Guild Wars 2

Guys, come on. this is a thread about Dhummfire on a zerk build not a thread to call out dagger 1 spam dps vids.

I can see why they would take Dhuumfire for a bit more damage (around 1.8k with 25 stacks of might maintianing 6 stacks + 25 stacks of Vuln)
but that is... just reaper 1 spam for the whole fight to maintain this. which isnt really great dps
Now if the build has some burning/condi duration then I can see a bigger benefit of running dhuumfire.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OziITkAcGfw
GW2 F50 Mossman 6:00 - Necromancer solo [with wolves]

Not bad for someone who said they only played necro a few hours.

Tongku.5326:

Steelo.4597:

bloodletting wolf.2837:

Hey bud Anet have said multiple times that the game isn’t balanced on 1v1. Continue to cry and wonder why it doesn’t get changed if that what suits you.

where did they say that? please dont lie.

MANY places MANY times. Game is balanced primarily 5 vs 5 in SPVP. Google advanced search is your friend. They also stated that game balance is rock / paper / scissors style, so there are hard counters to everything, and again, just like in WvW condi is only good for small potatoes and completely fails and breaks down large scale, in 5 v5 in SPVP condi is nearly useless in higher ranks and rated matches where people know how to build.

Problem is that we have too many PVE zerker scrubs running in WvW that are unwilling or too stupid to run decent builds to properly compliment their team mates. On top of that they run into 1v1 hard counter which naturally owns them, then cry foul.

“…scrubs running in WvW that are unwilling or too stupid to run decent builds”
This ^^

CodeHavoc.7926:

There definely needs to be a counter to +condition duration. As of right now with veggie pizza, master quality crystals and a mix of scepter auto and #2 with 2300 condition dmg (necro if you haven’t noticed) I can very well put someone at half health in a matter of seconds, assuming the opponent hadn’t panicked and wasted a condi clear

Melandru and -40% condi duration food is a definite counter.
especially to a necro. I doubt this has changed at all since GW2 has been out.

why not just have fear stack like bleeds & burn

that will make fear the condi burst we need.

coglin.1867:

Your making alot of unfounded claims, while failing to offer any evidence. What happens in other MMOs is irrelevant. If you prefer another games functionality, by all means, go play it.

If your going to cry fowl about a particular damage type, then break it down with numbers for us. This thread is filled with folks making,at best, anecdotal claims, yet I havn’t seen anyone offer evidence thay dire gear builds do any more DPS then a soldier gear build posted is a single post here that is crying fowl. You might as well be arguing that the sky is green.

Way back in the day I made a comparison in damage in a Spvp setting that showed that even in valk/soldiers amulet would still out dps a condi build.
I even showed how other countered me in WvW

Now I know now that things have changed especially the killing power of burning. which is (correct me if im wrong) the main QQ of these condi is overpowered complaints. nerf/recalculate this condition but dont affect the rest of them.

so this should mean a nerf to burning in one of 3 ways:
Lower the damage per tick
Lower the stacks per attack in half
Lowe the duration of each burn stack (for multiple stack skills)

I would stick to around 30%
Necro’s are able to easily apply vuln with several skills with the build you posted.

just being in RS/DS we are able to keep 9 stacks alone without any attacking/chilling/fearing.

BTW nice build

Tongku.5326:

Brando.1374:

zinkz.7045:

mulzi.8273:

no. The problem isnt conditions. The problem lies in the fact that the majority of players are stuck in the ’power’ syndrome, where they try to squeeze every single once of power dmg out of their spec. To do this, they sacrifice condi-clear.

Its their own fault they don’t bring condi-clear. This is why you do not see an uproar in spvp, as folks there will bring condi-clear...

No you don’t see the uproar in PvP because game is balanced for that mode, so balanced for 5v5 where you can have guards, eles, shout warriros etc, AOE cleanse and help out classes/builds that have weak condi removal.

As opposed to WvW where condi is not balanced in the slightest, in large groups it is severely underpowered, in 1v1/2v2, it is severely overpowered, and where the imbalance is made much worse because of access to gear that is considered too broken to be even be allowed in PvP like 40% duration food, 10% duration stones, perplexity runes, givers weapons, sigil of Malice, Dire stats, etc.

Which is why so many nabs play condi when roaming in WvW, and one of the reasons why roaming is pretty dead in this game.

ok, lets say we use this build for an example
http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vRAQNArYWjc0QnNWdD22A/NOCGKZTv0PdMpDgIgeFfRTA-TFiHAB0+AAaTfAu7Pso6PAcKAsTJoRK/A+IAEAABYmlZZOzAjX8iX8iX8MzZOzZOzZWKAIWWB-w

+50% condi duration with food
+30% confusion duration with runes
+100% condi duration with scepter attacks

lets just use the Auto attack bleeds for now. which in this build total to 12.5s and deals 184 Damage per second per stack for a total of around 2208 over 12s.

now run any build with melandru runes and lemongrass soup which is -65% condition duration.

Now the fun part...
12.5s - 65% = 4.3s ...........

4.3s at 184 damage is about 736 damage per stack!

so where is this OP long lasting condition damage coming from?

Actually, with reduced condi duration by 65% you wont even get thatnumber of stacks, cause you need the longer duration for the stacks to build up, it takes a few ticks no matter how you slice and dice it. you need duration to get the extra stacks.

just log onto any condi build in the game, even on same (your main condi) you have some that get applied for as little as 2 secs on some builds on rare occasions, but 4-6 secs often. so with the reduction, the low end duration stacks fall off and dont even make it to the end of that calculation.

anyone can verify this very easy, just go to silverwastes on a condi build pick one of those vet event mobs, kill it while using +40% duration food and note your total stacks and how long it takes them to build up.

then switch to condi damage + magic find instead of the duration, you will notice your total stacks fall off drastically.

The point I was trying to make was every since class/build can counter the so called "OP" condition classes by simply reducing the condition duration.

Now if players dont want to adapt then why should other classes/type of damage be nerfed?

Also PVE mobs dont cleanse conditions to the 40% duration increase will be noticed for sure. Not so much in WvW

zinkz.7045:

mulzi.8273:

no. The problem isnt conditions. The problem lies in the fact that the majority of players are stuck in the ‘power’ syndrome, where they try to squeeze every single once of power dmg out of their spec. To do this, they sacrifice condi-clear.

Its their own fault they don’t bring condi-clear. This is why you do not see an uproar in spvp, as folks there will bring condi-clear…

No you don’t see the uproar in PvP because game is balanced for that mode, so balanced for 5v5 where you can have guards, eles, shout warriros etc, AOE cleanse and help out classes/builds that have weak condi removal.

As opposed to WvW where condi is not balanced in the slightest, in large groups it is severely underpowered, in 1v1/2v2, it is severely overpowered, and where the imbalance is made much worse because of access to gear that is considered too broken to be even be allowed in PvP like 40% duration food, 10% duration stones, perplexity runes, givers weapons, sigil of Malice, Dire stats, etc.

Which is why so many nabs play condi when roaming in WvW, and one of the reasons why roaming is pretty dead in this game.

ok, lets say we use this build for an example
http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vRAQNArYWjc0QnNWdD22A/NOCGKZTv0PdMpDgIgeFfRTA-TFiHAB0+AAaTfAu7Pso6PAcKAsTJoRK/A+IAEAABYmlZZOzAjX8iX8iX8MzZOzZOzZWKAIWWB-w

+50% condi duration with food
+30% confusion duration with runes
+100% condi duration with scepter attacks

lets just use the Auto attack bleeds for now. which in this build total to 12.5s and deals 184 Damage per second per stack for a total of around 2208 over 12s.

now run any build with melandru runes and lemongrass soup which is -65% condition duration.

Now the fun part…
12.5s – 65% = 4.3s ………..

4.3s at 184 damage is about 736 damage per stack!

so where is this OP long lasting condition damage coming from?

Lightsbane.9012:

Brando.1374:

Infect.2738:

Brando.1374:

Tim.6450:

nearlight.3064:

Your argument is wrong. The condi damage stat powers up the damage from transffered conditions,

This one is wrong.

How so?
From what I know whatever condition a necro transfers to another player uses that necromancer condition damage.

Funny enough, transfers use the original owner’s stats. That’s why its possible to kill things like engi’s with their own condition damage even though you could be running soldier. Its quite backwards.

And while cele necro isn’t bad, i don’t think its the strongest build still.

Wow I really thought transferring conditions used the Necro’s condi damage and not the other players.

but then what would be the point of sending back conditions from power builds as they dont use the necro’s condi damage?

……
…..
to cleanse them?

lol aside from that, I was always under the impression that if lets say a P/D thief loaded me with bleeds I can xfer them to him with my condi damage as most of the time I was running over 2k condi dmg (WvW).

I guess I was wrong, well at least I learned something new today.

Infect.2738:

Brando.1374:

Tim.6450:

nearlight.3064:

Your argument is wrong. The condi damage stat powers up the damage from transffered conditions,

This one is wrong.

How so?
From what I know whatever condition a necro transfers to another player uses that necromancer condition damage.

Funny enough, transfers use the original owner’s stats. That’s why its possible to kill things like engi’s with their own condition damage even though you could be running soldier. Its quite backwards.

And while cele necro isn’t bad, i don’t think its the strongest build still.

Wow I really thought transferring conditions used the Necro’s condi damage and not the other players.

but then what would be the point of sending back conditions from power builds as they dont use the necro’s condi damage?

Tim.6450:

nearlight.3064:

Your argument is wrong. The condi damage stat powers up the damage from transffered conditions,

This one is wrong.

How so?
From what I know whatever condition a necro transfers to another player uses that necromancer condition damage.

Sagat.3285:

alain.1659:

Necromancers are very good at applying conditions

It was at this moment that you lost all credibility.

well he isn’t completely wrong with that statement.

Necromancers are very good at applying different conditions but don’t have great damaging condition stacking ability.

roachsrealm.9284:

necro’s can still dish out conditions, just not as fast as other classes, but you get more variety for sure.

chill had a recent nerf with the blind trigger trait. avoid this.

after the recent patch I went with a sinister/zerk hybrid and traited into curses/blood/spite. been having a lot of success with it.

…5s ICD on chilling darkness right…WTF! my plauge psn/blind/chill spam just went to the pooper.

ok so sounds like necro’s are in a similar place to how they where before I stopped playing. Sounds like fun

Also Necro’s can stack a decent amount of conditions both in variation and bleed stacks, well at least I was able to back then.

Hey Guys, Long time no chat lol

Well I stopped playing Gw2 around March of 2014 due to Family issues.
Now that I might start to have some time to game again I wanted to see just how much has changed since then.

I used to run a Condition necro with an old 0/30/20/20 build with full Dire gear. ( I was very successful with it )

Is this still any good and are Necromancers in a similar state or better/worse than in march of 2014?

a t s e.9614:

Well spvp having better players its obvious though.

1. there is no gear/food advantage in pvp ( makes you work harder to beat someone and if you lose when you have gear advantage your just bad)
2. there is a match making system, you cant kill clueless noobs like in wvw (matchmaking = 4v5 all day in spvp)
3. In svp its 5v5, therefore personal skill matters much more than a zerg of 30v30 (zergs will be zergs, we all hate them. Solo/5 man roaming is where its at and guess what its not all about bunkering in a circle)
4. you can actually lose in spvp , in wvw you cant. Its impossible to know if some1 is good or not, there’s no leaderboards for wvw . ( myself/5man spikes you/your 5man we win. PPT is for the zergs to worry about)
5. wvw players are 3 metas behind. I still see some bull charge frenzy warriors running around in wvw (I still see some bull charge frenzy warriors in spvp whats your point?)

Im not saying wvw players are bad though. I watched every single video from Yishis. This guy is extremly good.

each one of your points is just off by a bit which I pointed out.

condi necro vs condi thief

condi necro should use all its condition xfers to overload the thief and force early disengage. (dagger 4, staff 4, plauge sig)
once the thief runs out of cd’s and is feared out of shadows refuge its gg.

Most lopsided 1v1 is Condi necro vs bad player with no condi removal (condi necro wins) OR condi necro vs good stun lock warrior with -% condi duration runes/food with decent condi removal ( warrior wins)

Sign me up, Might give me a reason to play again.

Dyno.9467:

Thats the first time a U.S guild has beat an EU guild in 2 yrs………Gz, have a street party

Im pretty sure that [EP] went to EU a few months back and also beat some (not all) EU guilds.

Bleeding: can only go up to a stack of 5 - might stacks can only stack to 5
Blind: remove completely - remove ageis
Burning: just fine
Chilled: remove completely - remove swiftness
Confusion: gets removed once the damage has been done - same can be said about retal
Crippled: remove completely - remove swiftness
Fear: once used the enemy gets a boon which means that fear cannot be placed on them for 10 seconds - remove stability
Immobilize: remove completely - remove vigor
Poison: remove the reducing heal potency by 33% part - remove regen
Torment: reduce the damage by 50% - fine
Vulnerability: just fine
Weakness: remove completely - remove fury.

if you want to remove conditions you need to also remove boons.

Rudy.6184:

Please just remove this broken food. Normally food gives like +170 stats, here it is like 2x hoelbark 6th bonus or 4 sigils. This food can give 40% extra dmg and longer cces, while best food gives 10% extra dmg. When I play in pvp I can deal with conditions, but here? With dire set I made build with 3k armor on mesmer and 24k hp.

im going to have to correct you.

40% extra duration does not equal 40% more damage.

lets take this build. http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fRAQJArImAAAkkJJaA-TlBZwAf2fw9DA4kegiq/ATJIAlfBAQAmZZGAm5Mn5Mn5MHFkGB-w

without food S2 does 7s of 3 stacks of bleed for a total of 3004, Yes 3004 damage in 7s (so OP)
with food S2 does 9 3/4s bleed (9s) for a total of 3962 damage.

so 40% damage increase to 3004 should equal 1201.6 more damage but in reality we only get 958 extra POSSIBLE damage.

Possible because that extra tick or 2 can be cleared so even then we are not even guaranteed that extra duration.

borrok.9267:

Brando.1374:

what people who complain about conditions look like
http://www.twitch.tv/xxkakarot/c/3439319

what someone who does something to counter conditions while remaining fairly tanky and deals decent damage looks like
http://www.twitch.tv/xxkakarot/c/4031535

this so called condition meta is just funny when you build to counter it while still being able to handle other situations.

You played dekaron?

Yes I did. I played a mage in dekaron.

what people who complain about conditions look like
http://www.twitch.tv/xxkakarot/c/3439319

what someone who does something to counter conditions while remaining fairly tanky and deals decent damage looks like
http://www.twitch.tv/xxkakarot/c/4031535

this so called condition meta is just funny when you build to counter it while still being able to handle other situations.

From past GvG experience in a 15v15 you need 3 necro’s (condi) or no condi builds period. 1-2 will not be able to pressure the condition removal of a group of 15 but 3 will be able to force unneeded condi removal/heals and allow the hammer train/ strike team to do work.

in a zerg its even worse for condition builds since your damage is just not there.

we should have matches ranging from 5-15
anything above 15 is just too much.

Zardul.3952:

there is no let down to conditions other than condi cleanse traits.

there is soo much down sides to power builds, condi is like running GOD mode.

why would you try to instantly kill someone who can do all of the above and just laugh at you and watch you run around like a headless chicken taking dmg from auto application stacks.

its laughable.

even Thiefs can apply condis .. stealth.. apply condis.. stealth.. its a joke how powerful condis are. you can even afk on them

ok ill bite.
here is a vid were I am running in "god mode"
http://www.twitch.tv/xxkakarot/c/3439319 (running 0/6/4/4/0)

here is a vid where my god mode met Ultraggomgwtfgodmode warrior who pretty much just laughed when I tried all I could but didnt even dent his hp.
http://www.twitch.tv/xxkakarot/c/4031535 (same 0/6/4/4/0)

difference between the 2?
one has -% duration food and possibly runes, knows how to clear conditions, and above all he isnt a bad player.

(sorry for those who have already seen these vids posted several times)

or remove the stack limit for pve.

BlackDevil.9268:

Terrahero.9358:

Ow look, its this again.

If Conditions are so “brokenly OP”, why does everyone consider Conditions worthless in PvE? Worthless in WvW zergs? And even roaming in WvW is dominated by power builds, not conditions.
And yes, even in sPvP as we clearly saw very recently in the ToL, Conditions builds are quite unpopular in higher tiers of skill.
Even tough people like you have been spouting their anti-condition dogma for months prior to the ToL, yet it clearly shows it that those who “learned to play” deal with conditions so well, hardly anyone bothers running it.

All you present here is anecdotal “evidence”, and a bunch of buzz words and self-declared facts that are actually not true at all. Basicly you sit here, wave a pretty screenshot in our face, feed us a bunch of lies and deceit, and expect everyone to keel over and join your “Lets Destroy Condition Builds”-movement.

Goodluck with that endeavor. Simple fact is, Power builds rule this game and have done so since the day of launch.

I would have to disagree with this.

If conditions weren’t so broken, then why does everyone in WvW run either -40% condi duration, often with melandru runes, or +40% condi food?
Condition builds are far more superior in 1v1’s and small fights. They are just often used because of lack of mobility. You want mobility as roamer, which usually goes along with power builds, though that does not mean condition aren’t as strong as power builds. Any condition spec of any roaming profession would win a 1v1 against the power version of its class.
In pve they are considered underpowered because monsters aren’t build around armor. Most are just 1 shot kill mobs with super low armor. Give them some propper armor like with the wurm and you’ll see groups forming with condition specs only.
There are more than enough condition specs such as with engineer, warrior and necromancer that dominate in soloq. At higher tier tournaments conditions are mostly a side-thing, but not to be left away. Look at warrior. Specs for power, about 1/4th of its damage comes from conditions. Burst is just a much better option for tpvp because you need to have good burst to cap kitten. Conditions are too slow to kill with so people run back to keep the point contested. Again, most of these builds have low mobility. You need good mobility to win the game.

It’s kittened conditions like burning, bleeding and torment are so popular in this game. Conditions should be a side-thing like weakness. Something you would apply for a short moment on the right timing. Not something you would spam all over to kill people while facetanking their damage.

actually they run -% duration food/runes for status affecting conditions (immo, cripple, chill) Also because they wont have to worry about active condi clear and go more offensive in their traits/utilites.

Solori.6025:

Sylli.3891:

Hammerguard.9834:

The problem with condi damage seeming so strong is the players. Either they’re running condi duration food and you’re not, you have extremely low vitality because you and everyone else thinks you only need toughness, or you aren’t running good condi cleanse. Then you come on the forums and cry about how condi is kittenting on you.

ye i am playing a guardian and i got full condition remove say hey to 4 spem condition ea sec i kittening remove that much ea sec. the problem it that guard dont get more the 20 k hp and its 1 of the lowest healing pool

If you are dying to conditions as a guardian you are doing something wrong.

I say this from a Zerker Guardians perspective.

You dont need to blow your condi cleanse on 2 stacks of bleeding, get runes of the hoelbrak, dont sit in red AoE’s, use blinds effectively.

sadly most people who complain about conditions like to faceroll and dont want to play smart.

Good advice but your going to be talking to deaf ears.

Power rules high level play
conditions make bad players look and feel bad.

Sagat.3285:

Brando.1374:

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/balance/The-Highest-Theoretical-Burst/first#post4093244

when classes can burst like this, condition damage is just laughable since we wont be given the time to let out conditions tick.

Unless I don’t see you coming there is no way I will die quick. A lot of people run glass canon it does not end well for them there are many counters such as ranged burst,conditions,tanks,stealth,blind and so on…. Will you survive to execute your next move I don’t think so.

a good glass cannon will pick and choose when and who to engage. (makes sure you cant dodge/block/etc…)
a bad glass cannon will die because of the above items you mentioned.

would it be possible for you to make a similar thread but for "condition Burst"
just to keep all the conditions are better blah blah talk down.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/balance/The-Highest-Theoretical-Burst/first#post4093244

when classes can burst like this, condition damage is just laughable since we wont be given the time to let out conditions tick.

Burst rotation
Cloak_and_Dagger – Coefficient: 1.624, Might: 0, Vulnerability: 3, Crit: true
Mug – Coefficient: 1.09, Might: 0, Vulnerability: 0, Crit: false
Backstab – Coefficient: 2.405, Might: 0, Vulnerability: 0, Crit: true
Sigil_of_Hydromancy – Coefficient: 0.25, Might: 0, Vulnerability: 0, Crit: true

shouldn’t the rotation include a HS after the BS to take advantage of the 200 power from revealed training.

also the food used, would bowl of seaweed salad give better results with a flat 10% damage increase or is 100 power/ 70 ferocity better?

OS might already be used by another gvg.

Back on the main topic,

there are ways each class can deal with conditions, some do it better than others and are able to keep pressure on a condi class while some will have to run/reset and come back to finish off the fight. (I used to do this all the time when my main was a thief)

NinjaEd.3946:

@ Brando, All that video showed was how simple warriors are (speaking of the second video). Notice #2 warrior was able to cc spam you, he clearly knew how bad necro stun breakers are and used it to his advantage to wiggle you down. I don’t think you were playing glassy, so it took awhile but when you are a sitting duck there ain’t much to it. Warrior #1 was also GS hammer, you really going to use him as an example?

What I was showing with those 2 clips was how players can beat condi classes and we are not “OP” since we can be beaten (and beaten badly).
Yes I will use warrior #1 as an example of how some just refuse to adapt to the enemy they are facing them I assume they will come here and make more threads complaining about the “condi meta” or how they should nerf conditions because it does too much damage.

Cogbyrn.7283:

@Brando: I’d like to see those videos.

Vid 1 – http://www.twitch.tv/xxkakarot/c/3439319
He came up to me, I didnt go looking to fight him. as you can see he didnt even try to clear any conditions or bother to run -% duration food when you can clearly see I have +% duration food on. I pretty much facerolled him.

Vid 2 – http://www.twitch.tv/xxkakarot/c/4031535
I saw this guy having some 1vX fights and lost but lasted for a long time so I waited for him to come back out to give him a try.
My conditions did not last anywhere near their full duration and I was not able to get many stacks on him at one time. I dont think his hp went below 50%.
(before the you wasted skills on his shield block, I have unblockable marks and ds 2 is unblockable.)

NinjaEd.3946:

Brando.1374:

Kharr.5746:

The problem with conditions has, and will always be, the fact that they bypass toughness, protection, and weakness. It’s possible to do very high condition damage while having very high toughness thanks to rabid stats.

This means that power builds are useless against you since toughness reduces power damage significantly, plus you can usually put up protection and/or weakness to reduce power damage further while your condition damage rips through the enemy like butter. The only counter to condition builds are condition builds due to the high toughness/weakness/protection uptime. This is why almost everyone in s/tpvp is playing rabid-condi builds right now.

so what you are saying is that you want conditions to take the same damage reduction from weakness/toughness/protection correct?
if thats the case you will need to allow % damage modifiers (sigil of force/traits) to also increase condition damage.

I don’t agree with Kharr but the fact that we have a 5% direct damage sigil bonus kinda speaks for itself that power needs some bonuses to do anything worth mentioning. I mean look at some of the minor traits, 10% bonus damage for (insert threshold here), 5% there, 1% per (insert condition here) on you or target. You don’t see even 1% more condition damage anywhere in traits, because condi damage alone covers all that mess. The few traits that modify condition damage at all are GM traits and only affect 1 condition. There are traits that however affect condition duration which almost fills this role but not quite.

Either way, you know something is underwhelming when they have huge damage modifiers that are pretty much always active.

condition damage can be mitigated through -% condi duration and learning when to cleanse/soak conditions.

if needed I can post 2 clips of 2 different warriors I have faced. One has no idea what to do and sounds like most of the people who complain or want to nerf conditions. the other is build to withstand damage and deal a good amount while fending off conditions.

Kharr.5746:

The problem with conditions has, and will always be, the fact that they bypass toughness, protection, and weakness. It’s possible to do very high condition damage while having very high toughness thanks to rabid stats.

This means that power builds are useless against you since toughness reduces power damage significantly, plus you can usually put up protection and/or weakness to reduce power damage further while your condition damage rips through the enemy like butter. The only counter to condition builds are condition builds due to the high toughness/weakness/protection uptime. This is why almost everyone in s/tpvp is playing rabid-condi builds right now.

so what you are saying is that you want conditions to take the same damage reduction from weakness/toughness/protection correct?
if thats the case you will need to allow % damage modifiers (sigil of force/traits) to also increase condition damage.

now if you want to nerf conditions so much that the only builds you have are power than congratz you just lowered the build diversity.

Solo pve condition builds do fine and at times surpass power builds.
The issues begin when someone else joins the equation. Once you have a 2nd player you will hit the 25 condi cap and have duration conditions overwritten.
If you have 25 stacks of bleeds for 3k dps that’s 3k dps no matter how many condi users are attacking.

Power does not have this issue at all.

Conditions do have a viable counter’s its called -% condi duration and condi cleanse.

gennyt.3428:

Brando.1374:

-% duration food/runes and you wont have many issues.
congratz you countered the “meta”

I’m aware of those and feeling the need to run those takes a bite out of build diversity, which is what I hinted at in the original post.

so you want to nerf condition builds to further narrow down the total available builds each class can run?

-% duration food/runes and you wont have many issues.
congratz you countered the "meta"

spoj.9672:

Brando.1374:

spoj.9672:

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

spoj.9672:

Can be put into perspective quite easily with the necro. Necro lupi solo takes around 8 minutes with berserker. When using rabid it can easily go under 7 minutes. Which doesnt make sense because rabid is a hell of a lot less risky then berserker. Condi gear stats have way too much pressure for the lack of risk they have.

Umm, what? The first Rabid necro Lupicus solo took about 22 minutes. Even with more refined tactics (the tactics used were pretty refined just to accomplish it in the first place), that wouldn’t get cut by over half.

Current all time record for condi necro solo (before patch). Its possible to beat this, and I will be doing so once i have enough cm tokens for runes.
http://youtu.be/fryNu0KS8iQ
Time is 7 minutes and 28 seconds.

Current all time record for berserker necro solo (before patch). Will also be redoing this and it will be tough to get a similar time with nerfed crit damage.
http://youtu.be/Nk2NNMxp3t4
Time is 8 minutes and 34 seconds.

You cant rate first solos. The first mesmer and guard solos were like 30 minutes simply because of poor weapons/builds and ranging. The same goes for the first necro solo (he used a staff and 3 defensive utilities).

the only thing about your solo lupi argument is most of the time you run dungeons with a group.

if you had 5 condi necro’s on lupi you would still get around the same time due to 25 stack limit.
if you had 5 zerk necro’s on lupe you would get a much much better time because physical damage is not capped to stacks.

Yeah that wasnt my point though. My point was condi shouldnt be highest damage for no risk. Id be ok with it if the best condi set was pure glass, but it simply isnt.

your risk is having your conditions overwritten by other non condi classes (single target boss) or the boss dying before you can reach the full damage potential which takes at least 10-20s to build up and maintain.

for solo content conditions are great. aside from that its subpar due to stacks and overwriting conditions.

for pvp well timed condi clear and -% duration food/runes with take a dump on most condi players.

spoj.9672:

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

spoj.9672:

Can be put into perspective quite easily with the necro. Necro lupi solo takes around 8 minutes with berserker. When using rabid it can easily go under 7 minutes. Which doesnt make sense because rabid is a hell of a lot less risky then berserker. Condi gear stats have way too much pressure for the lack of risk they have.

Umm, what? The first Rabid necro Lupicus solo took about 22 minutes. Even with more refined tactics (the tactics used were pretty refined just to accomplish it in the first place), that wouldn’t get cut by over half.

Current all time record for condi necro solo (before patch). Its possible to beat this, and I will be doing so once i have enough cm tokens for runes.
http://youtu.be/fryNu0KS8iQ
Time is 7 minutes and 28 seconds.

Current all time record for berserker necro solo (before patch). Will also be redoing this and it will be tough to get a similar time with nerfed crit damage.
http://youtu.be/Nk2NNMxp3t4
Time is 8 minutes and 34 seconds.

You cant rate first solos. The first mesmer and guard solos were like 30 minutes simply because of poor weapons/builds and ranging. The same goes for the first necro solo (he used a staff and 3 defensive utilities).

the only thing about your solo lupi argument is most of the time you run dungeons with a group.

if you had 5 condi necro’s on lupi you would still get around the same time due to 25 stack limit.
if you had 5 zerk necro’s on lupe you would get a much much better time because physical damage is not capped to stacks.

Vissy.5861:

Conditions need a nerf.
Spvp is all about how fast you can apply/clense conditions now.

but in High level play ToL for example Conditions didnt really have much of an affect on the outcome of a match.

DeceiverX.8361:

Brando.1374:

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fZAQJAoYl8MpwpNOxzJ8PNRLRt9I0BvgXnh2VQAEiA-TlCBAB1s/Qlq/cmSQsU+BwBEIP9ApohghDEgenAgAeAABAQAuZbGADdoDdoDdodzbezbezbWKgBWGB-w

2791 power (no might)
3491 power with 20stacks of might

up to 65% damage modifiers when target is under 50%

if you want pure burst and gtfo then here you go.

You do realize that revealed training doesn’t affect stab, right?
And that strength runes are only decent if you’re taking hits, which is likely a really bad idea if you’re planning on GC signet burst, otherwise making scholars more useful for burst damage.
And that Flanking Strikes causes DPS losses versus Thrill of the Crime due to CnD crits from fury and the might. Thrill also lets you pop your signet of shadows while not losing mobility. You’re much better off with Residual venoms to get the stab more reliably since you’re not using mug to get the stun on steal for a reposition.

revealed training doesn’t affect stab, Correct – its used for HS right after
Scholar runes are better for burst in a pve setting where you wont get hit. in a pvp setting you will get under 10% hp so I pick strength to be on the safe side.
5% damage from behind vs fury and 1 stack of might meh ill take the 5% damage modifier