Guild Wars 2

Thieves might as well reroll as Rangers. LoS’ing them was already awful but do-able with sword 2 and such, but now….Nope.

Can someone please help teach me how to kill rangers? I just can’t seem to do it.

I’m the standard SD meta build and I usually engage with teleporting in from LoS, CnD+steal combo, hit them once, LS to dodge the inevitable knock back, try to stay out of barrage, etc, but I end up running out of dodges, they pop their invuln, then it’s all downhill for me from there. Something happens like fear, then rapid fire, then their knock back as their CD’s are small for all of that, then splat.

I keep trying to ask people but they just say I’m bad then I get discouraged to care and log off. For real, what the flip is going on? I used to eat them alive….

I really like the nicely organized list of why this update didn’t really do much for PvP aside from helping out the 4v5 issue. I hope the devs see this and HoT brings some needed changes.

SobeSoul.6910:

Anomaly.7612:

SobeSoul.6910:

Fresh air kills good thieves. I don’t know what you’re talking about.

Ummmm, in what world? The opposite is true.

Also, don’t play S/F not being desired on Thieves. Blame ANet for doing a poor job at Ele traits. Being stuck in the rut of Arcana and water is really lame and it messes up a lot of build options for Ele’s to be more viable.

You’re wrong. Good eles like Shnicky or Zoose can handle thieves while playing S/F ele. Sure, they die when the thief +1’s them, but who doesn’t die when that happens?

I kill thieves when I play fresh air. Sure, good thieves can kill me, but it’s more of a player issue on my part than a class/build mismatch.

Well, duh. Of course a PRO Ele can kill a thief. But in a perfect world on equal fields, if a Thief catches the Ele off guard in ANY situation, the Thief will win about 90% of the time if they steal and chill after they leave water while poisoning while they’re in water. The only chance the Ele has is if the Thief REALLY messes up. Like….Bad.

And hey, as a Thief, I can kill a Medi guard if they suck and I do everything right in the world.

SobeSoul.6910:

Fresh air kills good thieves. I don’t know what you’re talking about.

Ummmm, in what world? The opposite is true.

Also, don’t play S/F not being desired on Thieves. Blame ANet for doing a poor job at Ele traits. Being stuck in the rut of Arcana and water is really lame and it messes up a lot of build options for Ele’s to be more viable.

I’ve always thought that Ele’s should get the attunement boons without traits from launch. It just makes sense. Now, if the Arcana trait was only “share the boons from attunements with surrounding allies,” whereas without the trait, you wouldn’t share the boons, that’d be way more balanced and wouldn’t force Ele’s to go so much into Arcana.

Just my thoughts. I’ve played both Thief and Ele since beta.

Zenith.7301:

God forbid thieves were beholden to the rules of chill and interrupts just like anybody else. But nope.
Thieves are the very reason most classes run bunker builds, because other than mediguard and maybe a well played berk warrior, thief hunts all others out of the meta.

And that’s the only thing that Thieves counter.
/thread

Diva.1476:

ohhh so bloody thiefs are spoiling our business!! :P I see how it is!
But guys, ele do give a lot of healing/ boons support which a thief wouldn’t? I guess every class/ builds have their pros and cons and mobility issue could be fixed with fiery greatsword or even perma swiftness is possible with ele. What you guys think?

FGS has a long CD, and Swiftness is alright, but an SD Thief has that and more (looking at my fancy pants infiltrator arrow). You’re right about the great healing and boon support, but Cele DD does that better than SF does. It sucks that Ele is pigeon-holed into DD cele, but you can thank the meta for that.

inb4 “Thief OP cuz counters other zerkers!” That’s pretty much the ONLY build that Thieves counter, and even a zerker medi guard counters a zerker Thief, so there’s that too.

edgarallanpwn.8739:

I’m pretty sure im sick of theives have 2 stomp avoids as well. Both a movement location, and a smokescreen, they can delay a stomp long enough for them always to get back up

Errrrmmmmm, no. Not always. Hell, not even most the time, or usually.

ronpierce.2760:

My personal views are:
- Stability is okay
- Blind stomping is legit.
- Stealth stomping is fine, you can cc around a downed ally. HOWEVER, I do feel like initiating stomps/finishing stomps on a stealthed person should work, so long as you can find them in stealth just like other attacks. (Would probably require an updated thief downed skill to be fair)

However
- Invuln Stomping is not okay in my opinion~ as it offers absolutely 0 counterplay. Long cooldown or not, its just too safe.

That’s my unbiased view on it all. (I play necromancer, I basically can’t do anything cool to stomp people, so take it for what it is. :P )

I agree with your comment on invuln stomping. It doesn’t make sense from a play standpoint. If you can’t attack, or can’t be attacked, then stomping should not be allowed. Not having any counter doesn’t make for interesting play to play against, or watch, at all.

Mist form and about to stomp
Me on the ground
“Well I guess I’m about to get stomped….” rolls eyes
(super boring)

Coffaro.9214:

I got a feeling. that Sodapoppin will not stick in GW2 for long. I feel sad though for the people that donate like 1000g to him.

Dont get me wrong. I enjoy watching him play gw2, but I dont think he is enjoying the game.

You’re probably right. People who are WoW vets typically don’t like this game because the combat is far more streamlined and has many less abilities/buttons to push.

#savethegolems

/15 golems

Any increased exposure of GW2 is good exposure. These people do have a lot of followers and are way more likely to play a game that their Twitch heroes are playing. If you don’t like Twitch, or the Twitch heroes, then simply don’t watch them, it’s really easy. Point is, because of them, more people WILL be playing the game -> more gem sales -> more content and updates -> better PvP and tournies -> better game overall. It’s pretty simple.

I welcome the Twitch heroes.

So this apparently gets obstructed by air? Are they going to fix this anytime soon? It gets really frustrating in PvP when I’m right next to someone and it doesn’t hit even when they’re not evading and just moving.

ANet’s daily class algorithm has a pretty sick sense of humor. How many Engi days have we had in the past week? Fo’real……

All of you are legends.

WAFFLES
#######################################################################################################################################################################

I agree that it can help experiment build effectiveness to see numbers such as healing/damage done, etc. Also, if the board was at least minutely more effective at showing enemy/ally MMR, points captured, KDR, then there’s a good chance that players of equal strength can team up and play together, building more on the community side of things.

There at LEAST needs to be an MMR indicator and an ability to fluidly re-team up with people who are obviously more or of equal skill level.

Saiyan.1704:

OP is completely off.

It isn’t Esports because we don’t have 2v2, 3v3 matchmaking, an in game ESL Tournament, a working leaderboard, game replays, videos from Anet about certain PvP aspects like Stillness, roaming strategies, etc for beginners to see..
And finally, there’s no commentators after Tournaments. I’d like to see what kind of strategies top teams used to win their games. There hasn’t been a single highlight video showing this.

This game isn’t Esports because the PvP system is a simple byproduct of their beautiful PvE world.

Beautifully said. Other games like LoL have this easily, and the biggest difference between E-sport games and GW2 is that most other E-Sport games don’t have a PvE world attached to it. League, DOTA, and Starcraft don’t have a PvE world with raids/gear/etc. sure SC has a storyline but that’s different than having a full world to roam around in. Don’t get me wrong, GW2’s world is gorgeous, but partionimg attention in two directions isn’t as efficient at all.

Others have said it and I agree, we need a completely seperate game. No more of this shared business. They’re already on the right track with how much they’ve already split, but they need to just cut the dragon slaying umbilical cord for good if they want a successful E-sports game.

Thanks for the feedbacks!

Hmm, weird I haven’t noticed it before for some reason. What difference exactly? I’m really curious.

What are the comparative strengths of each one?

EDIT: Tried the panic strike variant. Not sure how I feel about it. I really miss the traits on the CD tree, plus I really just hate last refuge 80% of the time. The extra condi clears are nice, I’ll give it that, but I feel like I do much less damage for a bit better condi clear. Improvisation is a great trait, though. I feel a bit torn between the two.

What scenarios would grant the PS variant better than the CS one?

Hey Teefbros, I JUST saw that metabattle updated it’s D/P page yesterday to:
http://metabattle.com/wiki/Build:Thief_-_Dagger/Pistol

So a few things, they list the panic strike variant (6/0/2/0/6) as the new meta? That sounds great and all, but I have one qualm, I do NOT like Last Refuge. It’s just really kittenty with a capital S. Please tell me this isn’t the new meta and we can all go along with the Critical Strikes variant we all know and love?

Thanks for the feedback!

This issue is easy. If you’re D/P, just Headshot/steal to interrupt first, then proceed.

If Teef on Khilo, port to the roof and shoutcast the match for your team.

Yeah it does still suck, but just watch your HP bar for when you’re getting close and use it to your advantage.

Have you tried S/D in PvP? All the evades are really fun plus it’s super mobile. Venom share can be really fun. There’s also a ninja medic build that’s slightly a troll build but also really good for quick stealth rezzes in team fights and WvW that I’ve heard goof things about.

So for PvE and WvW I was wondering what rings I should get for a D/P or S/D roaming build? I’ve seen some run zerk+valk:(103Pow/18Vit/50Prec/68Fer) or just zerk:(103Power/68prec/68fero)? I’ll be using 10 pristines fractal relics to acquire this.

I was looking to use a build like this one for WvW:
http://en.gw2skills.net/editor/?fZAQNAV8YlsMp0p9Ox7J0PNxLh4960v1dRg+iC-TlSBwAMOABmVCG5IAcT9HsK/Iu/AKdPLuQAaeAAAOIABAQAYn7cn38m3sQACmAA-w

And the standard for PvE:
http://metabattle.com/wiki/Build:Thief_-_D/D_S/P_Shortbow

Again, which ring should I get?

Thanks!

I think having player scaling would be awesome! Choose from 1-5 and depending on the choice, they could have scaling difficulty and rewards like you said to incentivize multiplayer but not inhibit solo play.

Every can have their cake and eat it, too.

I really just want my individual score during a game to count for something. As a player, I can be doing my job really well. Decapping, recapping, +1’ing where I’m needed (I’m a Thief, afterall), but depending on the pugs I’m matched with, it could still be a horrible loss.

Make personal score mean something.

Stephen.6312:

With a main with no “hard counters” to stealth, invulnerabilities and the like, I agree that stealth has problems. If I could change anything about stealth, I would improve how hidden enemies are revealed. For example, running through a fire field should reveal stealth, together with the application of the burning condition.

That being said, there are problems with the current physics engine inside the game that exacerbate the frustration of players trying to counter stealth. Whilst melee and aoe attacks may hit hidden enemies, many ranged attacks do not. Sure, ranged “channeled” attacks might, but they normally only hit when the channeled skill begins before the targeted enemy enters stealth. Once an enemy enters stealth, ranged auto-attacks are completely useless. In my opinion, this is a major balance issue that needs to be corrected and has only really arisen because of the stealth mechanic. This does not mean that stealth is “broken” – it means that there are inherent problems in the combat system that probably will never be resolved.

R. I. P. stealth counter-play.

So I totally get what you’re going for when it comes to damage should remove stealth, but in order for that to be balanced, we’d have a situation like WoW’s stealth where it is permanent until otherwise broken by the player or damage.

If you think stealth is bad now, permanent is worse. The fact that it’s temporary makes it more predictable and counter able.

Hey! Thanks for the responses. I deleted my post because I didn’t realize people had even responded until after I deleted it. xD My bad. Really good feedback though, thanks.

oneply.9586:

choovanski.5462:

stop being so basic. nearly every theif is melee, when they stealth they are going to go up to you and try and stab you. you might no know where they are when they disappear, but you do know where they are going. AOE at your feet and/or auto attacking while rotating (so they cant backstab) are easy counters.

most theives i fight are idiots and will come into my AOEs and die.

it really does amaze me how under used the shortbow is for so many thieves.

As a Thief main, I agree. Weakness is an amazing and under used condi that’s so readily available for SB. Plus all the dodges. I’ve been Rey close to death before but have tanked til my heal is back with just weakness fields and SB3.

GhOst.4019:

Lol you going to bring those Elites in? Then why don’t we bring plague form elite in…even more useless. Rampage is OP..just because you don’t use it or see it as often doesn’t mean it isn’t. People choose crate for the stun & so they can still use their regular skills. Rampage has an AOE stun that is even better & more CC. Gliph is OP as hell for a zerker build. Just because you are cele, that’s their problem. Gliph hits just as hard as lich.

You don’t even need to LOS the lich…just boon strip it and CC and the whole thing is useless. Or you can just Moa it… Can’t tell me you don’t have a thief, mesmer or necro on your team that can all boon strip (and there are more classes too). All you need to do is get rid of the Stab and it’s GG for the guy in Lich form.

Just bring a knife to a gun fight via Thief and have them steal then fear the piñata.

Thematically, Humans make the best Thieves. A race that’s on the brink of extinction and having to create their last stronghold (Divinity’s Reach) while still being agile and felxible to survive and thrive.

Sounds very Thief-like to me.

babazhook.6805:

Selver.1307:

babazhook.6805:

It simply illogical to dismiss the heal because “it not noticeable unless supplemented with other sources”.

No, not when he is asking for a particular build where the only other supplements available to it are food, mug, and signet of malice. Those alone with probably one of the glassier builds available to thief are not enough to play more offensively to take benefit of it and it be valuable over other options in Critical Strikes.

In general though, I agree with you, and it is workable. I still wouldn’t call it amazing or anything.

I was replying to LOKI who mentioned trying it in a p/p build wherein he concluded that without SOM the heals not sufficient to warrant taking.

P/P has absolutely no use for hidden killer so one must compare the value of Executioner to IP. (P/P has little to no stealth and a hi crit p/p build has little use for hidden killer)

It my contention in such a build IP is superior to executioner. One can easily generate 4k unloads. Even without SOM this means 600 health per unload. This is significant on its own. This is more health then is being gained by someone in hiding with shadows rejuvenation each and every second and is doing damage as it does so.

(Throw in that 325 health steal each second and the benefits even more pronounced. IP PLUS that health steal is like having two heal slots. I suggest a better heal choice is Withdraw in a p/p build so you can have a spike heal as well)

20 percent more damage will only occur after the enemy under 50 percent health. In a P/P build sans stealth one will have little opportunity to take advantage of an enemy under 50 percent health if ones own health not significantly higher. A p/p build using IP will get that enemy down to 50 percent health just as fast as will a p/p build using executioner.

The difference will be the P/P build will benefit from IP throughout the battle and will still benefit if said target heals to over 50 percent. The p/p build with IP will generally have more health when that target reaches 50 percent. if more then one target in range and one is using ricochet the IP user will benefit even more and will even gain health off nearby creatures.

In battles when an enemy sees his or own health dropping even as that of his opponent remains near full they tend to try and break off combat.

The build you’re laying out sounds really interesting! I’ve been having a hard time staying alive in Fractals and dungeons or soloing world content. Would a condi build with all that you’re mentioning be a good transition from a zerker D/D(S/D)+SB 6/6/0/0/2 to what you’re talking about? I really want to try this out but I don’t have the gold to throw down on another full set of gear right now.

I don’t notice a difference. The only difference I noticed is that I have WAY more sustain as I’m not taking as much damage as I used to be from guardians/Ele’s/Engi’s. It’s a welcomed change.

Wow, that all sounds like so much fun and sounds relevant to Thief flavor as well as fun in the current meta while not being OP.

Hey all! So I’ve been playing a Thief in PvE and PvP. I love PvP to death, and I do die often, but PvE just makes me snore hard due to the easy rotation. Is this normal?

Also, what profession/build is your favorite to play as you find it the most FUN? (fun does not have to mean most viable/effective, but just what tickles your brain)!

Slyverine.7081:

GW2 should NEVER follow WOWs way of balancing pvp. WOW pvp was, is, and will be broken. If GW2 goes to WOW steps, iam sure gonna quit. I find GW2 kind of balanced atm, just some minor tweaks are needed. People just need to l2p and stop whinning, this only forces the game to get worse.

And reading now the original post, the aproach happy players=more money is a good as a dead game. This is how wow got started to get corrupted, when blizzard started to give in to people whines and gave easier epics etc etc. That’s when game started to die, because people were happy but wanted more soon after and got bored and eventually, quited.

Oh I totally agree that WoW PvP is super cray, but I was only commenting on how they actually make changes in a timely fashion. Mind you, these changes are thoroughly tested in the public test realm a LOT before they’re shipped out. Something I don’t see this game doing for whatever reason. Who even tests their changes? Do they have a dedicated testing team? It’d be nice to be able to test out new things in a public test realm before they decide to let things go live.

Either way, it’d be nice to see needed changes done sooner rather than later, hence my link of WoW’s hotifxes for January.

So here’s a thought.
http://us.battle.net/wow/en/blog/16561637/603-hotfixes-january-21-1-21-2015

WoW has had hotfixes for balance purposes a total of 9 times with 8 of those times having changes to certain classes to tune numbers for damage, etc.

GW2 could be so much better if they just did small changes more often than waiting so long to do anything. I really don’t understand the wait. It just makes the game feel stale and unloved to me.

glock.6590:

I feel like damage is not something that should get nerfed . Its fine to deal an insane amount of damage if you also die fast. They should instead nerf acrobatics and shadow arts into the ground and revert damage and utility nerfs.

Thief should be an assassin, kill fast or die. Not some evade spammer or stealth abuser that does crappy dmg but still kills people overtime.

I think having all these builds be viable would be great, but I do agree that an assassin type build should be way more viable than it is now. Due to the current meta being all about sustained damage, we’re kind of pigeoned into acro.

Hey all! So I’ve been doing fractals daily and for it, I’ve been using this build:
http://metabattle.com/wiki/Build:Thief_-_D/D_S/P_Shortbow

But I keep finding myself dying to quickly and not able to heal for very much. I don’t have a “oh kitten” button at all. I was wondering what I might want to change about this build if I’m finding that I’m dying all too often to be an asset instead of a liability to my team.

Thanks!

Ok cool, thanks! I’ll get to the grind. Can I make some good gold with it as well? I’d love to be able to sell my stuff for good prices.

Which should I do first to maximize my stats faster? Weaponsmith or LW?

What WvW build would the Thieves in here suggest if not the one on metabattle, which is: http://metabattle.com/wiki/Build:Thief_-_D/P_roamer

Hey! So I’m in all exotics on my Thief but I want to make an Ascended set for WvW. Was planning on going D/P. What craft should I level first?

Thanks!

Hey Thieves!

I was looking for a build that I can use while unlocking traits and doing world content like exploring, filling hearts, etc. Shoot one at me!

Thanks in advance.

How can an S/D thief counter a P/D Thief? Ran into one of these unicorns in unranked and they melted me so fast that I had no time to react.

Teutos.8620:

Tom Gore.4035:

I only hate mesmers because I can’t for the love of my life figure out how to fight them.

That’s the problem with the mesmer balancing.

The newbie players are getting confused by the clones and the teleport-mechanic, that the mesmer is too strong at the bottom tier.

But at some point, the players get better, don’t have that newbie problem anymore, figure out very easy where the mesmer is, and how to counter them, and then eat them for breakfast.

Well….I’ve been playing off and on for a while as a Thief and Ele, and the only way I can seem to beat them is to survive their burst somehow and then strike back. It always seems like the mesmer always gets the opening burst on me no matter what.

Is there going to be a forgiveness period if you D/C but reconnect without say, three minutes? Internet connection is never infallible.

a t s e.9614:

Thief isint that hard , don’t be delusional. 1v1 ing cele bunkers on thief is hard but since its not your job it doesn’t count. The role of thief is easy in PvP. As long as you’re not always in downed state and don’t get farmed by other thieves, you’re still useful just by being a thief.

What exactly is the role of a S/D thief in PvP because I keep hearing the statement of “your job as a thief.”

Cynz.9437:

Good thieves prevail, bad thieves rerolled engis/eles/wars or anything really that runs current meta (aka celestial might stacking crap).

Too much effort to play one when you can drool on keyboard as cele ele and collect points. Thieves by itself are not bad the current meta just favors other classes/builds, besides you don’t want more than 1 thief on team.

Obviously consistent nerfs every single patch are not exactly big motivation for playing the class.

I agree with you on your first point, but you can’t “drool on keyboard” as a cele ele and win. They are more forgiving than a Thief though because they’re not playing zerker. Throw a zerker on an Ele and it will be the same as playing a Thief in that regard.