certain threshold (high) due to many reasons, one of which.. being that people that’ve quit are still on those servers and being accounted for.

So explain to me how the “status” actually matters

Rather than bog you down with a wall of txt that no one wants to read, I present you with a question asked of and answered by Woodenpotato.

http://youtu.be/Z4_09iJM1Xs?t=1m25s

~ After all the “fuss” about GW2.. have you learned anything about yourself as a player and what you want from an MMO?

MY OWN ANSWER TO HIS QUESTION::

Personally, I find that GW2 was a great concept, but they failed to do anything with it due to their “fear” of being like any other MMO.

IE: ANet are afriad of grinding / raids / power creep ~ thus GW2 content became trivial and nothing more than Skyrim w/Online Co-op.

“I learned that I want my gated content, because playing GW2 doesn’t even feel like an MMO in that there’s no sense of challenge or community.. we’re all just a faceless zerg vying for standardized loot.”

What could ANet have done differently? ~ this:: https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/suggestions/Combat-Dynamic-Events-what-s-the-point-if-they-re-easy-mode/page/1
___________

EDIT::
While it’s great to see other peoples take on this topic ~ please refrain from talking badly or taking cheap shots at certain player groups or mentalities.

IE: Hype goes both ways, in that you can build up something so much you either come crashing back down to reality or get stuck in a delusional state, thinking everything is flawless and beautiful.

Topic = Your opinion on YOURSELF and GW2

Pilusilm.5682:

Echo.7634:

And sorry. But ALL of the US servers are either HIGH or FULL during prime time.

For now.

Funny, I thought those numbers only stay like that due to how server transfers work and that the “status” is only a placeholder for how many accounts reside there.

IE: Status means next to nothing.

I’m 28 ~ and I don’t play, not because the game is bad.. but because I could never find anyone to do anything with. (despite server hoping, guild prostituting, ect).

I personally blame the game mechanics in that they promote people to not seek out content.

IE: Thus trivializing content, because you don’t feel like it’s a challenge or rewarding.

Honestly, I’ve written many suggestions to help fix this and I try to get people to do the same, rather than troll the forums or hate on anyone with an opinion (Knights/trolls).

Sadly though, one of the reasons I didn’t have many people to play with.. is because the guild I came into GW2 with ~ IE: through our art community ~ they all quit 3 weeks after launch.

And even when they were actually playing, they never really bothered with the dungeons past a few excursions. ~ Saying that the content was boring.

How many were in that guild? no idea of the hard numbers due to some of them buying more than one copy of the game and running multiple accounts ~ but our numbers fluxed between 70 and 125 members.

However, you were hard pressed to find more than 15-20 online at any one point in time.

This lead me to watch some streamers via Towelliee and Kungen ~ which was interesting to see their take on GW2.

They of course left for MOP ~ and took all their viewers/guild members/followers with them.

Right now, they’re still playing MOP and when asked on their stream “why they left GW2” they merely say that, it’s a lot like a console game ~ Good in theory, but not sure why it’s classified as an MMO since people/fans/devs expect you to play GW2 like a 60$ adventure game.

IE: Nothing to work towards and no reason to stick around.

It’s kinda sad ~ though this topic was created out of the idea to “encourage” the devs ta “keep on truck’n”.

Which I support!

At the same time, all you’re really doing is providing fodder for the trolls and telling anyone with an opinion on “fixing” the game, that they have no place to speak and should be ignored.

Basically, you’re hurting the community and building walls of bias. (though unintentionally)

Threads like this, should be closed and deleted IMO ~ due to the above mentioned reasons alone.

IE: If you want to encourage ANet, goto the suggestions area and write up what could help the game improve and what “content/mechanics” you REALLY would like to stay the same.

This gives a much better rep than posting this here in GD in the hopes to “drive off the blasphemers”.

Again, not saying that to belittle you ~ just that threads like this simple don’t help as much as you’d think they would.

Wargrimm.5973:

When you hit lvl 80 and see how things are going on, the game feels more like a single player game, where you go from 1-80 and there is nothing that requires a need for group nor guild, I know the game is still young and needs time to develop but at the moment I think the philosophy of ArenaNet is not so good especially regarding to PvE….

+1 Agree!

Here’s to hopeing that people go into the suggestion area and help ANet come up with some ways ta improve the game

As is, you can get the same experience from GW2 just by playing Oblivion/Skyrim while talking to people on skype.

Just keep in mind that, even if ANet never address this “issue” ~ that doesn’t mean GW2 will “die”.

GW1 survived for along time just by using “expansion cash flow” ~ eventually opening up the cash shop.

So if this is intended and they aren’t interested in evolving GW2 into something “more” ~ then the game will still stay afloat w/o issue.

Yep.

But what I dislike more is hearing things like “DEs are just zergs” from people who have no clue about DEs.
Because if they did they would know the huge depth DEs have, the dozen of different possibilites and the hundreds of consequences they cause.

This is why I say misunderstood.
People don’t go deep into things and then gets the game wrong.
It’s like looking at the surface of sea and say that submarine environment sucks.

I would be really mad if I was a dev and make a DE chain with 300 consequences, and then hear someone say DEs suck and are just zergs.

Guess ANet should’ve designed them better then?

IE: With our “zerg” we’ll never lose ~ save for the pheonix/balthazar.
and even then, the events aren’t complex as the pheonix also relies on his zerg to combat yours and balthazar is nothing but a HP/DMG bruiser.

So ya..

If GW2’s Dynamic Events weren’t so shotty, perhaps people would care?

As is, they rely on a broken combat system that doesn’t support tactics or thought out mechanics ~ thus come off as boring zerg fests.

~ Just my 2 cents ~

My own fix::
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/suggestions/Combat-Dynamic-Events-what-s-the-point-if-they-re-easy-mode/page/1

flyinpoons.6481:

What this game really is, whether the defenders of GW2 want to admit it or not, is a home for those that dislike other MMO’s because they frankly were bad at them, and never got to see the endgame because of it.

If anyone remembers the Rudolph the red nose reindeer Christmas special, this is the Island of misfit toys. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SH1j1luFOw

There is no real endgame because it would fracture their tiny ego’s knowing that once again nobody wants to play with them because they are sub par.

You can thank the “trophies for everyone” “no keeping scores” mentality that starts in school these days for the new breed of gamers who hate to see someone get shinies they cannot get because they are bad, and would actually have to work to get better.

So let them feel superior by “saying you don’t get it” and move on, misfit toys need homes too.

While I don’t agree with the tone of your post ~ I can’t argue with some of your points. ~ People that like GW2 seem to have forgotten what “fun” is really about (IE: Challenge) ~ not having everything handed to you.

I ran into the same problem with TSW ~ in that, if you ever tried to critique the game or offer a suggestion, the community there would thrash about and tell you that TSW is the smart mans MMO.

IE: “If you don’t like TSW, it’s not the games fault ~ it’s because you’re not smart enough to appreciate it’s complexities”

I see the same thing popping up here for GW2 ~ where people are under the delusion that as long as they enjoy the game, than there’s nothing wrong with it ~ so you should bugger off back to the land of pandas.

It’s quite insulting tbh ~ especially considering I’ve never played WoW

Anywho a video you might enjoy ~
http://youtu.be/_lfxYhtf8o4

Caramel Ham.4891:

For me, the bottom line is this:

If you were NOT expecting anything from GW2, like, never heard about GW2 before you bought it, then its a solid game.

If you were following GW2 since the beginning….then its a MASSIVE disappointment. Not because its complete garbage, but because the underlying game is THERE, Anet just needs to refine it, change what doesnt work, and add stuff. Their after launch support has also been completely dismal. Sometimes i question whether that same team that was responsible for making the game are in charge of fixing, adding content, changing content, etc.

Or it could be as simple as….we put too much faith and expectations on Anet. Maybe this is the best they can do.

+1

That’s actually a good way to summarize it.
Kudos ~

Archer.6485:

I read pretty much all the interviews, diaries and marketing on the game I could find for four years. The game is pretty much what I expected it to be and I wouldn’t trade it for any other mmo currently out there. Not even close.

Maybe I’m the one who understood the interviews wrong? But then what are the odds that it turned out into exactly what my vision of it was?

That’s fine, but the topic talks about “misunderstanding” ~ and honestly, I would have to agree with it.

People aren’t aware of what GW2 “is” based off just casually looking at it or the interviews/blogs/ect.

IE: It’s a console game, sudo-mmo style.

It plays like one and if you expect to come into GW2 for the long haul, you’ll be disappointed.

Most people like gated content and progression.. not always in terms of gear/loot/ect ~ but as content that you actually have to “think” is overall kinda challenging.

IE: Puzzles and Dungeons with multiple run-throughs, WERE quite popular.
But the events and world in general aren’t.

While you could say “if you don’t like GW2, then go back to your game of choice” ~

Honestly, based of the numerous topics like this one, trying to understand “why” people are leaving, I would agree and say most the people I know, already have .

Should ANet be worried? ~ Nope!

GW1 did fine, living off expansion cash flow ~ w/o the need of a cash shop for a long time. So there’s nothing to say they weren’t planning ta do the same with GW2.

Anywho, as the topic stated ~ people are moving on, not because the game is bad ~ but because it can’t give people a “new place ta call home”.

IE: There’s nothing to WORK towards in GW2 and is designed to be played for few hundred hours, then you drop it till the next expansion ~ IE: The Elder Scrolls. (Console game).

@TOPIC
Honestly, I don’t wanna bash ANet or discourage them.

So instead, lets look at your argument of::
Anyone that doesn’t like GW2 is because they “misunderstood” what it is.

Basically, the more I see people defend the “features” of GW2.. the more I question why it’s an MMO.

Think about it.

They say:
Explore the world.
Do dungeons
Create another alt and complete multiple “story lines”.

but why should I have to do things I don’t want? why can’t I just keep taking on new challenges with my lv80? isn’t there more things ta do in the world?

Because ANet are so afraid of the trinity.. the combat suffers (zerg w/spamfest). This trivializes content ~ The same can be said about loot and how you’re leveled down into that same content.

Truth be told, GW2 plays A LOT like Oblivion and Skyrim.

Sure it also has grind mechanics suited for an MMO (Legendary weapon anyone?) ~ but beyond that, can you really say GW2 is an MMO instead of a single player game with co-op?

If yes, then I would fault ANet for nothing more than how misleading their Manifesto was ~

Point of fact, I honestly thought the events would be more thought out. Where, just like in Warhammer’s Public Quests, you could push the “warfront” utilizing these dynamic event chains into an epic dragon fight of the ages!

but no, it was nothing like that.
can’t even count how many dragons I’ve killed, just by showing up and sitting in the corner spamming till victory

Do an event once and you get the gist of it and odds are, you’ll get to do it 7-8 more times before you leave that zone ~ most of the time, you wont though. as you’ll just be bored of it and move on after the 3rd or 4th time.

TL;DR
GW2 is pitched as an MMO ~ but Fans/ANet demand you play it like a console game.

Perhaps people are misunderstanding… but can you really blame them, when the marketing/interviews/dev diaries and blogs, paint a different picture than what the game really is?

MrThebigcheese.2014:

pandemos.3497:

AlexanderFaust.4518:

… why should people “create an alt and explore the rest of the content” or even bother getting 100% on their main, IF they don’t enjoy what they’ve already experienced in GW2?

The main reason I quit was due to an inability to find anyone ta do anything with.. and I’ve got 2 lv80’s ~ a Necro and Elementalist ~ 6 crafting professions at lv400.. and yet like the screenshot I’ve attached to this, you can see that I’ve not gotten past lv26 on my personal stories nor any more than 44% on world completion.

I’ve been to Orr, I’ve fought dragons and I’ve died in dungeon..

Long story short, not even server hoping or guild prostituting helped me find anyone that wanted to actually “experience” the game.. despite server hoping to more “populated” servers for a few weeks.

So why do people troll the forums when they’re already moved on from the game? Go play Dark Souls… or xcom, TL2, BL2 or any of the other awesome games that are out now.

Why do you tell people to not give criticism? Just pointing out the circular nature of that argument.

On a side note, Xcom is excellent and I am going to go play it right now so maybe you’re right lol.

@MrThebigcheese
Ya, I’ll try Xcom in a bit.. still playing Torchlight 2.

As for Pandemos ~ I’m not sure why people like him goto other topics, to grab “pieces” of my posts only to misquote me or my intentions.

Basically, I stated that I’m here ta help ANet evolve GW2, because I feel it has potential.

In reality, I’ve seen countless threads in the suggestions area.. many of which are very well thought out and would improve GW2 greatly! ~

However, like many of the nay-Sayers here.. no one seems to care =/

They’re far more interested in telling other people they they’re playing GW2 “wrong” and/or expecting too much from it.

lol, imagine IF the Knights put half as much effort into making legit suggestions to improving GW2 as they do trolling the forums…

But then again, IF they did that.. they would just be trolled by other “fans/knights” or be completely ignored anyways..

#the vicious cycle ~