Guild Wars 2

Eagelseye.6312:

Evan Lesh.3295:

Getting ‘stuck’ in ruby is a very important topic regarding how best league should operate. We changed matchmaking to make the ladder more prestigious and so far it has done that. Divisions are aligning with skill level much better than season 1. The product of this change is that the bulk of players who hover around the middle of the mmr curve should stay in sapphire and ruby. Win rate will level out at 50% because there are plentiful players of similar mmr in the same division.

Should average players be able to climb out of the middle divisions by grinding? This removes prestige and can make matchmaking worse within a division, but always allows a sense of progression.

Should average players stay in the middle divisions because that’s where they belong at their skill level? This retains prestige and only improving skill will allow climbing, but rewards and progression stop at some point through the season.

Is there an incentive that could be added to league games for players who have reached their appropriate division and can no longer climb?

Sir, the PvP system needs to be changed. The concept of soloQ has to be eliminated and Q can only be done in a premade set of 5 or at least 3 players. This will eliminate players getting paired with randoms where none have a clue of what the other wants and would to a good extent save good players from have consecutive win and loss cycles.

PvP is a team game and should be like that only. SoloQ and lucky win streaks makes no sense, takes the fun out of the game and makes the concept of team play redundant.

Oh lawd, I hope this is a satire post, but considering the forum, I doubt it, so I’ll respond in kind.
Answer 1, if serious post:

“You can E-Spurts, or you can geeeeeeeet oooouuuut!”

For real though, no thanks. Take your elitism elsewhere. Some people don’t want to HAVE to get a team, voice, and premade just to play ranked and have fun/get rewards. That’s not an answer to the issues we’re currently facing.

Answer 2, if satire post:
PvP is only about being competitive, I agree. That’s why we need to do away with hotjoin and unranked, because why have those? I mean, PvP is only about being as competitive as possible. Take out reward tracks, we don’t need those for competitive PvP. Also, take out the bank and TP as those aren’t necessary.

Serious answer though, some cool features to help find teams for ranked PvP, if that’s the true direction the devs are wanting to take, is to add in game voice chat as well as a team finder in game so you can find teams that need you to finish their specific comp they’re going for. Granted, I think that’d just be exacerbating the “E-Spurts or gerrrt errrt!” mentality that PvP has garnered.

Vayne.8563:

Leo G.4501:

Vayne.8563:

So what do you say to people who want viper trinkets to finish their build? Do they also have an agenda?

Not to sound dismissive, I’d tell them to stop feeling so entitled. It’s just a stat distribution, not gear. If you can’t use Viper’s, use something else to complete your build. If you’re OCD and you just have to have everything the same nomenclature, it’s called a disorder for a reason…

The game shouldn’t just hand you everything you want your way all the time. And I’m not saying people who complain want everything handed to them but as a gamer, games should challenge you and push you out of your comfort zone for specific rewards. So long as the game doesn’t force you to have it, it’s not an actual issue, but a manufactured issue that is case-by-case depending on the player.

That all said, I’d just suggest the devs release those gear sets through other means but that doesn’t really solve anything, it just quiets those who would be satisfied with the solution and leave all else excluded.

There’s a big big difference between asking for a hand out and asking for multiple ways to get things. That’s my whole point and your responses are backing up my very need for this thread.

We don’t want to run this particular content so we’re entitled. You’ve said the word. You find the content okay, you’re not disliking it, so anyone who does either has to force themselves to do that content or they’re entitled.

I don’t know about you but I think people play games to have fun. Not to run content they don’t enjoy.

And I still maintain that WvW players would want this stuff as much as PvE’ers would, and yet they’d be forced to PvE to get it. Do you think they’re entitled too? Ugly word if you ask me.

People are using the word entitled to make it seem like people want something for nothing. I simply want to have options to get stuff without having to do something long term that I don’t have fun in a game.

I’m pretty sure that’s not what entitled means.

I completely agree with you. I’d LOVE to be able to unlock legendary gear/weapons through PvP/WvW as those are the gametypes I enjoy. No, I don’t want to HAVE to do crafting/gold farming just to get legendary weapons. That’s super boring to me. I play this game for PvP, so why do I have to always be broke and not get rewarded at all for things I do? PvP reward tracks are a bit rewarding, but after a while, they’re just pointless.

If you PvP, you’ll never be getting as much gold as someone who raids/fractals and I’d argue PvP is much more mechanically challenging than raids and fractals, but that’s a conversation wormhole I’d rather not dive into right now.

Point being, the game should be rewarding in any aspect you play it in. Just like with the legendary PvP back piece, people should be able to get that in other game modes because PvP now has an influx of people PvP’ing that generally don’t want to, or like to. On top of the fact that it’s locked behind RANKED PvP which caters to a very small group of people. Now we have people trying to get into PvP but realize that ranked PvP is a pretty toxic and uninviting community, so the population issues with PvP continues when those people may have been more inclined to stay in PvP if the rewards were more accessible in other modes than just ranked.

Anet is getting too much into the “all or nothing” mindset with their content. With HoT maps, you either join a squad and zerg the map, or you just won’t get the rewards and have fun experiencing the new maps as they’re basically designed around having multiple squads at various points of the maps. With the legendary backpack, you need to do ranked PvP and get to legendary/diamond which almost requires a full premade and voice to get to, as well as having an intense skillset that’s built up over a long period of time and lots of study/practice. People don’t want to have to do that. They just want to play and be rewarded. Now with legendary armor, you either get in a guild that raids, or you just won’t have the armor as pugging is almost impossible unless you somehow already have a lot of AP and experience in the brand new raids. (Seriously though, the raid hasn’t been out that long and people expect experienced players?)

I’m pretty tired of this all or nothing mindset that Anet is pushing, but I guess they’ve done it on purpose as the longer people are grinding, the longer they’re in game, and the more exposure to the gemstore they have which will likely result in the purchase of extra character slots, extra inventory slots to hold all the loot and garbage they give out, outfits, gliders, bank space, gems to gold, etc. It’s a really sneaky business model, but it seems to be working. Until it’s no longer working, I wouldn’t expect much change. The only way to make a company change something so fundamental like this is to hit them where it counts, their sales. If no one is playing their content and buying their outfits/gliders/gems, then they’ll be forced to make changes. Which is exactly what I’m doing. I’ve basically quit the game. I login for the daily rewards, then log right back out. The game is just simply not rewarding enough in many aspects, and they know it. I just hope they make some changes that they say they’re going to in terms of rewarding players more.

Thank you for your amazing post, Vayne.

Obtena.7952:

Sarrs.4831:

They make outfits because it’s drastically easier to build an outfit than it is to build 18 armor pieces.

Some people are willing to pay more for more customizable gear. Anet should explore that space more, considering it’s their revenue.

I would pay almost double for a really cool armor set than an outfit. I haven’t bought an outfit other than the ninja, which I never use.

Aidan Savage.2078:

How long is it going to take for you people to realize anet has stated that the god kitten armor sets are going to be obtained INGAME ONLY?

And how many new armor sets did they put into HoT?

It’s because their philosophy is, “minimum effort for maximum dolla’.” Apply that to every aspect of the game, and here we are today.

“Fix PvP balance!”
- “Ok, we’ll just remove some amulets.”
“Fix WvW!”
- “Ok, we’ll make EoTM.”
“Fix dungeons!”
- “Ok, we’ll make fractals.”

Seriously, everything they’ve done in the past couple years has been all about minimizing effort and maximizing their dollars. The state of HoT at launch being so unfinished is just another prime example. They’ve lost a lot of players because of this business paradigm.

The irony is, a cheaply made product will be treated as such. The more love you put into your product, the more others will love it as well. Art that takes a long time to produce and is polished well will sell for thousands more than something that is just slapped together and tossed into the community.

The only outfit I bought is the ninja, and even that I regretted. Haven’t purchased an outfit since. They’re just a cheap novelty. Nothing special.

This game has so much potential, but Anet keeps missing the mark.

Browrain.7346:

Anomaly.7612:

Yeah, let’s have the OP upload a vid so all you wannabe pros that came here to troll can line up like a firing squad. Yeah, right.

I agree with the OP. Whether they’re a “good” player or not is not for me, or any of you, to judge. What they say is true though. The balance of the game is completely awful. Just take a look at the current pro series. Mirror matches? That’s not fun at all.

Except most of the things he said aren’t true at all, or just plain wrong. Let me know what division you’re stuck in and i’ll try to help you improve and get out of this “mmr hell” people keep insisting exists.

Nah, I’m good, but thanks. I’ve studied streams, read guides, talked to legend players, and done my fair share of practicing, but nothing seems to help as I can’t carry hard enough it seems. I’m a ruby player with a 50% W/L so apparently that’s as good as I’ll ever get (or so says the game) so I’ve given up on the game until they make some changes to balance and MM as there are better things to do with my time than smack my head against a wall. ^^

Yeah, let’s have the OP upload a vid so all you wannabe pros that came here to troll can line up like a firing squad. Yeah, right.

I agree with the OP. Whether they’re a “good” player or not is not for me, or any of you, to judge. What they say is true though. The balance of the game is completely awful. Just take a look at the current pro series. Mirror matches? That’s not fun at all.

Agemnon.4608:

But why should they even get the backpack without earning it with their skill?

We all know people want the backback to look like great PvP’ers but if you aren’t then why should you have it? Whenever we lose it is always our fault, for we could always have done something better. True mastery of the self requires of us to weed out these mistakes.

True, but taking responsibility for four other players doesn’t make sense. If everyone isn’t following this same logic, it simply won’t work, but I do think that if you’re good enough, you can carry. It just takes playing the right class/spec and knowing how to play well enough, but even then it’s a gamble as you can’t be a puppet master to 4 other people who could just be feeding them kills.

Dyze.1580:

The system now doesn’t incentives fighting a losing battle. If anything it gives incentive to lose faster, rather then trying to keep fighting.

Funny, people told Anet that this would happen but they still went through with it. You used to not lose a pip if the game was close. Not anymore though.

Burn.5401:

I usually queue only in the afternoon and the games I get are generally good with most of the players being in the same skill/pip range. Today I played a few in prime-time and witnessed lower div trio/4man queues over and over. I get that the party system takes only the rating of the highest rated play in your group, but the people who are forced to play with those crippled half-teams are not having a good time. The only solution I can think of as of now is for the system to try and match similar “multi-division” teams together. Yes it will probably take them longer to get a game, but they’re multiple guys to begin with. I’d rather have a complete soloQ team consisting of div6 players then a guy playing with his amber friends.

I can tell you with full confidence that they won’t do that for the same reason why they won’t disallow class stacking in ranked. The Q times would be too long. We simply don’t have the player base to make that possible.

Seeing those diamond games gives me no incentive to try and push through Ruby to get to diamond. Hell, that seriously looks like the amber games from the beginning of the season. Anet is about as good as Blizzard is at making people hate a full game type. First it was WvW and now it’s SPvP.

They might as well just come out and tell us that they’d rather us be doing the raid insead.

Ruru.1302:

For some of us, the ranked queue button may as well say “match me with the challenged”. You can’t control what the matchmaker gives you; some games you might get god’s gift to pvp, and the next game you may as well have been matched with a toddler on a unicycle.

But there is one thing, one variable you can control – your own gameplay. Sometimes you are just too frustrated with your teammates to see your own mistakes; mental exhaustion due to perceived mistakes does do that to you.

Consider this thread.

The OP had repeatedly expressed dissatisfaction with his teammates, to the point he was convinced that he was doing nothing wrong, and to prove his point, he put up a video , which, quite frankly, as quoted by “new players are cancer”: some of the worst gameplay i’ve ever watched.

The reason I bring up that thread is because it contains THE most constructive criticism I’ve ever seen on this forum, in spite of OP defending his very very subpar play. Now, this isn’t an attack on that thread’s OP, but the amount of players willing to help him before and after the video drastically changed, and the majority of those helpful players were diamonds/legends.

Based on the above, I feel that if people were more willing to share footage of their gameplay, they would receive more help and would be able to climb faster.

If I had the technology capable of doing so, I’d record my gameplay. I find I’m an above average but not incredible player who’s getting better quickly, but I’ve been on teams with people who rush 1v3 mid. Go beast when we don’t have mid 3 minutes into the game. Play builds that just don’t make sense. Refuse to change class to have a better matchup when our team comp will obviously fail (3 support Ele’s in stronghold, like what?)

One person can only carry so much in this game.

Evan Lesh.3295:

Getting ‘stuck’ in ruby is a very important topic regarding how best league should operate. We changed matchmaking to make the ladder more prestigious and so far it has done that. Divisions are aligning with skill level much better than season 1. The product of this change is that the bulk of players who hover around the middle of the mmr curve should stay in sapphire and ruby. Win rate will level out at 50% because there are plentiful players of similar mmr in the same division.

Should average players be able to climb out of the middle divisions by grinding? This removes prestige and can make matchmaking worse within a division, but always allows a sense of progression.

Should average players stay in the middle divisions because that’s where they belong at their skill level? This retains prestige and only improving skill will allow climbing, but rewards and progression stop at some point through the season.

Is there an incentive that could be added to league games for players who have reached their appropriate division and can no longer climb?

This post seriously seems like an inflammatory “git gud” post. Mechanical skill doesn’t matter in a game that’s more about how well you can outrotate the other team, and what comp your team is running. Face it, Evan. Your team has made a system that caters to ESL level players that are premade on TS.

There are SO MANY builds and classes that are just completely irrelevant this season. How does it show skill that I can get on a Necro (that I rarely play) and faceroll a mid fight and win just because Necro’s are just OP teamfighters? This game is really lacking in the “skill” and rewards department and it’s severely pushing vets (like me) away from y(our) game.

Fix the matchmaking. Base the enemy team on MMR as well. Make crossing divisions require a certain MMR. Increase MMR if you win. Decrease it if you lose. Divisions can be lost. Increase MMR more if the team you’re facing has a much bigger MMR and your team should statistically lose. Don’t decrease the MMR if your team was statistically supposed to lose.

I really don’t understand why your team doesn’t get this (not even) novel concept. It’s like you guys have never played ranked games before.

The system you’re trying to put on the majority of players caters to the minority. The system would work if there were more people playing this game, but thanks to your team not being able to balance to save your careers or add a decently rewarding system, or making a PvP lobby worth staying in, you DON’T have the population to make this system work.

Sorry not sorry for seeming angry. I just feel like y’all are so kitten out of touch with your playerbase. I hope for Anet’s sake that things change, and change quick, because there are other games out there, and more coming soon, that will REALLY hurt this one if things aren’t made better. (See: Crowfall, Black Desert Online, Over Watch, Paragon)

I just want to /hug people I’ve killed. Is that too much to ask?

Build saver. That is all.

Sphinx.8014:

I know what you mean. Five minutes of PvE gets you more stuff than an hour of WvW. In fact, you will often pay extra there, as siege, food and stuff isn’t cheap.

Anet announced a rework of the reward system for WvW, and I have created a thread in the WvW forum to collect ideas and opinions on how to change the rewards there. Unfortunately, participation was very sparse, so please share your ideas there. The devs do seem to read the forums at the moment, so your ideas will be heard.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/wuv/What-rewards-reward-tracks-would-you-want/first#post6043440

I think I may have added some ideas there already, but all it boils down to is more rewards via ascended gear acquisition, fix the population imbalance, and smaller maps that are flatter.

Lite Ning Strike.5203:

Wow can I get the summarized version of the Original post?

There’s not enough incentive to play the various parts of the game via better reward systems, especially in PvP/WvW. There aren’t enough viable builds per class. Each class should be able to play numerous builds to fill the role of tank/healer/DPS.

At least, that’s what I read.

EdenEnix.6341:

Snip.

I honestly feel the same way you do. I really don’t have much to add. I wish they made ascended gear more worth getting, and more means of attaining it. I agree about having more ability to play different roles per class. There’s no Ninja Nurse build for Thief, and I would LOVE that. I think the holy trinity is a good concept, but just make each class able to perform that role if so desired.

I don’t know how the rest of you feel, but I’ve been playing this game for a long time and unless I’m doing PvE content, I just feel like this game is really lacking in rewards. Other than getting more skilled just to be more skilled, I feel like there’s real point to playing, and when I take that step back to see that fact, I usually just logout to go do something else.

Needless to say I’m just bored. There’s a lot to do as far as chieves and such, but for PvP and WvW, the game feels like there’s no reward. I’d love if there were more ascended items given through PvP and WvW, and more gold, or more items to sell for gold, because as it is now, if you just PvP or WvW, you’re going to be pretty broke. WvW used to be fun, but with population issues, it just sucks all the potential fun away.

Bai! o/

Travis.3487:

I don’t understand why everyone has so much trouble with revs in 1v1’s. most revs for me are a cakewalk. And DH aren’t that hard to beat either my initial burst drops em to 10-20%hp then as they go to heal pistol 4 or use the steal skill you just got from them. Then if their traps are proc’d as you hit them, dodge/shadow step out and wait till they go away. Once the traps are gone DH’s shouldn’t be able to handle you. And true shot should be easy to dodge. Fighting dh is just placement and timing (element of surprise helps too)

Wow it sounds like you’re fighting awful DH’s because if they’re not using blocks against all your burst, they’re doing it wrong.

Mistward looks cooler, imo, and Crystal Arbiter is just a dev’s creation who REALLY likes Tarric from LoL. Gems are truly outrageous, afterall.

Power Rev is just better. A good way to stop some condi’s when they swap to Scepter is to not use anything that buffs you. Just use your regular attacks and CC the hell out of them when they’re not in shroud. When they’re in shroud, just run away and kite them while you watch them spam their abilities like morons, or they leave shroud instantly, giving about 10 seconds to DPS/CC them to oblivion. A good CC rotation is staff 2 to interrupt, shiro heal, staff 5 for big burst and CC, swap to glint, glint elite, then UA and proceed to melt them. They’ll probably have shroud again, so just run away til they drop it again. Rinse and repeat. No agony needed as it’s just wasted time when they’ll just corrupt it.

Burtnik.5218:

Kite shroud (or use sword 2 and ua to get rid of it faster), dodge marks, save glint heal and staff 4 for condi clean. If they are using scepter keep in dancing around their back to interrupt boon corrupt hit.

Dont feed them (spectral armor), dps and cc the kitten out of them, make wise use of Shiro chill clean and thats about it. Oh in case of rise shout – line em up with necro and staff 5. I personally didnt lost to a reaper 1v1 this season yet.

Most important note – i use sword oh, immobilize for shroud and grasp shadow works great vs them.

All of this is great. Also, just ping the Necro and wait for someone else to help you fight them. Just don’t 1v1 a Necro or condi Mez. Rev can 1v1 any class except those two. Consider yourself lucky. Thief can’t 1v1 anything efficiently besides a ranger. You can always just rotate somewhere else instead of 1v1’ing them while being much more useful, then bring a friend along to help you 2v1 the necro.

Booms.2594:

Freeelancer.2860:

I don’t know about the player base, but being in those same queues and not seeing anything close to the times you mention tells me somebody or some people is/are lying through their teeth.

Nah legend gets qs from 10-60min qs. On average probably 25 depending on the amount of Legends on.

You’d be lucky to get as short as 10 minute Q in Legend. I often watch Legend streamers and they have to wait about 20 minutes each time. FeelsBadMan.

Yasi.9065:

There is NO way to recover atm. You get on the loosing side, you stay on the loosing side.

Why? Because as soon as you get on the loosing side, you get matched with players that are worse than you. The system keeps matching you with those players against teams with 2-3 good players and 2-3 luckers. Now, some matches you get 3 luckers and you can carry 4 against 3 luckers. Thats when you break your loosing streak.
Most matches you get 3 good players (and I mean by good in NO way ESL niveau… just people that know to watch sidepoints) and it is impossible to carry 4 players against that.

So, as soon as you lost too many matches, this season is OVER for you in anything but 5 man premades. Because the system simply does not let you recover. It is designed to not let you recover. Get good? Sure, maybe if you instantly get to the level of an ESL player. But I dare any ESL to try to carry the teammates my mainaccount gets. Try to “carry” if your team fights a 4v2 on mid all the match and no matter what you do (+3ing that, which is just plain stupid to even have to do, or pushing side points, or pushing map extras, YELLING at them) you cant get them to start rotating.

So, you got hit by a loosing streak in the beginning, when all the “better” players blew through amber? Might as well stop playing immediately. The highest you will get is ruby, and only with tons of work.

Want to keep playing pvp because you love it so much? Just make a F2P account with a fresh mmr and ride the luck train all the way to at least diamond.

Thats how you get “happy” with this season’s mechanics.

My advice to you is that if they’re getting 4v2’d at mid is that you have one person sit on home to watch it against a mid invasion once they cap it, and have 2 more 2v1 far and cap that, then instantly have one person run home as the two dead teammates rezzing will easily 4v4 home, then decap mid, and 5v4 home. Bam, created some momentum for your team.

It really is possible to carry bad players. The thing about “bad” players is that their actions and rotations are usually pretty typical and basic. Such as, “Oh hey, I see enemies at mid,” and like lemmings, they all go mid without thinking. “Bad players suffer from massive tunnel visions.” Now, a more skilled player might think, “Ok, we have an engi on home, and their support Ele is dueling them. Well, the Engi has no issue with this, so I’m going to go elsewhere to be more effective than +1’ing a fight that will take too long anyways.”

You have to think about how you can be the most effective asset to your team at every given moment, depending on your class and role. I really suggest watching an ESL player that plays your same class/spec on twitch/youtube as you’ll learn a lot. Also, PROBE THEIR MINDS. O_O Fo’real, just as them anything. Ask them what’s going through their head in a certain situation.

The only way to get better is to emulate the mindset of those that already are. This game is 3 parts knowledge of the map and rotations, and 1 part mechanical skill of your class.

cptaylor.2670:

I’d really love to know what the formula is for “carrying” a team of 4 people against 5 other people in a game that requires you to be in 3 other areas capping points. These people constantly insisting they’re “carrying” their team must be pretty skilled to be able to be in so many places at once and take on entire teams of people.

Please, share your secrets so I can get done with this division and be out of this perpetual hell.

Also, would love to know why people think that possessing mid grants you more points or why it isn’t strategic to go far which is practically empty distracting them instead of dying with the rest of your teammates in an aoe kittenfest.

I’m just beyond sick of the people in solo queue, sick of this meta, sick of this season, and sick of the apathy from the devs.

I sincerely hope people leave by the masses.

Hmm, I’m not sure what division you’re in, but if people in your division believe that going far is a bad idea, then it sounds like you might be emerald or sapphire. No judgement there.

The general idea for carrying means that you, as the player carrying, are keeping in mind the things that your team probably isn’t aware of due to skill level. Such as, team comp and which team has a better chance of winning team fights and because of this, is going mid beneficial, or will your team just wipe, meaning that you’re better off going far right out the gates and letting them distract your opponents. Another carrying example is if you, as assumed carry, are more mechanically skilled or playing a stronger class than your teammates, meaning you have to quickly figure out who the kill target is in the first fight, call said target, then do your best to down and kill them ASAP.

Being very aware of the map is really important, and if you’re carrying, your teammates probably aren’t as aware of the map; how many enemies are about to rez, where they’re likely to go, watching out for your lord, pushing into their lord when no one else thinks to, etc.

Basically, the mindset behind carrying is if you’re generally more aware of various factors that result in a win than the rest of your team, and using that awareness to make snap decisions and lead them to victory. (granted they listen to you and help out as they’re able).

Here’s a great guide by Zoose of PZ that can really help you to understand the maps more and lead your teams to victory.

Cheers! o/

This game is more about team comps and rotating properly than actually being a more mechanically skilled player. That’s it.

Fat Disgrace.4275:

I run base 50% crit chance with 2754 power 16k health 205 crit dmg and 2300 armour and scrapper runes. It’kitten and miss for s/d thief but playing dp or staff I crit for 9k back stabs or 8-9k vaults.

That sounds awesome. Build link?

adelaide.6213:

Anomaly.7612:

adelaide.6213:

PU builds haven’t been as popular since HoT was released because of scrapper/herald reveals.

The WvW power shatter builds that seem to be the most effective atm use Defender Runes + Mantras. Defender runes + heal mantra gives mesmers yet another safe-stomp mechanic, counterplay against certain class skills, and great sustain.

You can find the builds I and another notable mesmer use here:
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/mesmer/Video-Chronomancer-WvW-Project-Twilight

Wow, that build looks really solid! I like it. A Mesmer was using a build against me on my thief in WvW that was able to 100-30 me very quickly and I do believe they were using mantras of some sort as when they would burst me, there would be a graphic below me.

I’d love to try this build out. Could I use zerker trunks or a mix of valk/zerk with similar results? Also, what’s stronger in WvW overall, Mez or Rev?

I personally use Commander’s armor + Berserker trinkets/weapon. There’s probably going to be some people that will question my choice of Commander’s (power/precision/toughness/BoonDuration) armor (and its pretty expensive too.)

I would start off with Marauder’s armor, Cavalier amulet, and Berserker’s rings/accesories. You can buy the Marauder’s insignia recipe for karma from a normal crafting vendor.

Is Marauder armor hard to find? Now just to buy that amulet…

Taobella.6597:

i think it fine what you are running you should honestly have no problem killing 80% of people in WvW

Awesome! There’s this mantra-ish mesmer build that I’ve seen lately that’s been ripping me to shreds in seconds though. I’d actually love to play a Mez in WvW. xD So much utility.

adelaide.6213:

PU builds haven’t been as popular since HoT was released because of scrapper/herald reveals.

The WvW power shatter builds that seem to be the most effective atm use Defender Runes + Mantras. Defender runes + heal mantra gives mesmers yet another safe-stomp mechanic, counterplay against certain class skills, and great sustain.

You can find the builds I and another notable mesmer use here:
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/mesmer/Video-Chronomancer-WvW-Project-Twilight

Wow, that build looks really solid! I like it. A Mesmer was using a build against me on my thief in WvW that was able to 100-30 me very quickly and I do believe they were using mantras of some sort as when they would burst me, there would be a graphic below me.

I’d love to try this build out. Could I use zerker trunks or a mix of valk/zerk with similar results? Also, what’s stronger in WvW overall, Mez or Rev?

Hey, I’m looking for a solid WvW build that’s power-shatter and includes chrono. http://metabattle.com/wiki/Build:Mesmer_-_Burst_Shatter is the one that’s on metabattle, but it doesn’t include chrono and I’d rather use sword/shield than sword/torch.

Is the build on metabattle better than if you had chrono? If not, what build would be best?

godsie.2864:

Anomaly.7612:

godsie.2864:

well I’m trying but cant

I highly recommend watching pro player’s streams/vids of those that play your class and watch how they rotate, what skills they combo, the people they tend to fight, etc.

The only way to get better is by emulating those that already are.

I have watched lots of the pro videos online already in preparation
cant do any more than keep trying and hoping one day….

A LOT of this game is watching rotations and being mindful of where your team is at, where the other team is at, and what’s going on with the map like, buffs/lord/beasts/etc. Also being mindful of how many enemies are alive and where they’re at. How many are rezzing, and when they rez, they’re probably going to try and take home/far, so someone should be back capping/watching. That kind of stuff can help you to carry matches in the division you’re in.

Also, playing a class that can carry well is good too. Mesmers and Revs are the best at it right now. Mez because of ports and Moa. Rev because they’re just so self sufficient, but die to condi really easily. I’ve been playing Rev and enjoy it, but I also really like playing Mez as the ports/clones are just so much fun. Mez is much harder to play than Rev, though.

godsie.2864:

well I’m trying but cant get out of emerald so I don’t think I can “grind” my way out
also am an average player who knows a little of what he is doing – still stuck despite trying to solo and team up
agree that ruby is where the players who know what they are doing are and more skilled – but I will never see that despite trying and wanting to improve as hard as I can – am stuck

I highly recommend watching pro player’s streams/vids of those that play your class and watch how they rotate, what skills they combo, the people they tend to fight, etc.

The only way to get better is by emulating those that already are.

Taobella.6597:

when i ran power thief in WvW i prefer strength but if you wanted to go with scholar i would recommend trying to hit 60 – 70% crit rate with fury because your goaling to end a fight in 3 seconds after you get hit that set basically dead weight.

if you want to run that rune set i would suggest picking up signet of agility to boost your crit rate up with out having to really change your gear around.

What would be most optimal for my gear right now, then? In terms of food and runes.

This looks really good, but torment on interrupt is really only good if you’re condi, so no real need to take that. You’d be better off with bountiful theft for the vigor, or trickster and using withdraw heal. Brawler’s tenacity is alright since you’re using a lot of physical skills, but if you’re finding that you’re still taking too much damage, you can always swap to weakening strikes and your survivability will go up a lot more. If you’re still dying a lot, I’d recommend some Valk gear, but you should be fine with zerkers.

Instead of P/P, you can always run Shortbow for some AoE, or even staff. I kinda feel like the new weps were designed for the new maps as staff gives a LOT of AoE out, profectile reflect on AA, a ton of evades, weakness on demand as well as blindness in a line to hit multi-target. And Vault is just so good. You can even run bound if you’re using staff and get a ton of evades out of it with channeled vigor, but just be sure to use staff mastery along with it.

I raid with my guild and hardly die when using staff with bound as there’s just so many evades. Also, bound and black powder gives on demand stealth with very little initiative cost. All things you can try, but your build looks pretty great!

Jana.6831:

At least you changed chunk to gunk – thanks for that (it seriously hurt my eyes)

On topic: I don’t care anymore – thief is dead anyway.

ETA: To not sound like a sour kitten (which I do no matter what I guess) :
Even if they nerf a lot of the passives of other classes, my D/D still would be unviable. Even if they nerf classes and rework SA so I can use CiS and SRej, nothing would change. Even if they did all of that, the evades without evades would still be there, my CnD would miss more often than it hits anyway. Even if they fix all of the former there’s still forced reveal which turns me into a lootbag. Even if they fix and remove all of the above I would still be stealthed non stop by allies = messing up my “rotations” = yes, I finally lost hope.

They can change throw gunk into throw chunk – it still wouldn’t mean a thing.

There is hope! https://www.twitch.tv/sindrenerr
He’s really good. Watch his highlights and past streams.

Taobella.6597:

at 44 % it on low end with fury 64% is fine you do not really need it higher then that just if you drop pack you lose 10 second of fury means you only have fury on steal you do not want to waste it just to have stat buff.

if you wanted to run another rune set you have to think about raising your crit rate to 50% base line

What would I have to do if I wanted to run Scholar Runes? I’ve heard more praise for them than Pack.

Puz.8529:

BeepBoopBop.5403:

Thief main here. If you play thief in ranked, get on the other team. I know exactly what odds this class is against with the current meta. While its not as bad as last season (NOTHING could be that bad), it is still foolish, selfish, and arrogant to roll thief in ranked unless you are in a premade that is OK with it.

It is NOT a class to solo with as pugs will often not know how to play with a thief and dealing with aspects such as dealing with an outnumbered team fight while you decap.

I have to disagree. Playing any class is selfish if you look at it like this. Thief brings special abilities that can change the game. But you need others on your team to play as a team, along with the thief! However most people keep on playing their own game, just as selfish, and call out a thief for doing what the thief should be doing..

Problem is, you need to be a decent thief (and player in general) to pull off the advantage a thief can bring. And it is way easier on other players if you bring that tank everyone wants on their team.

If you like playing a thief, play a thief and you can do well. If others complain, tell them they could adjust just as much as you could.

In short, show them thieves can be valuable. Just like any other class.

Case and point: https://www.twitch.tv/sindrenerr

The best Thief I have ever seen grace this game. I’ve been watching his stream/highlights everyday and it’s making me a better player. He was recommended by Beyond B, who is also really great.

Crimson Shi.5047:

kdaddy.5431:

Crimson Shi.5047:

Gonna toss my opinion up in dis here thread, and say that double healing is wrong just by switching to a different stance. If only the other classes could be allowed two skill bars, and gain the benefits of a double heal also. Also being allowed to have your heal skill while rezzing your opponent is just silly. You don’t see DH’s have a trap heal cast under them when they rez, or a nec consume conditions while rezzing. With the removal of fast stomping it’s verrrrrrrrrrrry difficult. You can CC the rev for sure, not saying that is not a viable tactic but you’re still helping him with his sustain as all damage suffered is still healing them, no other class has this type of passing rezzing. Even if you look at all the ressing traits, none of them use something akin to theirhealing skill to do it.

The final tweak of course is staff 5, not sure why this skill can still push you back despite stability, you can’t even hit them in mid animation because it count as an evade. The overall damage wise though is pretty strong but is no different to me then when warriors used skull bash on you into 100 blades. Or a thief using devourer/bassi venom to lock you down into a pistol whip. Yes they are not “meta” classes but I’m just saying the crazy dps combo that Rev can is basically to me in the same context ^^.

I completely agree that rev has some broken mechanics but only when its compared to theif, warrior and DH.

Question, does the rev need a nerf if warrior, thief and DH are not in the game? If we completely got rid of those 3 classes does rev need a nerf?

I can do the same thing with engy, it has double heal, double mini form, great condi cleansing, perma stability and amazing boon reapplication. With hammer it gets reflects, team AOE blocks and probaly the 2nd best rezzing class in the game.

Rev isnt op compared to engy

Necromancer can dps and do condi dmg. Also many of its skills are offensive passive. People complained about warriors defensive passive skills. Here the necro takes boons away like resistance,(killed condi rev and warrior) made chill able to dps,(kills thief) thats not including the ability to take condi and give it back to you on crit.

rev doesnt need a nerf when it comes to necro.

OP questions my logic but you cant nerf something when its simply not the best at anything. Rev is on par with the other elite classes atm.

For years its been this way, pew pew ranger was the only viable ranger class for 2-3 years and it struggled against thieves and mesmers on off point fights. Bunker ranger wasnt as good as any ele build, bunker guardian or shoutbow warrior.

Only a few players could use a necro in high level play. Seriously like 2-4 players even used necro before HOT for AG/ESL level play.

There has always been a bottom feeding class. It was ranger,necro,mesmer before and now its simply warriors, thieves, gaurdians turn until anet learns what build diversity is and balance.

Not to mention any nerfs that get implemented affect pve too like it or not.

Which is exactly why anet needs to start balancing PvP separate from PvE. Not sure why they didn’t do this from the start like people have been wanting and asking for years.

Siren.2843:

Exterminate gyro smash, that’s kittening OP really. You can down 1 and revive the other at the same time, WUT?

Gyro stomp is just gross. Makes me mad everytime I see an Engi stomp someone while downing someone else.

Fivedawgs.4267:

style.6173:

I still find it amusing that people are struggling against scrapper when rev, reaper, and ele are all stronger right now.

Scrapper is #4 though and the top 4 all do need a look.

Lmao, I hope you are joking. The Engi from Rank 55 was the Mvp last season, dude totally carried his team. I can’t belive you actually think revs are #4. Dude, scrapper are stronger than revs in this meta.

Yes, he may have done so, but given the time and effort, a good Rev will beat a good Engi. It just takes a good while and not usually worth the 1v1 effort. Engi just has a LOT more team utility than a Rev does, but Rev has much more damage than an Engi can sustain for a long period of time.

Piney.3076:

The only logical response to the ridiculous state of the game. ALL NECRO PVP. Save us a step, delete all our existing characters and make them necros for us. We have no choice in pvp anyway.

The class with by far the best damage that cannot be mitigated in any way, yeah, let’s give them complete immunity to everything. So that after the short wait for the massive unstoppable far outpacing any healing damage kills your teammate, you CAN’T EVEN INTERRUPT THE STOMP.

FIX.
YOUR.
MESS.
NOW.

And please don’t let the lobotomized drooling moron that thought this was balanced near the decision button ever again.

I agree, but a better question, where’s your port bro?

DeWolfe.2174:

And we know you solo’d how?

I say this with salt because I firmly believe “Elo Hell” exists. The last few matches I’m lucky if one person even say’s a single thing all match long. My last match was against 3 thieves, a Necro, and a DH. That should have been an easy win and yet, it’s a loss. Why, because only one person spoke, eventually. Another AFK’d from the start until called out and then just left. Matches are such a bag of crud that I can’t possibly believe someone hit Legend Solo Q’ing. Unless, because you are good, your early wins in Amber gave you an increased MMR. Where you were stacked with good players the entire time.

Or he’s just good? He has like, 3 accounts on diamond/legend now. He had some rough matches in the early tiers with really bad players, though, but Necro’s can carry like none other in this meta.

DeWolfe.2174:

And we know you solo’d how?

I say this with salt because I firmly believe “Elo Hell” exists. The last few matches I’m lucky if one person even say’s a single thing all match long. My last match was against 3 thieves, a Necro, and a DH. That should have been an easy win and yet, it’s a loss. Why, because only one person spoke, eventually. Another AFK’d from the start until called out and then just left. Matches are such a bag of crud that I can’t possibly believe someone hit Legend Solo Q’ing. Unless, because you are good, your early wins in Amber gave you an increased MMR. Where you were stacked with good players the entire time.

He streamed most of it. Can confirm as I watch Sir Jeseet0’s stream. Holla back, Leet’s! 0/

Taobella.6597:

Anomaly.7612:

Taobella.6597:

i would drop shadow refuge an pick up bandit defense it probably top utility on thief in game(think of it like 1.5 second endure pain that come with a free CC ) also flows better with impact disruption. and i would also run impact strike over basilisk vemons same reason expect impact strike second and final hit almost same amount of dmg as a backstab think of it casting 2 backstab with out stealthing.

main reason i take trickster over bountiful theft is it uses very bad boon ripping. where it first to last. unlike say new intrup sigil that rip boons it has set order in witch it steal them.

and even if con clear is not overly being used just withdraw the 14 second on heal is pretty good.

i would take weakening strike over havoc mastery just because your trying to goal for a high dmg build does not mean you can not become tanky. think of this way you have posion on your dagger + steal cause weakness + weakness on crit is effective up time of 9 seconds very 20 seconds lower your dmg taken by almost 50%. + you put dash ontop of it your dmg reduction get pretty insane.

for food you should run bountful maintenance because you really do not have stat to make use of it an only a loss of 1% crit rate over gaining 1s on all your boons.

for sigil i would drop sigil of blood and pick up sigil of draining because it does 2x more dmg then blood on same cd just need to intrup to get value from it. with the amount of CC you have on your build with that changes it pretty easy to do.

i hope all this info is helpful

Yes, thank you! Are pack runes still good? I’ve heard good things of daredevil runes as well. Also, I’m still skeptical on bountiful oil as it seems that extra 1% crit might be better than a little more might uptime (when I do have it) as crit rate is constant, but not might. Sigil of draining would definitely be great. Is it better than fire now?

because your crit rate so low pack probably best option for you daredevil would be good but it combo better with bounding dodger. with dash you probably always be in a bad spot where that crit going to get value. also with pack you get 100% up time on fury.

sigil of draining to see number is roughly 2k dmg on intrup on 5 second CD
sigil of fire is roughly 1k can hit 5 target on 5 second CD

so unless you are always hitting 2 target it dmg loss.

to answer your question on how to take a camp what you do is run in to camp try to pull them so all stack up against a wall then pop dagger storm spam cluster shot it should clear everything in about 2 minutes.

Do I need more crit chance then as well?

Patrick.2987:

If i remember correct thief wins not a single 1v1, can t stand on point. Rev has the same role of +1 and decap but can even stay outnumbered for sometime cause has more blocks, invul and armor. Basically it should be a choice if u run thief or rev but currently there is no chance for running thief instead of revenant and that should be a sign maybe.

As a Thief main and Rev alt, I agree. I can’t tell you how many times I’ve been told to reroll Rev instead of play Thief. It’s sad.

Siren.2843:

Revenant is only OP in the hands of good players, it IS OP then mind you. And when you nerf other profs, revs inevitably have go down with them, else they come out too strong.

to the solo Q players (including myself): REVS HAVE NO STAB, hence the high skillcap!

But….Stab on dodge. I agree, though. Nerf everything besides the most underperforming classes.

Link.1049:

It’s your build. Don’t run full glass. Also, if you’re running in a zerg you are backline, you dodge in, you dodge out. Take out the weak. If you’re roaming, you need to be comfortable flipping a camp on your own, and know when you’re outmatched. Shortbow 5 is your friend.

What’s the fastest way to flip a camp with a Thief? Do you swap out D/P for S/P?

Taobella.6597:

i would drop shadow refuge an pick up bandit defense it probably top utility on thief in game(think of it like 1.5 second endure pain that come with a free CC ) also flows better with impact disruption. and i would also run impact strike over basilisk vemons same reason expect impact strike second and final hit almost same amount of dmg as a backstab think of it casting 2 backstab with out stealthing.

main reason i take trickster over bountiful theft is it uses very bad boon ripping. where it first to last. unlike say new intrup sigil that rip boons it has set order in witch it steal them.

and even if con clear is not overly being used just withdraw the 14 second on heal is pretty good.

i would take weakening strike over havoc mastery just because your trying to goal for a high dmg build does not mean you can not become tanky. think of this way you have posion on your dagger + steal cause weakness + weakness on crit is effective up time of 9 seconds very 20 seconds lower your dmg taken by almost 50%. + you put dash ontop of it your dmg reduction get pretty insane.

for food you should run bountful maintenance because you really do not have stat to make use of it an only a loss of 1% crit rate over gaining 1s on all your boons.

for sigil i would drop sigil of blood and pick up sigil of draining because it does 2x more dmg then blood on same cd just need to intrup to get value from it. with the amount of CC you have on your build with that changes it pretty easy to do.

i hope all this info is helpful

Yes, thank you! Are pack runes still good? I’ve heard good things of daredevil runes as well. Also, I’m still skeptical on bountiful oil as it seems that extra 1% crit might be better than a little more might uptime (when I do have it) as crit rate is constant, but not might. Sigil of draining would definitely be great. Is it better than fire now?